I want to publicly apologize to the group for what may have sounded as arrogance. I just came back from visiting the Pubs site and haven?t been there for a long time, excellent job Mr. Keefer. It seems I?ve stuck my flippers in my mouth. There are some very beautiful subs being built around the world and I am sorry I said any thing negitive about Mr.K. but I still think the Sail is very silly. DJB