[Date Prev][Date Next]
[Chronological]
[Thread]
[Top]
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main ballast.
Hi Marco,
I don't know about best. But see http://www.psubs.org/faq.html#ballasttankdesign
for a solution.
Regards,
Ray
> User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509
> Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:16:36 +1200
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main ballast.
> From: Marco <marco@zeeman.co.nz>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>
> > To the Ballast experts...
> >
> > Does anyone have a good schematic available on this subject as that would
> > answer many questions for those of us wondering the best ballasting
solution,
> > ensuring controlled ascent.
> >
> > Im working on a dry ambient and am keen to know any new tricks or
> > techniques...
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> >
> > Marco
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yup, agreed.
> >
> > "Dan H." <JMachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >> Chris,
> >> I'm sure you could give it a pop of air and clear the lines if you have it
> >> plumbed in that way. The good thing is, if it's a problem, it won't
prevent
> >> you from surfacing, only submerging.
> >>
> >> Dan H.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Chris Nugent <mailto:dirkpitt77@yahoo.com>
> >>> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 7:52 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main ballast.
> >>>
> >>> Dan,
> >>>
> >>> Yep, I'm still with ya. I think I'll have to find a way to keep those
> >>> lines clear, because in my design it's more convenient to have most of my
> >>> piping and valves in the main hull as opposed to the conning tower. I
> >>> wonder if you could use compressed air to blow them out if you run into
> >>> that situation? Hmm...
> >>> Anyway...hey, thanks for the help. Very illuminating.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>> "Dan H." <JMachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >>>> Chris,
> >>>>
> >>>> Your right in what you say about the piping not having to all be above
the
> >>>> tank if it's full of air. But, if your piping is routed to a point below
> >>>> the top of your MBT and you get water in the pipe, which is sure to
happen
> >>>> when filly blowing the tank, the water held in the pipe will be heavier
> >>>> then the air that is trying to be forced out.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not doing a good job with this explanation! Sorry
> >>>>
> >>>> Think of what happens if you siphon with a hose. If part of the hose has
> >>>> air in it you can't get the siphon going. In this case, if the lower
part
> >>>> of the piping has water in it, it till take more pressure in the MBT to
> >>>> blow the low lying water out and allow the air to pass through. Since
the
> >>>> only pressure is the head of water, it can't lift a trapped column of
water
> >>>> higher then it self.
> >>>>
> >>>> Agree?????
> >>>>
> >>>> Hope I made enough sense for you to follow my thinking.
> >>>> Dan H.
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: Chris Nugent <mailto:dirkpitt77@yahoo.com>
> >>>>> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 8:40 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main ballast.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "The vents for the fore and aft soft MBT have to be mounted at the
top
> >>>>> of the tanks in order to release the air above the water. Since the
MBT's
> >>>>> top is the same height as the top of the hull, the piping and valves had
> >>>>> to be located at the height of the conning tower. "
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ok, so if the sub is sitting on the water on the surface, the air
in
> >>>>> the MBT's should be under some pressure since the weight of the sub is
> >>>>> forcing it down, and thus forcing water into the bottom of the MBT's,
and
> >>>>> thereby displacing the air in them and compressing it until it achieves
> >>>>> equilibrium and the sub floats, right? I understand why the valve has
to
> >>>>> be at the top of the MBT, but your piping doesn't have to be at the same
> >>>>> level as the valve, right? If I reckon right, the somewhat pressurized
> >>>>> air in the MBT's, once the valve is opened, should rush right out no
> >>>>> matter where your piping is, as long as the MBT is able to flood
> >>>>> completely, right?
> >>>>> At the depths I'm aiming for (ummm....50 feet?) I hadn't thought
> >>>>> that my valve configuration would pose a problem as far as withstanding
> >>>>> the pressures involved. I may re-do it anyway though.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chris
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Dan H." <JMachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> Chris,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> First I have to say, I didn't design it but from what I see in the over
> >>>>>> all design, and knowing the designer, I think the valving was done this
> >>>>>> way for safety and simplicity. All other valves except these vent
valves
> >>>>>> are located within the hull.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Since each of these vent valves run from an external tank to outside
the
> >>>>>> hull, each valve would have two through hulls for the piping. Better
> >>>>>> three, quarter turn through hulls, then six pipe through hulls, more
> >>>>>> fittings and a still three valve stem seals inside the hull.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The vents for the fore and aft soft MBT have to be mounted at the top
of
> >>>>>> the tanks in order to release the air above the water. Since the MBT's
> >>>>>> top is the same height as the top of the hull, the piping and valves
had
> >>>>>> to be located at the height of the conning tower. It would be
cluttered
> >>>>>> to have these valves and their piping inside the conning tower. On
both
> >>>>>> K subs, the MBT vent valves are taken apart and altered with long stems
> >>>>>> that screw right on to a special threaded replacement for the packing
nut
> >>>>>> that is welded in through the conning tower wall. It makes a clean
> >>>>>> package and has double O-ring seals for added safety. Even if the
valves
> >>>>>> get sheared off, the stems have shoulders that prevent then from
blowing
> >>>>>> through to the inside.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The less holes in the hull the better.
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: Chris Nugent <mailto:dirkpitt77@yahoo.com>
> >>>>>>> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:33 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main ballast.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hey Dan,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just wondering, what is the reason for mounting the valves
external
> >>>>>>> to the hull on the K-350? Is it because it's easier to put the
> >>>>>>> actuating shafts in a thru-hull and run that through the hull to the
> >>>>>>> valve, rather than mount the valves inside the hull with the air lines
> >>>>>>> and air supply and run the air lines through the hull to the MBT's?
Or
> >>>>>>> something else I missed?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Chris Nugent
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Dan H." <JMachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
> Pierre,
>
> On the K-350 the "hard ballast tank" is located under the hull. There is a
> shaft that runs through the hull with a flex coupling on it that is directly
> above a quarter turn valve on the sea water opening of the hard ballast
> tank. A quarter turn of this threw hull shaft turns the ball valve
> directly.
>
> The "soft ballast tanks" are of fiberglass and are located fore and aft.
> They are opened to sea water all the time. The vent air is controlled with
> quarter turn ball valves located on the conning tower. The valves are also
> located external but are altered with special long stems so they are
> controlled from inside the conning tower. The valves are connected to the
> top of the tanks with tubing. The valves are mounted high in the tower and
> vent from the tops of the tanks.
>
> Hope this is what your looking for.
> Dan H.
> ----- Original Mess a! ! ! ! ge -----
> From: "pierre&marie"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 6:31 PM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main ballast.
>
>
> > Hi People!
> >
> > How do you "plug" the main ballast tank to adjust buyoncy (man, that word
> is
> > killing me...)
> >
> > I'm trying to figure a way to use a 5/3 pneumatic valve. It would be easy
> to
> > use to adjust bouyancy. But, I can't have the plumbing right at the
> moment.
> >
> >
> > Any advise? Somebody know how it's done in a K-350?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Pierre Poulin
> > "At last the sun is here!"
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>>>>> The New Yahoo! Search
> >>>>>>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/mailsig/*http://search.yahoo.com> -
> >>>>>>> Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>>> The New Yahoo! Search
> >>>>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/mailsig/*http://search.yahoo.com> -
> >>>>> Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> >>>
> >>> Do you Yahoo!?
> >>> The New Yahoo! Search
> >>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/mailsig/*http://search.yahoo.com> -
Faster.
> >>> Easier. Bingo.
> >
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > The New Yahoo! Search
> > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/mailsig/*http://search.yahoo.com> - Faster.
> > Easier. Bingo.
> >
>