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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
Thanks for the anwser Brian. I think you understand, but it's worth
saying, that we're not 'attacking' you over this, but if we didn't ask
these questions and try to talk you out of it, I'd feel I wasn't being
a good submadman.
I doubt you'll be able to sell the mercury for much once you're finished
with it. Mercury desolved a lot of things and reacts with alloys and plastics,
once you've finished using the Mercury it will be very dirty from all the
things it's managed to desolve. You could well just endup with toxic
sludge.
As for handling it, you've got to get it in and out of containers and
into your sub. Where a hazmat suit when you do this. You'll need
to do this some where that a spill can be contained properly (this
isn't thing you're going to beable to do at your home or workshop,
a lab would be best).
As for your liquid drop weight, will this prohibit you from using your
sub near (with in 10 miles?) any areas where people would go in the water?
(do you what effect Mercury has on childern?). Also not using your
sub near any areas of water that are used for fishing (where do you
think the mercury in fish comes from? natural sources?).
If you ever have to pump out the mercury or abandon you sub, this
will be a black mark against psubs (people well claim psubs are bad
for the environment).
As for people, once you get some mercury in you, it stays there, every
time you deal with mercury the levels in you build up. There is no
cure, there is no treatment, there is no going back.
I think you should research it more before commiting to using mercury.
I can't see how the benifits of using Mercury out way the hassle of
handling it and the toxic mess you've got deal with.
This is some really dangours shit, not just to you, but me, my childern,
my childern's childern, to my cat, those dolfins I saw last week....
Sorry for ranting.
Ian.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Cox <ojaibees@ojai.net>
Sent: Feb 18, 2004 8:48 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
Answers below
----- Original Message -----
From: "irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
>
> You don't need to drink it to have problems. Just inhale air near
> some.... or let it touch your skin... or improperly handle a container
> that had some in it....
>
>
> Do you know how to handle Mercury?
--------- You Don't handle it
>
> Do you what it desolves and reacts with (metals and plastics)?
------------- No I don't , but I'll find out
>
> How are you going to pump it without burning out the pump?
------------- A piston displacment pump?
>
> Do you intend to pump the Mercury overboard as a drop weight?
-------------Yes, If my life depends on it.
>
> How do prevent any from entering the human occuplied space?
----------- It will be outside the prressure hull
>
> Have you seen people who have been exposed to too much Mercury?
---------- No
>
> Do you know how much damage a pound of mercury can do to
> an eco-system?
--------- No, but it occurrs naturally in many places, a friend of mine has found it in creaveses underwater near Anacapa Island.
>
> How will you know if you have a Mercury leak?
---------- Good Question
>
> What's your plan if you have a Mercury leak?
----------- Better question
>
> When servicing your sub over it's life time, how many times
> will you have to deal with Mercury?
---------- I can't answer that at this time
>
> How will you dispose of the Mercury when you retire your sub?
> ------------Sell it
>
> I've left off a few questions here because they are more dramatic
> than anything else. But I would like to hear what solutions you
> are going to use for the technical and logistical questions above.
>
> Ian.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Cox <ojaibees@ojai.net>
> Sent: Feb 17, 2004 11:34 PM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
>
> I don't intended on drinking it, and it will be in a closed loop and
> sealed. The fact that it is liquid makes it ideal for pumping from
> point A to point B.
>
> Brian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: atozed@juno.com
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Cc: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow up
>
>
> The good news is that is weighs 246 pounds a quart. The bad is it's
> toxic waste, and evaporates easily. It has gone from being expensive to
> being a liability. My advice is stick with lead, slide it if you need
> to.
> -Peter
>
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:03:20 -0800 "Brian Cox" <ojaibees@ojai.net>
> writes:
> Does anybody know where I can get some mercury ?
>
> Brian Cox
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Duncan
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue follow
> up
>
>
> I can cast lead.
>
> Bob
>
> "Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
> Carl,
> Sand or gravel is to light for ballast in a sub. It's mass is so
> much more
> then lead for the same weight that it's impractical in a compact
> sub. A
> load of gravel in a pickup truck pretty much fills the box. If
> it were
> lead, it would be a sheet on the bottom of the floor.
> Remember it only the displacement over and above what the same
> mass of water
> weighs that's effective as ballast.
>
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Coalbunny"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 5:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] battery acid? & battery issue
> follow up
>
>
> > Shawn, that is something that I have wondered about- will the
> ballast
> > shift? I have read how a number of scientific units used lead
> or steel
> > shot. Is there anything that prohibits that being used? IIRC!
> at one
> > time even mercury was used. Of course we know the
> environmental
> > implications from that. One thing I thought of using that
> should be
> > cost effective and would be environmentally friendly is the
> use of sand
> > or gravel. But since I have no real unit to use that ballast
> method
> > with, I have no idea if it'll work.
> > Carl
> >
> >
> > NeophyteSG@aol.com wrote:
> > > In a message dated 2/16/04 5:47:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > Asmyth@changepoint.com writes:
> > >
> > > Because Solo is intended as a "flying" sub, it's designed to
> have a
> > > very small self-righting moment. [snip] If Solo had
> conventional
> > > stability, she could never roll or fly inverted.
> > >
> > > Totally understand. My design is facing similar constraints
> except that
> > > all my nonessentials are fared external to the pressure hull
> which, Sgt.
> > > Pepper-ish, is much smalle! r than yours appears to be. In
> my case, I'm
> > > juggling axiometric placement of everything in the
> horizontal and
> > > vertical planes through the hull's longitudinal axis,
> leaving the drop
> > > weight(s) placement until near the end to essentially force
> the righting
> > > moment equations to balance. I also liked the idea of
> essentially being
> > > able to use just about everything except the pressure hull
> as a drop
> > > weight should the absolute need arise.
> > >
> > > What gave me a worse headache was trying to figure out a
> functional
> > > ballast system for a craft which will hypothetically have
> six degrees of
> > > freedom, won't "slosh" around (changing the center of
> buoyancy), and
> > > will work no matter what the orientation of the craft ...
> including
> > > upside down.
> > >
> > > Given the batteries are snug against the hull "ceiling", I
> can't
> > > reach the lu! gs to connect the cables unless they are
> upside down.
> > > Plus, I don't want the lugs shorting out against the hull.
> If they
> > > cannot go upside down, I'll probably have to lower
> everything by
> > > about 3". Plus, all the cables will now be a few inches too
> short.
> > >
> > > Aside from simply not having the room, you're making me glad
> that I
> > > chose to mount all but the two emergency reserve batteries
> outboard ...
> > > not meaning to take pleasure from your pain. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 2/16/04 7:00:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > Asmyth@changepoint.com writes:
> > >
> > > The Lifelines can be used in any position, but only charged
> upright.
> > > The Optimas can be used or charged in any position at all.
> > > Unfortunately, I can't do a straight replacement because
> Optima
> > > doesn't make a battery as large as the ones I'm using. So it
> looks
> > > like I need to modify my hardware and calculations to turn
> them
> > > right side up
> > >
> > > FWIW, possible KISS solution: Incorporate a pivot and latch
> into the
> > > mounting hardware whereby you can drop them down into an
> upright
> > > position for charging -- when you won't be occupying that
> space -- then
> > > latch them back upside down and against the hull during
> dives. If the
> > > current cabling reaches the lugs in their upside down
> position, you
> > > won't even have to lengthen them because they'll just need
> to rotate
> > > 180-degrees. Make sense?
> > >
> > > Warm Regards
> > > Shawn
> > >
> > >
> > > *****
> > >
> > > "Call nothing thy own except thy soul.
> > > Love not what thou art, but only what thou may become.
> > > Do not pursue pleasure, for thou may have the misfortune to
> overtake
> it...
> > >! ; Live in the vision of that one for whom great deeds are
> done ..."
> > >
> > > Man of LaMancha, D. Wasserman
> >
> > --
> > Spotted Owl...it's what's for dinner.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Fact is stranger than fiction. Truth is stronger than fact. R.
> Duncan
>
>
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