Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete submarine - i did it back in 1994 - worked perfectly

[diagroto@ibague.cetcol.net.co]

Hello Brian,

My sub has 5tons of emergency drop ballast on outside (as segmented keel)
And 2 big inside tanks (concrete) of 2 tons ballast water. For shifting weight 
and change boyancy.

Kindest Regards,
Wilfried

Mensaje citado por: Brian Cox <ojaibees@ojai.net>:

> Hi Wilfried,   Never heard answer to Carsten's question about how you
> accomplished your ballast systems , were they built into the sub when it
> was poured?
> 
> Brian Cox
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <diagroto@ibague.cetcol.net.co>
> To: <Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 11:54 AM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete submarine - i did it back in 1994 -
> worked perfectly
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am Wilfried Ellmer and i recently did a search engine search on my
> name and 
> > found it connected to a discussion on this board about concrete
> submarine 
> > hulls.
> > This explains why i answer now to a discussion that took place here
> some 3 
> > years ago.
> > 
> > One of the questions asked was "did everyone a hull or sub like this"
> .
> > 
> > Yes i did one (in 1994) it was: 9 m long 2.5 meter diameter 18cm wall
> 
> > thickness, form of a blimp 15 tons wihtout ballast 20tons with
> ballast.
> > 
> > I also did earlier a smaller hull of 2m long and 0.7 m diameter to
> test the 
> > concept.
> > 
> > Both hulls where converted in fully functioal subs and i personally
> had a lot 
> > of dives and fun in those two subs.
> > 
> > Fact that i am still writing proves the validity of concept.
> > 
> > Unfortunatly the concept was so new back in 1994 that i could not find
> anyone 
> > interested to discuss or make a projekt with me.
> > 
> > So let me answer from practikal point of view some questions that came
> up here:
> > 
> > Can you transport a hull like this?
> > 
> > Yes i transported the 9m hull on a truck from innsbruck where i built
> it to 
> > lake Atter where i dived with it (some 5 hours) did not break, not
> leak, no 
> > damage.
> > it was stapled on wood - no special transport thing - impacts that
> occur on a 
> > truck will not affect a hull like this.
> > 
> > Will it crack when you hammer on it ?
> > 
> > This hull had a 18 cm thick concrete walls curved in 3 dimensions -
> and 
> > reinforced by 5mm steel bar net all 5 cm - this is similar to a bunker
> wall, 
> > or to a bridge - if you hammer it will it break ? - of course not.
> > 
> > Will it stand hydrostatic pressure ?
> > 
> > Just think of hoover dam, or submarine tunnels, or oil drilling
> platforms, - 
> > is concrete standing hydrostatic pressure ? - of course for many
> decades 
> > without any notable change.
> > 
> > Do you need non steel reinforcement?
> > 
> > - no in a 5cm or more thickness concret wall steel bars are perfectly
> 
> > protected.
> > 
> > Will it stand changing load from waves ?
> > Is concret standing changing load on bridges - of course ! - and in by
> far 
> > more sever conditions. Or in buildings under erver changing wind
> pressure.
> > 
> > Is building the hull a tecnical problem ?
> > 
> > handling a 18cm thick ship hull is always a problem - just imagine
> welding 
> > steel plates of 18cm !!! - or forming them as a sphere or streamlined
> blimp.
> > (with 3 dimensional curves). I could do it in a backyard with
> concrete, 
> > (without having bubbles and having reinforcement where it belongs) - i
> doubt 
> > that i could weld or form 18cm steel plates or alu in a backyard.
> > This is a task that is only (if ever) handled in battleship
> construction.
> > What you can do with concrete is incredible strong thick walls on
> relative 
> > small subs - this has nothing to do with ferrocemnt as used in
> yachting (iron 
> > mashing and plastering on) - this is forming concrete in the way as it
> is used 
> > in tunnels or in radio towers with continous forming that makes a
> little part 
> > every day.
> > Had patented some of this stuff... 
> > 
> > Do you need a special covering - double hull etc:
> > 
> > No - just use what is proved in tunnel or dam building it will work
> excellent 
> > in hydrostatic pressure for decades as it does in dams and tunnels.
> > 
> > Do it only work for big subs ?
> > No - had done 2m sub with 5cm wall thickness and 9m sub with 18cm wall
> 
> > thickness both worked excellent.
> > 
> > How can you test concrete ?
> > 
> > How do they test dams or bridges or tunnels - x raying every cm? , by
> using 
> > paleontolgy equipment? (as a discussion suggests) ?
> > 
> > I had a practical approach deep test at 150m (was deepest site i could
> find in 
> > the lake) and considered it save therefore to dive with 50m.
> > 
> > If you get obvious material changes over time (rusting of steel
> reinforcement) 
> > visible (new) cracks etc...yust do pressure test again and keep it 1/3
> in 
> > normal use this should be save.
> > (by the way...did not get any rusting, or cracks during 15 years of
> use) - So 
> > is it done in dams, bridges, pressure vessels, concrete pressure hulls
> of 
> > nuclear plants etc. - periodic testing with overload - new testing if
> doubths 
> > about structural integrity come up at visual inspection.
> > 
> > No need to predict destruction depth exactly with complicated 
> > methodes...doesn't work anyhow - not even for navy steel hulls - as
> example of 
> > treasure accident shows.
> > 
> > A wall thickness of 18cm on a 9m boat gives you a calculated
> destruction depth 
> > far below 1000m (normal concrete without any special) you can keep it
> so far 
> > above that in normal dive operations that it will be save - no matter
> - if 
> > anything like bubbles or cracks gives you a little additional
> weakness.
> > All concrete on all dams, tunnels buildings, drill islands etc. have
> bubbles 
> > and cracks - do they collaps ? - of course not!
> > 
> > What is the real problem of constructing a sub or habitat with
> concrete ?
> > 
> > Shipyards are not familiar with this material, and those who are
> familiar with 
> > it (tunnel engineers) do not build ships or subs.
> > 
> > Are there unsolved problems?
> > 
> > All problems are solved for decades all is available but nobody
> applies it on 
> > subs.
> > I did it - it worked excellent - had a lot of fun - 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If anyone wants to discuss or suggest me a project...please go on.
> > 
> > Wilfried Ellmer
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>