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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water-powered Sub...



Actually, it is quite feasible if the PEM Fuel cells would last a bit longer. Who ever said you needed to store the hydrogen? If you had a high enough production and a few stacks, you could generate real time. And who said if you did store the hydrogen that you had to chill the entire sub to do it? That's what cryogenic containers are for. Just put them behind a bulkhead or something. And who said you had to use electrolysis to seperate water into hydrogen and oxygen? There are biocatalysts which don't require electricity. Sure, they aren't as efficient, but they still work. Instead of thinking we shouldn't bother because it's only a "nice toy for experimenters and hobbyists" maybe we should just try it and say "why not". Maybe then we could ditch our addiction to existing technology and embrace new ones. It just might be the solution to our dwindling petroleum reserves, plus reduce atmospheric pollution and its associated trappings. Hydrogen is the wave of the future, along with Fusion power. How will you charge those batteries to begin with? Just some thoughts... If I'm not mistaken, they thought Tesla himself was a lunatic, but then again, there's a reason the government confiscated most of his research and experiment with it in top secret facilities every day. It's called, VISION! Happy subbing!
 
- Jacob Lauser
----- Original Message -----
From: TeslaTony@aol.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water-powered Sub...

In a message dated 4/4/02 3:45:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, sirius@riverstyx.com writes:


Is anyone interested in a water-powered sub? All you have to do is hook
either a fresh-water tank or an intake/desalinization line into a hydrogen
generator ( http://www.eren.doe.gov/RE/hydrogen.html ,
http://www.nature.com/nsu/011206/011206-11.html ), pump the output into a
PEM Fuel cell ( http://www.ballard.com/portable_app.asp ), hook the
batteries up, and you're ready to jam. Imagine being restricted in your sub
dives only by the amount of food on board and the sanity of the crew! You
could tap the freshly desalinated water for drinking and sanitation, and
bleed off oxygen from the hydrogen generator for breathing. Hey, the Navy
does it... Isn't it about time the technology became widespread? Of course,
something like this would only be worth putting in a sub like CSSX because
of the cost... Give it 5 years though... You'll see ;)

- Jacob Lauser
  University of Arizona



Nice idea, in theory, but mostly useless in actual operation.

Hydrogen needs electricity to be generated from water, which means that if you generate electricity, split the water, put the hydrogen through a fuel cell, charge your batteries then run your motors, you've lost something like 75% of the power, depending on the efficiency of all the gear. Just charge the batteries instead.

There are cases when Hydrogen is practical, such as when you need more range or power than batteries might offer, but you'd have to store the Oxygen onboard for underwater runs. An advanced version of the old diesel boats would work better.

There are three ways to store hydrogen:

Cryogenics, which will turn you into a popsicle (and your sub into an iceberg, in all likelyhood) if it bursts, but ounce-for-ounce stores more power than Gasoline (not, however, by volume, which is something to consider).

High pressure, which can have a fairly high storage density, although is prone to blowing up if abused, just like a SCUBA tank.

Or there are Hydrides, which are very heavy (400lbs for a tank the size of a spare tire), but have the same hydrogen density as cryo, minus the freezing and explosion hazards (handling a .50 tracer round with no leakage is pretty impressive).

For now, Hydrogen is a nice toy for experimenters and hobbyists, although I suspect that it may never go beyond that due to how battery technology is advancing. We'll see.

Anthony