RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Busby permission

["Greg Snyder" <snyde032@tc.umn.edu>]

Geez Dave - A little TOO much Caffeine today?
Sincerely,
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of D. Blake
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 10:41 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Busby permission


Psubs discussion group members:
As usual Phil raises his head and rewards us with his expert knowledge of
copyright law including more than a little name-dropping where the prospect
of money is of prime concern.
C'mon Phil, Andy and his sister?  Why the overwhelming concern with the
Busby family's welfare?  Are they in so desperate a situation that they
require your personal intervention on their behalf?  Maybe we should start a
contribution drive to help them out.  You know, help them to pay bills/ make
ends meet.  I'll contibute $25.00.  I make about $25k a year.  What will
your contribution be at that rate Phil?  Oh wait, you have already made your
contribution by offering yourself as their mouthpiece.  Maybe you should
acquire the rights with their permission of course.  That way you can
distribute the funds as you see fit.
Well, it gets pretty complicated pretty quick.  You are a take charge type
of person though.  Best we let you handle the particulars.
Seriously, there are at least two possibilities here that I can come up
with.
1)  The name "Frank Busby" and the book "Manned Submersibles" continues to
fade into obscurity over time, because the book is out of print, or else a
"reprint" is made and very few will be convinced enough of it's importance
to buy a copy.
2)  The man and the book gain a portion of immortality because the book is
freely distributed.  Lots of people; having read the book, are bittin by the
psub bug including the all important youngsters who spend a great deal of
time dreaming.

Best regards,
Big Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nuytten <72020.572@compuserve.com>
To: INTERNET:personal_submersibles@psubs.org
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Date: Saturday, November 18, 2000 10:01 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Busby permission


>Hello, Ray:
>        I just got back in town and saw your post regarding Frank Busby's
>book. After the last flurry of "it's in the public domain - no-one can stop
>us" versus "check first, or at least have the good taste to inform Busby's
>heirs as to what we propose to do . ." I contacted Andy Busby and explained
>what had transpired, what was proposed, and asked what his position and
>that of his sister would be to the copying or posting of "Manned
>Submersibles".
>        His response was predictable. He was amazed that anyone would
>entertain the idea of copying his father's work without affording him the
>courtesy of checking to see if he had any objections or wanted to add
>anything. He said, specifically, that if and when the book is re-issued, he
>plans to write a foreword describing Frank's work.  Re-issued?? Yeah, Frank
>had been working with Jim Joiner, president  of Best Publishing Inc., to
>have "Manned Submersibles" updated and reprinted, just before his death.
>So what? anybody can do a re-issue, according to what has been posted on
>Psubs. . . no ?? As always, it seems that the facts are a little different
>than the supposition.
>         I called Jim Joiner and asked him Best's position - he concurred
>that the existing text was the property of USN  and, 'probably', in the
>public domain ( note the 'probably' - we'll get back to it). The
>photographs, and quotations, however,remain the property of the owners
>and/or copyright holders. Where those holders had given Busby permission/
>authorization for a one-time, stated purpose  use ( as is usual) this
>permission would not extend to any others. Not USN not Best, not Psubs.
>Joiner said he already has a large file on this project and has identified
>the sources that will require re-authorization - it's the kind of thing
>that they do every day, and they have the staff to handle it.
>         For example, some of the pictures of our sub "Sea Otter" were
>supplied by Can-Dive.  We own the copyright to those shots. Any-one  who
>wishes to use them again is required to seek our permission, and if it is
>not forthcoming, then the shots may not be used. I asked Joiner how many of
>the illustrations fell into this category, but he didn't know, off the top
>of his head.
>        Back to the 'probably' - Andy Busby has done some considerable
>research into he and his sister's rights with regard to their fathers
>various publications. Not with an eye to making money, but to try to make
>the out-of-print  works available again. There is more than an even chance
>that the ONR contract called for a specific number of books to be published
>as a 'deliverable' or that ONR had the right to print X copies as a
>'deliverable'.  In either case, the contract was satisfied and a re-print
>would be the  subject of a new or extended  contract. It certainly seems
>that Andy could easily obtain an injunction to prevent any further
>distribution until the precise nature of the contract and the survivors
>rights, if any, could be ascertained. (This is me 'supposing', not Andy
>Busby saying that he would take that route.)
>        Presuming that Psub's objective in proposing to copy Frank's book
>is simply to make it available again, then this purpose may be more
>professionally served by Best Publishing Inc.  If the thought was to make a
>profit on it, then Frank's kids should be entitled to some share, I
>believe.
>        May I suggest that  I re-contact Jim Joiner, ask him what sort of
>time frame is likely  and see if it serves the purpose. If not, then Psubs
>is in for, at very least, a time-consuming round of locating and contacting
> the photo copyright holders.
>Phil Nuytten
>        May I suggest that .