[PSUBS-MAILIST] air compensation

Wed Aug 2 22:38:39 EDT 2023

 Good Update David.  
Best
    On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 09:14:23 PM CDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  

 Hi Guys, I've been following this thread on air compensation with great interest. So today I reached out to my Minn Kota contact to inquire about the new brushless 120# thrusters and if lower units could be purchased. The new units will not be available to the public most likely till March of next year and no parts will be available for at least the first 6 months after, as all warranty work and repairs will be going back to the factory to qc this product. The projected cost on the lower unit is expected to be in the $800 to $1000 range, (fully outfitted  bow unit, around $3600). Not too bad as my cost for my 101 lower units was right around $575 , six years ago. Here is the bad news. The only unit being released is the Bow mount unit which requires all of the hummingbird technology to operate, with the built in speed controller, foot control and the BMS system, all of which is proprietary.  From what I understand there is no way to run the brushless motor without the technology, so essentially useless as a sub motor and not able to be disabled and not able to be rebuilt.  The other bad news is the 101 series is also being discontinued in favor of new bluetooth technology and the reliance entirely on a closed loop proprietary software system being sold as what fishermen really want and need to be able to fish. Even the built in transducer in the lower unit will only work with Hummingbird, or will work with say Garmin but only a very limited basic sidescan and none of the 3d scanning , panoptics , etc. The new brushless unit at 24v = 96# thrust, and the 36v=115# thrust. Not actually much better than the 101's.  Good thing I currently have six of them in my shop. Once I get my test pool assembled for the VAST, after I complete the outfitting, I will test my 36v 101's with an air compensation system, all  I need are the extra regulator and op valves.        

Best Regards,
David Colombo

804 College Ave
Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
(707) 536-1424
www.SeaQuestor.com

On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 6:23 PM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

After a successful Inner-space Science Expedition at Beaver Island this year I know it feels good to recover Shackleton and be on the way home.
Cliff

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 2, 2023, at 7:21 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Guess where this finds me? We picked up Shackleton from Bernie’s a couple of hours ago and are homeward bound. Bernie as always super helpful. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 2, 2023, at 7:36 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Alec, I setup a spreadsheet to analyze the following setup.

 A scuba tank has a 1st stage regulator attached.  A Tescom 44-4069 pressure reducing regulatorwith venting is attached and tubing is connected from the HP port to a set ofMinn-Kota 101 motors.  The question iscan the small orifice in the HP port pass sufficient air to handle the demandfor air in thrusters to keep the pressure a fixed differential pressure aboveambient water pressure.

The calculation indicates this arrangement will work.  If anyone wants a copy of the spreadsheet,please email me your email address and I will send.

The calculation indicates the HP port could be used forthis.  Having said that, yes, this asimple clean setup but so is connecting to a spare LP port.  The advantage of the LP port is that pressurerating of the regulator body can be less so less 316 stainless and less cost.  Would be good to spec a regulator like theTescom 44-4069 regulator with its venting capacity but for pressures one would expect from the LP port.

Cliff

PS: Hope you got your Land Rover back from the shop.

    On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 04:09:41 PM CDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  

 Hi Cliff,
"The Tescom 44-4069 regulator would be a clean installation with just a single 1/4 SS tubing run from the HP port of the 1st stage regulator to the input port of Tescom 44-4069 regulator."
There's a little problem with this plan, though easy to work around. The HP ports on regulators have a tiny orifice, in order to prevent rapid loss of air if a hose or SPG fails. These ports cannot provide the sort of flow you would want. 
Best,Alec
On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 12:17 PM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Sean, the specs do look good on this unit.  To me the issue is going to be the cost.  As background, the Parker regulator that Hugh, Alec and I have used for this application is the 364-02BSS/M1 Parker Watts Pneumatic Regulator.
https://store.livhaven.com/r364-02bss-m1-watts-fluidair-pneumatic-regulator at $217.51.  I purchased mine off ebay for a fraction of this.

When I had the Parker 364-02BSS/M1 installed for pressure compensating for my four MK 101s, it was connected to the LP port from my AquaLung Titan balanced diaphragm first stage regulator. I had the Parker 364-02BSS/M1 adjusted to give about 2 psi over ambient.  I had the first stage set to 50 psi over ambient water pressure.  I use this for BIBBS and blowing the MBTs. 
The Tescom 44-4069 regulator would run directly off the HP air tank pressure then output go directly to thrusters.  It would be interesting to compare the Cv's for both regulators to get a feel on how much air flow rate they can provide to the thrusters descending and venting when ascending.  
The Tescom 44-4069 regulator would be a clean installation with just a single 1/4 SS tubing run from the HP port of the 1st stage regulator to the input port of Tescom 44-4069 regulator.  From the output port of the Tescom 44-4069 a single 1/4 SS tubing to a Swagelok Tee that branched off to two more "T"s to give four 1/4 SS tubing runs to the thrusters.

We need to get a RFQ on one of these regulators.  Do you have a preferred supplier?
Cliff

    On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 09:47:29 PM CDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:  

 I would be inclined to use a Tescom 44-4069 regulator for this purpose. Not sure what these sell for.

Sean

-------- Original Message --------
On Jul. 31, 2023, 20:37, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

My original air competition for the R300 used the regulator that Hugh Fulton has on QSub.  These are pricey new but you can get them used on eBay.  I was operating all four of my Minn kotas 101 off this single regulator.  It was a special ss pressure reducing/pressure releasing regulator.  I had it installed on my last Florida dive which I went down about 100 ft .  Unit worked fine.  My first failure was on Flathead lake expedition in which one of my aft thrusters flooded.  After that I switched to oil compensation.  Alec is using same regular on his articulated arm and not the thrusters. He felt issue with the regulator was that the port for releasing pressure on ascent was too small.  I believe he has addressed this by adding a pressure release valve or OP valve.  He can elaborate more on his current strategy.
Cliff

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 31, 2023, at 9:14 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

John,I am happy with both air & oil. Am intending to fill my thrusters with oil, but have the oil pressurized off my air comp system. This will reduce air use to just whats in the lines.My electric manipulator will be air compensated off the same unit. Putting oil in it adds another layer of complexity.I think I need to put out a long video once I've finished thisair compensator.From what I am hearing from Cliff, he didn't get enough air delivery from the single regulator he was using. However I thought this was the same unit that Alec is using & was now happy with.Alan

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 at 1:29 pm, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:   _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
  _______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

_______________________________________________
Personal_Submersibles mailing list
Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20230803/11ef2afa/attachment-0001.html>