[PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Mon Jul 3 02:59:26 EDT 2023
On 7/3/2023 2:17 PM, Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> France is a good example of regulatory overreach with a culture of
> "everything is forbidden unless it is specifically authorized". It
> probably explains why I am probably the only builder of 1atm subs I
> know of here, and still, I had to register my sub with british flag
> (imagine that ;-)) with a super special authorization process now
> to dive here.
And yet, until recently at least, France had an active experimental
aircraft movement building and flying a wide variety of airplanes.
Marc
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 12:53 AM Marc de Piolenc via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> That's it, except that Left bias in the media goes back long
> before COVID.
>
> Marc de Piolenc
>
> On 7/3/2023 6:34 AM, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>> Hi Carsten!
>> I think I can address what Marc is referring to in his “despite
>> its heavy leftism” comment.
>>
>> Right now the media in the United States is horribly broken to
>> the point that we really don’t have any news organizations that
>> tell news. Rather they find a few items that they will consider
>> “facts” and they will create a narrative of “this is the truth
>> and everything else is a lie” commentary. Very frustrating for
>> the average citizen who just wants to stay informed.
>>
>> The same exact event will have two distinctly separate approaches
>> to how it is represented in the media.
>>
>> It is fairly awful.
>> This is compounded by the multiple events over the past few years
>> where the government was openly lying ( or protecting the public
>> from the truth) about Covid, it’s origin and possible treatments
>> - and the American people have lost faith in the government AND
>> the media.
>> Only made worse by the government directly involving itself in
>> social media to control what can be and will be allowed to be
>> discussed.
>>
>> Marc’s initial comment “despite its heavy leftism” was to
>> acknowledge that the magazine is typically viewed as having
>> opinions that would only be endorsed by 1/2 of the country and
>> that it would be typical tactics in their journalistic integrity
>> to demean the person involved and not address facts of the case.
>>
>> He was saying “even though recent history of this magazine would
>> let us know they are going to do a bad job, they did an even
>> worse job than expected.”
>>
>> I personally get my news from the BBC.
>>
>> At least I’m digesting someone else’s propaganda.
>>
>> Our system is broken.
>> Most normal Americans realize it but are powerless to stop it.
>> For a time when we have almost the best of everything in history,
>> we are busy creating our own conflicts and racial divides because
>> it serves the major political parties.
>>
>> My father passed away last year at almost 94 years old.
>> He told me once, “Son, the world is going to hell, but I’m
>> getting out in time.”
>>
>> The older I get. The more I embrace that sentiment.
>>
>> AND…you still have the most awesome personal submersible I have
>> ever seen.
>>
>> Best personal regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> (Marc -please correct me if I am wrong)
>> (Everyone else - I don’t mean to enter any sort of political
>> debate here about anything - just trying to put Marc’s statement
>> into context for our European colleagues. )
>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2023, at 12:51 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marc, what means "Despite its heavy leftism" ?
>>>
>>> And how can a sounding system help you on a fiber with the
>>> elastic behaviour of glass?
>>>
>>> Carsten
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
>>> Titanic site
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-07-02T07:01:28+0200
>>>
>>> Von: "Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> An: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
>>> <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles>
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> And the character assassination and innuendos are running full
>>> blast. Despite its heavy leftism, I would have expected
>>> something more like journalistic integrity from The New Yorker.
>>>
>>> The article did reveal one fact that I had not seen, namely that
>>> the occupants had time enough to release weights before the
>>> fatal implosion. The acoustic sensors did work, but did not give
>>> sufficient margin.
>>>
>>> The rest is essentially irrelevant but damaging floss. Endless
>>> harping about the controller, which was completely irrelevant to
>>> this accident, as the author and his informants must have known.
>>>
>>> Marc de Piolenc
>>>
>>> On 7/2/2023 3:53 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via
>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>>>
>>> The Titan Submersible Implosion Was “an Accident Waiting to
>>> Happen” | The New Yorker
>>> <https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen?fbclid=IwAR0CN7CyK3Ok72HX4Mf0n6sB6uc95sE-nH5_N1KDrqA5XHU1vx_k8eUCbfo>
>>>
>>> Best insider description so far.
>>>
>>> Carsten
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
>>> Titanic site
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-07-01T12:13:41+0200
>>>
>>> Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
>>> <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles>
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> I have done the calculation again for a spherical shell
>>> sector window with conical edge 160Mpa and CF 4.
>>>
>>> According to this, a window with 530/376 & 60° would have to be
>>> would have a wall thickness of 161 mm - according to photos
>>> it was 140 mm at 60° or 110 mm at a 90° fit.
>>> A 90° window would have needed 132 mm thickness according to
>>> the code.
>>> Now.. 140 to 161 mm or 110 to 132 mm is not far off - and
>>> considering the window was inside straight - means there was
>>> more material there.
>>>
>>> I now think the window was OK from a pressure design point
>>> of view. To be precise you would need a cross-section
>>> drawing with the real geometry.
>>>
>>> Carsten
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
>>> Titanic site
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-06-30T22:29:35+0200
>>>
>>> Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
>>> <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles>
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> If I use these 120 mm (STCP) and a CF of 4 it was good for
>>> around 1000 m.
>>>
>>> With 120 mm thickness it was at collapse deep.
>>>
>>> Carsten
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
>>> Titanic site
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-06-30T22:18:31+0200
>>>
>>> Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
>>> <mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.deviaPersonal_Submersibles>
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> I found a much better picture and correct the figures as follow:
>>>
>>> Diameter hull 1600 mm (given)
>>>
>>> Diameter front porthole outside 614 mm
>>>
>>> Diameter front porthole inside 436 mm
>>>
>>> But given with the outer window diamter given by Jon of just
>>> 530 I come to
>>>
>>> Diameter hull 1381mm
>>>
>>> Diameter front porthole outside 530 mm (given)
>>>
>>> Diameter front porthole inside 376 mm
>>>
>>> If I do with the 530 / 376 a little reverse enginering on a
>>> conical seat of 60°
>>>
>>> I come to a thickness of just 120 mm for a inside and
>>> outside flat conical frustrum window.
>>>
>>> According to PVHO-1-1987 t /Di = 0,348 with t = 0,348 x
>>> 376 mm = 162 mm at 40 Mpa (4000m)
>>>
>>> (for Short term critical presssure)
>>>
>>> But from Jon's picture it seems more a Sperical Sector
>>> Window with Conical Edge. and flat inside.
>>>
>>> The code has no figures for such a window.
>>>
>>> But if I use for Sherical Shell windows t/di shall 0,195
>>> means t = 0,195 x 376 = 73 mm
>>>
>>> To be diplomatic I just mix up the flat with the sperhical
>>> and got (162 + 73) / 2 = 117,5 mm
>>>
>>> (for Short term critical presssure)
>>>
>>> The code says if you have not a standard geometrie - you
>>> have to test 5 windows to destroy dephs
>>>
>>> and use the lowest failture pressure for your calculation.
>>>
>>> Carsten
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
>>> Titanic site
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-06-30T16:11:40+0200
>>>
>>> Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> Hello Carsten,
>>> for the thickness, I read that the viewport should have been
>>> rated for 1300meters depth, so I think that the designer
>>> designed for a short term critical pressure of 5200m/52MPa,
>>> and perhaps thought it would be fine using a 1.3X margin to
>>> get to 4000m rather than the 4X margin we can find in
>>> Stachiw book and PVHO rules for low temperatures (to be
>>> checked but I believe it is 4x).
>>> regards
>>> Antoine
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 4:03 PM MerlinSub at t-online.de via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I check out some pictures and based on a given length of
>>> 6500mm
>>>
>>> I come to the following rough figures:
>>>
>>> Diameter hull 1600 mm
>>>
>>> Diameter front porthole outside 700 mm
>>>
>>> Diameter front porthole inside 466 mm
>>>
>>> (these diameters indicate that the porthole could be
>>> original designed as entrance..)
>>>
>>> Now idear about the thickness of the acrylic
>>>
>>> - but will check out PHSME about standard flange angles
>>> tonight.
>>>
>>> Carsten
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing
>>> at Titanic site
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-06-30T15:31:14+0200
>>>
>>> Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> For me it looks like the biggest diameter porthole used
>>> in that deep.
>>>
>>> Has somebody here inner and outer diameter and the
>>> thickness?
>>>
>>> Carsten
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing
>>> at Titanic site
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-06-29T21:11:55+0200
>>>
>>> Von: "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>
>>> The pictures of Titan that I see in water show 16 bolts
>>> holding the retaining ring in place. See attached photo.
>>> Jon
>>> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:49:18 AM EDT,
>>> MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have seen a video how they make the carbon cylinder
>>> and can imagine that the boat imploded in longitudinal
>>> direction.
>>>
>>> Create a massive shock wave with push the window out
>>> (not in). As I saw in another video the window was hold
>>> by only 4 bolts outside.
>>>
>>> All titan parts in the video seems undamaged.
>>>
>>> Carsten
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>>>
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>>
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>
> --
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> Mass Flow (ducted fans):http://massflow.archivale.com
> ProZ profile:https://www.proz.com/profile/639380
> Substack account:https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com
> Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc
>
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--
Archivale catalog:http://www.archivale.com
Mass Flow (ducted fans):http://massflow.archivale.com
ProZ profile:https://www.proz.com/profile/639380
Substack account:https://fmarcdepiolenc.substack.com
Pinterest:https://www.pinterest.ph/piolenc
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