Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scuttle valves & Divorce Court

[Steven Mills <cirtemoeg@juno.com>]

Thank you !

--Steve


On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:40:49 -0500 (EST) Jonathan Wallace <jon@psubs.org>
writes:
> My fellow psubbers, I am sorry for the following note, however I feel
> the following statement is necessary.  If you are only interested in
> submersible talk, please delete this note now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An OPEN letter to Pat Regan and Gail Paleka
> 
> >I don't understand what you mean by that.
> 
> Gail,
> 
> Suffice it to say it was a response based upon the numerous notes on 
> Regan's
> web site between you and he, bad mouthing PSUBS.ORG and the people 
> on this
> list.  In particular, your note to Regan stating "But I need an 
> outside
> opinion from an experienced submariner, and you fit that 
> description.  Will
> you help me, please?"  Hence, my question, "Have you cleared this 
> with Pat
> Regan?"
> 
> I gave you the benefit of the doubt the last couple of days, but no 
> longer.
> After visiting Regan's web site it is clear to me that your intent 
> is not to
> offer constructive criticism, but to bad mouth PSUBS.ORG for reasons 
> known
> only to you.  Regan's remarks on his web site regarding PSUBS.ORG 
> can be
> summed up in two words...ENVY and JEALOUSY.
> 
> Before Regan deletes things on his website, let's do a comparison so 
> it's
> locked in perpetuity on this website.  We'll leave it to readers to  
>      
> determine for themselves whether some of the criticisms you have 
> made are
> true.
> 
> 1) PSUBS.ORG was created to further the discussion of personal 
> submersibles.
> Vulcaniasubmarine.com was created to sell a book, entitled "How to 
> build
> a mini-submarine" or "How to build your own submarine" depending 
> upon where
> you look on the website.
> 
> 2) PSUBS.ORG values open discussion of designs and construction 
> techniques.
> On vulcaniasubmarine.com you can ONLY get advice from Pat Regan.  
> Refer
> to note "Sub Sketches Posted for Your Critique" and the response 
> from Pat
> Regan "The only guy who is authorized to post technical advice on 
> this
> message board is me."
> 
> Furthermore, on vulcanismsubmarine.com you are advised "If you 
> really
> want to open your design up to a free-for-all, you can take it to 
> other
> websites, but as Gail has pointed out, much of the information you 
> will
> receive there may be questionable. Be careful."
> 
> Gail's qualifications for classifying submersible information she 
> finds
> on the web as "good" or "bad" can be found under topic "Please 
> help!",
> where she describes herself as a 20 year old female student, with a
> part time job in a dive shop, and has helped "the guys at the shop 
> work
> on Scuba-Tows".  
> 
> 3) PSUBS.ORG offers technical discussion 24/7.  On 
> vulcaniasubmarine.com
> technical discussions occur when Pat Regan has time for them.  Refer 
> to
> note "Tech Talk suspended" which states "Starting March 01, 2004 and
> until further notice, I will no longer be answering technical 
> questions
> about homebuilt submarines."  You will recall that under item 2 
> above,
> ONLY Pat Regan can provide technical talk.
> 
> 4) PSUBS.ORG is an open forum where ideas are passed between 
> interested
> parties who want to develop a dialog.  Vulcaniasubmarine.com is not 
> an
> open forum as evidenced by the topic "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING 
> HERE"
> in which Regan states "This is not an open forum: it is a place 
> where I
> pass information on to others, and that's all it is."
> 
> 
> Regan to Paleka, taken from the vulcaniasubmarine website:
> "A fundamental aspect of discussion groups is that they are mostly 
> about
> socializing, and people go there to have a good time. Considering 
> your
> background, I think you went there looking for something PSUBS is 
> not."
> 
> Wallace response:
> A 100% technical only web site is BORING.  Humans are social by
> definition and have a desire to form friendships with others that 
> share
> the same interests.  Through those friendships, faithful bonds are
> created that lead to desimination of even more information.  
> PSUBS.ORG
> has more technical information on it today than vulcaniasubmarine 
> will
> have on it five years from now.  PSUBS.ORG is successful because of 
> the
> DIVERSE information it obtains from a DIVERSE group of people, some 
> who
> share and move on, others who share and stay long term.  Regardless 
> of
> the time they spend with us, they share and we benefit.
> Vulcaniasubmarine is a web site obsessed with a Disney movie.
> Seventy-five percent of the content is either about 20,000 leagues 
> under
> the sea or a link to a another web site about 20,000 leagues under 
> the
> sea.  Twenty percent of the web site are links to other submersible
> web sites.  Vulcania has seven, PSUBS.ORG has nearly 200!  The 
> remaining
> 5 percent of vulcaniasubmarine.com that is supposedly "content", 
> lacks
> any appreciable "content" at all.  This "technological" section of 
> the
> website includes what appear to be pictures from a 1970's rebreather
> "project" made from clorox bottles, and a pictorial history of 
> building
> a minisub based upon the Nautilus.  No details, no construction
> information, and no dive logs are provided.  Pictures of "test 
> trials"
> are provided, but no information on actual diving operations. 
> 
> To both Pat Regan and Gail Paleka:
> Your criticism upon the participants that frequent PSUBS.ORG are
> unjustified and unsubstantiated given even a cursory review of what 
> either
> of you have, or can, provide to those seeking solid, accountable 
> technical
> advice on how to build a personal submersible.  Your criticism is 
> based
> upon envy, jealousy, and a heavy egotistical attitude; not upon 
> superior
> knowledge or capability of those who contribute to PSUBS.  You'll 
> have to
> forgive me if I don't recognize the value of PSUBS being criticized 
> by a
> 20 year old dive shop employee who's primary experience with 
> submarines
> has been helping "the guys at the shop work on Scuba-Tows".  A 
> cursory
> look at the PSUBS picture gallery or the MOKI picture exchange shows 
> the
> level of experience that this young lady is attempting to lecture.
> 
> 


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