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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Welder with Vision

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Welder with Vision
From: robertbatta@comcast.net
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:45:32 +0000
Alec,

Exactly what I was looking for - thank you for your insight. 

Rob
 
> Rob,
> 
> When you think of basic shapes applied to pressure vessels, what you
> might call a "desirability rating" in best-to-worst sequence is as
> follows:
> 
> 1) Sphere
> 2) Cylinder
> 3) Cone
> 4) Flat surface
> 
> That is, a sphere is more efficient than a cylinder, etc. Things like
> elliptical cylinders or elliptical endcaps would fall somewhere in
> between. Of course you see all sorts of flat surfaces or odd shapes on
> submarines from the outside, but I'm talking of the pressure hull
> proper, on 1 ATM boats.
> 
> So I have two suggestions:
> 
> For the endcaps, the ideal would be hemispheres instead of "flatter"
> cones. However if you find hemispheres of the desired measurements to be
> non-standard and thus expensive (this happened to me), then try for
> elliptical endcaps, which are still a better approximation to a
> hemisphere than a cone is.
> 
> Second, you might consider two vertical cylinders for the coning tower
> instead of a half pipe. The reason spheres and cylinders are efficient
> at resisting pressure is because the forces created on the surfaces are
> evenly distributed. There must be a more elegant way to put it, but if
> you think of a sphere, the force on any point has an identical opposing
> force on the opposite side. This is true of a cylinder too, but it is
> NOT true of a half pipe. Plus, with the half pipe you have the challenge
> of closing the ends, and especially of providing a hatch seat, in what
> would be a curved surface. That is if you're planning a hatch on top of
> the coning tower.
> 
> Hope that helps, and I apologize in advance if I've stated things that
> might be too obvious.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robertbatta@comcast.net [mailto:robertbatta@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 4:45 PM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Welder with Vision
> 
> Thijs,
> 
> That is the design I had in mind.  My last sub was a single occupant in
> the prone position, I am looking to "upgrade".
> 
> I realize the design is complex, Im hoping to get feed back from you all
> on this.  To answer your question, yes, this is the design I had in
> mind, two occupants, one in front of the other. 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rob
> 
> > Rob,
> > 
> > What you discribe makes me think of a Perry Cubmarine (If you don't
> know
> > what that looks like have a Google image search for "PERRY
> CUBMARINE".) A
> > design like that gives you the opportunity to have 2 people sitting
> upright
> > in a small sub. I fear that it is complicated to design (stresses!)
> and
> > build. Is this the concept you have in mind?
> > 
> > Geatings,
> > Thijs Struijs
> > The Netherlands
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <robertbatta@comcast.net>
> > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Cc: "Carsten Standfuss" <MerlinSub@t-online.de>;
> > <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 8:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Welder with Vision
> > 
> > 
> > > Not as of yet, I will send them when complete, I may even hand draw
> > something to get my questions answered.  I am in the process of moving
> from
> > one home to another, once settled in, I plan on building a cardboard
> mock up
> > to nail down the measurements.  The pressure hull is nothing more than
> a
> > pipe with end caps (30 or 45 Degree Cones), the pilot and passenger
> are in
> > the sitting position, their upper bodies and head are in the conning
> tower.
> > >
> > > For the conning tower, I plan to cut in half a length of pipe
> (smaller
> > diameter), and mate it to the main pressure hull - am I making sense ?
> > >
> > > I plan on using pipe flanges for view ports - here's my question:
> With
> > the forward end cap on the conning tower ( that is cut in half or
> shaped to
> > match the surface of the pressure hull ) can I mate a pipe flange to
> that -
> > given all the angles ?  Am I asking for a fabrication nightmare ?
> > >
> > > Again, my little knowledge of metal works - The end cap is already
> coned
> > and cut to match the pressure hull, is it feasible to cut a hole in it
> to
> > accept the pipe flange for a forward view port ?
> > >
> > > Please keep in mind, this is conceptual, I appreciate constructive
> > criticism.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is a DWG or DXF file available ?
> > > > Or a scan of the drawing as JPG ?
> > > > What kind of questions about the welds ?
> > > >
> > > > regards Carsten (Naval Architect)
> > > >
> > > > irox schrieb:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Rob,
> > > > >
> > > > > unforunately I can't recommend anybody to review your design,
> but I do
> > > > > hold some of your concerns.   Mainly - will people think we are
> nuts
> > when
> > > > > we ask professionals to review our designs?
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anybody had/hired a professional engineer (in the
> appropriate
> > field) to
> > > > > review your submarine designs?  Was it hard finding somebody
> willing
> > to review
> > > > > them?  What where the reactions you where getting from people?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also how much did it cost to have the design reviewed
> professionally?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >   Ian.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: robertbatta@comcast.net
> > > > > Sent: Dec 29, 2003 2:09 PM
> > > > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Welder with Vision
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope everyones holidays are going well.  Here is my question, I
> am
> > nearing the
> > > > end of hull design for my 1ATM two man sub.  The next steps are to
> > consult a
> > > > welder to iron out the details.  Do to my lack of knowledge in
> steel
> > > > fabrication, I would like a welder - the one doing the work - to
> look at
> > my
> > > > drafting and make modification suggestions if necessary.  For all
> I
> > know, I
> > > > could be asking for some angel that would require tremendous
> fabrication
> > effort,
> > > > and could be done another way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know a welder in New Jersey or PA that wouldnt think
> I am
> > out of
> > > > my mind for building a sub ? ? ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ================================================================
> > > Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet
> gecontroleerd
> > op virussen.
> > > Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele
> lijst
> > waar op wordt gecontroleerd.
> >
Follow-Ups:
- RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Welder with Vision
  - From: Dewey Mason <drmason2001@yahoo.com>
- [PSUBS-MAILIST] Last Update for 2003
  - From: MerlinSub@t-online.de (Carsten Standfuss)
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