[PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site

[hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles]

Jon, agreed, I don’t know to what level Karl’s sub meets ABS standards.  I do know from many conversations with him, that he respects the  engineering rules.  He has done things I would not, but I am sure that is true the other way round.    If I felt his sub was unsafe like the experts did with Titan, then yes, I would suggest taking action.  Have the experts sent letters to Karl, I wonder.   When I say Karl is mostly to ABS rules, I am refuting the the pressure hull.  The pressure hull is the issue with Titan after all.  Titan seemed a nice simple design otherwise.  
Hank

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 24, 2023, at 11:38 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> How do you know Idabel is built mostly to ABS rules?  Because Stanley says so?  
> 
> As I used to tell Will Kohnen, there are only two kinds of submarines in the world; certified and non-certified.  If a sub is not certified it doesn't matter what they are used for, what they carry, or how deep they dive; you do not know and cannot say with certainty whether it meets ABS standards regardless of who fabricated it.  A non-certified vessel built by the best submarine builder in the world cannot be proven to be any more in compliance with ABS standards than the psubber that builds a non-certified K350 in their backyard.  It is the certification that proves compliance to standards and that makes all non-certified submarines equal.  I think we may all agree there can be obvious signs of an unsafe vessel, however in totality the concept of how "safe" a non-certified submarine is, is subjective.
> 
> I don't have anything against Stanley and am not suggesting he be reigned in, however Sean has asked a perfectly reasonable question and I think before we start holding anyone accountable for the Titan loss we need to know whether the industry is going to endorse double standards or hold everyone to the same standard.
> 
> Bringing the question back to you...take out the personalities, friendships, and acquaintances...look only at the facts...there is a non-certified submarine taking passengers-for-hire to a depth of 3000 feet in an unsupervised environment.  Does PSUBS have a responsibility to petition ABS or the courts to intervene and stop the operation because it might be unsafe?
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
>> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:10:28 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Sean raises a good point.  There is however a big difference.  Karl’s sub is built mostly to ABS rules and at least to standard engineering guidelines.  My issue is not with being classed.  Classing a sub does not make it safer, it just proves it is safe.  The boiler plate waiver would apply and be sufficient in Karl’s case. 
>> Hank
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20230624/1f0fafee/attachment.html>