From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 01:06:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2020 15:06:15 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass work k-250 mbt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Styrofoam is the problem, the timber is quite easy to surface and achieve a reasonable finish to mold from, i often make temporary molds from custom wood and brush on between 5 and 8 layers of polyester resin which in warm weather is usually achieved in a day, once cured i sand, polish and wax up... styro foam however is not going to like polyester at all... you could use the same method as i have discribed but coat the foam, and the ply for that matter with an epoxy resin then transition to a polyester by first coating the initial few coats of epoxy with a couple of coats of vinyl easter resin, this allows you to carry on with cheaper poly easter which is easier to sand etc. Or you could do the whole coating process with epoxy, i just find polyester easier to work and a lot cheaper. The other option is coating the foam with tape to get a rough part off then clean that up to get a mold proper... Mike. On Tue, 1 Sep. 2020, 12:04 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi David, > > > > I'm looking to make a mold with plywood and foam. I have a good idea how > to make It, but no idea how to have a good finish on it. > > I'm wondering what product to use to cover the Styrofoam and wood of the > mold, I don't want the fiberglass sticking to my mold. > > > Regards > > > > Philippe > > Le dim. 30 ao?t 2020 ? 15:31, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : > >> Hi Philippe, Are you looking to make the mold as a plug or a one off >> part. Let me know and I can give you some tips. >> >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> 804 College Ave >> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> (707) 536-1424 >> www.SeaQuestor.com >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:42 AM Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I would like to know if someone has experience in fiberglass making. I >>> am looking for a starting point for making a kind of mold to construct the >>> mbt. Have never work with fiberglass before. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Philippe >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 07:59:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2020 11:59:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Resistor References: <64076415.1392304.1598961546817.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <64076415.1392304.1598961546817@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Kieth,Can you tell me the size of variable resistor I need again. ?I can not find what you suggested at Digit-Key Thanks?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 09:37:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 06:37:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Resistor In-Reply-To: <64076415.1392304.1598961546817@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <202009011312.081DC8FY086939@whoweb.com> Hank, Try this: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PDB181-E415K-102B?qs=Zq5ylnUbLm6Geetxd75ulg%3D%3D If it doesn't cut the volume enough you can solder a resister ahead of the pot. Keith T -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 9/1/20 4:59 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Resistor Hi Kieth,Can you tell me the size of variable resistor I need again. ?I can not find what you suggested at Digit-Key Thanks?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 13:53:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2020 13:53:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass work k-250 mbt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike, I don't figure how to make the mold from timber ? Maybe many cut of plywood ? Philippe Le mar. 1 sept. 2020 ? 01:07, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : > Styrofoam is the problem, the timber is quite easy to surface and achieve > a reasonable finish to mold from, i often make temporary molds from custom > wood and brush on between 5 and 8 layers of polyester resin which in warm > weather is usually achieved in a day, once cured i sand, polish and wax > up... styro foam however is not going to like polyester at all... you could > use the same method as i have discribed but coat the foam, and the ply for > that matter with an epoxy resin then transition to a polyester by first > coating the initial few coats of epoxy with a couple of coats of vinyl > easter resin, this allows you to carry on with cheaper poly easter which is > easier to sand etc. Or you could do the whole coating process with epoxy, i > just find polyester easier to work and a lot cheaper. > > The other option is coating the foam with tape to get a rough part off > then clean that up to get a mold proper... > > Mike. > > On Tue, 1 Sep. 2020, 12:04 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi David, >> >> >> >> I'm looking to make a mold with plywood and foam. I have a good idea how >> to make It, but no idea how to have a good finish on it. >> >> I'm wondering what product to use to cover the Styrofoam and wood of the >> mold, I don't want the fiberglass sticking to my mold. >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> Philippe >> >> Le dim. 30 ao?t 2020 ? 15:31, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >> >>> Hi Philippe, Are you looking to make the mold as a plug or a one off >>> part. Let me know and I can give you some tips. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> David Colombo >>> >>> 804 College Ave >>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>> (707) 536-1424 >>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:42 AM Philippe Robert via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I would like to know if someone has experience in fiberglass making. I >>>> am looking for a starting point for making a kind of mold to construct the >>>> mbt. Have never work with fiberglass before. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Philippe >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 16:47:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2020 20:47:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Resistor In-Reply-To: <202009011312.081DC8FY086939@whoweb.com> References: <64076415.1392304.1598961546817@mail.yahoo.com> <202009011312.081DC8FY086939@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <385767543.1724836.1598993221999@mail.yahoo.com> Kieth,Thanks, I will get one, maybe two. ?They are 1.71 dollars, even I can afford a spare lol.Hank On Tuesday, September 1, 2020, 7:37:44 AM MDT, k6fee via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Try this: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PDB181-E415K-102B?qs=Zq5ylnUbLm6Geetxd75ulg%3D%3D If it doesn't cut the volume enough you can solder a resister ahead of the pot. Keith T -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 9/1/20 4:59 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Resistor Hi Kieth,Can you tell me the size of variable resistor I need again. ?I can not find what you suggested at Digit-Key Thanks?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 1 17:09:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2020 07:09:13 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass work k-250 mbt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What shape are you looking to make? Mike On Wed, 2 Sep. 2020, 3:54 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > I don't figure how to make the mold from timber ? Maybe many cut > of plywood ? > > Philippe > > Le mar. 1 sept. 2020 ? 01:07, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : > >> Styrofoam is the problem, the timber is quite easy to surface and achieve >> a reasonable finish to mold from, i often make temporary molds from custom >> wood and brush on between 5 and 8 layers of polyester resin which in warm >> weather is usually achieved in a day, once cured i sand, polish and wax >> up... styro foam however is not going to like polyester at all... you could >> use the same method as i have discribed but coat the foam, and the ply for >> that matter with an epoxy resin then transition to a polyester by first >> coating the initial few coats of epoxy with a couple of coats of vinyl >> easter resin, this allows you to carry on with cheaper poly easter which is >> easier to sand etc. Or you could do the whole coating process with epoxy, i >> just find polyester easier to work and a lot cheaper. >> >> The other option is coating the foam with tape to get a rough part off >> then clean that up to get a mold proper... >> >> Mike. >> >> On Tue, 1 Sep. 2020, 12:04 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi David, >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm looking to make a mold with plywood and foam. I have a good idea how >>> to make It, but no idea how to have a good finish on it. >>> >>> I'm wondering what product to use to cover the Styrofoam and wood of the >>> mold, I don't want the fiberglass sticking to my mold. >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> >>> Philippe >>> >>> Le dim. 30 ao?t 2020 ? 15:31, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >>> >>>> Hi Philippe, Are you looking to make the mold as a plug or a one off >>>> part. Let me know and I can give you some tips. >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> David Colombo >>>> >>>> 804 College Ave >>>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>>> (707) 536-1424 >>>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:42 AM Philippe Robert via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I would like to know if someone has experience in fiberglass making. I >>>>> am looking for a starting point for making a kind of mold to construct the >>>>> mbt. Have never work with fiberglass before. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Philippe >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 07:54:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2020 12:54:55 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass work k-250 mbt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Phillippe. I made a glass fibre plug and mould last summer for a completely different, not submarine related project, but the principle is the same. This was the first time i had done this but it turned out ok. 1. Make a plug out of anything more or less. I used wood and covered it with plaster of paris. I made this spinning shape thing to scoop the plaster into the correct shape. Key is to sand the plaster utterly smooth. Even the tiniest scratch will show on the mould and eventually your part. 2. Cover with wax, gelcoat and then glass fibre. 3. Pop out the plug (difficult as the glass shrinks onto the plug). 4. Polish and wax the mould. 5. Cover the mould with gelcoat, then glass fibre. 6. Pop it out. (easier as the part tends to shrink away from the mould. There are lots of people with more expertise, but I didnt find it too hard. I would just crack on and give it a go. Maybe read up on some fibreglassing web sites. Once you have a decent mould, you can bang out plenty of the parts. Have a look at these pics. 1. Initial wood and spinner. 2. Covered in plaster. 3. Making mould. 4. Mould done and polished. 5. Filling mould to make part. 6. Finished part just out of mould. Needs polishing. [image: Untitled.png] might help? Regards James On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:10, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > What shape are you looking to make? > > Mike > > On Wed, 2 Sep. 2020, 3:54 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> >> I don't figure how to make the mold from timber ? Maybe many cut >> of plywood ? >> >> Philippe >> >> Le mar. 1 sept. 2020 ? 01:07, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >> >>> Styrofoam is the problem, the timber is quite easy to surface and >>> achieve a reasonable finish to mold from, i often make temporary molds from >>> custom wood and brush on between 5 and 8 layers of polyester resin which in >>> warm weather is usually achieved in a day, once cured i sand, polish and >>> wax up... styro foam however is not going to like polyester at all... you >>> could use the same method as i have discribed but coat the foam, and the >>> ply for that matter with an epoxy resin then transition to a polyester by >>> first coating the initial few coats of epoxy with a couple of coats of >>> vinyl easter resin, this allows you to carry on with cheaper poly easter >>> which is easier to sand etc. Or you could do the whole coating process with >>> epoxy, i just find polyester easier to work and a lot cheaper. >>> >>> The other option is coating the foam with tape to get a rough part off >>> then clean that up to get a mold proper... >>> >>> Mike. >>> >>> On Tue, 1 Sep. 2020, 12:04 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm looking to make a mold with plywood and foam. I have a good idea >>>> how to make It, but no idea how to have a good finish on it. >>>> >>>> I'm wondering what product to use to cover the Styrofoam and wood of >>>> the mold, I don't want the fiberglass sticking to my mold. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Philippe >>>> >>>> Le dim. 30 ao?t 2020 ? 15:31, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >>>> >>>>> Hi Philippe, Are you looking to make the mold as a plug or a one off >>>>> part. Let me know and I can give you some tips. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> David Colombo >>>>> >>>>> 804 College Ave >>>>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>>>> (707) 536-1424 >>>>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:42 AM Philippe Robert via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to know if someone has experience in fiberglass making. >>>>>> I am looking for a starting point for making a kind of mold to construct >>>>>> the mbt. Have never work with fiberglass before. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Philippe >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Untitled.png Type: image/png Size: 1535813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 11:59:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2020 11:59:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass work k-250 mbt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, I would like to make a mold for my K-250 MBT. James, nice work ! I think to make a plug and use it as the mold. My plan is to make whole front and rear MBT plug and use it to simply put fiberglass work on it. Le mer. 2 sept. 2020 ? 07:56, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : > Hi Phillippe. > > I made a glass fibre plug and mould last summer for a completely > different, not submarine related project, but the principle is the same. > This was the first time i had done this but it turned out ok. > > 1. Make a plug out of anything more or less. I used wood and covered it > with plaster of paris. I made this spinning shape thing to scoop the > plaster into the correct shape. Key is to sand the plaster utterly > smooth. Even the tiniest scratch will show on the mould and eventually > your part. > 2. Cover with wax, gelcoat and then glass fibre. > 3. Pop out the plug (difficult as the glass shrinks onto the plug). > 4. Polish and wax the mould. > 5. Cover the mould with gelcoat, then glass fibre. > 6. Pop it out. (easier as the part tends to shrink away from the mould. > > There are lots of people with more expertise, but I didnt find it too > hard. I would just crack on and give it a go. Maybe read up on some > fibreglassing web sites. Once you have a decent mould, you can bang out > plenty of the parts. > > Have a look at these pics. > > 1. Initial wood and spinner. > 2. Covered in plaster. > 3. Making mould. > 4. Mould done and polished. > 5. Filling mould to make part. > 6. Finished part just out of mould. Needs polishing. > > [image: Untitled.png] > might help? > Regards > James > > > On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:10, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> What shape are you looking to make? >> >> Mike >> >> On Wed, 2 Sep. 2020, 3:54 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> I don't figure how to make the mold from timber ? Maybe many cut >>> of plywood ? >>> >>> Philippe >>> >>> Le mar. 1 sept. 2020 ? 01:07, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >>> >>>> Styrofoam is the problem, the timber is quite easy to surface and >>>> achieve a reasonable finish to mold from, i often make temporary molds from >>>> custom wood and brush on between 5 and 8 layers of polyester resin which in >>>> warm weather is usually achieved in a day, once cured i sand, polish and >>>> wax up... styro foam however is not going to like polyester at all... you >>>> could use the same method as i have discribed but coat the foam, and the >>>> ply for that matter with an epoxy resin then transition to a polyester by >>>> first coating the initial few coats of epoxy with a couple of coats of >>>> vinyl easter resin, this allows you to carry on with cheaper poly easter >>>> which is easier to sand etc. Or you could do the whole coating process with >>>> epoxy, i just find polyester easier to work and a lot cheaper. >>>> >>>> The other option is coating the foam with tape to get a rough part off >>>> then clean that up to get a mold proper... >>>> >>>> Mike. >>>> >>>> On Tue, 1 Sep. 2020, 12:04 am Philippe Robert via >>>> Personal_Submersibles, wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi David, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking to make a mold with plywood and foam. I have a good idea >>>>> how to make It, but no idea how to have a good finish on it. >>>>> >>>>> I'm wondering what product to use to cover the Styrofoam and wood of >>>>> the mold, I don't want the fiberglass sticking to my mold. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Philippe >>>>> >>>>> Le dim. 30 ao?t 2020 ? 15:31, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Philippe, Are you looking to make the mold as a plug or a one off >>>>>> part. Let me know and I can give you some tips. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>> David Colombo >>>>>> >>>>>> 804 College Ave >>>>>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>>>>> (707) 536-1424 >>>>>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:42 AM Philippe Robert via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to know if someone has experience in fiberglass making. >>>>>>> I am looking for a starting point for making a kind of mold to construct >>>>>>> the mbt. Have never work with fiberglass before. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Philippe >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Untitled.png Type: image/png Size: 1535813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 12:53:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2020 09:53:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass work k-250 mbt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Phillippe, The method that I am using on the Seaquestor is that I am building a plug if you will out of styrofoam that I have cut with a hot wire rig. Using a hot wire rig once mastered will give you a really clean surface to begin your finish. The styrofoam is a soft material and it is subject to be easily damaged by anything. I have found that using drywall mud as a skim coat layered on the foam gives the foam a bit of a harder shell to work with and is easy to sand to a reasonable finish surface. Once the mud has been shaped to my desire, an epoxy coating overtop will give it a hard shell, but also need to be finished of imperfections if you are going to cast a mold and then pull a part from the mold. That being said, my preference is to cover the hardened mud with a layer of alum foil applied with spray glue adhesive. Once covered, wax it up and add a coat of PVA release. Then make the mold. When you are ready to pull a part from the mold, make sure that the initial layer of gelcoat is two layers. I say this as the foil layup process will leave micro imperfections in the surface of the part that will need to be finished just like doing body work on a car. The choice is to spend a lot of time and money getting the perfect mold surface from which you are only going to pull one part, OR get thru the part creation as cheaply and quickly as possible and do finish sanding on the actual part. With the SeaQuestor, I have about 200sqft of surface area with complex and compound curves, from which I am only pulling one part, and the mold is made up of many segments to make the part and to be able to demold it. There have been a lot of good suggestions in this thread. My advice is to some the materials and create a testboard, and try different methods to create a small part, even if it is a flat sheet. Any time you can get to practice the layup process prior to the actual part is a good thing as there is a lot to learn, and once the process is started best to have a little bit of practice or you will have a pile of throw away parts. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:01 AM Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Mike, I would like to make a mold for my K-250 MBT. > > James, nice work ! I think to make a plug and use it as the mold. My plan > is to make whole front and rear MBT plug and use it to simply put > fiberglass work on it. > > Le mer. 2 sept. 2020 ? 07:56, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : > >> Hi Phillippe. >> >> I made a glass fibre plug and mould last summer for a completely >> different, not submarine related project, but the principle is the same. >> This was the first time i had done this but it turned out ok. >> >> 1. Make a plug out of anything more or less. I used wood and covered it >> with plaster of paris. I made this spinning shape thing to scoop the >> plaster into the correct shape. Key is to sand the plaster utterly >> smooth. Even the tiniest scratch will show on the mould and eventually >> your part. >> 2. Cover with wax, gelcoat and then glass fibre. >> 3. Pop out the plug (difficult as the glass shrinks onto the plug). >> 4. Polish and wax the mould. >> 5. Cover the mould with gelcoat, then glass fibre. >> 6. Pop it out. (easier as the part tends to shrink away from the mould. >> >> There are lots of people with more expertise, but I didnt find it too >> hard. I would just crack on and give it a go. Maybe read up on some >> fibreglassing web sites. Once you have a decent mould, you can bang out >> plenty of the parts. >> >> Have a look at these pics. >> >> 1. Initial wood and spinner. >> 2. Covered in plaster. >> 3. Making mould. >> 4. Mould done and polished. >> 5. Filling mould to make part. >> 6. Finished part just out of mould. Needs polishing. >> >> [image: Untitled.png] >> might help? >> Regards >> James >> >> >> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:10, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> What shape are you looking to make? >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> On Wed, 2 Sep. 2020, 3:54 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Mike, >>>> >>>> I don't figure how to make the mold from timber ? Maybe many cut >>>> of plywood ? >>>> >>>> Philippe >>>> >>>> Le mar. 1 sept. 2020 ? 01:07, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >>>> >>>>> Styrofoam is the problem, the timber is quite easy to surface and >>>>> achieve a reasonable finish to mold from, i often make temporary molds from >>>>> custom wood and brush on between 5 and 8 layers of polyester resin which in >>>>> warm weather is usually achieved in a day, once cured i sand, polish and >>>>> wax up... styro foam however is not going to like polyester at all... you >>>>> could use the same method as i have discribed but coat the foam, and the >>>>> ply for that matter with an epoxy resin then transition to a polyester by >>>>> first coating the initial few coats of epoxy with a couple of coats of >>>>> vinyl easter resin, this allows you to carry on with cheaper poly easter >>>>> which is easier to sand etc. Or you could do the whole coating process with >>>>> epoxy, i just find polyester easier to work and a lot cheaper. >>>>> >>>>> The other option is coating the foam with tape to get a rough part off >>>>> then clean that up to get a mold proper... >>>>> >>>>> Mike. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 1 Sep. 2020, 12:04 am Philippe Robert via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles, wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm looking to make a mold with plywood and foam. I have a good idea >>>>>> how to make It, but no idea how to have a good finish on it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm wondering what product to use to cover the Styrofoam and wood of >>>>>> the mold, I don't want the fiberglass sticking to my mold. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Philippe >>>>>> >>>>>> Le dim. 30 ao?t 2020 ? 15:31, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> a ?crit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Philippe, Are you looking to make the mold as a plug or a one off >>>>>>> part. Let me know and I can give you some tips. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>> David Colombo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 804 College Ave >>>>>>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>>>>>> (707) 536-1424 >>>>>>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:42 AM Philippe Robert via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would like to know if someone has experience in fiberglass >>>>>>>> making. I am looking for a starting point for making a kind of mold to >>>>>>>> construct the mbt. Have never work with fiberglass before. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Philippe >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Untitled.png Type: image/png Size: 1535813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 2 13:09:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2020 17:09:09 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass work k-250 mbt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The method outlined here has some advantages in that the plug, no matter how complicated with regard to compound curvature, if designed with CAD software, can easily be sliced into cross sectional profiles at the same spacing as the width of e.g. available polystyrene sheets, and said sheets can be CNC cut on an XY table (mill, water jet or hot wire) using those 2D profiles and then laminated to create a very good approximation of the final form, with only the stepped edges to be filled and dressed. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 2, 2020, 10:53, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Phillippe, > The method that I am using on the Seaquestor is that I am building a plug if you will out of styrofoam that I have cut with a hot wire rig. Using a hot wire rig once mastered will give you a really clean surface to begin your finish. The styrofoam is a soft material and it is subject to be easily damaged by anything. I have found that using drywall mud as a skim coat layered on the foam gives the foam a bit of a harder shell to work with and is easy to sand to a reasonable finish surface. Once the mud has been shaped to my desire, an epoxy coating overtop will give it a hard shell, but also need to be finished of imperfections if you are going to cast a mold and then pull a part from the mold. That being said, my preference is to cover the hardened mud with a layer of alum foil applied with spray glue adhesive. Once covered, wax it up and add a coat of PVA release. Then make the mold. When you are ready to pull a part from the mold, make sure that the initial layer of gelcoat is two layers. I say this as the foil layup process will leave micro imperfections in the surface of the part that will need to be finished just like doing body work on a car. The choice is to spend a lot of time and money getting the perfect mold surface from which you are only going to pull one part, OR get thru the part creation as cheaply and quickly as possible and do finish sanding on the actual part. With the SeaQuestor, I have about 200sqft of surface area with complex and compound curves, from which I am only pulling one part, and the mold is made up of many segments to make the part and to be able to demold it. There have been a lot of good suggestions in this thread. My advice is to some the materials and create a testboard, and try different methods to create a small part, even if it is a flat sheet. Any time you can get to practice the layup process prior to the actual part is a good thing as there is a lot to learn, and once the process is started best to have a little bit of practice or you will have a pile of throw away parts. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:01 AM Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Mike, I would like to make a mold for my K-250 MBT. >> >> James, nice work ! I think to make a plug and use it as the mold. My plan is to make whole front and rear MBT plug and use it to simply put fiberglass work on it. >> >> Le mer. 2 sept. 2020 ? 07:56, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : >> >>> Hi Phillippe. >>> >>> I made a glass fibre plug and mould last summer for a completely different, not submarine related project, but the principle is the same. This was the first time i had done this but it turned out ok. >>> >>> 1. Make a plug out of anything more or less. I used wood and covered it with plaster of paris. I made this spinning shape thing to scoop the plaster into the correct shape. Key is to sand the plaster utterly smooth. Even the tiniest scratch will show on the mould and eventually your part. >>> 2. Cover with wax, gelcoat and then glass fibre. >>> 3. Pop out the plug (difficult as the glass shrinks onto the plug). >>> 4. Polish and wax the mould. >>> 5. Cover the mould with gelcoat, then glass fibre. >>> 6. Pop it out. (easier as the part tends to shrink away from the mould. >>> >>> There are lots of people with more expertise, but I didnt find it too hard. I would just crack on and give it a go. Maybe read up on some fibreglassing web sites. Once you have a decent mould, you can bang out plenty of the parts. >>> >>> Have a look at these pics. >>> >>> 1. Initial wood and spinner. >>> 2. Covered in plaster. >>> 3. Making mould. >>> 4. Mould done and polished. >>> 5. Filling mould to make part. >>> 6. Finished part just out of mould. Needs polishing. >>> >>> [Untitled.png] >>> might help? >>> Regards >>> James >>> >>> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:10, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> What shape are you looking to make? >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> On Wed, 2 Sep. 2020, 3:54 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>> >>>>> I don't figure how to make the mold from timber ? Maybe many cut of plywood ? >>>>> >>>>> Philippe >>>>> >>>>> Le mar. 1 sept. 2020 ? 01:07, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : >>>>> >>>>>> Styrofoam is the problem, the timber is quite easy to surface and achieve a reasonable finish to mold from, i often make temporary molds from custom wood and brush on between 5 and 8 layers of polyester resin which in warm weather is usually achieved in a day, once cured i sand, polish and wax up... styro foam however is not going to like polyester at all... you could use the same method as i have discribed but coat the foam, and the ply for that matter with an epoxy resin then transition to a polyester by first coating the initial few coats of epoxy with a couple of coats of vinyl easter resin, this allows you to carry on with cheaper poly easter which is easier to sand etc. Or you could do the whole coating process with epoxy, i just find polyester easier to work and a lot cheaper. >>>>>> >>>>>> The other option is coating the foam with tape to get a rough part off then clean that up to get a mold proper... >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Sep. 2020, 12:04 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm looking to make a mold with plywood and foam. I have a good idea how to make It, but no idea how to have a good finish on it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm wondering what product to use to cover the Styrofoam and wood of the mold, I don't want the fiberglass sticking to my mold. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Philippe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Le dim. 30 ao?t 2020 ? 15:31, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Philippe, Are you looking to make the mold as a plug or a one off part. Let me know and I can give you some tips. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>>> David Colombo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 804 College Ave >>>>>>>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>>>>>>> (707) 536-1424 >>>>>>>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:42 AM Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like to know if someone has experience in fiberglass making. I am looking for a starting point for making a kind of mold to construct the mbt. Have never work with fiberglass before. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Philippe >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Untitled.png Type: image/png Size: 1535813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 01:24:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 15:24:49 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass work k-250 mbt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thats a good system David, i have done similar plugs/molds using drywall mud over different substrates but rather than epoxy I've brushed on several layers of LSE polyester resin, up to 6-8 coats in one day which can then be sanded back and polished to a high shine finish, assuming the time has first been spent fairing up the mud layer to a reasonably good finish. The polyester is easier to work and a fair bit cheaper than epoxy... I have managed to get quite a few releases off some of the more straight forward shapes... Mike On Thu, 3 Sep. 2020, 2:55 am David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles, < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Phillippe, > The method that I am using on the Seaquestor is that I am building a plug > if you will out of styrofoam that I have cut with a hot wire rig. Using a > hot wire rig once mastered will give you a really clean surface to begin > your finish. The styrofoam is a soft material and it is subject to be > easily damaged by anything. I have found that using drywall mud as a skim > coat layered on the foam gives the foam a bit of a harder shell to work > with and is easy to sand to a reasonable finish surface. Once the mud has > been shaped to my desire, an epoxy coating overtop will give it a hard > shell, but also need to be finished of imperfections if you are going to > cast a mold and then pull a part from the mold. That being said, my > preference is to cover the hardened mud with a layer of alum foil applied > with spray glue adhesive. Once covered, wax it up and add a coat of PVA > release. Then make the mold. When you are ready to pull a part from the > mold, make sure that the initial layer of gelcoat is two layers. I say this > as the foil layup process will leave micro imperfections in the surface of > the part that will need to be finished just like doing body work on a car. > The choice is to spend a lot of time and money getting the perfect mold > surface from which you are only going to pull one part, OR get thru the > part creation as cheaply and quickly as possible and do finish sanding on > the actual part. With the SeaQuestor, I have about 200sqft of surface area > with complex and compound curves, from which I am only pulling one part, > and the mold is made up of many segments to make the part and to be able to > demold it. There have been a lot of good suggestions in this thread. My > advice is to some the materials and create a testboard, and try different > methods to create a small part, even if it is a flat sheet. Any time you > can get to practice the layup process prior to the actual part is a good > thing as there is a lot to learn, and once the process is started best to > have a little bit of practice or you will have a pile of throw away parts. > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:01 AM Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Mike, I would like to make a mold for my K-250 MBT. >> >> James, nice work ! I think to make a plug and use it as the mold. My plan >> is to make whole front and rear MBT plug and use it to simply put >> fiberglass work on it. >> >> Le mer. 2 sept. 2020 ? 07:56, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >> >>> Hi Phillippe. >>> >>> I made a glass fibre plug and mould last summer for a completely >>> different, not submarine related project, but the principle is the same. >>> This was the first time i had done this but it turned out ok. >>> >>> 1. Make a plug out of anything more or less. I used wood and covered >>> it with plaster of paris. I made this spinning shape thing to scoop the >>> plaster into the correct shape. Key is to sand the plaster utterly >>> smooth. Even the tiniest scratch will show on the mould and eventually >>> your part. >>> 2. Cover with wax, gelcoat and then glass fibre. >>> 3. Pop out the plug (difficult as the glass shrinks onto the plug). >>> 4. Polish and wax the mould. >>> 5. Cover the mould with gelcoat, then glass fibre. >>> 6. Pop it out. (easier as the part tends to shrink away from the mould. >>> >>> There are lots of people with more expertise, but I didnt find it too >>> hard. I would just crack on and give it a go. Maybe read up on some >>> fibreglassing web sites. Once you have a decent mould, you can bang out >>> plenty of the parts. >>> >>> Have a look at these pics. >>> >>> 1. Initial wood and spinner. >>> 2. Covered in plaster. >>> 3. Making mould. >>> 4. Mould done and polished. >>> 5. Filling mould to make part. >>> 6. Finished part just out of mould. Needs polishing. >>> >>> [image: Untitled.png] >>> might help? >>> Regards >>> James >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:10, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> What shape are you looking to make? >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> On Wed, 2 Sep. 2020, 3:54 am Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles, >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>> >>>>> I don't figure how to make the mold from timber ? Maybe many cut >>>>> of plywood ? >>>>> >>>>> Philippe >>>>> >>>>> Le mar. 1 sept. 2020 ? 01:07, Michael Dell via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> a ?crit : >>>>> >>>>>> Styrofoam is the problem, the timber is quite easy to surface and >>>>>> achieve a reasonable finish to mold from, i often make temporary molds from >>>>>> custom wood and brush on between 5 and 8 layers of polyester resin which in >>>>>> warm weather is usually achieved in a day, once cured i sand, polish and >>>>>> wax up... styro foam however is not going to like polyester at all... you >>>>>> could use the same method as i have discribed but coat the foam, and the >>>>>> ply for that matter with an epoxy resin then transition to a polyester by >>>>>> first coating the initial few coats of epoxy with a couple of coats of >>>>>> vinyl easter resin, this allows you to carry on with cheaper poly easter >>>>>> which is easier to sand etc. Or you could do the whole coating process with >>>>>> epoxy, i just find polyester easier to work and a lot cheaper. >>>>>> >>>>>> The other option is coating the foam with tape to get a rough part >>>>>> off then clean that up to get a mold proper... >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Sep. 2020, 12:04 am Philippe Robert via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles, wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm looking to make a mold with plywood and foam. I have a good idea >>>>>>> how to make It, but no idea how to have a good finish on it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm wondering what product to use to cover the Styrofoam and wood of >>>>>>> the mold, I don't want the fiberglass sticking to my mold. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Philippe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Le dim. 30 ao?t 2020 ? 15:31, David Colombo via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Philippe, Are you looking to make the mold as a plug or a one >>>>>>>> off part. Let me know and I can give you some tips. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>>> David Colombo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 804 College Ave >>>>>>>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>>>>>>> (707) 536-1424 >>>>>>>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:42 AM Philippe Robert via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like to know if someone has experience in fiberglass >>>>>>>>> making. I am looking for a starting point for making a kind of mold to >>>>>>>>> construct the mbt. Have never work with fiberglass before. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Philippe >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Untitled.png Type: image/png Size: 1535813 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 17:59:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 17:59:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator Message-ID: Hi friends, The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 18:20:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 10:20:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA5A9A9-A1AF-45BA-AE1A-5AF88D3120E3@yahoo.com> Hi Alec, just opened up the zip file & had a look. Wow, what a lot of work you have put in to this. That's amazing. Thank you. Alan > On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi friends, > > The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. > > Best, > Alec > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 18:27:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 18:27:36 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Much appreciated. My sub is now looking forward to v3.0 ? On Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 6:00 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi friends, > > The PSUBS Community Projects page ( > http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ > > ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. > This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press > and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on > a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, > to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains > blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at > the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach > out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. > > Best, > Alec > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 19:52:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 23:52:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1511033206.3039978.1599177170208@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, Hank, thanks for all the work.? For those of us that like joysticks, it would be straight forward to use a 4 axis joystick to control these Lenco actuators without a PLC.? There are tons of small inexpensive DC motor controllers like?Dimension Engineering Sabertooth Dual 5A Regenerative Motor Driver? | | | | | | | | | | | Dimension Engineering Sabertooth Dual 5A Regenerative Motor Driver Dual motor controller - 5A 6V-18V Analog, R/C, simplified serial and packetized serial interfaces (TTL) Synch... | | | that can take the 0-5VDC analog signal from one of the axis of a joystick and drive the 12 or 24 volt Lenco actuators with a proportional signal.? When the joystick is returned to a neutral position for the axis the the actuator would stop at that position.? Most of these controllers have either linear or non linear response curves that are dip switch selectable that would enable you to get very fine movement around the neutral point (2.5VDC).? They also have a built in regulated 5VDC supply so that it makes it easy to connect directly to a joystick.? ?Since the controller above is a dual channel, two of these would control the four actuators.? As you say the nice thing abut these Lenco actuators is that you can't do any harm deadheading them so that if the actuator has stroked to it maximum length and the controller is still giving them some voltage, the motor spins but nothing happens.?? These controllers use 2.5VDC as the neutral position.? So if you wire each axis of the joystick to a regulated 5V voltage, the joy stick would send a 2.5V signal to the controller.? The controller would see this as the off position and the actuator would be off.? Pushing the joystick on either side of the neutral position would change the polarity to the actuator thus revering? the direction of stroke.? The amount of movement of the joystick off center is proportional the voltage and thus the speed the DC motor spins and thus the speed the actuator strokes.?? It could be the joystick would be more intuitive than momentary on switches with rheostat to control the manipulator.? I have experimented with one of these Lenco trim actuators and one of these Sabretooth motor controllers and they mate up very well together. Just a thought.?? The nice thing about having this open source is that each Psubber can implement the way they want. On Thursday, September 3, 2020, 05:28:32 PM CDT, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Much appreciated. My sub is now looking forward to v3.0 ? On Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 6:00 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi friends, The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. Best,Alec_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Sep 3 20:19:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 20:19:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: <1511033206.3039978.1599177170208@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1511033206.3039978.1599177170208@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's a really good suggestion. If anyone wants to give it a try, I'll volunteer the use of an arm for testing! Thanks, Alec On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 7:54 PM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, Hank, thanks for all the work. For those of us that like joysticks, > it would be straight forward to use a 4 axis joystick to control these > Lenco actuators without a PLC. There are tons of small inexpensive DC > motor controllers like Dimension Engineering Sabertooth Dual 5A > Regenerative Motor Driver > > > > Dimension Engineering Sabertooth Dual 5A Regenerative Motor Driver > > Dual motor controller - 5A 6V-18V Analog, R/C, simplified serial and > packetized serial interfaces (TTL) Synch... > > > that can take the 0-5VDC analog signal from one of the axis of a joystick > and drive the 12 or 24 volt Lenco actuators with a proportional signal. > When the joystick is returned to a neutral position for the axis the the > actuator would stop at that position. Most of these controllers have > either linear or non linear response curves that are dip switch selectable > that would enable you to get very fine movement around the neutral point > (2.5VDC). They also have a built in regulated 5VDC supply so that it makes > it easy to connect directly to a joystick. Since the controller above is > a dual channel, two of these would control the four actuators. As you say > the nice thing abut these Lenco actuators is that you can't do any harm > deadheading them so that if the actuator has stroked to it maximum length > and the controller is still giving them some voltage, the motor spins but > nothing happens. > > These controllers use 2.5VDC as the neutral position. So if you wire each > axis of the joystick to a regulated 5V voltage, the joy stick would send a > 2.5V signal to the controller. The controller would see this as the off > position and the actuator would be off. Pushing the joystick on either > side of the neutral position would change the polarity to the actuator thus > revering the direction of stroke. The amount of movement of the joystick > off center is proportional the voltage and thus the speed the DC motor > spins and thus the speed the actuator strokes. > > It could be the joystick would be more intuitive than momentary on > switches with rheostat to control the manipulator. I have experimented > with one of these Lenco trim actuators and one of these Sabretooth motor > controllers and they mate up very well together. > > Just a thought. > > The nice thing about having this open source is that each Psubber can > implement the way they want. > > > > On Thursday, September 3, 2020, 05:28:32 PM CDT, Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Much appreciated. My sub is now looking forward to v3.0 ? > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 6:00 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > The PSUBS Community Projects page ( > http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ > > ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. > This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press > and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on > a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, > to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains > blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at > the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach > out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. > > Best, > Alec > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 05:44:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 10:44:59 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: <1511033206.3039978.1599177170208@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just seen this post about the manipulator. Thanks guys, lots of work there and really useful. On Friday, 4 September 2020, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > That's a really good suggestion. If anyone wants to give it a try, I'll > volunteer the use of an arm for testing! > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 7:54 PM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, Hank, thanks for all the work. For those of us that like >> joysticks, it would be straight forward to use a 4 axis joystick to control >> these Lenco actuators without a PLC. There are tons of small inexpensive >> DC motor controllers like Dimension Engineering Sabertooth Dual 5A >> Regenerative Motor Driver >> >> >> >> Dimension Engineering Sabertooth Dual 5A Regenerative Motor Driver >> >> Dual motor controller - 5A 6V-18V Analog, R/C, simplified serial and >> packetized serial interfaces (TTL) Synch... >> >> >> that can take the 0-5VDC analog signal from one of the axis of a joystick >> and drive the 12 or 24 volt Lenco actuators with a proportional signal. >> When the joystick is returned to a neutral position for the axis the the >> actuator would stop at that position. Most of these controllers have >> either linear or non linear response curves that are dip switch selectable >> that would enable you to get very fine movement around the neutral point >> (2.5VDC). They also have a built in regulated 5VDC supply so that it makes >> it easy to connect directly to a joystick. Since the controller above is >> a dual channel, two of these would control the four actuators. As you say >> the nice thing abut these Lenco actuators is that you can't do any harm >> deadheading them so that if the actuator has stroked to it maximum length >> and the controller is still giving them some voltage, the motor spins but >> nothing happens. >> >> These controllers use 2.5VDC as the neutral position. So if you wire >> each axis of the joystick to a regulated 5V voltage, the joy stick would >> send a 2.5V signal to the controller. The controller would see this as the >> off position and the actuator would be off. Pushing the joystick on either >> side of the neutral position would change the polarity to the actuator thus >> revering the direction of stroke. The amount of movement of the joystick >> off center is proportional the voltage and thus the speed the DC motor >> spins and thus the speed the actuator strokes. >> >> It could be the joystick would be more intuitive than momentary on >> switches with rheostat to control the manipulator. I have experimented >> with one of these Lenco trim actuators and one of these Sabretooth motor >> controllers and they mate up very well together. >> >> Just a thought. >> >> The nice thing about having this open source is that each Psubber can >> implement the way they want. >> >> >> >> On Thursday, September 3, 2020, 05:28:32 PM CDT, Steve McQueen via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Much appreciated. My sub is now looking forward to v3.0 ? >> >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 6:00 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi friends, >> >> The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/ >> community/projects/ >> >> ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. >> This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press >> and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on >> a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, >> to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains >> blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at >> the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach >> out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 09:01:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 13:01:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <2083762579.215194.1599656512504.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2083762579.215194.1599656512504@mail.yahoo.com> One step closer, I was off by 100 lbs. ?I stopped worrying about getting it right on first time. ?Just brings weights and floats.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2631.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 961378 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 13:30:12 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 07:30:12 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2083762579.215194.1599656512504@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2083762579.215194.1599656512504.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2083762579.215194.1599656512504@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank That looks like a splash guard surrounding your conning tower hatch? I thought you were only using the sub in lakes so didn't think that would be necessary? I might have to employ one since all my diving will be in the ocean but won't know until I see how it goes. Rick On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:03 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > One step closer, I was off by 100 lbs. I stopped worrying about getting > it right on first time. Just brings weights and floats. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 15:14:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 07:14:14 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <2083762579.215194.1599656512504.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2083762579.215194.1599656512504@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7BF43827-6664-45FC-8FBD-E828D52632D7@yahoo.com> Rick, at a Psub gathering in Islamorada we towed Alec's sub Snoopy about 4 miles off shore. We abandoned the dive first day because it looked too dodgy to get in with the wave state. As a fisherman I didn't think it was very rough, but looking at the freeboard on the sub & waves splashing over it, it was very marginal as to whether we got in or not. I would definitely put one on. Emile's acrylic conning tower works well, he could give you details. He had to beef up the thickness of the acrylic as the first one broke. Alan Have a look at Emile's acrylic conning tower. > On 10/09/2020, at 5:30 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank > That looks like a splash guard surrounding your conning tower hatch? I thought you were only using the sub in lakes so didn't think that would be necessary? > I might have to employ one since all my diving will be in the ocean but won't know until I see how it goes. > Rick > >> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:03 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> One step closer, I was off by 100 lbs. I stopped worrying about getting it right on first time. Just brings weights and floats. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 15:53:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 09:53:57 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <7BF43827-6664-45FC-8FBD-E828D52632D7@yahoo.com> References: <2083762579.215194.1599656512504.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2083762579.215194.1599656512504@mail.yahoo.com> <7BF43827-6664-45FC-8FBD-E828D52632D7@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan thanks for the input. I have been wondering while building my sub if one would be necessary as all my use will be in the ocean rather than a lake like a lot of Psuberss. Though I don't plan on transferring persosnell while offshore, I would like to know that I can open the hatch for whatever reason and not get swamped! Emile, if you see this can you send me a couple of pictures of yours and how you attached it? you can send it to satwelder at gmail.com. Thanks Rick On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:15 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > at a Psub gathering in Islamorada we towed Alec's sub Snoopy about 4 > miles off shore. We abandoned the dive first day because it looked too > dodgy to > get in with the wave state. > As a fisherman I didn't think it was very rough, but looking at the > freeboard > on the sub & waves splashing over it, it was very marginal as to whether we > got in or not. > I would definitely put one on. > Emile's acrylic conning tower works well, he could give you details. He > had to > beef up the thickness of the acrylic as the first one broke. > Alan > > Have a look at Emile's acrylic conning tower. > > On 10/09/2020, at 5:30 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank > That looks like a splash guard surrounding your conning tower hatch? I > thought you were only using the sub in lakes so didn't think that would be > necessary? > I might have to employ one since all my diving will be in the ocean but > won't know until I see how it goes. > Rick > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:03 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> One step closer, I was off by 100 lbs. I stopped worrying about getting >> it right on first time. Just brings weights and floats. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 16:17:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 08:17:24 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <2083762579.215194.1599656512504.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2083762579.215194.1599656512504@mail.yahoo.com> <7BF43827-6664-45FC-8FBD-E828D52632D7@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2368FF21-DAA4-4EE5-97D9-5F395C756561@yahoo.com> Rick, I have a picture, in case Emile is not responsive. I believe it drains through the area in the front, under the deck. He did mention that if you surface too quickly the water doesn't get a chance to drain away & makes the sub unstable. > On 10/09/2020, at 7:53 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan > thanks for the input. I have been wondering while building my sub if one would be necessary as all my use will be in the ocean rather than a lake like a lot of Psuberss. Though I don't plan on transferring persosnell while offshore, I would like to know that I can open the hatch for whatever reason and not get swamped! Emile, if you see this can you send me a couple of pictures of yours and how you attached it? you can send it to satwelder at gmail.com. > Thanks > Rick > >> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:15 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> at a Psub gathering in Islamorada we towed Alec's sub Snoopy about 4 >> miles off shore. We abandoned the dive first day because it looked too dodgy to >> get in with the wave state. >> As a fisherman I didn't think it was very rough, but looking at the freeboard >> on the sub & waves splashing over it, it was very marginal as to whether we >> got in or not. >> I would definitely put one on. >> Emile's acrylic conning tower works well, he could give you details. He had to >> beef up the thickness of the acrylic as the first one broke. >> Alan >> >> Have a look at Emile's acrylic conning tower. >> >>> On 10/09/2020, at 5:30 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank >>> That looks like a splash guard surrounding your conning tower hatch? I thought you were only using the sub in lakes so didn't think that would be necessary? >>> I might have to employ one since all my diving will be in the ocean but won't know until I see how it goes. >>> Rick >>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:03 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> One step closer, I was off by 100 lbs. I stopped worrying about getting it right on first time. Just brings weights and floats. >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1471737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 9 16:21:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 08:21:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <2083762579.215194.1599656512504.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2083762579.215194.1599656512504@mail.yahoo.com> <7BF43827-6664-45FC-8FBD-E828D52632D7@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, additionally if you are transiting on the surface for any distance in the Hawaiian sun, you will cook if you have to keep the hatch closed. Alan > On 10/09/2020, at 7:53 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan > thanks for the input. I have been wondering while building my sub if one would be necessary as all my use will be in the ocean rather than a lake like a lot of Psuberss. Though I don't plan on transferring persosnell while offshore, I would like to know that I can open the hatch for whatever reason and not get swamped! Emile, if you see this can you send me a couple of pictures of yours and how you attached it? you can send it to satwelder at gmail.com. > Thanks > Rick > >> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:15 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> at a Psub gathering in Islamorada we towed Alec's sub Snoopy about 4 >> miles off shore. We abandoned the dive first day because it looked too dodgy to >> get in with the wave state. >> As a fisherman I didn't think it was very rough, but looking at the freeboard >> on the sub & waves splashing over it, it was very marginal as to whether we >> got in or not. >> I would definitely put one on. >> Emile's acrylic conning tower works well, he could give you details. He had to >> beef up the thickness of the acrylic as the first one broke. >> Alan >> >> Have a look at Emile's acrylic conning tower. >> >>> On 10/09/2020, at 5:30 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank >>> That looks like a splash guard surrounding your conning tower hatch? I thought you were only using the sub in lakes so didn't think that would be necessary? >>> I might have to employ one since all my diving will be in the ocean but won't know until I see how it goes. >>> Rick >>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:03 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> One step closer, I was off by 100 lbs. I stopped worrying about getting it right on first time. Just brings weights and floats. >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Sep 18 23:27:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:27:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Message-ID: <20200918202709.999631AB@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 01:37:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 19:37:35 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical In-Reply-To: <20200918202709.999631AB@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200918202709.999631AB@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian could you post a couple of pictures of what you are talking about? Rick On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 5:28 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I recently had an issue with the electrical lines going > to my motors . I currently am using 1" flexible industrial grade hose (UV > resistant) and running my heavy gage jacketed elec power lines to the motor > thru these hose lines . I have potted electrodes coming thru the hull in > a separate fitting that is basically an insert into one of my viewport > flanges.. And i have the same type of thing going into the motor, which is > potted into a 1" ss coupling which is welded to the motor pod . > Then I fill the whole thing with mineral oil. These lines meet at a slip > coupling fitting so I can disconnect the motor at that point and take in to > the shop and work on it , or so I can trade motors with a different one. > So I've been using pvc barbed 1" male fitting adapters to to screw into my > motor fitting and the thru hull fitting, Anyway it's looking like these > pvc fitting are not up to the task as I had one break on me . So now I > need to replace these , I'd rather not use brass or ss just because I'm > worried the cables are so tight that they might make contact and I'll have > a short. That's why I opted originally for the pvc. Does anyone know of a > really strong fitting I could use ? > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 05:03:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:03:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <860758154.4167277.1600506205380.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <860758154.4167277.1600506205380@mail.yahoo.com> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 11:09 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 11:09 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | First Manned Dive In E3000 Plus Interior Tour | Homemade Submarine | | | Hi All,I have finally been able to do my first manned test dive in E3000. ?I rushed it into the water to beat winter weather and work obligations.I need to make a cover for the relay bank and do some cosmetic work, etc. ?All easy stuff over the winter. ?I also bought a steel dump box to be converted into a test and training pool. ?Now I can dive all winter in my shop.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 16:35:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:35:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <860758154.4167277.1600506205380@mail.yahoo.com> References: <860758154.4167277.1600506205380.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <860758154.4167277.1600506205380@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, how much for the metal dump box? Might be easier for me vs telling the wife I'm need to dig a pit for a test facility. On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > 11:09 > > > 11:09 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > First Manned Dive In E3000 Plus Interior Tour | Homemade Submarine > > > Hi All, > I have finally been able to do my first manned test dive in E3000. I > rushed it into the water to beat winter weather and work obligations. > I need to make a cover for the relay bank and do some cosmetic work, etc. > All easy stuff over the winter. I also bought a steel dump box to be > converted into a test and training pool. Now I can dive all winter in my > shop. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 17:26:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 21:26:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <860758154.4167277.1600506205380.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <860758154.4167277.1600506205380@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1341498257.4295971.1600550809425@mail.yahoo.com> David,I am paying 1,500 for the box and 1,000 shipping plus 300 to extend the sides. ?Call it 3K all in. ?Oh and its tax deductible for me.I will use it as a pilot training pool also.Hank On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 2:35:53 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, how much for the metal dump box? Might be easier? for me vs telling the wife I'm need to dig a pit for a test facility. On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 11:09 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 11:09 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | First Manned Dive In E3000 Plus Interior Tour | Homemade Submarine | | | Hi All,I have finally been able to do my first manned test dive in E3000.? I rushed it into the water to beat winter weather and work obligations.I need to make a cover for the relay bank and do some cosmetic work, etc.? All easy stuff over the winter.? I also bought a steel dump box to be converted into a test and training pool.? Now I can dive all winter in my shop.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 18:01:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 15:01:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1341498257.4295971.1600550809425@mail.yahoo.com> References: <860758154.4167277.1600506205380.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <860758154.4167277.1600506205380@mail.yahoo.com> <1341498257.4295971.1600550809425@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I could do the same for use on the ranch. How high is your total depth? Are going to line it with a pool liner? I'm planning on having a number of water tanks on site for orchard irrigation that i can pump in and out into a test pool. David On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:27 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, > I am paying 1,500 for the box and 1,000 shipping plus 300 to extend the > sides. Call it 3K all in. Oh and its tax deductible for me. > I will use it as a pilot training pool also. > Hank > On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 2:35:53 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, how much for the metal dump box? Might be easier for me vs telling > the wife I'm need to dig a pit for a test facility. > > On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > 11:09 > > > 11:09 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue > > > First Manned Dive In E3000 Plus Interior Tour | Homemade Submarine > > > Hi All, > I have finally been able to do my first manned test dive in E3000. I > rushed it into the water to beat winter weather and work obligations. > I need to make a cover for the relay bank and do some cosmetic work, etc. > All easy stuff over the winter. I also bought a steel dump box to be > converted into a test and training pool. Now I can dive all winter in my > shop. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Sep 19 19:15:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:15:18 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE028FD-6F72-4D3C-A0F2-F22504F30FDD@yahoo.ca> David. No liner needed, and my depth will be 6 feet. That puts the hatch 18 inches under water. Believe me when I say it is worth every penny. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 19, 2020, at 4:02 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hank, I could do the same for use on the ranch. How high is your total depth? Are going to line it with a pool liner? I'm planning on having a number of water tanks on site for orchard irrigation that i can pump in and out into a test pool. > David > >> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:27 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> David, >> I am paying 1,500 for the box and 1,000 shipping plus 300 to extend the sides. Call it 3K all in. Oh and its tax deductible for me. >> I will use it as a pilot training pool also. >> Hank >> On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 2:35:53 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, how much for the metal dump box? Might be easier for me vs telling the wife I'm need to dig a pit for a test facility. >> >> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> 11:09 11:09 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue >> >> >> First Manned Dive In E3000 Plus Interior Tour | Homemade Submarine >> Hi All, >> I have finally been able to do my first manned test dive in E3000. I rushed it into the water to beat winter weather and work obligations. >> I need to make a cover for the relay bank and do some cosmetic work, etc. All easy stuff over the winter. I also bought a steel dump box to be converted into a test and training pool. Now I can dive all winter in my shop. >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 11:53:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 08:53:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Message-ID: <20200920085302.999306A2@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 19:23:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 16:23:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Message-ID: <20200920162353.99962E1C@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 19:32:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 23:32:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical In-Reply-To: <20200920162353.99962E1C@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200920162353.99962E1C@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <709419949.4531613.1600644728848@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, same thing happens with WD-40 ?so I used fuel line and that works. ?I use vegetable oil also.Hank On Sunday, September 20, 2020, 5:24:07 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think I'm going to be changing my electrical motor connections around.? Going to a smaller gage wire (#6)? and changing my hose assembly?to a much easier set?up.? Also I have found that the mineral oil I've been using does not work well with certain types of tubing, especially vinyl?tubing?, it tends to make it very stiff and not flexible after time.? I think that was one reason I was having such a steering?problem on my last outing.? Once I removed my supposedly flexible tubing I found that it was rock hard !? ? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 08:53:02 -0700 I actually found some nylon fittings that I'm going to try.? I should have gone with smaller gage wire :-)? ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "PSubs " Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:27:09 -0700 Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I recently had an issue with the electrical lines going to my motors .? I currently am using 1" flexible industrial grade hose (UV resistant) and running my heavy gage jacketed elec power lines to the motor thru these hose lines .? ?I have potted electrodes coming thru the hull in a separate?fitting that is basically an insert into one of my viewport flanges.. And? i have the same type of thing going into the motor, which is potted into a 1" ss coupling which is welded to the motor pod? .??Then I fill the whole thing with mineral oil.? These lines meet at a slip coupling fitting so I can disconnect the motor at that point and take in to the shop and work on it , or so I can trade motors with a different one.? ?So I've been using pvc barbed 1" male fitting adapters to to screw into my motor fitting and the thru hull fitting,? Anyway it's looking like these pvc fitting are not up to the task as I had one break on me .? So now I need to replace these ,? I'd rather not use brass or ss just because I'm worried the cables are so tight that they might make contact and I'll have a short.? That's why I opted originally?for the pvc.? Does anyone know of a really strong fitting I could use ?? ? Brian ??_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 19:44:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 16:44:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Message-ID: <20200920164411.99964084@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 19:44:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 16:44:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Message-ID: <20200920164411.99964087@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 20 19:45:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 16:45:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Message-ID: <20200920164549.99964081@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 17:23:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 09:23:04 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alec & Hank, when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine had micro switches in them that stopped the travel. I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not! I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro switch to help compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would randomly be switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth. Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor housing & suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motors can have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil compensated due to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast. Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth! Alan > On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi friends, > > The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. > > Best, > Alec > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 18:33:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 22:33:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1189910199.5425257.1600814013149@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,??The actuators have an over-ride mechanism so at the end of the stroke the motor free wheels.Also I found a way to drill oil or air passages to ensure all cavities including the rod thread area get filled.These actuators were meant to be on arms under water ;-)They are perfect, plus Alec changed my design a bit to allow for a less expensive, shorter stroke?actuator to be used on the swing. ?Also Alec has his air filled, so the motor performance should be unaffected. ?So far I have had my arm working with David at 200 plus feet with no issues. ?I noticed that Alecs arm sounds less smooth on air than my arm on oil.I would say if you can manage to have an air comp system, that would be better than oil.Hank On Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 3:23:32 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec & Hank,when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine hadmicro switches in them that stopped the travel.I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not!I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro switch tohelp compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would randomlybe switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth.Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the?compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor housing &suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motorscan have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil compensateddue to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast.Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth!Alan On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi friends, The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. Best,Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 18:49:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 18:49:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alan, I don't think there are any microswitches in these. Nor in fact any sealed components at all that I saw. Best, Alec On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:24 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec & Hank, > when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine had > micro switches in them that stopped the travel. > I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not! > I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro > switch to > help compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would > randomly > be switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth. > Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the > compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor housing > & > suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motors > can have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil compensated > due to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast. > Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth! > Alan > > On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > The PSUBS Community Projects page ( > http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ > > ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. > This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press > and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on > a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, > to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains > blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at > the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach > out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. > > Best, > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 18:53:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 15:53:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Message-ID: <20200922155300.99943377@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 19:04:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 23:04:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical In-Reply-To: <20200922155300.99943377@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20200922155300.99943377@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2108578309.5434318.1600815869785@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, that should work.Hank On Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 4:53:12 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I found some 1" fuel hose that will be perfect.? The material it's made of is nitrile .? The inside diameter fits a 3/4" pvc pipe perfectly!? It's used as "farm Hose"? for fueling etc.. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 16:45:49 -0700 And going to try veg oil too, for the lines anyway.?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 23:32:08 +0000 (UTC) Brian, same thing happens with WD-40 ?so I used fuel line and that works. ?I use vegetable oil also.Hank On Sunday, September 20, 2020, 5:24:07 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I think I'm going to be changing my electrical motor connections around.? Going to a smaller gage wire (#6)? and changing my hose assembly?to a much easier set?up.? Also I have found that the mineral oil I've been using does not work well with certain types of tubing, especially vinyl?tubing?, it tends to make it very stiff and not flexible after time.? I think that was one reason I was having such a steering?problem on my last outing.? Once I removed my supposedly flexible tubing I found that it was rock hard !? ? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 08:53:02 -0700 I actually found some nylon fittings that I'm going to try.? I should have gone with smaller gage wire :-)? ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "PSubs " Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] motor electrical Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:27:09 -0700 Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I recently had an issue with the electrical lines going to my motors .? I currently am using 1" flexible industrial grade hose (UV resistant) and running my heavy gage jacketed elec power lines to the motor thru these hose lines .? ?I have potted electrodes coming thru the hull in a separate?fitting that is basically an insert into one of my viewport flanges.. And? i have the same type of thing going into the motor, which is potted into a 1" ss coupling which is welded to the motor pod? .??Then I fill the whole thing with mineral oil.? These lines meet at a slip coupling fitting so I can disconnect the motor at that point and take in to the shop and work on it , or so I can trade motors with a different one.? ?So I've been using pvc barbed 1" male fitting adapters to to screw into my motor fitting and the thru hull fitting,? Anyway it's looking like these pvc fitting are not up to the task as I had one break on me .? So now I need to replace these ,? I'd rather not use brass or ss just because I'm worried the cables are so tight that they might make contact and I'll have a short.? That's why I opted originally?for the pvc.? Does anyone know of a really strong fitting I could use ?? ? Brian ??_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 20:16:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 12:16:01 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Alec & Hank. I found the diagram below that doesn't show any switches. I like the idea of air compensating them, perhaps with an over pressure from a regulator as Cliff is using on his thrusters. The two shaft O-rings are as per the Minnkota, with the outer O-ring doomed to fail when the pressure gets high enough. If there was an overpressure the inner O-ring would fail first (hopefully) leaving the cavity between the two with air. Or is it filled with Greece? Alan > On 23/09/2020, at 10:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I don't think there are any microswitches in these. Nor in fact any sealed components at all that I saw. > > Best, > Alec > >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:24 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec & Hank, >> when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine had >> micro switches in them that stopped the travel. >> I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not! >> I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro switch to >> help compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would randomly >> be switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth. >> Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the >> compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor housing & >> suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motors >> can have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil compensated >> due to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast. >> Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth! >> Alan >> >>> On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi friends, >>> >>> The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 134963 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 22 22:37:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 14:37:31 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just found the photo below of a Lenco actuator that got water in through a seal. I would guess it is one of the main body seals. Perhaps the body flexes a bit under load, or the seal came out of its groove on assembly. Anyway something to be aware of during assembly. Alan > On 23/09/2020, at 12:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Alec & Hank. > I found the diagram below that doesn't show any switches. > I like the idea of air compensating them, perhaps with an over pressure from > a regulator as Cliff is using on his thrusters. > The two shaft O-rings are as per the Minnkota, with the outer O-ring doomed > to fail when the pressure gets high enough. If there was an overpressure the > inner O-ring would fail first (hopefully) leaving the cavity between the two with air. > Or is it filled with Greece? > Alan > > > >> On 23/09/2020, at 10:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> I don't think there are any microswitches in these. Nor in fact any sealed components at all that I saw. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:24 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alec & Hank, >>> when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine had >>> micro switches in them that stopped the travel. >>> I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not! >>> I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro switch to >>> help compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would randomly >>> be switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth. >>> Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the >>> compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor housing & >>> suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motors >>> can have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil compensated >>> due to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast. >>> Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth! >>> Alan >>> >>>> On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi friends, >>>> >>>> The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Alec >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 198956 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 08:54:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:54:50 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, that's a good find Alan, I was unaware of the second O ring. My suggestion would be to remove the outer one if going very deep, or drilling a tiny hole between the two. Else the O-ring would tend to squeeze the shaft at depth, freezing it up or increasing current draw. My impression of these actuators is that the likely failure point is the top cap (the disc-shaped piece that ends the main cylinder). Not that pressure would be a problem, but it's a plastic piece and includes the pivot point of the actuator, so is subject to significant mechanical stress. On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 8:17 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Alec & Hank. > I found the diagram below that doesn't show any switches. > I like the idea of air compensating them, perhaps with an over pressure > from > a regulator as Cliff is using on his thrusters. > The two shaft O-rings are as per the Minnkota, with the outer O-ring doomed > to fail when the pressure gets high enough. If there was an overpressure > the > inner O-ring would fail first (hopefully) leaving the cavity between the > two with air. > Or is it filled with Greece? > Alan > [image: image1.PNG] > > > On 23/09/2020, at 10:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I don't think there are any microswitches in these. Nor in fact any sealed > components at all that I saw. > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:24 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec & Hank, >> when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine had >> micro switches in them that stopped the travel. >> I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not! >> I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro >> switch to >> help compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would >> randomly >> be switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth. >> Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the >> compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor >> housing & >> suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motors >> can have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil >> compensated >> due to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast. >> Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth! >> Alan >> >> On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi friends, >> >> The PSUBS Community Projects page ( >> http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ >> >> ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. >> This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press >> and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on >> a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, >> to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains >> blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at >> the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach >> out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 134963 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 13:48:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 17:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <557507922.323374.1600883300681@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, I have an actuator with a metal end cap. ?I think it is the extreme duty modelHank On Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 6:55:22 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Oh, that's a good find Alan, I was unaware of the second O ring. My suggestion would be to remove the outer one if going very deep, or drilling a tiny hole between the two. Else the O-ring would tend to squeeze the shaft at depth, freezing it up or increasing current draw. My impression of these actuators is that the likely failure point is the top cap (the disc-shaped piece that ends the main cylinder). Not that pressure would be a problem, but it's a plastic piece and includes the pivot point of the actuator, so is subject to significant mechanical stress. On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 8:17 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Alec & Hank.I found the diagram below that doesn't show any switches.I like the idea of air compensating them, perhaps with an over pressure froma regulator as Cliff is using on his thrusters.The two shaft O-rings are as per the Minnkota, with the outer O-ring doomedto fail when the pressure gets high enough. If there was an overpressure ?the?inner O-ring would fail first (hopefully) ?leaving the cavity between the two with air.Or is it filled with Greece?Alan On 23/09/2020, at 10:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, I don't think there are any microswitches in these. Nor in fact any sealed components at all that I saw. Best,Alec On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:24 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec & Hank,when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine hadmicro switches in them that stopped the travel.I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not!I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro switch tohelp compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would randomlybe switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth.Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the?compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor housing &suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motorscan have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil compensateddue to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast.Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth!Alan On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi friends, The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. Best,Alec _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 134963 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 14:13:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 14:13:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: <557507922.323374.1600883300681@mail.yahoo.com> References: <557507922.323374.1600883300681@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Very interesting. I have a mix of extreme duty and standard duty, but all mine are plastic! On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 1:49 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, I have an actuator with a metal end cap. I think it is the extreme > duty model > Hank > > On Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 6:55:22 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Oh, that's a good find Alan, I was unaware of the second O ring. My > suggestion would be to remove the outer one if going very deep, or drilling > a tiny hole between the two. Else the O-ring would tend to squeeze the > shaft at depth, freezing it up or increasing current draw. My impression of > these actuators is that the likely failure point is the top cap (the > disc-shaped piece that ends the main cylinder). Not that pressure would be > a problem, but it's a plastic piece and includes the pivot point of the > actuator, so is subject to significant mechanical stress. > > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 8:17 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Alec & Hank. > I found the diagram below that doesn't show any switches. > I like the idea of air compensating them, perhaps with an over pressure > from > a regulator as Cliff is using on his thrusters. > The two shaft O-rings are as per the Minnkota, with the outer O-ring doomed > to fail when the pressure gets high enough. If there was an overpressure > the > inner O-ring would fail first (hopefully) leaving the cavity between the > two with air. > Or is it filled with Greece? > Alan > [image: image1.PNG] > > > On 23/09/2020, at 10:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I don't think there are any microswitches in these. Nor in fact any sealed > components at all that I saw. > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:24 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec & Hank, > when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine had > micro switches in them that stopped the travel. > I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not! > I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro > switch to > help compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would > randomly > be switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth. > Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the > compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor housing > & > suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motors > can have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil compensated > due to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast. > Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth! > Alan > > On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > The PSUBS Community Projects page ( > http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ > > ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. > This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press > and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on > a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, > to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains > blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at > the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach > out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. > > Best, > Alec > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 134963 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 15:40:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 07:40:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS manipulator In-Reply-To: References: <557507922.323374.1600883300681@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26DAC6CE-F415-40C0-AB6C-CC894D9A42DD@yahoo.com> Sometimes those outer O-rings are regarded as sacrificial in underwater rotary shaft applications. They wouldn't see as much muck or get as much wear on a manipulator as they would operating a trim tab on a speeding boat. Maybe just pack some grease between the two O-rings if possible. They are great for this application though, being built for a rugged marine use. For me I am still not sure whether I will go with electric, hydraulic or pneumatic on the first few joints & then use some open motors for grippers & wrist. I am wanting a long manipulator to use as a periscope & reach my thrusters. Alan > On 24/09/2020, at 6:13 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Very interesting. I have a mix of extreme duty and standard duty, but all mine are plastic! > >> On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 1:49 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, I have an actuator with a metal end cap. I think it is the extreme duty model >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 6:55:22 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Oh, that's a good find Alan, I was unaware of the second O ring. My suggestion would be to remove the outer one if going very deep, or drilling a tiny hole between the two. Else the O-ring would tend to squeeze the shaft at depth, freezing it up or increasing current draw. My impression of these actuators is that the likely failure point is the top cap (the disc-shaped piece that ends the main cylinder). Not that pressure would be a problem, but it's a plastic piece and includes the pivot point of the actuator, so is subject to significant mechanical stress. >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 8:17 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Alec & Hank. >> I found the diagram below that doesn't show any switches. >> I like the idea of air compensating them, perhaps with an over pressure from >> a regulator as Cliff is using on his thrusters. >> The two shaft O-rings are as per the Minnkota, with the outer O-ring doomed >> to fail when the pressure gets high enough. If there was an overpressure the >> inner O-ring would fail first (hopefully) leaving the cavity between the two with air. >> Or is it filled with Greece? >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 23/09/2020, at 10:49 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> I don't think there are any microswitches in these. Nor in fact any sealed components at all that I saw. >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:24 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alec & Hank, >>> when I was compensating linear actuators ( a long time ago ) mine had >>> micro switches in them that stopped the travel. >>> I am not sure whether the Lenco has them or not! >>> I was sticking a hot needle through the plastic housing of the micro switch to >>> help compensate them, as it was pretty well sealed & I feared it would randomly >>> be switched because of the oil compensation pressure at depth. >>> Also the brushed motors were sealed. This again may be a problem if the >>> compensating oil hasn't fully filled the cavities inside the motor housing & >>> suddenly experiences pressure as you descend. The small brushed motors >>> can have what Phil describes as a "herky jerky" action when oil compensated >>> due to the oil lifting the brushes off as they spin fast. >>> Mentioning this in case you encounter problems operating them at depth! >>> Alan >>> >>>> On 4/09/2020, at 9:59 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi friends, >>>> >>>> The PSUBS Community Projects page (http://www.psubs.org/community/projects/ ) now features an "open source manipulator" developed by Hank Pronk and me. This is an intentionally simple manipulator built using only a drill press and an angle grinder, except for a few plastic bushings that were turned on a lathe for expedience. We purposely avoided things like aluminum welding, to keep it's fabrication as accessible as possible. The page contains blueprints, photos, and a bill of materials - but I recommend beginning at the "Start Here" document in the ZIP file. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, or if you have any suggested improvements. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Alec >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 17:05:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 15:05:00 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: Message-ID: This big gob of steel is my new bolt on pressure chamber to pressure test my dome. This part is 3 inches thick, plus there is a 1 inch thick cap on top. It all bolts over the dome, then filled with water and pressured up with a hydraulic hand pump. Hank -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2658.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 912524 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Sep 23 22:51:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 19:51:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <030a01d6921d$a206a660$e613f320$@telus.net> Very cool, Hank. As usual. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 2:05 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) This big gob of steel is my new bolt on pressure chamber to pressure test my dome. This part is 3 inches thick, plus there is a 1 inch thick cap on top. It all bolts over the dome, then filled with water and pressured up with a hydraulic hand pump. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 11:56:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 08:56:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] curtis controller Message-ID: <20200927085653.99974D28@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 16:45:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 16:45:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. Message-ID: Hi all, I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? Best regards, Philippe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 17:32:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 21:32:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> Follow the plans.? The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. Jon On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I currently?make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ?? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring?groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? Best regards, Philippe_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 18:35:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:35:56 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Philipe, I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. Alan > On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. > > Jon > > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? > > Best regards, > > Philippe > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 20:10:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 00:10:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Philipe,You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step.Hank? On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Philipe,I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method.I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure.Alan? On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Follow the plans.? The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. Jon On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I currently?make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ?? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring?groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? Best regards, Philippe_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 21:06:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 18:06:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, on the VAST sub which has the original kitteridge dome, it has a .5 inch wide flat rubber seal that appears to also have a seat groove into the hatch ring. The hatch is clamped with (4) internal dogs. The rubber seal protrudes about 3/16". David. On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 5:11 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Philipe, > You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove > is a small extra step. > Hank > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Philipe, > I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch > sealing method. > I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under > pressure. > Alan > > > On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the > pressure hull and should not be modified. > > Jon > > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with > front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the > viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a > 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put > retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option > for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make > better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? > > Best regards, > > Philippe > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image463870067216546185.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 220696 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image7220653143000647137.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 257805 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 21:25:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 14:25:51 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2E192157-258F-4A16-871C-4AECFC6B3994@yahoo.com> Thanks David, I can remember ( before your time) a controversial Psub member from Idaho submitting a seal design that was a moulded rubber. He was told by Jay Jeffries that it was dangerous & could extrude. This resulted in the only real Psub Stoush that I can remember. ( Boring group really) And the said young member left the group! Jon will remember him fondly! Alan > On 28/09/2020, at 2:06 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, on the VAST sub which has the original kitteridge dome, it has a .5 inch wide flat rubber seal that appears to also have a seat groove into the hatch ring. The hatch is clamped with (4) internal dogs. The rubber seal protrudes about 3/16". > David. > > >> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 5:11 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Philipe, >> You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step. >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Philipe, >> I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. >> I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Philippe >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 22:28:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:28:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <2E192157-258F-4A16-871C-4AECFC6B3994@yahoo.com> References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> <2E192157-258F-4A16-871C-4AECFC6B3994@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1654743424.1441275.1601260121597@mail.yahoo.com> You had to bring up family secrets of the early days, eh Alan?? :) :)? As I recall, we lost about a dozen people in protest when we decided to add the word "safe" to our mission statement. Jon On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 09:27:34 PM EDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks David,I can remember ( before your time) a controversial Psub member from Idaho?submitting a seal design that was a moulded rubber. He was told by JayJeffries that it was dangerous & could extrude. This resulted in the onlyreal Psub Stoush that I can remember. ( Boring group really) And the said young member left the group! Jon will remember him fondly!Alan On 28/09/2020, at 2:06 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, on the VAST sub which has the original kitteridge dome, it has a? .5 inch wide flat rubber seal that appears to also have a seat groove into the hatch ring. The hatch is clamped with (4) internal dogs. The rubber seal protrudes about 3/16".David. On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 5:11 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Philipe,You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step.Hank? On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Philipe,I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method.I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure.Alan? On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Follow the plans.? The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. Jon On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I currently?make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ?? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring?groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? Best regards, Philippe_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Sep 27 22:45:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 02:45:53 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of extrusion resistance. Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE models and destructive testing. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi Philipe, You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step. Hank On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Philipe, I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. Alan On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. Jon On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? Best regards, Philippe _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 10:17:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 10:17:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section > seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals > with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and > designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat > gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to > damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When > properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform > essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of > extrusion resistance. > > Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of > performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design > resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries > will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE > models and destructive testing. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Philipe, > You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove > is a small extra step. > Hank > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Philipe, > I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch > sealing method. > I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under > pressure. > Alan > > > On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the > pressure hull and should not be modified. > > Jon > > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with > front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the > viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a > 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put > retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option > for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make > better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? > > Best regards, > > Philippe > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 10:37:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 14:37:49 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible justification to use something different. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. > > Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > >> In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of extrusion resistance. >> >> Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE models and destructive testing. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> Hi Philipe, >> You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step. >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Philipe, >> I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. >> I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. >> Alan >> >> On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. >> >> Jon >> >> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Philippe >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 10:47:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 10:47:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ok. Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 38 a.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an > exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and > if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, > O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible > justification to use something different. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as > possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. > > Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > >> In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section >> seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals >> with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and >> designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat >> gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to >> damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When >> properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform >> essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of >> extrusion resistance. >> >> Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of >> performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design >> resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries >> will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE >> models and destructive testing. >> >> Sean >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> Hi Philipe, >> You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring >> groove is a small extra step. >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Philipe, >> I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch >> sealing method. >> I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under >> pressure. >> Alan >> >> >> On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the >> pressure hull and should not be modified. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with >> front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the >> viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a >> 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put >> retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option >> for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make >> better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Philippe >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 10:55:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 10:55:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Upgrade on adding view port too. But now I will follow Jon advice, better to do what I see on the plan. Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 47 a.m., Philippe Robert a ?crit : > Ok. > > Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 38 a.m., Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > >> "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an >> exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and >> if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, >> O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible >> justification to use something different. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as >> possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. >> >> Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : >> >>> In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section >>> seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals >>> with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and >>> designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat >>> gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to >>> damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When >>> properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform >>> essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of >>> extrusion resistance. >>> >>> Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of >>> performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design >>> resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries >>> will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE >>> models and destructive testing. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> Hi Philipe, >>> You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring >>> groove is a small extra step. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Philipe, >>> I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch >>> sealing method. >>> I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under >>> pressure. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the >>> pressure hull and should not be modified. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 >>> with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the >>> viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a >>> 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put >>> retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option >>> for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make >>> better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Philippe >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 11:28:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:28:21 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If there is a specific modification that you want to make where you deviate from the plans, then by all means propose it and let's discuss it on the list. If you are not an engineer though, you must be careful with such arbitrary changes, because a change to the window configuration could, for example, change the hull shell material reinforcement requirements, which then changes the mass and buoyancy balance of the vessel, which then affects vessel stability, etc. Conversely, there may also be some details on the plan that can accommodate minor modifications with no consequences whatsoever, but it is important to understand the difference, which is a large part of why this list exists. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:55, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Upgrade on adding view port too. But now I will follow Jon advice, better to do what I see on the plan. > > Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 47 a.m., Philippe Robert a ?crit : > >> Ok. >> >> Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 38 a.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : >> >>> "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible justification to use something different. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. >>>> >>>> Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : >>>> >>>>> In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of extrusion resistance. >>>>> >>>>> Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE models and destructive testing. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> Hi Philipe, >>>>> You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Philipe, >>>>> I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. >>>>> I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. >>>>> >>>>> Jon >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Philippe >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 12:26:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 16:26:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1615060175.1656215.1601310408459@mail.yahoo.com> Attachment holes through viewports are not currently accepted as safe practice even though there are some early model submarines that did utilize that configuration.? Sean could likely give a better description but in laymen terms those holes introduce stress and fatigue that could lead to development of cracks within the acrylic material and seriously weaken it.? I think the Nekton series used such a configuration but those submarines were certified and therefore went through intense engineering study and testing.? Any comment Vance? Peter Madsen drilled holes in his view ports to attach them to his submarine UC3, but Peter was also a risk-taker generally and I don't believe he ever dove UC3 to any serious depth.? There's a video somewhere of him swapping out a view port underwater. On Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:57:13 AM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Upgrade on adding view port too. But now I will follow Jon advice,? better to do what I see on the plan. Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 47 a.m., Philippe Robert a ?crit?: Ok. Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 38 a.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit?: "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible justification to use something different. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit?: In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of extrusion resistance. Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE models and destructive testing. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi Philipe, You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step. Hank? On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Philipe, I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. Alan? On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Follow the plans.? The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. Jon On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I currently?make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ?? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring?groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? Best regards, Philippe _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 13:03:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 10:03:44 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. Message-ID: <1382114680.2307.1601312624468@wamui-pluto.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 13:21:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:21:51 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <1382114680.2307.1601312624468@wamui-pluto.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1382114680.2307.1601312624468@wamui-pluto.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2D1C3C38-47D1-4366-9FC7-EF5BD797E5C3@yahoo.ca> If you do drill holes in the ports, be sure when you anneal them, air can flow through the holes. I read that somewhere. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2020, at 11:03 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > > The Nekton subs do have bolt holes in the viewports. While it was permitted 50+ years old when they where built, rules for viewport specifications were changed (in the 1980s I believe) to no longer permit holes in the viewports. > While the holes do weaken the viewport, I heard that a big factor was a fatal accident involving Nekton Beta, where a boat being salvaged broke free and collided with Beta's conning tower damaged a viewport causing flooding, > and ultimately an attempt to exit the submarine at depth, resulting in the death of one of the crew. > > > Note, for hatch sealing, the 'best' (at I've been lead to believe) is a metal to metal seal, the o-ring only provides protection for the first few feet, until pressure is high enough to give a complete metal-on-metal seal. > > Good luck! > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Sep 28, 2020 9:26 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. > > Attachment holes through viewports are not currently accepted as safe practice even though there are some early model submarines that did utilize that configuration. Sean could likely give a better description but in laymen terms those holes introduce stress and fatigue that could lead to development of cracks within the acrylic material and seriously weaken it. I think the Nekton series used such a configuration but those submarines were certified and therefore went through intense engineering study and testing. Any comment Vance? > > Peter Madsen drilled holes in his view ports to attach them to his submarine UC3, but Peter was also a risk-taker generally and I don't believe he ever dove UC3 to any serious depth. There's a video somewhere of him swapping out a view port underwater. > > > > On Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:57:13 AM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Upgrade on adding view port too. But now I will follow Jon advice, better to do what I see on the plan. > > Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 47 a.m., Philippe Robert a ?crit : > Ok. > > Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 38 a.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible justification to use something different. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. > > Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of extrusion resistance. > > Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE models and destructive testing. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Philipe, > You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step. > Hank > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Philipe, > I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. > I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. > Alan > > > On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. > > Jon > > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? > > Best regards, > > Philippe > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 13:34:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 10:34:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Message-ID: For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. Best Regards, David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image3332387351749463319.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 346258 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image2376198485044278988.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 192808 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 13:58:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:58:06 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A1B7858-92AD-4AD7-BFBF-BF31FEA9165F@yahoo.ca> David. I hope your ranch is spared. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 28, 2020, at 11:35 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. > Best Regards, > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 13:58:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 10:58:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007c01d695c1$0645c1f0$12d145d0$@telus.net> This is bad news, David. The wildfires this year have been horrible. Wishing you all well, and hoping that the SeaQuester will also survive undamaged. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 10:35 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. Best Regards, David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 14:30:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:30:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <202009281642.08SGgnYd093998@whoweb.com> David? Sorry to hear about your evacuation. Your in the Santa Rosa area right? I pray the fire leaves your home untouched and you and your wife can return soon. 2020 has been quite a year, hope 2021 is a return to old times. Keith T. -------- Original message --------From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Date: 9/28/20 10:34 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive.Best Regards,David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 14:31:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 18:31:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <176194132.1715099.1601317910942@mail.yahoo.com> Good luck David.? Hope all is spared.? Keep us apprised. Jon On Monday, September 28, 2020, 01:37:53 PM EDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive.Best Regards,David_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 15:44:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 19:44:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <710907077.1597885.1601322277347@mail.yahoo.com> Good luck David. We'e thinking about you.Vance -----Original Message----- From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2020 1:34 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive.Best Regards,David_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 16:07:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 20:07:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <1615060175.1656215.1601310408459@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> <1615060175.1656215.1601310408459@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1524311814.1622734.1601323658440@mail.yahoo.com> The Nekton viewports were extensively tested in-house and cleared by ABS for service in the last 3 subs, Beta, Gamma, and Delta. The design came about as it was something they could build in a small shop, meaning the reinforcement rings (1" X 1" in cross section) could be welded in place, then machined flat with a purpose built (and portable) milling machine that fit right to each frame. Drilling acrylic is problematic. The drill bits have to be modified with extra relief, and the temperatures are critical. And, of course, Marfab built all this themselves, and annealed the ports in-house. And for practical info, neoprene or rubber will not work as a gasket. Instead, a cork/neoprene blend is glued directly to the viewport frame (but not to the window).?People poo-poo them these days, but added together the 4 Nekton boats made over 12,000 dives, over half of them done by Delta. Hard to argue with the kind of success rate. As to the port broken in Beta, the problem was not the port itself, but its side exposure which left the acrylic unprotected from a side impact. As a comparison, Ashera broke a port in Greece and those were truncated cones as per modern spec. Happily in that accident, the two chunks of acrylic stayed together in the frame, and actually sort of self sealed. Leaky is better than busted, for sure. So just keep in mind the lessons learned: No heavy lifting overhead, dumbass (for Beta), and watch where you're going, stupid (for Ashera). Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2020 12:26 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. Attachment holes through viewports are not currently accepted as safe practice even though there are some early model submarines that did utilize that configuration.? Sean could likely give a better description but in laymen terms those holes introduce stress and fatigue that could lead to development of cracks within the acrylic material and seriously weaken it.? I think the Nekton series used such a configuration but those submarines were certified and therefore went through intense engineering study and testing.? Any comment Vance? Peter Madsen drilled holes in his view ports to attach them to his submarine UC3, but Peter was also a risk-taker generally and I don't believe he ever dove UC3 to any serious depth.? There's a video somewhere of him swapping out a view port underwater. On Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:57:13 AM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Upgrade on adding view port too. But now I will follow Jon advice,? better to do what I see on the plan. Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 47 a.m., Philippe Robert a ?crit?: Ok. Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 38 a.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit?: "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible justification to use something different. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit?: In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of extrusion resistance. Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE models and destructive testing. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi Philipe, You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step. Hank? On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Philipe, I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. Alan? On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Follow the plans.? The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. Jon On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I currently?make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ?? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring?groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? Best regards, Philippe _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 18:28:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:28:34 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All the best David, hope you can get back home soon. As for the chickens; people have released them in my local township & they survive quite well! Alan > On 29/09/2020, at 6:34 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. > Best Regards, > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 19:27:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 16:27:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Message-ID: <20200928162703.9992CC17@m0117164.ppops.net> Hope your ranch survives ! Hopefully there isn't too much wind and just the dry grass will burn. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:28:34 +1300 All the best David, hope you can get back home soon. As for the chickens; people have released them in my local township & they survive quite well! Alan > On 29/09/2020, at 6:34 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. > Best Regards, > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 19:46:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 16:46:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. In-Reply-To: <20200928162703.9992CC17@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20200928162703.9992CC17@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <00d501d695f1$a35ee310$ea1ca930$@telus.net> How is your area, Brian? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 4:27 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Hope your ranch survives ! Hopefully there isn't too much wind and just the dry grass will burn. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:28:34 +1300 All the best David, hope you can get back home soon. As for the chickens; people have released them in my local township & they survive quite well! Alan > On 29/09/2020, at 6:34 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. > Best Regards, > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 20:54:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 17:54:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Message-ID: <20200928175420.999501DF@m0117460.ppops.net> Tim, Where we are not really in any danger of getting burned out. We did have some bad fires in the foothills around us a few years ago, but being in a residential area the likelihood is rare. Plus in the Ojai Valley here we rarely get the east winds. We had about a week of smoke however. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 16:46:50 -0700 How is your area, Brian? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 4:27 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Hope your ranch survives ! Hopefully there isn't too much wind and just the dry grass will burn. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:28:34 +1300 All the best David, hope you can get back home soon. As for the chickens; people have released them in my local township & they survive quite well! Alan > On 29/09/2020, at 6:34 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. > Best Regards, > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 23:00:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 20:00:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Message-ID: <20200928200038.9997CCD7@m0117567.ppops.net> Checking my Twitter feed for those fires it doesn't look good. #Glassfire #Shadyfire Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 16:46:50 -0700 How is your area, Brian? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 4:27 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Hope your ranch survives ! Hopefully there isn't too much wind and just the dry grass will burn. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:28:34 +1300 All the best David, hope you can get back home soon. As for the chickens; people have released them in my local township & they survive quite well! Alan > On 29/09/2020, at 6:34 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. > Best Regards, > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Sep 28 23:15:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 20:15:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. In-Reply-To: <20200928200038.9997CCD7@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200928200038.9997CCD7@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <00da01d6960e$c06e4910$414adb30$@telus.net> Hoping for the best, Brian. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:01 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Checking my Twitter feed for those fires it doesn't look good. #Glassfire #Shadyfire Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 16:46:50 -0700 How is your area, Brian? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 4:27 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Hope your ranch survives ! Hopefully there isn't too much wind and just the dry grass will burn. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Evacuation and the yellow sub. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:28:34 +1300 All the best David, hope you can get back home soon. As for the chickens; people have released them in my local township & they survive quite well! Alan > On 29/09/2020, at 6:34 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > For my submarine friends, we evacuated our ranch last night and > managed to get all of our animals (4) dogs, (1) cat, and (20)+ chickens and vehicles safely to my office which were will call home for a bit. Currently the fires are burning less than 1/2 mile on the backside of the ridge above the ranch. The last thing to tow away last night was the decision as to which submarine do I hitch up. Since it was the closest to the gate the little yellow sub got towed to the office as well. The SeaQuestor is sitting in its tent. Here is the funny part, Wyvonne packed last night while i loaded the motorhome. This morning in my suit case was the only book she grabbed from my night stand. A book by Kitteridge, the builder of my yellow submarine. It made smile. The chickens are still in the bed of the truck waiting for coop supplies to arrive. > Best Regards, > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 06:08:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:08:04 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <1615060175.1656215.1601310408459@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> <1615060175.1656215.1601310408459@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Swapping out a viewport underwater? Does anyone have a link to that? I am assuming he covered the port on the outside as I believe on that boat, the ports came off from inside? Would like to see the video if anyone has it? On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 at 17:27, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Attachment holes through viewports are not currently accepted as safe > practice even though there are some early model submarines that did utilize > that configuration. Sean could likely give a better description but in > laymen terms those holes introduce stress and fatigue that could lead to > development of cracks within the acrylic material and seriously weaken it. > I think the Nekton series used such a configuration but those submarines > were certified and therefore went through intense engineering study and > testing. Any comment Vance? > > Peter Madsen drilled holes in his view ports to attach them to his > submarine UC3, but Peter was also a risk-taker generally and I don't > believe he ever dove UC3 to any serious depth. There's a video somewhere > of him swapping out a view port underwater. > > > > On Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:57:13 AM EDT, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Upgrade on adding view port too. But now I will follow Jon advice, better > to do what I see on the plan. > > Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 47 a.m., Philippe Robert a > ?crit : > > Ok. > > Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 38 a.m., Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > > "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an > exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and > if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, > O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible > justification to use something different. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as > possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. > > Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles a ?crit : > > In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section > seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals > with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and > designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat > gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to > damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When > properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform > essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of > extrusion resistance. > > Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of > performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design > resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries > will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE > models and destructive testing. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Philipe, > You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove > is a small extra step. > Hank > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Philipe, > I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch > sealing method. > I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under > pressure. > Alan > > > On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Follow the plans. The sections you reference are all related to the > pressure hull and should not be modified. > > Jon > > > On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I currently make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with > front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the > viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a > 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put > retaining bolts ? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option > for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring groove. Is it possible to make > better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? > > Best regards, > > Philippe > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 07:03:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:03:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <1524311814.1622734.1601323658440@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> <1615060175.1656215.1601310408459@mail.yahoo.com> <1524311814.1622734.1601323658440@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1160048633.1833743.1601377422925@mail.yahoo.com> -----Original Message----- From: vbra676539 at aol.com To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2020 4:07 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. The Nekton viewports were extensively tested in-house and cleared by ABS for service in the last 3 subs, Beta, Gamma, and Delta. The design came about as it was something they could build in a small shop, meaning the reinforcement rings (1" X 1" in cross section) could be welded in place, then machined flat with a purpose built (and portable) milling machine that fit right to each frame. Drilling acrylic is problematic. The drill bits have to be modified with extra relief, and the temperatures are critical. And, of course, Marfab built all this themselves, and annealed the ports in-house. And for practical info, neoprene or rubber will not work as a gasket. Instead, a cork/neoprene blend is glued directly to the viewport frame (but not to the window).?People poo-poo them these days, but added together the 4 Nekton boats made over 12,000 dives, over half of them done by Delta. Hard to argue with the kind of success rate. As to the port broken in Beta, the problem was not the port itself, but its side exposure which left the acrylic unprotected from a side impact. As a comparison, Ashera broke a port in Greece and those were truncated cones as per modern spec. Happily in that accident, the two chunks of acrylic stayed together in the frame, and actually sort of self sealed. Leaky is better than busted, for sure. So just keep in mind the lessons learned: No heavy lifting overhead, dumbass (for Beta), and watch where you're going, stupid (for Ashera). Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2020 12:26 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. Attachment holes through viewports are not currently accepted as safe practice even though there are some early model submarines that did utilize that configuration.? Sean could likely give a better description but in laymen terms those holes introduce stress and fatigue that could lead to development of cracks within the acrylic material and seriously weaken it.? I think the Nekton series used such a configuration but those submarines were certified and therefore went through intense engineering study and testing.? Any comment Vance? Peter Madsen drilled holes in his view ports to attach them to his submarine UC3, but Peter was also a risk-taker generally and I don't believe he ever dove UC3 to any serious depth.? There's a video somewhere of him swapping out a view port underwater. On Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:57:13 AM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Upgrade on adding view port too. But now I will follow Jon advice,? better to do what I see on the plan. Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 47 a.m., Philippe Robert a ?crit?: Ok. Le lun. 28 sept. 2020 10 h 38 a.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit?: "Upgrade" is a problematic term. When I design seals, I typically do an exhaustive evaluation to determine whether standard O-rings will work, and if not, then I start looking at other options. For this application, O-rings work well, and I am hard pressed to come up with any possible justification to use something different. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 28, 2020, 08:17, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks for the advice, my goal is to build my submarine safeste as possible, but if I can upgrade sealing and design it will be great. Le dim. 27 sept. 2020 10 h 46 p.m., Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles a ?crit?: In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with rectangular cross section seals, provided they are implemented in the same manner as O-ring seals with a captive groove, managed extrusion gap, designed gap fill and designed maximum squeeze of the seal. Absent those controls, a simple flat gasket presents not only a severe risk of extrusion, but can be subject to damage and consequent failure if maximum squeeze is not constrained. When properly designed, however, rectangular cross section seals can perform essentially as an O-ring seal with integral backup rings in terms of extrusion resistance. Standard O-ring seals have the advantage of having a massive body of performance data available, and a freely available comprehensive design resource in the Parker O-ring Guide (ORD5700). Seals with custom geometries will generally require independent design verification in the form of FE models and destructive testing. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Sep. 27, 2020, 18:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi Philipe, You have to machine the dome seat flat anyways, so adding an o-ring groove is a small extra step. Hank? On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 4:36:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Philipe, I don't know of any submersibles that don't use o-rings as the hatch sealing method. I believe there is a danger of a flat rubber seal extruding inward under pressure. Alan? On 28/09/2020, at 10:32 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Follow the plans.? The sections you reference are all related to the pressure hull and should not be modified. Jon On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 04:47:54 PM EDT, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I currently?make the conning tower. I see on the internet some k-250 with front and side viewport in addition of the acrylics dome. Some of the viewport is close to the gusset and I assume that is not possible to do a 100% weld. Is it acceptable ? Is it ok to drill hole in the viewport to put retaining bolts ?? Second question, on the blueprint, the sealing option for the hatch on the conning tower is o'ring?groove. Is it possible to make better sealing like flat rubber strip or something like that ? Best regards, Philippe _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 07:45:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 11:45:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> <1615060175.1656215.1601310408459@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <305804001.142694.1601379919218@mail.yahoo.com> Exactly how he did it James.? Had a diver outside just hold a metal cover over the outside flange, then unbolted the view port from the inside.? Water pressure retained the cover on the outside once the view port was released.? It was not a waterproof solution, there was plenty of leakage, however it also was not a flood.? It did require fast reflexes and a quick replacement.? Had a bolt rolled away or some other little distraction occurred it would have been a much different story.? I looked for the video again and couldn't find.? It is a video associated with one of the "meets" he had with the submarine community over there. I was wrong about Madsen drilling his view ports.? He used an internal retaining ring surrounded by attachment bolts with no circumferential support.? See attached photo.? Jon On Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 06:10:09 AM EDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Swapping out a viewport underwater?? Does anyone have a link to that?? I am assuming he covered the port on the outside as I believe on that boat, the ports came off from inside? Would like to see the video if anyone has it? On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 at 17:27, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Attachment holes through viewports are not currently accepted as safe practice even though there are some early model submarines that did utilize that configuration.? Sean could likely give a better description but in laymen terms those holes introduce stress and fatigue that could lead to development of cracks within the acrylic material and seriously weaken it.? I think the Nekton series used such a configuration but those submarines were certified and therefore went through intense engineering study and testing.? Any comment Vance? Peter Madsen drilled holes in his view ports to attach them to his submarine UC3, but Peter was also a risk-taker generally and I don't believe he ever dove UC3 to any serious depth.? There's a video somewhere of him swapping out a view port underwater. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: uc3-1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 541729 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Sep 29 10:15:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 15:15:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 side viewport and dome hatch. In-Reply-To: <305804001.142694.1601379919218@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1933316272.1353026.1601242336529@mail.yahoo.com> <961375732.1390618.1601251855367@mail.yahoo.com> <1615060175.1656215.1601310408459@mail.yahoo.com> <305804001.142694.1601379919218@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jon. Interesting, if a bit risky. On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Exactly how he did it James. Had a diver outside just hold a metal cover > over the outside flange, then unbolted the view port from the inside. > Water pressure retained the cover on the outside once the view port was > released. It was not a waterproof solution, there was plenty of leakage, > however it also was not a flood. It did require fast reflexes and a quick > replacement. Had a bolt rolled away or some other little distraction > occurred it would have been a much different story. I looked for the video > again and couldn't find. It is a video associated with one of the "meets" > he had with the submarine community over there. > > I was wrong about Madsen drilling his view ports. He used an internal > retaining ring surrounded by attachment bolts with no circumferential > support. See attached photo. > > Jon > > > On Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 06:10:09 AM EDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Swapping out a viewport underwater? Does anyone have a link to that? I > am assuming he covered the port on the outside as I believe on that boat, > the ports came off from inside? > > Would like to see the video if anyone has it? > > On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 at 17:27, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Attachment holes through viewports are not currently accepted as safe > practice even though there are some early model submarines that did utilize > that configuration. Sean could likely give a better description but in > laymen terms those holes introduce stress and fatigue that could lead to > development of cracks within the acrylic material and seriously weaken it. > I think the Nekton series used such a configuration but those submarines > were certified and therefore went through intense engineering study and > testing. Any comment Vance? > > Peter Madsen drilled holes in his view ports to attach them to his > submarine UC3, but Peter was also a risk-taker generally and I don't > believe he ever dove UC3 to any serious depth. There's a video somewhere > of him swapping out a view port underwater. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: