[PSUBS-MAILIST] Flysubs was Re: Interesting idea

[MerlinSub@t-online.de (Carsten Standfuß)]

I subflymadmans, 

"Michael B. Holt" schrieb:
> 
> TeslaTony@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking about different things to do with subs (design/capabilities)
> > and thought that if Graham Hawkes could make a sub fly underwater, then why
> > couldn't the wings be enlarged a bit, add an airbreathing engine and set the
> > wings so that they could flip over to switch from positive lift (air) to
> > negative lift (for in the water).
> 
> Why have negative lift?  Let the vehicle be negatively buoyant, and
> let the wings provide the lift to keep it from diving too deep.  This
> idea dates from the early 60s, when the US Navy was talking about
> building
> a sub that would soar down for 8000 feet and then back up; the
> plan at that time was to glide to Hawaii without fuel.  In about 1964,
> the British Sub-Aqua Club published plans of a wet sub that diver
> could ride, and soar underwater.
> 
> Want to fly?  There's been at least one flying submarine built (in
> the early 60s).  It really worked; it had an airplane's N-number
> and a boat registration.

Do you mean the US Navy Convair XF 2Y "Sea Dart" from 1953 ? 
This was an Jet fighter aircraft which were able to land and 
start on the sea surface - but seems to me - not to dive. 

If you mean an other vessel - please send more information ! 

The germans had some design's at the end of WW II about submarines
which can "fly" over the water - but with the wings and propellers
still in the water. (hydrofoils) 

It was the hydrofoil-and dive- E- boat by F.H.Wendel
and also some projects of the Schertel-Sachsenberg Group
with design's of 65 t , 120 t and 105 t etc. 
Most intressting for us Psuber's will be the One-man sub 
design from 1942, 12 m long, 1 m beam 4,5 t heavy, on the 
surface 40 knots (hydrofoil). Underwater with a positive bouancy of 
0,6 t high speed with an 200 horsepower electroengine underwater for 
a short time. 

Also nice was "Project Manta" from 1944, a catamaran
hull sub with wings between the both hulls. This design 
could attack an enemy with four torpedos on diving station 
(or surface) and than run away on the surface with 50 knots.
I it has four big aircraft weels on the bottom of there 
hulls and was able to drive onshore very quick ...

If the enemy has deep charges and was big and slower - it runs 
on the surface away. If the enemey was quicker or an aircraft - it 
dives. If the enemey was quicker and has deep charges - it runs
onshore..

This design was 15m long, 6 m beam, 3,5 m high, pressure hull 
diameter was 1,5m , empty weight 15 ts, full loaded with 50 t,
dive deep 50-60 meter, Two diesel- electric drives of 1200 hp
and two walter turbines of 800-1000 hp each... 

Also the russian did a flying submarine design: 

In 1938 Mr.B.P.Ushakov work on a Project called "L-P-L"
(Letayushchey Podvodnaya Lodka) = Small-Fly-submarine. 
Weight was 15 t, 6 sections, Fly speed 185 km/hour, 
underwater about 2-3 knots, max.fly-level was 2500 m 
and max dive deep was 45 m, dive time was 1,5 minutes,
surfaceing time  was 1,8 minutes, Fly-range was 800 km
and underwater range about 5-6sm. Max.dive time was 45 hours. 
A crew of 3 with two 450 mm torpedos and one MG. 

At last but not least - I worked also some years
before on a submarine project which can gliding over the surface 
with 25 knots. 6 m long, crew of two with a KaMeWa 
pump jet drive on a V8 petrolengine. Some electric thruster 
for underwater. But the design study shows : A poor submarine
for shallow waters, a poor planing fast motorboat, only
for good weather - and expensive. I stopped working on the design 
study during the time my petrol engine driven motorboat exploded in 
the harbour during idle speed warming up. 
This planning-sub design didn't work with a diesel engine - to heavy.

The trick is simple: Much surface power from a walter plant or
aircraft petrol engines or simillar, small pressure hull with 
very big ballast water tanks. Will eat all your money if the heavy boat 
gliding or flying over the water. 
But there is a "deep diver" sub which can obviously 
fly at : www.psubs.org/pic/balloon1.html

Best regards, Carsten
> 
> 
> Mike