Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] group submarine designing - good or bad.

["Warrend Greenway" <dub@linuxmail.org>]

Right. This is about the individual building a "personal sub". The design is
all we are talking about. If you don't want to build one, and only care about
the cerebral part...Well, I think someone could give you a dive in the final
product, someone who did care to build it.

Warren.

> I'm not sure that actually building the sub is the idea, is it?  I was
> under the impression that it was a "community design cooperative" or
> something like that.  Where would the sub be kept?  Who would be the
> caretaker?  Once built, who could run it?
> Carl
> 
> 
> Warrend Greenway wrote:
> > 
> > It would be open source in that it could be used for profit as long as any improvements/
> > info developed are put back into the project and made available for all. It's non
> > commercial in that the PSUBS.org group working on/guiding the project are designing it
> > specifically to meet the needs of all of us home builders. The project will stagnate as
> > you predict if a basic spec sheet isn't written quickly so that specific areas of interest
> > may be developed. I guided a few project in the past, and the trick was to get into the
> > dirty details as quickly as possible.
> > 1. Who wants to build the speed controller?
> > 2. Who wants to do the view-ports?
> > 3. Life support, anyone?
> > 4. Basic hull?
> > 
> > The only thing the K class is supposed to do for us is give us something to consider.
> > 
> > 1. Is it large enough, or is it too small?
> > 2. Is speed/range acceptable, or does it need to be improved.
> > 3. Is it portable enough, or is that a concern?
> > 4. Does it fit within average financial constraints?
> > 5. Is manueverability acceptable?
> > 
> > This is all the K class is supposed to do. You are entirely correct that we have find
> > ourselves in hot water if we ripped off the design. On the other hand, how much of the
> > K class technology is actually proprietary? Not much. We shouldn't spend all our time
> > talking over what a cool idea this all is, but rather focus on the details, just as
> > you suggested. For instance: I am quite capable of developing either the "black-box"
> > or the speed controller, or stepper controllers for rudder/duve plane control. Just tell
> > me what it needs to do exactly, how large a motor? What do you want the black box to store
> > and or display? Someone just needs to do the same with the hull. Who has experience with
> > sub pressure hulls? Who has fiberglass experience for fairings? etc.
> > 
> > Warren.
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > > "non commercial" vs open source.
> > >
> > > If it's "non commericial" then I don't see how it's open source.
> > > There is no open source project that says you can not use it
> > > for commerical use.  They are plenty of projects that provide
> > > a "not for commerical use" version, sometimes with source code,
> > > but this isn't an open source project and calling it an open
> > > source project would dilute the (already over loaded) term
> > > "open source".  - just my 2 cents.
> > >
> > >
> > > Group submarine project.
> > >
> > > Wasn't there a couple of people (from this list?) who tried to
> > > design a submarine together and after 3 years still had not
> > > finish the specs stage?  (I heard this third hand so I could
> > > be wrong).
> > >
> > >I'm not saying this is a bad idea, although the energy might
> > > be better spent focusing on more specific areas of submarine
> > > design, such as a motor control circuit (I remember Ken Martindale
> > > posted Motor Controller Schematic http://www.psubs.org/pic/motorcontrol.html),
> > > or a trim tank control system, or Auto-Hover depth control like the
> > > sport sub, or a black box dive recorded, or nice way of controlling
> > > a spot lights direction from within the submarine.... etc..
> > > I.e. things that are really useful to the submarine building
> > > community.
> > >
> > >
> > > K-350 vs open source.
> > >
> > > I don't recall George Kittredge open sourcing his K-350
> > > design, which means that we don't have permission to create
> > > works derived from any of Kittredge designs and then give
> > > the plans away for free.  We could produce designs that
> > > could be used with a K class, "Auto-hover depth control for
> > > you K-250", but not redesign a K class and then give the
> > > plans away.  I don't think anybody here would buy all the
> > > rights for the K class off George and then open source it
> > > either.
> > >
> > >
> > > Talking vs work.
> > >
> > > I'm interesting in being a part of this idea, but not
> > > until I see that real progress is possible.  I'm also
> > > not convinced that it is a good idea to be a psubs
> > > project, and that it may open psubs.org up to more
> > > liability than the people running it would wish.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ian.
> > 
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> -- 
> "You delight not in a city's seven or seventy wonders, but in an answer
> it gives to a question of yours, or the question it asks you, forcing
> you to answer, like Thebes through the mouth of the Sphinx." -- Kublai
> Khan

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