RE: Language was - Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE

["Graham K" <cryogenicz@dsl-only.net>]

Defiantly, must stop :)


Avec le beaucoup de respect
Graham Kuberski

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of Captain Nemo
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 1:14 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: Language was - Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE


Carsten and Graham,

Oui, je suis d'accord. Cette discussion devraint finir ici.

Au revoir, mes amis.

Pat


----- Original Message -----
From: "Carsten Standfuss" <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 9:50 AM
Subject: Language was - Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE


> Funny.. both.. but great - and I can understand everything..
> Pat's is just a little better - sorry Graham.. :-)
>
> Today our childrens speaking a mixture language -
> 75-80 % german with 20-25 % english - not so lustig/funny.
> Comes from  TV advertising.. and chat groups :-(
>
> And today I had a great progress with meinen Unterseeboot.
>
> But this tread should end here..
>
> Carsten
>
> Graham K schrieb:
> >
> > Hallo Pat,
> >
> > Ihr Deutsch scheint sehr rostig! Ich würde denken, daß wenn Sie eine
> > Nachricht auf deutsch geschickt haben, den Sie es richtig tippen würden!
:)
> > Hoffe Auf dem otherhand, ich, daß mein Deutsch nicht irgendein
schlimmeres
> > ist, als ihres Machen eines Narren meines mich selbst.
> >
> > Beachtungen,
> >
> > Graham Kuberski
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of Captain Nemo
> > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 4:56 AM
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
> >
> > Hallo Carsten,
> >
> > Unsere uhren sind zwolf Stunden einzeln.  Das ist hier in Den
Hawaii-Inseln
> > Mitternacht-; Mittag in Deutschland.  Ich soll schlafen, und wenn Sie
> > Mittagessen essen, Sollen sie an Ihrem unterseeboot arbeiten.  Aber hier
> > sind wir an PSUBS.  Wir mussen verruckt sein.  ;-)
> >
> > Ich stimme mit allem uberein, das Sie in Ihrer Nachricht gesagt haben.
Ich
> > werde versuchen, auf verschiedenartige Teile, aber auf englisch zu
> > reagieren, weil das fur mich einfacher ist, und die anderen Leute
Deutschen
> > nicht verstehen konnen.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carsten Standfuss" <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 11:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
> >
> > > Pat okay I agree - but ..
> > >
> > > In 1987 I build the first version of the main-engine of Sgt.Peppers
from
> > > a old car starter engine. I have still not very much knowledge of
> > > electric - only very less.. The power was I think 12 V with 49 amp.
The
> > > strongest relais I can found on the market was 12 V 40 amp.
> > > (I need some relais to switch the engine to the reverse thrust) I
> > > connected two relais of 12 v 40 A parallel line together to get one of
> > > 12 V 80 A. Works well during test onshore with the propeller in air..
I
> > > found no security switch for this currents in the car shop - so I work
> > > without one.. During the first drive in water I switch the reverse
> > > button - and first the one relias burn fix and out and a milisecond
> > > later the other one..
> > >
> > > - was this experimental ?
> > > - or just unsafe ?
> >
> > Both.  And I've had experiences like that, too.  Back then, we had to
figure
> > it all out as we went along.  Kind of scary, wasn't it?
> >
> > >
> > > I think any electrican or somebody with knowlege about electric on
Psub
> > > can easy explain why this don't work - and why the relias burned out
> > > just some 6 inch away from my face. Lucky I manage to shut off the
main
> > > battery (3,8 Kwh..of power) dissconector switch before a bigger
> > > accident turned my face in something others.. (I was 22 in 1987 and my
> > > girlfriend at this time like my face in the version it was during this
> > > time..
> > >
> > > Today - if I have something to design on a electric of CSSX - I ask
the
> > > right people - here on Psub or on the yard. Why take a experiment in a
> > > field which is proven and safe since over
> > > decades of years ?
> >
> > I agree.  I think one should do all he can to be sure his submarine
systems
> > are safe; including asking for assistance when it's available.  On the
other
> > hand, there are people who build subs as a test of their own skills, and
> > they want to do it all by themselves, to prove they can do it.  Of
course,
> > that is more dangerous, but some people like it that way.  I worry about
> > what they might do to themselves; and what effect it might have on me as
a
> > subber; and sometimes I've spoken out about it; but beyond that it's out
of
> > my hands.  They're going to do what they want to do.
> >
> > When you and I did it that way, it was because there wasn't a lot of
> > information about homebuilt sub design and construction available back
in
> > the 80's.  So we developed our boats out of our own private research.
My
> > subs were  the result of years of R&D with everything from snorkels to
AIP
> > systems; and I experimented with wetsubs and ambients before going on to
> > pressure hulls.  For me there was no other way.  But as you say, that
was
> > way back then and this is now.  Nowadays, there is more informaton
> > available.  That's good, as long as the information is reliable.  And
yeah,
> > I think it's wise for the prospective sub builder to take advantage of
that.
> > I can't recall ever saying otherwise; and  if it ever sounded that way,
> > that's not what I meant to say.
> >
> > But all I was saying in the post before this one is this:  even if the
> > submarine is a Kitteredge boat, built from plans and using hull
components
> > manufactured by the local metal-fab shop and welded together by a
> > professional boilermaker, it's still an experimental until it's proven
safe,
> > and should be treated with caution.  Wouldn't you agree?
> >
> > > Cssx will get a fuelcell drive. this will be my main experiment on
this
> > > boat - but I do not really want to find out how to close securit a 100
> > > Kw electric main engine in a sub full of hydrogen and oxygen.. So I
ask
> > > allways for help if I found that the physics is a little outside my
> > > knowledge..
> >
> > That makes good sense.
> >
> > The other experiment on Cssx will be a boat without
> > > seawater pipe inside
> > > the boat - but with remote controlled outside main vales for all soft
> > > and hard tanks.
> > > To my knowledge nobody did this before to control such a vessel - so
> > > this will be a new
> > > field - because the expierence is not make up today. Will report about
> > > the results..
> >
> > Interesting.  Will you use automatic servo-valves outside the pressure
hull?
> > Will they be hydraulic, pneumatic, electric, or mechanically activated?
> > What about backup systems if the automatic valves fail?
> >
> > >
> > > If somebody designed something and display it - maybe in coulor
pictures
> > > on Psub and maybe very proud.. - and complete wrong or unsafe from a
> > > standpoint of a professional- how should we handle that ? Just make a
> > > notice for the archive files - were they are quick forgotten ?
> > >
> > > regards Carsten
> >
> > Carsten, that question deals with administrative issues and should be
> > addressed to the webmaster.  This is not my website.  I'd rather not
express
> > a pubic opinion on that particular subject.
> >
> > Anyway, nice talking with you, and good luck with your sub.
> >
> > Pat
>