Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS/ subject copyrights of design

["Michael Wludarczyk" <divedawn13@hotmail.com>]

hi you all.
please look, the way Bruce Roberts is handling this problem
with his building plans for the homebuild yachts he is offering.
www.Bruce-Roberts.com
give it a try, that will clearefy a lot of questions you are having right 
now.
Mike.w.





>From: MerlinSub@t-online.de (Carsten Standfuss)
>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS
>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:33:37 +0100
>
>Hi submadmans, based on the Kittredge design as startpoint
>I would like to see:
>
>- a doubleseater, 100 % more fun for 15-20% more cost.
>
>- a warp around acrylic cylinder in the tower like the
>the Pauls  S101 and S102 have, so we can combinate the
>good view of the dome Boats - and the good freeboard of the
>tophatch boats versions..
>
>- a much better outline hull, special at the bow and stern area -
>but maybe no cover in the hull area. Bow like S101..
>
>- a bolted stainless steel frame stern endcap with a seal so the boat
>  can be completly open for building and later for maintance.
>  On the stern cap for the reason that we can design a extra section
>"Dieselsection" which can be added as plug in modul for the boys with
>the long lakes in there garden.. same flange can be used for a diver
>exit chamber modul - or for both moduls..
>
>- all plans also on a DXF/DWG 2D CAD system - special the metal cut
>sheets in a form that you can give a disk to a plasma/higwaterpressure
>cutting company and all parts can be cut by CNC machines to make the
>building
>quick, easy and cheap..
>
>- size mind 2 and max. 3 ts so can be carring behind a light truck.
>
>- in steel it should be not a big deal to design it for 200-300 meter
>   (650-1000 ft)
>
>A figure of 20-30.000 USD is probably right..
>
>After the general defintion phase - the design team should be
>reduce to an expirence and small group - present just results.
>
>"20 boys into a small galley making something will be a nightmare of a
>dinner.."
>
>It must be a clear non commercial project - or I will not spend any time
>on it.
>It must drawn by hand or at a 2D CAD programm - or I am out for personal
>reasons.
>I manly will investigate time in this project if I found something looks
>unsave.
>
>If OSS is a sucess or not - depents only on the campainer/moderator
>not on the technic..
>
>Be carefull Warrend - Campainer for this is a real hard figure.. :-)
>
>Warrend .. a question - many years at Psubs it was a good pracise to
>introduce
>yourself.. age, pracise, dreams job etc.. have you done this ?
>(Sorry if I maybe I miss that. )
>
>best regards, Carsten
>
>
>
>Warrend Greenway schrieb:
> >
> > OK. You have a lot of opinions. :) Ready to help compile that list of 
>those interested
> > and the skills they bring to the table? A landlubber is perfectly 
>suited. Furthermore,
> > you seem to grasp the situation perfectly. I don't think we need to 
>worry about a new
> > server at this point, but I have a server I would offer to the cause if 
>it ever got to
> > that point. What I would like to see is everyone who has expressed 
>interest to either
> > post their wish-list or e-mail them to myself or you...:) So we can 
>compile a preliminary
> > spec. It will probably change a bit as time goes on, but it will give us 
>a place to start!
> > Please, all, spec the following:
> > 1. Length
> > 2. Diameter
> > 3. Speed
> > 4. Range or dive time
> > 5. Safe dive depth
> > 6. Cost window
> > 7. Further comments
> >
> > It seems like lead acid is the power source of choice. I can handle a 
>PWM speed control,
> > so I don't think we need to worry about potentiometers or anything like 
>that. Batteries
> > and motor should probably be stored outside the pressure hull. Steel 
>seems to be the
> > pressure hull material of choice. Gauges and electronics should be left 
>flexible, to
> > accomodate a variety of tastes, needs, and budgets.
> >
> > Let's agree to use DXF for electronic drawings and TXT or HTML for text.
> >
> > Warren.
> > warrend@decagon.com
> >
> >
> > > Good Evening all,
> > >
> > > I just read all the posts since this morning... wow!  You've been 
>busy.
> > >
> > > OK... here goes.  Carsten had some good points.  I think if I spent
> > > hours on end burning the midnite oil and then saw that somebody was
> > > selling the plans in the back of Popular Mechanics... and getting 
>rich,
> > > I'd be furious.
> > >
> > > Now... open source does not necessarily mean the project could not be
> > > turned to profit making.  There are lots of people making money from
> > > Linux, after all.  I also wonder how we might control anyone who did
> > > decide to take the OSS design and start building and selling it...
> > > copyleft documents would not do.... as such documents do in fact allow
> > > one to reproduce and sell it.  We need rather, a patent on any
> > > intelectual property in the design to do this.
> > >
> > > I think that the best way to control commercial use of the project 
>would
> > > be to design it such that it would not be commercially viable.  I.e.: 
>a
> > > one person submersible could never be used to "give rides", and the
> > > potential market for such a machine would be negligible.  Liability
> > > would kill it before the first dozen had hit the water.
> > >
> > > The other thing is that it should be stressed concept only.  The idea
> > > would be for people to build their own machines to the specifications 
>in
> > > the project documents... not for anyone to try to market a kit to be
> > > assembled.
> > >
> > > If we produce the plans and the documentation... this material could 
>and
> > > most certainly would be copyrighted.  It could be distributed free of
> > > charge in electronic form.  Just the fact that we would be giving it
> > > away free would discourage competition.
> > >
> > > A separate list with url... well, it certainly could be done, but how
> > > big a monster is this going to become?  Do we need a new list?  Do we
> > > need a new server... possibly with a forum?  Right now this is all new
> > > and exciting... like the new girl in school... but the early interest
> > > may fade as the drudgery hits.
> > >
> > > A camel has been described as a horse designed by comittee... but 
>then,
> > > a camel is a pretty impressive piece of technology.  Even though God
> > > likely did not consult a comittee upon finalizing the two or three
> > > designs, the concept is still valid.  I think that this would function
> > > best if somebody would take charge and start assigning tasks as soon 
>as
> > > possible.
> > >
> > > We perhaps need to compile a list of who is interested.  We could 
>easily
> > > form our own mail list and take it off the psub list... but you know
> > > what?  I suspect that even those not participating would find the
> > > project of interest and it would be a simple matter to set filters up 
>to
> > > shunt anything with "OSS" in the subject line to a specific location.
> > >
> > > A wish list might be one of the first things to be enumerated... just 
>as
> > > soon as we know who we are.
> > >
> > > This could work.  For some reason I don't understand, there seems to 
>be
> > > quite a bit of commeradery here... and little or no bickering.
> > >
> > > OK, enough from the landlubber.  I've already put out my "wish list" 
>and
> > > mentioned how I think I might be able to help.  I'm going to sit back
> > > and watch until somebody tells me to go out and get an original copy 
>of
> > > the plans for Trieste or something.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dale A. Raby
> > > Editor/Publisher
> > > The Green Bay Web
> > > http://www.thegreenbayweb.com
> > << dalesignature.gif >>
> >
> > --
> > ______________________________________________
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