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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS spec sheet
Inside or outside and smooth with the hull - anyway
but the biggest issue is that it should be made
from stainless steel like the hatch seal and the dome seats.
And that is a cost issue..
Carsten
Warrend Greenway schrieb:
>
> What we would want is those flanges in the machined state
> before they are attached to anything, so we could weld them
> to the inside of the pressure hull. They really need to be
> on the inside, so it will be easier to assemble/disassemble,
> reduce drag, and prevent corrosion of the bolts.
>
> Warren.
>
> >
> > Exactly what I meant.!! If the hull is encased with ballast tank, to
> > streamline the shape (like German VII for example) then one could purchase
> > a pipe flange (bolts on the outside) rather than making one. An external
> > stiffener is just as valid as an internal one. But it would be more
> > difficult to take apart (due to the ballast tank in the way). Also more
> > difficult to inspect the bolts. However it would be far cheaper. I am
> > trying to find links. The inside bolts is far nicer, but impossible to
> > find commercialy (I think anyway) , due to the fact that people rarely want
> > to un-bolt pressure vessels from inside. In fact rare;y do they want to
> > climb inside one. LOL. Pipe Flanges would be far cheaper than making one.
> >
> > For the diameter debate, I vote in for 36" - 48" line pipe for pressure
> > hull. I want to be able to sit upright, but also able to pull with my
> > truck. Maybe the batteries would be a seperate load to keep the weight down
> > and add batteries at launch site. Safety drop weight as well??
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Jay.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > MerlinSub@t-online.de
> > (Carsten Standfuss) To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Sent by: cc:
> > owner-personal_submersible Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS spec sheet
> > s@psubs.org
> >
> >
> > 15/01/2003 11:25 AM
> > Please respond to
> > personal_submersibles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Warrend
> >
> > A cylinder with a diameter of 1 meter and with a length of 1 meter means
> > a displacement of 0,805 ts in saltwater..
> >
> > A diameter of 2 meter with a length of 1 meter means
> > a displacement of 3,22 ts in saltwater..
> > Each person needs about 1 meter length - so a double seater needs
> > 2 meters between the endcaps.. = 6,44 ts the overall sub will be
> > more in the area of 8-9 ts.. keep most homebuilders off..
> >
> > I think 0,9 - 1 meter diameter - or the weight will be a
> > problem for the most cars and even pickups.
> >
> > I put a picture of a bolted frame and a explain
> > how to make it to :
> >
> > http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/subfiles
> >
> > or direct:
> > http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20030115.120916/113-1333a.JPG
> > and here :
> > http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20030115.120916/113-1333a.desc
> >
> > Bolted midgets:
> > Seahorse, all X-crafts, Aluminaut, all japanese midget, Seehund,
> > some italian modern midget - technical no problem, just a price issue..
> >
> > regards Carsten
> >
> >
> > Warrend Greenway schrieb:
> > >
> > > The issue of beam seems to be causing a lot of concern. I want to
> > > be able to sit upright in the hull. I'm not interested in crouching
> > > or being balled-up in any way. Furthermore, 1.5-2.5 meters was the
> > > unanimous response. It would seem, however, that there are a lot of
> > > second thoughts on this. I am going to try laying out some stuff in
> > > my living room to get a better idea of scale. I think this is the
> > > first order of buisiness at this time. Please, all, make a mock up
> > > with sticks, cardboard, or whatever, and get a solid understanding of
> > > a realistic size. It is starting to sound like the 1.5 meters may have
> > > been closer to the target. Remember, though, that the modularity will
> > > allow the basic sub to be quite short, eliminating some cost/weight
> > > concerns.
> > >
> > > Warren.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Any special tools that we need should be factored in
> > > > to the overall cost. This would include the method of
> > > > transporting it to and from the dive site. If 'we' are
> > > > planning to build a submarine of the size people are talking
> > > > about then you will probably need either a crane or strong
> > > > forklift truck for lifting parts and section into place.
> > > >
> > > > Although, it might be more econimical to get a vehicle
> > > > such as a flat bed truck with a built on crane:
> > > >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6729&item=2400013033
> >
> > > >
> > > > The specs being kicked around sounds more like the size of
> > > > a 4 to 6+ person sub, with room to stand up. I've got
> > > > say I would love to have a sub like that, but I'm not
> > > > sure how relistic it is to solve all the logistical problems
> > > > for constructing such a vessel by a private individual.
> > > > In fact I think hardly any one would beable to finance
> > > > and construct such a vessel, more so since this is intended
> > > > as a 'first submarine'. 1 meter is a more realistic hull
> > > > diameter... your second sub could be 2 meters....
> > > >
> > > > Ian.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:08:05 +0800
> > > > "Warrend Greenway" <dub@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If this bolt together systems works out then Carsten's idea of
> > > > > uneven lengths becomes perfect. We would have around a 4 meter
> > > > > "main" section with the conning tower. Then you could either bolt
> > > > > on end-cap sections or extensions to the hull, either way you get
> > > > > exactly the length you want. It would be nice if towing behind an
> > > > > SUV wasn't a concern, but it is. I would get a Dodge and have
> > > > > 10,000lbs towing capacity, but that is not going to be a popular
> > > > > solution. "By a real truck for your PSUB!" Right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warren.
> > > > >
> > > > > > The wish list looks like it's coming along well. I like the
> > "Required "
> > > > > > list especially, but I think the size is getting a little large for
> > > > > > something that will actually get built?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe one of the first things that should be considered is, are we
> > looking
> > > > > > to design a sub that can be trailered behind a standard sized SUV
> > or pickup
> > > > > > truck, or one that requires more to move it. Establish the
> > displacement
> > > > > > constraints rather then the details.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Establishing a realistic budget may do well early on too. It's
> > probably the
> > > > > > main reason there aren't a flood of Psubs in the water already.
> > > > > > Keep in mind, every square center meter of volume adds to both cost
> > and
> > > > > > weight.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My hat is off to Carstan for the project he has taken on, but
> > reality is, I
> > > > > > know he's way out of my league.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan H.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Coalbunny" <coalbunny@vcn.com>
> > > > > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:40 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS spec sheet
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know what value this would be to the PSUB project, but
> > this is
> > > > > > > what I have so far-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Length: "Around" 10 meters
> > > > > > > 2. Beam: 2-2.5 meters
> > > > > > > 3. Speed: unknown
> > > > > > > 4. Depth: 50 meters
> > > > > > > 5. Duration: 24 hours
> > > > > > > 6. Cost: unknown
> > > > > > > 7. Capacity: 3-4 passengers
> > > > > > > 8. Other: Optional electronics package
> > > > > > > Life support system
> > > > > > > Optional bow view port
> > > > > > > Optional fiberglass fairings
> > > > > > > Required analog/mechanical gauges
> > > > > > > Required auxillary electrical
> > > > > > > Required steel pressure hull
> > > > > > > Required drop ballast
> > > > > > > Required "trimable" ballast
> > > > > > > Required PWM speed control(?)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not really certain what the specs would be for speed.
> > > > > > > Carl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > "You delight not in a city's seven or seventy wonders, but in an
> > answer
> > > > > > > it gives to a question of yours, or the question it asks you,
> > forcing
> > > > > > > you to answer, like Thebes through the mouth of the Sphinx." --
> > Kublai
> > > > > > > Khan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
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