From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 9 08:46:36 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 12:46:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 video References: <627569168.1706920.1683636396392.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <627569168.1706920.1683636396392@mail.yahoo.com> DSV AQUATIC - Sandblasting and Painting | | | | | | | | | | | DSV AQUATIC - Sandblasting and Painting | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 9 16:05:01 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 20:05:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 video In-Reply-To: <627569168.1706920.1683636396392@mail.yahoo.com> References: <627569168.1706920.1683636396392.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <627569168.1706920.1683636396392@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1972353649.67537.1683662701781@mail.yahoo.com> Jon, I enjoyed the video. Great job! Detailing every step will be helpful for psubbers going down this path.?? Keep up the good work.?? Cliff On Tuesday, May 9, 2023 at 08:25:22 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: DSV AQUATIC - Sandblasting and Painting | | | | | | | | | | | DSV AQUATIC - Sandblasting and Painting | | | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 11 17:03:46 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 22:03:46 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 video In-Reply-To: <627569168.1706920.1683636396392@mail.yahoo.com> References: <627569168.1706920.1683636396392.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <627569168.1706920.1683636396392@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Fantastic John. The video is a summary of multiple hours of work. Brilliant job. On Tue, 9 May 2023 at 14:25, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > DSV AQUATIC - Sandblasting and Painting > > > DSV AQUATIC - Sandblasting and Painting > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 08:55:41 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 12:55:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Phil Nuytten has died at 81 References: <508650923.2811613.1684241741213.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <508650923.2811613.1684241741213@mail.yahoo.com> For those whom haven't heard, Phil Nuytten passed away May 13 at 81 years old.? I have not seen any information regarding arrangements. Phil was a contributor and supporter of PSUBS who shared his knowledge freely.? In 2009 he was a gracious host for our PSUBS convention and let us dive in his Deep Worker submarines, gave us a tour of his shop where he was working on his latest projects as well as his historical collection of submarines.? He treated us very well. It has always been my opinion that Phil Nuytten almost single-handedly legitimized PSUBS.? In the early days, PSUBS garnered some considerable criticism from an untrusting industry who classified us a "weekend warriors" that were going to kill ourselves and in the process saddle the commercial industry with restrictive regulations.? Phil was one of the exceptions that embraced our organization and became part of it.? When that happened the rest of the industry took note and started looking at us differently, with respect.? We will miss him. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 09:11:06 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 09:11:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Phil Nuytten has died at 81 In-Reply-To: <508650923.2811613.1684241741213@mail.yahoo.com> References: <508650923.2811613.1684241741213.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <508650923.2811613.1684241741213@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I had not heard, but boy will he be missed. Talking to Phil was like meeting Da Vinci. He had a completely outside-the-box way of thinking. Engineers draw diagrams of things showing how they will work. Phil would have an idea and draw the finished article, in charcoal, and so beautifully that you'd want to frame the drawing and hang it on your wall. He'd only call in the draftsmen later, explain how the thing would work, and have them come up with the diagrams. If I'm not mistaken his art has been displayed in galleries. He was also a wonderful carver, and the author of the standard textbook on native carving. I think he might have recorded music too. And when it came to subs, they just exploded with creativity. I went up to see him when I was just thinking about building a sub, I think around 1998. I was completely clueless, and he spent a whole day with me explaining everything from how life support works, to which welding electrodes to use in different situations. It was a fantastic combination, world leading knowledge and utterly selfless willingness to share. Best, Alec On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:56?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > For those whom haven't heard, Phil Nuytten passed away May 13 at 81 years > old. I have not seen any information regarding arrangements. > > Phil was a contributor and supporter of PSUBS who shared his knowledge > freely. In 2009 he was a gracious host for our PSUBS convention and let us > dive in his Deep Worker submarines, gave us a tour of his shop where he was > working on his latest projects as well as his historical collection of > submarines. He treated us very well. > > It has always been my opinion that Phil Nuytten almost single-handedly > legitimized PSUBS. In the early days, PSUBS garnered some considerable > criticism from an untrusting industry who classified us a "weekend > warriors" that were going to kill ourselves and in the process saddle the > commercial industry with restrictive regulations. Phil was one of the > exceptions that embraced our organization and became part of it. When that > happened the rest of the industry took note and started looking at us > differently, with respect. We will miss him. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 11:30:11 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 10:30:11 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Phil Nuytten has died at 81 In-Reply-To: <508650923.2811613.1684241741213@mail.yahoo.com> References: <508650923.2811613.1684241741213@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C0E69D7-CF89-40B6-952B-8C69F0F75094@snyderemail.com> Oh no! He was incredible! It was such an honor to be able to meet him and hangout and play in his boats. Legendary. Thank you, Jon, and all involved for setting up that meeting. It was awesome. Rest in peace, Dear Sir! I am a better man for meeting you. Best personal regards, Greg > On May 16, 2023, at 7:58 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > For those whom haven't heard, Phil Nuytten passed away May 13 at 81 years old. I have not seen any information regarding arrangements. > > Phil was a contributor and supporter of PSUBS who shared his knowledge freely. In 2009 he was a gracious host for our PSUBS convention and let us dive in his Deep Worker submarines, gave us a tour of his shop where he was working on his latest projects as well as his historical collection of submarines. He treated us very well. > > It has always been my opinion that Phil Nuytten almost single-handedly legitimized PSUBS. In the early days, PSUBS garnered some considerable criticism from an untrusting industry who classified us a "weekend warriors" that were going to kill ourselves and in the process saddle the commercial industry with restrictive regulations. Phil was one of the exceptions that embraced our organization and became part of it. When that happened the rest of the industry took note and started looking at us differently, with respect. We will miss him. > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 15:43:28 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (subvet596 via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 15:43:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Web site update Message-ID: <6449307004A1EBFF@altprdrgo06.altice.prod.msg.synchronoss.net> (added by postmaster@optonline.net) Hi All:FYI, Project 765's web site has been updated..John K.(203) 414-1000?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10e, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 16 15:44:43 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (subvet596 via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 15:44:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ops! Message-ID: <644135C2067C2F08@altprdrgo03.altice.prod.msg.synchronoss.net> (added by postmaster@optonline.net) ThT would be subsct.comSent via the Samsung Galaxy S10e, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 00:11:10 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 21:11:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join Message-ID: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> Hi all, Saying hi and introducing myself as a new poster on the list here. I live in CA, have zero engineering background, but have gotten hooked looking at all of these projects. I don?t have the time or space to start a project in the next couple years, which gives me some time to figure out if I can develop the skills to make a go of this, as I?m not much of a project guy at the moment. In thinking about how to proceed, I wanted to gain an understanding of how folks go about their respective designs: I?d like to come up with something ?of my own? but understand that to have some calculation/measurement skills that are foreign to me. Is it enough to do some focused reading in Busby to get the ball rolling? Criteria I think I?m interested in 1) Multi-person (realistically that means 2 I think?) 2) Less interested in depth as opposed to ability to (if possible) be maneuverable, some endurance. I?m most caught by the R300 as a concept, to frame the discussion. Those are my thoughts, if there?s anyone near San Diego who has time to talk about their project I?d love to meet y?all, either way I look forward to talking with folks here. In closing, the first message that came through for me was regarding the death of Phil Nuytten: Sad to learn of it and my thoughts are with friends and family here and throughout- I know what it?s like to lose special group members, and it?s never easy. Thanks to all, John Bussard San Diego, CA From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 04:25:01 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 08:25:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> References: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2095402143.2927813.1684311901678@mail.yahoo.com> Welcome along John.Thanks for introducing yourself. I'm from New Zealand so sorry don't quality for the meet up.No you don't have to be an engineer. There is not too much that you can't learn, get a machine shop to do, or get advice from the people in this group about.The Busby book is a great start.My main piece of advice is to share your initial design with the group for their critiquing. These projects can take a long time, so you don't want to waste that time building something that won't work, or that has large design flaws.Also ask a lot of questions as there are some experienced people lurking around. Sometimes they are busy so repeat yourself if you dont get a response. I have travelled to the States a few times to our get togethers ( conferances) & they are a great bunch of guys.All the bestAlan Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 4:13 pm, John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, Saying hi and introducing myself as a new poster on the list here.? I live in CA, have zero engineering background, but have gotten hooked looking at all of these projects.? I don?t have the time or space to start a project in the next couple years, which gives me some time to figure out if I can develop the skills to make a go of this, as I?m not much of a project guy at the moment.? In thinking about how to proceed, I wanted to gain an understanding of how folks go about their respective designs: I?d like to come up with something ?of my own? but understand that to have some calculation/measurement skills that are foreign to me.? Is it enough to do some focused reading in Busby to get the ball rolling?? Criteria I think I?m interested in 1) Multi-person (realistically that means 2 I think?) 2) Less interested in depth as opposed to ability to (if possible) be maneuverable, some endurance.? I?m most caught by the R300 as a concept, to frame the discussion. Those are my thoughts, if there?s anyone near San Diego who has time to talk about their project I?d love to meet y?all, either way I look forward to talking with folks here. In closing, the first message that came through for me was regarding the death of Phil Nuytten: Sad to learn of it and my thoughts are with friends and family here and throughout- I know what it?s like to lose special group members, and it?s never easy. Thanks to all, John Bussard San Diego, CA _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 06:59:53 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 06:59:53 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> References: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> Message-ID: Welcome! I started with my own design, and my advice would be not to do that. I find that I build every component three times. The first time, it doesn't work. The second, it works but doesn't look nice or is too fragile. The third time it works and looks OK. So, extrapolating that very scientific theory suggests that building your own design will take three times as long as building to plans, in addition to the design time itself. One way to use your "pre-sub-build" time is to build small components that will eventually be used in any sub you build, whether to plans or not. There's small stuff that doesn't take a big welder or investment, but which takes time. The other fundamental suggestion is to keep on the lookout for used subs for sale. They don't come up for sale often, but if you have some patience they do. Whether you buy a partially built sub or a completed one, believe me you are buying a project every time in the sense there will ALWAYS be stuff to develop and improve. But it will save you a bundle relative to new construction, both in time and money. And even if you bought a KIttredge sub, it can make a perfectly good 2-person and be highly maneuverable. I think my old sub, Snoopy, is for sale and is a 2-person Kittredge. At least, she was for sale a few months ago and I haven't heard of anyone buying her. Best, Alec On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 12:12?AM John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > Saying hi and introducing myself as a new poster on the list here. I live > in CA, have zero engineering background, but have gotten hooked looking at > all of these projects. I don?t have the time or space to start a project > in the next couple years, which gives me some time to figure out if I can > develop the skills to make a go of this, as I?m not much of a project guy > at the moment. > > In thinking about how to proceed, I wanted to gain an understanding of how > folks go about their respective designs: I?d like to come up with something > ?of my own? but understand that to have some calculation/measurement skills > that are foreign to me. Is it enough to do some focused reading in Busby > to get the ball rolling? Criteria I think I?m interested in > 1) Multi-person (realistically that means 2 I think?) > 2) Less interested in depth as opposed to ability to (if possible) be > maneuverable, some endurance. I?m most caught by the R300 as a concept, to > frame the discussion. > > Those are my thoughts, if there?s anyone near San Diego who has time to > talk about their project I?d love to meet y?all, either way I look forward > to talking with folks here. > > In closing, the first message that came through for me was regarding the > death of Phil Nuytten: Sad to learn of it and my thoughts are with friends > and family here and throughout- I know what it?s like to lose special group > members, and it?s never easy. > > Thanks to all, > John Bussard > San Diego, CA > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 10:08:50 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 14:08:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> References: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> Message-ID: <96219587.2339571.1684332530594@mail.yahoo.com> Welcome aboard John.? Always good to have a new Psub enthusiast.? I agree with my friend Alec's comments and suggestions on how to move forward with your Psub.? Having designed and built and R300 and now having designed the R400 and having her under construction, I can offer a few additional suggestions. 1) You need to come to one of our PSub events and dive in the one of our boats before you commit to a design path.? My suggestion would be to dive in my R300 and in Alec's Shackleton and Dave Columbo's VAST K-250.? This would give you a feel for the range of boat designs. 2) Regardless of whether you design your own boat or work from plans to build a boat or acquire a boat and customize, you need to become master of sub design concepts and calculations such as surface and submerged displacement, purpose of Main Ballast Tanks (MBT) and Variable Ballast Tanks (VBT) or floats and the split between center of gravity and center of buoyancy CG-CB at different states such as transitioning between fully blow MBT and fully flooded MBT.? The sub design philosophy has a lot to do with CG-CB, i.e., flyer design vs. stable observation platform design.? As you note, reading and digesting Busby is a great starting point. I would also recommend "Concepts in Submarine Design" by Roy Burcher and Louis Rydill as well as "Fundamentals of Construction and Stability of Naval Ships" by Thomas Gillmer, chapters 7, 8 and 9. 3) Reach out to Dave Columbo. Dave is an architect by training and has two boats as his psub hobby, the first is a two-person flyer that he has designed and has under construction and a more recent acquisition, a K-250.? He lives in California.? It would be worth your time to go by his place and spend some time talking Psubs.? If you are up for a trip to Texas, I can put you up for the night and we can talk psubs. 4) You also need some face-to-face time with Jon Wallace as well.? Jon as founder of Psubs and is a walking encyclopedia of psubs? He currently has a K-600 refurbishment project underway. 5) My experience is that Psubbers generally fall into one of two categories.? The first are those that enjoy the design-build journey and oh, by the way, have a nice toy at the end of the project and those that want to explore the deep and need a psub for which the build is just a means to an end.? You need to self-critique yourself to see which of these two categories you fall.? This will impact on your psub direction. Good luck on your journey. Best? Cliff On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 11:12:10 PM CDT, John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, Saying hi and introducing myself as a new poster on the list here.? I live in CA, have zero engineering background, but have gotten hooked looking at all of these projects.? I don?t have the time or space to start a project in the next couple years, which gives me some time to figure out if I can develop the skills to make a go of this, as I?m not much of a project guy at the moment.? In thinking about how to proceed, I wanted to gain an understanding of how folks go about their respective designs: I?d like to come up with something ?of my own? but understand that to have some calculation/measurement skills that are foreign to me.? Is it enough to do some focused reading in Busby to get the ball rolling?? Criteria I think I?m interested in 1) Multi-person (realistically that means 2 I think?) 2) Less interested in depth as opposed to ability to (if possible) be maneuverable, some endurance.? I?m most caught by the R300 as a concept, to frame the discussion. Those are my thoughts, if there?s anyone near San Diego who has time to talk about their project I?d love to meet y?all, either way I look forward to talking with folks here. In closing, the first message that came through for me was regarding the death of Phil Nuytten: Sad to learn of it and my thoughts are with friends and family here and throughout- I know what it?s like to lose special group members, and it?s never easy. Thanks to all, John Bussard San Diego, CA _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 12:31:38 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 16:31:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ops! In-Reply-To: <644135C2067C2F08@altprdrgo03.altice.prod.msg.synchronoss.net> References: <644135C2067C2F08@altprdrgo03.altice.prod.msg.synchronoss.net> Message-ID: <345650181.3519434.1684341098979@mail.yahoo.com> Gee John, I thought *I* had a lot of hull to paint.? :)? :)? ?I admire you for painting all that... Looks like the new facility worked out for you.? Glad to see that. Jon On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 03:40:39 PM EDT, subvet596 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ThT would be subsct.com Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10e, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 13:19:56 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 11:19:56 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <96219587.2339571.1684332530594@mail.yahoo.com> References: <96219587.2339571.1684332530594@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0914D358-6A02-4A3D-B78B-D409A0050D68@yahoo.ca> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 17:51:10 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 16:51:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <0914D358-6A02-4A3D-B78B-D409A0050D68@yahoo.ca> References: <0914D358-6A02-4A3D-B78B-D409A0050D68@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <132979FF-17A4-450D-B0D0-E05660B17E77@snyderemail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 18:12:43 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 15:12:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <132979FF-17A4-450D-B0D0-E05660B17E77@snyderemail.com> References: <0914D358-6A02-4A3D-B78B-D409A0050D68@yahoo.ca> <132979FF-17A4-450D-B0D0-E05660B17E77@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: Hey Greg, It would be really interesting to your ambient sub hull and what your plans were then and are now. We all like to hear about everyone's projects, regardless of how technical they may be at the time. Ambient is my preference, wet, dry, or semi-dry. Hence my interest. Tim On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 2:51?PM Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Cliff! > Excellent summary of the organization, but you forgot one category, the > category that I fall into: the serious ?Wannabe?. > > I purchased an ambient sub hull off of eBay and figured it would take me > six months to get it in the water. Then we had a baby. > > As I figure, it will still take six months to get it in the water, but > that baby is now 22 years old. I have moved that hull more times than I can > count but I vowed to get it in the water someday! > > In the meantime, I have been very fortunate to be associated with this > fine group of people who are incredibly smart, motivated and all-around > awesome. I have enjoyed immensely being able to watch the progress of our > members as they build honest to God masterpieces! > Carsten ( our German entrepreneur ) built a submarine that is nicer than > my house!!! > > Brian Cox ( RIP) did incredible work with cement. > > The list goes on and on. > We are fortunate to have some of the WORLD?S best experts in our midst. > Everyone is supportive and encouraging. > > I don?t actually know anything myself, so I don?t have much to offer in > the way of technical advice or build advice or anything else like that. But > if you need information on how to move a sub Hull from one place to > another, I?m your guy! I?ve got almost 22 years of experience! > > Now if you can just check back in six months ?. > > Welcome aboard! > Best personal regards, > Greg > > On May 17, 2023, at 12:22 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ?Hi John, I am far from being an engineer, so I rely on the help from a > few members here to help with math etc. You can do this, but first > identify where you want to dive and how deep the boat ramps are. Launching > and retrieving a Psub is often overlooked as an important design element. > How far do need to tow the sub to you dive spot. I would suggest you post > more details with a design concept. Let everyone comment on how to > proceed and we can save you a lot of grief. A lot of us have learned > things the hard and expensive way. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 17, 2023, at 8:09 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Welcome aboard John. Always good to have a new Psub enthusiast. > > I agree with my friend Alec's comments and suggestions on how to move > forward with your Psub. Having designed and built and R300 and now having > designed the R400 and having her under construction, I can offer a few > additional suggestions. > > 1) You need to come to one of our PSub events and dive in the one of our > boats before you commit to a design path. My suggestion would be to dive > in my R300 and in Alec's Shackleton and Dave Columbo's VAST K-250. This > would give you a feel for the range of boat designs. > > 2) Regardless of whether you design your own boat or work from plans to > build a boat or acquire a boat and customize, you need to become master of > sub design concepts and calculations such as surface and submerged > displacement, purpose of Main Ballast Tanks (MBT) and Variable Ballast > Tanks (VBT) or floats and the split between center of gravity and center of > buoyancy CG-CB at different states such as transitioning between fully blow > MBT and fully flooded MBT. The sub design philosophy has a lot to do with > CG-CB, i.e., flyer design vs. stable observation platform design. As you > note, reading and digesting Busby is a great starting point. I would also > recommend "Concepts in Submarine Design" by Roy Burcher and Louis Rydill as > well as "Fundamentals of Construction and Stability of Naval Ships" by > Thomas Gillmer, chapters 7, 8 and 9. > > 3) Reach out to Dave Columbo. Dave is an architect by training and has two > boats as his psub hobby, the first is a two-person flyer that he has > designed and has under construction and a more recent acquisition, a > K-250. He lives in California. It would be worth your time to go by his > place and spend some time talking Psubs. If you are up for a trip to > Texas, I can put you up for the night and we can talk psubs. > > 4) You also need some face-to-face time with Jon Wallace as well. Jon as > founder of Psubs and is a walking encyclopedia of psubs He currently has a > K-600 refurbishment project underway. > > 5) My experience is that Psubbers generally fall into one of two > categories. The first are those that enjoy the design-build journey and > oh, by the way, have a nice toy at the end of the project and those that > want to explore the deep and need a psub for which the build is just a > means to an end. You need to self-critique yourself to see which of these > two categories you fall. This will impact on your psub direction. > > Good luck on your journey. > > Best > > Cliff > > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 11:12:10 PM CDT, John Bussard via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > > Saying hi and introducing myself as a new poster on the list here. I live > in CA, have zero engineering background, but have gotten hooked looking at > all of these projects. I don?t have the time or space to start a project > in the next couple years, which gives me some time to figure out if I can > develop the skills to make a go of this, as I?m not much of a project guy > at the moment. > > In thinking about how to proceed, I wanted to gain an understanding of how > folks go about their respective designs: I?d like to come up with something > ?of my own? but understand that to have some calculation/measurement skills > that are foreign to me. Is it enough to do some focused reading in Busby > to get the ball rolling? Criteria I think I?m interested in > 1) Multi-person (realistically that means 2 I think?) > 2) Less interested in depth as opposed to ability to (if possible) be > maneuverable, some endurance. I?m most caught by the R300 as a concept, to > frame the discussion. > > Those are my thoughts, if there?s anyone near San Diego who has time to > talk about their project I?d love to meet y?all, either way I look forward > to talking with folks here. > > In closing, the first message that came through for me was regarding the > death of Phil Nuytten: Sad to learn of it and my thoughts are with friends > and family here and throughout- I know what it?s like to lose special group > members, and it?s never easy. > > Thanks to all, > John Bussard > San Diego, CA > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 18:54:31 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 22:54:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Phil Nuytten has died at 81 In-Reply-To: <8C0E69D7-CF89-40B6-952B-8C69F0F75094@snyderemail.com> References: <508650923.2811613.1684241741213@mail.yahoo.com> <8C0E69D7-CF89-40B6-952B-8C69F0F75094@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: <1346124318.2150354.1684364071142@mail.yahoo.com> Phil was one of the most gracious, unselfish, hospitable people I have ever known. I think any of us who have spent time with him would say the same thing.? I had hoped to travel to BC within the next year and get him to let me pay for dinner for a change. Jim Todd? ? ? ??Getting instruction from the master? In a message dated 5/16/2023 10:30:46 AM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:? ?Oh no!?He was incredible!?It was such an honor to be able to meet him and hangout and play in his boats. ?Legendary. ?Thank you, Jon, and all involved for setting up that meeting. ?It was awesome.?Rest in peace, Dear Sir!I am a better man for meeting you.?Best personal regards,?Greg? On May 16, 2023, at 7:58 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: For those whom haven't heard, Phil Nuytten passed away May 13 at 81 years old.? I have not seen any information regarding arrangements.?Phil was a contributor and supporter of PSUBS who shared his knowledge freely.? In 2009 he was a gracious host for our PSUBS convention and let us dive in his Deep Worker submarines, gave us a tour of his shop where he was working on his latest projects as well as his historical collection of submarines.? He treated us very well.?It has always been my opinion that Phil Nuytten almost single-handedly legitimized PSUBS.? In the early days, PSUBS garnered some considerable criticism from an untrusting industry who classified us a "weekend warriors" that were going to kill ourselves and in the process saddle the commercial industry with restrictive regulations.? Phil was one of the exceptions that embraced our organization and became part of it.? When that happened the rest of the industry took note and started looking at us differently, with respect.? We will miss him.?Jon_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cb06b1d1-332e-ed11-90fa-f40343f42de8.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27329 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 19:14:40 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 23:14:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> References: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1022569076.2132285.1684365280652@mail.yahoo.com> Good evening, John, Welcome to the group.? Besides sharing a common interest, I think you'll find this is just a darn good bunch of people with a wide range of education and background.? I used to be very active in PSubs, but due to some family circumstances had to pull back quite a bit.? I hope you enjoy the associations as much as I have.Best wishes,Jim Todd In a message dated 5/16/2023 11:11:40 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:? Hi all,?Saying hi and introducing myself as a new poster on the list here.? I live in CA, have zero engineering background, but have gotten hooked looking at all of these projects.? I don?t have the time or space to start a project in the next couple years, which gives me some time to figure out if I can develop the skills to make a go of this, as I?m not much of a project guy at the moment.? ?In thinking about how to proceed, I wanted to gain an understanding of how folks go about their respective designs: I?d like to come up with something ?of my own? but understand that to have some calculation/measurement skills that are foreign to me.? Is it enough to do some focused reading in Busby to get the ball rolling?? Criteria I think I?m interested in1) Multi-person (realistically that means 2 I think?)2) Less interested in depth as opposed to ability to (if possible) be maneuverable, some endurance.? I?m most caught by the R300 as a concept, to frame the discussion.?Those are my thoughts, if there?s anyone near San Diego who has time to talk about their project I?d love to meet y?all, either way I look forward to talking with folks here.?In closing, the first message that came through for me was regarding the death of Phil Nuytten: Sad to learn of it and my thoughts are with friends and family here and throughout- I know what it?s like to lose special group members, and it?s never easy.?Thanks to all,John BussardSan Diego, CA_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 17 23:31:14 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 20:31:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <1022569076.2132285.1684365280652@mail.yahoo.com> References: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> <1022569076.2132285.1684365280652@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all the words everyone, it?s already appreciated. To elaborate further 1). Production timeline is indefinite. I fully expect that there will be a couple moves and household changes before I even get started on one. Thus placing me in the ?wannabe? category Greg described. As such I have time to examine options. 2). Hank, already appreciate your input on the logistical constraints that I certainly didn?t factor in. Given my above timeline, I think that will need to be considered later on, when the build starts sometime in the near future. 3). Given Cliff?s inputs, I believe that what I am more interested in is described as a ?flyer.? My interest in the R300 even marries up with a spitballed operating depth of 300 ft. 4). Eager to meet folks face to face, hoping that some events pop up soon. > On May 17, 2023, at 4:14 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Good evening, John, > Welcome to the group. Besides sharing a common interest, I think you'll find this is just a darn good bunch of people with a wide range of education and background. > I used to be very active in PSubs, but due to some family circumstances had to pull back quite a bit. I hope you enjoy the associations as much as I have. > Best wishes, > Jim Todd > > In a message dated 5/16/2023 11:11:40 PM Central Standard Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: > > Hi all, > > Saying hi and introducing myself as a new poster on the list here. I live in CA, have zero engineering background, but have gotten hooked looking at all of these projects. I don?t have the time or space to start a project in the next couple years, which gives me some time to figure out if I can develop the skills to make a go of this, as I?m not much of a project guy at the moment. > > In thinking about how to proceed, I wanted to gain an understanding of how folks go about their respective designs: I?d like to come up with something ?of my own? but understand that to have some calculation/measurement skills that are foreign to me. Is it enough to do some focused reading in Busby to get the ball rolling? Criteria I think I?m interested in > 1) Multi-person (realistically that means 2 I think?) > 2) Less interested in depth as opposed to ability to (if possible) be maneuverable, some endurance. I?m most caught by the R300 as a concept, to frame the discussion. > > Those are my thoughts, if there?s anyone near San Diego who has time to talk about their project I?d love to meet y?all, either way I look forward to talking with folks here. > > In closing, the first message that came through for me was regarding the death of Phil Nuytten: Sad to learn of it and my thoughts are with friends and family here and throughout- I know what it?s like to lose special group members, and it?s never easy. > > Thanks to all, > John Bussard > San Diego, CA > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 00:25:25 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 04:25:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Phil Nuytten has died at 81 In-Reply-To: <1346124318.2150354.1684364071142@mail.yahoo.com> References: <508650923.2811613.1684241741213@mail.yahoo.com> <8C0E69D7-CF89-40B6-952B-8C69F0F75094@snyderemail.com> <1346124318.2150354.1684364071142@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53134086.3815468.1684383925766@mail.yahoo.com> Jim,good to hear from you.I agree with yor sentiments.When I was at the Seattle / Van Couver conference he took us all to a local restaurant and shouted us lunch.Hope you have time to get back on to your project.Alan Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, 18 May 2023 at 10:56 am, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 08:07:43 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 12:07:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New Join In-Reply-To: <1022569076.2132285.1684365280652@mail.yahoo.com> References: <85352E2B-5348-4EE2-B69A-55408EF44D79@gmail.com> <1022569076.2132285.1684365280652@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <320277240.3915791.1684411663461@mail.yahoo.com> Good to see you still following the email list Jim.? Don't be such a stranger!? :)? :)? Jon On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 07:16:20 PM EDT, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good evening, John, Welcome to the group.? Besides sharing a common interest, I think you'll find this is just a darn good bunch of people with a wide range of education and background.? I used to be very active in PSubs, but due to some family circumstances had to pull back quite a bit.? I hope you enjoy the associations as much as I have.Best wishes,Jim Todd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 18 14:01:53 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 18:01:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Sad News In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <129305540.4083302.1684432913524@mail.yahoo.com> From Jeff Heaton of Nuytco Research. ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Jeff Heaton To: admin at psubs.org ; publicrelations at psubs.org Cc: Nuytco Research Ltd. Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 01:34:25 PM EDTSubject: Sad News Dear PSUB community ? it is with great sadness that we have to inform you of the passing of Phil Nuytten. He was not only my boss, he was a second father to me, my mentor and one of my best friends. I know his work inspired many of your members to build their dreams and explore the depths. He was very proud of that. Time is precious ? get your subs in the water! ? Continue to dive safe my friends ? Jeff Heaton Submersible Operations Manager Chief Submersible Pilot ? Nuytco Research Ltd. 216 East Esplanade North Vancouver, BC Canada, V7L1A3 Ph. 604-980-6262 Fax 604-980-6236 ? www.nuytco.com ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5057 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 28 00:44:21 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 21:44:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Any Meetups Happening This Summer? Message-ID: <27113D96-71F1-4359-BD74-7142C84CA559@gmail.com> Hi again all- Hoping to link up with folks if there?s opportunity, wondering if there will be a ?23 expedition or convention? Cliff Redus, work is taking me to Fort Worth the week after this (5-9 June), any opportunity to link up around then, if you?re somewhat close by? I can work my travel somewhat to have time to meet up either before or after if time exists in your schedule. Wondering if Dave Columbo reads here regularly, and if so would you have time to link up if you?re close by as well? Happy to share contact info if this lines up, thanks again to all- Am enjoying the start of research. Any recommendations on ways to get started on drafting and gaining proficiency there if one has a somewhat basic MacBook? John Bussard From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 28 19:43:15 2023 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 23:43:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Any Meetups Happening This Summer? In-Reply-To: <27113D96-71F1-4359-BD74-7142C84CA559@gmail.com> References: <27113D96-71F1-4359-BD74-7142C84CA559@gmail.com> Message-ID: <90062482.3702060.1685317395806@mail.yahoo.com> John, I live around 300 miles south of Fort Worth and June 5-9 is not going to work for me.? I am tied up the whole week.? Let's try again at some point in future.? If you ever get down around San Antonio Texas, it would make it easier to tag. If you are going to do design work, best to become proficient with one of the D-D modeling tools like Solidworks, Autodesk Fusion or Inventor. Cliff On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 11:45:30 PM CDT, John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi again all- Hoping to link up with folks if there?s opportunity, wondering if there will be a ?23 expedition or convention? Cliff Redus, work is taking me to Fort Worth the week after this (5-9 June), any opportunity to link up around then, if you?re somewhat close by?? I can work my travel somewhat to have time to meet up either before or after if time exists in your schedule. Wondering if Dave Columbo reads here regularly, and if so would you have time to link up if you?re close by as well?? Happy to share contact info if this lines up, thanks again to all- Am enjoying the start of research. Any recommendations on ways to get started on drafting and gaining proficiency there if one has a somewhat basic MacBook? John Bussard _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: