From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 1 07:49:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 11:49:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] data cable In-Reply-To: References: <20200529213815.3B9B6496@m0117566.ppops.net> <8F46EF82-75D9-4933-94DB-F14B1196FF2D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2054941098.752005.1591012192961@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,I have had good luck with black mechanics silicone. ?It is not as easy to make it pretty but it is very robust.Hank On Sunday, May 31, 2020, 3:50:51 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,I don't exactly know!After googling & asking advice I bought a number of glues that were?supposed to be good for glueing PVC.?I did a number of glueing experiments & found I could peel the glue off thePVC with all products. I went to Lancer inflatables & asked them what theyused on their PVC boats & they sold me unmarked cans of a two pot heat?activated PVC adhesive. I think he said it was a 3M product.?It was fantastic, the PVC would tear rather than the glue peeling off.Most wire jackets are PVC. I use PVC outside the hull & Teflon coated wireWhich is more fire resistant inside.I looked at some professional rubber through hull fittings I had & saw that theyhad a thin layer of rubber vulcanised to about an inch up the jacket fromwhere the head of the fitting was. I am copying this by coating the through hull& the jacket of the wire with the PVC glue.Doug Jackson did a series of videos on home made through hull fittings wherehe had failure after failure & this lead me to look in to it a bit more deeply.The water under pressure can squeeze between the insulation & wire, & the?epoxy it is imbedded in, but with a layer of PVC glue over everything it can't.I had success first test at 2000psi.This looks a good product.https://www.nrs.com/repair/stabond.aspAny product they use on PVC inflatables should be good as it is water resistant?as well as developed for PVC.Cheers Alan On 31/05/2020, at 10:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan What is the name of that glue you use and where can i get it? Rick On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:43 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I cover the insulation on the wires & the potting material with a PVC glueup to an inch from where it is potted. I use a 2 pot heat activated PVC gluethat will tear the PVC before it peals off.Reason for this is water can force down between the PVC & the potting?material.Alan On 30/05/2020, at 4:38 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks,? or maybe just tin the wires with solder .? But I"ll look for solid . Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] data cable Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 01:24:15 +0000 (UTC) Brian, it the strands are solid core, you can strip off the insulation and then pot.? If the strands are multi wire then cut and sold in a section of solid wire to pot.Hank On Friday, May 29, 2020, 7:01:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? What would be the best way for me to pot a cat5 ethernet cable?? ? Would the insulation need to be removed??? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 1 08:59:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 12:59:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] data cable In-Reply-To: <8F46EF82-75D9-4933-94DB-F14B1196FF2D@yahoo.com> References: <20200529213815.3B9B6496@m0117566.ppops.net> <8F46EF82-75D9-4933-94DB-F14B1196FF2D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1754511926.776874.1591016379720@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I have tested my penetrators with no additional glue or silicone. ?I agree silicone or glue is a good idea but in testing I have discovered that it takes 1,000 psi before air will pass between the wire shield and up the wire. ?I tested be screwing the penetrator into a pipe. ?I pressurized the pipe interior with air not water. ?I then place the pipe in a bucket of water to look for bubbles. ?Not until 1,000 psi will very minor random air bubbles appear. ?If the test was reversed with water in the pipe then I suspect it would take much more pressure to push water past. ?Hank On Friday, May 29, 2020, 11:42:50 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I cover the insulation on the wires & the potting material with a PVC glueup to an inch from where it is potted. I use a 2 pot heat activated PVC gluethat will tear the PVC before it peals off.Reason for this is water can force down between the PVC & the potting?material.Alan On 30/05/2020, at 4:38 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks,? or maybe just tin the wires with solder .? But I"ll look for solid . Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] data cable Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 01:24:15 +0000 (UTC) Brian, it the strands are solid core, you can strip off the insulation and then pot. ?If the strands are multi wire then cut and sold in a section of solid wire to pot.Hank On Friday, May 29, 2020, 7:01:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? What would be the best way for me to pot a cat5 ethernet cable?? ? Would the insulation need to be removed??? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 1 16:18:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 08:18:34 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] data cable In-Reply-To: <1754511926.776874.1591016379720@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200529213815.3B9B6496@m0117566.ppops.net> <8F46EF82-75D9-4933-94DB-F14B1196FF2D@yahoo.com> <1754511926.776874.1591016379720@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, the very first penetrator I made was in a linear actuator. ( I am sure I've said this before) I am not sure whether I stripped a section of the insulation or not, but presume I did. It went through 1" of epoxy. When I filled the linear actuator with WD40, it just ran out down the outside of the wire insulation. No pressure. I couldn't believe it. I was using a good epoxy. I suppose not all insulation is the same & maybe another insulation would have adhered better. But I haven't been very trusting since, & after Doug's videos, even less trusting. I now have a mold for pouring a marine polyurethane over everything as a wire support, additional barrier & to make it look pretty. Also when I pour the epoxy in to the metal through hull I build a plastercine wall around the top so I have a section of epoxy over the lip of the through hull to stop any extrusion of the epoxy in to it. This is so any repetitive extrusion over diving cycles doesn't cause the epoxy to tear from the through hull & create a leak over time. Alan > On 2/06/2020, at 12:59 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I have tested my penetrators with no additional glue or silicone. I agree silicone or glue is a good idea but in testing I have discovered that it takes 1,000 psi before air will pass between the wire shield and up the wire. I tested be screwing the penetrator into a pipe. I pressurized the pipe interior with air not water. I then place the pipe in a bucket of water to look for bubbles. Not until 1,000 psi will very minor random air bubbles appear. If the test was reversed with water in the pipe then I suspect it would take much more pressure to push water past. > Hank > > On Friday, May 29, 2020, 11:42:50 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Brian, > I cover the insulation on the wires & the potting material with a PVC glue > up to an inch from where it is potted. I use a 2 pot heat activated PVC glue > that will tear the PVC before it peals off. > Reason for this is water can force down between the PVC & the potting > material. > Alan > >> On 30/05/2020, at 4:38 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks, or maybe just tin the wires with solder . But I"ll look for solid . >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] data cable >> Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 01:24:15 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, it the strands are solid core, you can strip off the insulation and then pot. If the strands are multi wire then cut and sold in a section of solid wire to pot. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, May 29, 2020, 7:01:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi All, >> What would be the best way for me to pot a cat5 ethernet cable? Would the insulation need to be removed? >> >> Brian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 1 17:01:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 21:01:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] data cable In-Reply-To: References: <20200529213815.3B9B6496@m0117566.ppops.net> <8F46EF82-75D9-4933-94DB-F14B1196FF2D@yahoo.com> <1754511926.776874.1591016379720@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1043960033.1085470.1591045271141@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I love your mould, very niceHank On Monday, June 1, 2020, 2:18:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,the very first penetrator I made was in a linear actuator. ( I am sure I've said this before)I am not sure whether I stripped a section of the insulation or not,but presume I did. It went through 1" of epoxy.?When I filled the linear actuator with WD40, it just ran out down the outsideof the wire insulation. No pressure. I couldn't believe it. I was using a good epoxy.I suppose not all insulation is the same & maybe another insulation would haveadhered better. But I haven't been very trusting since, & after Doug's videos,even less trusting. I now have a mold for pouring a marine polyurethane overeverything as a wire support, additional barrier & to make it look pretty.Also when I pour the epoxy in to the metal through hull I build a plastercine wallaround the top so I have a section of epoxy over the lip of the through hull tostop any extrusion of the epoxy in to it. This is so any repetitive extrusion overdiving cycles doesn't cause the epoxy to tear from the through hull & create a?leak over time.Alan On 2/06/2020, at 12:59 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I have tested my penetrators with no additional glue or silicone. ?I agree silicone or glue is a good idea but in testing I have discovered that it takes 1,000 psi before air will pass between the wire shield and up the wire. ?I tested be screwing the penetrator into a pipe. ?I pressurized the pipe interior with air not water. ?I then place the pipe in a bucket of water to look for bubbles. ?Not until 1,000 psi will very minor random air bubbles appear. ?If the test was reversed with water in the pipe then I suspect it would take much more pressure to push water past. ?Hank On Friday, May 29, 2020, 11:42:50 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I cover the insulation on the wires & the potting material with a PVC glueup to an inch from where it is potted. I use a 2 pot heat activated PVC gluethat will tear the PVC before it peals off.Reason for this is water can force down between the PVC & the potting?material.Alan On 30/05/2020, at 4:38 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks,? or maybe just tin the wires with solder .? But I"ll look for solid . Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] data cable Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 01:24:15 +0000 (UTC) Brian, it the strands are solid core, you can strip off the insulation and then pot. ?If the strands are multi wire then cut and sold in a section of solid wire to pot.Hank On Friday, May 29, 2020, 7:01:08 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? What would be the best way for me to pot a cat5 ethernet cable?? ? Would the insulation need to be removed??? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 1 19:01:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 11:01:42 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Blueprint Lab - Video Demonstrations References: <96e8001a533114b2a7cf0be64.823db13a40.20200601222937.419ced6795.cb718534@mail151.atl241.mcsv.net> Message-ID: Hi Psubbers, forwarding this email regarding Webinars & demonstrations of a range of electric manipulators that this Aussie firm is manufacturing. They are wanting a response from interested parties, possibly so that they can schedule them at a time suitable for the most dominant demographic. I am interested, but only cause I'm making one ( don't tell them that ) Alan Begin forwarded message: > From: Blueprint Lab (Anders) > Date: 2 June 2020 at 10:29:40 AM NZST > To: > Subject: Blueprint Lab - Video Demonstrations > Reply-To: Blueprint Lab (Anders) > > > View this email in your browser > > > > > > > Join us for Live Product Demonstrations! > We know, being an Aussie company we're a heck of a long way away from many of you... > > So, we wanted to provide a chance for you to see our technology and interact with us, live. Over the coming weeks, we'll be running live video demonstrations in both group webinar and individual format. We'll be answering your questions, and showcasing all that our technology has to offer. > > Reach Alpha, Reach Bravo, the Master Arm, the Reach Control software suite - we'll cover it all. > > We will be running the following: > > Reach Alpha Webinar (Date TBD) > > Reach Bravo Webinar (Date TBD) > > Individual Client Demonstrations > > Interested? > > Reply to this email (info at blueprintlab.com) and let us know! > > We'll update you with more details soon. > That's it for now - please stay in touch and we'll talk soon! > > See more at www.blueprintlab.com > If you were forwarded this email and want to subscribe for future updates, you can do so here: > Subscribe to Newsletter > Stay up to date through the below social profiles: > > > > > > Copyright ? 2020 Blueprint Lab, All rights reserved. > You are receiving this email because you opted in. > > Our mailing address is: > Blueprint Lab > 3 Applebee St > St Peters, NSW 2044 > Australia > > Add us to your address book > > > Want to change how you receive these emails? > You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 1 19:08:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2020 16:08:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Blueprint Lab - Video Demonstrations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <202006020409.05249Wus048756@whoweb.com> It would be interesting, even if only the steal ideas from. Keith T. -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 6/1/20 4:01 PM (GMT-08:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: Blueprint Lab - Video Demonstrations Hi Psubbers,forwarding this email regarding Webinars & demonstrations of a rangeof electric manipulators that this Aussie firm is manufacturing.They are wanting a response from interested parties, possibly so thatthey can schedule them at a time suitable for the most dominant demographic.I am interested, but only cause I'm making one ( don't tell them that )Alan Begin forwarded message: From: Blueprint Lab (Anders) Date: 2 June 2020 at 10:29:40 AM NZST To: Subject: Blueprint Lab - Video Demonstrations Reply-To: Blueprint Lab (Anders) Blueprint Lab - Video Demonstrations A chance to check out our tech - virtually! View this email in your browser Join us for Live Product Demonstrations! We know, being an Aussie company we're a heck of a long way away from many of you... So, we wanted to provide a chance for you to see our technology and interact with us, live. Over the coming weeks, we'll be running live video demonstrations in both group webinar and individual format. We'll be answering your questions, and showcasing all that our technology has to offer. Reach Alpha, Reach Bravo, the Master Arm, the Reach Control software suite - we'll cover it all. We will be running the following: ? Reach Alpha Webinar (Date TBD) Reach Bravo Webinar (Date TBD) ? Individual Client Demonstrations Interested? Reply to this email (info at blueprintlab.com) and let us know! We'll update you with more details soon. That's it for now - please stay in touch and we'll talk soon! See more at www.blueprintlab.com If you were forwarded this email and want to subscribe for future updates, you can do so here: Subscribe to Newsletter Stay up to date through the below social profiles: Copyright ? 2020 Blueprint Lab, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you opted in. Our mailing address is: Blueprint Lab3 Applebee StSt Peters, NSW 2044 Australia Add us to your address book Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 2 04:08:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 01:08:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor wing lights. Message-ID: Hi all, I now have the pair of led lights for the wings on the SeaQuestor. I deconstructed one to determine if I could control the spots from the floods. Turns out the main board is one giant circuit board glued to the aluminium housing. The refectors are plastic with a mirror coating. The exterior lense is just a cheap polycarbonate sheet that scratches really easily, and is held in place by 28 screws. But the entire surround is anodized aluminum. Good news is the main power wires can be easily removed and replaced with a core wire encased in rubber. So i plan on using the subconn connector and plug combo. Tomorrow I will be ordering an acrylic tube as the enclosure with solid acrylic end caps. The main question is what oil to use. I plan on putting each unit in a vaccume to draw out all of the air before sealing the unit with a plug. Any recommendations? David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image3629393328896856173.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 268903 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image7361947048743527470.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 301415 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 2 05:49:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 21:49:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor wing lights. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E86907A-4075-4647-954B-90AB97F67B89@yahoo.com> David, I am waiting on some strip lights without any housing to see if I can just Embed them in epoxy. Don't know whether I will use them but everyone else is playing around with them & they are cheap. I used silicone in one light housing oil compensating experiment. Worked fine but didn't try it for long. Something that won't yellow with the heat! Alan > On 2/06/2020, at 8:08 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, I now have the pair of led lights for the wings on the SeaQuestor. I deconstructed one to determine if I could control the spots from the floods. Turns out the main board is one giant circuit board glued to the aluminium housing. The refectors are plastic with a mirror coating. The exterior lense is just a cheap polycarbonate sheet that scratches really easily, and is held in place by 28 screws. But the entire surround is anodized aluminum. Good news is the main power wires can be easily removed and replaced with a core wire encased in rubber. So i plan on using the subconn connector and plug combo. Tomorrow I will be ordering an acrylic tube as the enclosure with solid acrylic end caps. The main question is what oil to use. I plan on putting each unit in a vaccume to draw out all of the air before sealing the unit with a plug. Any recommendations? > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 2 08:21:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:21:05 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor wing lights. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One suggestion: http://www.clearcoproducts.com/dielectric-silicone-fluids.html -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 2, 2020, 02:08, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi all, I now have the pair of led lights for the wings on the SeaQuestor. I deconstructed one to determine if I could control the spots from the floods. Turns out the main board is one giant circuit board glued to the aluminium housing. The refectors are plastic with a mirror coating. The exterior lense is just a cheap polycarbonate sheet that scratches really easily, and is held in place by 28 screws. But the entire surround is anodized aluminum. Good news is the main power wires can be easily removed and replaced with a core wire encased in rubber. So i plan on using the subconn connector and plug combo. Tomorrow I will be ordering an acrylic tube as the enclosure with solid acrylic end caps. The main question is what oil to use. I plan on putting each unit in a vaccume to draw out all of the air before sealing the unit with a plug. Any recommendations? > David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 2 08:24:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 12:24:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor wing lights. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1543706250.1386172.1591100654661@mail.yahoo.com> David, what is the plan for expansion and contraction of the oil from temperature changes? It would be nice if they can be sealed. ?If you are planning to machine an end cap to fit the interior of the acrylic tube, be ware the thickness is not consistent. ?The inconsistency is in the interior surface of the tube. ?Hank On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 2:09:30 AM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all, I now have the pair of led lights for the wings on the SeaQuestor. I deconstructed one to determine if I could control the spots from the floods. Turns out the main board is one giant circuit board glued to the aluminium housing. The refectors are plastic with a mirror coating. The exterior lense is just a cheap polycarbonate sheet that scratches really easily, and is held in place by 28 screws. But the entire surround is anodized aluminum. Good news is the main power wires can be easily removed and replaced with a core wire encased in rubber. So i plan on using the subconn connector and plug combo. Tomorrow I will be ordering an acrylic tube as the enclosure with solid acrylic end caps.? The main question is what oil to use. I plan on putting each unit in a vaccume to draw out all of the air before sealing the unit with a plug. Any recommendations??David_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 5 19:18:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:18:38 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting Message-ID: I contacted Sealcon about their wire stainless steel thru hull fitting and the ones they had were only rated for 150 PSIG which isn't enough for my 350. What are some other sources out there that can take a 300 PSIG pressure? Thanks Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 5 23:49:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 15:49:20 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58E08A54-8FC0-48D7-8518-86CBAF0D62BE@yahoo.com> Rick, do you mean like the "blue globe cable gland? Alan > On 6/06/2020, at 11:18 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I contacted Sealcon about their wire stainless steel thru hull fitting and the ones they had were only rated for 150 PSIG which isn't enough for my 350. What are some other sources out there that can take a 300 PSIG pressure? > Thanks > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 6 00:53:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 18:53:49 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting In-Reply-To: <58E08A54-8FC0-48D7-8518-86CBAF0D62BE@yahoo.com> References: <58E08A54-8FC0-48D7-8518-86CBAF0D62BE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: No, Sealcon seems to be a complete entity. I pulled up Blue globe on Google and they in Europe and I didn't see any reps for them here in the US so I sent them an email requesting information. Sealcon has an inner plastic sliced sleeve with a small duron sleeve inside of that but again, they are only tested to 150 psi and I have to test my 350 at 600' so I don't want to extrude anything while testing. Do you know of a Blue globe rep on the Mainland and what their fittings are tested to? Rick On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 5:50 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > do you mean like the "blue globe cable gland? > Alan > > > On 6/06/2020, at 11:18 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I contacted Sealcon about their wire stainless steel thru hull fitting > and the ones they had were only rated for 150 PSIG which isn't enough for > my 350. What are some other sources out there that can take a 300 PSIG > pressure? > > Thanks > > > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 6 01:26:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 17:26:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fittings In-Reply-To: References: <58E08A54-8FC0-48D7-8518-86CBAF0D62BE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Rick, I got mine from Melbourne, Australia but I believe blue globe are marketed in the states under a different name. One of the Americans could possibly tell you what they are called. Emile tested them to either 3000ft or 3000psi before they started to extrude through. Both he & Carsten double up, with one on the outside & one on the inside. If no one comes up with the American name you can always email the German manufacturer & ask for the nearest distributor for the product you want. I had to buy 50, & went halves with Hugh. Alan > On 6/06/2020, at 4:53 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > No, Sealcon seems to be a complete entity. I pulled up Blue globe on Google and they in Europe and I didn't see any reps for them here in the US so I sent them an email requesting information. Sealcon has an inner plastic sliced sleeve with a small duron sleeve inside of that but again, they are only tested to 150 psi and I have to test my 350 at 600' so I don't want to extrude anything while testing. Do you know of a Blue globe rep on the Mainland and what their fittings are tested to? > Rick > >> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 5:50 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> do you mean like the "blue globe cable gland? >> Alan >> >> > On 6/06/2020, at 11:18 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > I contacted Sealcon about their wire stainless steel thru hull fitting and the ones they had were only rated for 150 PSIG which isn't enough for my 350. What are some other sources out there that can take a 300 PSIG pressure? >> > Thanks >> > >> > Rick >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 6 09:02:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 13:02:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1749903497.141286.1591448572172@mail.yahoo.com> Threw hull fitting? You threw your hull fitting? I'm confused.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs chat room Sent: Fri, Jun 5, 2020 7:18 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting I contacted Sealcon about their wire stainless steel thru hull fitting and the ones they had were only rated for 150 PSIG which isn't enough for my 350. What are some other sources?out there that can take a 300 PSIG pressure??Thanks Rick_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 6 13:36:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 07:36:39 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting In-Reply-To: <1749903497.141286.1591448572172@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1749903497.141286.1591448572172@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry for the confusion Vance. Should have worded it differently I guess. The strain relief fitting would screw into the machined stainless steel plug that is welded into the hull. What did you use in your sub to pass wires threw? Rick On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 3:04 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Threw hull fitting? You threw your hull fitting? I'm confused. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: psubs chat room > Sent: Fri, Jun 5, 2020 7:18 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting > > I contacted Sealcon about their wire stainless steel thru hull fitting and > the ones they had were only rated for 150 PSIG which isn't enough for my > 350. What are some other sources out there that can take a 300 PSIG > pressure? > Thanks > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 6 13:59:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 17:59:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting In-Reply-To: References: <1749903497.141286.1591448572172@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1671066638.197372.1591466385918@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I use a thru-hull bulkhead fitting with a washer and nut on the inside. Sorry about the wisecracks,?I just threw them in to tease you. I'm through with that now. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sat, Jun 6, 2020 1:36 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting Sorry for the confusion Vance. Should have worded it differently I guess. The strain relief?fitting would screw into the machined stainless steel plug that is welded into the hull. What did you use in your sub to pass wires threw? Rick On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 3:04 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Threw hull fitting? You threw your hull fitting? I'm confused.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs chat room Sent: Fri, Jun 5, 2020 7:18 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] threw hull fitting I contacted Sealcon about their wire stainless steel thru hull fitting and the ones they had were only rated for 150 PSIG which isn't enough for my 350. What are some other sources?out there that can take a 300 PSIG pressure??Thanks Rick_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 7 02:28:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 23:28:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster controls ." on YouTube Message-ID: https://youtu.be/MKqLgqcx8Ag David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 7 09:58:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 13:58:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster controls ." on YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1730205951.518127.1591538315930@mail.yahoo.com> Nice to see the thrusters mounted and moving!? A couple of questions.? I am assuming that since you are going to use a PLC on the boat that you will mount a linear or rotary sensor on the thruster linkage to so that the PLC knows the location of the thrusters.? This gives you the ability? with a built in PID loop in the PLC to accurately control the location of the thrusters with your joystick and gives the ability for the thrusters to swing back to a centralized position when you take your hands of the joystick.? Are you planning on using a control strategy like this and have you speced the linear sensor yet? Cliff On Sunday, June 7, 2020, 01:29:34 AM CDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: https://youtu.be/MKqLgqcx8Ag David_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 7 13:06:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 10:06:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster controls ." on YouTube Message-ID: <20200607100603.3B9CE4FD@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 7 13:23:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 10:23:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster controls ." on YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000401d63cf0$504735b0$f0d5a110$@telus.net> Very nice, David. I like how your surge thrusters are also steerable in the normal axis. If one of them fails you still have steerage control. I need to figure out a way to install a rudder on my sub. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 11:28 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster controls ." on YouTube https://youtu.be/MKqLgqcx8Ag David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 7 23:05:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:05:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster controls ." on YouTube In-Reply-To: <20200607100603.3B9CE4FD@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20200607100603.3B9CE4FD@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, the tanks will be held in place vertically on the upper shell. I just got the foam rear cover cut with the tanks in place, ready for some final shaping. David On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 10:06 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > David, If you run those tanks down too far they will tend to float > away ! I had this problem with mine. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster > controls ." on YouTube > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 23:28:19 -0700 > > https://youtu.be/MKqLgqcx8Ag > > David > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image4487242429827659328.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 440632 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 7 23:25:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:25:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster controls ." on YouTube In-Reply-To: <1730205951.518127.1591538315930@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1730205951.518127.1591538315930@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, still working on the PLC code. I was going to add a sensor to determine the thruster location. Not sure how to tie the rotation of the actuator motor to the plc. But I have time to work that out if that can be done. I haven't specced the sensor yet, as i needed to make sure the linkage and all the UHMW parts were working properly and the clearances for the fiberglass shells are working before I start to cast the fiberglass. I have a lot of room to mount them on the deck pan once i figure what to use. David. On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 6:59 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Nice to see the thrusters mounted and moving! A couple of questions. I > am assuming that since you are going to use a PLC on the boat that you will > mount a linear or rotary sensor on the thruster linkage to so that the PLC > knows the location of the thrusters. This gives you the ability with a > built in PID loop in the PLC to accurately control the location of the > thrusters with your joystick and gives the ability for the thrusters to > swing back to a centralized position when you take your hands of the > joystick. Are you planning on using a control strategy like this and have > you speced the linear sensor yet? > > Cliff > > On Sunday, June 7, 2020, 01:29:34 AM CDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > https://youtu.be/MKqLgqcx8Ag > > David > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image6380138784233993415.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 282342 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image7697428254514378537.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 393218 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 7 23:32:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 20:32:13 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster controls ." on YouTube In-Reply-To: <000401d63cf0$504735b0$f0d5a110$@telus.net> References: <000401d63cf0$504735b0$f0d5a110$@telus.net> Message-ID: Tim, I was originally planning on a rudder of some type, but now based on how the thruster work so well i don't think im going to add it unless there is some type of prop wash issue once we start the sea trials. I can hardly wait to see how much forward motion i get with both thrusters being tied together. David On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 10:38 AM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Very nice, David. > > I like how your surge thrusters are also steerable in the normal axis. If > one of them fails you still have steerage control. I need to figure out a > way to install a rudder on my sub. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, June 6, 2020 11:28 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Watch "SeaQuestor Submarine vectored thruster > controls ." on YouTube > > > > https://youtu.be/MKqLgqcx8Ag > > > > David > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 10:47:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 14:47:17 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cool sub for sale on Ironplanet.com Message-ID: They specialize in government surplus and bankruptcy liquidation. Anyone know the backstory about why it's for sale? Check out the link. https://www.ironplanet.com/for-sale/Commercial-Marine-Vessels-Aquatica-Stingray-Submarine-British-Columbia/3594464?h=5000%2Cq%7CUnderwater&rr=0.5&hitprm=&pnLink=yes Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 12:08:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 06:08:18 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? Thanks Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 12:21:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:21:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) Steve On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and > only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most > of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue > Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 12:22:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:22:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen wrote: > Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company > called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is > untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) > > Steve > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >> Thanks >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 13:19:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:19:30 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Steve, I'll check em out. I bought 10 fittings from Sealcon at $35 a piece several years ago and over looked the minimal rating they had. How is your project coming along ? Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:23 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen wrote: > >> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company >> called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is >> untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >> >> Steve >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 13:43:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 13:43:45 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rick, I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look stuff up. When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet mate" connectors: http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull connectors, and they will be similar to this design. The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a pretty picture: [image: bulkhead connector.jpg] I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes through the bulkhead. The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube. The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your electrical current needs. These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. Hope that helps, Ian On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and > only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most > of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue > Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bulkhead connector.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1815641 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 14:31:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:31:18 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick. I always make penetrators, but have always liked the idea of fittings. Wonder if a brass compression fitting with a fat o ring would work Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 8, 2020, at 10:08 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 14:55:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:55:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: <20200608115527.56987928@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 15:01:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:01:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: <20200608120118.51D35BA2@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 15:12:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2020 19:12:29 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens of thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen wrote: > >> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >> >> Steve >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 16:01:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 10:01:27 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' test dip. Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens of > thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. > > Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen wrote: > >> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company >> called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is >> untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >> >> Steve >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 16:26:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 16:26:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Rick, my project is going well. but slow. I am in the "systems testing" phase with a few build items left. I have been posting mostly on the Facebook Psub page because I found posting pictures was a lot easier. However, I left Facebook the other day so I am back to this platform. Steve On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:02 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot > more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I > won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' > test dip. > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens of >> thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. >> >> Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. >> >> Sean >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company >>> called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is >>> untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>>> Thanks >>>> Rick >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 17:02:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:02:00 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: I don't have a facebook account though my wife does so I guess I would need to use her account to access the Psub page? Good luck on your progress. Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, my project is going well. but slow. I am in the "systems testing" > phase with a few build items left. I have been posting mostly on the > Facebook Psub page because I found posting pictures was a lot easier. > However, I left Facebook the other day so I am back to this platform. > > Steve > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:02 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot >> more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I >> won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' >> test dip. >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens >>> of thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. >>> >>> Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: >>> https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company >>>> called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is >>>> untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>>>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>>>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>>>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Rick >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 17:12:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 21:12:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <94130815.1206648.1591650726065@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I just realized that the original lights on Gamma had a brass compression fitting for the power wire. ?So it can be done and was a 1,000 foot sub.Hank On Monday, June 8, 2020, 3:02:30 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't have a facebook account though my wife does so I guess I would need to use her account to access the Psub page? Good luck on your progress.?Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, my project is going well. but slow. I am in the "systems testing" phase with a few build?items left. I have been posting mostly on the Facebook Psub page because I found posting pictures was a lot easier. However, I left Facebook the other day so I am back to this platform. Steve On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:02 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' test dip.Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens of thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link:?https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen wrote: Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company called?Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) Steve? On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon??Thanks?Rick_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 17:32:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:32:37 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <94130815.1206648.1591650726065@mail.yahoo.com> References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> <94130815.1206648.1591650726065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Hank, I have reached out to a couple of vendors that some of you had mentioned and am waiting back from one that says they can handle the higher than 15 bar standard rating. Has the Ice thawed in the lakes up there yet so you can start wearing shorts and a T shirt? Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:12 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, I just realized that the original lights on Gamma had a brass > compression fitting for the power wire. So it can be done and was a 1,000 > foot sub. > Hank > > On Monday, June 8, 2020, 3:02:30 PM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I don't have a facebook account though my wife does so I guess I would > need to use her account to access the Psub page? Good luck on your > progress. > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, my project is going well. but slow. I am in the "systems testing" > phase with a few build items left. I have been posting mostly on the > Facebook Psub page because I found posting pictures was a lot easier. > However, I left Facebook the other day so I am back to this platform. > > Steve > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:02 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot > more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I > won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' > test dip. > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens of > thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. > > Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen wrote: > > Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company > called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is > untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) > > Steve > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and > only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most > of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue > Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 18:15:18 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:15:18 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> <94130815.1206648.1591650726065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If I put a 150 PSI strain relief fitting on both sides of my threw hull fitting, will that give me 300 PSI of holding power or still 150, i am having a brain fart. Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:32 AM Rick Patton wrote: > Thanks Hank, I have reached out to a couple of vendors that some of you > had mentioned and am waiting back from one that says they can handle the > higher than 15 bar standard rating. > Has the Ice thawed in the lakes up there yet so you can start > wearing shorts and a T shirt? > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:12 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, I just realized that the original lights on Gamma had a brass >> compression fitting for the power wire. So it can be done and was a 1,000 >> foot sub. >> Hank >> >> On Monday, June 8, 2020, 3:02:30 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I don't have a facebook account though my wife does so I guess I would >> need to use her account to access the Psub page? Good luck on your >> progress. >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Rick, my project is going well. but slow. I am in the "systems testing" >> phase with a few build items left. I have been posting mostly on the >> Facebook Psub page because I found posting pictures was a lot easier. >> However, I left Facebook the other day so I am back to this platform. >> >> Steve >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:02 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot >> more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I >> won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' >> test dip. >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens of >> thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. >> >> Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. >> >> Sean >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen >> wrote: >> >> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company >> called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is >> untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >> >> Steve >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >> Thanks >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 18:34:57 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:34:57 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> <94130815.1206648.1591650726065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03B0371F-1F06-48EB-A506-4FB06C8D7892@yahoo.com> Rick, Emile tested the blue globe to something like 3000ft before the cable started to extrude through. Then he & Carsten decided to add an extra on the inside. Not all cable is the same so it would be hard to get a fixed number. And the compression material is a plastic so is it going to degrade in salt water & sunlight. Easy & cheap enough to replace & they recommend replacing these plastic inserts every time you undo the compression on the wire. I used them on my ambient but are making my own through hulls for the current build. Alan > On 9/06/2020, at 10:15 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > If I put a 150 PSI strain relief fitting on both sides of my threw hull fitting, will that give me 300 PSI of holding power or still 150, i am having a brain fart. > Rick > >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:32 AM Rick Patton wrote: >> Thanks Hank, I have reached out to a couple of vendors that some of you had mentioned and am waiting back from one that says they can handle the higher than 15 bar standard rating. >> Has the Ice thawed in the lakes up there yet so you can start wearing shorts and a T shirt? >> Rick >> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:12 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Rick, I just realized that the original lights on Gamma had a brass compression fitting for the power wire. So it can be done and was a 1,000 foot sub. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Monday, June 8, 2020, 3:02:30 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I don't have a facebook account though my wife does so I guess I would need to use her account to access the Psub page? Good luck on your progress. >>> Rick >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Rick, my project is going well. but slow. I am in the "systems testing" phase with a few build items left. I have been posting mostly on the Facebook Psub page because I found posting pictures was a lot easier. However, I left Facebook the other day so I am back to this platform. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:02 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' test dip. >>> Rick >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens of thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. >>> >>> Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen wrote: >>> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 18:43:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:43:55 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> Thanks Ian, I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from subConn that makes them. Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a securing device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it would just be an opportunity for corrosion. Alan > On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Rick, > I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look stuff up. > When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet mate" connectors: http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ > I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull connectors, and they will be similar to this design. > The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a pretty picture: > > > I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes through the bulkhead. > The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. > The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. > The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). > I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube. > The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your electrical current needs. > > These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. > Hope that helps, > Ian > > >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >> Thanks >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1786328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 18:47:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:47:05 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <03B0371F-1F06-48EB-A506-4FB06C8D7892@yahoo.com> References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> <94130815.1206648.1591650726065@mail.yahoo.com> <03B0371F-1F06-48EB-A506-4FB06C8D7892@yahoo.com> Message-ID: That was probably what Brian had mentioned, using the Uni Dicht series and I have a call out to them for that specific series. They did tell me that by going up to the higher rating (30 bar) that it was only made with metric threads and I have already welded in my threw hull fitting for a 3/8" NPT but they are checking on that. What do you think about using two fittings to get twice the amount of holding power? Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:35 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > Emile tested the blue globe to something like 3000ft before the cable > started to > extrude through. Then he & Carsten decided to add an extra on the inside. > Not all cable is the same so it would be hard to get a fixed number. And > the > compression material is a plastic so is it going to degrade in salt water > & > sunlight. Easy & cheap enough to replace & they recommend replacing these > plastic inserts every time you undo the compression on the wire. > I used them on my ambient but are making my own through hulls for the > current > build. > Alan > > > On 9/06/2020, at 10:15 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > If I put a 150 PSI strain relief fitting on both sides of my threw hull > fitting, will that give me 300 PSI of holding power or still 150, i am > having a brain fart. > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:32 AM Rick Patton wrote: > >> Thanks Hank, I have reached out to a couple of vendors that some of you >> had mentioned and am waiting back from one that says they can handle the >> higher than 15 bar standard rating. >> Has the Ice thawed in the lakes up there yet so you can start >> wearing shorts and a T shirt? >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:12 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Rick, I just realized that the original lights on Gamma had a brass >>> compression fitting for the power wire. So it can be done and was a 1,000 >>> foot sub. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Monday, June 8, 2020, 3:02:30 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I don't have a facebook account though my wife does so I guess I would >>> need to use her account to access the Psub page? Good luck on your >>> progress. >>> Rick >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Rick, my project is going well. but slow. I am in the "systems testing" >>> phase with a few build items left. I have been posting mostly on the >>> Facebook Psub page because I found posting pictures was a lot easier. >>> However, I left Facebook the other day so I am back to this platform. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:02 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot >>> more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I >>> won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' >>> test dip. >>> Rick >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens >>> of thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. >>> >>> Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: >>> https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company >>> called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is >>> untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 18:49:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:49:43 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> References: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I bought these for use on my stern thruster so I could easily remove it for maintenance or replacement. Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Ian, > I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from > subConn > that makes them. > Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a > securing > device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). > I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it > would just > be an opportunity for corrosion. > Alan > > [image: image1.JPG] > > On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing > through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been > able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look > stuff up. > When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight > bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, > this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the > connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it > again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and > construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet > mate" connectors: > http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ > I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV > project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its > depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull > connectors, and they will be similar to this design. > The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring > (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber > connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the > bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets > compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a > pretty picture: > > > I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes > through the bulkhead. > The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 > feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was > the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical > connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing > through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through > connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. > The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no > splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This > further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak > point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself > was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel > 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. > The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and > the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the > inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you > pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction > of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that > travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water > through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to > right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated > for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically > (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The > biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring > seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken > hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). > I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube > probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical > locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the > greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside > to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and > rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those > connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a > connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make > my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those > reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, > including right to the bottom of the brass tube. > The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can > make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your > electrical current needs. > > These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but > I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace > water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins > had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance > the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the > electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. > Hope that helps, > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >> Thanks >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1786328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 19:47:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 11:47:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <8o_zF71TrPDJLRxBxiYCh2j-b85YlYyAlSYdZGkcsUdklv5xW9hXRzhfNFjFeEZuzCorpSn5Ni5fDcPKnYPZB_-LeGV4DM17mYdtx1n3Ji4=@protonmail.com> <94130815.1206648.1591650726065@mail.yahoo.com> <03B0371F-1F06-48EB-A506-4FB06C8D7892@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57B0294E-CCEC-4809-A7F9-CB4711F50A9A@yahoo.com> Rick, I would go to 2 fittings but I don't think you would get twice the holding power. I think they are designed to take the pressure in one direction more than the other. But it would be an added security against leakage or a catastrophic failure of the outer blue globe. As said Emile & Carsten have had them in use for a while. If you contact them on messenger (Facebook) they may give you more detail. Alan > On 9/06/2020, at 10:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That was probably what Brian had mentioned, using the Uni Dicht series and I have a call out to them for that specific series. They did tell me that by going up to the higher rating (30 bar) that it was only made with metric threads and I have already welded in my threw hull fitting for a 3/8" NPT but they are checking on that. What do you think about using two fittings to get twice the amount of holding power? > Rick > >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:35 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> Emile tested the blue globe to something like 3000ft before the cable started to >> extrude through. Then he & Carsten decided to add an extra on the inside. >> Not all cable is the same so it would be hard to get a fixed number. And the >> compression material is a plastic so is it going to degrade in salt water & >> sunlight. Easy & cheap enough to replace & they recommend replacing these >> plastic inserts every time you undo the compression on the wire. >> I used them on my ambient but are making my own through hulls for the current >> build. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 9/06/2020, at 10:15 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> If I put a 150 PSI strain relief fitting on both sides of my threw hull fitting, will that give me 300 PSI of holding power or still 150, i am having a brain fart. >>> Rick >>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:32 AM Rick Patton wrote: >>>> Thanks Hank, I have reached out to a couple of vendors that some of you had mentioned and am waiting back from one that says they can handle the higher than 15 bar standard rating. >>>> Has the Ice thawed in the lakes up there yet so you can start wearing shorts and a T shirt? >>>> Rick >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:12 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Rick, I just realized that the original lights on Gamma had a brass compression fitting for the power wire. So it can be done and was a 1,000 foot sub. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, June 8, 2020, 3:02:30 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I don't have a facebook account though my wife does so I guess I would need to use her account to access the Psub page? Good luck on your progress. >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Rick, my project is going well. but slow. I am in the "systems testing" phase with a few build items left. I have been posting mostly on the Facebook Psub page because I found posting pictures was a lot easier. However, I left Facebook the other day so I am back to this platform. >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:02 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Sorry guys for re asking about the fastener but I knew there were a lot more of you out there that hadn't chimed in yet with good input! Though I won't see more than around 170 psi, I need the extra rating for the 600' test dip. >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> I use Conax fittings routinely in industrial applications to many tens of thousands of psi in some cases, and they perform as advertised. >>>>> >>>>> Make sure you're sitting down when you read the price quote though. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Jun. 8, 2020, 10:22, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, Conax not Cona. Try this link: https://www.conaxtechnologies.com/ >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:21 PM Steve McQueen wrote: >>>>> Hi Rick, Besides Blue Globe I am using a product from a company called Cona. www.conax.com. I am using part number PG5-500-A-N. It is untested but hopefully will work. It works on paper anyway : ) >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Rick >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 20:28:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 17:28:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: <20200608172837.51D36ECE@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1786328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 20:34:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 17:34:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: <20200608173458.51D37100@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1786328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 20:54:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 00:54:23 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine smuggling Message-ID: Does anybody know this guy? https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2020/06/05/feds-torpedo-alleged-submarine-smuggler-detroit-river-bust/3158181001/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 21:22:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 18:22:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable glands Message-ID: <20200608182200.3B82A812@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2518 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 10936 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7012 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 8 22:59:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:59:38 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine smuggling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8620C370-7166-4492-91F2-BB29795FE8F7@yahoo.com> Where was Hank testing his submarine? Alan > On 9/06/2020, at 12:54 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Does anybody know this guy? > > > https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2020/06/05/feds-torpedo-alleged-submarine-smuggler-detroit-river-bust/3158181001/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 00:40:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 21:40:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor cb/cg and vertical thrusters Message-ID: Hi guys, getting ready to cut my wings for the vertical thruster plscement. In my design I have them placed at the cb/cg lateral line. Based on my wing design, they have about a 15 degree pitch off of vertical. Here it's my question for those who have vertical thrusters. How important is the location relative to the lateral cb/ch line. With a variable internal trim tank system that can adjust the forward / aft cb/cg line. Pictures attached. I thought i would ask for feedback before i cut the foam. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image6905011355835530274.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 214140 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image9154131867660330939.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 233108 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 01:16:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 19:16:38 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <20200608173458.51D37100@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20200608173458.51D37100@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hey Brian Thanks for the input. What is the PSI rating for those? My email address is satwelder at gmail.com Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 2:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The ones I'm using cost $14.75 each - they are 1/2" mip x 6mm ( for > coax) > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 17:28:37 -0700 > > Rick, The Contaclip that I'm using is a 1/2" pipe thread, > but I saw where they do have smaller. I can email you the spec sheet, > what is your email ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:49:43 -1000 > > I bought these for use on my stern thruster so I could easily remove it > for maintenance or replacement. > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Ian, > I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from > subConn > that makes them. > Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a > securing > device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). > I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it > would just > be an opportunity for corrosion. > Alan > > [image: image1.JPG] > > On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing > through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been > able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look > stuff up. > When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight > bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, > this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the > connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it > again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and > construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet > mate" connectors: > http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ > I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV > project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its > depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull > connectors, and they will be similar to this design. > The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring > (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber > connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the > bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets > compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a > pretty picture: > > > I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes > through the bulkhead. > The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 > feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was > the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical > connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing > through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through > connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. > The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no > splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This > further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak > point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself > was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel > 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. > The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and > the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the > inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you > pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction > of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that > travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water > through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to > right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated > for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically > (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The > biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring > seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken > hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). > I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube > probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical > locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the > greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside > to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and > rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those > connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a > connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make > my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those > reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, > including right to the bottom of the brass tube. > The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can > make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your > electrical current needs. > > These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but > I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace > water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins > had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance > the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the > electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. > Hope that helps, > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and > only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most > of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue > Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > --000000000000f12c3505a79a6d37--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1786328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 01:22:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 19:22:41 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine smuggling In-Reply-To: <8620C370-7166-4492-91F2-BB29795FE8F7@yahoo.com> References: <8620C370-7166-4492-91F2-BB29795FE8F7@yahoo.com> Message-ID: so that's how Hank is financing all those cool things he is building! Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 5:00 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Where was Hank testing his submarine? > Alan > > On 9/06/2020, at 12:54 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Does anybody know this guy? > > > > https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2020/06/05/feds-torpedo-alleged-submarine-smuggler-detroit-river-bust/3158181001/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 01:45:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 22:45:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: <20200608224517.3B82A32F@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1786328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 02:08:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 20:08:32 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <20200608224517.3B82A32F@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20200608224517.3B82A32F@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Yeah that's my problem, I need them rated for my test depth of 600'/ 280 PSI. at least. The killer is that it will only be there once and only for an hour! Rick On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:47 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Those would go to 300 ft > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 19:16:38 -1000 > > Hey Brian > Thanks for the input. What is the PSI rating for those? > My email address is satwelder at gmail.com > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 2:36 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > The ones I'm using cost $14.75 each - they are 1/2" mip x 6mm ( for > coax) > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 17:28:37 -0700 > > Rick, The Contaclip that I'm using is a 1/2" pipe thread, > but I saw where they do have smaller. I can email you the spec sheet, > what is your email ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 12:49:43 -1000 > > I bought these for use on my stern thruster so I could easily remove it > for maintenance or replacement. > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Ian, > I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from > subConn > that makes them. > Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a > securing > device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). > I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it > would just > be an opportunity for corrosion. > Alan > > [image: image1.JPG] > > On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing > through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been > able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look > stuff up. > When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight > bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, > this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the > connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it > again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and > construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet > mate" connectors: > http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ > I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV > project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its > depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull > connectors, and they will be similar to this design. > The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring > (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber > connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the > bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets > compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a > pretty picture: > > > I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes > through the bulkhead. > The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 > feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was > the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical > connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing > through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through > connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. > The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no > splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This > further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak > point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself > was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel > 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. > The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and > the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the > inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you > pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction > of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that > travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water > through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to > right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated > for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically > (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The > biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring > seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken > hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). > I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube > probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical > locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the > greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside > to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and > rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those > connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a > connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make > my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those > reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, > including right to the bottom of the brass tube. > The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can > make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your > electrical current needs. > > These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but > I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace > water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins > had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance > the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the > electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. > Hope that helps, > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and > only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most > of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue > Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > --000000000000f12c3505a79a6d37--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > --000000000000ab094a05a79fd565--_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1786328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 03:37:12 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 19:37:12 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor cb/cg and vertical thrusters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BA0896D-D864-4D87-9254-0B7C0C1E5EF3@yahoo.com> David, looking at your design from the top, it is slightly dart shaped, so you have more area at the back half than front half. My thoughts are that the back half having more area will have more resistance as you try & push it up / down through the water. You could make a small flat cardboard cut out of the plan view of your sub & push it down in the water with a stick to find the best point along it that causes it to descend evenly. But then you may like a slightly nose down or nose up ascent, descent. I see you have right & left hand props in your diagram; well done! Alan > On 9/06/2020, at 4:40 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi guys, getting ready to cut my wings for the vertical thruster plscement. In my design I have them placed at the cb/cg lateral line. Based on my wing design, they have about a 15 degree pitch off of vertical. Here it's my question for those who have vertical thrusters. How important is the location relative to the lateral cb/ch line. With a variable internal trim tank system that can adjust the forward / aft cb/cg line. Pictures attached. I thought i would ask for feedback before i cut the foam. > David > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 09:07:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:07:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> References: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> Message-ID: :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? How does that work? Ian On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Ian, > I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from > subConn > that makes them. > Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a > securing > device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). > I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it > would just > be an opportunity for corrosion. > Alan > > [image: image1.JPG] > > On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing > through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been > able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look > stuff up. > When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight > bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, > this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the > connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it > again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and > construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet > mate" connectors: > http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ > I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV > project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its > depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull > connectors, and they will be similar to this design. > The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring > (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber > connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the > bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets > compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a > pretty picture: > > > I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes > through the bulkhead. > The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 > feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was > the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical > connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing > through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through > connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. > The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no > splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This > further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak > point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself > was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel > 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. > The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and > the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the > inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you > pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction > of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that > travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water > through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to > right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated > for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically > (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The > biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring > seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken > hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). > I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube > probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical > locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the > greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside > to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and > rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those > connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a > connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make > my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those > reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, > including right to the bottom of the brass tube. > The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can > make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your > electrical current needs. > > These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but > I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace > water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins > had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance > the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the > electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. > Hope that helps, > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >> Thanks >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1786328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 09:47:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:47:52 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine smuggling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It wasn't me! I have an alibi!! But if you're wondering about how I'm financing my hobbies... Ian >Does anybody know this guy? >https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2020/06/05/feds-torpedo-alleged-submarine-smuggler-detroit-river-bust/3158181001/ On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 8:55 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Does anybody know this guy? > > > > https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2020/06/05/feds-torpedo-alleged-submarine-smuggler-detroit-river-bust/3158181001/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 9 11:59:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 03:59:21 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ian, https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the facilitator / owner of the group a long time ago. He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! Cheers Alan > On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? How does that work? > > Ian > > >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Ian, >> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from subConn >> that makes them. >> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a securing >> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it would just >> be an opportunity for corrosion. >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Rick, >>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look stuff up. >>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet mate" connectors: http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a pretty picture: >>> >>> >>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes through the bulkhead. >>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your electrical current needs. >>> >>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >>> Hope that helps, >>> Ian >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>>> Thanks >>>> Rick >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 10 20:34:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:34:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine smuggling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012601d63f88$1b823ab0$5286b010$@telus.net> Apparently it was a Sea-Bob scooter. Nothing exciting. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2020/06/09/accused-detroit-river-drug-smuggler-used-james-bond-style-submarine/5325409002/ Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 6:48 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarine smuggling It wasn't me! I have an alibi!! But if you're wondering about how I'm financing my hobbies... Ian >Does anybody know this guy? >https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2020/06/05/feds-torpedo-alleged-submarine-smuggler-detroit-river-bust/3158181001/ On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 8:55 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Does anybody know this guy? https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2020/06/05/feds-torpedo-alleged-submarine-smuggler-detroit-river-bust/3158181001/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 11 18:02:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:02:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] metric to standard Message-ID: <20200611150215.950224E0@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 12 00:25:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 21:25:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] metric to standard Message-ID: <20200611212529.3B9F96B5@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 11 20:06:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 14:06:35 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] metric to standard In-Reply-To: <20200611150215.950224E0@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20200611150215.950224E0@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hey Brian I finally got ahold of the Blue Globe rep located in New Jersey and he told me that for what I wanted, a fitting that would take the 600' of pressure that I wanted, I would have to move up to their 30 bar fittings and those are only metric so that might be the same reason that you are asking?? I was at first bummed that I had purchased 10 subcon fittings that only had a rating for 15 bar but then I did the math on the actual opening the wire would be going threw and it was only about 33 pound of push so mine will be fine. Sometimes I get tunnel vision. Rick On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 12:03 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, > Is it possible to get a metric to stainless pipe thread > coupling ? Seems Blue globe is the only cable gland option. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 12 01:45:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 17:45:50 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] metric to standard In-Reply-To: References: <20200611150215.950224E0@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Rick, are you sure that's not what they are calculating there bar rating on; ie. 15 or 30 bar on a cable diameter the same as what you are using! Are you still going to go with the blueglobe either side? Alan > On 12/06/2020, at 12:06 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey Brian > > I finally got ahold of the Blue Globe rep located in New Jersey and he told me that for what I wanted, a fitting that would take the 600' of pressure that I wanted, I would have to move up to their 30 bar fittings and those are only metric so that might be the same reason that you are asking?? I was at first bummed that I had purchased 10 subcon fittings that only had a rating for 15 bar but then I did the math on the actual opening the wire would be going threw and it was only about 33 pound of push so mine will be fine. Sometimes I get tunnel vision. > Rick > > >> On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 12:03 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> All, >> Is it possible to get a metric to stainless pipe thread coupling ? Seems Blue globe is the only cable gland option. >> >> Brian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 12 13:07:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 13:07:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] metric to standard In-Reply-To: <20200611212529.3B9F96B5@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200611212529.3B9F96B5@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Try Titan Fittings. It might take combining 2 fittings to get there. Steve On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:26 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Maybe I'll just weld one onto another one. ;-) > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "PSubs " > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] metric to standard > Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:02:15 -0700 > > All, > Is it possible to get a metric to stainless pipe thread > coupling ? Seems Blue globe is the only cable gland option. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 12 13:20:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 07:20:58 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] metric to standard In-Reply-To: References: <20200611212529.3B9F96B5@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Alan I am going to fab a test chamber and check and will post the results and yes I plan on putting a fitting on both sides of all threw hulls. Thanks for the tip Steve Rick On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 7:08 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Try Titan Fittings. It might take combining 2 fittings to get there. > Steve > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:26 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Maybe I'll just weld one onto another one. ;-) >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: "PSubs " >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] metric to standard >> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:02:15 -0700 >> >> All, >> Is it possible to get a metric to stainless pipe >> thread coupling ? Seems Blue globe is the only cable gland option. >> >> Brian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 15 12:50:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 06:50:04 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain relief fittings and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't work. they said that they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable on the pressure side to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them and do some testing to see if this will be an option or not. jRick On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Ian, > > https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ > I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the > facilitator / owner > of the group a long time ago. > He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. > There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. > He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! > Cheers Alan > > On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? How > does that work? > > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Ian, >> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from >> subConn >> that makes them. >> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a >> securing >> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it >> would just >> be an opportunity for corrosion. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Rick, >> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing >> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been >> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look >> stuff up. >> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight >> bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, >> this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the >> connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it >> again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and >> construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet >> mate" connectors: >> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my >> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its >> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull >> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring >> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber >> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the >> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets >> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a >> pretty picture: >> >> >> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes >> through the bulkhead. >> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 >> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was >> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical >> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing >> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through >> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no >> splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This >> further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak >> point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself >> was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel >> 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and >> the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the >> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you >> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction >> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that >> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water >> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to >> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated >> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically >> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The >> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring >> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken >> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube >> probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical >> locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the >> greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside >> to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and >> rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those >> connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a >> connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make >> my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those >> reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, >> including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can >> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your >> electrical current needs. >> >> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, >> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace >> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins >> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance >> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the >> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >> Hope that helps, >> Ian >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 15 16:40:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:40:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: <20200615134028.58202CB@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 15 12:20:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 06:20:55 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] strain relief fittings Message-ID: Barbara Rainone to me This is the response I got after discussing my delima with Sealcon. I have half a grand now in useless fittings unless they will take them back but I bought them about 4 years ago. guess I should have done my research a little better! Rick Hello Rick, I was discussing this with my team mate Randy and he agreed you will not be able to use that fitting (CD09NA-6S) any deeper than 300 feet. We have fittings with clamps but those are just going to give you more security on the pull out. I do not think we can help you with your application due to the depth of the water. *---* *Barbra Rainone* Sr. Customer Service Specialist ? Region 2 *Sealcon * *Connect with me on LinkedIn * *Phone* 800-456-9012 / 303-699-1135 *Ext* 5029 *Email * SalesRegion2 at SealconUSA.com *Follow us on:* [image: 2020_Sealcon_Email_Banner] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 1167 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 03:52:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 19:52:56 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] strain relief fittings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02B34E09-DE19-48D2-89C7-65604821FD3D@yahoo.com> Rick, have attached a screen shot of the blueglobe page where it says they are rated up to 15 bar. That's 217 psi or round about 440ft. As said before Emile tested them to something like 3000ft. But still he & Carsten doubled up on them. I am not sure what safety margin sealcon uses. Sometimes it's 4x with plastics, & it does have a plastic sealing insert. So maybe the cable would start extruding through at 1200ft. Possibly more if they factor in ageing. The reps have to cover their butt in case you lose your life & sub using their product. I presume they sell the plastic sealing inserts that Blueglobe advises you change every time you untighten the fitting. You could change the inserts out every couple of years so that aging isn't a factor. What is the worst case scenario if one fails at 350 ft? The metal housing of the gland isn't going to fail, just the insert; & if the cable is running through it then water is not going to flow through the gap left by the torn insert in a great volume! You could calculate the water flow through the maximum hole size in the fitting if the gland & cable weren't there, & work out how much time you would have before the flooding was critical. Have heard of people putting their cables through valves so they can pull the wires out of connectors & close the valve off. That's my thoughts anyway. Cheers Alan > On 16/06/2020, at 4:20 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Barbara Rainone > to me > > This is the response I got after discussing my delima with Sealcon. I have half a grand now in useless fittings unless they will take them back but I bought them about 4 years ago. guess I should have done my research a little better! > > > > Rick > > > > Hello Rick, > > > > I was discussing this with my team mate Randy and he agreed you will not be able to use that fitting (CD09NA-6S) any deeper than 300 feet. We have fittings with clamps but those are just going to give you more security on the pull out. I do not think we can help you with your application due to the depth of the water. > > > > > > --- > > > > Barbra Rainone > > Sr. Customer Service Specialist ? Region 2 > > Sealcon > > Connect with me on LinkedIn > > Phone 800-456-9012 / 303-699-1135 Ext 5029 > > Email SalesRegion2 at SealconUSA.com > > Follow us on: > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 484149 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 04:41:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:41:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] strain relief fittings In-Reply-To: <02B34E09-DE19-48D2-89C7-65604821FD3D@yahoo.com> References: <02B34E09-DE19-48D2-89C7-65604821FD3D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <666415633.1502529.1592296919322@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I agree with Alan. ?You mentioned making a test chamber to test them. ?I always test mine, and just use a threaded pipe with fittings. ? It only takes a few minutes to screw it all together and test it. ?Then you know.Hank On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 1:53:32 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,have attached a screen shot of the blueglobe page where it says they are rated?up to 15 bar. That's 217 psi or round about 440ft.As said before Emile tested them to something like 3000ft. But still he & Carsten?doubled up on them.I am not sure what safety margin sealcon uses. Sometimes it's 4x with plastics, &it does have a plastic sealing insert. So maybe the cable would start extruding through?at 1200ft. Possibly more if they factor in ageing. The reps have to cover their butt incase you lose your life & sub using their product. I presume they sell the plasticsealing inserts that Blueglobe advises you change every time you untighten thefitting. You could change the inserts out every couple of years so that aging isn'ta factor.What is the worst case scenario if one fails at 350 ft? The metal housing of the glandisn't going to fail, just the insert; & if the cable is running through it then water is notgoing to flow through the gap left by the torn insert in a great volume!?You could calculate the water flow through the maximum hole size in the fittingif the gland & cable weren't there, & work out how much time you would havebefore the flooding was critical.Have heard of people putting their cables through valves so they can pull thewires out of connectors & close the valve off.That's my thoughts anyway.?Cheers Alan On 16/06/2020, at 4:20 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: | Barbara Rainone? | | | to?me | | This is the response I got after discussing my delima with Sealcon. I have half a grand now in useless?fittings unless they will take them back but I bought them about 4 years ago. guess I should have done my research a little better! Rick Hello Rick, ? I was discussing this with my team mate Randy and he agreed you will not be able to use that fitting (CD09NA-6S) any deeper than 300 feet.? We have fittings with clamps but those are just going to give you more security on the pull out.? I do not think we can help you with your application due to the depth of the water. ? ? --- | | Barbra Rainone Sr. Customer Service Specialist ? Region 2 Sealcon Connect with me on LinkedIn Phone?800-456-9012 / 303-699-1135?Ext?5029 Email??SalesRegion2 at SealconUSA.com Follow us on: ? ? | ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 484149 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 16:50:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 16:50:20 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone Message-ID: All, today I feel like I have reached another significant milestone on my project, and sometimes the "celebration" of posting a status update is all the reward we get : ) Seven and a half years ago I started rebuilding an older K-250 from the bare hull up. Today I started testing the electrical systems (HP air systems have successfully been tested). It was rewarding to see the battery monitoring system, depth sounder, aft thruster actuator, interior lights all come to life as expected. The general electrical system seems healthy. Later today I will try the thruster controllers. If I have a problem, it will be here. I am experimenting with "inexpensive" eBay controllers and I am emotionally preparing for a hardware failure. Maybe I will be presently surprised. If things go well I am on track for having enough operational systems to start my in water testing this year. Even if I have to rework the controllers I should be in the water next year for sure. I am really looking forward to joining the "operational" sub guys. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 17:18:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 15:18:25 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is always nice to hear about progress. Congratulations Steve Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 16, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > All, today I feel like I have reached another significant milestone on my project, and sometimes the "celebration" of posting a status update is all the reward we get : ) > > Seven and a half years ago I started rebuilding an older K-250 from the bare hull up. Today I started testing the electrical systems (HP air systems have successfully been tested). It was rewarding to see the battery monitoring system, depth sounder, aft thruster actuator, interior lights all come to life as expected. The general electrical system seems healthy. > > Later today I will try the thruster controllers. If I have a problem, it will be here. I am experimenting with "inexpensive" eBay controllers and I am emotionally preparing for a hardware failure. Maybe I will be presently surprised. If things go well I am on track for having enough operational systems to start my in water testing this year. Even if I have to rework the controllers I should be in the water next year for sure. > > I am really looking forward to joining the "operational" sub guys. > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 17:32:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 11:32:25 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good to Hear Steve. I love reaching those milestones myself and know the feeling you are talking about. Rick On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 11:19 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It is always nice to hear about progress. Congratulations Steve > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 16, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > ? > > All, today I feel like I have reached another significant milestone on > my project, and sometimes the "celebration" of posting a status update is > all the reward we get : ) > > > > Seven and a half years ago I started rebuilding an older K-250 from the > bare hull up. Today I started testing the electrical systems (HP air > systems have successfully been tested). It was rewarding to see the battery > monitoring system, depth sounder, aft thruster actuator, interior lights > all come to life as expected. The general electrical system seems healthy. > > > > Later today I will try the thruster controllers. If I have a problem, it > will be here. I am experimenting with "inexpensive" eBay controllers and I > am emotionally preparing for a hardware failure. Maybe I will be presently > surprised. If things go well I am on track for having enough operational > systems to start my in water testing this year. Even if I have to rework > the controllers I should be in the water next year for sure. > > > > I am really looking forward to joining the "operational" sub guys. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 17:52:12 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:52:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congrats Steve! I am really aware how considered every solution on your sub is. I am not at all surprised it is working well first time in your case! Best, Alec On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 4:51 PM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, today I feel like I have reached another significant milestone on my > project, and sometimes the "celebration" of posting a status update is all > the reward we get : ) > > Seven and a half years ago I started rebuilding an older K-250 from the > bare hull up. Today I started testing the electrical systems (HP air > systems have successfully been tested). It was rewarding to see the battery > monitoring system, depth sounder, aft thruster actuator, interior lights > all come to life as expected. The general electrical system seems healthy. > > Later today I will try the thruster controllers. If I have a problem, it > will be here. I am experimenting with "inexpensive" eBay controllers and I > am emotionally preparing for a hardware failure. Maybe I will be presently > surprised. If things go well I am on track for having enough operational > systems to start my in water testing this year. Even if I have to rework > the controllers I should be in the water next year for sure. > > I am really looking forward to joining the "operational" sub guys. > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 17:57:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:57:09 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94FA125D-6980-47EE-8715-2AE7D929DAA8@yahoo.com> Congratulations Steve, great milestone. I guess you could have a backup plan if one of the motor controllers failed, so you could motor back home. Could be just as simple as two heavy duty wires with clips to bypass the motor controller. Alan > On 17/06/2020, at 8:50 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, today I feel like I have reached another significant milestone on my project, and sometimes the "celebration" of posting a status update is all the reward we get : ) > > Seven and a half years ago I started rebuilding an older K-250 from the bare hull up. Today I started testing the electrical systems (HP air systems have successfully been tested). It was rewarding to see the battery monitoring system, depth sounder, aft thruster actuator, interior lights all come to life as expected. The general electrical system seems healthy. > > Later today I will try the thruster controllers. If I have a problem, it will be here. I am experimenting with "inexpensive" eBay controllers and I am emotionally preparing for a hardware failure. Maybe I will be presently surprised. If things go well I am on track for having enough operational systems to start my in water testing this year. Even if I have to rework the controllers I should be in the water next year for sure. > > I am really looking forward to joining the "operational" sub guys. > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 19:22:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 16:22:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone Message-ID: <20200616162215.3B832CDF@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 20:46:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:46:17 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Message-ID: Hi guy's I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to sell a couple of Russian and Korean hardhats but that she said she was in New York and the ad was only for the Big Island. I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of that going around but she said she was working for a production company that was similar to the Antique roadshow and hosted by the Comedian Jeff Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved. She said that it was not to sell the pieces but to have them appraised by someone and told what they were worth. It's going to be on the A&E channel. Anyway, it's legit and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they ask questions about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will be aired. I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking. Thanks Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 21:14:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:14:26 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick, can you post the video of it on Psubs Facebook. I'd be interested in seeing it when it happens. Alan > On 17/06/2020, at 12:46 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi guy's > > I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to sell a couple of Russian and Korean hardhats but that she said she was in New York and the ad was only for the Big Island. > I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of that going around but she said she was working for a production company that was similar to the Antique roadshow and hosted by the Comedian Jeff Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved. > She said that it was not to sell the pieces but to have them appraised by someone and told what they were worth. It's going to be on the A&E channel. > Anyway, it's legit and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they ask questions about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will be aired. > I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking. > Thanks > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 21:26:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 19:26:26 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Me to Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ?Rick, > can you post the video of it on Psubs Facebook. I'd be interested in > seeing it when it happens. > Alan > >> On 17/06/2020, at 12:46 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi guy's >> >> I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to sell a couple of Russian and Korean hardhats but that she said she was in New York and the ad was only for the Big Island. >> I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of that going around but she said she was working for a production company that was similar to the Antique roadshow and hosted by the Comedian Jeff Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved. >> She said that it was not to sell the pieces but to have them appraised by someone and told what they were worth. It's going to be on the A&E channel. >> Anyway, it's legit and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they ask questions about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will be aired. >> I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking. >> Thanks >> >> Rick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 21:38:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 01:38:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> Of course.? Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. Jon On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guy's I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to sell a couple?of Russian and? Korean hardhats but that she said she was in New York and the ad was only for the Big Island.?I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of that going around but she said she was working for a production company that was similar to the Antique?roadshow and hosted by the Comedian?Jeff Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved.?She said that it was not to sell the pieces?but to have them appraised by someone and told what?they were worth. It's going to be on the?A&E channel.?Anyway, it's legit?and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they ask questions?about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will be aired.I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking.Thanks Rick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 16 23:16:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:16:01 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OK, I kind of got the impression over the years that people wanted to reach out and make more aware of the group but I didn't want to assume that until I got permission. Like I said, they will undoubtedly ask about the sub but not sure what their questions will be and hope they don't ask me stuff I don't know and look like an idiot, which won't be the first time! I'll let the group know when it will be on at what time zone when I find out. Jon, I don't have facebook but I hear you guys set it up and converse on it. Should I just say "Psubs.org" and then maybe mention that construction pictures can be seen there of peoples projects?? I doubt they will know enough to ask but if they ask me what the crush depth is, I don't have a clew! Does anybody else know? It's a K-350. Rick On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:39 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Of course. Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. > > Jon > > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi guy's > > I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to > sell a couple of Russian and Korean hardhats but that she said she was in > New York and the ad was only for the Big Island. > I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of > that going around but she said she was working for a production company > that was similar to the Antique roadshow and hosted by the Comedian Jeff > Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved. > She said that it was not to sell the pieces but to have them appraised by > someone and told what they were worth. It's going to be on the A&E channel. > Anyway, it's legit and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the > appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in > the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they > ask questions about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention > Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will > be aired. > I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking. > Thanks > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 04:08:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 20:08:06 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <763AD85D-3C31-46F6-83F5-FA405A1B33EF@yahoo.com> Rick, in your case it doesn't have a crush depth. At 300ft all the blue globes implode & it fills up with water! Alan > On 17/06/2020, at 3:16 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > OK, I kind of got the impression over the years that people wanted to reach out and make more aware of the group but I didn't want to assume that until I got permission. > Like I said, they will undoubtedly ask about the sub but not sure what their questions will be and hope they don't ask me stuff I don't know and look like an idiot, which won't be the first time! I'll let the group know when it will be on at what time zone when I find out. Jon, I don't have facebook but I hear you guys set it up and converse on it. Should I just say "Psubs.org" and then maybe mention that construction pictures can be seen there of peoples projects?? I doubt they will know enough to ask but if they ask me what the crush depth is, I don't have a clew! Does anybody else know? It's a K-350. > Rick > >> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:39 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Of course. Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi guy's >> >> I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to sell a couple of Russian and Korean hardhats but that she said she was in New York and the ad was only for the Big Island. >> I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of that going around but she said she was working for a production company that was similar to the Antique roadshow and hosted by the Comedian Jeff Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved. >> She said that it was not to sell the pieces but to have them appraised by someone and told what they were worth. It's going to be on the A&E channel. >> Anyway, it's legit and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they ask questions about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will be aired. >> I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking. >> Thanks >> >> Rick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 06:54:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:54:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good work Steve, Look forward to seeing her in the water. Regards James On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 22:33, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Good to Hear Steve. I love reaching those milestones myself and know the > feeling you are talking about. > > Rick > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 11:19 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> It is always nice to hear about progress. Congratulations Steve >> Hank >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Jun 16, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > >> > ? >> > All, today I feel like I have reached another significant milestone on >> my project, and sometimes the "celebration" of posting a status update is >> all the reward we get : ) >> > >> > Seven and a half years ago I started rebuilding an older K-250 from the >> bare hull up. Today I started testing the electrical systems (HP air >> systems have successfully been tested). It was rewarding to see the battery >> monitoring system, depth sounder, aft thruster actuator, interior lights >> all come to life as expected. The general electrical system seems healthy. >> > >> > Later today I will try the thruster controllers. If I have a problem, >> it will be here. I am experimenting with "inexpensive" eBay controllers and >> I am emotionally preparing for a hardware failure. Maybe I will be >> presently surprised. If things go well I am on track for having enough >> operational systems to start my in water testing this year. Even if I have >> to rework the controllers I should be in the water next year for sure. >> > >> > I am really looking forward to joining the "operational" sub guys. >> > >> > Steve >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 10:12:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:12:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask.? There's a link to facebook from there. I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, but those are theoretical best case limits.? So 500-600 feet would be a fair statement.? Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:18:12 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK, I kind of got the impression over the years that people wanted to reach out and make more aware of the group but I didn't want to assume that until I got permission.?Like I said, they will undoubtedly?ask about the sub but not sure what?their questions will be and hope they don't ask me stuff I don't know and look like an idiot, which won't be the first time! I'll let the group know when it will be on at what time zone when I find out. Jon, I don't have facebook?but I hear you guys set it up and converse on it. Should I just say "Psubs.org" and then maybe mention that construction pictures can be seen there of peoples projects?? I doubt they will know enough to ask but if they ask me what the crush depth is, I don't have a clew! Does anybody else know? It's a K-350.Rick On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:39 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Of course.? Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. Jon On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guy's I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to sell a couple?of Russian and? Korean hardhats but that she said she was in New York and the ad was only for the Big Island.?I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of that going around but she said she was working for a production company that was similar to the Antique?roadshow and hosted by the Comedian?Jeff Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved.?She said that it was not to sell the pieces?but to have them appraised by someone and told what?they were worth. It's going to be on the?A&E channel.?Anyway, it's legit?and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they ask questions?about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will be aired.I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking.Thanks Rick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 11:39:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 08:39:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001801d644bd$715f5870$541e0950$@telus.net> Sounds great, Steve. Best of luck with the continued tests and subsequent launch. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:50 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone All, today I feel like I have reached another significant milestone on my project, and sometimes the "celebration" of posting a status update is all the reward we get : ) Seven and a half years ago I started rebuilding an older K-250 from the bare hull up. Today I started testing the electrical systems (HP air systems have successfully been tested). It was rewarding to see the battery monitoring system, depth sounder, aft thruster actuator, interior lights all come to life as expected. The general electrical system seems healthy. Later today I will try the thruster controllers. If I have a problem, it will be here. I am experimenting with "inexpensive" eBay controllers and I am emotionally preparing for a hardware failure. Maybe I will be presently surprised. If things go well I am on track for having enough operational systems to start my in water testing this year. Even if I have to rework the controllers I should be in the water next year for sure. I am really looking forward to joining the "operational" sub guys. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 13:25:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 07:25:53 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and pushed it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive at least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but does anyone know if that story is correct? Rick On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask. There's a link to > facebook from there. > > I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, > but those are theoretical best case limits. So 500-600 feet would be a > fair statement. Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to > predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. > > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:18:12 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > OK, I kind of got the impression over the years that people wanted to > reach out and make more aware of the group but I didn't want to assume that > until I got permission. > Like I said, they will undoubtedly ask about the sub but not sure > what their questions will be and hope they don't ask me stuff I don't know > and look like an idiot, which won't be the first time! I'll let the group > know when it will be on at what time zone when I find out. Jon, I don't > have facebook but I hear you guys set it up and converse on it. Should I > just say "Psubs.org" and then maybe mention that construction pictures can > be seen there of peoples projects?? I doubt they will know enough to ask > but if they ask me what the crush depth is, I don't have a clew! Does > anybody else know? It's a K-350. > Rick > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:39 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Of course. Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. > > Jon > > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi guy's > > I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to > sell a couple of Russian and Korean hardhats but that she said she was in > New York and the ad was only for the Big Island. > I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of > that going around but she said she was working for a production company > that was similar to the Antique roadshow and hosted by the Comedian Jeff > Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved. > She said that it was not to sell the pieces but to have them appraised by > someone and told what they were worth. It's going to be on the A&E channel. > Anyway, it's legit and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the > appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in > the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they > ask questions about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention > Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will > be aired. > I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking. > Thanks > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 14:15:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 18:15:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of Navy subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys at the shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the whole thing would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He told them the first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he figured that would happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly what happened. After the factory was built in Maine and he started on K-350s, he bought some 5' hemispheres and planned to build his own tank test facility for the shop. This was never completed. Almost every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot hole off the mouth of the Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for operatibns to 500 feet, and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot Bay. The K-600 was built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an inspector present. So, back to Annapolis. I think they tested it to 750 feet per Lloyd's instructions for certification to 600 feet. Later on, George reacquired the K600 and was on board with some other guys to buy a boat and take the whole package to Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 feet of water. He was confident the 600 would do that handily. They actually bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug the 'Snohomish', but the Colombians ended up saying sure, you can dive for treasure, but whatever you find belongs to the Colombian people, and you have to give it all to us. Which pretty much killed the profit margin on that particular pipe dream. If that hadn't happened, the K600 would have become a K900. Or so the story goes. Then George and I collaborated on the design for a K1000. I've got the initial prints, but that one was never built, either. Too bad. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2020 1:25 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Jon OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and pushed it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive at least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but does anyone know if that story is correct? Rick On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask.? There's a link to facebook from there. I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, but those are theoretical best case limits.? So 500-600 feet would be a fair statement.? Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:18:12 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK, I kind of got the impression over the years that people wanted to reach out and make more aware of the group but I didn't want to assume that until I got permission.?Like I said, they will undoubtedly?ask about the sub but not sure what?their questions will be and hope they don't ask me stuff I don't know and look like an idiot, which won't be the first time! I'll let the group know when it will be on at what time zone when I find out. Jon, I don't have facebook?but I hear you guys set it up and converse on it. Should I just say "Psubs.org" and then maybe mention that construction pictures can be seen there of peoples projects?? I doubt they will know enough to ask but if they ask me what the crush depth is, I don't have a clew! Does anybody else know? It's a K-350.Rick On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:39 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Of course.? Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. Jon On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guy's I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to sell a couple?of Russian and? Korean hardhats but that she said she was in New York and the ad was only for the Big Island.?I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of that going around but she said she was working for a production company that was similar to the Antique?roadshow and hosted by the Comedian?Jeff Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved.?She said that it was not to sell the pieces?but to have them appraised by someone and told what?they were worth. It's going to be on the?A&E channel.?Anyway, it's legit?and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they ask questions?about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will be aired.I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking.Thanks Rick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 14:24:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:24:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FaceBook and PSubs links Message-ID: <1C7B62F9-96F2-44F5-A360-196BDEA7D492@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 15:13:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:13:29 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FaceBook and PSubs links Message-ID: <229674429.2912.1592421209336@wamui-bella.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 15:59:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:59:41 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the history Vance, it's fun to hear the history of what he was up to during his career. Unfortunately some country's are that way, you find it, we get it. I would think that he would of known the calculated crush depth of all three models he built since he was selling them to the public. Does anyone know what the 350 is calculated for crush?I know there is a formula for doing stuff like that but that is way above my pay grade. Rick On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 8:16 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in > Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of Navy > subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys at the > shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the whole thing > would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He told them the > first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he figured that would > happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly what happened. After > the factory was built in Maine and he started on K-350s, he bought some 5' > hemispheres and planned to build his own tank test facility for the shop. > This was never completed. Almost every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot > hole off the mouth of the Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for > operatibns to 500 feet, and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot > Bay. The K-600 was built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an > inspector present. So, back to Annapolis. I think they tested it to 750 > feet per Lloyd's instructions for certification to 600 feet. Later on, > George reacquired the K600 and was on board with some other guys to buy a > boat and take the whole package to Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 feet > of water. He was confident the 600 would do that handily. They actually > bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug the 'Snohomish', but the Colombians > ended up saying sure, you can dive for treasure, but whatever you find > belongs to the Colombian people, and you have to give it all to us. Which > pretty much killed the profit margin on that particular pipe dream. If that > hadn't happened, the K600 would have become a K900. Or so the story goes. > Then George and I collaborated on the design for a K1000. I've got the > initial prints, but that one was never built, either. Too bad. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2020 1:25 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > > Jon > > OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the > unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. > Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first > developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and pushed > it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without > imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive at > least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but > does anyone know if that story is correct? > > Rick > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask. There's a link to > facebook from there. > > I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, > but those are theoretical best case limits. So 500-600 feet would be a > fair statement. Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to > predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. > > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:18:12 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > OK, I kind of got the impression over the years that people wanted to > reach out and make more aware of the group but I didn't want to assume that > until I got permission. > Like I said, they will undoubtedly ask about the sub but not sure > what their questions will be and hope they don't ask me stuff I don't know > and look like an idiot, which won't be the first time! I'll let the group > know when it will be on at what time zone when I find out. Jon, I don't > have facebook but I hear you guys set it up and converse on it. Should I > just say "Psubs.org" and then maybe mention that construction pictures can > be seen there of peoples projects?? I doubt they will know enough to ask > but if they ask me what the crush depth is, I don't have a clew! Does > anybody else know? It's a K-350. > Rick > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:39 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Of course. Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. > > Jon > > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi guy's > > I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to > sell a couple of Russian and Korean hardhats but that she said she was in > New York and the ad was only for the Big Island. > I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of > that going around but she said she was working for a production company > that was similar to the Antique roadshow and hosted by the Comedian Jeff > Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved. > She said that it was not to sell the pieces but to have them appraised by > someone and told what they were worth. It's going to be on the A&E channel. > Anyway, it's legit and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the > appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in > the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they > ask questions about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention > Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will > be aired. > I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking. > Thanks > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 16:35:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 20:35:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1328057455.307911.1592426129662@mail.yahoo.com> Actually, a 350 is the same as a 250, only with T ribs rather and L-angle ribs -- I've got pages of hand written calculations that show crush depths -- don't remember them offhand, but I'll try to dig some of that stuff out for you -- all of this was done by hand and on a slide rule, of course.?Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2020 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Thanks?for the history Vance, it's fun to hear the history of what he was up to during his career. Unfortunately some country's are that way, you find it, we get it. I would think that he would of known the calculated crush depth of all three models he built since he was selling them to the public. Does anyone know what the 350 is calculated for crush?I know there is a formula for doing stuff like that but that is way above my pay grade. Rick On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 8:16 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of Navy subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys at the shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the whole thing would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He told them the first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he figured that would happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly what happened. After the factory was built in Maine and he started on K-350s, he bought some 5' hemispheres and planned to build his own tank test facility for the shop. This was never completed. Almost every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot hole off the mouth of the Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for operatibns to 500 feet, and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot Bay. The K-600 was built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an inspector present. So, back to Annapolis. I think they tested it to 750 feet per Lloyd's instructions for certification to 600 feet. Later on, George reacquired the K600 and was on board with some other guys to buy a boat and take the whole package to Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 feet of water. He was confident the 600 would do that handily. They actually bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug the 'Snohomish', but the Colombians ended up saying sure, you can dive for treasure, but whatever you find belongs to the Colombian people, and you have to give it all to us. Which pretty much killed the profit margin on that particular pipe dream. If that hadn't happened, the K600 would have become a K900. Or so the story goes. Then George and I collaborated on the design for a K1000. I've got the initial prints, but that one was never built, either. Too bad. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2020 1:25 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Jon OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and pushed it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive at least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but does anyone know if that story is correct? Rick On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask.? There's a link to facebook from there. I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, but those are theoretical best case limits.? So 500-600 feet would be a fair statement.? Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:18:12 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK, I kind of got the impression over the years that people wanted to reach out and make more aware of the group but I didn't want to assume that until I got permission.?Like I said, they will undoubtedly?ask about the sub but not sure what?their questions will be and hope they don't ask me stuff I don't know and look like an idiot, which won't be the first time! I'll let the group know when it will be on at what time zone when I find out. Jon, I don't have facebook?but I hear you guys set it up and converse on it. Should I just say "Psubs.org" and then maybe mention that construction pictures can be seen there of peoples projects?? I doubt they will know enough to ask but if they ask me what the crush depth is, I don't have a clew! Does anybody else know? It's a K-350.Rick On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:39 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Of course.? Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. Jon On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guy's I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to sell a couple?of Russian and? Korean hardhats but that she said she was in New York and the ad was only for the Big Island.?I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of that going around but she said she was working for a production company that was similar to the Antique?roadshow and hosted by the Comedian?Jeff Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved.?She said that it was not to sell the pieces?but to have them appraised by someone and told what?they were worth. It's going to be on the?A&E channel.?Anyway, it's legit?and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they ask questions?about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will be aired.I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking.Thanks Rick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 16:49:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:49:42 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1328057455.307911.1592426129662@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <1328057455.307911.1592426129662@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OK, much appreciated. Rick On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 10:36 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Actually, a 350 is the same as a 250, only with T ribs rather and L-angle > ribs -- I've got pages of hand written calculations that show crush depths > -- don't remember them offhand, but I'll try to dig some of that stuff out > for you -- all of this was done by hand and on a slide rule, of course. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2020 3:59 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > > Thanks for the history Vance, it's fun to hear the history of what he was > up to during his career. Unfortunately some country's are that way, you > find it, we get it. I would think that he would of known the calculated > crush depth of all three models he built since he was selling them to the > public. Does anyone know what the 350 is calculated for crush?I know there > is a formula for doing stuff like that but that is way above my pay grade. > > Rick > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 8:16 AM via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in > Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of Navy > subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys at the > shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the whole thing > would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He told them the > first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he figured that would > happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly what happened. After > the factory was built in Maine and he started on K-350s, he bought some 5' > hemispheres and planned to build his own tank test facility for the shop. > This was never completed. Almost every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot > hole off the mouth of the Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for > operatibns to 500 feet, and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot > Bay. The K-600 was built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an > inspector present. So, back to Annapolis. I think they tested it to 750 > feet per Lloyd's instructions for certification to 600 feet. Later on, > George reacquired the K600 and was on board with some other guys to buy a > boat and take the whole package to Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 feet > of water. He was confident the 600 would do that handily. They actually > bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug the 'Snohomish', but the Colombians > ended up saying sure, you can dive for treasure, but whatever you find > belongs to the Colombian people, and you have to give it all to us. Which > pretty much killed the profit margin on that particular pipe dream. If that > hadn't happened, the K600 would have become a K900. Or so the story goes. > Then George and I collaborated on the design for a K1000. I've got the > initial prints, but that one was never built, either. Too bad. > > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2020 1:25 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > > Jon > > OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the > unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. > Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first > developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and pushed > it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without > imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive at > least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but > does anyone know if that story is correct? > > Rick > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask. There's a link to > facebook from there. > > I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, > but those are theoretical best case limits. So 500-600 feet would be a > fair statement. Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to > predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. > > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 11:18:12 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > OK, I kind of got the impression over the years that people wanted to > reach out and make more aware of the group but I didn't want to assume that > until I got permission. > Like I said, they will undoubtedly ask about the sub but not sure > what their questions will be and hope they don't ask me stuff I don't know > and look like an idiot, which won't be the first time! I'll let the group > know when it will be on at what time zone when I find out. Jon, I don't > have facebook but I hear you guys set it up and converse on it. Should I > just say "Psubs.org" and then maybe mention that construction pictures can > be seen there of peoples projects?? I doubt they will know enough to ask > but if they ask me what the crush depth is, I don't have a clew! Does > anybody else know? It's a K-350. > Rick > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:39 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Of course. Try to find out the date it will air so we can all watch. > > Jon > > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 08:48:21 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi guy's > > I was contacted a while ago regarding an ad that I had on Craig's list to > sell a couple of Russian and Korean hardhats but that she said she was in > New York and the ad was only for the Big Island. > I at first thought that this was some sort of scam as there is so much of > that going around but she said she was working for a production company > that was similar to the Antique roadshow and hosted by the Comedian Jeff > Foxworthy and wondered if I wanted to be involved. > She said that it was not to sell the pieces but to have them appraised by > someone and told what they were worth. It's going to be on the A&E channel. > Anyway, it's legit and I will be filmed Via Skype with Foxworthy and the > appraiser on 6-26-20. The sub was mentioned and they really want that in > the background so I have no Idea what they are going to ask me but if they > ask questions about the sub and they probably will, is it OK to mention > Pubs? If you are interested, I will let you know what date and time it will > be aired. > I didn't want to say anything about the group before asking. > Thanks > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 18:27:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 15:27:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] McQueen K-250 Milestone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congrats Steve, milestones are important as these builds do take some time. David On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 1:51 PM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, today I feel like I have reached another significant milestone on my > project, and sometimes the "celebration" of posting a status update is all > the reward we get : ) > > Seven and a half years ago I started rebuilding an older K-250 from the > bare hull up. Today I started testing the electrical systems (HP air > systems have successfully been tested). It was rewarding to see the battery > monitoring system, depth sounder, aft thruster actuator, interior lights > all come to life as expected. The general electrical system seems healthy. > > Later today I will try the thruster controllers. If I have a problem, it > will be here. I am experimenting with "inexpensive" eBay controllers and I > am emotionally preparing for a hardware failure. Maybe I will be presently > surprised. If things go well I am on track for having enough operational > systems to start my in water testing this year. Even if I have to rework > the controllers I should be in the water next year for sure. > > I am really looking forward to joining the "operational" sub guys. > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jun 17 19:13:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:13:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FaceBook and PSubs links In-Reply-To: <229674429.2912.1592421209336@wamui-bella.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <229674429.2912.1592421209336@wamui-bella.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <100304975.2063651.1592435602557@mail.yahoo.com> Ian is correct, the mailing list is open and free.? I'm not sure how to make the instructions any easier to find, it's under "Discussion" in the main menu that appears on every page.? As an aside, nobody should be submitting money for membership or renewal at this point because the software I use to automate the process needs an update.? Nobody is losing their membership for non-renewal at this point. The Facebook page is unfortunately private.? I wish I could change it to public but Facebook no longer allows changing groups back and forth between public/private, so we are stuck with adding people manually.? I am not on Facebook a whole lot but went on today and approved all pending requests.? If someone who is a regular FB user wants to volunteer to be an "admin" I will set that up and they can approve new requests. On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 03:15:28 PM EDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: This mailing list is open and you can just join.Instructions are here (no fee required):http://www.psubs.org/mlist/ Look forward to hearing about the diving bell conversion. Cheers,? Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Jun 17, 2020 11:24 AM To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FaceBook and PSubs links ? Hey all, ? Over the last few weeks/months I?ve been sending out invites to the FB page to friends of mine.? They accepted the invitation today and joined up.? When I asked they said they just received the invite. ? Also, I?ve been talking to Grant in South Africa who is converting a saturation diving bell to a sub.? He?s made pretty amazing progress and will be a great boat when he?s done. ??He said he had paid the online website fee to join PSubs and then didn?t hear anything.? He?d like to join this email list too, but hasn?t been invited. ? What?s the roadblock and how do we get it removed? ? Brian and the good submarine boat Harold. ? ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 03:52:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 19:52:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Blueglobe References: Message-ID: Rick, just recieved a Digi-key mailer with a blueglobe with improved strain relief advertised. Digikey link to blueglobes. https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=Pflitsch%20blueglobe Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 08:20:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:20:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop guards References: <870907339.98973.1592482856431.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <870907339.98973.1592482856431@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I am looking for some sort of screened prop guards that won't break the bank. ?Any ideas?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 08:26:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:26:36 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop guards In-Reply-To: <870907339.98973.1592482856431@mail.yahoo.com> References: <870907339.98973.1592482856431.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <870907339.98973.1592482856431@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, can you explain exactly what you're getting at? Do you mean a prop guard as in a low profile non-accelerating duct? Or a skeg of some sort? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 18, 2020, 06:20, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, I am looking for some sort of screened prop guards that won't break the bank. Any ideas? > Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 08:35:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:35:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop guards In-Reply-To: References: <870907339.98973.1592482856431.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <870907339.98973.1592482856431@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1954957405.96251.1592483731456@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, I need prop guards to prevent entanglementsHank On Thursday, June 18, 2020, 6:27:02 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, can you explain exactly what you're getting at? Do you mean a prop guard as in a low profile non-accelerating duct? Or a skeg of some sort? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 18, 2020, 06:20, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, I am looking for some sort of screened prop guards that won't break the bank. ?Any ideas?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 61O5rbWbHUL._AC_SL1000_.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 55590 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 08:46:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:46:54 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop guards In-Reply-To: <1954957405.96251.1592483731456@mail.yahoo.com> References: <870907339.98973.1592482856431.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <870907339.98973.1592482856431@mail.yahoo.com> <1954957405.96251.1592483731456@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd be a bit concerned about propellor efficiency given the disturbance to the upstream water flow, but I guess if I were to fabricate something without going to the effort of profiling an actual foil section, perhaps a length of pipe as the duct with three flat bar supports, and some sort of welded wire mesh or expanded metal grate formed over the upstream side - as open a mesh as I could accept. I'd also be a bit concerned about fouling the screen, and if you did happen to suck something in, it will be that much more difficult to clear it again. Double edged sword? Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 18, 2020, 06:35, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, I need prop guards to prevent entanglements > Hank > > On Thursday, June 18, 2020, 6:27:02 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, can you explain exactly what you're getting at? Do you mean a prop guard as in a low profile non-accelerating duct? Or a skeg of some sort? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jun. 18, 2020, 06:20, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Hi All, I am looking for some sort of screened prop guards that won't break the bank. Any ideas? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 08:49:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 08:49:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers.? If I change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet.? I suppose when trying to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be acceptable in the calculator.? It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 feet.? That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even so, my opinion is that's overkill. Jon On 6/17/2020 1:25 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon > > OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the > unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound > correct. Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 > when first developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for > 1,200 and pushed it down to that depth to see if it could take that > pressure without imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that > design would survive at least to that depth without failure. Can't > remember who told me that but does anyone know if that story is correct? > > Rick > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask.? There's a link > to facebook from there. > > I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull > caps, but those are theoretical best case limits.? So 500-600 feet > would be a fair statement.? Given all the fabrication variables > there is no way to predict a specific depth which is why we use > safety margins. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 09:11:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:11:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] prop guards In-Reply-To: References: <870907339.98973.1592482856431.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <870907339.98973.1592482856431@mail.yahoo.com> <1954957405.96251.1592483731456@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <143331373.125083.1592485864802@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, is that disturbance an issue at such low speeds?Hank On Thursday, June 18, 2020, 6:47:19 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I'd be a bit concerned about propellor efficiency given the disturbance to the upstream water flow, but I guess if I were to fabricate something without going to the effort of profiling an actual foil section, perhaps a length of pipe as the duct with three flat bar supports, and some sort of welded wire mesh or expanded metal grate formed over the upstream side - as open a mesh as I could accept. I'd also be a bit concerned about fouling the screen, and if you did happen to suck something in, it will be that much more difficult to clear it again. Double edged sword? Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 18, 2020, 06:35, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, I need prop guards to prevent entanglementsHank On Thursday, June 18, 2020, 6:27:02 AM MDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, can you explain exactly what you're getting at? Do you mean a prop guard as in a low profile non-accelerating duct? Or a skeg of some sort? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 18, 2020, 06:20, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, I am looking for some sort of screened prop guards that won't break the bank. ?Any ideas?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 09:16:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:16:10 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Minimum usage factor specified by ABS is 1.25, specific to the inter-stiffener strength failure mode, which is far more predictable than the instability modes. Consequently, the usage factors on those modes are greater so that the design failure pressure is always deterministic. When you build from tough steel though, as is the case with ASTM A516 grade 70 N which many of us are using, the steel can actually yield and undergo plastic deformation to a significant extent (slow crush) and may not even reach its ultimate strength limit before hitting the safety factor on a buckling mode (implosion). Thus, the maximum allowable working pressure specified by ABS is the pressure at the yield point at an interstiffener strength failure divided by 1.25, but this is still somewhat removed from the actual survivability limit, which has a probability distribution that effectively begins at the inter-stiffener strength failure with usage factor 1.0, and extends past the buckling modes (also at 1.0). Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jun. 18, 2020, 06:49, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers. If I change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet. I suppose when trying to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be acceptable in the calculator. It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 feet. That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even so, my opinion is that's overkill. > > Jon > > On 6/17/2020 1:25 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Jon >> >> OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and pushed it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive at least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but does anyone know if that story is correct? >> >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask. There's a link to facebook from there. >>> >>> I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, but those are theoretical best case limits. So 500-600 feet would be a fair statement. Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 09:25:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:25:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nice history lesson Vance.? We need you to write a book.? Regarding K600, it was tested to 380 psi at Annapolis, so 850-877 feet depending upon salt or fresh water. I've got the placards that were attached to the sub, a photo of them at SUBDB.INFO.? Easy to understand why George felt he could get to 900+ feet with it.? I've got all the documentation regarding the K600 build including calcs, notes, and communications.? My impression is that the K600 fabrication ended with lots of animosity between Kittredge and the buyer, both not trusting the other.? Kittredge was suppose to build additional K600's for the company but because of their mutual "issues", both parties agreed to end their business agreement and so only one was ever built.? I know that the engineer for the company required Kittredge to install thicker end caps, and also required thru-hull penetrator cables for main batteries rather than the K-350 design.? I've got the invoice as well, final cost of the certified K600 in 1979 was $101,000. Jon On 6/17/2020 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in > Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of > Navy subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys > at the shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the > whole thing would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He > told them the first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he > figured that would happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly > what happened. After the factory was built in Maine and he started on > K-350s, he bought some 5' hemispheres and planned to build his own > tank test facility for the shop. This was never completed. Almost > every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot hole off the mouth of the > Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for operatibns to 500 feet, > and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot Bay. The K-600 was > built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an inspector present. > So, back to Annapolis. I think they tested it to 750 feet per Lloyd's > instructions for certification to 600 feet. Later on, George > reacquired the K600 and was on board with some other guys to buy a > boat and take the whole package to Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 > feet of water. He was confident the 600 would do that handily. They > actually bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug the 'Snohomish', but > the Colombians ended up saying sure, you can dive for treasure, but > whatever you find belongs to the Colombian people, and you have to > give it all to us. Which pretty much killed the profit margin on that > particular pipe dream. If that hadn't happened, the K600 would have > become a K900. Or so the story goes. Then George and I collaborated on > the design for a K1000. I've got the initial prints, but that one was > never built, either. Too bad. > > Vance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 10:38:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:38:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Nice history lesson Vance.? We need you to write a book.? Regarding K600, it was tested to 380 psi at Annapolis, so 850-877 feet depending upon salt or fresh water.? I've got the placards that were attached to the sub, a photo of them at SUBDB.INFO.? Easy to understand why George felt he could get to 900+ feet with it.? I've got all the documentation regarding the K600 build including calcs, notes, and communications.? My impression is that the K600 fabrication ended with lots of animosity between Kittredge and the buyer, both not trusting the other.? Kittredge was suppose to build additional K600's for the company but because of their mutual "issues", both parties agreed to end their business agreement and so only one was ever built.? I know that the engineer for the company required Kittredge to install thicker end caps, and also required thru-hull penetrator cables for main batteries rather than the K-350 design.? I've got the invoice as well, final cost of the certified K600 in 1979 was $101,000. Jon On 6/17/2020 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of Navy subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys at the shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the whole thing would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He told them the first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he figured that would happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly what happened. After the factory was built in Maine and he started on K-350s, he bought some 5' hemispheres and planned to build his own tank test facility for the shop. This was never completed. Almost every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot hole off the mouth of the Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for operatibns to 500 feet, and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot Bay. The K-600 was built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an inspector present. So, back to Annapolis. I think they tested it to 750 feet per Lloyd's instructions for certification to 600 feet. Later on, George reacquired the K600 and was on board with some other guys to buy a boat and take the whole package to Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 feet of water. He was confident the 600 would do that handily. They actually bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug the 'Snohomish', but the Colombians ended up saying sure, you can dive for treasure, but whatever you find belongs to the Colombian people, and you have to give it all to us. Which pretty much killed the profit margin on that particular pipe dream. If that hadn't happened, the K600 would have become a K900. Or so the story goes. Then George and I collaborated on the design for a K1000. I've got the initial prints, but that one was never built, either. Too bad. Vance _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 12:30:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:30:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's K600 In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Changing the thread. Jon, give us an update on the 600 ? On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 8:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers. If I > change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet. I suppose when trying > to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be > acceptable in the calculator. It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, > etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 > feet. That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even so, > my opinion is that's overkill. > > Jon > > On 6/17/2020 1:25 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon > > OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the > unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. > Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first > developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and pushed > it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without > imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive at > least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but > does anyone know if that story is correct? > > Rick > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask. There's a link to >> facebook from there. >> >> I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, >> but those are theoretical best case limits. So 500-600 feet would be a >> fair statement. Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to >> predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 19:20:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:20:39 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, Are you talking about test or crush depth on the 350? Rick On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers. If I > change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet. I suppose when trying > to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be > acceptable in the calculator. It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, > etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 > feet. That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even so, > my opinion is that's overkill. > > Jon > > On 6/17/2020 1:25 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon > > OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the > unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. > Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first > developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and pushed > it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without > imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive at > least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but > does anyone know if that story is correct? > > Rick > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask. There's a link to >> facebook from there. >> >> I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, >> but those are theoretical best case limits. So 500-600 feet would be a >> fair statement. Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to >> predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jun 18 20:34:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 17:34:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 84, Issue 42 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jon, I'd be willing to moderate the facebook group. I'm (unfortunately) active on that website and can keep the riff-raff out. -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 9:32 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: publicity (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: publicity (via Personal_Submersibles) > 3. Re: Jon's K600 (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:25:41 -0400 > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > > Nice history lesson Vance.? We need you to write a book.? Regarding > K600, it was tested to 380 psi at Annapolis, so 850-877 feet depending > upon salt or fresh water. I've got the placards that were attached to > the sub, a photo of them at SUBDB.INFO.? Easy to understand why George > felt he could get to 900+ feet with it.? I've got all the documentation > regarding the K600 build including calcs, notes, and communications.? My > impression is that the K600 fabrication ended with lots of animosity > between Kittredge and the buyer, both not trusting the other.? Kittredge > was suppose to build additional K600's for the company but because of > their mutual "issues", both parties agreed to end their business > agreement and so only one was ever built.? I know that the engineer for > the company required Kittredge to install thicker end caps, and also > required thru-hull penetrator cables for main batteries rather than the > K-350 design.? I've got the invoice as well, final cost of the certified > K600 in 1979 was $101,000. > > Jon > > > On 6/17/2020 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in > > Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of > > Navy subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys > > at the shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the > > whole thing would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He > > told them the first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he > > figured that would happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly > > what happened. After the factory was built in Maine and he started on > > K-350s, he bought some 5' hemispheres and planned to build his own > > tank test facility for the shop. This was never completed. Almost > > every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot hole off the mouth of the > > Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for operatibns to 500 feet, > > and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot Bay. The K-600 was > > built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an inspector present. > > So, back to Annapolis. I think they tested it to 750 feet per Lloyd's > > instructions for certification to 600 feet. Later on, George > > reacquired the K600 and was on board with some other guys to buy a > > boat and take the whole package to Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 > > feet of water. He was confident the 600 would do that handily. They > > actually bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug the 'Snohomish', but > > the Colombians ended up saying sure, you can dive for treasure, but > > whatever you find belongs to the Colombian people, and you have to > > give it all to us. Which pretty much killed the profit margin on that > > particular pipe dream. If that hadn't happened, the K600 would have > > become a K900. Or so the story goes. Then George and I collaborated on > > the design for a K1000. I've got the initial prints, but that one was > > never built, either. Too bad. > > > > Vance > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20200618/81c309f4/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:38:34 +0000 (UTC) > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > Message-ID: <907362031.125870.1592491114591 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were > dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North > Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They > could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 > meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was > that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people > in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck > of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was > going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It > was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to > see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it.Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 9:25 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > > > Nice history lesson Vance.? We need you to write a book.? Regarding > K600, it was tested to 380 psi at Annapolis, so 850-877 feet depending upon > salt or fresh water.? I've got the placards that were attached to the sub, > a photo of them at SUBDB.INFO.? Easy to understand why George felt he > could get to 900+ feet with it.? I've got all the documentation regarding > the K600 build including calcs, notes, and communications.? My impression > is that the K600 fabrication ended with lots of animosity between Kittredge > and the buyer, both not trusting the other.? Kittredge was suppose to build > additional K600's for the company but because of their mutual "issues", > both parties agreed to end their business agreement and so only one was > ever built.? I know that the engineer for the company required Kittredge to > install thicker end caps, and also required thru-hull penetrator cables for > main batteries rather than the K-350 design.? I've got the invoice as well, > final cost of the certifie! > d K600 in 1979 was $101,000. > Jon > > > On 6/17/2020 2:15 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > True in parts. George tested an early K-250 in the Navy test tank in > Annapolis. His buddy the Admiral was a structural design engineer of Navy > subs, and had done the figures on the little sub's hull. The boys at the > shop in Maryland didn't take them seriously. They figured the whole thing > would implode at about twenty feet. George knew better. He told them the > first thing to go would be the acrylic dome, and he figured that would > happen at 800 feet or thereabouts. Which is exactly what happened. After > the factory was built in Maine and he started on K-350s, he bought some 5' > hemispheres and planned to build his own tank test facility for the shop. > This was never completed. Almost every sub was drop tested in a 500 foot > hole off the mouth of the Weskeag River. A couple of them were built for > operatibns to 500 feet, and were tested in deeper water out in Penobscot > Bay. The K-600 was built to Lloyd's spec had to be tank tested with an > inspector present. So, back to Annapolis. I! > think they tested it to 750 feet per Lloyd's instructions for > certification to 600 feet. Later on, George reacquired the K600 and was on > board with some other guys to buy a boat and take the whole package to > Columbia for a treasure hunt in 900 feet of water. He was confident the 600 > would do that handily. They actually bought the old Coast Guard coastal tug > the 'Snohomish', but the Colombians ended up saying sure, you can dive for > treasure, but whatever you find belongs to the Colombian people, and you > have to give it all to us. Which pretty much killed the profit margin on > that particular pipe dream. If that hadn't happened, the K600 would have > become a K900. Or so the story goes. Then George and I collaborated on the > design for a K1000. I've got the initial prints, but that one was never > built, either. Too bad. > Vance > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20200618/93e8c77d/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:30:19 -0400 > From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's K600 > Message-ID: > rcQb8Y02p6EL1rJx3S87TvVA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Changing the thread. > > Jon, give us an update on the 600 ? > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 8:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers. If I > > change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet. I suppose when > trying > > to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be > > acceptable in the calculator. It's been my understanding that ABS, > Lloyds, > > etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 > > feet. That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even > so, > > my opinion is that's overkill. > > > > Jon > > > > On 6/17/2020 1:25 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Jon > > > > OK sounds good. I was asking for the crush depth of a K-350 and the > > unmanned test depth for one hour is 600' so that doesn't sound correct. > > Someone told me a while ago that Ketteredge had put a 350 when first > > developed in a hyperbaric chamber that was only rated for 1,200 and > pushed > > it down to that depth to see if it could take that pressure without > > imploding and nothing happened so he knew that that design would survive > at > > least to that depth without failure. Can't remember who told me that but > > does anyone know if that story is correct? > > > > Rick > > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > >> Just point them to the website Rick, if they ask. There's a link to > >> facebook from there. > >> > >> I get 665 feet for the pressure cylinder and 576 feet for the hull caps, > >> but those are theoretical best case limits. So 500-600 feet would be a > >> fair statement. Given all the fabrication variables there is no way to > >> predict a specific depth which is why we use safety margins. > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20200618/099ed36d/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 84, Issue 42 > ***************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 00:18:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 00:18:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> Theoretical crush depth. On 6/18/2020 7:20 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > Are you talking about test or crush depth on the 350? > Rick > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same > numbers.? If I change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 > feet.? I suppose when trying to ascertain a theoretical crush > depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be acceptable in the > calculator.? It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, etc, > look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at > 525 feet.? That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, > but even so, my opinion is that's overkill. > > Jon > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 00:33:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 18:33:24 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> Message-ID: Thanks Jon, that's what I thought you were referring too but just wanted to clarify it as you had said 525 feet and I could have sworn that the captain had said to test it unmanned at 600 feet for one hour so I am confused as that's more than the ABS calcs of 1.5? Dan Hycroft built a 350 and tested his to 550' as that's the deepest hole he could find in the lake he tested in. James, you just built one, what did you test your's at? Rick On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Theoretical crush depth. > > > On 6/18/2020 7:20 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > Are you talking about test or crush depth on the 350? > Rick > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers. If I >> change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet. I suppose when trying >> to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be >> acceptable in the calculator. It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, >> etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 >> feet. That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even so, >> my opinion is that's overkill. >> >> Jon >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 09:37:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 13:37:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, your reference to 600 feet is the first I've heard of a standard test depth for the 350.? Deep water is difficult to find in lakes within the continental US with only 15 of them being 600 feet or deeper.? Kittredge lived on the coast and had direct access to deep water, plus being a manufacturer and having a need to promote his products as safe vessels would have wanted to test near the limits of the vessel. Let me see if I can clarify the numbers. 525 feet is 1.5x the nominal max operating depth of 350 feet.? I believe most certifying agencies want 1.4 or 1.5 safety margins...I could be wrong about that, but it's what I think they want. 576 feet is the maximum "theoretical" operating depth of the K350 based upon nominal usage factors as defined within ASME/ABS design calculations.? This represents a 1.64 safety margin. Both those numbers are close to 600 feet which is likely why Kittredge tested to that depth, or close to it.?? As a side reference, the K600 was tested to 380 psi or 842 feet of seawater, and certified by ABS, which is a 1.42 safety factor. Jon On Friday, June 19, 2020, 12:35:19 AM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Jon, that's what I thought you were referring too? but just wanted to clarify it as you had said 525 feet and I could have sworn that the captain?had said to test it unmanned at 600 feet for one hour so I am confused as that's more than the ABS calcs of 1.5? Dan Hycroft built a 350 and tested his to 550' as that's the deepest hole he could find in the lake he tested in. James, you just built one, what did you test your's at? Rick On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Theoretical crush depth. On 6/18/2020 7:20 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, Are you talking about test or crush depth on the 350?? Rick On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers.? If I change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet.? I suppose when trying to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be acceptable in the calculator.? It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 feet.? That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even so, my opinion is that's overkill. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 09:41:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 09:41:39 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's K600 In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Steve, Unfortunately I don't have much to report.? The sub is stripped and waiting for a complete sandblasting and repainting.? I thought I had the sandblasting all set to go last year but those plans fell through and I am in search of another sandblaster in my area that can handle the work.? I suspect however that I will have to travel with the sub to a larger locality that has more service options.? I would be tempted to hire one of those "water sandblasters" that come to your location, but I have no way to lift the submarine so the bottom can be done.? I suppose I could rebuild my gantry crane to accomplish that but I was only able to lift it about three feet off the ground and I'm not sure that's enough room for them. I had hoped to have my electronic environment software working by this time however parts are just starting to come in now after so many suppliers shut down due to Covid-19.? I do have my circuit boards however and have started soldering the various modules onto it. Jon On 6/18/2020 12:30 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Changing the thread. > > Jon, give us an update on the 600 ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 09:47:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 09:47:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's K600 In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: John, thanks for the update. I've not had the challenges of being in a rural area so I'm sure that's not helpful. Once you get it blasted and painted you'll see what a big motivation that is and a big milestone to move forward with the fun stuff! On Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 9:42 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Steve, > > Unfortunately I don't have much to report. The sub is stripped and > waiting for a complete sandblasting and repainting. I thought I had the > sandblasting all set to go last year but those plans fell through and I > am in search of another sandblaster in my area that can handle the > work. I suspect however that I will have to travel with the sub to a > larger locality that has more service options. I would be tempted to > hire one of those "water sandblasters" that come to your location, but I > have no way to lift the submarine so the bottom can be done. I suppose > I could rebuild my gantry crane to accomplish that but I was only able > to lift it about three feet off the ground and I'm not sure that's > enough room for them. > > I had hoped to have my electronic environment software working by this > time however parts are just starting to come in now after so many > suppliers shut down due to Covid-19. I do have my circuit boards > however and have started soldering the various modules onto it. > > Jon > > > > > On 6/18/2020 12:30 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Changing the thread. > > > > Jon, give us an update on the 600 ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 11:23:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 15:23:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <489395003.539894.1592580190326@mail.yahoo.com> Wait, back up. The 600 has ABS certs?Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 9:37 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Rick, your reference to 600 feet is the first I've heard of a standard test depth for the 350.? Deep water is difficult to find in lakes within the continental US with only 15 of them being 600 feet or deeper.? Kittredge lived on the coast and had direct access to deep water, plus being a manufacturer and having a need to promote his products as safe vessels would have wanted to test near the limits of the vessel. Let me see if I can clarify the numbers. 525 feet is 1.5x the nominal max operating depth of 350 feet.? I believe most certifying agencies want 1.4 or 1.5 safety margins...I could be wrong about that, but it's what I think they want. 576 feet is the maximum "theoretical" operating depth of the K350 based upon nominal usage factors as defined within ASME/ABS design calculations.? This represents a 1.64 safety margin. Both those numbers are close to 600 feet which is likely why Kittredge tested to that depth, or close to it.?? As a side reference, the K600 was tested to 380 psi or 842 feet of seawater, and certified by ABS, which is a 1.42 safety factor. Jon On Friday, June 19, 2020, 12:35:19 AM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Jon, that's what I thought you were referring too? but just wanted to clarify it as you had said 525 feet and I could have sworn that the captain?had said to test it unmanned at 600 feet for one hour so I am confused as that's more than the ABS calcs of 1.5? Dan Hycroft built a 350 and tested his to 550' as that's the deepest hole he could find in the lake he tested in. James, you just built one, what did you test your's at? Rick On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Theoretical crush depth. On 6/18/2020 7:20 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, Are you talking about test or crush depth on the 350?? Rick On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers.? If I change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet.? I suppose when trying to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be acceptable in the calculator.? It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 feet.? That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even so, my opinion is that's overkill. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 08:55:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 02:55:32 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon sorry to beat this to death but still confused. As I understand it, vessels for human occupency have 3 depth ratings. Operating depth, unmanned test depth, and crush depth. So that being said, I am under the understanding that the calculated safe working depth of the 350 is 350', not 525 or 576' so are you saying that the 350 can go to those deeper depths as it was tested to those depths and didn't crush but the (safe working depth is 350)? as an example to compare this to, a certian size cable will part at 1,000 lbs of pull so they rate it at 250 lbs of pull due to the 4 to 1 safty factor built in but it is possible to pull it to just under 1,000 lbs with out it parting? Just trying to put this into perspective, sorry. Rick On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, your reference to 600 feet is the first I've heard of a standard > test depth for the 350. Deep water is difficult to find in lakes within > the continental US with only 15 of them being 600 feet or deeper. > Kittredge lived on the coast and had direct access to deep water, plus > being a manufacturer and having a need to promote his products as safe > vessels would have wanted to test near the limits of the vessel. > > Let me see if I can clarify the numbers. > > 525 feet is 1.5x the nominal max operating depth of 350 feet. I believe > most certifying agencies want 1.4 or 1.5 safety margins...I could be wrong > about that, but it's what I think they want. > > 576 feet is the maximum "theoretical" operating depth of the K350 based > upon nominal usage factors as defined within ASME/ABS design calculations. > This represents a 1.64 safety margin. > > Both those numbers are close to 600 feet which is likely why Kittredge > tested to that depth, or close to it. > > As a side reference, the K600 was tested to 380 psi or 842 feet of > seawater, and certified by ABS, which is a 1.42 safety factor. > > > Jon > > > On Friday, June 19, 2020, 12:35:19 AM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Jon, that's what I thought you were referring too but just wanted > to clarify it as you had said 525 feet and I could have sworn that the > captain had said to test it unmanned at 600 feet for one hour so I am > confused as that's more than the ABS calcs of 1.5? Dan Hycroft built a 350 > and tested his to 550' as that's the deepest hole he could find in the lake > he tested in. James, you just built one, what did you test your's at? > > Rick > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Theoretical crush depth. > > > On 6/18/2020 7:20 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > Are you talking about test or crush depth on the 350? > Rick > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 2:50 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I ran the numbers again in the calculator and got the same numbers. If I > change the usage factor to 1.0 then I get 884 feet. I suppose when trying > to ascertain a theoretical crush depth a usage factor of 1.0 would be > acceptable in the calculator. It's been my understanding that ABS, Lloyds, > etc, look for a safety factor of about 1.5 which would put the 350 at 525 > feet. That may explain the 600 foot test depth you mentioned, but even so, > my opinion is that's overkill. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 09:20:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 03:20:56 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <20200615134028.58202CB@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200615134028.58202CB@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian sorry I didn't answer sooner as been crazy. I will be passing a depth sounder wire, a UTC underwater comms transducer wire, a VHF radio antenna cable and LED lights which is about 5/16" diameter with 4 insulated wires inside of it. Rick On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:41 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, What are you trying to run through there? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 06:50:04 -1000 > > Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain relief fittings > and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't work. they said that > they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable on the pressure side > to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them and do some testing to > see if this will be an option or not. > jRick > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Ian, > > https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ > I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the > facilitator / owner > of the group a long time ago. > He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. > There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. > He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! > Cheers Alan > > On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? How > does that work? > > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Ian, > I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from > subConn > that makes them. > Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a > securing > device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). > I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it > would just > be an opportunity for corrosion. > Alan > > > > On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing > through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been > able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look > stuff up. > When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight > bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, > this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the > connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it > again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and > construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet > mate" connectors: > http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ > I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV > project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its > depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull > connectors, and they will be similar to this design. > The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring > (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber > connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the > bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets > compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a > pretty picture: > > > I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes > through the bulkhead. > The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 > feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was > the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical > connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing > through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through > connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. > The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no > splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This > further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak > point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself > was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel > 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. > The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and > the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the > inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you > pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction > of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that > travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water > through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to > right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated > for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically > (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The > biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring > seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken > hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). > I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube > probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical > locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the > greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside > to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and > rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those > connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a > connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make > my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those > reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, > including right to the bottom of the brass tube. > The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can > make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your > electrical current needs. > > These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but > I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace > water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins > had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance > the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the > electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. > Hope that helps, > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and > only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most > of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue > Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 09:33:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 03:33:31 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <20200615134028.58202CB@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Someone had mentioned Titan fittings as a source for a thru hull strain relief fitting but I just called them and the salsman didn't know anything about them. Who ever recommended them, do you have a part number I can give them? Rick On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 3:20 AM Rick Patton wrote: > Brian > sorry I didn't answer sooner as been crazy. I will be passing a > depth sounder wire, a UTC underwater comms transducer wire, a VHF > radio antenna cable and LED lights which is about 5/16" diameter with 4 > insulated wires inside of it. > > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:41 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, What are you trying to run through there? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings >> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 06:50:04 -1000 >> >> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain relief fittings >> and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't work. they said that >> they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable on the pressure side >> to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them and do some testing to >> see if this will be an option or not. >> jRick >> >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Ian, >> >> https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ >> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the >> facilitator / owner >> of the group a long time ago. >> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. >> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. >> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! >> Cheers Alan >> >> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? >> How does that work? >> >> Ian >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Ian, >> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from >> subConn >> that makes them. >> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a >> securing >> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it >> would just >> be an opportunity for corrosion. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Rick, >> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing >> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been >> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look >> stuff up. >> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight >> bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, >> this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the >> connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it >> again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and >> construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet >> mate" connectors: >> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my >> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its >> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull >> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring >> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber >> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the >> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets >> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a >> pretty picture: >> >> >> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes >> through the bulkhead. >> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 >> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was >> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical >> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing >> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through >> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no >> splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This >> further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak >> point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself >> was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel >> 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and >> the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the >> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you >> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction >> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that >> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water >> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to >> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated >> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically >> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The >> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring >> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken >> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube >> probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical >> locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the >> greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside >> to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and >> rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those >> connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a >> connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make >> my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those >> reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, >> including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can >> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your >> electrical current needs. >> >> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, >> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace >> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins >> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance >> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the >> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >> Hope that helps, >> Ian >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >> Thanks >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 18:51:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 18:51:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <489395003.539894.1592580190326@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> <489395003.539894.1592580190326@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <11b88ed9-820d-a7a4-8049-c8b85d1421df@psubs.org> No, sorry, its Lloyds On 6/19/2020 11:23 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Wait, back up. The 600 has ABS certs? > Vance > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 19:18:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 19:18:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <20200615134028.58202CB@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Rick, it was me. I haven't used any strain relief pipe fittings unless you consider the blue globe compression fittings to be in that category. I recommended them for somebody who was looking for metric adapter fittings. I have purchased several stainless steel type fitting / adapters from them and they seem to be good quality. On Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 6:48 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Someone had mentioned Titan fittings as a source for a thru hull strain > relief fitting but I just called them and the salsman didn't know > anything about them. Who ever recommended them, do you have a part number I > can give them? > Rick > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 3:20 AM Rick Patton wrote: > >> Brian >> sorry I didn't answer sooner as been crazy. I will be passing a >> depth sounder wire, a UTC underwater comms transducer wire, a VHF >> radio antenna cable and LED lights which is about 5/16" diameter with 4 >> insulated wires inside of it. >> >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:41 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Rick, What are you trying to run through there? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings >>> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 06:50:04 -1000 >>> >>> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain >>> relief fittings and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't >>> work. they said that they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable >>> on the pressure side to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them >>> and do some testing to see if this will be an option or not. >>> jRick >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Ian, >>> >>> https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ >>> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the >>> facilitator / owner >>> of the group a long time ago. >>> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. >>> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. >>> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? >>> How does that work? >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Ian, >>> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from >>> subConn >>> that makes them. >>> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a >>> securing >>> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >>> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it >>> would just >>> be an opportunity for corrosion. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Rick, >>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing >>> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been >>> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look >>> stuff up. >>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight >>> bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, >>> this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the >>> connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it >>> again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and >>> construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet >>> mate" connectors: >>> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my >>> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its >>> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull >>> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring >>> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber >>> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the >>> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets >>> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a >>> pretty picture: >>> >>> >>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that >>> goes through the bulkhead. >>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 >>> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was >>> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical >>> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing >>> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through >>> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no >>> splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This >>> further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak >>> point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself >>> was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel >>> 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block >>> and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the >>> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you >>> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction >>> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that >>> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water >>> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to >>> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated >>> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically >>> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The >>> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring >>> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken >>> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube >>> probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical >>> locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the >>> greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside >>> to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and >>> rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those >>> connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a >>> connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make >>> my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those >>> reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, >>> including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can >>> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your >>> electrical current needs. >>> >>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, >>> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace >>> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins >>> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance >>> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the >>> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >>> Hope that helps, >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 19:19:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 23:19:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <11b88ed9-820d-a7a4-8049-c8b85d1421df@psubs.org> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> <489395003.539894.1592580190326@mail.yahoo.com> <11b88ed9-820d-a7a4-8049-c8b85d1421df@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1791050090.705195.1592608799879@mail.yahoo.com> How far out of date? I wonder if they would recertify.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 6:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity No, sorry, its Lloyds??? On 6/19/2020 11:23 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wait, back up. The 600 has ABS certs? Vance _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 23:53:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 20:53:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: <20200619205339.3B9D07F3@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jun 19 09:48:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 03:48:26 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: <20200619205339.3B9D07F3@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20200619205339.3B9D07F3@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian Not sure to tell you the truth. I may be calling it the wrong thing. The Blue Globe fittings that others have mentioned is what I want and I have a call out to the Vendor that carries that German fitting to see if I can get it in a 3/8" NPT for the rating that I want. Also reaching out to Contaclip as Sean and some others have mentioned. I was going to do a test today on the SealCon fittings that I bought a few years ago that have a 10 bar rating to see at what pressure they extrude but wasn't able to. Hopefully tomorrow. I'll let ya know the results. Rick On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 5:55 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, Isn't there a difference between strain relief and just a > straight compression fitting ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 03:20:56 -1000 > > Brian > sorry I didn't answer sooner as been crazy. I will be passing a > depth sounder wire, a UTC underwater comms transducer wire, a VHF > radio antenna cable and LED lights which is about 5/16" diameter with 4 > insulated wires inside of it. > > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:41 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, What are you trying to run through there? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 06:50:04 -1000 > > Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain relief fittings > and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't work. they said that > they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable on the pressure side > to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them and do some testing to > see if this will be an option or not. > jRick > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Ian, > > https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ > I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the > facilitator / owner > of the group a long time ago. > He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. > There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. > He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! > Cheers Alan > > On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? How > does that work? > > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Ian, > I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from > subConn > that makes them. > Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a > securing > device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). > I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it > would just > be an opportunity for corrosion. > Alan > > > > On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing > through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been > able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look > stuff up. > When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight > bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, > this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the > connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it > again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and > construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet > mate" connectors: > http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ > I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my ROV > project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its > depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull > connectors, and they will be similar to this design. > The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring > (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber > connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the > bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets > compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a > pretty picture: > > > I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes > through the bulkhead. > The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 > feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was > the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical > connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing > through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through > connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. > The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no > splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This > further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak > point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself > was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel > 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. > The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and > the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the > inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you > pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction > of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that > travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water > through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to > right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated > for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically > (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The > biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring > seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken > hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). > I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube > probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical > locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the > greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside > to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and > rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those > connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a > connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make > my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those > reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, > including right to the bottom of the brass tube. > The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can > make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your > electrical current needs. > > These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, but > I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace > water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins > had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance > the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the > electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. > Hope that helps, > Ian > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and > only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most > of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue > Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > Thanks > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 01:05:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 01:05:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1791050090.705195.1592608799879@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> <489395003.539894.1592580190326@mail.yahoo.com> <11b88ed9-820d-a7a4-8049-c8b85d1421df@psubs.org> <1791050090.705195.1592608799879@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9b195413-3bca-0732-2a72-5ecda4574cd3@psubs.org> Only 41 years.? I'm sure they'll just rubber stamp it.? :) :) On 6/19/2020 7:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > How far out of date? I wonder if they would recertify. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 6:51 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > > > No, sorry, its Lloyds > > > On 6/19/2020 11:23 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Wait, back up. The 600 has ABS certs? > Vance > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 08:31:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 08:31:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <20200619205339.3B9D07F3@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Rick, in my experience, in industry, when people say strain relief they're usually talking about an extra physical component to the fitting which strengthens the cable from bring physically pulled/stressed. Normally this component is not associated with the pressure sealing capability of the fitting. Using that term when talking to the vendors might be confusing. On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:29 AM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian > > Not sure to tell you the truth. I may be calling it the wrong thing. The > Blue Globe fittings that others have mentioned is what I want and I have a > call out to the Vendor that carries that German fitting to see if I can get > it in a 3/8" NPT for the rating that I want. Also reaching out to Contaclip > as Sean and some others have mentioned. I was going to do a test today on > the SealCon fittings that I bought a few years ago that have a 10 bar > rating to see at what pressure they extrude but wasn't able to. > Hopefully tomorrow. I'll let ya know the results. > Rick > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 5:55 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, Isn't there a difference between strain relief and just a >> straight compression fitting ? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings >> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 03:20:56 -1000 >> >> Brian >> sorry I didn't answer sooner as been crazy. I will be passing a >> depth sounder wire, a UTC underwater comms transducer wire, a VHF >> radio antenna cable and LED lights which is about 5/16" diameter with 4 >> insulated wires inside of it. >> >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:41 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Rick, What are you trying to run through there? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings >> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 06:50:04 -1000 >> >> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain relief fittings >> and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't work. they said that >> they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable on the pressure side >> to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them and do some testing to >> see if this will be an option or not. >> jRick >> >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Ian, >> >> https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ >> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the >> facilitator / owner >> of the group a long time ago. >> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. >> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. >> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! >> Cheers Alan >> >> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? >> How does that work? >> >> Ian >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Ian, >> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from >> subConn >> that makes them. >> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a >> securing >> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it >> would just >> be an opportunity for corrosion. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Rick, >> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing >> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been >> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look >> stuff up. >> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight >> bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, >> this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the >> connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it >> again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and >> construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet >> mate" connectors: >> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my >> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its >> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull >> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring >> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber >> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the >> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets >> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a >> pretty picture: >> >> >> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that goes >> through the bulkhead. >> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 >> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was >> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical >> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing >> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through >> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no >> splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This >> further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak >> point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself >> was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel >> 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block and >> the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the >> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you >> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction >> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that >> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water >> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to >> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated >> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically >> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The >> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring >> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken >> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube >> probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical >> locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the >> greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside >> to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and >> rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those >> connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a >> connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make >> my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those >> reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, >> including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can >> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your >> electrical current needs. >> >> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, >> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace >> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins >> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance >> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the >> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >> Hope that helps, >> Ian >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >> Thanks >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 09:43:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 13:43:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <9b195413-3bca-0732-2a72-5ecda4574cd3@psubs.org> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <13749ac6-f7cf-328d-6326-efae204cd2a3@psubs.org> <1683527982.556652.1592573847923@mail.yahoo.com> <489395003.539894.1592580190326@mail.yahoo.com> <11b88ed9-820d-a7a4-8049-c8b85d1421df@psubs.org> <1791050090.705195.1592608799879@mail.yahoo.com> <9b195413-3bca-0732-2a72-5ecda4574cd3@psubs.org> Message-ID: <602064273.808965.1592660597369@mail.yahoo.com> They took on a P6 certification because all the test data was available. If that pile you have is as complete, they might just do yours, as well. It ain't cheap, mind you.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 1:05 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Only 41 years.? I'm sure they'll just rubber stamp it.? :) :) On 6/19/2020 7:19 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: How far out of date? I wonder if they would recertify. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 6:51 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity No, sorry, its Lloyds??? On 6/19/2020 11:23 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wait, back up. The 600 has ABS certs? Vance _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 10:31:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:31:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, have you research the Conax PG series? I am using PG5-500-A-N to pass a 2 wire jacketed cable from my rear thruster through the hull. They offer a pretty good variety in this series. On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain relief fittings > and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't work. they said that > they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable on the pressure side > to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them and do some testing to > see if this will be an option or not. > jRick > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Ian, >> >> https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ >> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the >> facilitator / owner >> of the group a long time ago. >> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. >> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. >> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! >> Cheers Alan >> >> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? >> How does that work? >> >> Ian >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Ian, >>> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from >>> subConn >>> that makes them. >>> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a >>> securing >>> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >>> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it >>> would just >>> be an opportunity for corrosion. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Rick, >>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing >>> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been >>> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look >>> stuff up. >>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight >>> bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, >>> this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the >>> connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it >>> again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and >>> construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet >>> mate" connectors: >>> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my >>> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its >>> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull >>> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring >>> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber >>> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the >>> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets >>> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a >>> pretty picture: >>> >>> >>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that >>> goes through the bulkhead. >>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 >>> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was >>> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical >>> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing >>> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through >>> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no >>> splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This >>> further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak >>> point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself >>> was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel >>> 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block >>> and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the >>> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you >>> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction >>> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that >>> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water >>> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to >>> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated >>> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically >>> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The >>> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring >>> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken >>> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass tube >>> probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good mechanical >>> locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make the >>> greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from outside >>> to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between brass and >>> rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of those >>> connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for destroying a >>> connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when I go to make >>> my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, for those >>> reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled everything, >>> including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can >>> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your >>> electrical current needs. >>> >>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, >>> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace >>> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins >>> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance >>> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the >>> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >>> Hope that helps, >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>>> Thanks >>>> Rick >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 10:40:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:40:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's K600 In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For reference, I paid (4 yrs ago) $700 to have my K250 blasted to SP10 1-2.5 Mil Profile. $1300 to paint interior 1 color, exterior another. They did a nice job. They charged me $425 for the initial rough blasting to take off all the paint & primer so I could inspect the hall when I first got it. I'm sure the local prices have gone up over the past couple of years but if you're desperate I'll meet you halfway and we can bring your sub to Indy and get it done! On Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 9:42 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Steve, > > Unfortunately I don't have much to report. The sub is stripped and > waiting for a complete sandblasting and repainting. I thought I had the > sandblasting all set to go last year but those plans fell through and I > am in search of another sandblaster in my area that can handle the > work. I suspect however that I will have to travel with the sub to a > larger locality that has more service options. I would be tempted to > hire one of those "water sandblasters" that come to your location, but I > have no way to lift the submarine so the bottom can be done. I suppose > I could rebuild my gantry crane to accomplish that but I was only able > to lift it about three feet off the ground and I'm not sure that's > enough room for them. > > I had hoped to have my electronic environment software working by this > time however parts are just starting to come in now after so many > suppliers shut down due to Covid-19. I do have my circuit boards > however and have started soldering the various modules onto it. > > Jon > > > > > On 6/18/2020 12:30 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Changing the thread. > > > > Jon, give us an update on the 600 ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 13:55:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 07:55:47 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have them down to call with that number on Monday. Thanks Rick On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 4:32 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, have you research the Conax PG series? I am using PG5-500-A-N to > pass a 2 wire jacketed cable from my rear thruster through the hull. They > offer a pretty good variety in this series. > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain relief fittings >> and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't work. they said that >> they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable on the pressure side >> to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them and do some testing to >> see if this will be an option or not. >> jRick >> >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Ian, >>> >>> https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ >>> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the >>> facilitator / owner >>> of the group a long time ago. >>> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. >>> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. >>> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? >>> How does that work? >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Ian, >>>> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from >>>> subConn >>>> that makes them. >>>> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a >>>> securing >>>> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >>>> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that it >>>> would just >>>> be an opportunity for corrosion. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Rick, >>>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing >>>> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been >>>> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look >>>> stuff up. >>>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a watertight >>>> bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. Unfortunately, >>>> this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who actually ordered the >>>> connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and hopefully find it >>>> again because I remember quite well what it looked like, its design and >>>> construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne Marine's "Wet >>>> mate" connectors: >>>> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >>>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my >>>> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its >>>> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull >>>> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >>>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring >>>> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber >>>> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the >>>> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets >>>> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a >>>> pretty picture: >>>> >>>> >>>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that >>>> goes through the bulkhead. >>>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 >>>> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was >>>> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical >>>> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing >>>> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through >>>> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >>>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was no >>>> splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. This >>>> further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible leak >>>> point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which itself >>>> was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to travel >>>> 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >>>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block >>>> and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the >>>> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you >>>> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction >>>> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that >>>> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water >>>> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to >>>> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated >>>> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically >>>> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The >>>> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring >>>> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken >>>> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >>>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass >>>> tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good >>>> mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make >>>> the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from >>>> outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between >>>> brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of >>>> those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for >>>> destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when >>>> I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, >>>> for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled >>>> everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >>>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can >>>> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your >>>> electrical current needs. >>>> >>>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, >>>> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace >>>> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins >>>> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance >>>> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the >>>> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >>>> Hope that helps, >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings and >>>>> only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know most >>>>> of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is Blue >>>>> Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Rick >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 14:20:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:20:19 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings In-Reply-To: References: <49F3FF79-C1FA-4E89-961B-FB331A9F7365@yahoo.com> Message-ID: They have a pretty good online catalog that list all the specifications. On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:56 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have them down to call with that number on Monday. > Thanks > Rick > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 4:32 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, have you research the Conax PG series? I am using PG5-500-A-N to >> pass a 2 wire jacketed cable from my rear thruster through the hull. They >> offer a pretty good variety in this series. >> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain >>> relief fittings and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't >>> work. they said that they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable >>> on the pressure side to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them >>> and do some testing to see if this will be an option or not. >>> jRick >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Ian, >>>> >>>> https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ >>>> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the >>>> facilitator / owner >>>> of the group a long time ago. >>>> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. >>>> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. >>>> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? >>>> How does that work? >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Ian, >>>>> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from >>>>> subConn >>>>> that makes them. >>>>> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a >>>>> securing >>>>> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >>>>> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that >>>>> it would just >>>>> be an opportunity for corrosion. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing >>>>> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been >>>>> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look >>>>> stuff up. >>>>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a >>>>> watertight bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. >>>>> Unfortunately, this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who >>>>> actually ordered the connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and >>>>> hopefully find it again because I remember quite well what it looked like, >>>>> its design and construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne >>>>> Marine's "Wet mate" connectors: >>>>> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >>>>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my >>>>> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its >>>>> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull >>>>> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >>>>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring >>>>> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber >>>>> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the >>>>> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets >>>>> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a >>>>> pretty picture: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that >>>>> goes through the bulkhead. >>>>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 >>>>> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was >>>>> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical >>>>> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing >>>>> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through >>>>> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >>>>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was >>>>> no splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. >>>>> This further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible >>>>> leak point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which >>>>> itself was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to >>>>> travel 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >>>>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block >>>>> and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the >>>>> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you >>>>> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction >>>>> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that >>>>> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water >>>>> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to >>>>> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated >>>>> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically >>>>> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The >>>>> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring >>>>> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken >>>>> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >>>>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass >>>>> tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good >>>>> mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make >>>>> the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from >>>>> outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between >>>>> brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of >>>>> those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for >>>>> destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D Just, when >>>>> I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, >>>>> for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled >>>>> everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >>>>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can >>>>> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your >>>>> electrical current needs. >>>>> >>>>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, >>>>> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace >>>>> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins >>>>> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance >>>>> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the >>>>> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>> Ian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings >>>>>> and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know >>>>>> most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is >>>>>> Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 14:47:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:47:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. An outline: 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by KITTREDGE". Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.? Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.? According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale ultimately failed. 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears this never developed into a contract or production. About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built. As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. Jon On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners > were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the > North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and > support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about > winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, > what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil > companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and > insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring > the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be > junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and > is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see > it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. > Vance > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 14:58:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:58:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Jon's K600 In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02f7a60f-fa50-fa98-0818-8bcd3b659f30@psubs.org> That sounds about right Steve.? The guy I had tagged to do it last summer quoted me $800 for sandblasting.? He was not set up to paint so I was going to use the SMYTH method and roller the paint on myself.? Thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind.? I'm sure that I should be able to find a sandblasting service in the surrounding Boston MA area, but who knows.? Interestingly, a sandblasting and machining business just opened two miles down the roard, but it looks like they are set up for parts, not a large block of metal like a submarine. Still, I'm going to stop in and inquire. Jon On 6/20/2020 10:40 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > For reference, I paid (4 yrs ago) $700 to have my K250 blasted to SP10 > 1-2.5 Mil Profile. $1300 to paint interior 1 color, exterior another. > They did a nice job. They charged me $425 for the initial rough > blasting to take off all the paint & primer so I could inspect the > hall when I first got it. > I'm sure the local prices have gone up over the past couple of years > but if you're desperate I'll meet you halfway and we can bring your > sub to Indy and get it done! > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 15:29:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 09:29:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Neat history Jon, thanks for sharing! Rick On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 8:48 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Vance, your memory is excellent. I opened up the documentation last night > and started going through it again. I need to put a timeline together > since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said > earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship > and in the end everything just fell apart. I've got some interesting > pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a > few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted > by a crane. I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the > project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in > the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in > the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. > > An outline: > 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented > by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for > "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of > six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such > other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE. > This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the > current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by > KITTREDGE". > > Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time > with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual > capacities. The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after > incorporation. Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) > and he did not receive the balance until December 1980. Kittredge wanted > certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now > DNV-GL). However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given > some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett. According to those > letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party > had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to > properly certify the vessel. At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo > Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from > Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a > submarine. This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't > seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. > > 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the > K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA. It looks to me like > this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with > Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, > and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland. According to the > contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three > years. Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each > submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and > maintenance manuals. SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each > submarine. Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't > surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval > by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no > modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without > the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract > created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I > do not have a signed copy of the contract. And since no additional K-600's > were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the > contract or never gave approval for a license. I suspect the former simply > because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had > not received the balance payment for the vessel. My guess is he wasn't > going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 > but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. > > 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. > > 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for > the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in > operation. The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches > the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine. The men tell Kittredge > they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave > confident that the transaction will proceed. Obviously it doesn't, however > there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale > ultimately failed. > > 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance > and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from > Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB > SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached > an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which > Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe. It appears this never > developed into a contract or production. > > About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention > was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original > 1976 contract. Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from > the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement. I > have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed > copy of it. In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett > informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other > owners over misplaced funds. It's at this point I assume the company > eventually failed. Whether because of the release agreement or the failure > of the company, no other K-600's were built. > > As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential > K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own. Kittredge > responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. > > Jon > > > On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were > dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North > Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They > could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 > meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was > that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people > in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck > of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was > going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It > was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to > see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. > Vance > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jun 20 15:44:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 19:44:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I can.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in the history.? I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. An outline: 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by KITTREDGE". Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.? Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.? According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing of KITTREDGE".? Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale ultimately failed. 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready.? At the same time, SUB SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears this never developed into a contract or production. About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built. As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. Jon On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. Vance _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 21 00:52:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 21:52:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jon, Do you have copies of the operations and maintenance manuals prepared for the K-600? Those would be an interesting read. Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:47 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: cable fittings (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: publicity (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:20:19 -0400 > From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings > Message-ID: > vLuw_1bBZa7fmo+4e8n-992xzdE4beGXDPvbf1wfQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > They have a pretty good online catalog that list all the specifications. > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:56 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I have them down to call with that number on Monday. > > Thanks > > Rick > > > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 4:32 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > >> Rick, have you research the Conax PG series? I am using PG5-500-A-N to > >> pass a 2 wire jacketed cable from my rear thruster through the hull. > They > >> offer a pretty good variety in this series. > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain > >>> relief fittings and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't > >>> work. they said that they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the > cable > >>> on the pressure side to keep it from extruding so I might but one of > them > >>> and do some testing to see if this will be an option or not. > >>> jRick > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Ian, > >>>> > >>>> > https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ > >>>> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the > >>>> facilitator / owner > >>>> of the group a long time ago. > >>>> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. > >>>> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. > >>>> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! > >>>> Cheers Alan > >>>> > >>>> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> :O That's them! Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? > >>>> How does that work? > >>>> > >>>> Ian > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Thanks Ian, > >>>>> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from > >>>>> subConn > >>>>> that makes them. > >>>>> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have > a > >>>>> securing > >>>>> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). > >>>>> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that > >>>>> it would just > >>>>> be an opportunity for corrosion. > >>>>> Alan > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Rick, > >>>>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing > >>>>> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't > been > >>>>> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and > look > >>>>> stuff up. > >>>>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a > >>>>> watertight bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. > >>>>> Unfortunately, this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who > >>>>> actually ordered the connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to > try and > >>>>> hopefully find it again because I remember quite well what it looked > like, > >>>>> its design and construction. The closest thing I could find was > Teledyne > >>>>> Marine's "Wet mate" connectors: > >>>>> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ > >>>>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For > my > >>>>> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep > increasing its > >>>>> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull > >>>>> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. > >>>>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring > >>>>> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber > >>>>> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through > the > >>>>> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets > >>>>> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew > a > >>>>> pretty picture: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that > >>>>> goes through the bulkhead. > >>>>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 > >>>>> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, > it was > >>>>> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical > >>>>> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections > passing > >>>>> through that? We could get the identical connector as a > straight-through > >>>>> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. > >>>>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was > >>>>> no splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or > pins. > >>>>> This further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a > possible > >>>>> leak point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket > which > >>>>> itself was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would > have to > >>>>> travel 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. > >>>>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block > >>>>> and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick > along the > >>>>> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or > if you > >>>>> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the > junction > >>>>> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer > that > >>>>> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force > water > >>>>> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches > left to > >>>>> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it > was rated > >>>>> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. > Mechanically > >>>>> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The > >>>>> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the > o-ring > >>>>> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken > >>>>> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). > >>>>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass > >>>>> tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good > >>>>> mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and > to make > >>>>> the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around > from > >>>>> outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction > between > >>>>> brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one > of > >>>>> those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for > >>>>> destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know. :D > Just, when > >>>>> I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube > like that, > >>>>> for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled > >>>>> everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube. > >>>>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you > can > >>>>> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to > match your > >>>>> electrical current needs. > >>>>> > >>>>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged > underwater, > >>>>> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to > displace > >>>>> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the > male pins > >>>>> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the > distance > >>>>> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus > maximizing the > >>>>> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. > >>>>> Hope that helps, > >>>>> Ian > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles < > >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings > >>>>>> and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as > I know > >>>>>> most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy > them, is > >>>>>> Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> Rick > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20200620/f7f775ee/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:47:17 -0400 > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > > Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last > night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline > together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but > as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business > relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some > interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original > negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) > of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600 > archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure > anyone else is really interested in the history. I wonder how your > memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are > any details you might be able to fill in. > > An outline: > 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented > by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for > "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of > six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or > such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by > KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and > shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are > approved by KITTREDGE". > > Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time > with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual > capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after > incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 > today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.? > Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det > Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been > difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and > Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to > approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had > enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At > one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with > Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having > to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they > ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically > addressing the change to Lloyds. > > 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of > the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to > me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner > with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, > market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.? > According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels > per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the > construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for > writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE > was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if > you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each > manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on > a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of > the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing > of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in > response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed > copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever > produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the > contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former > simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he > still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is > he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the > existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. > > 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. > > 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for > the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in > operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge > launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men > tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 > and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it > doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented > or why the sale ultimately failed. > > 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance > and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery > from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB > SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and > reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic > hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears > this never developed into a contract or production. > > About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their > intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in > their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to > release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from > the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, > not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal > strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against > some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I > assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release > agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built. > > As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential > K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge > responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. > > Jon > > > > On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners > > were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the > > North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and > > support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about > > winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, > > what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil > > companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and > > insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring > > the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be > > junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and > > is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see > > it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. > > Vance > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20200620/596311a4/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 84, Issue 52 > ***************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jun 21 08:41:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 12:41:49 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thanks Jon - FB moderation Message-ID: Jon, Thanks for adding a few more people to the FB page for moderation. We can expand out into areas with younger enthusiasts a little quicker by letting them see what we're about. The plus side for FB is it's easier to post pics and videos of our projects. I think the likely negative is the lack of a lasting archive like with this server. I know several times I've done Google searches as "PSubs plus topic" and old useful threads pop up. Hmm ... don't want to just open up either or we'd be overrun by spambots. Fascinating how more subs are coming online lately - maybe a resurgence because of the commercial builders like Triton? Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 22 06:35:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:35:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thanks Jon - FB moderation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <961902121.1706018.1592822136121@mail.yahoo.com> FB has it's benefits and complements our website/mailing list.? I agree photos and videos (along with youtube) are a snap to upload and why not let their servers take the load instead of ours.? However I agree there is an inherent "archival" weakness with FB and after a year or two it can be very difficult to search out specific items.? Additionally, we tend to add photos to social media spontaneously in the moment.? Over time, a projects documentation becomes scattered within hundreds of other posts and time consuming to search out and collect.? This is why I encourage everyone working on a project to create a project page on SUBDB.INFO so there is one central location that you can point people to for your entire project.? Additionally, with proper documentation (operation, maintenance, emergency manuals) it becomes a repository for responders to understand what type of vessel they are dealing with in the event of an emergency. Jon On Sunday, June 21, 2020, 08:43:49 AM EDT, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, Thanks for adding a few more people to the FB page for moderation. We can expand out into areas with younger enthusiasts a little quicker by letting them see what we're about. ?The plus side for FB is it's easier to post pics and videos of our projects.? I think the likely negative is the lack of a lasting archive like with this server. I know several times I've done Google searches as "PSubs plus topic" and old useful threads pop up. Hmm ... don't want to just open up either or we'd be overrun by spambots. Fascinating how more subs are coming online lately - maybe a resurgence because of the commercial builders like Triton??? Brian Get Outlook for Android_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 22 06:36:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:36:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93893813.1711181.1592822180836@mail.yahoo.com> I do, I will have to dig them. Jon On Sunday, June 21, 2020, 12:54:29 AM EDT, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,Do you have copies of the operations and maintenance manuals prepared for the K-600? Those would be an interesting read. Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:47 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ? ? ? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? ?1. Re: cable fittings (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) ? ?2. Re: publicity (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:20:19 -0400 From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cable fittings Message-ID: ? ? ? ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" They have a pretty good online catalog that list all the specifications. On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:56 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have them down to call with that number on Monday. > Thanks > Rick > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 4:32 AM Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, have you research the Conax PG series? I am using PG5-500-A-N to >> pass a 2 wire jacketed cable from my rear thruster through the hull. They >> offer a pretty good variety in this series. >> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:28 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Just called Sealcon to confirm how they rate their strain >>> relief fittings and they base it on line pull so the ones I have won't >>> work. they said that they also sell a cable clip that attaches to the cable >>> on the pressure side to keep it from extruding so I might but one of them >>> and do some testing to see if this will be an option or not. >>> jRick >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:00 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Ian, >>>> >>>> https://www.macartney.com/what-we-offer/systems-and-products/connectors/subconn/ >>>> I'm not sure how you get Psub discount. I got some through Jon the >>>> facilitator / owner >>>> of the group a long time ago. >>>> He normally reads the emails & will comment if you have a question. >>>> There may be an email link to Jon, or more info on the Psub web site. >>>> He's based in NY, so just a submarine ride away! >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> On 10/06/2020, at 1:07 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> :O? That's them!? Subcon eh? I'll look them up. Psubs gets a discount? >>>> How does that work? >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:46 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Ian, >>>>> I have those type of penetrators (below). Psubs gets a discount from >>>>> subConn >>>>> that makes them. >>>>> Would be a bit difficult making them yourself & the bought ones have a >>>>> securing >>>>> device so they can't pull apart ( orange thing in photo). >>>>> I agree that there wouldn't be much call for wet mating them, & that >>>>> it would just >>>>> be an opportunity for corrosion. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/06/2020, at 5:43 AM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>> I saw your post and wanted to ask if you meant electrical or plumbing >>>>> through hull connections. So I'm glad you reposted because I haven't been >>>>> able to follow the thread, nor have I had the time to go back and look >>>>> stuff up. >>>>> When I was working R&D on our diver heater system, we used a >>>>> watertight bulkhead connector for the shot line and remote control. >>>>> Unfortunately, this was over 20 years ago and I was not the one who >>>>> actually ordered the connector. So I innernets'd some pictures to try and >>>>> hopefully find it again because I remember quite well what it looked like, >>>>> its design and construction. The closest thing I could find was Teledyne >>>>> Marine's "Wet mate" connectors: >>>>> http://www.teledynemarine.com/electrical-wet-mate-connectors/ >>>>> I couldn't tell you the price, but I'm sure they weren't cheap. For my >>>>> ROV project, I'm still in the rough design phase and I keep increasing its >>>>> depth capabilities. So I'm just going to make my own through-hull >>>>> connectors, and they will be similar to this design. >>>>> The through-hull seal is accomplished by a simple and reliable o-ring >>>>> (which doesn't appear in teledyne's picture). Basically, the rubber >>>>> connector body is mounted to a brass threaded tube that goes through the >>>>> bulkhead. The brass threaded tube has a seat for an o-ring which gets >>>>> compressed by both the nut and external water pressure. Here, I drew a >>>>> pretty picture: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I just realized I didn't mark the brass tube, but it's the part that >>>>> goes through the bulkhead. >>>>> The particular connector we were using only needed to go to like, 300 >>>>> feet. I believe we tested the heater unit to 300 psi and ironically, it was >>>>> the swagelock fittings inside the unit that leaked - that electrical >>>>> connector never leaked. We had I think 8 electrical connections passing >>>>> through that? We could get the identical connector as a straight-through >>>>> connector, and not an angled connector like my drawing. >>>>> The pins and sockets were the solid style - in other words there was >>>>> no splits to allow for expansion or contraction of the sockets or pins. >>>>> This further added to the waterproof nature as now the wire (a possible >>>>> leak point) was buried in solid rubber, behind a solid metal socket which >>>>> itself was buried in solid rubber. Any water wicking along would have to >>>>> travel 1/2" along the metal/rubber just to get past the socket. >>>>> The connector body was a hard rubber, both the through-bulkhead block >>>>> and the male connector. Under high pressures, the water can wick along the >>>>> inside of the wires (between the copper and the outer insulation) or if you >>>>> pass the wire through say, silicone rubber, it can wick along the junction >>>>> of the outside of the wire and the encasing rubber. So the longer that >>>>> travel distance is, the higher the pressure needs to be to force water >>>>> through those avenues. That rubber block was only maybe 2 inches left to >>>>> right in my drawing. I don't remember what pressures or depths it was rated >>>>> for, but I guarantee you it could take a LOT of pressure. Mechanically >>>>> (because the bulkhead hole was small) and in keeping watertight. The >>>>> biggest risk for a leak was if the bulkhead got a scratch where the o-ring >>>>> seated against it. I have no doubt that connector could have taken >>>>> hydraulic pressures (thousands of PSI). >>>>> I did not draw this in my pretty picture, but the head of the brass >>>>> tube probably had multiple rings inside the rubber, both to get good >>>>> mechanical locking between the rubber body and the brass body, and to make >>>>> the greatest distance the water would have to travel to get around from >>>>> outside to inside the tube, if it were to wick along the junction between >>>>> brass and rubber. But I'm speculating there because I didn't cut one of >>>>> those connector$ open to find out. Lest I get fired and stuff for >>>>> destroying a connector worth hundreds of dollars, you know.? :D Just, when >>>>> I go to make my own connectors, I'll be making the mounting tube like that, >>>>> for those reasons. The rubber that made up the connector body filled >>>>> everything, including right to the bottom of the brass tube. >>>>> The nice thing about making your own connector as well is that you can >>>>> make the electrical pins, sockets and wires any size you want to match your >>>>> electrical current needs. >>>>> >>>>> These particular connectors could be plugged and unplugged underwater, >>>>> but I suspect it would be very difficult to do as it would have to displace >>>>> water or vacuum from the connector holes. But as you can see, the male pins >>>>> had insulating rubber for a part of their length to maximize the distance >>>>> the electricity would have to travel from pin to pin, thus maximizing the >>>>> electrical resistance from pin to pin as well. >>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>> Ian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I posted the other day about cable threw hull water tight fittings >>>>>> and only got one response back and was hoping for more feed back as I know >>>>>> most of you probably don't make your own so for the ones that buy them, is >>>>>> Blue Globe the only player out there besides sealcon? >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 14:47:17 -0400 From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. An outline: 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by KITTREDGE". Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.? Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.? According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale ultimately failed. 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears this never developed into a contract or production. About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built. As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. Jon On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners > were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the > North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and > support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about > winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, > what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil > companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and > insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring > the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be > junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and > is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see > it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. > Vance > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 84, Issue 52 ***************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 22 12:05:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 09:05:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thanks Jon - FB moderation In-Reply-To: <961902121.1706018.1592822136121@mail.yahoo.com> References: <961902121.1706018.1592822136121@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jon, I've never seen the SUBDB site before. It's quite the database. It's been awhile since I've also added any photo updates on the psub site. Can you send me the registration code for the SeaQuestor and I will upload the progress build images. SeaQuestor at gmail.com Thanks David. On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 3:36 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > FB has it's benefits and complements our website/mailing list. I agree > photos and videos (along with youtube) are a snap to upload and why not let > their servers take the load instead of ours. However I agree there is an > inherent "archival" weakness with FB and after a year or two it can be very > difficult to search out specific items. Additionally, we tend to add > photos to social media spontaneously in the moment. Over time, a projects > documentation becomes scattered within hundreds of other posts and time > consuming to search out and collect. This is why I encourage everyone > working on a project to create a project page on SUBDB.INFO so there is > one central location that you can point people to for your entire project. > Additionally, with proper documentation (operation, maintenance, emergency > manuals) it becomes a repository for responders to understand what type of > vessel they are dealing with in the event of an emergency. > > Jon > > > On Sunday, June 21, 2020, 08:43:49 AM EDT, Brian Hughes via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, > > Thanks for adding a few more people to the FB page for moderation. We can > expand out into areas with younger enthusiasts a little quicker by letting > them see what we're about. > > The plus side for FB is it's easier to post pics and videos of our > projects. I think the likely negative is the lack of a lasting archive > like with this server. I know several times I've done Google searches as > "PSubs plus topic" and old useful threads pop up. Hmm ... don't want to > just open up either or we'd be overrun by spambots. Fascinating how more > subs are coming online lately - maybe a resurgence because of the > commercial builders like Triton? > > Brian > > Get Outlook for Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 22 06:49:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 00:49:52 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor. PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to find it? Rick On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's > part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I > can. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > > > Vance, your memory is excellent. I opened up the documentation last night > and started going through it again. I need to put a timeline together > since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said > earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship > and in the end everything just fell apart. I've got some interesting > pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a > few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted > by a crane. I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the > project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in > the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in > the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. > > An outline: > 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented > by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for > "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of > six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such > other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE. > This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the > current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by > KITTREDGE". > > Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time > with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual > capacities. The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after > incorporation. Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) > and he did not receive the balance until December 1980. Kittredge wanted > certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now > DNV-GL). However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given > some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett. According to those > letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party > had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to > properly certify the vessel. At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo > Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from > Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a > submarine. This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't > seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. > > 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the > K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA. It looks to me like > this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with > Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, > and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland. According to the > contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three > years. Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each > submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and > maintenance manuals. SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each > submarine. Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't > surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval > by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no > modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without > the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract > created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I > do not have a signed copy of the contract. And since no additional K-600's > were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the > contract or never gave approval for a license. I suspect the former simply > because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had > not received the balance payment for the vessel. My guess is he wasn't > going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 > but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. > > 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. > > 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for > the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in > operation. The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches > the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine. The men tell Kittredge > they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave > confident that the transaction will proceed. Obviously it doesn't, however > there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale > ultimately failed. > 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance > and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from > Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB > SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached > an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which > Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe. It appears this never > developed into a contract or production. > About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention > was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original > 1976 contract. Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from > the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement. I > have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed > copy of it. In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett > informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other > owners over misplaced funds. It's at this point I assume the company > eventually failed. Whether because of the release agreement or the failure > of the company, no other K-600's were built. > As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential > K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own. Kittredge > responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. > Jon > > > On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were > dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North > Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They > could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 > meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was > that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people > in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck > of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was > going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It > was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to > see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. > Vance > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 22 14:15:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 18:15:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> facebook.com/groups/PSUBS On Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:51:30 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor.?PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to find it? Rick On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I can.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in the history.? I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. An outline: 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by KITTREDGE". Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.? Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.? According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing of KITTREDGE".? Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale ultimately failed. 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready.? At the same time, SUB SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears this never developed into a contract or production. About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built. As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. Jon On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. Vance _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 22 06:13:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 00:13:42 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mahalo! Rick On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:16 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > facebook.com/groups/PSUBS > > > On Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:51:30 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to > 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at > all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor. > PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the > Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to > find it? > Rick > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's > part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I > can. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > > > Vance, your memory is excellent. I opened up the documentation last night > and started going through it again. I need to put a timeline together > since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said > earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship > and in the end everything just fell apart. I've got some interesting > pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a > few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted > by a crane. I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the > project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in > the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in > the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. > > An outline: > 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented > by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for > "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of > six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such > other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE. > This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the > current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by > KITTREDGE". > > Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time > with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual > capacities. The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after > incorporation. Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) > and he did not receive the balance until December 1980. Kittredge wanted > certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now > DNV-GL). However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given > some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett. According to those > letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party > had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to > properly certify the vessel. At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo > Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from > Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a > submarine. This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't > seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. > > 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the > K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA. It looks to me like > this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with > Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, > and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland. According to the > contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three > years. Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each > submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and > maintenance manuals. SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each > submarine. Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't > surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval > by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no > modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without > the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract > created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I > do not have a signed copy of the contract. And since no additional K-600's > were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the > contract or never gave approval for a license. I suspect the former simply > because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had > not received the balance payment for the vessel. My guess is he wasn't > going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 > but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. > > 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. > > 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for > the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in > operation. The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches > the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine. The men tell Kittredge > they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave > confident that the transaction will proceed. Obviously it doesn't, however > there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale > ultimately failed. > 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance > and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from > Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB > SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached > an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which > Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe. It appears this never > developed into a contract or production. > About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention > was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original > 1976 contract. Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from > the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement. I > have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed > copy of it. In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett > informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other > owners over misplaced funds. It's at this point I assume the company > eventually failed. Whether because of the release agreement or the failure > of the company, no other K-600's were built. > As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential > K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own. Kittredge > responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. > Jon > > > On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were > dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North > Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They > could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 > meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was > that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people > in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck > of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was > going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It > was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to > see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. > Vance > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jun 29 22:02:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 16:02:45 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well guy's I did the taping segment with Jeff Foxworthy last Friday and he showed a lot of interest in the sub even though the show was suspose to be about getting an old Navy hard hat appraised. We talked for about a half an hour and he asked me if I could undo the camera and give him a tour of the sub which I did. I was able to mention the group and the name of the web site but they are going to edit it down to a 5 minute segment so who knows if it will make it or not. It will air in August so I'll let you guy's know when I know. He told me that he wanted to let him know when it was done so he could take a ride in it but I think he was probably only saying that for the audience and a laugh but who knows. I would love to take him for a ride but don't want to subject myself to all the liability. Rick On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:13 AM Rick Patton wrote: > Mahalo! > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:16 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> facebook.com/groups/PSUBS >> >> >> On Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:51:30 PM EDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to >> 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at >> all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor. >> PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the >> Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to >> find it? >> Rick >> >> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's >> part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I >> can. >> Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity >> >> >> Vance, your memory is excellent. I opened up the documentation last >> night and started going through it again. I need to put a timeline >> together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as >> I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business >> relationship and in the end everything just fell apart. I've got some >> interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original >> negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of >> the K600 being hoisted by a crane. I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to >> memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is >> really interested in the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to >> what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be >> able to fill in. >> >> An outline: >> 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented >> by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for >> "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of >> six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such >> other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE. >> This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the >> current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by >> KITTREDGE". >> >> Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time >> with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual >> capacities. The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after >> incorporation. Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) >> and he did not receive the balance until December 1980. Kittredge wanted >> certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now >> DNV-GL). However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given >> some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett. According to those >> letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party >> had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to >> properly certify the vessel. At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo >> Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from >> Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a >> submarine. This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't >> seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. >> >> 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the >> K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA. It looks to me like >> this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with >> Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, >> and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland. According to the >> contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three >> years. Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each >> submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and >> maintenance manuals. SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each >> submarine. Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't >> surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval >> by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no >> modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without >> the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract >> created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I >> do not have a signed copy of the contract. And since no additional K-600's >> were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the >> contract or never gave approval for a license. I suspect the former simply >> because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had >> not received the balance payment for the vessel. My guess is he wasn't >> going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 >> but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. >> >> 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. >> >> 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for >> the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in >> operation. The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches >> the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine. The men tell Kittredge >> they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave >> confident that the transaction will proceed. Obviously it doesn't, however >> there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale >> ultimately failed. >> 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance >> and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from >> Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB >> SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached >> an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which >> Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe. It appears this never >> developed into a contract or production. >> About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their >> intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their >> original 1976 contract. Kittredge added that he was willing to release >> them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the >> agreement. I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not >> have a signed copy of it. In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and >> Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the >> other owners over misplaced funds. It's at this point I assume the company >> eventually failed. Whether because of the release agreement or the failure >> of the company, no other K-600's were built. >> As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential >> K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own. Kittredge >> responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. >> Jon >> >> >> On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were >> dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North >> Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They >> could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 >> meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was >> that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people >> in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck >> of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was >> going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It >> was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to >> see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. >> Vance >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 30 09:20:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 13:20:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1637174022.268966.1593523231051@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick, that is really cool! ?Hank On Monday, June 29, 2020, 8:03:14 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Well guy'sI did the taping segment with Jeff Foxworthy last Friday and he showed a lot of interest in the sub even though the show was suspose to be about getting an old Navy hard hat appraised. We talked for about a half an hour and he asked me if I could undo the camera and give him a tour of the sub which I did. I was able to mention the group and the name of the web site but they are going to edit it down to a 5 minute segment so who knows if it will make it or not. It will air in August so I'll let you guy's know when I know. He told me that he wanted to let him know when it was done so he could take a ride in it but I think he was probably only saying that for the audience and a laugh but who knows. I would love to take him for a ride but don't want to subject myself to all the liability.Rick On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:13 AM Rick Patton wrote: Mahalo!Rick On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:16 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: facebook.com/groups/PSUBS On Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:51:30 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor.?PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to find it? Rick On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I can.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in the history.? I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. An outline: 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by KITTREDGE". Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.? Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.? According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing of KITTREDGE".? Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale ultimately failed. 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready.? At the same time, SUB SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears this never developed into a contract or production. About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built. As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. Jon On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. Vance _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 30 19:33:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 23:33:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1637174022.268966.1593523231051@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> <1637174022.268966.1593523231051@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1815286635.78870.1593560011545@mail.yahoo.com> Very cool, Rick.?? Jon On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 09:22:30 AM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick, that is really cool! ?Hank On Monday, June 29, 2020, 8:03:14 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Well guy'sI did the taping segment with Jeff Foxworthy last Friday and he showed a lot of interest in the sub even though the show was suspose to be about getting an old Navy hard hat appraised. We talked for about a half an hour and he asked me if I could undo the camera and give him a tour of the sub which I did. I was able to mention the group and the name of the web site but they are going to edit it down to a 5 minute segment so who knows if it will make it or not. It will air in August so I'll let you guy's know when I know. He told me that he wanted to let him know when it was done so he could take a ride in it but I think he was probably only saying that for the audience and a laugh but who knows. I would love to take him for a ride but don't want to subject myself to all the liability.Rick On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:13 AM Rick Patton wrote: Mahalo!Rick On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:16 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: facebook.com/groups/PSUBS On Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:51:30 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor.?PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to find it? Rick On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I can.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity Vance, your memory is excellent.? I opened up the documentation last night and started going through it again.? I need to put a timeline together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship and in the end everything just fell apart.? I've got some interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted by a crane.? I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in the history.? I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. An outline: 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE.? This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by KITTREDGE". Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual capacities.? The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after incorporation.? Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980.? Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL).? However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett.? According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel.? At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a submarine.? This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA.? It looks to me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland.? According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three years.? Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals.? SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine.? Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing of KITTREDGE".? Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed copy of the contract.? And since no additional K-600's were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the contract or never gave approval for a license.? I suspect the former simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had not received the balance payment for the vessel.? My guess is he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in operation.? The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine.? The men tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave confident that the transaction will proceed.? Obviously it doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale ultimately failed. 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready.? At the same time, SUB SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe.? It appears this never developed into a contract or production. About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original 1976 contract.? Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement.? I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed copy of it.? In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other owners over misplaced funds.? It's at this point I assume the company eventually failed.? Whether because of the release agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built. As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own.? Kittredge responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. Jon On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. Vance _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 30 20:40:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 14:40:41 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: <1815286635.78870.1593560011545@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> <1637174022.268966.1593523231051@mail.yahoo.com> <1815286635.78870.1593560011545@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I hope so, they wanted me to have the hard hat on with the faceplate closed when Jeff first came on camera and then I was to open the faceplace and say "Aloha Jeff, how are you?" and then take it off and put it back on the stand beside me to continue from there which I think was real hookey but that's what they wanted so we went with it. Rick On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:34 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Very cool, Rick. > > Jon > > > > On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 09:22:30 AM EDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Rick, that is really cool! > Hank > > On Monday, June 29, 2020, 8:03:14 PM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Well guy's > I did the taping segment with Jeff Foxworthy last Friday and he showed a > lot of interest in the sub even though the show was suspose to be about > getting an old Navy hard hat appraised. We talked for about a half an hour > and he asked me if I could undo the camera and give him a tour of the sub > which I did. I was able to mention the group and the name of the web site > but they are going to edit it down to a 5 minute segment so who knows if it > will make it or not. It will air in August so I'll let you guy's know when > I know. He told me that he wanted to let him know when it was done so he > could take a ride in it but I think he was probably only saying that for > the audience and a laugh but who knows. I would love to take him for a ride > but don't want to subject myself to all the liability. > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:13 AM Rick Patton wrote: > > Mahalo! > Rick > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:16 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > facebook.com/groups/PSUBS > > > On Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:51:30 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to > 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at > all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor. > PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the > Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to > find it? > Rick > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's > part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I > can. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity > > > Vance, your memory is excellent. I opened up the documentation last night > and started going through it again. I need to put a timeline together > since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said > earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship > and in the end everything just fell apart. I've got some interesting > pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a > few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted > by a crane. I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the > project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in > the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in > the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. > > An outline: > 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented > by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for > "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of > six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such > other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE. > This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the > current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by > KITTREDGE". > > Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time > with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual > capacities. The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after > incorporation. Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) > and he did not receive the balance until December 1980. Kittredge wanted > certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now > DNV-GL). However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given > some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett. According to those > letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party > had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to > properly certify the vessel. At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo > Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from > Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a > submarine. This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't > seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. > > 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the > K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA. It looks to me like > this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with > Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, > and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland. According to the > contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three > years. Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each > submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and > maintenance manuals. SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each > submarine. Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't > surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval > by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no > modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without > the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract > created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I > do not have a signed copy of the contract. And since no additional K-600's > were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the > contract or never gave approval for a license. I suspect the former simply > because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had > not received the balance payment for the vessel. My guess is he wasn't > going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 > but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. > > 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. > > 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for > the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in > operation. The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches > the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine. The men tell Kittredge > they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave > confident that the transaction will proceed. Obviously it doesn't, however > there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale > ultimately failed. > 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance > and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from > Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB > SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached > an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which > Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe. It appears this never > developed into a contract or production. > About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention > was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original > 1976 contract. Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from > the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement. I > have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed > copy of it. In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett > informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other > owners over misplaced funds. It's at this point I assume the company > eventually failed. Whether because of the release agreement or the failure > of the company, no other K-600's were built. > As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential > K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own. Kittredge > responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. > Jon > > > On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were > dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North > Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They > could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 > meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was > that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people > in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck > of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was > going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It > was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to > see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. > Vance > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 30 22:37:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 14:37:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> <1637174022.268966.1593523231051@mail.yahoo.com> <1815286635.78870.1593560011545@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, congratulations be good if you could get it put up on the Facebook site when it comes out otherwise I won't be able to see it down in Covid free New Zealand! Alan > On 1/07/2020, at 12:40 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I hope so, they wanted me to have the hard hat on with the faceplate closed when Jeff first came on camera and then I was to open the faceplace and say "Aloha Jeff, how are you?" and then take it off and put it back on the stand beside me to continue from there which I think was real hookey but that's what they wanted so we went with it. > Rick > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:34 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Very cool, Rick. >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 09:22:30 AM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Rick, that is really cool! >> Hank >> >> On Monday, June 29, 2020, 8:03:14 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Well guy's >> I did the taping segment with Jeff Foxworthy last Friday and he showed a lot of interest in the sub even though the show was suspose to be about getting an old Navy hard hat appraised. We talked for about a half an hour and he asked me if I could undo the camera and give him a tour of the sub which I did. I was able to mention the group and the name of the web site but they are going to edit it down to a 5 minute segment so who knows if it will make it or not. It will air in August so I'll let you guy's know when I know. He told me that he wanted to let him know when it was done so he could take a ride in it but I think he was probably only saying that for the audience and a laugh but who knows. I would love to take him for a ride but don't want to subject myself to all the liability. >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:13 AM Rick Patton wrote: >> Mahalo! >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:16 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> facebook.com/groups/PSUBS >> >> >> On Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:51:30 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor. >> PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to find it? >> Rick >> >> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I can. >> Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity >> >> >> Vance, your memory is excellent. I opened up the documentation last night and started going through it again. I need to put a timeline together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business relationship and in the end everything just fell apart. I've got some interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of the K600 being hoisted by a crane. I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is really interested in the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be able to fill in. >> >> An outline: >> 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE. This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by KITTREDGE". >> >> Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual capacities. The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after incorporation. Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) and he did not receive the balance until December 1980. Kittredge wanted certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now DNV-GL). However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett. According to those letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to properly certify the vessel. At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a submarine. This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. >> >> 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA. It looks to me like this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland. According to the contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three years. Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and maintenance manuals. SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each submarine. Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I do not have a signed copy of the contract. And since no additional K-600's were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the contract or never gave approval for a license. I suspect the former simply because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had not received the balance payment for the vessel. My guess is he wasn't going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. >> >> 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. >> >> 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in operation. The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine. The men tell Kittredge they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave confident that the transaction will proceed. Obviously it doesn't, however there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale ultimately failed. >> 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe. It appears this never developed into a contract or production. >> About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their original 1976 contract. Kittredge added that he was willing to release them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the agreement. I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not have a signed copy of it. In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the other owners over misplaced funds. It's at this point I assume the company eventually failed. Whether because of the release agreement or the failure of the company, no other K-600's were built. >> As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own. Kittredge responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. >> Jon >> >> >>> On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. >> Vance >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jun 30 23:35:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 17:35:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity In-Reply-To: References: <1405947793.1638830.1592357911085@mail.yahoo.com> <248637538.1821320.1592403123825@mail.yahoo.com> <966681154.304310.1592417724134@mail.yahoo.com> <907362031.125870.1592491114591@mail.yahoo.com> <1178355918.886512.1592682299273@mail.yahoo.com> <1774301674.1951742.1592849715879@mail.yahoo.com> <1637174022.268966.1593523231051@mail.yahoo.com> <1815286635.78870.1593560011545@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I just asked one of the producers if I could get a full unedited copy burnt onto a CD and he said that that wouldn't be possible as the production company owns the wrights and footage so I asked him if I could get a finished edited version after it was shown on TV and he said that he would check into it. I would probably need Jon's help or someone that knew how to do that as that is way above my pay grade but I'll try. Rick On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:38 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > congratulations be good if you could get it put up on the Facebook site > when it comes > out otherwise I won't be able to see it down in Covid free New Zealand! > Alan > > > On 1/07/2020, at 12:40 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I hope so, they wanted me to have the hard hat on with the faceplate > closed when Jeff first came on camera and then I was to open the faceplace > and say "Aloha Jeff, how are you?" and then take it off and put it back on > the stand beside me to continue from there which I think was real hookey > but that's what they wanted so we went with it. > Rick > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:34 PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Very cool, Rick. >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 09:22:30 AM EDT, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Rick, that is really cool! >> Hank >> >> On Monday, June 29, 2020, 8:03:14 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Well guy's >> I did the taping segment with Jeff Foxworthy last Friday and he showed a >> lot of interest in the sub even though the show was suspose to be about >> getting an old Navy hard hat appraised. We talked for about a half an hour >> and he asked me if I could undo the camera and give him a tour of the sub >> which I did. I was able to mention the group and the name of the web site >> but they are going to edit it down to a 5 minute segment so who knows if it >> will make it or not. It will air in August so I'll let you guy's know when >> I know. He told me that he wanted to let him know when it was done so he >> could take a ride in it but I think he was probably only saying that for >> the audience and a laugh but who knows. I would love to take him for a ride >> but don't want to subject myself to all the liability. >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:13 AM Rick Patton wrote: >> >> Mahalo! >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:16 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> facebook.com/groups/PSUBS >> >> >> On Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:51:30 PM EDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> FYI, I tested the subcon fittings yesterday that had a 150 psi rating to >> 400 psi as that is as far as my gauge would go with no cable extrusion at >> all. This was based on using a fitting on both sides of the penetraitor. >> PS: Jon, I don't have a FB page but my wife does so we tried to find the >> Psubs FB page with no luck for some reason. What are we suspose to enter to >> find it? >> Rick >> >> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 9:45 AM via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Anything I could add would come from fireside reminiscing on George's >> part, and crawl throughs on the sub itself. Be glad to chip in wherever I >> can. >> Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:47 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] publicity >> >> >> Vance, your memory is excellent. I opened up the documentation last >> night and started going through it again. I need to put a timeline >> together since many of the documents are scattered chronologically, but as >> I said earlier, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't a good business >> relationship and in the end everything just fell apart. I've got some >> interesting pictures of some early subs/experiments, also original >> negatives and even a few original Ektachrome slides (remember those??) of >> the K600 being hoisted by a crane. I'm tempted to create a K600 archive to >> memorialize the project on the website but I'm not sure anyone else is >> really interested in the history. I wonder how your memory corresponds to >> what I am seeing in the documents and if there are any details you might be >> able to fill in. >> >> An outline: >> 2/19/76 - George Kittredge and SUB SERVICE of Alesund Norway represented >> by Robert Hartnett, and Leiv Busaet, enter into a contract for >> "...development of a small submarine having a maximum operating depth of >> six hundred (600) feet, to be designed for use in the oil industry or such >> other uses as may be profitable to SUB SERVICE and adaptable by KITTREDGE. >> This submarine is known as the K-600 series submarine and shall include the >> current prototype K-600 and such modifications as are approved by >> KITTREDGE". >> >> Interestingly, SUB SERVICE was not an incorporated business at this time >> with Hartnett and Busaet signing the contract in their individual >> capacities. The contract was to be adopted by SUB SERVICE after >> incorporation. Initial payment was $30,000 (equivalent to $130,000 today) >> and he did not receive the balance until December 1980. Kittredge wanted >> certification by ABS, SUB SERVICE insisted on Det Norske Veritas (now >> DNV-GL). However Veritas appears to have been difficult to work with given >> some letters I have between Kittredge and Hartnett. According to those >> letters Veritas was slow to respond to approval of plans and neither party >> had confidence that Veritas had enough experience with submarines to >> properly certify the vessel. At one point Kittredge traveled to Oslo >> Norway and met directly with Veritas engineers and there is talk from >> Hartnett about Kittredge having to educate them in how to certify a >> submarine. This must be why they ended up with Lloyds although I haven't >> seen any documents specifically addressing the change to Lloyds. >> >> 3/1/79 - Kittredge had a contract written to license manufacturing of the >> K-600 to SUB SERVICE anywhere in the world except USA. It looks to me like >> this was initiated by SUB SERVICE, whom were seeking to partner with >> Offshore Inspection Ltd of Glasgow, Scotland, to manufacture, market, sell, >> and maintain K-600 submarines within UK and Ireland. According to the >> contract, SUB SERVICE would produce ten K-600 vessels per year, for three >> years. Kittredge would receive 20% of the construction costs for each >> submarine as well as an hourly wage for writing and producing operation and >> maintenance manuals. SUB SERVICE was seeking a 50% profit margin on each >> submarine. Stipulations, and if you knew George you likely aren't >> surprised by this, were that each manufacturing license required approval >> by Kittredege "...in writing on a submarine by submarine basis" and "...no >> modification whatsoever of the submarine known as the K-600 series without >> the consent in writing of KITTREDGE". Even though this is a contract >> created by Kittredge in response to a business proposal by SUB SERVICE, I >> do not have a signed copy of the contract. And since no additional K-600's >> were ever produced I think we can conclude that he either never signed the >> contract or never gave approval for a license. I suspect the former simply >> because by this time the submarine was physically complete but he still had >> not received the balance payment for the vessel. My guess is he wasn't >> going to sign anything until he got final payment for the existing K-600 >> but had the contract drawn up as a carrot. >> >> 6/21/79 - The K-600 is approved for certification by Lloyds. >> >> 12/1/79 - SUB SERVICE tells Kittredge they have a buyer from England for >> the K-600 and two people want to travel to Maine to see the sub in >> operation. The buyers arrive 12/10/79 and on 12/11/79 Kittredge launches >> the K-600 in Penobscot Bay and demos the submarine. The men tell Kittredge >> they will be purchasing it from SUB SERVICE for $125,000 and leave >> confident that the transaction will proceed. Obviously it doesn't, however >> there's no documentation on who these folks represented or why the sale >> ultimately failed. >> 12/11/80 - After Many letters of promised dates for the payment balance >> and many letters to lawyers on both sides, SUB SERVICE takes delivery from >> Kittredge about 18 months after it was ready. At the same time, SUB >> SERVICE along with Kittredge met with Bath Iron Works in Maine and reached >> an agreement whereby BIW would manufacture 10 submarine basic hulls which >> Kittredge would finish and then ship to Europe. It appears this never >> developed into a contract or production. >> About a week later Kittredge wrote SUB SERVICE asking what their >> intention was for the other ten submarines they agreed to purchase in their >> original 1976 contract. Kittredge added that he was willing to release >> them from the agreement if they would mutually release him from the >> agreement. I have the release document that Kittredge had drawn up, not >> have a signed copy of it. In 1982-83 SUB SERVICE had internal strife and >> Hartnett informs Kittredge he is taking legal action against some of the >> other owners over misplaced funds. It's at this point I assume the company >> eventually failed. Whether because of the release agreement or the failure >> of the company, no other K-600's were built. >> As late as 1983, Hartnett was still writing Kittredge about potential >> K-900 and K-1000, seemingly ready to strike out on his own. Kittredge >> responded at one point that he was 65 and retired. >> Jon >> >> >> On 6/18/2020 10:38 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Very cool. And I'm pretty sure George thought the Norwegian owners were >> dreaming. Their idea was to put a sub on every rig complex in the North >> Sea, and operate them with only small boats for comms and support. They >> could have asked me. I'd have told them a little about winter gales and 5-8 >> meter seas. Aside from a bad idea at the start, what really happened was >> that ROV technology caught up. The oil companies and engineers liked people >> in subs, but the lawyers and insurance companies did not. George had a heck >> of a time reacquiring the 600. It got hung up in legalese in Norway and was >> going to be junked, or just stuck in a corner somewhere and forgotten. It >> was and is (arguably) the nicest sub George ever built, so I was happy to >> see it saved, and very pleased indeed when you snagged it. >> Vance >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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