[PSUBS-MAILIST] Concrete hull submarine
Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Mon Jun 26 23:23:33 EDT 2023
Thanks for the reference!
Marc
On 6/27/2023 3:16 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
> Hi Marc,
>
> that was a long time... I believe it was the unsupported/unstiffened
> thin wall formula (possible from C T F Ross Pressure Vessel's book).
> It does seem a bit high, possibly I'm mis-remembering/guessing, but I
> do remember it was a lot higher than expected. During concrete
> pouring a sample of each pour was taken, these samples would need to
> be tested to determine the properties of the actual concrete used.
> Those test results would then be used to more accurately estimate
> collapse depth.
>
> Wilfried's site is still up with some pictures and links to videos:
>
> http://concretesubmarine.com/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ian.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Jun 25, 2023 6:22 PM
> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Concrete hull submarine
>
> How was the crush depth calculated?
>
> Marc de Piolenc
>
> On 6/26/2023 3:01 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
> Hi Alec,
>
> Yes, that's pretty much it. Wilfried Ellmer is the person who
> built the Swiss sub and started the one in Columbia.
>
> Short version:
>
> The construction phase was plagued with delays, including the
> shipyard we'd rented space from going bankrupt (twice), and one
> time all the managers were arrested and led off the site in
> handcuffs. Each delay added months, sometimes this would use up
> the dry part of year delaying work until next year. Eventually
> the launch permit expired, also the local administrator positions
> were rotated (every 4 years) and the incoming administrator were
> not happy to hear about a submarine being built in their
> jurisdiction. Ultimately they refused to reissue the launch permit
> and asked for a large sum of money each month for 'inspections'
> with the vague chance they would issue a launch permit later.
> Work on the project stopped here.
>
> Shortly after that the shipyard was sold to a energy company to be
> used as their private ship chandlers. There was a free-n-clear
> clause in the sale and the concrete submarine, now sitting right
> at the water's edge waiting to be launched, would cause problems
> and potentially trigger a lawsuit. In the end I denied ownership
> of the sub, based on it never officially being delivered. The sub
> sat in the shipyard for 10+ years after that. I would
> periodically check on it using Google maps satellite view. Most
> recently the sub was replaced by a pile of rubble, so I assume it
> had been destroyed.
>
> A few notes on the sub (from memory, so numbers might be off):
>
> Hull: Teardrop
>
> Construction: Slip cast reinforced concrete
>
> Length: 19meters
>
> Width: 4.5meters
>
> Operational depth: 300meters
>
> Crush depth: 2800meters
>
> Crew: 4
>
> Operational dive time: 1 week
>
> Emergency life support: 3 weeks
>
> Viewports: 1 bow dome, 8 small "sky-light" viewports.
>
> ROV lockout chamber.
>
> Surface propulsion: Diesel engine
>
> Submerged propulsion: Electric
>
> Surface range: 2500 miles (not sure if that would end up being
> realistic)
>
> Submerged range: 50 miles
>
> ABS (and offshore concrete structure rules) was to be followed as
> much as possible, which did cause some disagreement...
>
> Ultimately I knew this project contained risk, and at the time I
> was able to accept that risk.
>
> I would consider doing this again, but in the USA, and with an
> improved design which should be more conducive to following ABS.
> Ideally this would be done in away so hulls could be cheaply
> manufactured for destructive testing.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Jun 25, 2023 8:08 AM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
>
> There's an interesting story about cement subs, which I will tell
> to the best of my recollection. In the early years we had a PSUBS
> member whose name I forget, I believe Swiss or Austrian, who had
> built a ferrocement sub that he kept at a mooring in a Swiss lake.
> The sub was successful, he dived it for years. But eventually he
> moved to Colombia due to marriage, and scuttled the sub in the
> lake, because the road he had used to take it there had been
> re-routed or modified somehow, leaving him without any way of
> getting it out. The sub became an attraction for local SCUBA divers.
> The second part of the story is that another PSUBS member, Ian
> Roxborough, hired the first guy to build him a large cement sub
> with the intention of making it an ocean going live-aboard. The
> project was done completely on the level, with notification to
> authorities and in a major port. This was no drug sub built in
> the jungle. It got to the point where the hull was complete, and I
> think they were about for the first launch. However, Colombia
> being plagued by drug subs, the authorities would not sign off on
> final paperwork or something (can't remember the exact glitch.)
> Ian had sunk a ton of funds into it, and the sub was probably
> perfectly good, but approval never came. I'm not sure what
> happened to the sub. But Ian is still very much active, so maybe
> can tell us. I'm not sure if he's on the email list. If you are,
> Ian, sorry for bringing up this rather painful memory!
> Best,
> Alec
>
> On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 8:35 AM Marc de Piolenc via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> That's it. I lost interest when I realized he had built a
> superstructure on a conventional pressure hull.
>
> Very sorry to hear about Brian Cox.
>
> Marc
>
> On 6/25/2023 6:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
> Marc, that was probably Brian Cox who passed away a year
> or so ago. His pressure hull was steel but he did use
> ferrocement for the superstructure.
> http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/index.cgi?ID=1272980224&VN=Esmae&VT=1
> <http://www.subdb.info/cgi/database/showvessel/index.cgi?ID=1272980224&VN=Esmae&VT=1>
> There are no standards for using ferrocement as a manned
> submarine pressure hull and I think anyone attempting it
> would find little support for the project given the Ocean
> Gate loss.
> Jon
> On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 04:09:00 AM EDT, Marc de
> Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> I know. I fell in love with FC for yachts, which made me
> wonder how
> useful it would be for pressure hulls... Turns out there
> is a 2010
> exchange of messages in my archive with somebody on this
> list who built
> in FC, Brian Cox. Is he still there?
>
> Marc
>
> On 6/24/2023 8:27 PM, Bernie Hellstrom via
> Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> > Many boat hulls were made with FC. Even the landing
> barges in the ww2 , to make piers to in load ships!
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
>
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