Re: Prone position.. was Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Carsten: Sgt. Pepper

["Emile" <2stroke@hetnet.nl>]

For the "head first"interested.

There is already a lot of work done in the aircraft scene. Carsten already
mentioned hanggliders.
This site may contain some info for you. Some aircraft (Horten) were
comfortable.
http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/n_o_d/weird_index.htm
Flying wings are another interest of me.

Groet, Emile van Essen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alec Smyth" <Asmyth@changepoint.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Prone position.. was Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Carsten: Sgt. Pepper


> Hi Shawn,
>
> We're taking a very similar tack... my internal hull diameter is 30" and
> a fraction, and I'm using a sloped pad just as you describe. You can
> lock yourself in place with elbows and knees, and if that's insufficient
> I'm thinking of a Velcro band from the pad around my back. I didn't go
> with the hang glider idea because it seemed cumbersome in the very
> limited space available, plus I don't think it would work inverted.
>
> I haven't yet gone diving as the sub is under construction, but the pad
> is already built and I've tried it out in the garage... despite much
> tinkering with the angle, etc. it's still pretty darned uncomfortable.
>
> I also note the evolutions of Graham Hawkes' designs: Deep flight I has
> a "purist" prone position. DF II (not built) is an "angled up prone".
> And his latest design, Aviator, uses a conventional seated position.
> That tells me a lot, but unfortunately I'd already started when Aviator
> showed up.
>
> I think there is a parallel to the rider's position on a sportbike I
> used to own; dictated purely by aerodynamic considerations.
> Uncomfortable as hell, yet the ride might be exciting enough to make you
> forget it. After a two hour ride I could hardly walk, but that doesn't
> mean it wasn't worth it!
>
> If I were building a sub for moderate or low visibility water (think
> Carsten) a "flyer" would not be a viable option, so I'd never even
> consider a prone position.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alec
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carsten Standfuss [mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:32 AM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Prone position.. was Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Carsten: Sgt. Pepper
>
> What was it about the prone position that was uncomfortable?  My current
> design is prone and about the same length, but with a 700mm-750mm
> (~28"-30") diameter, a
> hanging harness (think hanggliders), and a sloped chest-hip pad with
> chin-rest that keeps most of the weight off the elbows and neck.
>
> Warm Regards
> Shawn
>
> Shawn the answer is simple - build a 1:1 scale mockeup from unexpensive
> material - in your wifes kittchen maybe. Than go in and test it so long
> you want - if you build a sub according to class standards - a single
> seater = 72 hours..
>
> If you find it after 3-4 hours still comfortable - maybe okay.
> In Sgt.Peppers about 2 hours is the border. (540 m diameter) If you want
> to sit for some minutes in the sub - you need about a diamter of at
> least 900 mm ..
>
> On problem on Sgt.Peppers is that you can not reach the technic near
> your legs and feets with the hands.. so all technic which need control
> or maintance during the dive has to be in the area of your hands.. -
> thats the area were also your shoulders are..
>
> hmm.. build a plywood, paper something mockeup and test it for hours..
>
> I build a 1:1 mockeup of Sgt.Peppers and test it before I build the real
> thing - but I test it only for minutes - 5 Minutes there - 10 minutes
> this. That was wrong. Test it at leat so long as you wish to dive - and
> than add 100 % - if you fell comfortable - okay build it..
>
> regards Carsten
>
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