Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete submarine - i did it back in 1994 - worked perfectly

[Warren Greenway <opensourcesub@yahoo.com>]

It has to be built outside of territorial waters or be
unanchored (translation: mobile, like a very large
submersible). Either way get's you cleanly out of 
trouble. Making it anchorable and mobile would
actually
be my preference.

Warren.

--- Brian Cox <ojaibees@ojai.net> wrote:
> Hi Warren,  Where would you build an underwater
> house?   Are you aware of any legal (read
> government) obstuctions to doing something like
> that?
> 
> Brian Cox
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Warren Greenway" <opensourcesub@yahoo.com>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete submarine - i
> did it back in 1994 - worked perfectly
> 
> 
> > I am curious about viewports and hatches in your
> hull.
> > I want to build an underwater "habit" (read
> house).
> > And
> > have looked into quite a few materials. The
> problem
> > with
> > concrete has been related to view-ports
> promarilly. I
> > haven't been able to find any information on that.
> If
> > you have any further information of this, or other
> > construction methods, you certainly have my
> attention.
> > 
> > Warren.
> > 
> > --- diagroto@ibague.cetcol.net.co wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I am Wilfried Ellmer and i recently did a search
> > > engine search on my name and 
> > > found it connected to a discussion on this board
> > > about concrete submarine 
> > > hulls.
> > > This explains why i answer now to a discussion
> that
> > > took place here some 3 
> > > years ago.
> > > 
> > > One of the questions asked was "did everyone a
> hull
> > > or sub like this" .
> > > 
> > > Yes i did one (in 1994) it was: 9 m long 2.5
> meter
> > > diameter 18cm wall 
> > > thickness, form of a blimp 15 tons wihtout
> ballast
> > > 20tons with ballast.
> > > 
> > > I also did earlier a smaller hull of 2m long and
> 0.7
> > > m diameter to test the 
> > > concept.
> > > 
> > > Both hulls where converted in fully functioal
> subs
> > > and i personally had a lot 
> > > of dives and fun in those two subs.
> > > 
> > > Fact that i am still writing proves the validity
> of
> > > concept.
> > > 
> > > Unfortunatly the concept was so new back in 1994
> > > that i could not find anyone 
> > > interested to discuss or make a projekt with me.
> > > 
> > > So let me answer from practikal point of view
> some
> > > questions that came up here:
> > > 
> > > Can you transport a hull like this?
> > > 
> > > Yes i transported the 9m hull on a truck from
> > > innsbruck where i built it to 
> > > lake Atter where i dived with it (some 5 hours)
> did
> > > not break, not leak, no 
> > > damage.
> > > it was stapled on wood - no special transport
> thing
> > > - impacts that occur on a 
> > > truck will not affect a hull like this.
> > > 
> > > Will it crack when you hammer on it ?
> > > 
> > > This hull had a 18 cm thick concrete walls
> curved in
> > > 3 dimensions - and 
> > > reinforced by 5mm steel bar net all 5 cm - this
> is
> > > similar to a bunker wall, 
> > > or to a bridge - if you hammer it will it break
> ? -
> > > of course not.
> > > 
> > > Will it stand hydrostatic pressure ?
> > > 
> > > Just think of hoover dam, or submarine tunnels,
> or
> > > oil drilling platforms, - 
> > > is concrete standing hydrostatic pressure ? - of
> > > course for many decades 
> > > without any notable change.
> > > 
> > > Do you need non steel reinforcement?
> > > 
> > > - no in a 5cm or more thickness concret wall
> steel
> > > bars are perfectly 
> > > protected.
> > > 
> > > Will it stand changing load from waves ?
> > > Is concret standing changing load on bridges -
> of
> > > course ! - and in by far 
> > > more sever conditions. Or in buildings under
> erver
> > > changing wind pressure.
> > > 
> > > Is building the hull a tecnical problem ?
> > > 
> > > handling a 18cm thick ship hull is always a
> problem
> > > - just imagine welding 
> > > steel plates of 18cm !!! - or forming them as a
> > > sphere or streamlined blimp.
> > > (with 3 dimensional curves). I could do it in a
> > > backyard with concrete, 
> > > (without having bubbles and having reinforcement
> > > where it belongs) - i doubt 
> > > that i could weld or form 18cm steel plates or
> alu
> > > in a backyard.
> > > This is a task that is only (if ever) handled in
> > > battleship construction.
> > > What you can do with concrete is incredible
> strong
> > > thick walls on relative 
> > > small subs - this has nothing to do with
> ferrocemnt
> > > as used in yachting (iron 
> > > mashing and plastering on) - this is forming
> > > concrete in the way as it is used 
> > > in tunnels or in radio towers with continous
> forming
> > > that makes a little part 
> > > every day.
> > > Had patented some of this stuff... 
> > > 
> > > Do you need a special covering - double hull
> etc:
> > > 
> > > No - just use what is proved in tunnel or dam
> > > building it will work excellent 
> > > in hydrostatic pressure for decades as it does
> in
> > > dams and tunnels.
> > > 
> > > Do it only work for big subs ?
> > > No - had done 2m sub with 5cm wall thickness and
> 9m
> > > sub with 18cm wall 
> > > thickness both worked excellent.
> > > 
> > > How can you test concrete ?
> > > 
> > > How do they test dams or bridges or tunnels - x
> > > raying every cm? , by using 
> > > paleontolgy equipment? (as a discussion
> suggests) ?
> > > 
> > > I had a practical approach deep test at 150m
> (was
> > > deepest site i could find in 
> > > the lake) and considered it save therefore to
> dive
> > > with 50m.
> > > 
> > > If you get obvious material changes over time
> > > (rusting of steel reinforcement) 
> > > visible (new) cracks etc...yust do pressure test
> > > again and keep it 1/3 in 
> > > normal use this should be save.
> > > (by the way...did not get any rusting, or cracks
> > > during 15 years of use) - So 
> > > is it done in dams, bridges, pressure vessels,
> > > concrete pressure hulls of 
> > > nuclear plants etc. - periodic testing with
> overload
> > > - new testing if doubths 
> > > about structural integrity come up at visual
> > > inspection.
> > > 
> 
=== message truncated ===


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