From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 4 14:39:38 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 19:39:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy. I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run. The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units. Any thoughts? Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 4 15:29:44 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 20:29:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <953828247.8471947.1738700984638@mail.yahoo.com> Jon, regarding the lights; I would run them and see what sort of heat is thrown out front. You could kill them quickly by epoxying them and sealing in the heat; whereas the oil would conduct the heat to the water. Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Wed, 5 Feb 2025 at 8:41 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary?? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy.? I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run.? The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units.? Any thoughts? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 4 19:09:05 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 14:09:05 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <953828247.8471947.1738700984638@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <953828247.8471947.1738700984638@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, I advise a braking system for sure. I have a SS 5/8" solid round bar stock going through 2, O rings as it passes through the hull penetrator. I have a small piece of SS flat bar that I can push from the inside against the aluminum spool that has notches in it so that the flat bar can grab whatever notch it wants. As far as the lights, I am running 10,000 LED lights on the outside and I just built aluminum housings for them with a strain relief fitting for the power cord to go through. I've tested them to 600' and they were fine. If one (when one goes bad, I can just take off the faceplate and replace the bulb without having to throw the whole hosing away. Rick On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 10:30?AM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, regarding the lights; I would run them and see what sort of heat is > thrown out front. You could kill them quickly by epoxying them and sealing > in the heat; whereas the oil would conduct the heat to the water. > > Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified > > > On Wed, 5 Feb 2025 at 8:41 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. > > 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so > that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it > unnecessary? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? > > 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and > was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling > the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy. I don't see the units as > having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of > compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a > viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run. The units would > require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and > my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light > emanating from the units. Any thoughts? > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 6 14:18:31 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2025 09:18:31 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question Message-ID: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific procedure for my particular application. I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic in the past. Can anyone help me with this? I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma? All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 6 19:56:54 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 00:56:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,? it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports.? Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves.? I am in the build stage for the R400.? As such this topic is near to my heart. I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997? Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy.? Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven.?? As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick.? ...??Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material.? ?Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator.? This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable.? ?This is for a flat viewport.? I don't know what you have for your boat. To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death!? Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag.? The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. Best Cliff On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific?procedure?for my particular?application.?I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic?in the past. Can anyone help me with this?I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma??All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: R400 Annealing Schedule.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 426055 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 6 20:26:22 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2025 01:26:22 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> PVHO-1-2023 has this to say on annealing: 2-4.5 Annealing All window material shall be annealed after all forming, machining, and machine polishing have been completed. All annealing shall take place in a forced-air circulation oven. Annealing shall be in accordance with Table 2-4.5-1. Time and temperature data for all annealing cycles shall be entered into PVHO-1 Form VP-1. A copy of the final anneal?s time/temperature chart shall be attached to PVHO-1 Form VP-1. See attached for the Table 2-4.5-1 excerpt from PVHO-1-2023. Sean On Thursday, February 6th, 2025 at 17:56, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Rick, it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports. Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves. I am in the build stage for the R400. As such this topic is near to my heart. > > I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997 Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy. Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. > > If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. > > The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven. > > As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick. ... Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material. Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator. This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable. This is for a flat viewport. I don't know what you have for your boat. > > To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death! Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag. The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. > > Best > > Cliff > > On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific procedure for my particular application. > I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic in the past. Can anyone help me with this? > I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma? > All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! > > Thanks > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PVHO-1-2023 Acrylic Window Annealing Schedule.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 130025 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 15:00:54 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:00:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,?I made an oven with computer controlled temerature and automatic ramp up and down. ?It took over 100 hrs, and the 3 inch material did sag 1\8 of an inch. ?That was fine in my case because it allowed me to make my dome 1\8 inch thicker. ?You will need to support the center or let it sag and you will have a slight dome. ? Rick, it was not the end of the world to make the oven and I am sure you can manage it. ?The charts are in the Handbook Of Acrylics.Hank On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 06:26:46 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: PVHO-1-2023 has this to say on annealing: 2-4.5 Annealing All window material shall be annealed after all forming,?machining, and machine polishing have been completed. All annealing shall take place in a forced-air circulation?oven. Annealing shall be in accordance with Table 2-4.5-1. Time and temperature data for all annealing cycles shall be entered into PVHO-1 Form VP-1. A copy of the final anneal?s time/temperature chart shall be attached to PVHO-1 Form VP-1. See attached for the Table 2-4.5-1 excerpt from PVHO-1-2023. Sean On Thursday, February 6th, 2025 at 17:56, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,? it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports.? Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves.? I am in the build stage for the R400.? As such this topic is near to my heart. I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997? Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy.? Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven.?? As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick.? ...??Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material.? ?Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator.? This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable.? ?This is for a flat viewport.? I don't know what you have for your boat. To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death!? Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag.? The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. Best Cliff On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific?procedure?for my particular?application.?I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic?in the past. Can anyone help me with this?I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma??All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 15:05:22 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:05:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,?I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly.Hank On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary?? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy.? I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run.? The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units.? Any thoughts? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 15:42:27 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:42:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <310716873.9939223.1738960947441@mail.yahoo.com> I thought that in a previous email Greg was quoted as saying that the machined surface could craze if not annealed & the machining? wouldn't effect the strength of the view port. I had summised from that that If Rick machined the edge any crazing wouldn't show & annealing wouldn't be necessary. Or will the crazing effect any sealing? Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 at 9:03 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 20:41:17 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 01:41:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1293914715.10032074.1738978877998@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks.? BTW, did you use the normalization schedules in the Stachiw Handbook of Acrylics or the table in the PVHO table that Sean sent?? I am not sure how I would support a larch flat disk viewport to prevent this sag and not mar the surface. On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 02:05:35 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,?I made an oven with computer controlled temerature and automatic ramp up and down. ?It took over 100 hrs, and the 3 inch material did sag 1\8 of an inch. ?That was fine in my case because it allowed me to make my dome 1\8 inch thicker. ?You will need to support the center or let it sag and you will have a slight dome. ? Rick, it was not the end of the world to make the oven and I am sure you can manage it. ?The charts are in the Handbook Of Acrylics.Hank On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 06:26:46 PM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: PVHO-1-2023 has this to say on annealing: 2-4.5 Annealing All window material shall be annealed after all forming,?machining, and machine polishing have been completed. All annealing shall take place in a forced-air circulation?oven. Annealing shall be in accordance with Table 2-4.5-1. Time and temperature data for all annealing cycles shall be entered into PVHO-1 Form VP-1. A copy of the final anneal?s time/temperature chart shall be attached to PVHO-1 Form VP-1. See attached for the Table 2-4.5-1 excerpt from PVHO-1-2023. Sean On Thursday, February 6th, 2025 at 17:56, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,? it was a lot easier for all of us when Greg Cotrell was fabricating and annealing our viewports.? Now, we have to figure all this out for ourselves.? I am in the build stage for the R400.? As such this topic is near to my heart. I have attached a PDF file of a spreadsheet I created for a normalization and annealing schedule for my flat disk viewports for my new boat. I got this information from two sources: Jerry Stachiw's " Handbook of Acrylics" and ASME PVHO-1-1997? Safety Standard for Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy.? Also, I have been in contact with Jon Wallace on this who has quite a bit of knowledge on the topic. If you cannot get Greg Cotrell to heat-treat your viewports, my suggestion is to read the appropriate sections of these two references to determine the normalization (prior to final machining of the rough cut) and annealing (after machining and surface polishing) schedules. You can then tailor a normalization and annealing schedule to give to the guy who is going to heat treat your acrylic viewports. The last time I spoke with Jon on this topic, he had done quite a bit of the work on building a microprocessor-controlled annealing oven.?? As to material for the bearing gasket for a flat viewport, both references say that these should be slightly oversized, of at least 80 -durometer hardness, and from 0.020 to 0.125 inches thick.? ...??Since the function of the gasket as primary or secondary seals, they should preferably be made from non-permeable elastomeric material.? ?Parker Haniffin's o-ring site has a material selection calculator.? This indicates Nitrile (Buna-N), EPDM and Viton are all unaffected by seawater and are applicable.? ?This is for a flat viewport.? I don't know what you have for your boat. To be honest with you Rick, the initial normalizing heat treatment schedule scares me to death!? Even though it calls for 266 F in Stachiw's book, I am afraid the 266 F is to high and that the 21.5" diameter x 3" thick acrylic disk will sag.? The plan is to mount in the oven horizontally. Best Cliff On Thursday, February 6, 2025 at 01:19:33 PM CST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: As mentioned before, I had to have my large viewport turned down on a lathe and I have contacted a couple of places that anneal acrylic and they said that they needed a specific?procedure?for my particular?application.?I had Greg Cottrell do it last time but was looking for someone say on the West coast if possible. I don't want to tell the companies I contacted how they will be used as that has been problematic?in the past. Can anyone help me with this?I also forgot what type of rubber O ring material I should use. Was it Nitrile or Buma??All that's left now is to install the viewports and she's ready to get wet! Thanks Rick?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 20:56:28 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 01:56:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <310716873.9939223.1738960947441@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> <310716873.9939223.1738960947441@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2135143434.10046250.1738979788057@mail.yahoo.com> Alan Rick's situation is a bit different from mine.? In my case I have a rectangular slab of cast acrylic that is 3 inches thick.? I need major machining to bring the slab into a rough-cut shape, not just small surface machining.? My reading of Stachiw is that if this casting has never been annealed, then I can expect significant dimensional changes in diameter (shrinking) and thickness (thickening).? His book says that after this initial annealing which he call normalization, no further dimensional changes are expected.? So to me, it makes sense to rough cut the disk from this slab to say 2-3% larger diameter than what my final dimension is, normalize the casting, then do the final machining, and then anneal again using either the PVHO or the Handbook of Acrylic schedule which are different and hope my dimensions don't change. This is all new to me so, I don't want to screw up this acrylic. On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 02:43:09 PM CST, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I thought that in a previous email Greg was quoted as saying that the machined surface could craze if not annealed & the machining? wouldn't effect the strength of the view port. I had summised from that that If Rick machined the edge any crazing wouldn't show & annealing wouldn't be necessary. Or will the crazing effect any sealing? Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 at 9:03 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 22:27:19 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 03:27:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] question In-Reply-To: <2135143434.10046250.1738979788057@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1781322847.9596164.1738889814461@mail.yahoo.com> <7W5l_2IW6kbXLWIHKkKB47KF8dve3kxZ3cp_5_13OEvYZjk_8HrrbgcD_riCXne62wXJ5PCr236iCBCuuRsvOHyMDhqb2-zn4FJYJZHWxSs=@protonmail.com> <1748616575.9932167.1738958454176@mail.yahoo.com> <310716873.9939223.1738960947441@mail.yahoo.com> <2135143434.10046250.1738979788057@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1014045641.10043144.1738985239796@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, I'll paste Alec's email below. But I read his email as saying that annealing after machining? is not necessary on the edges where they are not seen, as the sun is less likely to cause crazing there, and if it did it would have no detrimental effect.An additional thought is to do the final machining with lots of water cooling. Alan Hi friends, I just got a call from Greg, so took the opportunity to ask him about this question of whether or not to anneal the front viewport after machining it to the lower diameter. I was correct about "any time you machine, you anneal" being the proper thing to do, but he also confirmed that Kittredge never annealed his viewports (which were all tested to 500'). In his opinion, given the modest depths we operate at, we're fine without annealing. But what surprised me was the nature of the downside. He didn't think machined-but-not-annealed viewports would fail prematurely, but he said they would craze prematurely with exposed to the sun. What happens is that the machining heats just a very thin layer of acrylic, at the surface. When you heat those molecules, they contract 2-3 percent, and that puts stress between the thin layer of surface molecules and the ones beneath. The crazing you see when acrylic has been exposed to the sun is cracks between the surface molecules and those below. If there is built in stress between those layers, then the UV-induced cracks appear much more easily. He also reminded me of something else. Rick, when you pot the window, be sure to wipe off the excess Sikaflex, rather than cut it off with a razor. If you cut off the excess, there's a high chance of scoring the surface. That, particularly on the inside face of the window that is going to be under tension, is far more concerning than not annealing as far as affecting failure depth. Best, Alec Yahoo Mail ? Email Simplified On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 at 2:58 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 7 23:20:37 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2025 04:20:37 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emer Buoy brake and clear resin In-Reply-To: <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> References: <453102842.8436556.1738697978885.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <453102842.8436556.1738697978885@mail.yahoo.com> <684723887.9934535.1738958722293@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0ZXHSxJBLaJgK4zEEiCZEG68TEMyLzpiKfniibMr9gw1eAHmEBkcC_U8sFyphvXfNVBzgLVI6ORPqAmbm4e6yDOnJvofB7kBn7pB_6CNhBA=@protonmail.com> What epoxy did you use, and how powerful was the LED? I wonder about the possibility of a two part pour, where a relatively thin layer would be poured only between the emitter and the lens using a clear epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/clear-epoxy-resin/ ...and then a separate pour could be done between the back side of the emitter / electronics and the housing / heat sink, using a thermally conductive epoxy like this: https://mgchemicals.com/products/potting-compounds/epoxy-potting/thermally-conductive-epoxy/ Would depend I guess on how much heat the LED package puts out, the temperature of the surrounding water, and the efficacy of the housing heat sink. Was your test immersed? Sean On Friday, February 7th, 2025 at 13:05, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > I tested an LED light in epoxy and it bunt up pretty quickly. > Hank > > On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 12:39:54 PM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello folks, looking for some suggestions. > > 1) Are you braking your spool of rope for the emergency flotation buoy so that it doesn't unravel during normal operations or do you find it unnecessary? If so, can you describe how you are braking your spool? > > 2) I'm testing a set of off-the-shelf 12v led lights (4 inch round) and was going to oil compensate them but now I'm thinking about just filling the entire void with a clear non-yellowing epoxy. I don't see the units as having any useful or serviceable parts upon failure regardless of compensation method so sealing them permanently with epoxy seems like a viable and perhaps less messy method in the long run. The units would require approximately 1.25 inches (31.75mm) depth of epoxy to fill them and my only concern is what effect the dry epoxy will have on the light emanating from the units. Any thoughts? > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: