From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 28 11:42:18 2022 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 15:42:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 buoyancy mystery References: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> I'm stuck on a buoyancy issue with the K-600.? The operating and service manuals state that the working weight of the vessel (dive ready) is 4500 pounds less operator.? However, when I calculate the buoyancy of the vessel based upon it's physical dimensions I don't even come close to offsetting the projected weight as documented by Kittredge.? I know the stripped weight of the vessel is 3060 lbs, because I had it weighed at a CAT scale used by truckers which is suppose to be guaranteed accurate. My buoyancy calcs (inches) and results in pounds are:Main hull - 36 x 72 = 2712.96Main tank heads - 36 x .5625 = 66.5 each = 133Conning Tower - 24 x 18 = 301.44Battery Pod - 12 x 45 = 188.4 each = 376.8Battery Pod Tank Heads - 12 x .365 = -1.83 each = -7.32 Total potential buoyancy comes out to 3516.88 lbs.? Deducting the 3060 known weight of the steel leaves 456 lbs of buoyancy however there is easily more than 456 lbs of machinery, electrical, and plumbing components that will be added to the stripped hull.? For example, Kittredge used 8 lead-acid batteries with a combined weight of approximately 320 lbs, 200 lbs from three 1-ATM motor containers, 150 lbs drop weight, and then operator weight would produce a combined total of about 800 lbs additional weight not including electrical, plumbing, and instrument components. So from a weight perspective, 4000 to 4500 pounds sounds reasonable for a dive ready K-600.? But with only 3516 lbs of physical vessel buoyancy it would be 500 to 1000 pounds negatively buoyant which is obviously an impossible configuration.? Given that we know this submarine dived successfully, what am I doing wrong with my calculations? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 28 13:05:32 2022 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 17:05:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 buoyancy mystery In-Reply-To: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2030029851.3460883.1659027933004@mail.yahoo.com> I modeled a K350 awhile back.? It has a similar hull to K600.? I think your displacement for the Main tank heads is wrong.? These are semielliptical heads with a 4" skirt. Displacement should be 5.96 cu ft per head x 62.4 ft^3 = 371.9 lbs per head for total of 743.8 lbs not 133 lbs.? This would bring your freshwater displacement numbers to 4,127lbs. I think your battery pod displacements are low as well.? For K350, they are 442.5 lbs.? Also make sure you are adding displacement for any part that displaces water.? I am not sure you have accounted for all parts. Below is the buoyancy table for the modified K350 | Buoyancy and Center of Buoyancy Database | | | | | | | | | | | | | Modified K350 hull that these calculations were made from.? 36" OD x 72" Seam to Seam. On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:45:03 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm stuck on a buoyancy issue with the K-600.? The operating and service manuals state that the working weight of the vessel (dive ready) is 4500 pounds less operator.? However, when I calculate the buoyancy of the vessel based upon it's physical dimensions I don't even come close to offsetting the projected weight as documented by Kittredge.? I know the stripped weight of the vessel is 3060 lbs, because I had it weighed at a CAT scale used by truckers which is suppose to be guaranteed accurate. My buoyancy calcs (inches) and results in pounds are:Main hull - 36 x 72 = 2712.96Main tank heads - 36 x .5625 = 66.5 each = 133Conning Tower - 24 x 18 = 301.44Battery Pod - 12 x 45 = 188.4 each = 376.8Battery Pod Tank Heads - 12 x .365 = -1.83 each = -7.32 Total potential buoyancy comes out to 3516.88 lbs.? Deducting the 3060 known weight of the steel leaves 456 lbs of buoyancy however there is easily more than 456 lbs of machinery, electrical, and plumbing components that will be added to the stripped hull.? For example, Kittredge used 8 lead-acid batteries with a combined weight of approximately 320 lbs, 200 lbs from three 1-ATM motor containers, 150 lbs drop weight, and then operator weight would produce a combined total of about 800 lbs additional weight not including electrical, plumbing, and instrument components. So from a weight perspective, 4000 to 4500 pounds sounds reasonable for a dive ready K-600.? But with only 3516 lbs of physical vessel buoyancy it would be 500 to 1000 pounds negatively buoyant which is obviously an impossible configuration.? Given that we know this submarine dived successfully, what am I doing wrong with my calculations? Jon_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: 1659027860303blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 66440 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 28 13:07:54 2022 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 07:07:54 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 buoyancy mystery In-Reply-To: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, not sure about the other calc's but I just bought my 8 wet cell batteries yesterday and they were 61 lbs each = 488 lbs. Rick On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 5:45 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm stuck on a buoyancy issue with the K-600. The operating and service > manuals state that the working weight of the vessel (dive ready) is 4500 > pounds less operator. However, when I calculate the buoyancy of the vessel > based upon it's physical dimensions I don't even come close to offsetting > the projected weight as documented by Kittredge. I know the stripped > weight of the vessel is 3060 lbs, because I had it weighed at a CAT scale > used by truckers which is suppose to be guaranteed accurate. > > My buoyancy calcs (inches) and results in pounds are: > Main hull - 36 x 72 = 2712.96 > Main tank heads - 36 x .5625 = 66.5 each = 133 > Conning Tower - 24 x 18 = 301.44 > Battery Pod - 12 x 45 = 188.4 each = 376.8 > Battery Pod Tank Heads - 12 x .365 = -1.83 each = -7.32 > > Total potential buoyancy comes out to 3516.88 lbs. Deducting the 3060 > known weight of the steel leaves 456 lbs of buoyancy however there is > easily more than 456 lbs of machinery, electrical, and plumbing components > that will be added to the stripped hull. For example, Kittredge used 8 > lead-acid batteries with a combined weight of approximately 320 lbs, 200 > lbs from three 1-ATM motor containers, 150 lbs drop weight, and then > operator weight would produce a combined total of about 800 lbs additional > weight not including electrical, plumbing, and instrument components. > > So from a weight perspective, 4000 to 4500 pounds sounds reasonable for a > dive ready K-600. But with only 3516 lbs of physical vessel buoyancy it > would be 500 to 1000 pounds negatively buoyant which is obviously an > impossible configuration. Given that we know this submarine dived > successfully, what am I doing wrong with my calculations? > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 28 14:35:21 2022 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 18:35:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 buoyancy mystery In-Reply-To: <2030029851.3460883.1659027933004@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> <2030029851.3460883.1659027933004@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2085224190.3501898.1659033321829@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you Cliff, you got me back on track.? I was deducting the weight of the tank heads from their displacement which is unnecessary since I know the overall weight of the vessel from the CAT scales.? As such, all I need is the displacement of all the parts and then subtract the total known weight.? Also, I have been using 2 inch skirt on the tank heads which I think is correct for the battery pods but not for the main hull.? Recalculating the tank heads bring me to a total displacement of 4202 lbs which is definitely in the ball park that I would expect. Jon On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 01:09:26 PM EDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I modeled a K350 awhile back.? It has a similar hull to K600.? I think your displacement for the Main tank heads is wrong.? These are semielliptical heads with a 4" skirt. Displacement should be 5.96 cu ft per head x 62.4 ft^3 = 371.9 lbs per head for total of 743.8 lbs not 133 lbs.? This would bring your freshwater displacement numbers to 4,127lbs. I think your battery pod displacements are low as well.? For K350, they are 442.5 lbs.? Also make sure you are adding displacement for any part that displaces water.? I am not sure you have accounted for all parts. Below is the buoyancy table for the modified K350 | Buoyancy and Center of Buoyancy Database | | | | | | | | | | | | | Modified K350 hull that these calculations were made from.? 36" OD x 72" Seam to Seam. On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:45:03 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm stuck on a buoyancy issue with the K-600.? The operating and service manuals state that the working weight of the vessel (dive ready) is 4500 pounds less operator.? However, when I calculate the buoyancy of the vessel based upon it's physical dimensions I don't even come close to offsetting the projected weight as documented by Kittredge.? I know the stripped weight of the vessel is 3060 lbs, because I had it weighed at a CAT scale used by truckers which is suppose to be guaranteed accurate. My buoyancy calcs (inches) and results in pounds are:Main hull - 36 x 72 = 2712.96Main tank heads - 36 x .5625 = 66.5 each = 133Conning Tower - 24 x 18 = 301.44Battery Pod - 12 x 45 = 188.4 each = 376.8Battery Pod Tank Heads - 12 x .365 = -1.83 each = -7.32 Total potential buoyancy comes out to 3516.88 lbs.? Deducting the 3060 known weight of the steel leaves 456 lbs of buoyancy however there is easily more than 456 lbs of machinery, electrical, and plumbing components that will be added to the stripped hull.? For example, Kittredge used 8 lead-acid batteries with a combined weight of approximately 320 lbs, 200 lbs from three 1-ATM motor containers, 150 lbs drop weight, and then operator weight would produce a combined total of about 800 lbs additional weight not including electrical, plumbing, and instrument components. So from a weight perspective, 4000 to 4500 pounds sounds reasonable for a dive ready K-600.? But with only 3516 lbs of physical vessel buoyancy it would be 500 to 1000 pounds negatively buoyant which is obviously an impossible configuration.? Given that we know this submarine dived successfully, what am I doing wrong with my calculations? Jon_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1659027860303blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 66440 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1659027197876blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 160473 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1659027360744blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 231677 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jul 28 14:45:41 2022 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 18:45:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 buoyancy mystery In-Reply-To: References: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2119463652.3533906.1659033941578@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Rick.? Heavier than I thought.? What battery group are you using?? Kittredge reference a TITAN 6124 from General Battery which I believe is a Group 24.? He documented them as 85 amp/hr capacity. Jon On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 01:09:52 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, not sure about the other calc's but I just bought my 8 wet cell batteries yesterday and they were 61 lbs each = 488 lbs.? Rick On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 5:45 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm stuck on a buoyancy issue with the K-600.? The operating and service manuals state that the working weight of the vessel (dive ready) is 4500 pounds less operator.? However, when I calculate the buoyancy of the vessel based upon it's physical dimensions I don't even come close to offsetting the projected weight as documented by Kittredge.? I know the stripped weight of the vessel is 3060 lbs, because I had it weighed at a CAT scale used by truckers which is suppose to be guaranteed accurate. My buoyancy calcs (inches) and results in pounds are:Main hull - 36 x 72 = 2712.96Main tank heads - 36 x .5625 = 66.5 each = 133Conning Tower - 24 x 18 = 301.44Battery Pod - 12 x 45 = 188.4 each = 376.8Battery Pod Tank Heads - 12 x .365 = -1.83 each = -7.32 Total potential buoyancy comes out to 3516.88 lbs.? Deducting the 3060 known weight of the steel leaves 456 lbs of buoyancy however there is easily more than 456 lbs of machinery, electrical, and plumbing components that will be added to the stripped hull.? For example, Kittredge used 8 lead-acid batteries with a combined weight of approximately 320 lbs, 200 lbs from three 1-ATM motor containers, 150 lbs drop weight, and then operator weight would produce a combined total of about 800 lbs additional weight not including electrical, plumbing, and instrument components. So from a weight perspective, 4000 to 4500 pounds sounds reasonable for a dive ready K-600.? But with only 3516 lbs of physical vessel buoyancy it would be 500 to 1000 pounds negatively buoyant which is obviously an impossible configuration.? Given that we know this submarine dived successfully, what am I doing wrong with my calculations? Jon_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 30 09:00:02 2022 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:00:02 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 buoyancy mystery In-Reply-To: <2085224190.3501898.1659033321829@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> <2030029851.3460883.1659027933004@mail.yahoo.com> <2085224190.3501898.1659033321829@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon - If it helps, I ran weight and buoyancy calcs on one of the heads alone (per your description of 36" - I assumed ID because that is what head forming dies are based on, x 0.5625" wall thickness). Straight flange length per ABS spec because my program didn't have a field to customize that. Results in in-line image below. Sean [image.png] ------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, July 28th, 2022 at 12:35 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thank you Cliff, you got me back on track. I was deducting the weight of the tank heads from their displacement which is unnecessary since I know the overall weight of the vessel from the CAT scales. As such, all I need is the displacement of all the parts and then subtract the total known weight. Also, I have been using 2 inch skirt on the tank heads which I think is correct for the battery pods but not for the main hull. Recalculating the tank heads bring me to a total displacement of 4202 lbs which is definitely in the ball park that I would expect. > > Jon > > On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 01:09:26 PM EDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I modeled a K350 awhile back. It has a similar hull to K600. I think your displacement for the Main tank heads is wrong. These are semielliptical heads with a 4" skirt. Displacement should be 5.96 cu ft per head x 62.4 ft^3 = 371.9 lbs per head for total of 743.8 lbs not 133 lbs. This would bring your freshwater displacement numbers to 4,127lbs. > > I think your battery pod displacements are low as well. For K350, they are 442.5 lbs. Also make sure you are adding displacement for any part that displaces water. I am not sure you have accounted for all parts. > > Below is the buoyancy table for the modified K350 > [Inline image] > > Buoyancy and Center of Buoyancy Database > > [Inline image] > Modified K350 hull that these calculations were made from. 36" OD x 72" Seam to Seam. > [Inline image] > > On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:45:03 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm stuck on a buoyancy issue with the K-600. The operating and service manuals state that the working weight of the vessel (dive ready) is 4500 pounds less operator. However, when I calculate the buoyancy of the vessel based upon it's physical dimensions I don't even come close to offsetting the projected weight as documented by Kittredge. I know the stripped weight of the vessel is 3060 lbs, because I had it weighed at a CAT scale used by truckers which is suppose to be guaranteed accurate. > > My buoyancy calcs (inches) and results in pounds are: > Main hull - 36 x 72 = 2712.96 > Main tank heads - 36 x .5625 = 66.5 each = 133 > Conning Tower - 24 x 18 = 301.44 > Battery Pod - 12 x 45 = 188.4 each = 376.8 > Battery Pod Tank Heads - 12 x .365 = -1.83 each = -7.32 > > Total potential buoyancy comes out to 3516.88 lbs. Deducting the 3060 known weight of the steel leaves 456 lbs of buoyancy however there is easily more than 456 lbs of machinery, electrical, and plumbing components that will be added to the stripped hull. For example, Kittredge used 8 lead-acid batteries with a combined weight of approximately 320 lbs, 200 lbs from three 1-ATM motor containers, 150 lbs drop weight, and then operator weight would produce a combined total of about 800 lbs additional weight not including electrical, plumbing, and instrument components. > > So from a weight perspective, 4000 to 4500 pounds sounds reasonable for a dive ready K-600. But with only 3516 lbs of physical vessel buoyancy it would be 500 to 1000 pounds negatively buoyant which is obviously an impossible configuration. Given that we know this submarine dived successfully, what am I doing wrong with my calculations? > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1659027860303blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 66440 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1659027197876blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 160473 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1659027360744blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 231677 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 116812 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jul 30 15:51:40 2022 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 19:51:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-600 buoyancy mystery In-Reply-To: References: <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1192358075.3432420.1659022938571@mail.yahoo.com> <2030029851.3460883.1659027933004@mail.yahoo.com> <2085224190.3501898.1659033321829@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <401964755.4308052.1659210700497@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean, thanks for doing a sanity test for me.? Yes, the diameter specification is I.D., and your calculator matches my calculation almost exactly which was 301.6 using a 2 inch skirt.? But I think Cliff is correct that a 36 inch elliptical head has a longer skirt (flange) and therefore provides even more buoyancy.? Regardless, my mistake was to deduct the weight of all the tank heads twice which caused my initial calculation of total buoyancy for the vessel to be much lower. Love your software and I see you have updated it to include tank heads.? The one we have on the website is cylinders only. Jon On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 09:03:55 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon - If it helps, I ran weight and buoyancy calcs on one of the heads alone (per your description of 36" - I assumed ID because that is what head forming dies are based on, x 0.5625" wall thickness).? Straight flange length per ABS spec because my program didn't have a field to customize that.? Results in in-line image below. Sean ------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, July 28th, 2022 at 12:35 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thank you Cliff, you got me back on track.? I was deducting the weight of the tank heads from their displacement which is unnecessary since I know the overall weight of the vessel from the CAT scales.? As such, all I need is the displacement of all the parts and then subtract the total known weight.? Also, I have been using 2 inch skirt on the tank heads which I think is correct for the battery pods but not for the main hull.? Recalculating the tank heads bring me to a total displacement of 4202 lbs which is definitely in the ball park that I would expect. Jon On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 01:09:26 PM EDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I modeled a K350 awhile back.? It has a similar hull to K600.? I think your displacement for the Main tank heads is wrong.? These are semielliptical heads with a 4" skirt. Displacement should be 5.96 cu ft per head x 62.4 ft^3 = 371.9 lbs per head for total of 743.8 lbs not 133 lbs.? This would bring your freshwater displacement numbers to 4,127lbs. I think your battery pod displacements are low as well.? For K350, they are 442.5 lbs.? Also make sure you are adding displacement for any part that displaces water.? I am not sure you have accounted for all parts. Below is the buoyancy table for the modified K350 | Buoyancy and Center of Buoyancy Database | | | | | | | | | | | | | Modified K350 hull that these calculations were made from.? 36" OD x 72" Seam to Seam. On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:45:03 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'm stuck on a buoyancy issue with the K-600.? The operating and service manuals state that the working weight of the vessel (dive ready) is 4500 pounds less operator.? However, when I calculate the buoyancy of the vessel based upon it's physical dimensions I don't even come close to offsetting the projected weight as documented by Kittredge.? I know the stripped weight of the vessel is 3060 lbs, because I had it weighed at a CAT scale used by truckers which is suppose to be guaranteed accurate. My buoyancy calcs (inches) and results in pounds are:Main hull - 36 x 72 = 2712.96Main tank heads - 36 x .5625 = 66.5 each = 133Conning Tower - 24 x 18 = 301.44Battery Pod - 12 x 45 = 188.4 each = 376.8Battery Pod Tank Heads - 12 x .365 = -1.83 each = -7.32 Total potential buoyancy comes out to 3516.88 lbs.? Deducting the 3060 known weight of the steel leaves 456 lbs of buoyancy however there is easily more than 456 lbs of machinery, electrical, and plumbing components that will be added to the stripped hull.? For example, Kittredge used 8 lead-acid batteries with a combined weight of approximately 320 lbs, 200 lbs from three 1-ATM motor containers, 150 lbs drop weight, and then operator weight would produce a combined total of about 800 lbs additional weight not including electrical, plumbing, and instrument components. So from a weight perspective, 4000 to 4500 pounds sounds reasonable for a dive ready K-600.? But with only 3516 lbs of physical vessel buoyancy it would be 500 to 1000 pounds negatively buoyant which is obviously an impossible configuration.? Given that we know this submarine dived successfully, what am I doing wrong with my calculations? Jon_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1659027860303blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 66440 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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