From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 2 16:21:20 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2024 21:21:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic Interior Refinishing References: <194805349.3703064.1709414480407.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <194805349.3703064.1709414480407@mail.yahoo.com> I have reached a milestone with the K600, interior prep and paint finish is complete. Total time was about three weeks spent grinding, wire brushing, prepping, priming, and painting. I found no significant rust issues that would cause me to call into question the integrity of the vessel. Most of the prep work involved using a wire brush on a grinder to loosen surface rust and feather the surrounding paint. The worst areas were below the main viewport, beneath the hatch area, and the bottom of the aft head. Using a wire brush cleaned the areas easily.The aft section of the vessel was in much better condition than the fore section and in the aft I only spot coated the problem areas with POR-15. In the fore section there was much more area showing surface rust and pin prick rust spots. By the time I was done grinding them down it just seemed to make more sense to completely prime with POR-15 rather than just spot coat each area.I used two coats of POR-15 as the primer and two coats of Macropoxy 646 as the finish coat. All very expensive paint but both providing a very durable and hard finish that I think will last a long time. I was impressed with the POR-15. After two coats it dried hard as a rock and felt extremely durable. I decided on an epoxy finish because I wanted something that would stick and bond to the POR-15, which the Macropoxy did without issue. The only thing I don't like about the Macropoxy is that it's a flat finish. I could have used Sher-Loxane instead but I didn't feel like spending another $240 for a glossy finish when I already had the Macropoxy available to me.The conning tower was in very good shape and required minimal wire brushing. Here again I spot coated those exposed areas with POR-15 however for the finish coat I wanted a gloss finish. While the original paint was obviously durable given it's condition, it showed dirt and scuff marks from years of people climbing in and out of the vessel. I decided I had to have a gloss finish on the conning tower but again didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars for a gallon of Sher-Loxane when I needed less than a quart, so I simply overcoated the existing finish with gloss white Rust-Oleum. We'll see how it holds up.The K600 now has $879 (US) in paint on it. Total cost to refinish the K600 exterior and interior is $2,283 (US) including sandblasting, paint, and supplies.Plan going forward is to let everything harden over the next week and then I can start outfitting the vessel. For non-Facebook members you can view the photos at?http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1709412155&C=&D=Interior%20Refinishing Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 2 19:47:00 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2024 14:47:00 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic Interior Refinishing In-Reply-To: <194805349.3703064.1709414480407@mail.yahoo.com> References: <194805349.3703064.1709414480407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <305DA0F9-7A47-4564-B80A-2E6905CDAA6F@gmail.com> Great news Jon. It?s a great feeling getting over certain hurdles! I just finished welding on the aft hemisphere and then completely wiping down the whole inside and hooking three ss 1/2? tubes that I couldn?t do until done with my internal pass. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 2, 2024, at 11:22?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > I have reached a milestone with the K600, interior prep and paint finish is complete. Total time was about three weeks spent grinding, wire brushing, prepping, priming, and painting. > I found no significant rust issues that would cause me to call into question the integrity of the vessel. Most of the prep work involved using a wire brush on a grinder to loosen surface rust and feather the surrounding paint. The worst areas were below the main viewport, beneath the hatch area, and the bottom of the aft head. Using a wire brush cleaned the areas easily. > The aft section of the vessel was in much better condition than the fore section and in the aft I only spot coated the problem areas with POR-15. In the fore section there was much more area showing surface rust and pin prick rust spots. By the time I was done grinding them down it just seemed to make more sense to completely prime with POR-15 rather than just spot coat each area. > I used two coats of POR-15 as the primer and two coats of Macropoxy 646 as the finish coat. All very expensive paint but both providing a very durable and hard finish that I think will last a long time. I was impressed with the POR-15. After two coats it dried hard as a rock and felt extremely durable. I decided on an epoxy finish because I wanted something that would stick and bond to the POR-15, which the Macropoxy did without issue. The only thing I don't like about the Macropoxy is that it's a flat finish. I could have used Sher-Loxane instead but I didn't feel like spending another $240 for a glossy finish when I already had the Macropoxy available to me. > The conning tower was in very good shape and required minimal wire brushing. Here again I spot coated those exposed areas with POR-15 however for the finish coat I wanted a gloss finish. While the original paint was obviously durable given it's condition, it showed dirt and scuff marks from years of people climbing in and out of the vessel. I decided I had to have a gloss finish on the conning tower but again didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars for a gallon of Sher-Loxane when I needed less than a quart, so I simply overcoated the existing finish with gloss white Rust-Oleum. We'll see how it holds up. > The K600 now has $879 (US) in paint on it. Total cost to refinish the K600 exterior and interior is $2,283 (US) including sandblasting, paint, and supplies. > Plan going forward is to let everything harden over the next week and then I can start outfitting the vessel. > > For non-Facebook members you can view the photos at http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1709412155&C=&D=Interior%20Refinishing > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 2 22:21:21 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2024 22:21:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic Interior Refinishing In-Reply-To: <194805349.3703064.1709414480407@mail.yahoo.com> References: <194805349.3703064.1709414480407.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <194805349.3703064.1709414480407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Congrats, and I can't wait to see her begin to come together! Just one thing about the Macropoxy. Although it's super durable, it does yellow even without sunlight. For a long time, each time I turned my attention to the sub for a new season I found the Macropoxy in good condition but needing a new coat just to keep it white. Now I've top-coated it, and it's stayed white. I can't recall what I used as a top coat, but it was some ordinary enamel rather than something with special marine industry prices. Even a single top-coat layer is a really good idea that will cut down on your work in the long term, if you want to keep it bright white. Best, Alec On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 4:22?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have reached a milestone with the K600, interior prep and paint finish > is complete. Total time was about three weeks spent grinding, wire > brushing, prepping, priming, and painting. > I found no significant rust issues that would cause me to call into > question the integrity of the vessel. Most of the prep work involved using > a wire brush on a grinder to loosen surface rust and feather the > surrounding paint. The worst areas were below the main viewport, beneath > the hatch area, and the bottom of the aft head. Using a wire brush cleaned > the areas easily. > The aft section of the vessel was in much better condition than the fore > section and in the aft I only spot coated the problem areas with POR-15. In > the fore section there was much more area showing surface rust and pin > prick rust spots. By the time I was done grinding them down it just seemed > to make more sense to completely prime with POR-15 rather than just spot > coat each area. > I used two coats of POR-15 as the primer and two coats of Macropoxy 646 as > the finish coat. All very expensive paint but both providing a very durable > and hard finish that I think will last a long time. I was impressed with > the POR-15. After two coats it dried hard as a rock and felt extremely > durable. I decided on an epoxy finish because I wanted something that would > stick and bond to the POR-15, which the Macropoxy did without issue. The > only thing I don't like about the Macropoxy is that it's a flat finish. I > could have used Sher-Loxane instead but I didn't feel like spending another > $240 for a glossy finish when I already had the Macropoxy available to me. > The conning tower was in very good shape and required minimal wire > brushing. Here again I spot coated those exposed areas with POR-15 however > for the finish coat I wanted a gloss finish. While the original paint was > obviously durable given it's condition, it showed dirt and scuff marks from > years of people climbing in and out of the vessel. I decided I had to have > a gloss finish on the conning tower but again didn't want to spend hundreds > of dollars for a gallon of Sher-Loxane when I needed less than a quart, so > I simply overcoated the existing finish with gloss white Rust-Oleum. We'll > see how it holds up. > The K600 now has $879 (US) in paint on it. Total cost to refinish the K600 > exterior and interior is $2,283 (US) including sandblasting, paint, and > supplies. > Plan going forward is to let everything harden over the next week and then > I can start outfitting the vessel. > > For non-Facebook members you can view the photos at > http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1709412155&C=&D=Interior%20Refinishing > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 3 12:58:39 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2024 17:58:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic Interior Refinishing In-Reply-To: References: <194805349.3703064.1709414480407.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <194805349.3703064.1709414480407@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1793073562.3905267.1709488719964@mail.yahoo.com> I'm aware it will dull and yellow in UV but didn't know it would do so outside sunlight.? I'll think about a top-coat..though I'm not sure it will bother me on the inside if it turns shade. Jon On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 10:23:14 PM EST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congrats, and I can't wait to see her begin to come together! Just one thing about the Macropoxy. Although it's super durable, it does yellow even without sunlight. For a long time, each time I turned my attention to the sub for a new season I found the?Macropoxy in good condition but needing a new coat just?to keep it white. Now I've top-coated it, and it's?stayed white. I can't recall what?I used as a?top coat, but it was some ordinary?enamel rather than something with special marine industry prices. Even a single top-coat layer is a really good idea that will cut down on your work in the long term, if you want to keep it bright white.? Best,Alec On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 4:22?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have reached a milestone with the K600, interior prep and paint finish is complete. Total time was about three weeks spent grinding, wire brushing, prepping, priming, and painting. I found no significant rust issues that would cause me to call into question the integrity of the vessel. Most of the prep work involved using a wire brush on a grinder to loosen surface rust and feather the surrounding paint. The worst areas were below the main viewport, beneath the hatch area, and the bottom of the aft head. Using a wire brush cleaned the areas easily.The aft section of the vessel was in much better condition than the fore section and in the aft I only spot coated the problem areas with POR-15. In the fore section there was much more area showing surface rust and pin prick rust spots. By the time I was done grinding them down it just seemed to make more sense to completely prime with POR-15 rather than just spot coat each area.I used two coats of POR-15 as the primer and two coats of Macropoxy 646 as the finish coat. All very expensive paint but both providing a very durable and hard finish that I think will last a long time. I was impressed with the POR-15. After two coats it dried hard as a rock and felt extremely durable. I decided on an epoxy finish because I wanted something that would stick and bond to the POR-15, which the Macropoxy did without issue. The only thing I don't like about the Macropoxy is that it's a flat finish. I could have used Sher-Loxane instead but I didn't feel like spending another $240 for a glossy finish when I already had the Macropoxy available to me.The conning tower was in very good shape and required minimal wire brushing. Here again I spot coated those exposed areas with POR-15 however for the finish coat I wanted a gloss finish. While the original paint was obviously durable given it's condition, it showed dirt and scuff marks from years of people climbing in and out of the vessel. I decided I had to have a gloss finish on the conning tower but again didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars for a gallon of Sher-Loxane when I needed less than a quart, so I simply overcoated the existing finish with gloss white Rust-Oleum. We'll see how it holds up.The K600 now has $879 (US) in paint on it. Total cost to refinish the K600 exterior and interior is $2,283 (US) including sandblasting, paint, and supplies.Plan going forward is to let everything harden over the next week and then I can start outfitting the vessel. For non-Facebook members you can view the photos at?http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/albums/index.cgi?A=1320788990&B=1709412155&C=&D=Interior%20Refinishing Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 3 13:34:49 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2024 18:34:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HP air whip References: <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589@mail.yahoo.com> Where's a good source for HP whip to connect external SCUBA tank to my 1/4 npt hull penetrator?? Are you guys using chrome SCUBA whips or hydraulic hose with SS connections? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 5 09:05:59 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2024 14:05:59 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HP air whip In-Reply-To: <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: HI Jon https://undersea-centre.com/ This is a UK company, but they are really good. Give them a call and tell them what you are trying to do and they will be able to advise. They made up a pressure reducing manifold for me. I have 2x scuba whips with male din connections both ends. The 2 hoses plug in and via a regulator, are then plumbed into 6mm 300bar swagelok pipe. I will do the same on my new boat, except i probably wont bother with the regulator as i dont really think its required. Will probably just go full HP all round. Kind Regards James On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 at 18:35, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Where's a good source for HP whip to connect external SCUBA tank to my 1/4 > npt hull penetrator? Are you guys using chrome SCUBA whips or hydraulic > hose with SS connections? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 5 09:45:28 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2024 14:45:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HP air whip In-Reply-To: References: <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1582718995.372058.1709649928984@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the response James.? I found a USA supplier at Dive Gear Express that custom make them as well.? I am still pondering whether to bring HP into the hull or put first stage balanced regulators on the tanks and bring in 150psi (or there abouts).? I'm not bothered by HP inside the vessel but LP plumbing parts such as manifolds, pipe fittings, and valves are going to be significantly cheaper and more highly available.? I'm not sure there's a real winning strategy over the other either way, but if someone wants to try to convince me I'm listening. Jon On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 09:08:27 AM EST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Jon https://undersea-centre.com/ This is a UK company, but they are really good.? Give them a call and tell them what you are trying to do and they will be able to advise. They made up a pressure reducing manifold for me.? I have 2x scuba whips with male din connections both ends.? The 2 hoses plug in and via a regulator, are then plumbed into 6mm 300bar swagelok pipe.? I will do the same on my new boat, except i probably wont bother with the regulator as i dont really think its required.? Will probably just go full HP all round. Kind Regards James On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 at 18:35, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Where's a good source for HP whip to connect external SCUBA tank to my 1/4 npt hull penetrator?? Are you guys using chrome SCUBA whips or hydraulic hose with SS connections? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 5 11:34:22 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2024 16:34:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HP air whip In-Reply-To: <1582718995.372058.1709649928984@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589@mail.yahoo.com> <1582718995.372058.1709649928984@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1977935610.435553.1709656462772@mail.yahoo.com> Jon, I used to think HP all around was the way to go and still think it is fine, but I have regulators in the water on my DDW. ?I have to say I like that for two reasons. ?One as you mention, it is cheaper and easier to manage leaks. ?The other is the air compensation system is all exterior, making it very clean and simple. ?The more stuff outside the sub the better. ?It is amazing how fast a sub can get cluttered.Hank On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 07:45:45 AM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the response James.? I found a USA supplier at Dive Gear Express that custom make them as well.? I am still pondering whether to bring HP into the hull or put first stage balanced regulators on the tanks and bring in 150psi (or there abouts).? I'm not bothered by HP inside the vessel but LP plumbing parts such as manifolds, pipe fittings, and valves are going to be significantly cheaper and more highly available.? I'm not sure there's a real winning strategy over the other either way, but if someone wants to try to convince me I'm listening. Jon On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 09:08:27 AM EST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI Jon https://undersea-centre.com/ This is a UK company, but they are really good.? Give them a call and tell them what you are trying to do and they will be able to advise. They made up a pressure reducing manifold for me.? I have 2x scuba whips with male din connections both ends.? The 2 hoses plug in and via a regulator, are then plumbed into 6mm 300bar swagelok pipe.? I will do the same on my new boat, except i probably wont bother with the regulator as i dont really think its required.? Will probably just go full HP all round. Kind Regards James On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 at 18:35, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Where's a good source for HP whip to connect external SCUBA tank to my 1/4 npt hull penetrator?? Are you guys using chrome SCUBA whips or hydraulic hose with SS connections? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 5 17:30:55 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2024 22:30:55 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] HP air whip In-Reply-To: <1582718995.372058.1709649928984@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2030122184.3903567.1709490889589@mail.yahoo.com> <1582718995.372058.1709649928984@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon - LP tubing and fittings are not necessarily cheaper than HP, as the line size comes in to play in that calculation. Do a worst-case scenario downstream demand calculation on the LP gas, and work back to what size of HP tubing would be required to deliver that at your service pressure. You might be able to get away with less substantial parts. Also, consider that any pressure reducing regulator is going to get cold in the presence of flow due to adiabatic cooling - what is the downside risk of a regulator freeze if it is outside the hull? As much as HP lines within the personnel hull can present a risk, I would want to make all equipment as accessible as possible to enable in-situ diagnosis, repair, and/or bypass. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 5, 2024, 07:45, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks for the response James. I found a USA supplier at Dive Gear Express that custom make them as well. I am still pondering whether to bring HP into the hull or put first stage balanced regulators on the tanks and bring in 150psi (or there abouts). I'm not bothered by HP inside the vessel but LP plumbing parts such as manifolds, pipe fittings, and valves are going to be significantly cheaper and more highly available. I'm not sure there's a real winning strategy over the other either way, but if someone wants to try to convince me I'm listening. > > Jon > > On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 09:08:27 AM EST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > HI Jon > > https://undersea-centre.com/ > > This is a UK company, but they are really good. Give them a call and tell them what you are trying to do and they will be able to advise. > > They made up a pressure reducing manifold for me. I have 2x scuba whips with male din connections both ends. The 2 hoses plug in and via a regulator, are then plumbed into 6mm 300bar swagelok pipe. I will do the same on my new boat, except i probably wont bother with the regulator as i dont really think its required. Will probably just go full HP all round. > > Kind Regards > James > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 at 18:35, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Where's a good source for HP whip to connect external SCUBA tank to my 1/4 npt hull penetrator? Are you guys using chrome SCUBA whips or hydraulic hose with SS connections? >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 13 22:13:56 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 02:13:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless thruster review References: <1345480608.4524953.1710382436648.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1345480608.4524953.1710382436648@mail.yahoo.com> Hi people,have finally found a brushless thruster I am happy with?US 300- plus freight.I have done a video review of it on the Psubs fb page.Plus posted some stats.A few little things to change on it & I will probably change out the motor controller as I want additional functions.There are 2 reviews of it on youtube where it is pushing a 1 ton yacht at 4.5 knots into a wind.AlanUpdate on Max 350 Electric Outboard on Jaguar 21 with two 48Lion 50ah and Ebike Dual Load Balancer | | | | | | | | | | | Update on Max 350 Electric Outboard on Jaguar 21 with two 48Lion 50ah and Ebike Dual Load Balancer | | | | Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 12:52:16 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 16:52:16 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Message-ID: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 13:16:05 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 17:16:05 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi: > > I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 13:18:23 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 17:18:23 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson wrote: > Hello Jeff. > > A few important resources for you to check out: > > 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. > > https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf > > 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw > > https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 > > 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) > > https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf > > As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi: >> >> I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jeff >> >> Jefferson Tortorelli >> >> Tortorelli Creations >> >> 4910 Santa Anita Avenue >> >> El Monte, CA 91731 >> >> Cell: 909-908-3795 >> >> Shop: 909-370-3131 >> >> Website: www.Tortorelli.com >> >> Instagram: @tortorellicreations -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 14:20:45 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 18:20:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1408650231.5627324.1710613245187@mail.yahoo.com> Hello Jeff, and welcome to the group.? I concur with Sean's recommendations and also his assessment of commercially available viewports.? If you are planning on just working with flat viewports you will find an easier path than fabricating domes.? We can hook you up with an acrylic supplier when you are ready for material. Jon On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 01:20:26 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi: ? I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. ? Thanks, ? Jeff ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 14:25:32 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 18:25:32 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 14:29:16 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 18:29:16 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <1408650231.5627324.1710613245187@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1408650231.5627324.1710613245187@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jon: I just responded to Sean regarding his information on the viewports. The design I have come up with are for flat viewports, but they are not round. I have some preliminary design drawings and told Sean I am a little embarrassed to share as they are not quite like what you guys are building. I am more interested in the design and build and maybe (at this point) ability to dive to 300 feet. I am currently in process of building a full scale mockup in plywood to really see if I like the design and if it will accommodate what I want. Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 11:21 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Hello Jeff, and welcome to the group. I concur with Sean's recommendations and also his assessment of commercially available viewports. If you are planning on just working with flat viewports you will find an easier path than fabricating domes. We can hook you up with an acrylic supplier when you are ready for material. Jon On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 01:20:26 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 14:40:21 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 18:40:21 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36sznZ_VX6zlYOhv1HbhKGFJ56V1H16BPdEhu8oZabrUoFGHNuhIjl2IjR_SgmmZZ0bACLwCebJRyU7jLsRADG-Pa-VlE1eyplG03GBvtAc=@protonmail.com> I would strongly advise you to use a viewport design which is consistent with approved geometries. Standards don't arrive by chance. They are informed by engineering experience, and by the study of past accidents. Remember, it is just as easy to drown in 6 feet of water as it is to drown in 6000. A vehicle designed for shallow operating depths can generally have a thinner pressure boundary than a vehicle designed for deeper depths, but that is about the only substantive difference. Shallow doesn't mean you can cut corners. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 12:25, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. > > I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. > > I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! > > Jeff > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Jeff. >> >> A few important resources for you to check out: >> >> 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. >> >> https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf >> >> 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw >> >> https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 >> >> 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) >> >> https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf >> >> As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi: >>> >>> I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> Jefferson Tortorelli >>> >>> Tortorelli Creations >>> >>> 4910 Santa Anita Avenue >>> >>> El Monte, CA 91731 >>> >>> Cell: 909-908-3795 >>> >>> Shop: 909-370-3131 >>> >>> Website: www.Tortorelli.com >>> >>> Instagram: @tortorellicreations -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 14:47:23 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 18:47:23 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <36sznZ_VX6zlYOhv1HbhKGFJ56V1H16BPdEhu8oZabrUoFGHNuhIjl2IjR_SgmmZZ0bACLwCebJRyU7jLsRADG-Pa-VlE1eyplG03GBvtAc=@protonmail.com> References: <36sznZ_VX6zlYOhv1HbhKGFJ56V1H16BPdEhu8oZabrUoFGHNuhIjl2IjR_SgmmZZ0bACLwCebJRyU7jLsRADG-Pa-VlE1eyplG03GBvtAc=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Probably pretty good advice. The configuration on my sub is easily changed at this point. I am going to purchase the books you recommended. Thanks much! Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 11:40 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.orgprobably Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports I would strongly advise you to use a viewport design which is consistent with approved geometries. Standards don't arrive by chance. They are informed by engineering experience, and by the study of past accidents. Remember, it is just as easy to drown in 6 feet of water as it is to drown in 6000. A vehicle designed for shallow operating depths can generally have a thinner pressure boundary than a vehicle designed for deeper depths, but that is about the only substantive difference. Shallow doesn't mean you can cut corners. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 12:25, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles > On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 15:28:46 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 15:28:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <820E3E43-E9CB-44FE-AEAC-F849C96A6676@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 15:36:18 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 15:36:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <36sznZ_VX6zlYOhv1HbhKGFJ56V1H16BPdEhu8oZabrUoFGHNuhIjl2IjR_SgmmZZ0bACLwCebJRyU7jLsRADG-Pa-VlE1eyplG03GBvtAc=@protonmail.com> References: <36sznZ_VX6zlYOhv1HbhKGFJ56V1H16BPdEhu8oZabrUoFGHNuhIjl2IjR_SgmmZZ0bACLwCebJRyU7jLsRADG-Pa-VlE1eyplG03GBvtAc=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <99FA85B8-376A-476D-BBA9-619A6E6BE33D@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 15:48:47 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 19:48:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013510579.5644245.1710618527024@mail.yahoo.com> Just FYI, Hank abandoned the epoxy viewport project because they shattered without warning, as I recall.? Perhaps he can comment further as to why he abandoned it.? I think that you will find we urge using known accepted standards for fabrication for 1-ATM vessels.? As Sean has alluded to, your submarine can easily become your coffin and the best way to prevent that is to build to accepted standards.? That doesn't mean there isn't room for innovation, however the cost of testing to destruction innovative designs is a time consuming and expensive path. We aren't trying to discourage you, just setting the "safety" tone since we are big on that here.? You might be well served to let is look at your design...we can point out issues that might be concerning and why you might find them so.? There's plenty of room for a non-traditional vessel that follows accepted design practices and you might inspire someone else to use your design. Jon On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 02:29:12 PM EDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. ? I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. ? I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! ? Jeff ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports ? It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: ? Hi: ? I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. ? Thanks, ? Jeff ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 15:50:37 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 15:50:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 16:50:30 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 15:50:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <1013510579.5644245.1710618527024@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1013510579.5644245.1710618527024@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 16:54:11 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 13:54:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> References: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: <3B647882-A9A4-42FB-B9BD-217C696483E0@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 17:23:28 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 21:23:28 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> References: <1013510579.5644245.1710618527024@mail.yahoo.com> <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: thanks Greg! Do I just send design attached to email? Seems like a lot of people get these communications. Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:51 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Wow Jeff! I just went to your website. Incredible! If your sub building is anything like your woodworking, we are all in for a wonderful treat! Awesome stuff for sure! Best personal regards, Greg On Mar 16, 2024, at 2:50?PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ? Just FYI, Hank abandoned the epoxy viewport project because they shattered without warning, as I recall. Perhaps he can comment further as to why he abandoned it. I think that you will find we urge using known accepted standards for fabrication for 1-ATM vessels. As Sean has alluded to, your submarine can easily become your coffin and the best way to prevent that is to build to accepted standards. That doesn't mean there isn't room for innovation, however the cost of testing to destruction innovative designs is a time consuming and expensive path. We aren't trying to discourage you, just setting the "safety" tone since we are big on that here. You might be well served to let is look at your design...we can point out issues that might be concerning and why you might find them so. There's plenty of room for a non-traditional vessel that follows accepted design practices and you might inspire someone else to use your design. Jon On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 02:29:12 PM EDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles > On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 17:29:44 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 21:29:44 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <3B647882-A9A4-42FB-B9BD-217C696483E0@gmail.com> References: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> <3B647882-A9A4-42FB-B9BD-217C696483E0@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is my preliminary design. No portholes drawn in. want to have viewports both sides front top and bottom for a total of four viewports. Interior allows two seats side by side. Still a lot of thinking to do. I know the vessel shape is probably not ideal but I kind of based it on our stealth bombers because I liked the look. I am not at this time planning on any great depths. Plan to build with ? ? steel plate. Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731vessel Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:54 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports +1 to Greg?s comment- The work on that website is remarkable! Welcome to the group from a fellow Californian, though I am a non-builder at present. ? John Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2024, at 13:51, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ? Wow Jeff! I just went to your website. Incredible! If your sub building is anything like your woodworking, we are all in for a wonderful treat! Awesome stuff for sure! Best personal regards, Greg On Mar 16, 2024, at 2:50?PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ? Just FYI, Hank abandoned the epoxy viewport project because they shattered without warning, as I recall. Perhaps he can comment further as to why he abandoned it. I think that you will find we urge using known accepted standards for fabrication for 1-ATM vessels. As Sean has alluded to, your submarine can easily become your coffin and the best way to prevent that is to build to accepted standards. That doesn't mean there isn't room for innovation, however the cost of testing to destruction innovative designs is a time consuming and expensive path. We aren't trying to discourage you, just setting the "safety" tone since we are big on that here. You might be well served to let is look at your design...we can point out issues that might be concerning and why you might find them so. There's plenty of room for a non-traditional vessel that follows accepted design practices and you might inspire someone else to use your design. Jon On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 02:29:12 PM EDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles > On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: submarineV3a-screenshot4-WIP.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 369285 bytes Desc: submarineV3a-screenshot4-WIP.jpg URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 17:37:32 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 21:37:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <862505604.5659420.1710625052617@mail.yahoo.com> Jeff, I concur with Jon, Sean, and Alec for all the reasons they note.? Stick with PVHO design for viewports.? Calculations for the viewports are straightforward to understand.? It is kind of nice to sit in a Psub at 300 ft and look out a viewport that has been designed according to PVHO rules and not have to worry about the mechanical integrity of the viewport.? The typical factor of safety of a PVHO viewport is on the order of 4-5. Don't know where you live but a good starting point for designing a 1-atm Psub is to attend a PSub or IS diving event and look at boats and ask lots of questions.? Hopefully, we will have at least one PSub and/or IS event this year. Cliff On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 11:53:00 AM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi: ? I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. ? Thanks, ? Jeff ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 17:42:15 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 21:42:15 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <862505604.5659420.1710625052617@mail.yahoo.com> References: <862505604.5659420.1710625052617@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I will adhere to those standards. Thank you all for your input. I would really enjoy attending a PSUB or IS diving event. Is that information sent out automatically? I live in Southern California Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations So far From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 2:38 PM To: Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Jeff, I concur with Jon, Sean, and Alec for all the reasons they note. Stick with PVHO design for viewports. Calculations for the viewports are straightforward to understand. It is kind of nice to sit in a Psub at 300 ft and look out a viewport that has been designed according to PVHO rules and not have to worry about the mechanical integrity of the viewport. The typical factor of safety of a PVHO viewport is on the order of 4-5. Don't know where you live but a good starting point for designing a 1-atm Psub is to attend a PSub or IS diving event and look at boats and ask lots of questions. Hopefully, we will have at least one PSub and/or IS event this year. Cliff On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 11:53:00 AM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 17:44:00 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 21:44:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> <3B647882-A9A4-42FB-B9BD-217C696483E0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <843077890.5657758.1710625440595@mail.yahoo.com> Flat plates are going to cause issues with the pressure hull.? Don't think ABS is going to be happy.? Make sure you do non-linear FEA buckling calculations.? You are not going to be able to go very deep with this design because of the flat surfaces.?? Does look nice! Cliff On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 04:30:27 PM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This is my preliminary design. No portholes drawn in. want to have viewports both sides front top and bottom for a total of four viewports. Interior allows two seats side by side. Still a lot of thinking to do. I know the vessel shape is probably not ideal but I kind of based it on our stealth bombers because I liked the look. I am not at this time planning on any great depths. Plan to build with ? ? steel plate. ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731vessel Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:54 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports ? +1 to Greg?s comment- The work on that website is remarkable! ? Welcome to the group from a fellow Californian, though I am a non-builder at present.? ? John Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2024, at 13:51, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Wow Jeff! I just went to your website.? Incredible! ? If your sub building is anything like your woodworking, we are all in for a wonderful treat! ?Awesome stuff for sure!? Best personal regards,? Greg? On Mar 16, 2024, at 2:50?PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Just FYI, Hank abandoned the epoxy viewport project because they shattered without warning, as I recall.? Perhaps he can comment further as to why he abandoned it.? I think that you will find we urge using known accepted standards for fabrication for 1-ATM vessels.? As Sean has alluded to, your submarine can easily become your coffin and the best way to prevent that is to build to accepted standards.? That doesn't mean there isn't room for innovation, however the cost of testing to destruction innovative designs is a time consuming and expensive path. ? We aren't trying to discourage you, just setting the "safety" tone since we are big on that here.? You might be well served to let is look at your design...we can point out issues that might be concerning and why you might find them so.? There's plenty of room for a non-traditional vessel that follows accepted design practices and you might inspire someone else to use your design. ? Jon ? ? On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 02:29:12 PM EDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. ? I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. ? I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! ? Jeff ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website:www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports ? It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: ? Hi: ? I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. ? Thanks, ? Jeff ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website:www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 17:44:13 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 21:44:13 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> <3B647882-A9A4-42FB-B9BD-217C696483E0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Neat aesthetic, but poorly suited to resisting external pressure, unless what we see in that drawing is an outer fairing hull which encompasses an unseen inner pressure hull. What CAD package are you using? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 15:29, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > This is my preliminary design. No portholes drawn in. want to have viewports both sides front top and bottom for a total of four viewports. Interior allows two seats side by side. Still a lot of thinking to do. I know the vessel shape is probably not ideal but I kind of based it on our stealth bombers because I liked the look. I am not at this time planning on any great depths. Plan to build with ? ? steel plate. > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731vessel > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:54 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > +1 to Greg?s comment- The work on that website is remarkable! > > Welcome to the group from a fellow Californian, though I am a non-builder at present. ? > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 16, 2024, at 13:51, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> ? >> >> Wow Jeff! >> >> I just went to your website. >> >> Incredible! >> >> If your sub building is anything like your woodworking, we are all in for a wonderful treat! Awesome stuff for sure! >> >> Best personal regards, >> >> Greg >> >>> On Mar 16, 2024, at 2:50?PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> ? >>> >>> Just FYI, Hank abandoned the epoxy viewport project because they shattered without warning, as I recall. Perhaps he can comment further as to why he abandoned it. I think that you will find we urge using known accepted standards for fabrication for 1-ATM vessels. As Sean has alluded to, your submarine can easily become your coffin and the best way to prevent that is to build to accepted standards. That doesn't mean there isn't room for innovation, however the cost of testing to destruction innovative designs is a time consuming and expensive path. >>> >>> We aren't trying to discourage you, just setting the "safety" tone since we are big on that here. You might be well served to let is look at your design...we can point out issues that might be concerning and why you might find them so. There's plenty of room for a non-traditional vessel that follows accepted design practices and you might inspire someone else to use your design. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 02:29:12 PM EDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. >>> >>> I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. >>> >>> I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> Jefferson Tortorelli >>> >>> Tortorelli Creations >>> >>> 4910 Santa Anita Avenue >>> >>> El Monte, CA 91731 >>> >>> Cell: 909-908-3795 >>> >>> Shop: 909-370-3131 >>> >>> Website: www.Tortorelli.com >>> >>> Instagram: @tortorellicreations >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports >>> >>> It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. >>> >>> Sean >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Jeff. >>>> >>>> A few important resources for you to check out: >>>> >>>> 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. >>>> >>>> https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf >>>> >>>> 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw >>>> >>>> https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 >>>> >>>> 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) >>>> >>>> https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf >>>> >>>> As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi: >>>>> >>>>> I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Jeff >>>>> >>>>> Jefferson Tortorelli >>>>> >>>>> Tortorelli Creations >>>>> >>>>> 4910 Santa Anita Avenue >>>>> >>>>> El Monte, CA 91731 >>>>> >>>>> Cell: 909-908-3795 >>>>> >>>>> Shop: 909-370-3131 >>>>> >>>>> Website: www.Tortorelli.com >>>>> >>>>> Instagram: @tortorellicreations >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 17:48:49 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 21:48:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <862505604.5659420.1710625052617@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330833256.5665996.1710625729214@mail.yahoo.com> Jef, the historical process is for Jon Wallace for PSubs and Alec Smyth for InnerspaceScience.org to review possible sites then when things solidify, post the date and locations to Psubs and IS sites to see how many are interested in attending and who would be bringing their boats. Best On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 04:42:50 PM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I will adhere to those standards. Thank you all for your input. I would really enjoy attending a PSUB or IS diving event. Is that information sent out automatically? I live in Southern California ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? So far From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 2:38 PM To: Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports ? Jeff, I concur with Jon, Sean, and Alec for all the reasons they note.? Stick with PVHO design for viewports.? Calculations for the viewports are straightforward to understand.? It is kind of nice to sit in a Psub at 300 ft and look out a viewport that has been designed according to PVHO rules and not have to worry about the mechanical integrity of the viewport.? The typical factor of safety of a PVHO viewport is on the order of 4-5. ? Don't know where you live but a good starting point for designing a 1-atm Psub is to attend a PSub or IS diving event and look at boats and ask lots of questions.? Hopefully, we will have at least one PSub and/or IS event this year. ? Cliff ? On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 11:53:00 AM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi: ? I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. ? Thanks, ? Jeff ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website:www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 17:50:10 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 21:50:10 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> <3B647882-A9A4-42FB-B9BD-217C696483E0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Figured I would need internal structure. Rhino is program Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 2:44 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Neat aesthetic, but poorly suited to resisting external pressure, unless what we see in that drawing is an outer fairing hull which encompasses an unseen inner pressure hull. What CAD package are you using? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 15:29, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: This is my preliminary design. No portholes drawn in. want to have viewports both sides front top and bottom for a total of four viewports. Interior allows two seats side by side. Still a lot of thinking to do. I know the vessel shape is probably not ideal but I kind of based it on our stealth bombers because I liked the look. I am not at this time planning on any great depths. Plan to build with ? ? steel plate. Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731vessel Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles > On Behalf Of John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:54 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports +1 to Greg?s comment- The work on that website is remarkable! Welcome to the group from a fellow Californian, though I am a non-builder at present. ? John Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2024, at 13:51, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ? Wow Jeff! I just went to your website. Incredible! If your sub building is anything like your woodworking, we are all in for a wonderful treat! Awesome stuff for sure! Best personal regards, Greg On Mar 16, 2024, at 2:50?PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ? Just FYI, Hank abandoned the epoxy viewport project because they shattered without warning, as I recall. Perhaps he can comment further as to why he abandoned it. I think that you will find we urge using known accepted standards for fabrication for 1-ATM vessels. As Sean has alluded to, your submarine can easily become your coffin and the best way to prevent that is to build to accepted standards. That doesn't mean there isn't room for innovation, however the cost of testing to destruction innovative designs is a time consuming and expensive path. We aren't trying to discourage you, just setting the "safety" tone since we are big on that here. You might be well served to let is look at your design...we can point out issues that might be concerning and why you might find them so. There's plenty of room for a non-traditional vessel that follows accepted design practices and you might inspire someone else to use your design. Jon On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 02:29:12 PM EDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles > On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have been numbered 1, 2, and 3. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: Hello Jeff. A few important resources for you to check out: 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 18:48:58 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 12:48:58 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> <3B647882-A9A4-42FB-B9BD-217C696483E0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff and welcome to this wonderful group. Your design is neat looking but the mention of non rounded viewports and the flat surfaces on your boat I think are problematic. Just to maybe explain why the others are saying to build to the rules is because a round object is much stronger than a flat surface as the stress is equal all around. I was in the steel industry for many years and learned how stress travels through steel and corners are where the stress has to make a sharp turn and that is usually where metal breaks which they call a notch effect but Sean would be the best to talk about that. Good luck and keep us all up to date as you move along. You're in good hands! Rick On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 11:53?AM Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Figured I would need internal structure. Rhino is program > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, March 16, 2024 2:44 PM > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > > > Neat aesthetic, but poorly suited to resisting external pressure, unless > what we see in that drawing is an outer fairing hull which encompasses an > unseen inner pressure hull. > > What CAD package are you using? > > Sean > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 16, 2024, 15:29, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > This is my preliminary design. No portholes drawn in. want to have > viewports both sides front top and bottom for a total of four viewports. > Interior allows two seats side by side. Still a lot of thinking to do. I > know the vessel shape is probably not ideal but I kind of based it on our > stealth bombers because I liked the look. I am not at this time planning on > any great depths. Plan to build with ? ? steel plate. > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731vessel > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:54 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > > > +1 to Greg?s comment- The work on that website is remarkable! > > > > Welcome to the group from a fellow Californian, though I am a non-builder > at present. ? > > > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Mar 16, 2024, at 13:51, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > > Wow Jeff! > > I just went to your website. > > Incredible! > > If your sub building is anything like your woodworking, we are all in for > a wonderful treat! Awesome stuff for sure! > > Best personal regards, > > Greg > > > > On Mar 16, 2024, at 2:50?PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > > Just FYI, Hank abandoned the epoxy viewport project because they shattered > without warning, as I recall. Perhaps he can comment further as to why he > abandoned it. I think that you will find we urge using known accepted > standards for fabrication for 1-ATM vessels. As Sean has alluded to, your > submarine can easily become your coffin and the best way to prevent that is > to build to accepted standards. That doesn't mean there isn't room for > innovation, however the cost of testing to destruction innovative designs > is a time consuming and expensive path. > > > > We aren't trying to discourage you, just setting the "safety" tone since > we are big on that here. You might be well served to let is look at your > design...we can point out issues that might be concerning and why you might > find them so. There's plenty of room for a non-traditional vessel that > follows accepted design practices and you might inspire someone else to use > your design. > > > > Jon > > > > > > On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 02:29:12 PM EDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or > most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite > helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a > submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at > this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a > preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as > it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. > > > > I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy > viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. > > > > I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! > > > > Jeff > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > > > It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have > been numbered 1, 2, and 3. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < > sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: > > > Hello Jeff. > > A few important resources for you to check out: > > 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and > Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. > > > https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf > > 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and > aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw > > > https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 > > 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), > published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) > > > https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf > > As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of > acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will > inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell > you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can > achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of > PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA > material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and > then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the > commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a > two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic > viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jeff > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 16 19:27:05 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 19:27:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <3868635D-C798-4D63-9830-3E2E528E0BBB@snyderemail.com> <3B647882-A9A4-42FB-B9BD-217C696483E0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff, I actually really like the appearance, but here's why flat surfaces and straight lines do not work for pressure vessels. Visualize the pressure on two flat plates that are joined along a straight line at their edges. External pressure will tend to deform a flat surface inward, with maximum deformation at its center. And what happens at the straight line where they are joined? Each plate, as it deforms inwards at its center, can also be thought of as rotating around that edge. That concentrates stresses tremendously along the sharply joined edges. Its as if you took a sheet of thin plastic or aluminum sheet and bent it along a straight line. Do that back and forth a few times and you'll be left holding two pieces of sheet. What you want is to design the entire pressure envelope out of shapes that distribute stress as evenly as possible. In order of decreasing desirability that means spheres, cylinders, cones, and flat surfaces. Flat surfaces, being the structurally least desirable shape of all, are almost never seen on a sub. Thanks, Alec On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 5:53?PM Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Figured I would need internal structure. Rhino is program > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, March 16, 2024 2:44 PM > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > > > Neat aesthetic, but poorly suited to resisting external pressure, unless > what we see in that drawing is an outer fairing hull which encompasses an > unseen inner pressure hull. > > What CAD package are you using? > > Sean > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 16, 2024, 15:29, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > This is my preliminary design. No portholes drawn in. want to have > viewports both sides front top and bottom for a total of four viewports. > Interior allows two seats side by side. Still a lot of thinking to do. I > know the vessel shape is probably not ideal but I kind of based it on our > stealth bombers because I liked the look. I am not at this time planning on > any great depths. Plan to build with ? ? steel plate. > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731vessel > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:54 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > > > +1 to Greg?s comment- The work on that website is remarkable! > > > > Welcome to the group from a fellow Californian, though I am a non-builder > at present. ? > > > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Mar 16, 2024, at 13:51, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > > Wow Jeff! > > I just went to your website. > > Incredible! > > If your sub building is anything like your woodworking, we are all in for > a wonderful treat! Awesome stuff for sure! > > Best personal regards, > > Greg > > > > On Mar 16, 2024, at 2:50?PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > > Just FYI, Hank abandoned the epoxy viewport project because they shattered > without warning, as I recall. Perhaps he can comment further as to why he > abandoned it. I think that you will find we urge using known accepted > standards for fabrication for 1-ATM vessels. As Sean has alluded to, your > submarine can easily become your coffin and the best way to prevent that is > to build to accepted standards. That doesn't mean there isn't room for > innovation, however the cost of testing to destruction innovative designs > is a time consuming and expensive path. > > > > We aren't trying to discourage you, just setting the "safety" tone since > we are big on that here. You might be well served to let is look at your > design...we can point out issues that might be concerning and why you might > find them so. There's plenty of room for a non-traditional vessel that > follows accepted design practices and you might inspire someone else to use > your design. > > > > Jon > > > > > > On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 02:29:12 PM EDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Sean. I have spent a good part of this morning reviewing all or > most of the posts by your members. Lots of information that is really quite > helpful. I know that of the two types of people interested in building a > submersible, I fit the group that loves the build and don?t think I (at > this point) care to dive deeper than 300 feet. It is the build. I have a > preliminary design drawing. I actually am a little embarrassed to share as > it certainly differs from what I have seen you guys doing. > > > > I did read something this morning about Pronk making/casting epoxy > viewports and a link to a epoxy supplier. > > > > I will continue my research which I find quite interesting! > > > > Jeff > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:18 AM > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > > > It appears that I misnumbered those resources, which should obviously have > been numbered 1, 2, and 3. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 16, 2024, 11:16, Sean T. Stevenson < > sean.t.stevenson at protonmail.com> wrote: > > > Hello Jeff. > > A few important resources for you to check out: > > 1) Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and > Hyperbaric Facilities - American Bureau of Shipping. > > > https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/special_service/7-rules-for-building-and-classing-underwater-vehicles,-systems-and-hyperbaric-facilities-2024/7-uwvs-rules-jan24.pdf > > 1) Handbook of acrylics for submersibles, hyperbaric chambers, and > aquaria. - Jerry D. Stachiw > > > https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Acrylics-Submersibles-Hyperbaric-Chambers/dp/1930536151 > > 2) Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy (PVHO-1), > published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) > > > https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/pvho-1-safety-standard-pressure-vessels-human-occupancy/2023/drm-enabled-pdf > > As for manufacturers, an internet search will likely reveal a number of > acrylic suppliers who will manufacture viewports. Purchasing will > inevitably be more expensive than DIY, because a manufacturer can only sell > you a PVHO-1 certified viewport for liability reasons. For a PSub, you can > achieve the intent without the exhaustive documentation requirements of > PVHO-1 by designing to the standard, using the correct slush cast PMMA > material, following the appropriate annealing schedule after forming, and > then by subsequently testing. Per the PSubs ethos, comply with the > commercial rules as far as is possible / practicable. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 16, 2024, 10:52, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a > two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic > viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jeff > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 06:51:39 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 10:51:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jeff, Hank Pronk here. ?I did do some testing with epoxy as a material for fabricating domes. ?I did destructive testing and cycle testing. ?Although the material stood up compared to acrylic in destructive tests, I had some real concerns with the cycle test results. ?After a few thousand cycles, the Epoxy was deflecting (bending) ?by .040 inches ?more than the starting point. ?I am not qualified to comment on whether that is okay or not. ?Had all testing continued to compare with acrylic I may have continued. ?I would not attempt to use Epoxy to fabricate ports. ?? When designing your sub, you must consider how you will use it and where. ?Once you decide where the sub will be operating, check for launch points and measure the water depth at those point. ?Design the sub so it can float off a ?standard boat trailer. ? Hank On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 10:52:36 AM MDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi: ? I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. ? Thanks, ? Jeff ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 13:00:02 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 17:00:02 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, when you did the epoxy dome experiment, did you happen to notice whether that 0.040" was due to deformation of the dome, versus extrusion / creep right at the seat? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 17, 2024, 04:51, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Jeff, Hank Pronk here. I did do some testing with epoxy as a material for fabricating domes. I did destructive testing and cycle testing. Although the material stood up compared to acrylic in destructive tests, I had some real concerns with the cycle test results. After a few thousand cycles, the Epoxy was deflecting (bending) by .040 inches more than the starting point. I am not qualified to comment on whether that is okay or not. Had all testing continued to compare with acrylic I may have continued. I would not attempt to use Epoxy to fabricate ports. > > When designing your sub, you must consider how you will use it and where. Once you decide where the sub will be operating, check for launch points and measure the water depth at those point. Design the sub so it can float off a standard boat trailer. > > Hank > > On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 10:52:36 AM MDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi: > > I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 13:23:19 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 17:23:19 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank: I must start off telling you I recently discovered your youtube videos and have watched them all several times. It is through you that I discovered PSUB.org. Many thanks. Until I read in some old threads on psub that you were working on epoxy viewports, I had been thinking about pouring my own acrylic. I will stick with that. Some of the other guys have recommended some really good resource books which I am going to purchase. Initially the submarine I want to build would be for no more than 300 foot depth. Primarily lake diving. I live pretty close to the ocean but would have to do some research as to locations I could launch and dive. The advice about the boat trailer is the way to go. Otherwise I had thought about building some retractable wheels where I could roll the sub down off the trailer. Not that far yet. I have been advised by a few members that the flat panel design of my sub doesn?t lend itself to depth. The original design had a cylindrical pressure chamber but I removed that for more room inside. I thought if I used ?? steel plate with interior ribs that would suffice for pressure. Evidently I am wrong on that so I will go back to the drawing board. Thanks again for your response. Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 3:52 AM To: Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Hi Jeff, Hank Pronk here. I did do some testing with epoxy as a material for fabricating domes. I did destructive testing and cycle testing. Although the material stood up compared to acrylic in destructive tests, I had some real concerns with the cycle test results. After a few thousand cycles, the Epoxy was deflecting (bending) by .040 inches more than the starting point. I am not qualified to comment on whether that is okay or not. Had all testing continued to compare with acrylic I may have continued. I would not attempt to use Epoxy to fabricate ports. When designing your sub, you must consider how you will use it and where. Once you decide where the sub will be operating, check for launch points and measure the water depth at those point. Design the sub so it can float off a standard boat trailer. Hank On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 10:52:36 AM MDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi: I am new to this organization and am currently in the design phase of a two person submersible. I am looking for information on obtaining acrylic viewports or learning (if possible) how to fabricate my own. Thanks, Jeff Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 15:25:43 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 19:25:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jeff, welcome along. Keep the questions coming and if you dont get a satisfactory reply try again. This is a helpful and experienced group.?I have never heard of any home builder casting their own acrylic domes or view ports. It could be happening with the improvements in technology and products available.You would need to build an inner & outer mold & let it set very slowly for the thickness involved.?When they pioneered acrylic dome casting they had a sprue at the apex of the dome for sucking material from during its shinkage while setting. And a lot of failures.It also involves post molding machining & clean up. Also you will need a large enough computer controlled oven to ramp up & down the temperature at around 1 degree per hour.Most people that attempt a home made dome will have it blown. But again you need to control the temperature increase.Regards Alan. ? Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 6:25 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 15:33:29 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 19:33:29 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually not thinking of a dome but rather flat view ports. I have a cnc (primarily for my woodworking) and can machine a two part mold quite easily Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Fax: Please send PDF Website: Tortorelli.com ________________________________ From: Personal_Submersibles on behalf of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 12:25:43 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Hi Jeff, welcome along. Keep the questions coming and if you dont get a satisfactory reply try again. This is a helpful and experienced group. I have never heard of any home builder casting their own acrylic domes or view ports. It could be happening with the improvements in technology and products available. You would need to build an inner & outer mold & let it set very slowly for the thickness involved. When they pioneered acrylic dome casting they had a sprue at the apex of the dome for sucking material from during its shinkage while setting. And a lot of failures. It also involves post molding machining & clean up. Also you will need a large enough computer controlled oven to ramp up & down the temperature at around 1 degree per hour. Most people that attempt a home made dome will have it blown. But again you need to control the temperature increase. Regards Alan. Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 6:25 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 15:45:37 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 19:45:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <892994139.5864768.1710704737860@mail.yahoo.com> Jeff,If you have experience with resin pouring on your furniture you will be in a good place.?Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 16:20:41 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 20:20:41 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <892994139.5864768.1710704737860@mail.yahoo.com> References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> <892994139.5864768.1710704737860@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have already received some great advice and realize some of you are beyond my knowledge base with regards to hull design. Several members have indicated my flat plate hull is not really great for depth. Not to be obtuse, but what if I had interior ribs spaced closely with a circular cut out, basically kind of a square rib with a donut hole in the center. I originally was going to have a cylindrical pressure hull inside but wanted more room. Is it possible to build my design if I added enough ribs? Plus initially, based on my lack of knowledge, the outer hull that surrounded the pressure was also dry and contained the motor, air tanks, ballast tanks, etc. I now realize that wouldn?t work with flat plates alone. How do you determine the pressure a hull will withstand. in my searching the internet, I see a number of vessels made using propane tanks. Is that viable? Any suggestions? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 12:46 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Jeff, If you have experience with resin pouring on your furniture you will be in a good place. Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 17:02:18 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 21:02:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> <892994139.5864768.1710704737860@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2070967509.5906046.1710709339000@mail.yahoo.com> Stiffined pressure hull as you describe helps but not enough.? You also reach a point on small submersibles that you have to add so much weight with stiffeners and shell thickness that you no longer have enough buoyancy to get neutral.? This drives you to a larger displacement and then the cost goes exponential with size. To determine what a pressure hull can withstand, if you use a typical submersible stiffened cylindrical shell with either semi-elliptical or hemispherical heads, then you can download the Psub ABS stress calculator to determine the maximum operating depth that ABS would approve.? If it is a non-standard pressure hull like you are looking at then you need a finite element analysis (FEA) of pressure hull.? Typically this is done with a linear solver for the first pass and a non-linear version to look at buckling analysis thereafter.? If it is a non-standard pressure hull, ABS would also require multiple prototypes of the hull to be fabricated and depth tested in a pressure chamber with strain gages installed at key locations where FEA calculates high stresses.? This level of analysis is normally more than most psubbers want to undertake and thus they migrate back to one of the approved hull configurations. If you want to stay with the stealth concept, you could build a dry ambient boat.? Then these stress-related issues go away as the pressure inside the boat is the same as ambient water pressure.? The problem with dry-ambient boats of course is the safety-related ones known to scuba divers but amplified because of the boat's ability to move within the water volume much faster. Cliff On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 03:21:17 PM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have already received some great advice and realize some of you are beyond my knowledge base with regards to hull design. Several members have indicated my flat plate hull is not really great for depth. Not to be obtuse, but what if I had interior ribs spaced closely with a circular cut out, basically kind of a square rib with a donut hole in the center. I originally was going to have a cylindrical pressure hull inside but wanted more room. Is it possible to build my design if I added enough ribs? Plus initially, based on my lack of knowledge, the outer hull that surrounded the pressure was also dry and contained the motor, air tanks, ballast tanks, etc. I now realize that wouldn?t work with flat plates alone. ? How do you determine the pressure a hull will withstand. in my searching the internet, I see a number of vessels made using propane tanks. Is that viable? Any suggestions? ? ? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations ? ? From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 12:46 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports ? Jeff, If you have experience with resin pouring on your furniture you will be in a good place.? Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer ? On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 17:37:02 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 21:37:02 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <2070967509.5906046.1710709339000@mail.yahoo.com> References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> <892994139.5864768.1710704737860@mail.yahoo.com> <2070967509.5906046.1710709339000@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good call with the dry ambient suggestion Cliff. Jeff - are you a certified diver? Ambient subs allow for a lot of design flexibility because you don't have to design a hull that will withstand any significant pressure differential, but then of course, you are effectively diving when operating your sub and will be limited to SCUBA depths, time limits, and permissible descent and ascent rates. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 17, 2024, 15:02, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Stiffined pressure hull as you describe helps but not enough. You also reach a point on small submersibles that you have to add so much weight with stiffeners and shell thickness that you no longer have enough buoyancy to get neutral. This drives you to a larger displacement and then the cost goes exponential with size. > > To determine what a pressure hull can withstand, if you use a typical submersible stiffened cylindrical shell with either semi-elliptical or hemispherical heads, then you can download the Psub ABS stress calculator to determine the maximum operating depth that ABS would approve. If it is a non-standard pressure hull like you are looking at then you need a finite element analysis (FEA) of pressure hull. Typically this is done with a linear solver for the first pass and a non-linear version to look at buckling analysis thereafter. If it is a non-standard pressure hull, ABS would also require multiple prototypes of the hull to be fabricated and depth tested in a pressure chamber with strain gages installed at key locations where FEA calculates high stresses. This level of analysis is normally more than most psubbers want to undertake and thus they migrate back to one of the approved hull configurations. > > If you want to stay with the stealth concept, you could build a dry ambient boat. Then these stress-related issues go away as the pressure inside the boat is the same as ambient water pressure. The problem with dry-ambient boats of course is the safety-related ones known to scuba divers but amplified because of the boat's ability to move within the water volume much faster. > > Cliff > > On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 03:21:17 PM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have already received some great advice and realize some of you are beyond my knowledge base with regards to hull design. Several members have indicated my flat plate hull is not really great for depth. Not to be obtuse, but what if I had interior ribs spaced closely with a circular cut out, basically kind of a square rib with a donut hole in the center. I originally was going to have a cylindrical pressure hull inside but wanted more room. Is it possible to build my design if I added enough ribs? Plus initially, based on my lack of knowledge, the outer hull that surrounded the pressure was also dry and contained the motor, air tanks, ballast tanks, etc. I now realize that wouldn?t work with flat plates alone. > > How do you determine the pressure a hull will withstand. in my searching the internet, I see a number of vessels made using propane tanks. Is that viable? Any suggestions? > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 12:46 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > Jeff, > > If you have experience with resin pouring on your furniture you will be in a good place. > > Alan > > [Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer](https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=NativePlacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_EmailSignatureGrowth_YahooMail:Search,Organize,Conquer&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000945&af_sub5=OrganizeConquer__Static_) > >> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 17:45:27 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 21:45:27 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> <892994139.5864768.1710704737860@mail.yahoo.com> <2070967509.5906046.1710709339000@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys. I was certified years ago when I was in college?.I just turned 70 so I don?t feel like getting wet. I will stick with the cylindrical pressure hull. Any suggestions? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 2:37 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Good call with the dry ambient suggestion Cliff. Jeff - are you a certified diver? Ambient subs allow for a lot of design flexibility because you don't have to design a hull that will withstand any significant pressure differential, but then of course, you are effectively diving when operating your sub and will be limited to SCUBA depths, time limits, and permissible descent and ascent rates. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 17, 2024, 15:02, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Stiffined pressure hull as you describe helps but not enough. You also reach a point on small submersibles that you have to add so much weight with stiffeners and shell thickness that you no longer have enough buoyancy to get neutral. This drives you to a larger displacement and then the cost goes exponential with size. To determine what a pressure hull can withstand, if you use a typical submersible stiffened cylindrical shell with either semi-elliptical or hemispherical heads, then you can download the Psub ABS stress calculator to determine the maximum operating depth that ABS would approve. If it is a non-standard pressure hull like you are looking at then you need a finite element analysis (FEA) of pressure hull. Typically this is done with a linear solver for the first pass and a non-linear version to look at buckling analysis thereafter. If it is a non-standard pressure hull, ABS would also require multiple prototypes of the hull to be fabricated and depth tested in a pressure chamber with strain gages installed at key locations where FEA calculates high stresses. This level of analysis is normally more than most psubbers want to undertake and thus they migrate back to one of the approved hull configurations. If you want to stay with the stealth concept, you could build a dry ambient boat. Then these stress-related issues go away as the pressure inside the boat is the same as ambient water pressure. The problem with dry-ambient boats of course is the safety-related ones known to scuba divers but amplified because of the boat's ability to move within the water volume much faster. Cliff On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 03:21:17 PM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I have already received some great advice and realize some of you are beyond my knowledge base with regards to hull design. Several members have indicated my flat plate hull is not really great for depth. Not to be obtuse, but what if I had interior ribs spaced closely with a circular cut out, basically kind of a square rib with a donut hole in the center. I originally was going to have a cylindrical pressure hull inside but wanted more room. Is it possible to build my design if I added enough ribs? Plus initially, based on my lack of knowledge, the outer hull that surrounded the pressure was also dry and contained the motor, air tanks, ballast tanks, etc. I now realize that wouldn?t work with flat plates alone. How do you determine the pressure a hull will withstand. in my searching the internet, I see a number of vessels made using propane tanks. Is that viable? Any suggestions? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles > On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 12:46 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Jeff, If you have experience with resin pouring on your furniture you will be in a good place. Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 18:48:05 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 18:48:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> <892994139.5864768.1710704737860@mail.yahoo.com> <2070967509.5906046.1710709339000@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff, You will actually save a TON of both time and money if you build a Kittredge sub from plans as opposed to developing a custom design. And even more so if you can find one for sale. The cost of steel these days means the material alone is much more expensive than a complete used sub. Subs don't come up for sale every day, but if you hang around here they do come up from time to time. Don't worry about not having anything to work on if you go that route. You'll never dive the same sub twice, because every time out you'll come back with ideas about something to add or improve. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 5:46?PM Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks guys. I was certified years ago when I was in college?.I just > turned 70 so I don?t feel like getting wet. I will stick with the > cylindrical pressure hull. Any suggestions? > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, March 17, 2024 2:37 PM > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > > > Good call with the dry ambient suggestion Cliff. Jeff - are you a > certified diver? Ambient subs allow for a lot of design flexibility because > you don't have to design a hull that will withstand any significant > pressure differential, but then of course, you are effectively diving when > operating your sub and will be limited to SCUBA depths, time limits, and > permissible descent and ascent rates. > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Mar 17, 2024, 15:02, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Stiffined pressure hull as you describe helps but not enough. You also > reach a point on small submersibles that you have to add so much weight > with stiffeners and shell thickness that you no longer have enough buoyancy > to get neutral. This drives you to a larger displacement and then the cost > goes exponential with size. > > > > To determine what a pressure hull can withstand, if you use a typical > submersible stiffened cylindrical shell with either semi-elliptical or > hemispherical heads, then you can download the Psub ABS stress calculator > to determine the maximum operating depth that ABS would approve. If it is > a non-standard pressure hull like you are looking at then you need a finite > element analysis (FEA) of pressure hull. Typically this is done with a > linear solver for the first pass and a non-linear version to look at > buckling analysis thereafter. If it is a non-standard pressure hull, ABS > would also require multiple prototypes of the hull to be fabricated and > depth tested in a pressure chamber with strain gages installed at key > locations where FEA calculates high stresses. This level of analysis is > normally more than most psubbers want to undertake and thus they migrate > back to one of the approved hull configurations. > > > > If you want to stay with the stealth concept, you could build a dry > ambient boat. Then these stress-related issues go away as the pressure > inside the boat is the same as ambient water pressure. The problem with > dry-ambient boats of course is the safety-related ones known to scuba > divers but amplified because of the boat's ability to move within the water > volume much faster. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 03:21:17 PM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I have already received some great advice and realize some of you are > beyond my knowledge base with regards to hull design. Several members have > indicated my flat plate hull is not really great for depth. Not to be > obtuse, but what if I had interior ribs spaced closely with a circular cut > out, basically kind of a square rib with a donut hole in the center. I > originally was going to have a cylindrical pressure hull inside but wanted > more room. Is it possible to build my design if I added enough ribs? Plus > initially, based on my lack of knowledge, the outer hull that surrounded > the pressure was also dry and contained the motor, air tanks, ballast > tanks, etc. I now realize that wouldn?t work with flat plates alone. > > > > How do you determine the pressure a hull will withstand. in my searching > the internet, I see a number of vessels made using propane tanks. Is that > viable? Any suggestions? > > > > > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles *On > Behalf Of *Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, March 17, 2024 12:46 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > > > > Jeff, > > If you have experience with resin pouring on your furniture you will be in > a good place. > > Alan > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > > > On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 17 19:30:59 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 23:30:59 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: References: <330518501.5755683.1710672699603@mail.yahoo.com> <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> <892994139.5864768.1710704737860@mail.yahoo.com> <2070967509.5906046.1710709339000@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I will take your advice and look into the kit plans. thanks Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 3:48 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Hi Jeff, You will actually save a TON of both time and money if you build a Kittredge sub from plans as opposed to developing a custom design. And even more so if you can find one for sale. The cost of steel these days means the material alone is much more expensive than a complete used sub. Subs don't come up for sale every day, but if you hang around here they do come up from time to time. Don't worry about not having anything to work on if you go that route. You'll never dive the same sub twice, because every time out you'll come back with ideas about something to add or improve. Thanks, Alec On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 5:46?PM Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thanks guys. I was certified years ago when I was in college?.I just turned 70 so I don?t feel like getting wet. I will stick with the cylindrical pressure hull. Any suggestions? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles > On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 2:37 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Good call with the dry ambient suggestion Cliff. Jeff - are you a certified diver? Ambient subs allow for a lot of design flexibility because you don't have to design a hull that will withstand any significant pressure differential, but then of course, you are effectively diving when operating your sub and will be limited to SCUBA depths, time limits, and permissible descent and ascent rates. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 17, 2024, 15:02, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Stiffined pressure hull as you describe helps but not enough. You also reach a point on small submersibles that you have to add so much weight with stiffeners and shell thickness that you no longer have enough buoyancy to get neutral. This drives you to a larger displacement and then the cost goes exponential with size. To determine what a pressure hull can withstand, if you use a typical submersible stiffened cylindrical shell with either semi-elliptical or hemispherical heads, then you can download the Psub ABS stress calculator to determine the maximum operating depth that ABS would approve. If it is a non-standard pressure hull like you are looking at then you need a finite element analysis (FEA) of pressure hull. Typically this is done with a linear solver for the first pass and a non-linear version to look at buckling analysis thereafter. If it is a non-standard pressure hull, ABS would also require multiple prototypes of the hull to be fabricated and depth tested in a pressure chamber with strain gages installed at key locations where FEA calculates high stresses. This level of analysis is normally more than most psubbers want to undertake and thus they migrate back to one of the approved hull configurations. If you want to stay with the stealth concept, you could build a dry ambient boat. Then these stress-related issues go away as the pressure inside the boat is the same as ambient water pressure. The problem with dry-ambient boats of course is the safety-related ones known to scuba divers but amplified because of the boat's ability to move within the water volume much faster. Cliff On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 03:21:17 PM CDT, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I have already received some great advice and realize some of you are beyond my knowledge base with regards to hull design. Several members have indicated my flat plate hull is not really great for depth. Not to be obtuse, but what if I had interior ribs spaced closely with a circular cut out, basically kind of a square rib with a donut hole in the center. I originally was going to have a cylindrical pressure hull inside but wanted more room. Is it possible to build my design if I added enough ribs? Plus initially, based on my lack of knowledge, the outer hull that surrounded the pressure was also dry and contained the motor, air tanks, ballast tanks, etc. I now realize that wouldn?t work with flat plates alone. How do you determine the pressure a hull will withstand. in my searching the internet, I see a number of vessels made using propane tanks. Is that viable? Any suggestions? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles > On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 12:46 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports Jeff, If you have experience with resin pouring on your furniture you will be in a good place. Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38 am, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 18 11:50:19 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Peter Nedds via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 16:50:19 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Message-ID: <7C5CE0D2-02EB-4D12-AEE8-CC81329A7B9F@icloud.com> Hello guys im new here. this is an amazing community and all the project you guys are working on is absolutely amazing. I?m currently trying to find someone who can build a small sub For a new business project. I?m a software engineer from Denmark. And would like to make it totally autonomous. But struggling to actually build the thing. It?s going to be a super small one tho To present to our clients If anyone is interested in the project feel free to contact me on WhatsApp ?+46 73 878 91 30? Best regards Peter From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 18 12:40:57 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 10:40:57 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports In-Reply-To: <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> References: <215524021.5859285.1710703543112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1FE9CABD-B6DD-4A95-850C-7792BC819440@yahoo.ca> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Mar 18 19:03:53 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:03:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine In-Reply-To: <7C5CE0D2-02EB-4D12-AEE8-CC81329A7B9F@icloud.com> References: <7C5CE0D2-02EB-4D12-AEE8-CC81329A7B9F@icloud.com> Message-ID: <488915337.6464726.1710803033850@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Peter, welcome to the group.The best person I can think of would be Emile in the Netherlands. AiResearch | Mechanical engineering and repair | | | | | | | | | | | AiResearch | Mechanical engineering and repair AiResearch is a small engeneering company. Our working area is: Test equipment - Submersible technology - CNC milling - General machine building and repair | | | | Regards Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 4:52 am, Peter Nedds via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello guys im new here. this is an amazing community and all the project you guys are working on is absolutely amazing. I?m currently trying to find someone who can build a small sub For a new business project. I?m a software engineer from Denmark. And would like to make it totally autonomous. But struggling to actually build the thing. It?s going to be a super small one tho To present to our clients If anyone is interested in the project feel free to contact me on WhatsApp ?+46 73 878 91 30? Best regards Peter _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 19 04:22:57 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 09:22:57 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine In-Reply-To: <488915337.6464726.1710803033850@mail.yahoo.com> References: <7C5CE0D2-02EB-4D12-AEE8-CC81329A7B9F@icloud.com> <488915337.6464726.1710803033850@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01da79d6$a60cf440$f226dcc0$@airesearch.nl> Hi Alan, Thanks for advertizing my company. However, I quit doing commercial work on submersibles. My company does now mainly special parts and testing equipment. Not fed up with submersibles at all but it is now a hobby like the you and the rest of the list. Best regards, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 19 maart 2024 00:04 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine Hi Peter, welcome to the group. The best person I can think of would be Emile in the Netherlands. AiResearch | Mechanical engineering and repair AiResearch | Mechanical engineering and repair AiResearch is a small engeneering company. Our working area is: Test equipment - Submersible technology - CNC milling - General machine building and repair Regards Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 4:52 am, Peter Nedds via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hello guys im new here. this is an amazing community and all the project you guys are working on is absolutely amazing. I?m currently trying to find someone who can build a small sub For a new business project. I?m a software engineer from Denmark. And would like to make it totally autonomous. But struggling to actually build the thing. It?s going to be a super small one tho To present to our clients If anyone is interested in the project feel free to contact me on WhatsApp ?+46 73 878 91 30 Best regards Peter _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 19 05:14:03 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 09:14:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine In-Reply-To: <001e01da79d6$a60cf440$f226dcc0$@airesearch.nl> References: <7C5CE0D2-02EB-4D12-AEE8-CC81329A7B9F@icloud.com> <488915337.6464726.1710803033850@mail.yahoo.com> <001e01da79d6$a60cf440$f226dcc0$@airesearch.nl> Message-ID: <202490340.6593541.1710839643117@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the update Emile.Are you still pressing domes?Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 9:24 pm, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 19 06:55:22 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 06:55:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter, In the underwater industry, autonomous, robotics untethered submarines are called AUV (autonomous underwater vehicles) or UUV (unmanned underwater vehicles) I work with AUV's everyday. Is there any particular reason you are building one instead of buying one? Do you plan on entering the sales market? An AUV isn't just a hull and a propeller, those are the easy parts. You also need things like fiber optic gyroscopes, multibeam imaging sonars, doppler velocity logs, USBL system, acoustic modem, etc, etc Most AUV manufacturers now have purchased the manufacturing companies of the individual parts. I think it would be hard to compete with existing lineups (Kongsberg Hugin, Teledyne Gavia, Iver, Bluefin) if you aren't already in that market. Thanks, -River J. Dolfi 412-997-2526 rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 4:26?AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Submarine (Peter Nedds via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: information on viewports > (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 3. Re: Submarine (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) > 4. Re: Submarine (via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 16:50:19 +0100 > From: Peter Nedds via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine > Message-ID: <7C5CE0D2-02EB-4D12-AEE8-CC81329A7B9F at icloud.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hello guys im new here. this is an amazing community and all the project > you guys are working on is absolutely amazing. > > I?m currently trying to find someone who can build a small sub > For a new business project. > > I?m a software engineer from Denmark. And would like to make it totally > autonomous. But struggling to actually build the thing. > > It?s going to be a super small one tho > To present to our clients > > If anyone is interested in the project feel free to contact me on WhatsApp > > ?+46 73 878 91 30? > > Best regards > Peter > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 10:40:57 -0600 > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] information on viewports > Message-ID: <1FE9CABD-B6DD-4A95-850C-7792BC819440 at yahoo.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20240318/522d7f2c/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:03:53 +0000 (UTC) > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine > Message-ID: <488915337.6464726.1710803033850 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Peter, welcome to the group.The best person I can think of would be > Emile in the Netherlands. > AiResearch | Mechanical engineering and repair > | > | > | > | | | > > | > > | > | > | | > AiResearch | Mechanical engineering and repair > > AiResearch is a small engeneering company. Our working area is: Test > equipment - Submersible technology - CNC milling - General machine building > and repair > | | > > | > > | > > > Regards Alan > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 4:52 am, Peter Nedds via Personal_Submersibles< > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hello guys im new here. this is > an amazing community and all the project you guys are working on is > absolutely amazing. > > I?m currently trying to find someone who can build a small sub > For a new business project. > > I?m a software engineer from Denmark. And would like to make it totally > autonomous. But struggling to actually build the thing. > > It?s going to be a super small one tho > To present to our clients > > If anyone is interested in the project feel free to contact me on WhatsApp > > ?+46 73 878 91 30? > > Best regards > Peter > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20240318/6a6ad0a8/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 09:22:57 +0100 > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine > Message-ID: <001e01da79d6$a60cf440$f226dcc0$@airesearch.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Alan, > > > > Thanks for advertizing my company. However, I quit doing commercial work > on submersibles. My company does now mainly special parts and testing > equipment. Not fed up with submersibles at all but it is now a hobby like > the you and the rest of the list. > > > > Best regards, Emile > > > > Van: Personal_Submersibles > Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: dinsdag 19 maart 2024 00:04 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine > > > > Hi Peter, welcome to the group. > > The best person I can think of would be Emile in the Netherlands. > > > AiResearch | Mechanical engineering and repair > > > > > > > > > > AiResearch | Mechanical engineering and repair > > > AiResearch is a small engeneering company. Our working area is: Test > equipment - Submersible technology - CNC milling - General machine building > and repair > > > > > > Regards Alan > > > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer < > https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=NativePlacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_EmailSignatureGrowth_YahooMail:Search,Organize,Conquer&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000945&af_sub5=OrganizeConquer__Static_> > > > > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 4:52 am, Peter Nedds via Personal_Submersibles > > > > wrote: > > Hello guys im new here. this is an amazing community and all the project > you guys are working on is absolutely amazing. > > > > I?m currently trying to find someone who can build a small sub > > For a new business project. > > > > I?m a software engineer from Denmark. And would like to make it totally > autonomous. But struggling to actually build the thing. > > > > It?s going to be a super small one tho > > To present to our clients > > > > If anyone is interested in the project feel free to contact me on WhatsApp > > > > ?+46 73 878 91 30 > > > > Best regards > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20240319/afe9aadd/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 127, Issue 23 > ****************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 13:18:06 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 17:18:06 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Finding WW1 Sub UC-18 Message-ID: Hi All I've not mentioned this before as this has been top secret for various reasons, but i can now disclose it My brother has been part of a search crew here that have found one of the last remaining (I believe) undiscovered WW1 German Submarines. They have made it into a film which will show on BBC later this year. Website for the trailer is * www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com * I'll paste the text that is in todays local paper as they have officially released the information at last. I didn't have anything to do with the diving expeditions but did make various parts for the camera sleds and things, plus assisted in machining the plaque they laid on the wreck. Regards James [image: image.png] (Press Release) Divers discover missing German U-boat Divers from Guernsey in the Channel Islands have discovered a missing German U-Boat at a depth of over 70 meters. The missing U-boat ?UC-18' was lost in February 1917 after a famous battle with a secret Royal Navy ?Q? Ship which was also sunk in the altercation. It is the only known battle where a navy ship and a submarine sank each other. Historians had contested the accuracy of the battle or even if the Royal Navy ship ?The Lady Olive? had actually sunk ?UC-18?. The team of technical divers and underwater filmmaker Karl Taylor were able to prove the validity of the Lady Olive?s claims by examining the damage to the U-boat and locating what they also believe to be the Lady Olive. It took the team 4 years, including extensive research to finally find the resting place of the submarine along with its 28 lost crew and confirm it as UC-18. The entire four years of the project has also been filmed as part of an upcoming documentary which is set for broadcast on the BBC later this year. Following the discovery, the German War Graves Commission were very appreciative to receive the information and finally be able to determine the resting place of the 28 missing submariners. Fortunately for the Lady Olive all of her crew survived the encounter and were rescued from their lifeboats by a French destroyer some 36 hours later. It was a vital clue from this rescue that helped Karl Taylor narrow down a new search area for the U-boat. Karl said the project had been very demanding with deep dives in very low light, making filming even more challenging. During their search across thousands of square kilometres of ocean, two other wrecks were also discovered and identified but they were not what the team were looking for. In the third year of search, following extensive research and with leads from fisherman it eventually lead to discovering the location of the U-Boat, along with what they believe to be the Lady Olive relatively nearby. The team conducted several research dives on the U-boat and worked closely with U-Boat expert and marine archeologist Tomas Termote to identify the submarine as ?UC-18?. Incredibly she was found approximately 40 miles west of her supposed position and remains in amazing condition. Tomas Termote and the dive team have passed all of their findings and photographic evidence over to the French Maritime Authorities and the German Navy and as it is designated a war grave the French authorities have now closed the location to divers. Karl Taylor said he was elated with the project and being able to document it, ?the circumstances of the sinking?s had been an enduring mystery finally solved' and he hoped that the film would help people realise the sacrifices that all sides made during a very turbulent period of European history. ___________________________ The documentary film: ?The Hunt for Lady Olive and the German Submarine? will be aired on the BBC in June this year. Full details of the film, the crew and the trailer can be found at: www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com For further information about this project please contact Karl Taylor at info at karltaylor.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1680858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 13:24:08 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 13:24:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Finding WW1 Sub UC-18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow James, that's just fantastic. I can't wait to see the documentary! Thanks, Alec On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 1:19?PM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All > > I've not mentioned this before as this has been top secret for various > reasons, but i can now disclose it > > My brother has been part of a search crew here that have found one of the > last remaining (I believe) undiscovered WW1 German Submarines. > > They have made it into a film which will show on BBC later this year. > > Website for the trailer is * www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com > * > > I'll paste the text that is in todays local paper as they have officially > released the information at last. > > I didn't have anything to do with the diving expeditions but did make > various parts for the camera sleds and things, plus assisted in machining > the plaque they laid on the wreck. > Regards > James > [image: image.png] > (Press Release) Divers discover missing German U-boat > > Divers from Guernsey in the Channel Islands have discovered a missing > German U-Boat at a depth of over 70 meters. > > The missing U-boat ?UC-18' was lost in February 1917 after a famous battle > with a secret Royal Navy ?Q? Ship which was also sunk in the altercation. > It is the only known battle where a navy ship and a submarine sank each > other. > > Historians had contested the accuracy of the battle or even if the Royal > Navy ship ?The Lady Olive? had actually sunk ?UC-18?. The team of technical > divers and underwater filmmaker Karl Taylor were able to prove the validity > of the Lady Olive?s claims by examining the damage to the U-boat and > locating what they also believe to be the Lady Olive. > > It took the team 4 years, including extensive research to finally find the > resting place of the submarine along with its 28 lost crew and confirm it > as UC-18. The entire four years of the project has also been filmed as part > of an upcoming documentary which is set for broadcast on the BBC later this > year. > > Following the discovery, the German War Graves Commission were very > appreciative to receive the information and finally be able to determine > the resting place of the 28 missing submariners. > > Fortunately for the Lady Olive all of her crew survived the encounter and > were rescued from their lifeboats by a French destroyer some 36 hours > later. It was a vital clue from this rescue that helped Karl Taylor narrow > down a new search area for the U-boat. > > Karl said the project had been very demanding with deep dives in very low > light, making filming even more challenging. During their search across > thousands of square kilometres of ocean, two other wrecks were also > discovered and identified but they were not what the team were looking for. > > In the third year of search, following extensive research and with leads > from fisherman it eventually lead to discovering the location of the > U-Boat, along with what they believe to be the Lady Olive relatively nearby. > > The team conducted several research dives on the U-boat and worked closely > with U-Boat expert and marine archeologist Tomas Termote to identify the > submarine as ?UC-18?. Incredibly she was found approximately 40 miles west > of her supposed position and remains in amazing condition. > > Tomas Termote and the dive team have passed all of their findings and > photographic evidence over to the French Maritime Authorities and the > German Navy and as it is designated a war grave the French authorities have > now closed the location to divers. > > Karl Taylor said he was elated with the project and being able to document > it, ?the circumstances of the sinking?s had been an enduring mystery > finally solved' and he hoped that the film would help people realise the > sacrifices that all sides made during a very turbulent period of European > history. > > ___________________________ > > The documentary film: ?The Hunt for Lady Olive and the German Submarine? > will be aired on the BBC in June this year. > > Full details of the film, the crew and the trailer can be found at: > www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com > > For further information about this project please contact Karl Taylor at > info at karltaylor.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1680858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 14:11:00 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:11:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Finding WW1 Sub UC-18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1342874191.7391530.1710958261177@mail.yahoo.com> Fantastic James.? Looks like it's going to be an extremely interesting documentary. Jon On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:22:21 PM EDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All I've not mentioned this before as this has been top secret for various reasons, but i can now disclose it?? My brother has been part of a search crew here that have found one of the last remaining (I believe) undiscovered WW1 German Submarines. They have made it into a film which will show on BBC later this year. Website for the trailer is? ??www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com I'll paste the text that is in todays local paper as they have officially released the information at last. I didn't have anything to do with the diving expeditions but did make various parts for the camera sleds and things, plus assisted in machining the plaque they laid on the wreck.Regards James (Press Release) Divers discover missing German U-boat Divers from Guernsey in the Channel Islands have discovered a missing German U-Boat at a depth of over 70 meters. The missing U-boat ?UC-18' was lost in February 1917 after a famous battle with a secret Royal Navy ?Q? Ship which was also sunk in the altercation. It is the only known battle where a navy ship and a submarine sank each other. Historians had contested the accuracy of the battle or even if the Royal Navy ship ?The Lady Olive? had actually sunk ?UC-18?. The team of technical divers and underwater filmmaker Karl Taylor were able to prove the validity of the Lady Olive?s claims by examining the damage to the U-boat and locating what they also believe to be the Lady Olive. It took the team 4 years, including extensive research to finally find the resting place of the submarine along with its 28 lost crew and confirm it as UC-18. The entire four years of the project has also been filmed as part of an upcoming documentary which is set for broadcast on the BBC later this year. Following the discovery, the German War Graves Commission were very appreciative to receive the information and finally be able to determine the resting place of the 28 missing submariners. Fortunately for the Lady Olive all of her crew survived the encounter and were rescued from their lifeboats by a French destroyer some 36 hours later. It was a vital clue from this rescue that helped Karl Taylor narrow down a new search area for the U-boat. Karl said the project had been very demanding with deep dives in very low light, making filming even more challenging. During their search across thousands of square kilometres of ocean, two other wrecks were also discovered and identified but they were not what the team were looking for. In the third year of search, following extensive research and with leads from fisherman it eventually lead to discovering the location of the U-Boat, along with what they believe to be the Lady Olive relatively nearby. The team conducted several research dives on the U-boat and worked closely with U-Boat expert and marine archeologist Tomas Termote to identify the submarine as ?UC-18?. Incredibly she was found approximately 40 miles west of her supposed position and remains in amazing condition. Tomas Termote and the dive team have passed all of their findings and photographic evidence over to the French Maritime Authorities and the German Navy and as it is designated a war grave the French authorities have now closed the location to divers. Karl Taylor said he was elated with the project and being able to document it, ?the circumstances of the sinking?s had been an enduring mystery finally solved' and he hoped that the film would help people realise the sacrifices that all sides made during a very turbulent period of European history. ___________________________ The documentary film: ?The Hunt for Lady Olive and the German Submarine? will be aired on the BBC in June this year. Full details of the film, the crew and the trailer can be found at: www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com For further information about this project please contact Karl Taylor at info at karltaylor.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1680858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 14:16:27 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:16:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Finding WW1 Sub UC-18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1793126883.7377274.1710958587962@mail.yahoo.com> Wow!? Looking forward to the documentary.? The question is can you dive wreck with the Jodie B?? How far is the wreck from your house?? Is the wreck depth within your operating limits? Best Cliff On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 12:19:55 PM CDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All I've not mentioned this before as this has been top secret for various reasons, but i can now disclose it?? My brother has been part of a search crew here that have found one of the last remaining (I believe) undiscovered WW1 German Submarines. They have made it into a film which will show on BBC later this year. Website for the trailer is? ??www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com I'll paste the text that is in todays local paper as they have officially released the information at last. I didn't have anything to do with the diving expeditions but did make various parts for the camera sleds and things, plus assisted in machining the plaque they laid on the wreck.Regards James (Press Release) Divers discover missing German U-boat Divers from Guernsey in the Channel Islands have discovered a missing German U-Boat at a depth of over 70 meters. The missing U-boat ?UC-18' was lost in February 1917 after a famous battle with a secret Royal Navy ?Q? Ship which was also sunk in the altercation. It is the only known battle where a navy ship and a submarine sank each other. Historians had contested the accuracy of the battle or even if the Royal Navy ship ?The Lady Olive? had actually sunk ?UC-18?. The team of technical divers and underwater filmmaker Karl Taylor were able to prove the validity of the Lady Olive?s claims by examining the damage to the U-boat and locating what they also believe to be the Lady Olive. It took the team 4 years, including extensive research to finally find the resting place of the submarine along with its 28 lost crew and confirm it as UC-18. The entire four years of the project has also been filmed as part of an upcoming documentary which is set for broadcast on the BBC later this year. Following the discovery, the German War Graves Commission were very appreciative to receive the information and finally be able to determine the resting place of the 28 missing submariners. Fortunately for the Lady Olive all of her crew survived the encounter and were rescued from their lifeboats by a French destroyer some 36 hours later. It was a vital clue from this rescue that helped Karl Taylor narrow down a new search area for the U-boat. Karl said the project had been very demanding with deep dives in very low light, making filming even more challenging. During their search across thousands of square kilometres of ocean, two other wrecks were also discovered and identified but they were not what the team were looking for. In the third year of search, following extensive research and with leads from fisherman it eventually lead to discovering the location of the U-Boat, along with what they believe to be the Lady Olive relatively nearby. The team conducted several research dives on the U-boat and worked closely with U-Boat expert and marine archeologist Tomas Termote to identify the submarine as ?UC-18?. Incredibly she was found approximately 40 miles west of her supposed position and remains in amazing condition. Tomas Termote and the dive team have passed all of their findings and photographic evidence over to the French Maritime Authorities and the German Navy and as it is designated a war grave the French authorities have now closed the location to divers. Karl Taylor said he was elated with the project and being able to document it, ?the circumstances of the sinking?s had been an enduring mystery finally solved' and he hoped that the film would help people realise the sacrifices that all sides made during a very turbulent period of European history. ___________________________ The documentary film: ?The Hunt for Lady Olive and the German Submarine? will be aired on the BBC in June this year. Full details of the film, the crew and the trailer can be found at: www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com For further information about this project please contact Karl Taylor at info at karltaylor.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1680858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 14:20:29 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:20:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation References: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112@mail.yahoo.com> Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component.? Are any of you willing to share some details on your design?? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible.? Any suggestions? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 16:21:14 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 20:21:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Finding WW1 Sub UC-18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1854424312.7435469.1710966074829@mail.yahoo.com> That looks like great viewing James.Keep us posted.BTW in case you missed it; I did a review on another brushless trolling motor on fb. Will be doing a thrust test in the next few weeks.Cheers Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 at 6:22 am, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All I've not mentioned this before as this has been top secret for various reasons, but i can now disclose it?? My brother has been part of a search crew here that have found one of the last remaining (I believe) undiscovered WW1 German Submarines. They have made it into a film which will show on BBC later this year. Website for the trailer is? ??www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com I'll paste the text that is in todays local paper as they have officially released the information at last. I didn't have anything to do with the diving expeditions but did make various parts for the camera sleds and things, plus assisted in machining the plaque they laid on the wreck.Regards James (Press Release) Divers discover missing German U-boat Divers from Guernsey in the Channel Islands have discovered a missing German U-Boat at a depth of over 70 meters. The missing U-boat ?UC-18' was lost in February 1917 after a famous battle with a secret Royal Navy ?Q? Ship which was also sunk in the altercation. It is the only known battle where a navy ship and a submarine sank each other. Historians had contested the accuracy of the battle or even if the Royal Navy ship ?The Lady Olive? had actually sunk ?UC-18?. The team of technical divers and underwater filmmaker Karl Taylor were able to prove the validity of the Lady Olive?s claims by examining the damage to the U-boat and locating what they also believe to be the Lady Olive. It took the team 4 years, including extensive research to finally find the resting place of the submarine along with its 28 lost crew and confirm it as UC-18. The entire four years of the project has also been filmed as part of an upcoming documentary which is set for broadcast on the BBC later this year. Following the discovery, the German War Graves Commission were very appreciative to receive the information and finally be able to determine the resting place of the 28 missing submariners. Fortunately for the Lady Olive all of her crew survived the encounter and were rescued from their lifeboats by a French destroyer some 36 hours later. It was a vital clue from this rescue that helped Karl Taylor narrow down a new search area for the U-boat. Karl said the project had been very demanding with deep dives in very low light, making filming even more challenging. During their search across thousands of square kilometres of ocean, two other wrecks were also discovered and identified but they were not what the team were looking for. In the third year of search, following extensive research and with leads from fisherman it eventually lead to discovering the location of the U-Boat, along with what they believe to be the Lady Olive relatively nearby. The team conducted several research dives on the U-boat and worked closely with U-Boat expert and marine archeologist Tomas Termote to identify the submarine as ?UC-18?. Incredibly she was found approximately 40 miles west of her supposed position and remains in amazing condition. Tomas Termote and the dive team have passed all of their findings and photographic evidence over to the French Maritime Authorities and the German Navy and as it is designated a war grave the French authorities have now closed the location to divers. Karl Taylor said he was elated with the project and being able to document it, ?the circumstances of the sinking?s had been an enduring mystery finally solved' and he hoped that the film would help people realise the sacrifices that all sides made during a very turbulent period of European history. ___________________________ The documentary film: ?The Hunt for Lady Olive and the German Submarine? will be aired on the BBC in June this year. Full details of the film, the crew and the trailer can be found at: www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com For further information about this project please contact Karl Taylor at info at karltaylor.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1680858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 16:30:21 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 20:30:21 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Message-ID: <66ee213d-a75e-dd90-535a-30e33c5f5170@ix.netcom.com> Hi Jon, this is the canister filter I went with (similar to those on other psubs): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YJGXFR2 And this fan (because it's really quiet): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012CL2V3I I 3D printed a simple adapter to mate the fan to the canister, but this could be made from a piece of scrap wood. I can share the 3D model for the adapter if anybody is interested. As for CAD software, I've been mainly using OpenSCAD, which is a 3D scripting (kind of a "functional" programming) language. If you are coming from a programming background you might find OpenSCAD more tractable than having to come to terms with the idiosyncrasies which ever CAD package you have access to. Cheers, Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mar 20, 2024 11:21 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component. Are any of you willing to share some details on your design? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible. Any suggestions? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 17:36:11 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 17:36:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation In-Reply-To: <66ee213d-a75e-dd90-535a-30e33c5f5170@ix.netcom.com> References: <66ee213d-a75e-dd90-535a-30e33c5f5170@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: favicon.ico Type: image/x-icon Size: 1406 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 18:19:04 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 22:19:04 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Message-ID: <637397d8-2df5-96e1-a5ec-ba4807fc149e@ix.netcom.com> The brand is AC Infinity, it's really an auxiliary electronics cooling fan (you put it on the outside of the case of routers, TVs, VCRs, gaming consoles, etc. to cool them). The fan is 5v DC with a USB connector. I picked it because out of all the radial fans I tested this one had the lowest noise profile. Cheers, Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mar 20, 2024 2:37 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Hi Ian, Is that an A/C fan? Jon, I think that’s the same can I used on Snoopy, and it worked well for 2 people. The fan adapter was just a flat plate with a pressure fit hole in it if I remember correctly. psubs.org (http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/snoopyin2012/) (http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567810/snoopyin2012/) The key regarding the fan is that it be radial rather than axial. I can look up a specific one if you like. Best, Alec On Mar 20, 2024, at 4:31?PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon, this is the canister filter I went with (similar to those on other psubs): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YJGXFR2 And this fan (because it's really quiet): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012CL2V3I I 3D printed a simple adapter to mate the fan to the canister, but this could be made from a piece of scrap wood. I can share the 3D model for the adapter if anybody is interested. As for CAD software, I've been mainly using OpenSCAD, which is a 3D scripting (kind of a "functional" programming) language. If you are coming from a programming background you might find OpenSCAD more tractable than having to come to terms with the idiosyncrasies which ever CAD package you have access to. Cheers, Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mar 20, 2024 11:21 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component. Are any of you willing to share some details on your design? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible. Any suggestions? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Mar 20 19:16:46 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 23:16:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation In-Reply-To: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <211549208.7541405.1710976607708@mail.yahoo.com> Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300.? I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower.? These come up on eBay often.? You can get this used on eBay for $39 now.? These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay Cliff On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component.? Are any of you willing to share some details on your design?? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible.? Any suggestions? Jon_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: R400-D01-032.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 2385618 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 21 06:02:09 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 11:02:09 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation In-Reply-To: <211549208.7541405.1710976607708@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112@mail.yahoo.com> <211549208.7541405.1710976607708@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> Hi Cliff, It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300. I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower. These come up on eBay often. You can get this used on eBay for $39 now. These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay Cliff On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component. Are any of you willing to share some details on your design? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible. Any suggestions? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 21 08:55:47 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 12:55:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation In-Reply-To: <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> References: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112@mail.yahoo.com> <211549208.7541405.1710976607708@mail.yahoo.com> <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> Message-ID: <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944@mail.yahoo.com> Yes Emile, this is a radial blower. The direction of flow in axial intake but radial centrifugal exhaust.??Some people refer to these as squirrel gage blowers.?I was looking at my files and can't put my fingers on the datasheet for this blower but see Papst RL90-18/14N which is a newer version of this blower.??https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/datasheet/rl901814n-12103307/ Cliff On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 05:02:51 AM CDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, ? It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. ? Br, Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation ? Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300.? I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower.? These come up on eBay often.? You can get this used on eBay for $39 now.? These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. ? System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay ? Cliff ? ? On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component.? Are any of you willing to share some details on your design?? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. ? For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible.? Any suggestions? ? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Mar 21 13:35:14 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 18:35:14 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation In-Reply-To: <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112@mail.yahoo.com> <211549208.7541405.1710976607708@mail.yahoo.com> <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <038701da7bb6$226687a0$673396e0$@airesearch.nl> Hi Cliff, RS component also supply Pabst blowers. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 13:56 Aan: via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Yes Emile, this is a radial blower. The direction of flow in axial intake but radial centrifugal exhaust. Some people refer to these as squirrel gage blowers. I was looking at my files and can't put my fingers on the datasheet for this blower but see Papst RL90-18/14N which is a newer version of this blower. https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/datasheet/rl901814n-12103307/ Cliff On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 05:02:51 AM CDT, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Cliff, It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles > Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300. I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower. These come up on eBay often. You can get this used on eBay for $39 now. These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay Cliff On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component. Are any of you willing to share some details on your design? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible. Any suggestions? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 22 18:33:58 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 11:33:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <014901da7ca9$0a05cb00$1e116100$@gmail.com> Hi Cliff et al, Many thanks for sharing your fan recommendation. I have googled Cliffs blower and got the fan curve/data to compare it with mine. The one I selected is about double the power and as it is a computer forward curve blower it can go up to 1" of water gauge. Cliff's design appears to have its best efficiency area around 1/4" water gauge with a max of about 1/2". The one I have is for a 2 person sub but it is untested. What I mean is that we do not know the performance of the soda lime bed. I had a good look at the design of the late Phil Nuyten, before designing mine and learned a bit from that. His design appears to be a short air travel of approx. 2-3" depending on where to measure. What is the dwell time for yours, Cliff? I think that it is great that Jon is doing the design from scratch but in order to do the project it would be great if we could do a spreadsheet for comparison of the different designs. Cliff, as usual, has included the obvious and in this case I would like to review mine in relation to the amount of power used for the duration of the ABS required 72 hrs. I am aiming for 96 hrs but happy for 72 hrs. Jon, where can we download/upload a spreadsheet and drawings / photos etc to assist the project? One of the aspects is to determine what sphere size is being used and then what resistance at various flow rates of air per sq ft or per 100 mm square (100 sq cm) . I am proposing testing using a flow meter of CO2 into a chamber and the maintainable CO2 level achieved. An airtight box of 1-2 cu metres is a suggestion but ideally a tank of a known volume. Somewhere there is a recommendation of how many air changes/hour is best. I need to retrieve the data I used when designing mine but you guys will be more current. I am not a user of FB, Tiktok etc and try and confine my file transfer to email attachments. Cheers, Hugh. ---Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 1:56 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 127, Issue 31 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation (via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 11:02:09 +0100 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Message-ID: <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Cliff, It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300. I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower. These come up on eBay often. You can get this used on eBay for $39 now. These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay Cliff On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component. Are any of you willing to share some details on your design? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible. Any suggestions? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 12:55:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Message-ID: <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yes Emile, this is a radial blower. The direction of flow in axial intake but radial centrifugal exhaust.??Some people refer to these as squirrel gage blowers.?I was looking at my files and can't put my fingers on the datasheet for this blower but see Papst RL90-18/14N which is a newer version of this blower.??https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/datasheet/rl901814n-12103307/ Cliff On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 05:02:51 AM CDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, ? It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. ? Br, Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation ? Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300.? I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower.? These come up on eBay often.? You can get this used on eBay for $39 now.? These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. ? System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay ? Cliff ? ? On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component.? Are any of you willing to share some details on your design?? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. ? For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible.? Any suggestions? ? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 127, Issue 31 ****************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 22 22:49:10 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 02:49:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber In-Reply-To: <014901da7ca9$0a05cb00$1e116100$@gmail.com> References: <014901da7ca9$0a05cb00$1e116100$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1536705392.553729.1711162150539@mail.yahoo.com> Good to hear from you Hugh.? I like the idea of populating a PSubs scrubber parameter spreadsheet.? Some of the parameters that need to be included are: Number of occupantsMass of CO2 absorbent in ScrubberRadial or Axial flow through absorbentScrubber dimensionsBlower head curveBlower currentBlower powerBlower voltageBlower efficiency at the design flowrateAbsorbent supplierAbsorbent part numberTurnover time (cabin volume /volumetricflow rate through scrubber)Absorption capacity (weight %) As for testing, I am a big believer in shop dives while logging cabin environment (pressure, temperature, relative humidity, CO2 ppm and O2 %).Scrubber performance is a function of not only the pellet size but also RH and cabin temperature.? You can do a number of these life support test dives with different objectives like the scrubber's ability to meet ABS <5000 ppm rule, how long it takes to reach saturation of absorbent, and how long before you reach 5000 ppm if your blower is turned off.? ?You can also measure hotel electrical load to determine if your auxiliary battery can meet the ABS 72-hour rule.? I used these shop dives to fine-tune my life support system going through several different blowers until I found that worked the best for my boat.?If you do these shop dives, an important safety requirement is of course to have someone monitor the test/occupant. Cliff ? ? On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 05:34:39 PM CDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff et al, Many thanks for sharing your fan recommendation. I have googled Cliffs blower and got the fan curve/data to compare it with mine.? The one I selected is about double the power and as it is a computer forward curve blower it can go up to 1" of water gauge.? Cliff's design appears to have its best efficiency area around 1/4" water gauge with a max of about 1/2". The one I have is for a 2 person sub but it is untested. What I mean is that we do not know the performance of the soda lime bed.? I had a good look at the design of the late Phil Nuyten, before designing mine and learned a bit from that.? His design appears to be a short air travel of approx. 2-3" depending on where to measure.? What is the dwell time for yours, Cliff? I think that it is great that Jon is doing the design from scratch but in order to do the project it would be great if we could do a spreadsheet for comparison of the different designs.? Cliff, as usual, has included the obvious and in this case I would like to review mine in relation to the amount of power used for the duration of the ABS required 72 hrs.? I am aiming for 96 hrs but happy for 72 hrs. Jon, where can we download/upload a spreadsheet and drawings / photos etc to assist the project?? One of the aspects is to determine what sphere size is being used and then what resistance at various flow rates of air per sq ft or per 100 mm square (100 sq cm) .? I am proposing testing using a flow meter of CO2 into a chamber and the maintainable CO2 level achieved.? An airtight box of 1-2 cu metres is a suggestion but ideally a tank of a known volume.? Somewhere there is a recommendation of how many air changes/hour is best.? I need to retrieve the data I used when designing mine but you guys will be more current. I am not a user of FB, Tiktok etc and try and confine my file transfer to email attachments.? Cheers,? Hugh. ---Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 1:56 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 127, Issue 31 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation (via Personal_Submersibles) ? 2. Re: CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation ? ? ? (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 11:02:09 +0100 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Message-ID: <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Cliff, It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300.? I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower.? These come up on eBay often. You can get this used on eBay for $39 now.? These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay Cliff On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component.? Are any of you willing to share some details on your design?? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible.? Any suggestions? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 12:55:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Message-ID: <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yes Emile, this is a radial blower. The direction of flow in axial intake but radial centrifugal exhaust.??Some people refer to these as squirrel gage blowers.?I was looking at my files and can't put my fingers on the datasheet for this blower but see Papst RL90-18/14N which is a newer version of this blower.??https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/datasheet/rl901814n-12103307/ Cliff ? ? On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 05:02:51 AM CDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:? Hi Cliff, ? It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. ? Br, Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation ? Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300.? I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower.? These come up on eBay often.? You can get this used on eBay for $39 now.? These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. ? System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay ? Cliff ? ? On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component.? Are any of you willing to share some details on your design?? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. ? For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible.? Any suggestions? ? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 127, Issue 31 ****************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Mar 23 09:27:52 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 13:27:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber In-Reply-To: <014901da7ca9$0a05cb00$1e116100$@gmail.com> References: <014901da7ca9$0a05cb00$1e116100$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <719087896.628373.1711200472442@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Hugh, good to hear from you again.? Just to clarify, I am not looking to design a scrubber from scratch, I'm looking to just copy someone else's successful design.? It's one of those components that is hopefully ubiquitous enough between Kittredge style vessels that it would work in any of them, or put another way we should be able to document a scrubber design that WOULD work successfully in any Kittridge style vessel.? I am just beginning to conceptualize about the scrubber and likely won't implement a specific design until June. I do however value the idea of a parameter populated spreadsheet for design.? Currently the only info I have to offer is 1-2 occupants (but likely only 1) and internal volume of approximately 49 cu ft empty (no equipment taking up volume).? Dimensions, 36 x 72 inches not including the tank heads or conning tower.? Cliff's R300 has less volume than a K-boat overall and a lot of his volume is consumed by batteries and other equipment, similarly to the Deep Workers.? Ian's GAMMA on the other hand is slightly larger in volume than a K-boat so his scrubber, which is similar to the one that Alec built for SNOOPY, may work well for me. Sounds like a good project, where do we start?? Perhaps you and Cliff can lead us in this effort. Jon On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 06:35:49 PM EDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff et al, Many thanks for sharing your fan recommendation. I have googled Cliffs blower and got the fan curve/data to compare it with mine.? The one I selected is about double the power and as it is a computer forward curve blower it can go up to 1" of water gauge.? Cliff's design appears to have its best efficiency area around 1/4" water gauge with a max of about 1/2". The one I have is for a 2 person sub but it is untested. What I mean is that we do not know the performance of the soda lime bed.? I had a good look at the design of the late Phil Nuyten, before designing mine and learned a bit from that.? His design appears to be a short air travel of approx. 2-3" depending on where to measure.? What is the dwell time for yours, Cliff? I think that it is great that Jon is doing the design from scratch but in order to do the project it would be great if we could do a spreadsheet for comparison of the different designs.? Cliff, as usual, has included the obvious and in this case I would like to review mine in relation to the amount of power used for the duration of the ABS required 72 hrs.? I am aiming for 96 hrs but happy for 72 hrs. Jon, where can we download/upload a spreadsheet and drawings / photos etc to assist the project?? One of the aspects is to determine what sphere size is being used and then what resistance at various flow rates of air per sq ft or per 100 mm square (100 sq cm) .? I am proposing testing using a flow meter of CO2 into a chamber and the maintainable CO2 level achieved.? An airtight box of 1-2 cu metres is a suggestion but ideally a tank of a known volume.? Somewhere there is a recommendation of how many air changes/hour is best.? I need to retrieve the data I used when designing mine but you guys will be more current. I am not a user of FB, Tiktok etc and try and confine my file transfer to email attachments.? Cheers,? Hugh. ---Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 1:56 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 127, Issue 31 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation (via Personal_Submersibles) ? 2. Re: CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation ? ? ? (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 11:02:09 +0100 From: via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Message-ID: <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Cliff, It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300.? I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower.? These come up on eBay often. You can get this used on eBay for $39 now.? These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay Cliff On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component.? Are any of you willing to share some details on your design?? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible.? Any suggestions? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 12:55:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Message-ID: <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yes Emile, this is a radial blower. The direction of flow in axial intake but radial centrifugal exhaust.??Some people refer to these as squirrel gage blowers.?I was looking at my files and can't put my fingers on the datasheet for this blower but see Papst RL90-18/14N which is a newer version of this blower.??https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/datasheet/rl901814n-12103307/ Cliff ? ? On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 05:02:51 AM CDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:? Hi Cliff, ? It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. ? Br, Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation ? Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300.? I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower.? These come up on eBay often.? You can get this used on eBay for $39 now.? These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. ? System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay ? Cliff ? ? On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component.? Are any of you willing to share some details on your design?? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. ? For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible.? Any suggestions? ? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 127, Issue 31 ****************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 24 07:54:01 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 11:54:01 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Finding WW1 Sub UC-18 In-Reply-To: <1854424312.7435469.1710966074829@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1854424312.7435469.1710966074829@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan I will check out your post in a mo. Thanks for that. On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 20:22, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That looks like great viewing James. > Keep us posted. > BTW in case you missed it; I did a review on another brushless trolling > motor on fb. Will be doing a thrust test in the next few weeks. > Cheers Alan > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 at 6:22 am, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > Hi All > > I've not mentioned this before as this has been top secret for various > reasons, but i can now disclose it > > My brother has been part of a search crew here that have found one of the > last remaining (I believe) undiscovered WW1 German Submarines. > > They have made it into a film which will show on BBC later this year. > > Website for the trailer is * www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com > * > > I'll paste the text that is in todays local paper as they have officially > released the information at last. > > I didn't have anything to do with the diving expeditions but did make > various parts for the camera sleds and things, plus assisted in machining > the plaque they laid on the wreck. > Regards > James > [image: image.png] > (Press Release) Divers discover missing German U-boat > > Divers from Guernsey in the Channel Islands have discovered a missing > German U-Boat at a depth of over 70 meters. > > The missing U-boat ?UC-18' was lost in February 1917 after a famous battle > with a secret Royal Navy ?Q? Ship which was also sunk in the altercation. > It is the only known battle where a navy ship and a submarine sank each > other. > > Historians had contested the accuracy of the battle or even if the Royal > Navy ship ?The Lady Olive? had actually sunk ?UC-18?. The team of technical > divers and underwater filmmaker Karl Taylor were able to prove the validity > of the Lady Olive?s claims by examining the damage to the U-boat and > locating what they also believe to be the Lady Olive. > > It took the team 4 years, including extensive research to finally find the > resting place of the submarine along with its 28 lost crew and confirm it > as UC-18. The entire four years of the project has also been filmed as part > of an upcoming documentary which is set for broadcast on the BBC later this > year. > > Following the discovery, the German War Graves Commission were very > appreciative to receive the information and finally be able to determine > the resting place of the 28 missing submariners. > > Fortunately for the Lady Olive all of her crew survived the encounter and > were rescued from their lifeboats by a French destroyer some 36 hours > later. It was a vital clue from this rescue that helped Karl Taylor narrow > down a new search area for the U-boat. > > Karl said the project had been very demanding with deep dives in very low > light, making filming even more challenging. During their search across > thousands of square kilometres of ocean, two other wrecks were also > discovered and identified but they were not what the team were looking for. > > In the third year of search, following extensive research and with leads > from fisherman it eventually lead to discovering the location of the > U-Boat, along with what they believe to be the Lady Olive relatively nearby. > > The team conducted several research dives on the U-boat and worked closely > with U-Boat expert and marine archeologist Tomas Termote to identify the > submarine as ?UC-18?. Incredibly she was found approximately 40 miles west > of her supposed position and remains in amazing condition. > > Tomas Termote and the dive team have passed all of their findings and > photographic evidence over to the French Maritime Authorities and the > German Navy and as it is designated a war grave the French authorities have > now closed the location to divers. > > Karl Taylor said he was elated with the project and being able to document > it, ?the circumstances of the sinking?s had been an enduring mystery > finally solved' and he hoped that the film would help people realise the > sacrifices that all sides made during a very turbulent period of European > history. > > ___________________________ > > The documentary film: ?The Hunt for Lady Olive and the German Submarine? > will be aired on the BBC in June this year. > > Full details of the film, the crew and the trailer can be found at: > www.TheHuntForTheGermanSubmarine.com > > For further information about this project please contact Karl Taylor at > info at karltaylor.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1680858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Mar 24 17:48:31 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 21:48:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber In-Reply-To: <719087896.628373.1711200472442@mail.yahoo.com> References: <014901da7ca9$0a05cb00$1e116100$@gmail.com> <719087896.628373.1711200472442@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1383716289.962161.1711316911124@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all,I am a bit vague about this, but several years ago I contacted molecular products in the UK, who make sodasorb. They had a design team there that would design your scrubbing requirements based on the volume of your hull & the number of people in it.They seemed really keen to do this free analyses for you.Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 at 2:29 am, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Mar 26 09:32:18 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 13:32:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2024 Announcement References: <1263970756.1707310.1711459938180.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1263970756.1707310.1711459938180@mail.yahoo.com> To all members, Planning has begun for the 2024 PSUBS Convention (PC2024) which will be held at Block Island, NY from Oct 14-17.? We will be partnering with Innerspace Science for an event that includes both diving and technical seminars.? Currently DSV Shackleton and DSV Aquatic have committed to being in attendance and we already have multiple technical talks scheduled.? Details will be shared regularly as plans develop and of course be available soon on our website. Our conventions are the best way to interact and talk face-to-face with fellow members in person as well as inspect and "kick the tires" on the submarine vessels you've read about online.? Make no mistake we want you there in person however we understand that is not always possible so for those who cannot attend either due to distance or prior commitment, we will be using ZOOM to broadcast our technical talks assuming we secure an internet connection from the island.? NOTE...this is the time to renew your PSUBS membership since only "paid memberships" will be allowed into the ZOOM meeting.? Lifetime members will automatically receive an invitation. We are currently investigating logistics such as airports, lodging, transportation and other associated details which we will share in the coming weeks.? What can you do now?? Help us make this event a success. CALL FOR VESSELSPC2024 is seeking submersible vessels of all types to join the event including 1-ATM, Dry/Wet ambient, ROV, or AUV.? Even if your vessel is not operational, we want to see it.? Whether in the process of fabrication/rebuild, decommissioned, or rusted and ready for the scrap heap doesn't matter.? We can all learn something from close up inspection of any vessel in any condition.? Additionally we expect to have a public display which you will be able to participate in with your vessel. CALL FOR SPEAKERSPC2024 is seeking speakers for any topic related to submersibles or underwater exploration.? If you want to speak on your current design, your current build, your latest acquisition, or on a related project we want to hear from you. Contact admin at psubs.org or jon.wallace at yahoo.com if you are interested in bringing a vessel or being a speaker. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 29 19:32:24 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 23:32:24 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation In-Reply-To: <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112@mail.yahoo.com> <211549208.7541405.1710976607708@mail.yahoo.com> <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am curious is there a source for hatch design and fabrication? Jefferson Tortorelli Tortorelli Creations 4910 Santa Anita Avenue El Monte, CA 91731 Cell: 909-908-3795 Shop: 909-370-3131 Website: www.Tortorelli.com Instagram: @tortorellicreations From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 5:56 AM To: via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Yes Emile, this is a radial blower. The direction of flow in axial intake but radial centrifugal exhaust. Some people refer to these as squirrel gage blowers. I was looking at my files and can't put my fingers on the datasheet for this blower but see Papst RL90-18/14N which is a newer version of this blower. https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/datasheet/rl901814n-12103307/ Cliff On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 05:02:51 AM CDT, via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Cliff, It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles > Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300. I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower. These come up on eBay often. You can get this used on eBay for $39 now. These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay Cliff On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component. Are any of you willing to share some details on your design? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible. Any suggestions? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 29 19:55:14 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 23:55:14 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hank's Dual Deep Worker for sale! Message-ID: <2cecfa1a-fe00-a047-503e-c0d2bffa6207@ix.netcom.com> I saw on Hank's youtube channel that he is putting a for sale sign on his Dual Deep Worker: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wPWiWjbkYdM What an absolutely amazing opportunity for some lucky person. Good luck with the sale Hank! Cheers, Ian. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Mar 29 19:59:14 2024 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 23:59:14 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation In-Reply-To: References: <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1373929532.7370919.1710958829112@mail.yahoo.com> <211549208.7541405.1710976607708@mail.yahoo.com> <026501da7b76$d67f5f40$837e1dc0$@airesearch.nl> <1307222564.7713199.1711025747944@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hatch considerations are specifically addressed in Section 11.5 of the ABS Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Systems, and Hyperbaric Facilities (2024). Structurally, hatches should be designed in accordance with the guidelines for pressure boundary components in that document (i.e. the various approved head and shell geometries, or unstayed flat heads per the Steel Vessel Rules) for the appropriate design working pressure, and windows in hatches are subject to the same rules as windows in the hull shell. Reinforcement of a hatch seat opening, as with a window seat, should add, at minimum, an equal area of material as was removed from the hull shell for the opening. Acrylic windows may not be considered as load bearing through the opening, but metallic hatches may be if the stresses are carried through the interface without discontinuity / offset. Dogging mechanisms should permit the hatch to withstand a minimum of 1 atm overpressure in the unseating direction without compromising the hatch seal. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Mar 29, 2024, 17:32, Jefferson Tortorelli via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I am curious is there a source for hatch design and fabrication? > > Jefferson Tortorelli > > Tortorelli Creations > > 4910 Santa Anita Avenue > > El Monte, CA 91731 > > Cell: 909-908-3795 > > Shop: 909-370-3131 > > Website: www.Tortorelli.com > > Instagram: @tortorellicreations > > From: Personal_Submersibles On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 5:56 AM > To: via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation > > Yes Emile, this is a radial blower. The direction of flow in axial intake but radial centrifugal exhaust. > > Some people refer to these as squirrel gage blowers. I was looking at my files and can't put my fingers on the datasheet for this blower but see Papst RL90-18/14N which is a newer version of this blower. https://www.onlinecomponents.com/en/datasheet/rl901814n-12103307/ > > Cliff > > On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 05:02:51 AM CDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Cliff, > > It is a Radial blower right? These ones create a higher pressure than axial blowers. > > Br, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: donderdag 21 maart 2024 00:17 > Aan: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber BOM or documentation > > Jon, see the attached drawing of the scrubber I will be using on the R400. It is essentially the same configuration I use on the R300. I have had good luck with the Rapst RL90-18/24 Fan Blower. These come up on eBay often. You can get this used on eBay for $39 now. These are good German-engineered blowers that seem to strike a balance between adequate head, and not to much current draw so that you can meet the 72-hour ABS rule and they are quiet. > > [System Papst RL90-18/24 Chassis Fan Blower | eBay](https://www.ebay.com/itm/166627017147?itmmeta=01HSF1VY7SQC0FXXSA1F8GFPY9&hash=item26cbbe81bb:g:9j8AAOSw5mRl445B&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABANFh3hHCtU6fs6Dbl0441LWpWWR%2F43mbpX4QOpkamKEuu8wcafqqXiLuT2kQ%2BXzfeEa5SqdPhSyU4mVxszfc67keiNZsobJDZFkLeD2qYIaPRzfcVo--DQpAb4KzXph0QyW%2BJdyA%2FLnVjyv5il0kPgB6Mrd3HUuc1usfOI3kE3rrfrw1%2FTu408WUHU17DIMcWzyqx8r%2Bg6QWHCojrZBFhfj%2BJ8UY3ZOk%2BRPQqJk94OtudAYc9QeQLFSIcuLcfrE%2BUOJ4fdtttU9Hj9MsNiEEx5iGAS%2BuA%2FYKHyckSzhpoqgDhmRqYzLq%2FsHYIwVGLd2W3dYAjx27zATOCHZoUQVxoPc%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBM_OPv4ctj) > > Cliff > > On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 01:21:01 PM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey guys, I'm in the initial thought processes of CO2 scrubber design and really don't want to reinvent the wheel on this component. Are any of you willing to share some details on your design? I know Alec submitted a 3D printer design which we have on the website however I don't have access to a 3D printer and frankly even though I've spent 40+ years in software development and can modify a UNIX kernel, my CAD skills are pretty much non-existent. > > For this component I'd really like something that can be built with as many off the shelf parts as possible. Any suggestions? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: