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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DXF Files
>From: Adam Lawrence <adteleka@in-tch.com>
>
> Looks like you really know your stuff, Steve.
>
Thanks, but to me, I sound and feel like a blithering idiot
and obsolescense personified to have to exercise such
bravado. Something one faces almost everyday when
one gets older.
Well, excuse me, I'm going to climb into my replica
Bushnell's Turtle and crank 'n pedal into oblivion.... ;-)
the Ol' Curmudgeon --Steve
>
> Adam
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Mills" <barycenter@earthlink.net>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 7:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DXF Files
>
>
> > Just to let you know, so all of you do not think I'm coming
> > from left field or talking off the top of my head from being
> > too addled.
> >
> > This has been a design philosophy and practice that
> > I was taught and have been using for nearly 35 years.
> > I worked as a jr. civil engineer for the Mo. State Highway
> > Dept. and I helped design Interstate 70 between Topeka, KS
> > and St. Louis, Mo. ( it was my first job out of University ).
> > I've worked with architectural firms, engineering firms, and
> > construction (and patent law) attorneys, where I had to submit
> > preliminary construction documents for bids to both government and
> > private business, which included high security projects.
> > In the recent course of this work, I've used Autocad, MiniCad,
> > Datacad and other software always using this *design criteria*.
> > I have had the occaision ( and opportunity ) to work on some
> > blackbox projects where I had to take an actual physical object
> > and using digitial measuring instruments plot into 3D and then
> > into 2D. That was a fascinating and fun job. Nonetheless, this
> > drafting standard ( or practice ) was in keeping with the companies
> > and contractors I worked for and "they" expected me to adhere to it.
> >
> > This is just a small partial list of the experiences I've had.
> > However, at 52, I've been out of touch for awhile, so there are
> > techniques and possibilites out there that I haven't considered
> > or tried. I'm still doing things the old fashion way.
> > "Wrong" may not be the word I would have chosen.
> > "Better" like in a better way of doing things.
> > "Smarter and more efficient" comes to mind, too.
> > Anyway, I'm not slapping your hand. Just letting you know that
> > some of us old warhorses might be a little behind the tech curve.
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> >
> > >From: Steven Mills <barycenter@earthlink.net>
> > > OkyDoky !
> > > Just wanted to make sure. :-)
> > >
> > > Thanks, --Steve
> > >
> > >From: Warrend Greenway <dub@linuxmail.org>
> > > You are wrong, Steve! You can do it however you know how!
> > > The software I am familiar with creates 2D drawings from
> > > 3D, but the other way around is perfectly vaild. I don't
> > > think that this will cause any problems for some time, since
> > > all interchange will be in 2D through initial design. If
> > > I've missed something, then slap MY hand!
> > >
> > > Warren.
> > >
> > > > I'm probably reading this wrong and missing the the point.
> > > >
> > > > Are we bypassing the 2D drawing process for "strictly" 3D?
> > > >
> > > > If we are sticking to standards then the standard practice is
> > > > to start with drawing a 2D plot : the profiles, mid-sections,
> > > > top, side...etc. From there the subsequent drawings illustrate
> > > > the detailed work; hydraulics, propulsion, control system...etc.
> > > >
> > > > *From the 2D plot (s)a dataset is derived to produce a 3D plot and
> > > > rendering.
> > > >
> > > > ( I suppose it could be done the other way around and take the
> > > > points off of the 3D and produce a 2D, but it's a backward way
> > > > to do things )
> > > >
> > > > Whether it's commercial or non-commercial ( open source )
> > > > architects and Naval Architects follow this practice to produce
> > > > an official construction document.
> > > >
> > > > If I'm wrong about this then slap my hand and I will be happy!
> > > >
> > > > --Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <jbarlow@bjservices.ca>
> > > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 1:28 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DXF Files
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How do dxf files work? I am very curious.
> > > > > I have used them for years and have no inkling.
> > > > > Jay.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Warrend Greenway"
> > > > > <dub@linuxmail.org> To:
> > > > personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > > Sent by: cc:
> > > > > owner-personal_submersible Subject:
> Re:
> > > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS
> > > > > s@psubs.org
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 12/01/2003 10:42 PM
> > > > > Please respond to
> > > > > personal_submersibles
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DXF can store 2D. ??? What format would your recommend? I actually
> > hate
> > > > > DXFs since I know
> > > > > how they work! I only recommended them because every CAD program I
> > know of
> > > > > can utilize them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warren.
> > > > >
> > > > > > No DXF!!! 2D only!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DWG or SAT for 3D (volume, mass info)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pierre
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Warrend Greenway" <dub@linuxmail.org>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > > > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS
> > > > > > >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:31:52 +0800
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >OK. You have a lot of opinions. :) Ready to help compile that
> list
> > of
> > > > > those
> > > > > > >interested
> > > > > > >and the skills they bring to the table? A landlubber is
perfectly
> > > > > suited.
> > > > > > >Furthermore,
> > > > > > >you seem to grasp the situation perfectly. I don't think we
need
> to
> > > > > worry
> > > > > > >about a new
> > > > > > >server at this point, but I have a server I would offer to the
> > cause if
> > > > > it
> > > > > > >ever got to
> > > > > > >that point. What I would like to see is everyone who has
> expressed
> > > > > interest
> > > > > > >to either
> > > > > > >post their wish-list or e-mail them to myself or you...:) So we
> can
> > > > > compile
> > > > > > >a preliminary
> > > > > > >spec. It will probably change a bit as time goes on, but it
will
> > give
> > > > us
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >place to start!
> > > > > > >Please, all, spec the following:
> > > > > > >1. Length
> > > > > > >2. Diameter
> > > > > > >3. Speed
> > > > > > >4. Range or dive time
> > > > > > >5. Safe dive depth
> > > > > > >6. Cost window
> > > > > > >7. Further comments
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >It seems like lead acid is the power source of choice. I can
> handle
> > a
> > > > > PWM
> > > > > > >speed control,
> > > > > > >so I don't think we need to worry about potentiometers or
> anything
> > like
> > > > > > >that. Batteries
> > > > > > >and motor should probably be stored outside the pressure hull.
> > Steel
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > >to be the
> > > > > > >pressure hull material of choice. Gauges and electronics should
> be
> > left
> > > > > > >flexible, to
> > > > > > >accomodate a variety of tastes, needs, and budgets.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Let's agree to use DXF for electronic drawings and TXT or HTML
> for
> > > > text.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Warren.
> > > > > > >warrend@decagon.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good Evening all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I just read all the posts since this morning... wow! You've
> > been
> > > > > busy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > OK... here goes. Carsten had some good points. I think if
I
> > spent
> > > > > > > > hours on end burning the midnite oil and then saw that
> somebody
> > was
> > > > > > > > selling the plans in the back of Popular Mechanics... and
> > getting
> > > > > rich,
> > > > > > > > I'd be furious.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now... open source does not necessarily mean the project
could
> > not
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > turned to profit making. There are lots of people making
> money
> > from
> > > > > > > > Linux, after all. I also wonder how we might control anyone
> who
> > did
> > > > > > > > decide to take the OSS design and start building and selling
> > it...
> > > > > > > > copyleft documents would not do.... as such documents do in
> fact
> > > > > allow
> > > > > > > > one to reproduce and sell it. We need rather, a patent on
any
> > > > > > > > intelectual property in the design to do this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think that the best way to control commercial use of the
> > project
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > > be to design it such that it would not be commercially
viable.
> > > > I.e.:
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > one person submersible could never be used to "give rides",
> and
> > the
> > > > > > > > potential market for such a machine would be negligible.
> > Liability
> > > > > > > > would kill it before the first dozen had hit the water.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The other thing is that it should be stressed concept only.
> The
> > > > idea
> > > > > > > > would be for people to build their own machines to the
> > > > specifications
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the project documents... not for anyone to try to market a
kit
> > to be
> > > > > > > > assembled.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If we produce the plans and the documentation... this
material
> > could
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > most certainly would be copyrighted. It could be
distributed
> > free
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > charge in electronic form. Just the fact that we would be
> > giving it
> > > > > > > > away free would discourage competition.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A separate list with url... well, it certainly could be
done,
> > but
> > > > how
> > > > > > > > big a monster is this going to become? Do we need a new
list?
> > Do
> > > > we
> > > > > > > > need a new server... possibly with a forum? Right now this
is
> > all
> > > > > new
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > and exciting... like the new girl in school... but the early
> > > > interest
> > > > > > > > may fade as the drudgery hits.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A camel has been described as a horse designed by
comittee...
> > but
> > > > > then,
> > > > > > > > a camel is a pretty impressive piece of technology. Even
> though
> > God
> > > > > > > > likely did not consult a comittee upon finalizing the two or
> > three
> > > > > > > > designs, the concept is still valid. I think that this
would
> > > > > function
> > > > > > > > best if somebody would take charge and start assigning tasks
> as
> > soon
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > > possible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We perhaps need to compile a list of who is interested. We
> > could
> > > > > easily
> > > > > > > > form our own mail list and take it off the psub list... but
> you
> > know
> > > > > > > > what? I suspect that even those not participating would
find
> > the
> > > > > > > > project of interest and it would be a simple matter to set
> > filters
> > > > up
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > shunt anything with "OSS" in the subject line to a specific
> > > > location.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A wish list might be one of the first things to be
> enumerated...
> > > > just
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > > soon as we know who we are.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This could work. For some reason I don't understand, there
> > seems to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > quite a bit of commeradery here... and little or no
bickering.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > OK, enough from the landlubber. I've already put out my
"wish
> > list"
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > mentioned how I think I might be able to help. I'm going to
> sit
> > > > back
> > > > > > > > and watch until somebody tells me to go out and get an
> original
> > copy
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the plans for Trieste or something.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dale A. Raby
> > > > > > > > Editor/Publisher
> > > > > > > > The Green Bay Web
> > > > > > > > http://www.thegreenbayweb.com
> > > > > > ><< dalesignature.gif >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--
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