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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main ballast.
Title: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main ballast.
Hi Marco!
You can find on the psubs site the schematic
for a ballast system. I'm building a dry-ambient too and I follow this schematic
for the soft ballast with the only exeption that the bottom of the tank will be
controlled by a valve. Why? I don't know! Just like to be in control of every
water/air movement in the sub.
Pierre Poulin
Canada
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 2:16
AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main
ballast.
To the Ballast experts...
Does anyone
have a good schematic available on this subject as that would answer many
questions for those of us wondering the best ballasting solution, ensuring
controlled ascent.
Im working on a dry ambient and am keen to know
any new tricks or techniques...
Kind
Regards
Marco
Yup,
agreed.
"Dan H." <JMachine@adelphia.net>
wrote:
Chris,
I'm sure you could
give it a pop of air and clear the lines if you have it plumbed in that
way. The good thing is, if it's a problem, it won't prevent you from
surfacing, only submerging.
Dan
H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nugent
<mailto:dirkpitt77@yahoo.com>
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003
7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main
ballast.
Dan,
Yep,
I'm still with ya. I think I'll have to find a way to keep those
lines clear, because in my design it's more convenient to have most of
my piping and valves in the main hull as opposed to the conning tower.
I wonder if you could use compressed air to blow them out if
you run into that situation?
Hmm...
Anyway...hey, thanks for the
help. Very illuminating.
Chris
"Dan H."
<JMachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
Chris,
Your right in what you say about the piping
not having to all be above the tank if it's full of air. But, if
your piping is routed to a point below the top of your MBT and you get
water in the pipe, which is sure to happen when filly blowing the
tank, the water held in the pipe will be heavier then the air that is
trying to be forced out.
I'm not doing a
good job with this explanation! Sorry
Think of what
happens if you siphon with a hose. If part of the hose has air
in it you can't get the siphon going. In this case, if the lower
part of the piping has water in it, it till take more pressure in the
MBT to blow the low lying water out and allow the air to pass through.
Since the only pressure is the head of water, it can't lift a
trapped column of water higher then it self.
Agree?????
Hope I made
enough sense for you to follow my thinking.
Dan
H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nugent
<mailto:dirkpitt77@yahoo.com>
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Thursday, May 22,
2003 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main
ballast.
"The vents for the fore and
aft soft MBT have to be mounted at the top of the tanks in order to
release the air above the water. Since the MBT's top is the
same height as the top of the hull, the piping and valves had to be
located at the height of the conning tower.
"
Ok, so if the
sub is sitting on the water on the surface, the air in the MBT's
should be under some pressure since the weight of the sub is forcing
it down, and thus forcing water into the bottom of the MBT's, and
thereby displacing the air in them and compressing it until it
achieves equilibrium and the sub floats, right? I understand
why the valve has to be at the top of the MBT, but your piping
doesn't have to be at the same level as the valve, right? If I
reckon right, the somewhat pressurized air in the MBT's, once the
valve is opened, should rush right out no matter where your piping
is, as long as the MBT is able to flood completely, right?
At the depths I'm aiming for
(ummm....50 feet?) I hadn't thought that my valve
configuration would pose a problem as far as withstanding the
pressures involved. I may re-do it anyway
though.
Chris
"Dan H."
<JMachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
Chris,
First I have
to say, I didn't design it but from what I see in the over all
design, and knowing the designer, I think the valving was done
this way for safety and simplicity. All other valves except
these vent valves are located within the
hull.
Since each of these vent valves run from
an external tank to outside the hull, each valve would have two
through hulls for the piping. Better three, quarter turn
through hulls, then six pipe through hulls, more fittings and a
still three valve stem seals inside the hull.
The vents for the fore and aft soft MBT
have to be mounted at the top of the tanks in order to release the
air above the water. Since the MBT's top is the same height
as the top of the hull, the piping and valves had to be located at
the height of the conning tower. It would be cluttered to
have these valves and their piping inside the conning tower.
On both K subs, the MBT vent valves are taken apart and
altered with long stems that screw right on to a special threaded
replacement for the packing nut that is welded in through the
conning tower wall. It makes a clean package and has double
O-ring seals for added safety. Even if the valves get
sheared off, the stems have shoulders that prevent then from
blowing through to the inside.
The less
holes in the hull the better.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nugent
<mailto:dirkpitt77@yahoo.com>
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, May
21, 2003 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main
ballast.
Hey
Dan,
Just wondering,
what is the reason for mounting the valves external to the hull
on the K-350? Is it because it's easier to put the
actuating shafts in a thru-hull and run that through the hull to
the valve, rather than mount the valves inside the hull with the
air lines and air supply and run the air lines through the hull
to the MBT's? Or something else I
missed?
Thanks,
Chris
Nugent
"Dan H."
<JMachine@adelphia.net>
wrote:
Pierre,
On the K-350 the "hard ballast tank" is located
under the hull. There is a
shaft that runs through the hull with a flex
coupling on it that is directly
above a quarter turn valve on the sea water
opening of the hard ballast
tank. A quarter turn of this threw hull shaft
turns the ball valve
directly.
The "soft ballast tanks" are of
fiberglass and are located fore and aft.
They are opened to sea water all
the time. The vent air is controlled with
quarter turn ball valves located
on the conning tower. The valves are also
located external but are altered
with special long stems so they are
controlled from inside the conning
tower. The valves are connected to the
top of the tanks with tubing. The
valves are mounted high in the tower and
vent from the tops of the
tanks.
Hope this is what your looking for.
Dan H.
----- Original
Mess a! ! ! ! ge -----
From: "pierre&marie"
To:
Sent:
Wednesday, May 21, 2003 6:31 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Main
ballast.
> Hi People!
>
> How do you "plug" the main
ballast tank to adjust buyoncy (man, that word
is
> killing
me...)
>
> I'm trying to figure a way to use a 5/3 pneumatic
valve. It would be easy
to
> use to adjust bouyancy. But, I can't
have the plumbing right at the
moment.
>
>
> Any advise?
Somebody know how it's done in a K-350?
>
>
Thanks!
>
> Pierre Poulin
> "At last the sun is
here!"
>
>
>
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