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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up



Ok maybe I won't use mercury but you sure are complicating my trim system

Brian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>; <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up


> 
> Thanks for the anwser Brian.  I think you understand, but it's worth
> saying, that we're not 'attacking' you over this, but if we didn't ask
> these questions and try to talk you out of it, I'd feel I wasn't being
> a good submadman.
> 
> I doubt you'll be able to sell the mercury for much once you're finished
> with it.  Mercury desolved a lot of things and reacts with alloys and plastics,
> once you've finished using the Mercury it will be very dirty from all the
> things it's managed to desolve.  You could well just endup with toxic
> sludge.
> 
> As for handling it, you've got to get it in and out of containers and
> into your sub.  Where a hazmat suit when you do this.  You'll need
> to do this some where that a spill can be contained properly (this
> isn't thing you're going to beable to do at your home or workshop,
> a lab would be best).
> 
> As for your liquid drop weight, will this prohibit you from using your
> sub near (with in 10 miles?) any areas where people would go in the water?
> (do you what effect Mercury has on childern?).  Also not using your
> sub near any areas of water that are used for fishing (where do you
> think the mercury in fish comes from? natural sources?).
> 
> If you ever have to pump out the mercury or abandon you sub, this
> will be a black mark against psubs (people well claim psubs are bad
> for the environment).
> 
> As for people, once you get some mercury in you, it stays there, every
> time you deal with mercury the levels in you build up.   There is no
> cure, there is no treatment, there is no going back. 
> 
> I think you should research it more before commiting to using mercury.
> I can't see how the benifits of using Mercury out way the hassle of
> handling it and the toxic mess you've got deal with.
> 
> This is some really dangours shit, not just to you, but me, my childern,
> my childern's childern, to my cat, those dolfins I saw last week....
> 
> Sorry for ranting.
>   Ian.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Cox <ojaibees@ojai.net>
> Sent: Feb 18, 2004 8:48 AM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
> 
> Answers below
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
> 
> 
> > 
> > You don't need to drink it to have problems.  Just inhale air near
> > some.... or let it touch your skin... or improperly handle a container
> > that had some in it....
> > 
> > 
> > Do you know how to handle Mercury?
>                                           ---------       You Don't handle it 
> > 
> > Do you what it desolves and reacts with (metals and plastics)?
>           ------------- No I don't , but I'll find out
> > 
> > How are you going to pump it without burning out the pump?
>          ------------- A piston displacment pump?
> > 
> > Do you intend to pump the Mercury overboard as a drop weight?
>           -------------Yes,  If my life depends on it.
> > 
> > How do prevent any from entering the human occuplied space?
>                  -----------  It will be outside the prressure hull
> > 
> > Have you seen people who have been exposed to too much Mercury? 
>                 ----------  No
> > 
> > Do you know how much damage a pound of mercury can do to
> >  an eco-system?
>                         --------- No,  but it occurrs naturally in many places,  a friend of mine has found it in creaveses underwater near Anacapa Island.
> > 
> > How will you know if you have a Mercury leak?
>                  ----------  Good Question
> > 
> > What's your plan if you have a Mercury leak?
>                     ----------- Better question
> > 
> > When servicing your sub over it's life time, how many times
> >  will you have to deal with Mercury?
>                        ---------- I can't answer that at this time
>                  
> > 
> > How will you dispose of the Mercury when you retire your sub?
> >                          ------------Sell it 
> > 
> > I've left off a few questions here because they are more dramatic
> > than anything else.  But I would like to hear what solutions you
> > are going to use for the technical and logistical questions above.
> > 
> > Ian.
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian Cox <ojaibees@ojai.net>
> > Sent: Feb 17, 2004 11:34 PM
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
> > 
> > I don't intended on drinking it, and it will be in a closed loop and
> > sealed.  The fact that it is liquid makes it ideal for pumping from
> > point A to point B.
> > 
> > Brian
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: atozed@juno.com
> >   To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >   Cc: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >   Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 6:30 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
> > 
> > 
> >   The good news is that is weighs 246 pounds a quart. The bad is it's
> > toxic waste, and evaporates easily. It has gone from being expensive to
> > being a liability. My advice is stick with lead, slide it if you need
> > to.
> >   -Peter
> > 
> >   On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:03:20 -0800 "Brian Cox" <ojaibees@ojai.net>
> > writes:
> >     Does anybody know where I can get some mercury ?
> > 
> >     Brian Cox
> >       ----- Original Message ----- 
> >       From: Bob Duncan
> >       To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >       Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:04 PM
> >       Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow
> > up
> > 
> > 
> >       I can cast lead.
> > 
> >          Bob
> > 
> >       "Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >         Carl,
> >         Sand or gravel is to light for ballast in a sub. It's mass is so
> > much more
> >         then lead for the same weight that it's impractical in a compact
> > sub. A
> >         load of gravel in a pickup truck pretty much fills the box. If
> > it were
> >         lead, it would be a sheet on the bottom of the floor.
> >         Remember it only the displacement over and above what the same
> > mass of water
> >         weighs that's effective as ballast.
> > 
> >         Dan H.
> >         ----- Original Message -----
> >         From: "Coalbunny"
> >         To:
> >         Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 5:49 AM
> >         Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue
> > follow up
> > 
> > 
> >         > Shawn, that is something that I have wondered about- will the
> > ballast
> >         > shift? I have read how a number of scientific units used lead
> > or steel
> >         > shot. Is there anything that prohibits that being used? IIRC!
> > at one
> >         > time even mercury was used. Of course we know the
> > environmental
> >         > implications from that. One thing I thought of using that
> > should be
> >         > cost effective and would be environmentally friendly is the
> > use of sand
> >         > or gravel. But since I have no real unit to use that ballast
> > method
> >         > with, I have no idea if it'll work.
> >         > Carl
> >         >
> >         >
> >         > NeophyteSG@aol.com wrote:
> >         > > In a message dated 2/16/04 5:47:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >         > > Asmyth@changepoint.com writes:
> >         > >
> >         > > Because Solo is intended as a "flying" sub, it's designed to
> > have a
> >         > > very small self-righting moment. [snip] If Solo had
> > conventional
> >         > > stability, she could never roll or fly inverted.
> >         > >
> >         > > Totally understand. My design is facing similar constraints
> > except that
> >         > > all my nonessentials are fared external to the pressure hull
> > which, Sgt.
> >         > > Pepper-ish, is much smalle! r than yours appears to be. In
> > my case, I'm
> >         > > juggling axiometric placement of everything in the
> > horizontal and
> >         > > vertical planes through the hull's longitudinal axis,
> > leaving the drop
> >         > > weight(s) placement until near the end to essentially force
> > the righting
> >         > > moment equations to balance. I also liked the idea of
> > essentially being
> >         > > able to use just about everything except the pressure hull
> > as a drop
> >         > > weight should the absolute need arise.
> >         > >
> >         > > What gave me a worse headache was trying to figure out a
> > functional
> >         > > ballast system for a craft which will hypothetically have
> > six degrees of
> >         > > freedom, won't "slosh" around (changing the center of
> > buoyancy), and
> >         > > will work no matter what the orientation of the craft ...
> > including
> >         > > upside down.
> >         > >
> >         > > Given the batteries are snug against the hull "ceiling", I
> > can't
> >         > > reach the lu! gs to connect the cables unless they are
> > upside down.
> >         > > Plus, I don't want the lugs shorting out against the hull.
> > If they
> >         > > cannot go upside down, I'll probably have to lower
> > everything by
> >         > > about 3". Plus, all the cables will now be a few inches too
> > short.
> >         > >
> >         > > Aside from simply not having the room, you're making me glad
> > that I
> >         > > chose to mount all but the two emergency reserve batteries
> > outboard ...
> >         > > not meaning to take pleasure from your pain. :)
> >         > >
> >         > >
> >         > > In a message dated 2/16/04 7:00:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >         > > Asmyth@changepoint.com writes:
> >         > >
> >         > > The Lifelines can be used in any position, but only charged
> > upright.
> >         > > The Optimas can be used or charged in any position at all.
> >         > > Unfortunately, I can't do a straight replacement because
> > Optima
> >         > > doesn't make a battery as large as the ones I'm using. So it
> > looks
> >         > > like I need to modify my hardware and calculations to turn
> > them
> >         > > right side up
> >         > >
> >         > > FWIW, possible KISS solution: Incorporate a pivot and latch
> > into the
> >         > > mounting hardware whereby you can drop them down into an
> > upright
> >         > > position for charging -- when you won't be occupying that
> > space -- then
> >         > > latch them back upside down and against the hull during
> > dives. If the
> >         > > current cabling reaches the lugs in their upside down
> > position, you
> >         > > won't even have to lengthen them because they'll just need
> > to rotate
> >         > > 180-degrees. Make sense?
> >         > >
> >         > > Warm Regards
> >         > > Shawn
> >         > >
> >         > >
> >         > > *****
> >         > >
> >         > > "Call nothing thy own except thy soul.
> >         > > Love not what thou art, but only what thou may become.
> >         > > Do not pursue pleasure, for thou may have the misfortune to
> > overtake
> >         it...
> >         > >! ; Live in the vision of that one for whom great deeds are
> > done ..."
> >         > >
> >         > > Man of LaMancha, D. Wasserman
> >         >
> >         > --
> >         > Spotted Owl...it's what's for dinner.
> >         >
> >         >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       Fact is stranger than fiction. Truth is stronger than fact. R.
> > Duncan
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
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> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>