[PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sun Jul 2 18:48:44 EDT 2023
I mentioned the relevance of the left-wing bias in another message.
As for acoustic sensing, it apparently caught vibrations relating to the
adjustment of individual fiber positions during the initial
pressurization of the hull, and acoustic sensors continued to be used
during dives. At least, that is how I interpreted what I have read. And
as I understand it, the fibers used were carbon, though nobody says
which kind...
Marc de Piolenc
On 7/3/2023 1:49 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>
> Marc, what means "Despite its heavy leftism" ?
>
> And how can a sounding system help you on a fiber with the elastic
> behaviour of glass?
>
> Carsten
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
>
> Datum: 2023-07-02T07:01:28+0200
>
> Von: "Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> An: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> And the character assassination and innuendos are running full blast.
> Despite its heavy leftism, I would have expected something more like
> journalistic integrity from The New Yorker.
>
> The article did reveal one fact that I had not seen, namely that the
> occupants had time enough to release weights before the fatal
> implosion. The acoustic sensors did work, but did not give sufficient
> margin.
>
> The rest is essentially irrelevant but damaging floss. Endless harping
> about the controller, which was completely irrelevant to this
> accident, as the author and his informants must have known.
>
> Marc de Piolenc
>
> On 7/2/2023 3:53 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles
> wrote:
>
> The Titan Submersible Implosion Was “an Accident Waiting to
> Happen” | The New Yorker
> <https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen?fbclid=IwAR0CN7CyK3Ok72HX4Mf0n6sB6uc95sE-nH5_N1KDrqA5XHU1vx_k8eUCbfo>
>
> Best insider description so far.
>
> Carsten
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
>
> Datum: 2023-07-01T12:13:41+0200
>
> Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> I have done the calculation again for a spherical shell sector
> window with conical edge 160Mpa and CF 4.
>
> According to this, a window with 530/376 & 60° would have to be
> would have a wall thickness of 161 mm - according to photos it was
> 140 mm at 60° or 110 mm at a 90° fit.
> A 90° window would have needed 132 mm thickness according to the
> code.
> Now.. 140 to 161 mm or 110 to 132 mm is not far off - and
> considering the window was inside straight - means there was more
> material there.
>
> I now think the window was OK from a pressure design point of
> view. To be precise you would need a cross-section drawing with
> the real geometry.
>
> Carsten
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
>
> Datum: 2023-06-30T22:29:35+0200
>
> Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> If I use these 120 mm (STCP) and a CF of 4 it was good for around
> 1000 m.
>
> With 120 mm thickness it was at collapse deep.
>
> Carsten
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
>
> Datum: 2023-06-30T22:18:31+0200
>
> Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> I found a much better picture and correct the figures as follow:
>
> Diameter hull 1600 mm (given)
>
> Diameter front porthole outside 614 mm
>
> Diameter front porthole inside 436 mm
>
> But given with the outer window diamter given by Jon of just 530 I
> come to
>
> Diameter hull 1381mm
>
> Diameter front porthole outside 530 mm (given)
>
> Diameter front porthole inside 376 mm
>
> If I do with the 530 / 376 a little reverse enginering on a
> conical seat of 60°
>
> I come to a thickness of just 120 mm for a inside and outside
> flat conical frustrum window.
>
> According to PVHO-1-1987 t /Di = 0,348 with t = 0,348 x 376 mm
> = 162 mm at 40 Mpa (4000m)
>
> (for Short term critical presssure)
>
> But from Jon's picture it seems more a Sperical Sector Window with
> Conical Edge. and flat inside.
>
> The code has no figures for such a window.
>
> But if I use for Sherical Shell windows t/di shall 0,195 means t
> = 0,195 x 376 = 73 mm
>
> To be diplomatic I just mix up the flat with the sperhical and got
> (162 + 73) / 2 = 117,5 mm
>
> (for Short term critical presssure)
>
> The code says if you have not a standard geometrie - you have to
> test 5 windows to destroy dephs
>
> and use the lowest failture pressure for your calculation.
>
> Carsten
>
> .
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
>
> Datum: 2023-06-30T16:11:40+0200
>
> Von: "Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> Hello Carsten,
> for the thickness, I read that the viewport should have been rated
> for 1300meters depth, so I think that the designer designed for a
> short term critical pressure of 5200m/52MPa, and perhaps thought
> it would be fine using a 1.3X margin to get to 4000m rather than
> the 4X margin we can find in Stachiw book and PVHO rules for low
> temperatures (to be checked but I believe it is 4x).
> regards
> Antoine
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 4:03 PM MerlinSub at t-online.de via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> I check out some pictures and based on a given length of 6500mm
>
> I come to the following rough figures:
>
> Diameter hull 1600 mm
>
> Diameter front porthole outside 700 mm
>
> Diameter front porthole inside 466 mm
>
> (these diameters indicate that the porthole could be original
> designed as entrance..)
>
> Now idear about the thickness of the acrylic
>
> - but will check out PHSME about standard flange angles tonight.
>
> Carsten
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
> Titanic site
>
> Datum: 2023-06-30T15:31:14+0200
>
> Von: "MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> For me it looks like the biggest diameter porthole used in
> that deep.
>
> Has somebody here inner and outer diameter and the thickness?
>
> Carsten
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at
> Titanic site
>
> Datum: 2023-06-29T21:11:55+0200
>
> Von: "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> The pictures of Titan that I see in water show 16 bolts
> holding the retaining ring in place. See attached photo.
> Jon
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:49:18 AM EDT,
> MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> I have seen a video how they make the carbon cylinder and can
> imagine that the boat imploded in longitudinal direction.
>
> Create a massive shock wave with push the window out (not in).
> As I saw in another video the window was hold by only 4 bolts
> outside.
>
> All titan parts in the video seems undamaged.
>
> Carsten
>
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>
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