Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE

["Captain Nemo" <vulcania@hawaii.rr.com>]

Hallo Carsten,

Unsere uhren sind zwolf Stunden einzeln.  Das ist hier in Den Hawaii-Inseln
Mitternacht-; Mittag in Deutschland.  Ich soll schlafen, und wenn Sie
Mittagessen essen, Sollen sie an Ihrem unterseeboot arbeiten.  Aber hier
sind wir an PSUBS.  Wir mussen verruckt sein.  ;-)

Ich stimme mit allem uberein, das Sie in Ihrer Nachricht gesagt haben.  Ich
werde versuchen, auf verschiedenartige Teile, aber auf englisch zu
reagieren, weil das fur mich einfacher ist, und die anderen Leute Deutschen
nicht verstehen konnen.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Carsten Standfuss" <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE


> Pat okay I agree - but ..
>
> In 1987 I build the first version of the main-engine of Sgt.Peppers from
> a old car starter engine. I have still not very much knowledge of
> electric - only very less.. The power was I think 12 V with 49 amp. The
> strongest relais I can found on the market was 12 V 40 amp.
> (I need some relais to switch the engine to the reverse thrust) I
> connected two relais of 12 v 40 A parallel line together to get one of
> 12 V 80 A. Works well during test onshore with the propeller in air.. I
> found no security switch for this currents in the car shop - so I work
> without one.. During the first drive in water I switch the reverse
> button - and first the one relias burn fix and out and a milisecond
> later the other one..
>
> - was this experimental ?
> - or just unsafe ?

Both.  And I've had experiences like that, too.  Back then, we had to figure
it all out as we went along.  Kind of scary, wasn't it?


>
> I think any electrican or somebody with knowlege about electric on Psub
> can easy explain why this don't work - and why the relias burned out
> just some 6 inch away from my face. Lucky I manage to shut off the main
> battery (3,8 Kwh..of power) dissconector switch before a bigger
> accident turned my face in something others.. (I was 22 in 1987 and my
> girlfriend at this time like my face in the version it was during this
> time..
>
> Today - if I have something to design on a electric of CSSX - I ask the
> right people - here on Psub or on the yard. Why take a experiment in a
> field which is proven and safe since over
> decades of years ?

I agree.  I think one should do all he can to be sure his submarine systems
are safe; including asking for assistance when it's available.  On the other
hand, there are people who build subs as a test of their own skills, and
they want to do it all by themselves, to prove they can do it.  Of course,
that is more dangerous, but some people like it that way.  I worry about
what they might do to themselves; and what effect it might have on me as a
subber; and sometimes I've spoken out about it; but beyond that it's out of
my hands.  They're going to do what they want to do.

When you and I did it that way, it was because there wasn't a lot of
information about homebuilt sub design and construction available back in
the 80's.  So we developed our boats out of our own private research.  My
subs were  the result of years of R&D with everything from snorkels to AIP
systems; and I experimented with wetsubs and ambients before going on to
pressure hulls.  For me there was no other way.  But as you say, that was
way back then and this is now.  Nowadays, there is more informaton
available.  That's good, as long as the information is reliable.  And yeah,
I think it's wise for the prospective sub builder to take advantage of that.
I can't recall ever saying otherwise; and  if it ever sounded that way,
that's not what I meant to say.

But all I was saying in the post before this one is this:  even if the
submarine is a Kitteredge boat, built from plans and using hull components
manufactured by the local metal-fab shop and welded together by a
professional boilermaker, it's still an experimental until it's proven safe,
and should be treated with caution.  Wouldn't you agree?



> Cssx will get a fuelcell drive. this will be my main experiment on this
> boat - but I do not really want to find out how to close securit a 100
> Kw electric main engine in a sub full of hydrogen and oxygen.. So I ask
> allways for help if I found that the physics is a little outside my
> knowledge..

That makes good sense.



The other experiment on Cssx will be a boat without
> seawater pipe inside
> the boat - but with remote controlled outside main vales for all soft
> and hard tanks.
> To my knowledge nobody did this before to control such a vessel - so
> this will be a new
> field - because the expierence is not make up today. Will report about
> the results..

Interesting.  Will you use automatic servo-valves outside the pressure hull?
Will they be hydraulic, pneumatic, electric, or mechanically activated?
What about backup systems if the automatic valves fail?

>
> If somebody designed something and display it - maybe in coulor pictures
> on Psub and maybe very proud.. - and complete wrong or unsafe from a
> standpoint of a professional- how should we handle that ? Just make a
> notice for the archive files - were they are quick forgotten ?
>
> regards Carsten

Carsten, that question deals with administrative issues and should be
addressed to the webmaster.  This is not my website.  I'd rather not express
a pubic opinion on that particular subject.

Anyway, nice talking with you, and good luck with your sub.

Pat