RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Radical Idea

["Gregory Snyder" <snyde032@umn.edu>]

Welcome Captain Charles -

Nice introduction to you!
I spent the last 30 minutes tracing out your design. 
I'd love to see a picture to make sure I got the design lines right.

Sounds like a great industrial applications craft.
I do like the idea of being under water without a tether to the surface
( less snagging potential, and more stealth fantasies...)

Sounds like a well thought out plan.
I'll put down my fork now...
Sincerely,
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
BluWtrSailr@aol.com
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:57 PM
To: Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Radical Idea

Ping, Ping, psubers detected...

Ahoy there...I guess I'm the new guy on the dock.  Charles is the name, 
accomplished amateur boat designer and builder.  Semi-new to computers
and 
new to the net.  Newborn to subs.
I have watched this group for about a week and have visited every
section of 
this page.  I salute you all on your thought-out contributions and would
like 
to say this is a very intellectual page.
First, let me say that I will not put a fork in my eye nor shall I allow

anyone else to do it. He he.
Secondly, I have given thought of creating my own personal sub plans and

building it, but it seems that I have a lot more to learn than I did
when 
designing my own 28 footer schooner.  Jeez, I thought keeping it afloat
was 
hard enough. Now I find myself looking around the physics of a sub and
think 
that chit just became harder because I have to make it sink and then
float.
I believe very strongly that the universal language is mathematics and 
everything in the universe is pure mathematics. So, I will make every
effort 
to relate everything involved to established mathematical theories and 
formulas.  I hope that this is not an error on my part.  I don't rely
too 
much on the fudge factor.
I have a design idea, radical I believe because I have not read it nor
seen 
it anywhere, yet I believe it may be mathematically correct.  However, 
(because of the fork in the eye thingie) I would like to obtain some
feedback 
before I put it down on paper.
Try to picture this.
A 2 man, 16 foot sub.  A pod of appropriate size to float with its
payload 
plus the displacement and payload of the sub. The framing will be 2.5 x
3 
pipe, 1/4" wall.  One pipe will run down the center line of the sole, 
longitudinally, from stern to bow, and will form a rocker at the bow.
Think 
of it as the spine of a boat, or a keel, and the bow will not be
endcapped 
but much more like the bow of a boat without the sharp connection, way
more 
rounded.
The framing for the deck of the sub will be the same dimensions, running
in 
the same direction, but there will be two frame members instead,  about
a 
foot apart and they will connect to the rocker at the bow and will form
an 
upside down u at the stern and connect to the sole frame about 5 feet
from 
the stern thereby creating a "box" for an aft cockpit, which will be
self 
draining and can be occupied when submerged or not.
This sub will be suspended by a 30' cable (that is the depth I am
designing 
the sub for), which will be attached to a winch on a pod.  The sub will
be 
"snorkel type" and will have all air hoses, ballast and breathing, wires
and 
control switches from pod to sub.  In other words, compressor,
generator, 
solar panel, batteries, gasoline,  and all other mechanicals will be in
the 
pod above (except for steering and such) and all controls will be in the
sub 
below.  The system will be redundant and the sub will be able to rise if
all 
or any failures occur at the pod.  Is a matter of fact, the sub will be
able 
to rise even if all tanks are full.  The cable will be there only to
control 
depth and will not be used to "pull" the sub up , only suspend it, and
will 
be winched in when the sub is to be attached to the pod by a "trailer"
bar.  
Can I call it that?
The sub will have 4 trolling motors attached as will the pod to maximize

keeping the pod and the sub lined up when submerged and for greater
turning 
whether linear or on its axis.  The sub will also have a motorcycle
engine 
which will propell the sub when the pod is attached to the back of the
sub to 
run on the water.  A removable fuel line will be attached to the sub
from the 
pod when the sub is not submerged so that fuel can be fed to the MC
engine.  
The only hazardous material on the sub will be human.
Now the skin.  Back to the frame.  The frame pipe being square will have
a 
groove ground out along its exterior for its entire length at a width of
the 
designed skin thickness of the sub.  This groove will allow me to take 
4x8x1/16 sheets of metal (which will be cut to desired length) and
insert 
them into the top and lower groove in layers, like LAMINATING, until the

required thickness is obtained, which will make the handling and welding
of 
material much simpler and will produce a sort of horizontal elliptical
shape 
for the sub (cross section).  This shape will be continuous from stern
to 
bow, except by the bow where it will be more rounder and the stern which
will 
be more square by the cockpit.  OF COURSE, EVERYTHING WILL BE WELDED AND
THE 
SOLE PLATE, DECK PLATE AND ANY FLAT SECTION WILL BE THICKER THAN ROUNDED

SECTIONS. Yes, I plan to reinforce in the interior every x feet, by also

laminating to required thickness.
Okay, there it is.  Actually, it's more complex than this but I figure
this 
is enough for the minds of this group to analyze and feed back.  I
welcome 
all suggestions and criticism and appreciate if everyone would help me
to 
keep the fork out of my eye.
Anybody think its radically correct and dooable?  Hopefully, with enough
feed 
back and help, I will put the plans on the board real soon and make them

available to the group for scrutiny and personal use if they
desire...free of 
charge of course.  Questions? Comments? Critisism (Ahem, constructive 
please)? Limitations?

Capt. Charles