From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 4 11:32:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 11:32:35 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Innerspace Science expeditions for 2020? Message-ID: Hi everyone, It's a good time to plan expeditions for the year, so I would like to put out a tender for ideas! Does anyone out there have suggestions for Innerspace Science expeditions in 2020? In 2018 we did Lake Tahoe, and in 2019 Flathead Lake. This year we could continue with lakes, or take some first (and humble) step into salt water. Ideas can of course come from the science community, and I am in contact with a university professor in Maine who has some initiatives. The neat thing about that one is that it involves both coastal ocean dives and a lake. But ideas can also go the other way, where someone in this group proposes an expedition and we reach out to the local science community. Please let me know. Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 4 11:50:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 08:50:35 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] commutator for reel Message-ID: <20200104085035.6924655D@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 4 11:57:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2020 16:57:08 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] commutator for reel In-Reply-To: <20200104085035.6924655D@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20200104085035.6924655D@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: Lots of manufacturers online. Look up "slip rings". Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 4, 2020, 09:50, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > Does anyone know if any of the connector companies make a commutator for a data cable. I've been thinking about uses for a reel that would reel in and out a data cable but there is the issue of axis of the reel connection where that part turns and would need a type of commutator connection. > > Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 4 12:22:10 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 09:22:10 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] commutator for reel Message-ID: <20200104092210.69235B6A@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 11:58:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:58:33 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant Message-ID: <20200107085833.69284140@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1506.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 129367 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 12:19:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 09:19:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant In-Reply-To: <20200107085833.69284140@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200107085833.69284140@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <000001d5c57e$a8c03e60$fa40bb20$@telus.net> This looks really interesting, Brian. Will you be deconstructing it to cannibalize and install parts in the sub, or modifying it to submerge externally? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:59 AM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant Just bought this Honda 25hp for my sub. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 13:20:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 10:20:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant Message-ID: <20200107102003.6923C561@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 13:26:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 11:26:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant In-Reply-To: <000001d5c57e$a8c03e60$fa40bb20$@telus.net> References: <000001d5c57e$a8c03e60$fa40bb20$@telus.net> Message-ID: Brian that is beautiful Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 7, 2020, at 10:58 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > This looks really interesting, Brian. > > Will you be deconstructing it to cannibalize and install parts in the sub, or modifying it to submerge externally? > > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:59 AM > To: PSubs > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant > > Just bought this Honda 25hp for my sub. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 14:30:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 11:30:26 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant In-Reply-To: <20200107102003.6923C561@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200107102003.6923C561@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <001301d5c590$ead6dd10$c0849730$@telus.net> Thanks, Brian. This sounds good. Really interesting that you plan to lock the dinghy onto the sub while in transit. Solves the problem of the sub and dinghy responding to waves differently. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 10:20 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant No, just to power on the surface. Will be on the dingy, but I plan to lock the dingy into the back of the sub and then have it on a swivel so I can have it firmly attached to the back end of the sub and be able to steer it using my existing sub steering. But it would remain on the dingy and on the surface when I submerge. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 09:19:42 -0800 This looks really interesting, Brian. Will you be deconstructing it to cannibalize and install parts in the sub, or modifying it to submerge externally? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:59 AM To: PSubs > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant Just bought this Honda 25hp for my sub. Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 14:40:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 08:40:25 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant In-Reply-To: <20200107085833.69284140@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200107085833.69284140@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <922AD038-95F0-4F9B-9FBD-9E29AADEDC89@yahoo.com> Good plan Brian, that will give you enough horsepower to fight any currents & save your batteries for the dive. Alan > On 8/01/2020, at 5:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just bought this Honda 25hp for my sub. > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 15:30:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:30:23 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Through hull connectors now on eBay Message-ID: <5e14ea5e.1c69fb81.cdb63.3881@mx.google.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 18:14:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:14:07 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant Message-ID: <20200107151407.69241E7E@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 18:21:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:21:05 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UI convention in New Orleans Message-ID: Hi Guys, Just got my reservations confirmed for the UI convention in New Orleans. Anyone else going? MANNED SUBMERSIBLES The Marine Technology Society committee on Manned Underwater Vehicles brings together professionals interested in the innovations of manned submersibles design, construction and operation and the quest for a variety of marine science and engineering goals. UI2020 will host the 17th Annual MUV Symposium; a three-day technical program that invites industry experts from around the world. The program offers presentations about: - *Emerging MUV Design and Engineering Innovations* - *Advances in Material Science and Fabrication* - *MUV Operations ? Private, Commercial, Research* - *Regulatory Updates* Each presentation has a focus is on manned submersible vehicles and often overlap into other areas of deep water intervention. As is our tradition, the symposium opens with the MUV Industry Overview for 2019-2020 with highlights from specific initiatives/expeditions conducted around the globe. This year, the world celebrates the 60th anniversary of the first TRIESTE dive to the Mariana Trench, and the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 and NASA?s manned exploration of the Moon. Presentations will feature Deep Ocean Expeditions, tourism and commercial vehicle operations; advances in subsea technology, underwater navigation, sonar, communication, as well as regulatory developments in design, testing and operation of MUVs. For more than 15 years, MTS MUV has developed a regulatory and classification track that features leading representatives from ABS, DNVGL, US NAVY and US Coast Guard who on a regular basis review regulatory changes and adaptations for emerging technologies. This program is designed to give industry and regulators an opportunity to meet face to face and share best practices. Along with education and presentations, the Annual Symposium hosts a cocktail reception at the Marriott Hotel. This networking opportunity is open to all, offering MUV manufacturers, operators, and pilots a chance to connect, catch up and share stories in a reunion style evening. Since 2003, the MTS MUV Symposium at Underwater Intervention is the only conference in the world that unites all MUV operators, manufacturers and stakeholders in one place. New Orleans, February 2020. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 18:22:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:22:26 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant In-Reply-To: <20200107151407.69241E7E@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20200107151407.69241E7E@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: Sweet! Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 3:15 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I think what I'm going to do is mount the motor backwards off the back of > the dingy. So when I'm running the dingy I would run it in reverse to go > forward in just the dingy. That way I could back up to the sub and secure > it to a mounting bracket that is already securely mounted to the sub. Just > have to figure out how to rig the dingy so it doesn't do a wheelie since > the motor would be further back than normal. Might have to have some sort > of counter weight in the front of the dingy . > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new power plant > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 08:40:25 +1300 > > Good plan Brian, > that will give you enough horsepower to fight any currents & save your > batteries for the dive. > Alan > > On 8/01/2020, at 5:58 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just bought this Honda 25hp for my sub. > > Brian > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 19:01:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 19:01:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UI convention in New Orleans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been asked to give a presentation about Innerspace Science, which is tentatively scheduled for 8:30 AM on day 3. So... maybe I'll have at least ONE person in attendance, eh? I won't be there all three days, I get in on day 2. :) Alec On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 6:21 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Guys, Just got my reservations confirmed for the UI convention in New > Orleans. Anyone else going? > MANNED SUBMERSIBLES > > > > The Marine Technology Society committee on Manned Underwater Vehicles > brings together professionals interested in the innovations of manned > submersibles design, construction and operation and the quest for a variety > of marine science and engineering goals. UI2020 will host the 17th Annual > MUV Symposium; a three-day technical program that invites industry experts > from around the world. The program offers presentations about: > > - *Emerging MUV Design and Engineering Innovations* > - *Advances in Material Science and Fabrication* > - *MUV Operations ? Private, Commercial, Research* > - *Regulatory Updates* > > Each presentation has a focus is on manned submersible vehicles and often > overlap into other areas of deep water intervention. As is our tradition, > the symposium opens with the MUV Industry Overview for 2019-2020 with > highlights from specific initiatives/expeditions conducted around the > globe. This year, the world celebrates the 60th anniversary of the first > TRIESTE dive to the Mariana Trench, and the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 > and NASA?s manned exploration of the Moon. Presentations will feature Deep > Ocean Expeditions, tourism and commercial vehicle operations; advances in > subsea technology, underwater navigation, sonar, communication, as well as > regulatory developments in design, testing and operation of MUVs. > > For more than 15 years, MTS MUV has developed a regulatory and > classification track that features leading representatives from ABS, DNVGL, > US NAVY and US Coast Guard who on a regular basis review regulatory changes > and adaptations for emerging technologies. This program is designed to give > industry and regulators an opportunity to meet face to face and share best > practices. Along with education and presentations, the Annual Symposium > hosts a cocktail reception at the Marriott Hotel. This networking > opportunity is open to all, offering MUV manufacturers, operators, and > pilots a chance to connect, catch up and share stories in a reunion style > evening. Since 2003, the MTS MUV Symposium at Underwater Intervention > is the only conference in the world that unites all MUV operators, > manufacturers and stakeholders in one place. New Orleans, February 2020. > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 19:12:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 13:12:47 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UI convention in New Orleans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Am jealous. Went there one year & really enjoyed it. Just about tempted to go again. Is Wyvonne going David? > On 8/01/2020, at 1:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I've been asked to give a presentation about Innerspace Science, which is tentatively scheduled for 8:30 AM on day 3. So... maybe I'll have at least ONE person in attendance, eh? I won't be there all three days, I get in on day 2. > > :) > > Alec > >> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 6:21 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi Guys, Just got my reservations confirmed for the UI convention in New Orleans. Anyone else going? >> MANNED SUBMERSIBLES >> >> >> >> The Marine Technology Society committee on Manned Underwater Vehicles brings together professionals interested in the innovations of manned submersibles design, construction and operation and the quest for a variety of marine science and engineering goals. UI2020 will host the 17th Annual MUV Symposium; a three-day technical program that invites industry experts from around the world. The program offers presentations about: >> Emerging MUV Design and Engineering Innovations >> Advances in Material Science and Fabrication >> MUV Operations ? Private, Commercial, Research >> Regulatory Updates >> Each presentation has a focus is on manned submersible vehicles and often overlap into other areas of deep water intervention. As is our tradition, the symposium opens with the MUV Industry Overview for 2019-2020 with highlights from specific initiatives/expeditions conducted around the globe. This year, the world celebrates the 60th anniversary of the first TRIESTE dive to the Mariana Trench, and the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 and NASA?s manned exploration of the Moon. Presentations will feature Deep Ocean Expeditions, tourism and commercial vehicle operations; advances in subsea technology, underwater navigation, sonar, communication, as well as regulatory developments in design, testing and operation of MUVs. >> >> For more than 15 years, MTS MUV has developed a regulatory and classification track that features leading representatives from ABS, DNVGL, US NAVY and US Coast Guard who on a regular basis review regulatory changes and adaptations for emerging technologies. This program is designed to give industry and regulators an opportunity to meet face to face and share best practices. Along with education and presentations, the Annual Symposium hosts a cocktail reception at the Marriott Hotel. This networking opportunity is open to all, offering MUV manufacturers, operators, and pilots a chance to connect, catch up and share stories in a reunion style evening. Since 2003, the MTS MUV Symposium at Underwater Intervention is the only conference in the world that unites all MUV operators, manufacturers and stakeholders in one place. New Orleans, February 2020. >> >> >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> 804 College Ave >> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> (707) 536-1424 >> www.SeaQuestor.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 22:29:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 19:29:05 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UI convention in New Orleans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alan, shes not going, so it looks like i'm taking her on a hawaii trip. On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 4:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Am jealous. > Went there one year & really enjoyed it. > Just about tempted to go again. > Is Wyvonne going David? > > > On 8/01/2020, at 1:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I've been asked to give a presentation about Innerspace Science, which is > tentatively scheduled for 8:30 AM on day 3. So... maybe I'll have at least > ONE person in attendance, eh? I won't be there all three days, I get in on > day 2. > > :) > > Alec > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 6:21 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Guys, Just got my reservations confirmed for the UI convention in New >> Orleans. Anyone else going? >> MANNED SUBMERSIBLES >> >> >> >> The Marine Technology Society committee on Manned Underwater Vehicles >> brings together professionals interested in the innovations of manned >> submersibles design, construction and operation and the quest for a variety >> of marine science and engineering goals. UI2020 will host the 17th Annual >> MUV Symposium; a three-day technical program that invites industry experts >> from around the world. The program offers presentations about: >> >> - *Emerging MUV Design and Engineering Innovations* >> - *Advances in Material Science and Fabrication* >> - *MUV Operations ? Private, Commercial, Research* >> - *Regulatory Updates* >> >> Each presentation has a focus is on manned submersible vehicles and often >> overlap into other areas of deep water intervention. As is our tradition, >> the symposium opens with the MUV Industry Overview for 2019-2020 with >> highlights from specific initiatives/expeditions conducted around the >> globe. This year, the world celebrates the 60th anniversary of the first >> TRIESTE dive to the Mariana Trench, and the 50th anniversary of Apollo >> 11 and NASA?s manned exploration of the Moon. Presentations will feature >> Deep Ocean Expeditions, tourism and commercial vehicle operations; advances >> in subsea technology, underwater navigation, sonar, communication, as well >> as regulatory developments in design, testing and operation of MUVs. >> >> For more than 15 years, MTS MUV has developed a regulatory and >> classification track that features leading representatives from ABS, DNVGL, >> US NAVY and US Coast Guard who on a regular basis review regulatory changes >> and adaptations for emerging technologies. This program is designed to give >> industry and regulators an opportunity to meet face to face and share best >> practices. Along with education and presentations, the Annual Symposium >> hosts a cocktail reception at the Marriott Hotel. This networking >> opportunity is open to all, offering MUV manufacturers, operators, and >> pilots a chance to connect, catch up and share stories in a reunion style >> evening. Since 2003, the MTS MUV Symposium at Underwater Intervention >> is the only conference in the world that unites all MUV operators, >> manufacturers and stakeholders in one place. New Orleans, February 2020. >> >> >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> 804 College Ave >> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> (707) 536-1424 >> www.SeaQuestor.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 7 22:52:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 16:52:35 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UI convention in New Orleans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Convince her to go to the big Island, Rick must be finishing his k350 soon! Alan > On 8/01/2020, at 4:29 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, shes not going, so it looks like i'm taking her on a hawaii trip. > >> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 4:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Am jealous. >> Went there one year & really enjoyed it. >> Just about tempted to go again. >> Is Wyvonne going David? >> >> >>> On 8/01/2020, at 1:01 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> I've been asked to give a presentation about Innerspace Science, which is tentatively scheduled for 8:30 AM on day 3. So... maybe I'll have at least ONE person in attendance, eh? I won't be there all three days, I get in on day 2. >>> >>> :) >>> >>> Alec >>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 6:21 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hi Guys, Just got my reservations confirmed for the UI convention in New Orleans. Anyone else going? >>>> MANNED SUBMERSIBLES >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The Marine Technology Society committee on Manned Underwater Vehicles brings together professionals interested in the innovations of manned submersibles design, construction and operation and the quest for a variety of marine science and engineering goals. UI2020 will host the 17th Annual MUV Symposium; a three-day technical program that invites industry experts from around the world. The program offers presentations about: >>>> Emerging MUV Design and Engineering Innovations >>>> Advances in Material Science and Fabrication >>>> MUV Operations ? Private, Commercial, Research >>>> Regulatory Updates >>>> Each presentation has a focus is on manned submersible vehicles and often overlap into other areas of deep water intervention. As is our tradition, the symposium opens with the MUV Industry Overview for 2019-2020 with highlights from specific initiatives/expeditions conducted around the globe. This year, the world celebrates the 60th anniversary of the first TRIESTE dive to the Mariana Trench, and the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 and NASA?s manned exploration of the Moon. Presentations will feature Deep Ocean Expeditions, tourism and commercial vehicle operations; advances in subsea technology, underwater navigation, sonar, communication, as well as regulatory developments in design, testing and operation of MUVs. >>>> >>>> For more than 15 years, MTS MUV has developed a regulatory and classification track that features leading representatives from ABS, DNVGL, US NAVY and US Coast Guard who on a regular basis review regulatory changes and adaptations for emerging technologies. This program is designed to give industry and regulators an opportunity to meet face to face and share best practices. Along with education and presentations, the Annual Symposium hosts a cocktail reception at the Marriott Hotel. This networking opportunity is open to all, offering MUV manufacturers, operators, and pilots a chance to connect, catch up and share stories in a reunion style evening. Since 2003, the MTS MUV Symposium at Underwater Intervention is the only conference in the world that unites all MUV operators, manufacturers and stakeholders in one place. New Orleans, February 2020. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> David Colombo >>>> >>>> 804 College Ave >>>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>>> (707) 536-1424 >>>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 8 06:37:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 00:37:50 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lithium Sulphur Batteries References: <18E1A9EC-D45B-4A87-AA30-D3D609C1AE53.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18E1A9EC-D45B-4A87-AA30-D3D609C1AE53@yahoo.com> This looks promising, have been following the lithium sulphur technology for a while & the main problem has been cycle life. The energy density has been known for a while now. But looks like these guys in Melbourne Australia have had a breakthrough. Alan New Lithium-Sulfur Battery Could Quadruple Camera Battery Life JAN 06, 2020 DL CADE 50 COMMENTS Researchers at Australia?s Monash University have developed what they?re calling ?the world?s most efficient lithium-sulphur (Li-S) battery,? an ultra-high-capacity design that could quadruple camera battery life and run a smartphone for 5 consecutive days without a charge. Over the years, we?ve reported on many promising battery breakthroughs that have remained stuck in the research phase, but the Monash team, led by Dr. Mahdokht Shaibani, has reason to be optimistic. Their design already has an approved patent, prototypes have already been manufactured in Germany, and ?some of the world?s largest producers of lithium batteries? have apparently expressed interest in upscaling production. The breakthrough was inspired by a ?unique bridging architecture? between molecules in detergent powders, which was first discovered in the 1970s. Using this architecture as a baseline, the team engineered a method that creates stronger bonds between particles in the Li-S battery, allowing the resulting cell to ?accommodate stress and deliver a level of stability not seen in any battery to date.? Associate Professor Matthew Hill, Dr Mahdokht Shaibani and Professor Mainak Majumder with the lithium-sulphur battery design. Credit: Monash University As a result the new Li-S design seems to offer the best of all worlds: boasting four-times the performance of the best Li-Ion batteries on the market while significantly decreasing the environmental impact of manufacturing. And while the main examples given in the announcement are phones (5 day battery life) and electric cars (1000km/621-mile range), the potential applications in all consumer electronics, including and especially mirrorless cameras, are obvious. The Monash University press release claims that the researchers are ?on the brink of commercializing? this particular breakthrough. Further testing in cars and solar grids is planned for early 2020, leaving us hopeful that this tech could actually hit the mainstream in the next couple of years. (via Engadget) Image credits: Header photo by Marco Verch, CC BY 2.0. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 00:10:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 21:10:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid Message-ID: <20200108211058.692394EB@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1508.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 124518 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1510.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 104333 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 05:06:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 23:06:37 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <20200108211058.692394EB@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200108211058.692394EB@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <768FE347-B88F-487B-AB54-868330C17C16@yahoo.com> You've been busy Brian. My effort the last few days has been filing years of accumulated sub stuff. Most of it was in folders stacked in a pile, so quite pleased with this new portable system. Still have a few more categories to add, & folders to sought. Alan > On 9/01/2020, at 6:10 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here are some shots of my weight reduction quest. > > Brian > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1474691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 08:57:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:57:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <20200108211058.692394EB@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20200108211058.692394EB@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <244251245.9092846.1578578229167@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,You sure are putting it on a dietHank On Wednesday, January 8, 2020, 10:11:14 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here are some shots of my weight reduction quest. Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 12:30:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 09:30:00 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid Message-ID: <20200109093000.692104BD@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 14:00:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 11:00:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <768FE347-B88F-487B-AB54-868330C17C16@yahoo.com> References: <20200108211058.692394EB@m0117460.ppops.net> <768FE347-B88F-487B-AB54-868330C17C16@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d5c71f$16c99180$445cb480$@telus.net> Wow, Alan, This is a great idea. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2020 2:07 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid You've been busy Brian. My effort the last few days has been filing years of accumulated sub stuff. Most of it was in folders stacked in a pile, so quite pleased with this new portable system. Still have a few more categories to add, & folders to sought. Alan On 9/01/2020, at 6:10 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Here are some shots of my weight reduction quest. Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1474691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 15:09:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:09:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <768FE347-B88F-487B-AB54-868330C17C16@yahoo.com> References: <20200108211058.692394EB@m0117460.ppops.net> <768FE347-B88F-487B-AB54-868330C17C16@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <966405275.9311985.1578600551735@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, when you kick the bucket, the executor of your estate will love you for this.? He (or she) will send out an email to family asking if anyone is interested in submarines.? He (or she) after hearing back nothing will pick the file box up and toss in the bin.? They will do the same thing with all the sub parts in shop being careful to keep your tools. Best On Thursday, January 9, 2020, 04:08:51 AM CST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You've been busy Brian.My effort the last few days has been filing years of accumulated sub stuff.Most of it was in folders stacked in a pile, so quite pleased with this new?portable system. Still have a few more categories to add, & folders to sought.Alan On 9/01/2020, at 6:10 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here are some shots of my weight reduction quest. Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1474691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 15:45:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 12:45:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <20200109093000.692104BD@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20200109093000.692104BD@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, were you drinking Guinness when you wrote the tab Guiness? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 9:31 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Still probably won't be enough ! My trailer tough is now negative ! I'm > going to have to add lead to the front of the trailer and beef up that > section. Also thinking about adding an additional vent valve up front > since I tend to get a bubble stuck up there, as the sub goes down the > bubble shifts to the back causing a rather dramatic change in > orientation . Bleeding that front bubble out first would make things more > controlled. In the future I don't think it would be an issue but until I > get things level I may be helpful. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid > Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:57:09 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > You sure are putting it on a diet > Hank > > > On Wednesday, January 8, 2020, 10:11:14 PM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Here are some shots of my weight reduction quest. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 16:01:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:01:01 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <966405275.9311985.1578600551735@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200108211058.692394EB@m0117460.ppops.net> <768FE347-B88F-487B-AB54-868330C17C16@yahoo.com> <966405275.9311985.1578600551735@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <061601d5c72f$e8a7a970$b9f6fc50$@gmail.com> Cliff, So true. Did give me a chuckle though. Happy New Year to all. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 10 January 2020 9:09 AM To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid Alan, when you kick the bucket, the executor of your estate will love you for this. He (or she) will send out an email to family asking if anyone is interested in submarines. He (or she) after hearing back nothing will pick the file box up and toss in the bin. They will do the same thing with all the sub parts in shop being careful to keep your tools. Best On Thursday, January 9, 2020, 04:08:51 AM CST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: You've been busy Brian. My effort the last few days has been filing years of accumulated sub stuff. Most of it was in folders stacked in a pile, so quite pleased with this new portable system. Still have a few more categories to add, & folders to sought. Alan image1.JPG On 9/01/2020, at 6:10 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here are some shots of my weight reduction quest. Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1474691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 16:39:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:39:44 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid Message-ID: <20200109133944.6920F678@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 9 17:00:38 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 11:00:38 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <20200109133944.6920F678@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20200109133944.6920F678@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <6A058752-D5D6-4D67-BF72-5A7344ECE092@yahoo.com> I am proud of my new filing box & recommend it to anyone starting a project. Makes things a lot easier for filing & retrieving. Am buying another one today & more files for more categories. The Guinness tab is nothing to do with beer. I applied to do a Guinness book of records "Worlds smallest submarine" record attempt, but never got round to it. Cliff, I'll donate the box to Psubs in my will seeing as there are a lot of Psub emails in it ( including some from you & Hugh ). And yeah I better finish this project before I pass on because my two girls will be going "What the hell" & as you said, all the bits & pieces & epic ideas will be chucked in the bin. Alan > On 10/01/2020, at 10:39 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > No Guinness widget in my ballast tank as of yet! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid > Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 12:45:21 -0800 > > Brian, were you drinking Guinness when you wrote the tab Guiness? > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 9:31 AM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Still probably won't be enough ! My trailer tough is now negative ! I'm going to have to add lead to the front of the trailer and beef up that section. Also thinking about adding an additional vent valve up front since I tend to get a bubble stuck up there, as the sub goes down the bubble shifts to the back causing a rather dramatic change in orientation . Bleeding that front bubble out first would make things more controlled. In the future I don't think it would be an issue but until I get things level I may be helpful. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid > Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:57:09 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > You sure are putting it on a diet > Hank > > > On Wednesday, January 8, 2020, 10:11:14 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Here are some shots of my weight reduction quest. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 07:35:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 05:35:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distraction References: <2642CB4D-4681-45DE-91E0-65894C17AEAA.ref@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <2642CB4D-4681-45DE-91E0-65894C17AEAA@yahoo.ca> Hi all, work on E3000 has slowed down a bit due to my new little helper distracting me. Her main job in the shop is to steal parts and play keep away with them. Hank -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0799.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2184821 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 09:37:29 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 14:37:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: Flathead Lake In-Reply-To: <283188307.439257.1576606936261@mail.yahoo.com> References: <757970465.1220918.1573945666289.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <757970465.1220918.1573945666289@mail.yahoo.com> <001401d59cd9$3c8a23a0$b59e6ae0$@telus.net> <000001d59cfb$36ff19f0$a4fd4dd0$@telus.net> <001201d59d87$8b62a020$a227e060$@telus.net> <283188307.439257.1576606936261@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <143595421.11700890.1578753449663@mail.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019, 6:24:39 PM UTCSubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake How can I see the videos ? On Sunday, November 17, 2019, 8:44:49 PM UTC, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks, David. ? This is great news.? You two have been very busy of late, so we all appreciate anytime time you can spare on this project.? We are glad to know that you are all well in your area. ? Looking forward to accessing the files. ? Best! ? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 8:27 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake ? Hi Tim i removed the link as i was uploading numerous files and it was noticing each upload. I have been sending all the files to the montana box site as they were unable to download the files from dropbox. All files will be complete next week. I will send a link to all team members once all files are uploaded. Sorry about the delays. Best?Regards, David Colombo ? On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 7:59 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec, ? David Colombo provided the access link to the Drop Box folder with the Flathead Lake dive file folders.? Once e you have the access link you can then create a Drop Box username which allows you gain access to folders created by others who provide you with access.? You can also create your own Drop Box folders and allow others to access them. ? I think that that's how it works.? When I just go into the URL all I get is a 404 error. ? David, please advise. ? Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 4:34 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake ? Tim, d'you have a link and password? ? Thanks, Alec ? On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 6:56 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: David uploaded a ton of photos onto the Dropbox.? I have not had a chance to look at it all. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 3:08 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Flathead Lake ? Hi team Flathead Lake, did the FLBS folks get any video yet, how is that progressing? did I miss it? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 09:49:12 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 14:49:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <6A058752-D5D6-4D67-BF72-5A7344ECE092@yahoo.com> References: <20200109133944.6920F678@m0117457.ppops.net> <6A058752-D5D6-4D67-BF72-5A7344ECE092@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1005141388.11695498.1578754152581@mail.yahoo.com> Here's mine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Sub 2.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 1825254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 12:50:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 09:50:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distraction In-Reply-To: <2642CB4D-4681-45DE-91E0-65894C17AEAA@yahoo.ca> References: <2642CB4D-4681-45DE-91E0-65894C17AEAA.ref@yahoo.ca> <2642CB4D-4681-45DE-91E0-65894C17AEAA@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <002901d5c8a7$98da3ab0$ca8eb010$@telus.net> Wow, very nice, Hank. Now you will be really busy. Was this little one a Christmas present? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 4:35 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distraction Hi all, work on E3000 has slowed down a bit due to my new little helper distracting me. Her main job in the shop is to steal parts and play keep away with them. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 13:53:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 07:53:32 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Birthday?? References: <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0@yahoo.com> While clearing out my old files I came across a post that said Psubs site was launched on 11 January 1987. Making us 23 today (US time). Is that correct Jon! I know it went through a few iterations before that, starting as an interest group on a boat building forum. Cute dog Hank! Start taking her in & out of the hatch while she is small! Alan From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 13:59:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 07:59:23 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete /fiberglass hybrid In-Reply-To: <1005141388.11695498.1578754152581@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20200109133944.6920F678@m0117457.ppops.net> <6A058752-D5D6-4D67-BF72-5A7344ECE092@yahoo.com> <1005141388.11695498.1578754152581@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <89B74D37-9EBD-49E3-AAEC-1A521852E30A@yahoo.com> Peter, Yep, I'm storing a lot on the computer too but mainly images. Still prefer paper! Alan > On 12/01/2020, at 3:49 AM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here's mine > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 14:13:34 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 08:13:34 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Birthday?? In-Reply-To: <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0@yahoo.com> References: <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0.ref@yahoo.com> <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2799B36F-6AEB-46F2-BB95-0210B9395583@yahoo.com> Sorry poor maths & lack of coffee. should read "97". Alan > On 12/01/2020, at 7:53 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > While clearing out my old files I came across a post that said Psubs > site was launched on 11 January 1987. Making us 23 today (US time). > Is that correct Jon! > I know it went through a few iterations before that, starting as an interest > group on a boat building forum. > Cute dog Hank! Start taking her in & out of the hatch while she is small! > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 16:11:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 21:11:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Birthday?? In-Reply-To: <2799B36F-6AEB-46F2-BB95-0210B9395583@yahoo.com> References: <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0.ref@yahoo.com> <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0@yahoo.com> <2799B36F-6AEB-46F2-BB95-0210B9395583@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1026689451.11884890.1578777079626@mail.yahoo.com> Yes, that sounds right.? The history is at?http://www.psubs.org/aboutpsubs/mission/? It's been a good long run and I've met some great people.? Without trying to sound too dramatic, I do consider you folks my "brothers".? Just a unique set of circumstances and interest that we share. Happy Birthday Psubbers!! On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 02:18:01 PM EST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sorry poor maths & lack of coffee. should read "97". Alan > On 12/01/2020, at 7:53 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > While clearing out my old files I came across a post that said Psubs > site was launched on 11 January 1987. Making us 23 today (US time). > Is that correct Jon! > I know it went through a few iterations before that, starting as an interest > group on a boat building forum. > Cute dog Hank! Start taking her in & out of the hatch while she is small! > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 16:25:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 15:25:26 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Birthday?? In-Reply-To: <1026689451.11884890.1578777079626@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1026689451.11884890.1578777079626@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Happy birthday to us!!! > On Jan 11, 2020, at 3:13 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Yes, that sounds right. The history is at http://www.psubs.org/aboutpsubs/mission/ > > It's been a good long run and I've met some great people. Without trying to sound too dramatic, I do consider you folks my "brothers". Just a unique set of circumstances and interest that we share. > > Happy Birthday Psubbers!! > > > On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 02:18:01 PM EST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sorry poor maths & lack of coffee. should read "97". > Alan > > > On 12/01/2020, at 7:53 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > While clearing out my old files I came across a post that said Psubs > > site was launched on 11 January 1987. Making us 23 today (US time). > > Is that correct Jon! > > I know it went through a few iterations before that, starting as an interest > > group on a boat building forum. > > Cute dog Hank! Start taking her in & out of the hatch while she is small! > > Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 18:53:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 13:53:53 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Birthday?? In-Reply-To: References: <1026689451.11884890.1578777079626@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This format has made my build so much easier being able to converse with others that are in the same boat ( pun intended ). Aloha to all and Happy anniversary. Rick On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 11:26 AM Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Happy birthday to us!!! > > On Jan 11, 2020, at 3:13 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Yes, that sounds right. The history is at > http://www.psubs.org/aboutpsubs/mission/ > > It's been a good long run and I've met some great people. Without trying > to sound too dramatic, I do consider you folks my "brothers". Just a > unique set of circumstances and interest that we share. > > Happy Birthday Psubbers!! > > > On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 02:18:01 PM EST, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sorry poor maths & lack of coffee. should read "97". > Alan > > > On 12/01/2020, at 7:53 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > While clearing out my old files I came across a post that said Psubs > > site was launched on 11 January 1987. Making us 23 today (US time). > > Is that correct Jon! > > I know it went through a few iterations before that, starting as an > interest > > group on a boat building forum. > > Cute dog Hank! Start taking her in & out of the hatch while she is small! > > Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 19:29:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 17:29:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distraction In-Reply-To: <002901d5c8a7$98da3ab0$ca8eb010$@telus.net> References: <002901d5c8a7$98da3ab0$ca8eb010$@telus.net> Message-ID: <9AD005A3-E96A-4C45-803D-BFF344619261@yahoo.ca> Tim Yes the puppy was a long time wish for my wife. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 11, 2020, at 10:50 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ?Wow, very nice, Hank. > Now you will be really busy. Was this little one a Christmas present? > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 4:35 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distraction > > Hi all, work on E3000 has slowed down a bit due to my new little helper > distracting me. Her main job in the shop is to steal parts and play keep > away with them. > Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 11 19:51:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:51:02 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Birthday?? In-Reply-To: <1026689451.11884890.1578777079626@mail.yahoo.com> References: <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0.ref@yahoo.com> <926C6B14-981F-43AD-A011-47287B2E7FD0@yahoo.com> <2799B36F-6AEB-46F2-BB95-0210B9395583@yahoo.com> <1026689451.11884890.1578777079626@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The history I read was about some poor computer nerd who had no interest in submarines but was co-opted by friends in to a level of involvement due to him having a large enough computer to host their site. Then his mates took off & left him carrying the baby! Great effort Jon, much appreciated. Been with the group for 12 years now & really enjoyed the journey & friendships I've made along the way. Alan > On 12/01/2020, at 10:11 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Yes, that sounds right. The history is at http://www.psubs.org/aboutpsubs/mission/ > > It's been a good long run and I've met some great people. Without trying to sound too dramatic, I do consider you folks my "brothers". Just a unique set of circumstances and interest that we share. > > Happy Birthday Psubbers!! > > > On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 02:18:01 PM EST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Sorry poor maths & lack of coffee. should read "97". > Alan > > > On 12/01/2020, at 7:53 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > While clearing out my old files I came across a post that said Psubs > > site was launched on 11 January 1987. Making us 23 today (US time). > > Is that correct Jon! > > I know it went through a few iterations before that, starting as an interest > > group on a boat building forum. > > Cute dog Hank! Start taking her in & out of the hatch while she is small! > > Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 13 19:33:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 17:33:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 cleaning References: <1053191B-D864-439A-B6DB-C0D64C4C2E68.ref@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1053191B-D864-439A-B6DB-C0D64C4C2E68@yahoo.ca> Hi All. I am ready to install my O2 line to the hull penetrator but I need to clean the penetrator. What is the proper product to use. Hank Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 13 21:06:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 02:06:11 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: O2 cleaning In-Reply-To: References: <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you don't already own a copy, pick up a copy of the Oxygen Hacker's Companion, by Vance Harlow: http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html That said, plain carbon steel is a less ideal material for O2 use than is brass or stainless. You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible. To clean parts for O2 use, just avoid the use of solvents and use a hydrocarbon free cleaner. My preference is Orange TKO, but there are many others. Simple Green also seems to be popular. Use as directed, and check both your cleaning brushes and the rinse water with a UV light to ensure that it is coming away clean. Just repeat the cleaning / rinse until it does. To dry, small parts and fittings can dry in ambient air, but tubing, hoses, and more complicated parts with dead spaces will have to be blown dry. This must be done with hydrocarbon-free air (I.e. nitrox quality) or e.g. pure nitrogen, to avoid recontaminating the parts. You want to replace any soft parts in your oxygen system with oxygen compatible materials where necessary (I.e. Viton O-rings and oxygen compatible valve seats), and then use O2 compatible lubricants exclusively. The gold standard for this is CHRISTO-LUBE MCG 111. Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 13, 2020, 15:53, hank pronk < hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote: Hi Sean, I am installing the O2 paediatric regulator in E3000 now. I have a tower valve that accepts the regulator, and the valve screws directly into the hull penetrator. The hull penetrator is a steel nipple. How do you recommend I clean the nipple and fittings? I have an O2 braided ss hose to the tank. The hose is actually from my O2 cascading set up. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 13 21:25:42 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 21:25:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: O2 cleaning In-Reply-To: References: <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Sean, I'm new to the group, but you said in your reply "You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible." Why do you suggest avoiding fast acting valves? Tanks eh! Ian On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:07 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > If you don't already own a copy, pick up a copy of the Oxygen Hacker's > Companion, by Vance Harlow: > > http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html > > That said, plain carbon steel is a less ideal material for O2 use than is > brass or stainless. You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting > valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible. > > To clean parts for O2 use, just avoid the use of solvents and use a > hydrocarbon free cleaner. My preference is Orange TKO, but there are many > others. Simple Green also seems to be popular. Use as directed, and check > both your cleaning brushes and the rinse water with a UV light to ensure > that it is coming away clean. Just repeat the cleaning / rinse until it > does. To dry, small parts and fittings can dry in ambient air, but tubing, > hoses, and more complicated parts with dead spaces will have to be blown > dry. This must be done with hydrocarbon-free air (I.e. nitrox quality) or > e.g. pure nitrogen, to avoid recontaminating the parts. > > You want to replace any soft parts in your oxygen system with oxygen > compatible materials where necessary (I.e. Viton O-rings and oxygen > compatible valve seats), and then use O2 compatible lubricants exclusively. > The gold standard for this is CHRISTO-LUBE MCG 111. > > Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a > PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 13, 2020, 15:53, hank pronk < hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote: > > Hi Sean, > I am installing the O2 paediatric regulator in E3000 now. I have a tower > valve that accepts the regulator, and the valve screws directly into the > hull penetrator. The hull penetrator is a steel nipple. How do you > recommend I clean the nipple and fittings? I have an O2 braided ss hose to > the tank. The hose is actually from my O2 cascading set up. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 13 21:34:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:34:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: O2 cleaning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45E50DF4-662B-448C-BDE9-CD64D349D52C@yahoo.ca> Thanks Sean Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 13, 2020, at 7:26 PM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hey Sean, > I'm new to the group, but you said in your reply "You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible." > Why do you suggest avoiding fast acting valves? > Tanks eh! > Ian > > >> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:07 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> If you don't already own a copy, pick up a copy of the Oxygen Hacker's Companion, by Vance Harlow: >> >> http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html >> >> That said, plain carbon steel is a less ideal material for O2 use than is brass or stainless. You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible. >> >> To clean parts for O2 use, just avoid the use of solvents and use a hydrocarbon free cleaner. My preference is Orange TKO, but there are many others. Simple Green also seems to be popular. Use as directed, and check both your cleaning brushes and the rinse water with a UV light to ensure that it is coming away clean. Just repeat the cleaning / rinse until it does. To dry, small parts and fittings can dry in ambient air, but tubing, hoses, and more complicated parts with dead spaces will have to be blown dry. This must be done with hydrocarbon-free air (I.e. nitrox quality) or e.g. pure nitrogen, to avoid recontaminating the parts. >> >> You want to replace any soft parts in your oxygen system with oxygen compatible materials where necessary (I.e. Viton O-rings and oxygen compatible valve seats), and then use O2 compatible lubricants exclusively. The gold standard for this is CHRISTO-LUBE MCG 111. >> >> Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 13, 2020, 15:53, hank pronk < hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote: >> >> Hi Sean, >> I am installing the O2 paediatric regulator in E3000 now. I have a tower valve that accepts the regulator, and the valve screws directly into the hull penetrator. The hull penetrator is a steel nipple. How do you recommend I clean the nipple and fittings? I have an O2 braided ss hose to the tank. The hose is actually from my O2 cascading set up. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 13 21:49:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 02:49:52 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: O2 cleaning In-Reply-To: References: <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Barring the presence of obvious open sources of ignition, fires in oxygen systems can also occur as a result of localized heating due to adiabatic compression, and to flow phase transitions (I.e. laminar to turbulent). If you, for example, have a dead headed volume downstream of a 1/4" ball valve at zero gauge pressure, and high pressure oxygen upstream, and you open that valve suddenly, the compression of the gas within the downstream volume will generate a lot of heat, which can conceivably cause the spontaneous ignition of any fuels present. Such fuels can include not only residual hydrocarbons from insufficiently cleaned systems, but also the system fittings themselves. Often machined fittings can have thin-walled features (e.g. intersections of drilled holes in elbow fittings), and these locations are at risk of localized heating to the point at which the metal itself begins to burn, which can be catastrophic in the presence of high pressure pure oxygen. Using needle valves allows you much finer control over the rate of pressurization - the idea being that by avoiding fast pressurization rates, the heat from adiabatic compression has time to dissipate from the system plumbing, and the ultimate maximum temperature of the compressing volume is kept lower, reducing the risk of a spontaneous fire. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 13, 2020, 19:25, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey Sean, > I'm new to the group, but you said in your reply "You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible." > Why do you suggest avoiding fast acting valves? > Tanks eh! > Ian > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:07 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> If you don't already own a copy, pick up a copy of the Oxygen Hacker's Companion, by Vance Harlow: >> >> http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html >> >> That said, plain carbon steel is a less ideal material for O2 use than is brass or stainless. You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible. >> >> To clean parts for O2 use, just avoid the use of solvents and use a hydrocarbon free cleaner. My preference is Orange TKO, but there are many others. Simple Green also seems to be popular. Use as directed, and check both your cleaning brushes and the rinse water with a UV light to ensure that it is coming away clean. Just repeat the cleaning / rinse until it does. To dry, small parts and fittings can dry in ambient air, but tubing, hoses, and more complicated parts with dead spaces will have to be blown dry. This must be done with hydrocarbon-free air (I.e. nitrox quality) or e.g. pure nitrogen, to avoid recontaminating the parts. >> >> You want to replace any soft parts in your oxygen system with oxygen compatible materials where necessary (I.e. Viton O-rings and oxygen compatible valve seats), and then use O2 compatible lubricants exclusively. The gold standard for this is CHRISTO-LUBE MCG 111. >> >> Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 13, 2020, 15:53, hank pronk < hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote: >> >> Hi Sean, >> I am installing the O2 paediatric regulator in E3000 now. I have a tower valve that accepts the regulator, and the valve screws directly into the hull penetrator. The hull penetrator is a steel nipple. How do you recommend I clean the nipple and fittings? I have an O2 braided ss hose to the tank. The hose is actually from my O2 cascading set up. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 07:07:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:07:07 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: O2 cleaning In-Reply-To: References: <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Sean You said here. "Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems". You got me slightly worried now. I used ptfe tape on two BSPT joints I have on my O2 system. I was careful to keep the ptfe tape only on the tread, but still. It was just ordinary ptfe tape. They are downstream of an outside mounted O2 clean regulator set to relieve at 14bar max, so its only low pressure in the pipe. Do you think i need to re seal them with something else? Thanks James On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 02:50, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Barring the presence of obvious open sources of ignition, fires in oxygen > systems can also occur as a result of localized heating due to adiabatic > compression, and to flow phase transitions (I.e. laminar to turbulent). If > you, for example, have a dead headed volume downstream of a 1/4" ball valve > at zero gauge pressure, and high pressure oxygen upstream, and you open > that valve suddenly, the compression of the gas within the downstream > volume will generate a lot of heat, which can conceivably cause the > spontaneous ignition of any fuels present. Such fuels can include not only > residual hydrocarbons from insufficiently cleaned systems, but also the > system fittings themselves. Often machined fittings can have thin-walled > features (e.g. intersections of drilled holes in elbow fittings), and these > locations are at risk of localized heating to the point at which the metal > itself begins to burn, which can be catastrophic in the presence of high > pressure pure oxygen. Using needle valves allows you much finer control > over the rate of pressurization - the idea being that by avoiding fast > pressurization rates, the heat from adiabatic compression has time to > dissipate from the system plumbing, and the ultimate maximum temperature of > the compressing volume is kept lower, reducing the risk of a spontaneous > fire. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 13, 2020, 19:25, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hey Sean, > I'm new to the group, but you said in your reply "You also want to avoid > the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves > where possible." > Why do you suggest avoiding fast acting valves? > Tanks eh! > Ian > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:07 PM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> >> If you don't already own a copy, pick up a copy of the Oxygen Hacker's >> Companion, by Vance Harlow: >> >> http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html >> >> That said, plain carbon steel is a less ideal material for O2 use than is >> brass or stainless. You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting >> valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible. >> >> To clean parts for O2 use, just avoid the use of solvents and use a >> hydrocarbon free cleaner. My preference is Orange TKO, but there are many >> others. Simple Green also seems to be popular. Use as directed, and check >> both your cleaning brushes and the rinse water with a UV light to ensure >> that it is coming away clean. Just repeat the cleaning / rinse until it >> does. To dry, small parts and fittings can dry in ambient air, but tubing, >> hoses, and more complicated parts with dead spaces will have to be blown >> dry. This must be done with hydrocarbon-free air (I.e. nitrox quality) or >> e.g. pure nitrogen, to avoid recontaminating the parts. >> >> You want to replace any soft parts in your oxygen system with oxygen >> compatible materials where necessary (I.e. Viton O-rings and oxygen >> compatible valve seats), and then use O2 compatible lubricants exclusively. >> The gold standard for this is CHRISTO-LUBE MCG 111. >> >> Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a >> PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 13, 2020, 15:53, hank pronk < hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote: >> >> Hi Sean, >> I am installing the O2 paediatric regulator in E3000 now. I have a tower >> valve that accepts the regulator, and the valve screws directly into the >> hull penetrator. The hull penetrator is a steel nipple. How do you >> recommend I clean the nipple and fittings? I have an O2 braided ss hose to >> the tank. The hose is actually from my O2 cascading set up. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 08:23:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 13:23:24 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: O2 cleaning In-Reply-To: References: <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: PTFE is fine to use. There are some liquid / paste thread sealants out there which may not be O2 compatible. Sometimes, the liquids have the advantage of being less likely to introduce fouling particles / debris into the system than a tape sealant, but this is largely dependent on technique. If you're careful to avoid wrapping over the end of the fitting with tape, and don't do too many wraps, you'll be fine. Keep in mind that the primary purpose of a PTFE sealant is actually to act as a lubricant, in order to allow greater engagement of the interfering tapered threads at lesser torque. Gap filling the spiral leak path is secondary. There may also be liquid sealants which are okay for oxygen use, but you need to check. On a slight tangent, particulate filters are always a good idea upstream of any critical components, and certainly where you don't have easily actuated manual shutdowns/ overrides. Where I employ certain electronic regulators in gas pressure control systems, I make a point of filtering at 40 microns maximum, and finer is better, though more maintenance intensive. There's nothing more frustrating than breaking down a failed regulator to discover that it failed because it was fouled by a bit of sand, or a bit of PTFE tape. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 14, 2020, 05:07, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Sean > You said here. > "Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems". > > You got me slightly worried now. I used ptfe tape on two BSPT joints I have on my O2 system. I was careful to keep the ptfe tape only on the tread, but still. It was just ordinary ptfe tape. They are downstream of an outside mounted O2 clean regulator set to relieve at 14bar max, so its only low pressure in the pipe. > > Do you think i need to re seal them with something else? > > Thanks > James > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 02:50, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Barring the presence of obvious open sources of ignition, fires in oxygen systems can also occur as a result of localized heating due to adiabatic compression, and to flow phase transitions (I.e. laminar to turbulent). If you, for example, have a dead headed volume downstream of a 1/4" ball valve at zero gauge pressure, and high pressure oxygen upstream, and you open that valve suddenly, the compression of the gas within the downstream volume will generate a lot of heat, which can conceivably cause the spontaneous ignition of any fuels present. Such fuels can include not only residual hydrocarbons from insufficiently cleaned systems, but also the system fittings themselves. Often machined fittings can have thin-walled features (e.g. intersections of drilled holes in elbow fittings), and these locations are at risk of localized heating to the point at which the metal itself begins to burn, which can be catastrophic in the presence of high pressure pure oxygen. Using needle valves allows you much finer control over the rate of pressurization - the idea being that by avoiding fast pressurization rates, the heat from adiabatic compression has time to dissipate from the system plumbing, and the ultimate maximum temperature of the compressing volume is kept lower, reducing the risk of a spontaneous fire. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 13, 2020, 19:25, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hey Sean, >>> I'm new to the group, but you said in your reply "You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible." >>> Why do you suggest avoiding fast acting valves? >>> Tanks eh! >>> Ian >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:07 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> If you don't already own a copy, pick up a copy of the Oxygen Hacker's Companion, by Vance Harlow: >>>> >>>> http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html >>>> >>>> That said, plain carbon steel is a less ideal material for O2 use than is brass or stainless. You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible. >>>> >>>> To clean parts for O2 use, just avoid the use of solvents and use a hydrocarbon free cleaner. My preference is Orange TKO, but there are many others. Simple Green also seems to be popular. Use as directed, and check both your cleaning brushes and the rinse water with a UV light to ensure that it is coming away clean. Just repeat the cleaning / rinse until it does. To dry, small parts and fittings can dry in ambient air, but tubing, hoses, and more complicated parts with dead spaces will have to be blown dry. This must be done with hydrocarbon-free air (I.e. nitrox quality) or e.g. pure nitrogen, to avoid recontaminating the parts. >>>> >>>> You want to replace any soft parts in your oxygen system with oxygen compatible materials where necessary (I.e. Viton O-rings and oxygen compatible valve seats), and then use O2 compatible lubricants exclusively. The gold standard for this is CHRISTO-LUBE MCG 111. >>>> >>>> Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Jan. 13, 2020, 15:53, hank pronk < hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sean, >>>> I am installing the O2 paediatric regulator in E3000 now. I have a tower valve that accepts the regulator, and the valve screws directly into the hull penetrator. The hull penetrator is a steel nipple. How do you recommend I clean the nipple and fittings? I have an O2 braided ss hose to the tank. The hose is actually from my O2 cascading set up. >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 20:16:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:16:33 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 20:20:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:20:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <66F0E5B1-A866-4AAF-950A-D1AA3283C636@yahoo.ca> Brian. Try - 5 f today here in chilly Canada Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 14, 2020, at 6:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hi All, > My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 20:27:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 01:27:54 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <66F0E5B1-A866-4AAF-950A-D1AA3283C636@yahoo.ca> References: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> <66F0E5B1-A866-4AAF-950A-D1AA3283C636@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: -35?C / -31?F here. Count your blessings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 14, 2020, 18:20, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Brian. Try - 5 f today here in chilly Canada > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 14, 2020, at 6:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> ? >> Hi All, >> My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! >> >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 20:34:12 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (JimToddPsub via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:34:12 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <286FEC7A-9ACC-4D26-B9E6-F206B532BB58@aol.com> Brian, Of course Hank, Jon, me and many others sympathize deeply with you for the severe cold you?re having to endure. :) Jim Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 14, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hi All, > My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 20:55:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:55:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35087812-2A19-42C4-BF4F-FE1EC444D882@yahoo.ca> Sean. I saw it was ugly up there. I stay in my shop if it?s past -20C Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 14, 2020, at 6:28 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ?-35?C / -31?F here. Count your blessings. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 14, 2020, 18:20, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian. Try - 5 f today here in chilly Canada > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Jan 14, 2020, at 6:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> ? >> Hi All, >> My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! >> >> Brian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 20:56:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:56:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <286FEC7A-9ACC-4D26-B9E6-F206B532BB58@aol.com> References: <286FEC7A-9ACC-4D26-B9E6-F206B532BB58@aol.com> Message-ID: <2402934F-B7C4-4605-9C7D-6AC47B5E1AA4@yahoo.ca> Jim. It?s a bit cold but there are no mosquitoes Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 14, 2020, at 6:36 PM, JimToddPsub via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ?Brian, > Of course Hank, Jon, me and many others sympathize deeply with you for the severe cold you?re having to endure. :) > Jim > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Jan 14, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> ? >> Hi All, >> My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! >> >> Brian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 21:31:17 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:31:17 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <2402934F-B7C4-4605-9C7D-6AC47B5E1AA4@yahoo.ca> References: <286FEC7A-9ACC-4D26-B9E6-F206B532BB58@aol.com> <2402934F-B7C4-4605-9C7D-6AC47B5E1AA4@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <007a01d5cb4b$de6f4ec0$9b4dec40$@telus.net> Nor bears. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 5:57 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Jim. It?s a bit cold but there are no mosquitoes Hank Sent from my iPhone On Jan 14, 2020, at 6:36 PM, JimToddPsub via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ?Brian, Of course Hank, Jon, me and many others sympathize deeply with you for the severe cold you?re having to endure. :) Jim Sent from my iPhone On Jan 14, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ? Hi All, My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 22:17:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 16:17:16 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <7EBCBEC9-4634-4442-8EDA-FE43D3CB8AEB@yahoo.com> Commiserations Brian, perhaps you could treat yourself to a holiday in Hawaii till the cold spell blows over. You don't want to catch a cold or anything. Have you tried wearing long pants & a jumper? I've heard they work well! Alan > On 15/01/2020, at 2:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 22:37:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:37:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <7EBCBEC9-4634-4442-8EDA-FE43D3CB8AEB@yahoo.com> References: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> <7EBCBEC9-4634-4442-8EDA-FE43D3CB8AEB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008901d5cb55$2c3b4c40$84b1e4c0$@telus.net> FYI Brian, a "jumper" in Australian English is a "sweatshirt" in North American English. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Commiserations Brian, perhaps you could treat yourself to a holiday in Hawaii till the cold spell blows over. You don't want to catch a cold or anything. Have you tried wearing long pants & a jumper? I've heard they work well! Alan On 15/01/2020, at 2:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi All, My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 23:05:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 17:05:27 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <008901d5cb55$2c3b4c40$84b1e4c0$@telus.net> References: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> <7EBCBEC9-4634-4442-8EDA-FE43D3CB8AEB@yahoo.com> <008901d5cb55$2c3b4c40$84b1e4c0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <2ADB2779-8FA8-44BB-9D33-7D610CF1469F@yahoo.com> For our Canadian contingent; A few years ago in Auckland ( my city) we had some tiny flakes of white stuff floating down for a minute. This made the TV news & there was debate amongst weather experts as to whether it was actually snow! In the end they conceded to popular demand & officially designated it as being snow. But I suppose you guys are over the novelty! Alan > On 15/01/2020, at 4:37 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > FYI Brian, a "jumper" in Australian English is a "sweatshirt" in North American English. > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:17 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass > > Commiserations Brian, > perhaps you could treat yourself to a holiday in Hawaii till the cold > spell blows over. You don't want to catch a cold or anything. > Have you tried wearing long pants & a jumper? I've heard they work well! > Alan > > On 15/01/2020, at 2:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 14 23:27:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:27:47 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <2ADB2779-8FA8-44BB-9D33-7D610CF1469F@yahoo.com> References: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> <7EBCBEC9-4634-4442-8EDA-FE43D3CB8AEB@yahoo.com> <008901d5cb55$2c3b4c40$84b1e4c0$@telus.net> <2ADB2779-8FA8-44BB-9D33-7D610CF1469F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009801d5cb5c$24bec710$6e3c5530$@telus.net> That's really cool, Alan. For us the first snowfall of the year is novel, but not welcomed by everyone. However, most of us do snow play really well? at least at one time or another. A few years ago while coming down from the ski hill we met a young couple from Perth who had never seen snow fall. They were totally thrilled with the magic of falling snow during their short visit to BC. Friends of ours from South Africa, who told me what a jumper was, saw snow for the first time when they moved here. At least your South Island gets snow, a saw a documentary once showing an elf walking on top of it while everyone else had to trudge through. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 8:05 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass For our Canadian contingent; A few years ago in Auckland ( my city) we had some tiny flakes of white stuff floating down for a minute. This made the TV news & there was debate amongst weather experts as to whether it was actually snow! In the end they conceded to popular demand & officially designated it as being snow. But I suppose you guys are over the novelty! Alan On 15/01/2020, at 4:37 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: FYI Brian, a "jumper" in Australian English is a "sweatshirt" in North American English. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:17 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Commiserations Brian, perhaps you could treat yourself to a holiday in Hawaii till the cold spell blows over. You don't want to catch a cold or anything. Have you tried wearing long pants & a jumper? I've heard they work well! Alan On 15/01/2020, at 2:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi All, My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 15 01:35:44 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:35:44 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <009801d5cb5c$24bec710$6e3c5530$@telus.net> References: <20200114171633.69292DA7@m0117567.ppops.net> <7EBCBEC9-4634-4442-8EDA-FE43D3CB8AEB@yahoo.com> <008901d5cb55$2c3b4c40$84b1e4c0$@telus.net> <2ADB2779-8FA8-44BB-9D33-7D610CF1469F@yahoo.com> <009801d5cb5c$24bec710$6e3c5530$@telus.net> Message-ID: <9E51D6AD-EAB4-41DC-829C-1A1C6F0BDE01@yahoo.com> Tim, thanks, yes Elfs, Orks, Hobbits, my sister & lots of snow are all down the South Island. We have the nice beaches & good diving in the North Island. Alan > On 15/01/2020, at 5:27 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > That's really cool, Alan. > > For us the first snowfall of the year is novel, but not welcomed by everyone. However, most of us do snow play really well? at least at one time or another. A few years ago while coming down from the ski hill we met a young couple from Perth who had never seen snow fall. They were totally thrilled with the magic of falling snow during their short visit to BC. Friends of ours from South Africa, who told me what a jumper was, saw snow for the first time when they moved here. At least your South Island gets snow, a saw a documentary once showing an elf walking on top of it while everyone else had to trudge through. > > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 8:05 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass > > For our Canadian contingent; > A few years ago in Auckland ( my city) we had some tiny flakes of white stuff > floating down for a minute. This made the TV news & there was debate amongst weather experts as to whether it was actually snow! > In the end they conceded to popular demand & officially designated it as being > snow. But I suppose you guys are over the novelty! > Alan > > > > On 15/01/2020, at 4:37 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > FYI Brian, a "jumper" in Australian English is a "sweatshirt" in North American English. > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:17 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass > > Commiserations Brian, > perhaps you could treat yourself to a holiday in Hawaii till the cold > spell blows over. You don't want to catch a cold or anything. > Have you tried wearing long pants & a jumper? I've heard they work well! > Alan > > On 15/01/2020, at 2:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > My fiber glassing has ground to a halt with this cold weather ! The high today only got up to 61 F ! I'm not cut out for this cold weather ! > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 15 17:26:26 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:26:26 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter Message-ID: OK, This looks interesting: https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ Brian Get Outlook for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 15 19:17:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 16:17:45 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20200115161745.69215132@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 15 19:38:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 13:38:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks useful Brian. Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / pressure proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the surface & get a GPS coordinate. Alan > On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > OK, > > This looks interesting: > > https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ > > Brian > > Get Outlook for Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 15 23:21:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:21:28 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> This does look interesting, Brian. Worth thinking about. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:38 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter Looks useful Brian. Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / pressure proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the surface & get a GPS coordinate. Alan On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: OK, This looks interesting: https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ Brian Get Outlook for Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 16 02:54:04 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 02:54:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> References: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Hello everyone, OEngineering was at CES this year with this product and I had several lengthy discussions with them about their system. So, first I would like to point out that the real focus of this system is for citizen science applications (inexpensive) not for extended dive precision mapping. If this is your application, you would be much better served using a control laptop with external IMU and GNSS devices as the IMU on this product doesn't have the best freerunning accuracy. Secondly, it seemed that what they were really pushing as the technology you are paying for is the app interface. It was unclear from talking with them what interface would be available (API) for downloading raw data on points of interest and continuous tracking outside of this interface. Also, one thing to note is that if you were using this in your sub for datalogging (it requires manual button pressing for POI logging) you would need a GNSS repeater with a bulkhead pass through. Regards, James Foulkes On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:22 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This does look interesting, Brian. > > Worth thinking about. > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:38 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter > > > > Looks useful Brian. > > Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. > > I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / > pressure > > proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. > > If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the > surface > > & get a GPS coordinate. > > Alan > > > On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > OK, > > > > This looks interesting: > > > > > https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ > > > > Brian > > > > Get Outlook for Android > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 16 11:58:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:58:22 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: O2 cleaning In-Reply-To: References: <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1517828964.11019881.1578955984784@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Sean. I think im ok then. I made sure that the tape didnt go into the path of the O2 flow. Also im at low pressure at that point. The only particulate filter I have is part of the final flowmeter and is built into the unit. Thanks for the advice. regards James On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 13:24, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > PTFE is fine to use. There are some liquid / paste thread sealants out > there which may not be O2 compatible. Sometimes, the liquids have the > advantage of being less likely to introduce fouling particles / debris into > the system than a tape sealant, but this is largely dependent on technique. > If you're careful to avoid wrapping over the end of the fitting with tape, > and don't do too many wraps, you'll be fine. Keep in mind that the primary > purpose of a PTFE sealant is actually to act as a lubricant, in order to > allow greater engagement of the interfering tapered threads at lesser > torque. Gap filling the spiral leak path is secondary. There may also be > liquid sealants which are okay for oxygen use, but you need to check. > > On a slight tangent, particulate filters are always a good idea upstream > of any critical components, and certainly where you don't have easily > actuated manual shutdowns/ overrides. Where I employ certain electronic > regulators in gas pressure control systems, I make a point of filtering at > 40 microns maximum, and finer is better, though more maintenance intensive. > There's nothing more frustrating than breaking down a failed regulator to > discover that it failed because it was fouled by a bit of sand, or a bit of > PTFE tape. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 14, 2020, 05:07, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi Sean > You said here. > "Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use a > PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems". > > You got me slightly worried now. I used ptfe tape on two BSPT joints I > have on my O2 system. I was careful to keep the ptfe tape only on the > tread, but still. It was just ordinary ptfe tape. They are downstream of > an outside mounted O2 clean regulator set to relieve at 14bar max, so its > only low pressure in the pipe. > > Do you think i need to re seal them with something else? > > Thanks > James > > > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 02:50, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Barring the presence of obvious open sources of ignition, fires in oxygen >> systems can also occur as a result of localized heating due to adiabatic >> compression, and to flow phase transitions (I.e. laminar to turbulent). If >> you, for example, have a dead headed volume downstream of a 1/4" ball valve >> at zero gauge pressure, and high pressure oxygen upstream, and you open >> that valve suddenly, the compression of the gas within the downstream >> volume will generate a lot of heat, which can conceivably cause the >> spontaneous ignition of any fuels present. Such fuels can include not only >> residual hydrocarbons from insufficiently cleaned systems, but also the >> system fittings themselves. Often machined fittings can have thin-walled >> features (e.g. intersections of drilled holes in elbow fittings), and these >> locations are at risk of localized heating to the point at which the metal >> itself begins to burn, which can be catastrophic in the presence of high >> pressure pure oxygen. Using needle valves allows you much finer control >> over the rate of pressurization - the idea being that by avoiding fast >> pressurization rates, the heat from adiabatic compression has time to >> dissipate from the system plumbing, and the ultimate maximum temperature of >> the compressing volume is kept lower, reducing the risk of a spontaneous >> fire. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 13, 2020, 19:25, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hey Sean, >> I'm new to the group, but you said in your reply "You also want to avoid >> the use of any fast acting valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves >> where possible." >> Why do you suggest avoiding fast acting valves? >> Tanks eh! >> Ian >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:07 PM Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> >>> If you don't already own a copy, pick up a copy of the Oxygen Hacker's >>> Companion, by Vance Harlow: >>> >>> http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html >>> >>> That said, plain carbon steel is a less ideal material for O2 use than >>> is brass or stainless. You also want to avoid the use of any fast acting >>> valves in oxygen systems. Use needle valves where possible. >>> >>> To clean parts for O2 use, just avoid the use of solvents and use a >>> hydrocarbon free cleaner. My preference is Orange TKO, but there are many >>> others. Simple Green also seems to be popular. Use as directed, and check >>> both your cleaning brushes and the rinse water with a UV light to ensure >>> that it is coming away clean. Just repeat the cleaning / rinse until it >>> does. To dry, small parts and fittings can dry in ambient air, but tubing, >>> hoses, and more complicated parts with dead spaces will have to be blown >>> dry. This must be done with hydrocarbon-free air (I.e. nitrox quality) or >>> e.g. pure nitrogen, to avoid recontaminating the parts. >>> >>> You want to replace any soft parts in your oxygen system with oxygen >>> compatible materials where necessary (I.e. Viton O-rings and oxygen >>> compatible valve seats), and then use O2 compatible lubricants exclusively. >>> The gold standard for this is CHRISTO-LUBE MCG 111. >>> >>> Finally, if you're assembling any tapered thread connections (NPT), use >>> a PTFE or other thread sealant suitable for oxygen systems. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Jan. 13, 2020, 15:53, hank pronk < hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sean, >>> I am installing the O2 paediatric regulator in E3000 now. I have a >>> tower valve that accepts the regulator, and the valve screws directly into >>> the hull penetrator. The hull penetrator is a steel nipple. How do you >>> recommend I clean the nipple and fittings? I have an O2 braided ss hose to >>> the tank. The hose is actually from my O2 cascading set up. >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 16 18:24:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 12:24:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: References: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <8A60F44D-C9E7-4C7D-BE4B-AFE668550AEB@yahoo.com> Thanks for the insight into their product James. One of the problems is getting the GPS signal down to the sub, & I have been looking at this company ..... https://dspcommgen2.com/aquatrans-underwater-acoustic-dunking-hydrophone-transducer/ for data transfer transducers & modems. They are reasonably inexpensive & are based in Bangkok. BTW you seem to know your stuff, are you involved professionally in that area or is it just an interest? Regards Alan > On 16/01/2020, at 8:54 PM, J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > OEngineering was at CES this year with this product and I had several lengthy discussions with them about their system. So, first I would like to point out that the real focus of this system is for citizen science applications (inexpensive) not for extended dive precision mapping. If this is your application, you would be much better served using a control laptop with external IMU and GNSS devices as the IMU on this product doesn't have the best freerunning accuracy. Secondly, it seemed that what they were really pushing as the technology you are paying for is the app interface. It was unclear from talking with them what interface would be available (API) for downloading raw data on points of interest and continuous tracking outside of this interface. Also, one thing to note is that if you were using this in your sub for datalogging (it requires manual button pressing for POI logging) you would need a GNSS repeater with a bulkhead pass through. > > Regards, > James Foulkes > >> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:22 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> This does look interesting, Brian. >> >> Worth thinking about. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:38 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter >> >> >> >> Looks useful Brian. >> >> Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. >> >> I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / pressure >> >> proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. >> >> If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the surface >> >> & get a GPS coordinate. >> >> Alan >> >> >> On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> OK, >> >> >> >> This looks interesting: >> >> >> >> https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 17 02:38:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=98ystein_Skarholm?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:38:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: <8A60F44D-C9E7-4C7D-BE4B-AFE668550AEB@yahoo.com> References: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> <8A60F44D-C9E7-4C7D-BE4B-AFE668550AEB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Du you know the price of these units ? This underwater GPS unit from Blue Robotics is also an affordable solution. It should be possible to tweek the system into reverse, so that the position signal can be sent down to the sub acoustically. https://bluerobotics.com/product-category/sensors-sonars-cameras/underwater-gps/ fre. 17. jan. 2020 kl. 00:25 skrev Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Thanks for the insight into their product James. > One of the problems is getting the GPS signal down to the sub, & > I have been looking at this company ..... > > https://dspcommgen2.com/aquatrans-underwater-acoustic-dunking-hydrophone-transducer/ > for data transfer transducers & modems. > They are reasonably inexpensive & are based in Bangkok. > BTW you seem to know your stuff, are you involved professionally in that > area > or is it just an interest? > Regards Alan > > > > On 16/01/2020, at 8:54 PM, J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > OEngineering was at CES this year with this product and I had several > lengthy discussions with them about their system. So, first I would like > to point out that the real focus of this system is for citizen science > applications (inexpensive) not for extended dive precision mapping. If > this is your application, you would be much better served using a control > laptop with external IMU and GNSS devices as the IMU on this product > doesn't have the best freerunning accuracy. Secondly, it seemed that what > they were really pushing as the technology you are paying for is the app > interface. It was unclear from talking with them what interface would be > available (API) for downloading raw data on points of interest and > continuous tracking outside of this interface. Also, one thing to note is > that if you were using this in your sub for datalogging (it requires manual > button pressing for POI logging) you would need a GNSS repeater with a > bulkhead pass through. > > Regards, > James Foulkes > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:22 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> This does look interesting, Brian. >> >> Worth thinking about. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:38 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter >> >> >> >> Looks useful Brian. >> >> Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. >> >> I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / >> pressure >> >> proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. >> >> If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the >> surface >> >> & get a GPS coordinate. >> >> Alan >> >> >> On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> OK, >> >> >> >> This looks interesting: >> >> >> >> >> https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 17 03:54:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 21:54:50 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: References: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> <8A60F44D-C9E7-4C7D-BE4B-AFE668550AEB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <08E79FE7-A1EB-4E74-BE1D-314DE4349662@yahoo.com> Hello Oystein, I have sent a price enquiry for the modem & transducer. I had seen somewhere an indicative price of around $1000 for the modem. These modems transmit on several band widths simultaneously to gain more Reliability & have a range of 3k. I have seen the blue robotics product. They are very helpful & would probably Taylor anything to your needs. Alan > On 17/01/2020, at 8:38 PM, ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Du you know the price of these units ? > This underwater GPS unit from Blue Robotics is also an affordable solution. It should be possible to tweek the system into reverse, so that the position signal can be sent down to the sub acoustically. > > https://bluerobotics.com/product-category/sensors-sonars-cameras/underwater-gps/ > >> fre. 17. jan. 2020 kl. 00:25 skrev Alan via Personal_Submersibles : >> Thanks for the insight into their product James. >> One of the problems is getting the GPS signal down to the sub, & >> I have been looking at this company ..... >> https://dspcommgen2.com/aquatrans-underwater-acoustic-dunking-hydrophone-transducer/ >> for data transfer transducers & modems. >> They are reasonably inexpensive & are based in Bangkok. >> BTW you seem to know your stuff, are you involved professionally in that area >> or is it just an interest? >> Regards Alan >> >> >> >>> On 16/01/2020, at 8:54 PM, J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> OEngineering was at CES this year with this product and I had several lengthy discussions with them about their system. So, first I would like to point out that the real focus of this system is for citizen science applications (inexpensive) not for extended dive precision mapping. If this is your application, you would be much better served using a control laptop with external IMU and GNSS devices as the IMU on this product doesn't have the best freerunning accuracy. Secondly, it seemed that what they were really pushing as the technology you are paying for is the app interface. It was unclear from talking with them what interface would be available (API) for downloading raw data on points of interest and continuous tracking outside of this interface. Also, one thing to note is that if you were using this in your sub for datalogging (it requires manual button pressing for POI logging) you would need a GNSS repeater with a bulkhead pass through. >>> >>> Regards, >>> James Foulkes >>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:22 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> This does look interesting, Brian. >>>> >>>> Worth thinking about. >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:38 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Looks useful Brian. >>>> >>>> Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. >>>> >>>> I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / pressure >>>> >>>> proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. >>>> >>>> If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the surface >>>> >>>> & get a GPS coordinate. >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> OK, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This looks interesting: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get Outlook for Android >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 17 06:58:02 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=98ystein_Skarholm?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 12:58:02 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: <08E79FE7-A1EB-4E74-BE1D-314DE4349662@yahoo.com> References: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> <8A60F44D-C9E7-4C7D-BE4B-AFE668550AEB@yahoo.com> <08E79FE7-A1EB-4E74-BE1D-314DE4349662@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Looking forward to find out more about the cost for that system. 3K meter and omnidirectional.....sounds pretty expensive. fre. 17. jan. 2020 kl. 09:55 skrev Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Hello Oystein, > I have sent a price enquiry for the modem & transducer. > I had seen somewhere an indicative price of around $1000 for the modem. > These modems transmit on several band widths simultaneously to gain more > Reliability & have a range of 3k. > I have seen the blue robotics product. They are very helpful & would > probably > Taylor anything to your needs. > Alan > > On 17/01/2020, at 8:38 PM, ?ystein Skarholm via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Du you know the price of these units ? > This underwater GPS unit from Blue Robotics is also an affordable > solution. It should be possible to tweek the system into reverse, so that > the position signal can be sent down to the sub acoustically. > > > https://bluerobotics.com/product-category/sensors-sonars-cameras/underwater-gps/ > > fre. 17. jan. 2020 kl. 00:25 skrev Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > >> Thanks for the insight into their product James. >> One of the problems is getting the GPS signal down to the sub, & >> I have been looking at this company ..... >> >> https://dspcommgen2.com/aquatrans-underwater-acoustic-dunking-hydrophone-transducer/ >> for data transfer transducers & modems. >> They are reasonably inexpensive & are based in Bangkok. >> BTW you seem to know your stuff, are you involved professionally in that >> area >> or is it just an interest? >> Regards Alan >> >> >> >> On 16/01/2020, at 8:54 PM, J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> OEngineering was at CES this year with this product and I had several >> lengthy discussions with them about their system. So, first I would like >> to point out that the real focus of this system is for citizen science >> applications (inexpensive) not for extended dive precision mapping. If >> this is your application, you would be much better served using a control >> laptop with external IMU and GNSS devices as the IMU on this product >> doesn't have the best freerunning accuracy. Secondly, it seemed that what >> they were really pushing as the technology you are paying for is the app >> interface. It was unclear from talking with them what interface would be >> available (API) for downloading raw data on points of interest and >> continuous tracking outside of this interface. Also, one thing to note is >> that if you were using this in your sub for datalogging (it requires manual >> button pressing for POI logging) you would need a GNSS repeater with a >> bulkhead pass through. >> >> Regards, >> James Foulkes >> >> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:22 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> This does look interesting, Brian. >>> >>> Worth thinking about. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via >>> Personal_Submersibles >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:38 PM >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter >>> >>> >>> >>> Looks useful Brian. >>> >>> Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. >>> >>> I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / >>> pressure >>> >>> proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. >>> >>> If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the >>> surface >>> >>> & get a GPS coordinate. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> OK, >>> >>> >>> >>> This looks interesting: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> Get Outlook for Android >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen > ?ystein Skarholm > 91369599 > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Vennlig hilsen ?ystein Skarholm 91369599 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 17 15:40:21 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 20:40:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome References: <2124926025.437266.1579293621310.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2124926025.437266.1579293621310@mail.yahoo.com> Looked on Alibaba to see what China offered in the way of cast acrylic domes.?Was contacted as they track your search history.?Have doubts about the firm already as below is a picture of my contact!?Alan Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20200118_092950_com.alibaba.intl.android.apps.poseidon.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 863525 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 17 16:38:07 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 13:38:07 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome In-Reply-To: <2124926025.437266.1579293621310@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2124926025.437266.1579293621310.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2124926025.437266.1579293621310@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201d5cd7e$68f5a4c0$3ae0ee40$@telus.net> Whoever made her t-shirt can't spell. But she is just the "teenaged girl across the counter", not the seasoned technician. You don't know the quality until it's on your bench. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 12:40 PM To: psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome Looked on Alibaba to see what China offered in the way of cast acrylic domes. Was contacted as they track your search history. Have doubts about the firm already as below is a picture of my contact! Alan Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 863525 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 17 18:43:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 12:43:55 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome In-Reply-To: <000201d5cd7e$68f5a4c0$3ae0ee40$@telus.net> References: <2124926025.437266.1579293621310.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2124926025.437266.1579293621310@mail.yahoo.com> <000201d5cd7e$68f5a4c0$3ae0ee40$@telus.net> Message-ID: Tim, some of those young girls know their stuff but communication looks like It may be difficult in this case. With regard to an acrylic dome, you would have to be pretty specific & see material certification & question them about the process first. Then check the dome with a spectrometer for any stress after forming & then pressure test it. It would almost pay to visit first. I had 11 motors built in to my specs, with a 316 shaft etc & the manufacturer did a really good job. Alan > On 18/01/2020, at 10:38 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Whoever made her t-shirt can't spell. But she is just the "teenaged girl across the counter", not the seasoned technician. You don't know the quality until it's on your bench. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 12:40 PM > To: psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome > > Looked on Alibaba to see what China offered in the way of cast acrylic domes. > Was contacted as they track your search history. > Have doubts about the firm already as below is a picture of my contact! > Alan > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 17 20:06:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 17:06:20 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome In-Reply-To: References: <2124926025.437266.1579293621310.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2124926025.437266.1579293621310@mail.yahoo.com> <000201d5cd7e$68f5a4c0$3ae0ee40$@telus.net> Message-ID: <001b01d5cd9b$7fc5c4b0$7f514e10$@telus.net> Thanks, Alan. It would be interesting to hear the specifications under which your new motors were manufactured. Could they be something we could all use as a source? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 3:44 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome Tim, some of those young girls know their stuff but communication looks like It may be difficult in this case. With regard to an acrylic dome, you would have to be pretty specific & see material certification & question them about the process first. Then check the dome with a spectrometer for any stress after forming & then pressure test it. It would almost pay to visit first. I had 11 motors built in to my specs, with a 316 shaft etc & the manufacturer did a really good job. Alan On 18/01/2020, at 10:38 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Whoever made her t-shirt can't spell. But she is just the "teenaged girl across the counter", not the seasoned technician. You don't know the quality until it's on your bench. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 12:40 PM To: psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome Looked on Alibaba to see what China offered in the way of cast acrylic domes. Was contacted as they track your search history. Have doubts about the firm already as below is a picture of my contact! Alan Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 17 21:34:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 15:34:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome In-Reply-To: <001b01d5cd9b$7fc5c4b0$7f514e10$@telus.net> References: <2124926025.437266.1579293621310.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2124926025.437266.1579293621310@mail.yahoo.com> <000201d5cd7e$68f5a4c0$3ae0ee40$@telus.net> <001b01d5cd9b$7fc5c4b0$7f514e10$@telus.net> Message-ID: <819C44C2-38CE-4419-B81E-81F1DE10425D@yahoo.com> Tim, I had been interested in making my own brushless underwater thruster as there wasn't anything cheap on the market around the 2hp size I wanted. Brushless have more torque are more economical & better suited to oil compensating than brushed, & I am wanting them for a 500ft depth. I have used 6374 (dimensions in mm) brushless hobby motors wound to 60kv ( rpm per volt ) for higher torque. I wanted to avoid gearing. There is a major manufacturer ( Sunny Sky ) that I approached. I started with a product they made that was a bit more substantial, having a can bearing on it. I had previously trialed another 6374 motor without can bearing & decided it needed one. They put a 316 stainless shaft in it to my specs with Circlip groves cut in it. They machined the back of the motor to let the wires comes straight out the back rather than top. They also put a hall sensor board in so I could run it sensored. And as mentioned wound it with thinner wire. Cost less than $100 each. I have bearings in my housing that take the axial load. Am compensating with 5cst silicone oil so should be good for the motor bearings. In tests it was above average with regards to commercial motors as far as thrust per Watt was concerned. Have more tests to do, but I have a video of it powering my inflatable on my Facebook page somewhere. Cheers > On 18/01/2020, at 2:06 PM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks, Alan. > It would be interesting to hear the specifications under which your new motors were manufactured. Could they be something we could all use as a source? > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 3:44 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome > > Tim, > some of those young girls know their stuff but communication looks like > It may be difficult in this case. > With regard to an acrylic dome, you would have to be pretty specific & > see material certification & question them about the process first. Then > check the dome with a spectrometer for any stress after forming & then > pressure test it. > It would almost pay to visit first. > I had 11 motors built in to my specs, with a 316 shaft etc & the manufacturer did > a really good job. > Alan > > > > > On 18/01/2020, at 10:38 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Whoever made her t-shirt can't spell. But she is just the "teenaged girl across the counter", not the seasoned technician. You don't know the quality until it's on your bench. > Tim > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 12:40 PM > To: psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic Dome > > Looked on Alibaba to see what China offered in the way of cast acrylic domes. > Was contacted as they track your search history. > Have doubts about the firm already as below is a picture of my contact! > Alan > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 19 14:57:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:57:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: <8A60F44D-C9E7-4C7D-BE4B-AFE668550AEB@yahoo.com> References: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> <8A60F44D-C9E7-4C7D-BE4B-AFE668550AEB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, Yes, I deal with geolocation and tracking problems for work. Mostly this is on the land or in the air, but my personal interests carry into the water. The problem that you face is how to provide multiple reference paths to the GPS receiver. DSP-Comm simplifies the problem by only transmitting the range to the base station (deck unit). If you want a better solution you would implement something similar to a LORAN-C network. More simply you could have a modem on your deck that receives in two different frequency bands so you can perform attenuation ranging on different frequencies for improved accuracy and then triangulate the location of you underwater asset (the longer the baseline the better - a hydrophone off the bow and stern). If you want you could still have a transmit hydrophone like DSP-Comm supplies for full duplex communications that also transmits current location to the sub. Regards, James On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 6:25 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks for the insight into their product James. > One of the problems is getting the GPS signal down to the sub, & > I have been looking at this company ..... > > https://dspcommgen2.com/aquatrans-underwater-acoustic-dunking-hydrophone-transducer/ > for data transfer transducers & modems. > They are reasonably inexpensive & are based in Bangkok. > BTW you seem to know your stuff, are you involved professionally in that > area > or is it just an interest? > Regards Alan > > > > On 16/01/2020, at 8:54 PM, J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > OEngineering was at CES this year with this product and I had several > lengthy discussions with them about their system. So, first I would like > to point out that the real focus of this system is for citizen science > applications (inexpensive) not for extended dive precision mapping. If > this is your application, you would be much better served using a control > laptop with external IMU and GNSS devices as the IMU on this product > doesn't have the best freerunning accuracy. Secondly, it seemed that what > they were really pushing as the technology you are paying for is the app > interface. It was unclear from talking with them what interface would be > available (API) for downloading raw data on points of interest and > continuous tracking outside of this interface. Also, one thing to note is > that if you were using this in your sub for datalogging (it requires manual > button pressing for POI logging) you would need a GNSS repeater with a > bulkhead pass through. > > Regards, > James Foulkes > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:22 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> This does look interesting, Brian. >> >> Worth thinking about. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: >> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:38 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter >> >> >> >> Looks useful Brian. >> >> Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. >> >> I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / >> pressure >> >> proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. >> >> If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the >> surface >> >> & get a GPS coordinate. >> >> Alan >> >> >> On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> OK, >> >> >> >> This looks interesting: >> >> >> >> >> https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 20 02:03:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 20:03:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter In-Reply-To: References: <001c01d5cc24$6d4eafe0$47ec0fa0$@telus.net> <8A60F44D-C9E7-4C7D-BE4B-AFE668550AEB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7CAA6B91-A5AD-45A2-BC88-0335785C5444@yahoo.com> Thanks James, if you have telemetry via data modems you could transmit depth from the submersible to the base station & then ascertain distance from the signal time. This would leave the sub positioned somewhere on the edge of a circular plane. You would only need direction. Perhaps a sonar at the base station that was mounted on a 3 axis gimbal and was then angled toward the perimeter of the circle & rotated till it picked up the direction. Depth, distance, direction! Then the GPS signal picked up by the base station could be transmitted to the submersible with adjustments based on its location in relation to the base station. This would also give the position of the base station to the submersible. Of course a support boat could always follow the submersible to gain greater accuracy. Part 2... Have a boat depth sounder / chart plotter on the submersible & hack it so that you could send the adjusted GPS signal from the base station in to the chart plotter. That way you could monitor your path on screen, put in way points, do grid searches etc. A bigger problem would be recording your depth on that chart. Although depth and location could be recorded separately. Further thoughts are to add accelerometer, gyro & magnetometer to the base station to adjust for wave motion. And maybe mount the submersibles transducer on a 3 axis gimbal so that a narrower transmission beam could be used. I had also thought of a small surface float with 4 thrusters on it as the base station. Have been building a hex copter & am getting ideas from it. You could send data from the submersibles motor control stick giving the direction & speed of the submersible so that the float could anticipate the submersibles movements & move accordingly. Any thoughts on this? Cheers Alan > On 20/01/2020, at 8:57 AM, J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > Yes, I deal with geolocation and tracking problems for work. Mostly this is on the land or in the air, but my personal interests carry into the water. > > The problem that you face is how to provide multiple reference paths to the GPS receiver. DSP-Comm simplifies the problem by only transmitting the range to the base station (deck unit). If you want a better solution you would implement something similar to a LORAN-C network. More simply you could have a modem on your deck that receives in two different frequency bands so you can perform attenuation ranging on different frequencies for improved accuracy and then triangulate the location of you underwater asset (the longer the baseline the better - a hydrophone off the bow and stern). If you want you could still have a transmit hydrophone like DSP-Comm supplies for full duplex communications that also transmits current location to the sub. > > Regards, > James > > >> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 6:25 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks for the insight into their product James. >> One of the problems is getting the GPS signal down to the sub, & >> I have been looking at this company ..... >> https://dspcommgen2.com/aquatrans-underwater-acoustic-dunking-hydrophone-transducer/ >> for data transfer transducers & modems. >> They are reasonably inexpensive & are based in Bangkok. >> BTW you seem to know your stuff, are you involved professionally in that area >> or is it just an interest? >> Regards Alan >> >> >> >>> On 16/01/2020, at 8:54 PM, J. Foulkes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> OEngineering was at CES this year with this product and I had several lengthy discussions with them about their system. So, first I would like to point out that the real focus of this system is for citizen science applications (inexpensive) not for extended dive precision mapping. If this is your application, you would be much better served using a control laptop with external IMU and GNSS devices as the IMU on this product doesn't have the best freerunning accuracy. Secondly, it seemed that what they were really pushing as the technology you are paying for is the app interface. It was unclear from talking with them what interface would be available (API) for downloading raw data on points of interest and continuous tracking outside of this interface. Also, one thing to note is that if you were using this in your sub for datalogging (it requires manual button pressing for POI logging) you would need a GNSS repeater with a bulkhead pass through. >>> >>> Regards, >>> James Foulkes >>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:22 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> This does look interesting, Brian. >>>> >>>> Worth thinking about. >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:38 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D dive recording, kickstarter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Looks useful Brian. >>>> >>>> Some sort of mapping is definitely useful. >>>> >>>> I have just been looking at GPS receivers to see how they can be water / pressure >>>> >>>> proofed. I think a GPS system would be the bare minimum. >>>> >>>> If you found a treasure chest you could at least head straight to the surface >>>> >>>> & get a GPS coordinate. >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16/01/2020, at 11:26 AM, Brian Hughes via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> OK, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This looks interesting: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://newatlas.com/outdoors/brizo-3d-scuba-dive-maps/?fbclid=IwAR0bwSGSy8zlABzonbS9PO4M-hyca94ADtn57E7YlccucUaqQGz3WNFqYBQ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get Outlook for Android >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 22 17:33:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 22:33:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1764749562.2788200.1579732408079@mail.yahoo.com> HI All,My son "Anthony" is making a bunch of video's from our trips to Montana and California. ?Here is the first one,?Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: marta duffek To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 3:23:09 PM MSTSubject: video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1jYK0lQLIRZSIWWV3kSkJyyickx_ty2XhZ9DSA9u80Frk4UDIzQY-gQnk&h=AT2_Bfx6gcZWWYrW0PQaxYdeX9Vkc43_Kyzi3GHlT6UtbQ5crhjZsOUOI7TQt53hpTy0mfPmFLkRwvLe6svu9wwakqRLsRZ_pobVKek_I9ZArpxZXPNARqnSZUfi_hDPrBZD6J1e7vM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 22 17:43:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 14:43:39 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video Message-ID: <1033047365.3159.1579733019913@wamui-oscar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 22 18:03:20 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 23:03:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video In-Reply-To: <1033047365.3159.1579733019913@wamui-oscar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1033047365.3159.1579733019913@wamui-oscar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2042727746.2808465.1579734200693@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Ian, and thanks again for letting us use your submarine. ?Hank On Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 3:43:53 PM MST, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Fantastic!? Great video! -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Jan 22, 2020 2:33 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video HI All,My son "Anthony" is making a bunch of video's from our trips to Montana and California. ?Here is the first one,?Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: marta duffek To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 3:23:09 PM MSTSubject: video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1jYK0lQLIRZSIWWV3kSkJyyickx_ty2XhZ9DSA9u80Frk4UDIzQY-gQnk&h=AT2_Bfx6gcZWWYrW0PQaxYdeX9Vkc43_Kyzi3GHlT6UtbQ5crhjZsOUOI7TQt53hpTy0mfPmFLkRwvLe6svu9wwakqRLsRZ_pobVKek_I9ZArpxZXPNARqnSZUfi_hDPrBZD6J1e7vM _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 22 18:16:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 15:16:16 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video In-Reply-To: <1764749562.2788200.1579732408079@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1764749562.2788200.1579732408079@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, This looks great! Cant wait to see the next set of videos. Kinda nice to relive the expedition. Thanks for letting me have second seat for the week. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 2:34 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > HI All, > My son "Anthony" is making a bunch of video's from our trips to Montana > and California. Here is the first one, > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > *From:* marta duffek > *To:* "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 3:23:09 PM MST > *Subject:* video > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be > > https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1jYK0lQLIRZSIWWV3kSkJyyickx_ty2XhZ9DSA9u80Frk4UDIzQY-gQnk&h=AT2_Bfx6gcZWWYrW0PQaxYdeX9Vkc43_Kyzi3GHlT6UtbQ5crhjZsOUOI7TQt53hpTy0mfPmFLkRwvLe6svu9wwakqRLsRZ_pobVKek_I9ZArpxZXPNARqnSZUfi_hDPrBZD6J1e7vM > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 22 19:11:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 16:11:43 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video In-Reply-To: <1764749562.2788200.1579732408079@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1764749562.2788200.1579732408079@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401d5d181$b29fa150$17dee3f0$@telus.net> Very nice, Hank, David, Cliff. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 2:33 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video HI All, My son "Anthony" is making a bunch of video's from our trips to Montana and California. Here is the first one, Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: marta duffek > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca " > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 3:23:09 PM MST Subject: video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs &feature=youtu.be https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs &feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1jYK0lQLIRZSIWWV3kSkJyyickx_ty2XhZ9DSA9u80Frk4UDIzQY-gQnk&h=AT2_Bfx6gcZWWYrW0PQaxYdeX9Vkc43_Kyzi3GHlT6UtbQ5crhjZsOUOI7TQt53hpTy0mfPmFLkRwvLe6svu9wwakqRLsRZ_pobVKek_I9ZArpxZXPNARqnSZUfi_hDPrBZD6J1e7vM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 22 20:35:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 01:35:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video References: <2019453301.28198.1579743322738.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2019453301.28198.1579743322738@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, please pass along my thanks to Anthony for editing this video.? He did a great job.? Looking forward to whatever else he comes up with. Big thanks to Dave Colombo for taking all the video at the Expedition and archiving all the video. For those that have not seen it, the Flathead Lake Bio Station did a short teaser video on the night dive. 2019 Flathead Lake Submarine Footage Teaser | | | | | | | | | | | 2019 Flathead Lake Submarine Footage Teaser There?s something in the water.... It may look like snowfall, but the dancing flecks caught on the video below a... | | | On Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 04:34:37 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI All,My son "Anthony" is making a bunch of video's from our trips to Montana and California. ?Here is the first one,?Hank ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: marta duffek To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 3:23:09 PM MSTSubject: video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1jYK0lQLIRZSIWWV3kSkJyyickx_ty2XhZ9DSA9u80Frk4UDIzQY-gQnk&h=AT2_Bfx6gcZWWYrW0PQaxYdeX9Vkc43_Kyzi3GHlT6UtbQ5crhjZsOUOI7TQt53hpTy0mfPmFLkRwvLe6svu9wwakqRLsRZ_pobVKek_I9ZArpxZXPNARqnSZUfi_hDPrBZD6J1e7vM _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 22 21:14:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 18:14:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video Message-ID: <20200122181440.692BB78F@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 22 21:40:01 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Adam Lawrence via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 20:40:01 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: video In-Reply-To: <1764749562.2788200.1579732408079@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1764749562.2788200.1579732408079@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <96520F97-58FD-4EDF-BA76-95EC30788CD0@gmail.com> Thanks for doing this and placing it on YouTube, looking forward to more. Adam > On Jan 22, 2020, at 4:34 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > HI All, > My son "Anthony" is making a bunch of video's from our trips to Montana and California. Here is the first one, > Hank > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: marta duffek > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 3:23:09 PM MST > Subject: video > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be > https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBRvju6cSs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1jYK0lQLIRZSIWWV3kSkJyyickx_ty2XhZ9DSA9u80Frk4UDIzQY-gQnk&h=AT2_Bfx6gcZWWYrW0PQaxYdeX9Vkc43_Kyzi3GHlT6UtbQ5crhjZsOUOI7TQt53hpTy0mfPmFLkRwvLe6svu9wwakqRLsRZ_pobVKek_I9ZArpxZXPNARqnSZUfi_hDPrBZD6J1e7vM > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 16:20:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 14:20:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0848.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 628903 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 16:54:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 11:54:23 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Hank, that's some impressive fiberglass work! did you do that yourself? I am working on my MBT's now and hope they come out that smooth looking. Rick On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 11:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled > enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 17:02:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 22:02:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1793871931.22761.1579903347875@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick,Yes I did the glass work. ?When I left school, okay they kicked me out lol. ?I worked in a body shop and became a body man, and painter, I even owned a body shop for 5 years. ?I hated it. ?It is still a bit rough but it will be gone over one more time once I am finished.Hank On Friday, January 24, 2020, 2:54:51 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, that's some impressive fiberglass work! did you do that yourself? I am working on my MBT's now and hope they come out that smooth looking.Rick On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 11:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 17:32:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 14:32:36 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> Hank, In notice that you have the thruster horizontal. I find them to be very tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 18:06:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:06:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <678546237.88728.1579907212362@mail.yahoo.com> Tim. The trusters can slide in the mount so they are mounted close to centre of gravity, not that it matters because the mounts are very strong. ?One nice thing about this sub is that it needs a lot of weight at the back, so I can use all the steel I want. ?Now the front is another story. ?I have to keep the front on a Jenny Craig diet program.Hank On Friday, January 24, 2020, 3:32:53 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, In notice that you have the thruster horizontal.? I find them to be very tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 17:21:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:21:41 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Hank I originally gave the job to a guy who does glass work for a living along with my Styrofoam mold that I had spent many many hours fairing out and he failed to use a mold release that was for Styrofoam and ended up having to pick the Styrofoam mold out piece by piece so he was not able to use it to make the second tank and he for some reason had only laid up two layers of glass before wrecking the mold so I went and got it from him and will finish them myself. I have worked with glass before but don't enjoy it. I might take them to a body shop here to have them do a gel coat so they look pretty. Hard to find good help on this Island! Rick On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > > In notice that you have the thruster horizontal. I find them to be very > tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking > up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? > > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled > enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 18:29:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:29:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1290868302.106999.1579908545110@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,I am no expert because I hate doing it but I don't use a release agent, instead I cover the part with red Tuk Tape used to tape ?poly together. ?Fiberglass will not stick to it. ?I made the cowl for Gamma's pod that way. ?I covered the steel panel with tape and laid the glass on that, and it popped right off. ?You should put saddle tanks on anyways ;-)? Hank On Friday, January 24, 2020, 4:09:28 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HankI originally?gave the job to a guy who does glass work for a living along with my Styrofoam mold that I had spent many many hours fairing out and he failed to use a mold release that was for Styrofoam and ended up having to pick the Styrofoam mold out piece by piece so he was not able to use it to make the second tank and he for some reason had only laid up two layers of glass before wrecking the mold so I went and got it from him and will finish them myself. I have worked with glass before but don't enjoy it. I might take them to a body shop here to have them do a gel coat so they look pretty. Hard to find good help on this Island! Rick? On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, In notice that you have the thruster horizontal.? I find them to be very tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 17:12:14 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:12:14 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1290868302.106999.1579908545110@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> <1290868302.106999.1579908545110@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I told him that I was going to use wax paper or wrap the mold with cellophane like I had herd others talk about on this site but he said that his liquid mold release would work fine. I didn't argue as he did this for a living,,,,, Rick On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 1:29 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > I am no expert because I hate doing it but I don't use a release agent, > instead I cover the part with red Tuk Tape used to tape poly together. > Fiberglass will not stick to it. I made the cowl for Gamma's pod that > way. I covered the steel panel with tape and laid the glass on that, and > it popped right off. You should put saddle tanks on anyways ;-) > > Hank > > On Friday, January 24, 2020, 4:09:28 PM MST, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank > I originally gave the job to a guy who does glass work for a living along > with my Styrofoam mold that I had spent many many hours fairing out and he > failed to use a mold release that was for Styrofoam and ended up having to > pick the Styrofoam mold out piece by piece so he was not able to use it to > make the second tank and he for some reason had only laid up two layers of > glass before wrecking the mold so I went and got it from him and will > finish them myself. I have worked with glass before but don't enjoy it. I > might take them to a body shop here to have them do a gel coat so they look > pretty. Hard to find good help on this Island! > Rick > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > > In notice that you have the thruster horizontal. I find them to be very > tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking > up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? > > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled > enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 19:08:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:08:43 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <678546237.88728.1579907212362@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> <678546237.88728.1579907212362@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601d5d313$9bd0f620$d372e260$@telus.net> Thanks, Hank. I am just considering balancing the thruster around the shaft. With the shaft horizontal and sticking out of the hull the tail of the thruster is much heavier than the nose, and it wants to pull itself vertical so the thruster points up. I need the thruster to be reasonably balanced on the horizontal shaft n the water so that it is easily pivoted from pointing strait down, level, to pointing straight up. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 3:07 PM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Tim. The trusters can slide in the mount so they are mounted close to centre of gravity, not that it matters because the mounts are very strong. One nice thing about this sub is that it needs a lot of weight at the back, so I can use all the steel I want. Now the front is another story. I have to keep the front on a Jenny Craig diet program. Hank On Friday, January 24, 2020, 3:32:53 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, In notice that you have the thruster horizontal. I find them to be very tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 19:19:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 00:19:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <001601d5d313$9bd0f620$d372e260$@telus.net> References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> <678546237.88728.1579907212362@mail.yahoo.com> <001601d5d313$9bd0f620$d372e260$@telus.net> Message-ID: <1677521762.80599.1579911577424@mail.yahoo.com> Tim, for sure if you use the original location for the shaft it is way out of balance. ?I have the motors sitting on saddles, not the shaft. ?Hank On Friday, January 24, 2020, 5:09:01 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv9257502254 #yiv9257502254 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv9257502254 #yiv9257502254 p.yiv9257502254MsoNormal, #yiv9257502254 li.yiv9257502254MsoNormal, #yiv9257502254 div.yiv9257502254MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv9257502254 a:link, #yiv9257502254 span.yiv9257502254MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9257502254 a:visited, #yiv9257502254 span.yiv9257502254MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9257502254 span.yiv9257502254EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv9257502254 .yiv9257502254MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv9257502254 div.yiv9257502254WordSection1 {}#yiv9257502254 Thanks, Hank. I am just considering balancing the thruster around the shaft.? With the shaft horizontal and sticking out of the hull the tail of the thruster is much heavier than the nose, and it wants to pull itself vertical so the thruster points up.? I need the thruster to be reasonably balanced on the horizontal shaft n the water so that it is easily pivoted from pointing strait down, level, to pointing straight up. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 3:07 PM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) ? Tim. The trusters can slide in the mount so they are mounted close to centre of gravity, not that it matters because the mounts are very strong. ?One nice thing about this sub is that it needs a lot of weight at the back, so I can use all the steel I want. ?Now the front is another story. ?I have to keep the front on a Jenny Craig diet program. Hank ? On Friday, January 24, 2020, 3:32:53 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hank, In notice that you have the thruster horizontal.? I find them to be very tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 19:21:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 00:21:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> <1290868302.106999.1579908545110@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <402540019.87088.1579911713463@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, Oh man, I can't see a reliese agent working on foam because it so porous, but hey he is the expert lol.Hank. ? On Friday, January 24, 2020, 5:00:02 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I told him that I was going to use wax paper or wrap the mold with cellophane? like I had herd others talk about on this site but he said that his liquid mold release would work fine. I didn't argue as he did this for a living,,,,,?Rick On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 1:29 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,I am no expert because I hate doing it but I don't use a release agent, instead I cover the part with red Tuk Tape used to tape ?poly together.? Fiberglass will not stick to it.? I made the cowl for Gamma's pod that way.? I covered the steel panel with tape and laid the glass on that, and it popped right off.? You should put saddle tanks on anyways ;-)? Hank On Friday, January 24, 2020, 4:09:28 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HankI originally?gave the job to a guy who does glass work for a living along with my Styrofoam mold that I had spent many many hours fairing out and he failed to use a mold release that was for Styrofoam and ended up having to pick the Styrofoam mold out piece by piece so he was not able to use it to make the second tank and he for some reason had only laid up two layers of glass before wrecking the mold so I went and got it from him and will finish them myself. I have worked with glass before but don't enjoy it. I might take them to a body shop here to have them do a gel coat so they look pretty. Hard to find good help on this Island! Rick? On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:33 PM T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, In notice that you have the thruster horizontal.? I find them to be very tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 24 19:42:49 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:42:49 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1677521762.80599.1579911577424@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42.ref@yahoo.ca> <2145DC33-1382-4FAC-8D06-5A76559F3B42@yahoo.ca> <000001d5d306$2e41daf0$8ac590d0$@telus.net> <678546237.88728.1579907212362@mail.yahoo.com> <001601d5d313$9bd0f620$d372e260$@telus.net> <1677521762.80599.1579911577424@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002f01d5d318$5f568840$1e0398c0$@telus.net> Thanks, Hank. Perfect. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 4:20 PM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Tim, for sure if you use the original location for the shaft it is way out of balance. I have the motors sitting on saddles, not the shaft. Hank On Friday, January 24, 2020, 5:09:01 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thanks, Hank. I am just considering balancing the thruster around the shaft. With the shaft horizontal and sticking out of the hull the tail of the thruster is much heavier than the nose, and it wants to pull itself vertical so the thruster points up. I need the thruster to be reasonably balanced on the horizontal shaft n the water so that it is easily pivoted from pointing strait down, level, to pointing straight up. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 3:07 PM To: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Tim. The trusters can slide in the mount so they are mounted close to centre of gravity, not that it matters because the mounts are very strong. One nice thing about this sub is that it needs a lot of weight at the back, so I can use all the steel I want. Now the front is another story. I have to keep the front on a Jenny Craig diet program. Hank On Friday, January 24, 2020, 3:32:53 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hank, In notice that you have the thruster horizontal. I find them to be very tail heavy... are you counterbalancing them in this position or just taking up vertical rotation tendency with a tight joint? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:21 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Jon. Here is a picture that shows my solenoid valve inside an oil filled enclosure behind the sail. The enclosure is a rubber plumbing boot Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 20:07:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 01:07:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 | | | | | | | | | | | The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... | | | Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 20:27:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 14:27:43 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <235A0A77-33E9-4615-B4CB-55362262E8B6@yahoo.com> Very good video Hank. It makes you look intelligent! How many takes? Alan > On 28/01/2020, at 2:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 20:31:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 14:31:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C445469-C012-4FAE-8E87-77F7D4C3B46F@yahoo.com> Hank, what pressure are you going to put in the fibreglass tanks? & how are you monitoring the pressure in them? Alan > On 28/01/2020, at 2:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 20:31:41 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 20:31:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: NOICE! You should be proud, that's impressive and inspirational. Thanks for sharing. For the record, I do have the math skills for buoyancy. And every single ROV I tested and tried to pre-balance it before a test dive. I don't think I ever got it right once. It was always too light. Came back to the science camp after the test dive with one and one of the counselors asked how it went. I told him "Oh, it wasn't heavy enough to sink." He laughed and said "I'll be if you built a boat, it wouldn't float!" Four months later my pontoon boat I built to launch the 300 pound ROV from, sunk in a storm. lol The big naval submarine construction ports have an entire team of people with a boat load of computers whose sole job it is to weigh every single bolt, piece of equipment, even the volume of the welds, to get the buoyancy right. So I'm with you when you say the best way is to stick it in the water and add the weight till you get it right. :D Ian On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 8:08 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary > 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 20:43:55 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 01:43:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <235A0A77-33E9-4615-B4CB-55362262E8B6@yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <235A0A77-33E9-4615-B4CB-55362262E8B6@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <353272604.59187.1580175835336@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you guys,Alan, turns out it is pretty hard to talk to a camera. ?On the first day it was real bad. ?Then I learned to relax and the second day it went real smooth. ?I figured out that breaking it into segments makes it real easy. ? I still stumbled a bit , but I think I will improve. ?If you are referring to the Carbon Fibre tanks, I will put 3,000 psi in and they are plumbed to an internal regulator set at 1,000. ?that is so the tanks can never go below 1,000 psi.Hank On Monday, January 27, 2020, 6:28:07 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very good video Hank.It makes you look intelligent!How many takes?Alan On 28/01/2020, at 2:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 | | | | | | | | | | | The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... | | | Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 21:00:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:00:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003801d5d57e$a8d7acc0$fa870640$@telus.net> Excellent video, Hank. Brilliant, as usual. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 5:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 163 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 1880 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 350 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 21:18:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:18:43 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video Message-ID: <20200127181843.692669D4@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 21:39:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:39:16 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, great job! Want to come finish the fiberglass work for me on the SeaQuestor?? Are all of your thrusters designed to be jettisoned? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 5:08 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary > 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 27 22:43:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 22:43:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Really loved this. The sub, the video, the presenter. Everything. Best, Alec On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 8:08 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary > 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 00:50:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 23:50:30 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A7B289C-AE6D-49CA-B0A8-57BAF9F105EB@snyderemail.com> This is so incredibly cool! Everything about it! Congratulations to you. Congratulations to the community. You are awesome! Best personal regards, Greg > On Jan 27, 2020, at 7:09 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 01:55:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 19:55:46 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <353272604.59187.1580175835336@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <235A0A77-33E9-4615-B4CB-55362262E8B6@yahoo.com> <353272604.59187.1580175835336@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0F2432DF-06A7-49EE-BA30-CBDF720B7449@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, I asked about the "takes" because I messed up a video on some caves the other day. Not that easy. Good idea about the 1000psi safety stop. Alan > On 28/01/2020, at 2:43 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thank you guys, > Alan, turns out it is pretty hard to talk to a camera. On the first day it was real bad. Then I learned to relax and the second day it went real smooth. I figured out that breaking it into segments makes it real easy. I still stumbled a bit , but I think I will improve. > If you are referring to the Carbon Fibre tanks, I will put 3,000 psi in and they are plumbed to an internal regulator set at 1,000. that is so the tanks can never go below 1,000 psi. > Hank > > On Monday, January 27, 2020, 6:28:07 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Very good video Hank. > It makes you look intelligent! > How many takes? > Alan > >> On 28/01/2020, at 2:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 >> >> >> The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 >> In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... >> >> >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 02:08:39 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 20:08:39 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] welcome Ian In-Reply-To: References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99F98AB7-5282-4B14-9788-1617E072E141@yahoo.com> Welcome to Psubs Ian! Ian is a Canadian robotics & electronics instructor that I met through a couple of his courses I was taking on "UDEMY" an online short course provider. He aims his courses at 11 year old level lol. Ian is a robotics engineering graduate who has been a science & technology Instructor for 30 years, worked in R&D & wrote a book on video production. Of particular interest to me is that he has built an underwater manipulator. By the way Ian, Hank is a fellow Canadian. Regards Alan > On 28/01/2020, at 2:31 PM, Ian Juby via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > NOICE! You should be proud, that's impressive and inspirational. Thanks for sharing. > For the record, I do have the math skills for buoyancy. And every single ROV I tested and tried to pre-balance it before a test dive. I don't think I ever got it right once. It was always too light. Came back to the science camp after the test dive with one and one of the counselors asked how it went. I told him "Oh, it wasn't heavy enough to sink." He laughed and said "I'll be if you built a boat, it wouldn't float!" Four months later my pontoon boat I built to launch the 300 pound ROV from, sunk in a storm. lol > The big naval submarine construction ports have an entire team of people with a boat load of computers whose sole job it is to weigh every single bolt, piece of equipment, even the volume of the welds, to get the buoyancy right. So I'm with you when you say the best way is to stick it in the water and add the weight till you get it right. :D > > Ian > > >> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 8:08 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 >> >> >> The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 >> In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... >> >> >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 08:19:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 13:19:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1540495825.334744.1580217593514@mail.yahoo.com> Great work Hank!!? Can't wait to see it. On Monday, January 27, 2020, 08:09:27 PM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 | | | | | | | | | | | The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... | | | Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 13:20:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 08:20:40 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1540495825.334744.1580217593514@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <1540495825.334744.1580217593514@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great Video Hank! Didn't realize you sold your last sub. Also didn't realize that Nuytco had the ability to take a sub to 2,900', that's incredible. also glad the bend tests came out clean! Rick On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:20 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Great work Hank!! Can't wait to see it. > > > On Monday, January 27, 2020, 08:09:27 PM EST, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary > 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 14:51:16 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 08:51:16 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> Hank, that was brilliant. I think you should be a salesman or a politician with that smooth talk you gave. Mind you Sales and Pollies never get anything done themselves. I love the magnetic thrusters! Keep it rolling. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 2:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 Text Box: The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 2269 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 15:41:56 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 20:41:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you guys. ?You would not believe how out of my comfort zone that was. ?I am quite shy by nature. ?But if I want a submarine building youtube channel for profit I had to get over it. ? ?I hope you guys will subscribe.Hank On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 12:51:40 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7880682246 #yiv7880682246 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv7880682246 #yiv7880682246 p.yiv7880682246MsoNormal, #yiv7880682246 li.yiv7880682246MsoNormal, #yiv7880682246 div.yiv7880682246MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv7880682246 h2 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:18.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv7880682246 a:link, #yiv7880682246 span.yiv7880682246MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7880682246 a:visited, #yiv7880682246 span.yiv7880682246MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7880682246 span.yiv7880682246Heading2Char {color:#4F81BD;font-weight:bold;}#yiv7880682246 p.yiv7880682246ydpa40c7173card-description, #yiv7880682246 li.yiv7880682246ydpa40c7173card-description, #yiv7880682246 div.yiv7880682246ydpa40c7173card-description {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv7880682246 span.yiv7880682246EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7880682246 .yiv7880682246MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv7880682246 div.yiv7880682246WordSection1 {}#yiv7880682246 Hank, that was brilliant.? I think you should be a salesman or a politician with that smooth talk you gave.? Mind you Sales and Pollies never get anything done themselves.? I love the magnetic thrusters!? Keep it rolling.? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 2:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 ? | | | | | | | ? | | | | | | The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... | | | ? ? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 2269 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 21404 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 16:30:00 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 21:30:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1046301684.517882.1580247000662@mail.yahoo.com> Great job Hank? on the video!? For you next update on the E3000, I would like see you discuss ship systems from the inside of E3000.? Topics might be navigation and buoyancy control, electrical systems and life support. Cliff On Monday, January 27, 2020, 07:08:17 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 | | | | | | | | | | | The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... | | | Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 16:33:13 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 11:33:13 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1046301684.517882.1580247000662@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <1046301684.517882.1580247000662@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah I would love to see the insides and some of the life support data as well. Rick On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 11:31 AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Great job Hank on the video! For you next update on the E3000, I would > like see you discuss ship systems from the inside of E3000. Topics might > be navigation and buoyancy control, electrical systems and life support. > > Cliff > > On Monday, January 27, 2020, 07:08:17 PM CST, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary > 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 18:21:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 16:21:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1046301684.517882.1580247000662@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1046301684.517882.1580247000662@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91237BB8-B728-40EA-9F8A-312A918EBAB9@yahoo.ca> Cliff thank you. Will do. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 28, 2020, at 2:30 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Great job Hank on the video! For you next update on the E3000, I would like see you discuss ship systems from the inside of E3000. Topics might be navigation and buoyancy control, electrical systems and life support. > > Cliff > > On Monday, January 27, 2020, 07:08:17 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 28 21:09:19 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 15:09:19 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> Hank, great idea with the sub building channel, hopefully you can put a link to Psubs as a "feeder" for the group as there aren't too many people coming through & building at the moment. You are welcome to any of my material or help with it. There would be a lot of visual help in the members builds area if they were happy with it being available. Cheers Alan > On 29/01/2020, at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thank you guys. You would not believe how out of my comfort zone that was. I am quite shy by nature. But if I want a submarine building youtube channel for profit I had to get over it. I hope you guys will subscribe. > Hank > > On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 12:51:40 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, that was brilliant. I think you should be a salesman or a politician with that smooth talk you gave. Mind you Sales and Pollies never get anything done themselves. I love the magnetic thrusters! Keep it rolling. Hugh > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 2:07 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video > > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > > > > > > > > > > > > The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 > In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... > > > > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 29 06:44:05 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 11:44:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <767369333.812139.1580298245498@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, thanks, I hope it works out with youtube. ?It is real hard to get people to subscribe. ?My youngest son is making 1,400 dollars per month after his channel took off 3 months ago.Hank On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 7:09:43 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,great idea with the sub building channel, hopefully you can put a link toPsubs as a "feeder" for the group as there aren't too many people comingthrough & building at the moment.You are welcome to any of my material or help with it.There would be a lot of visual help in the members builds area if they were happywith it being available.Cheers Alan On 29/01/2020, at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thank you guys. ?You would not believe how out of my comfort zone that was. ?I am quite shy by nature. ?But if I want a submarine building youtube channel for profit I had to get over it. ? ?I hope you guys will subscribe.Hank On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 12:51:40 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv5971898784 -- filtered {}#yiv5971898784 filtered {}#yiv5971898784 filtered {}#yiv5971898784 p.yiv5971898784MsoNormal, #yiv5971898784 li.yiv5971898784MsoNormal, #yiv5971898784 div.yiv5971898784MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv5971898784 h2 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:18.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv5971898784 a:link, #yiv5971898784 span.yiv5971898784MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5971898784 a:visited, #yiv5971898784 span.yiv5971898784MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5971898784 span.yiv5971898784Heading2Char {color:#4F81BD;font-weight:bold;}#yiv5971898784 p.yiv5971898784ydpa40c7173card-description, #yiv5971898784 li.yiv5971898784ydpa40c7173card-description, #yiv5971898784 div.yiv5971898784ydpa40c7173card-description {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv5971898784 span.yiv5971898784EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5971898784 .yiv5971898784MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5971898784 filtered {}#yiv5971898784 div.yiv5971898784WordSection1 {}#yiv5971898784 Hank, that was brilliant.? I think you should be a salesman or a politician with that smooth talk you gave.? Mind you Sales and Pollies never get anything done themselves.? I love the magnetic thrusters!? Keep it rolling.? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 2:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 ? | | | | | | | ? | | | | | | The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... | | | ? ? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 29 07:19:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 12:19:03 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <767369333.812139.1580298245498@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> <767369333.812139.1580298245498@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good video Hank. YouTube is a tough sell though. I don't subscribe to anything for privacy and metadata protection reasons. I imagine that I'm not alone in that regard. Still, what does your son produce that makes $1400 / month? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 29, 2020, 04:44, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan, thanks, I hope it works out with youtube. It is real hard to get people to subscribe. My youngest son is making 1,400 dollars per month after his channel took off 3 months ago. > Hank > > On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 7:09:43 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > great idea with the sub building channel, hopefully you can put a link to > Psubs as a "feeder" for the group as there aren't too many people coming > through & building at the moment. > You are welcome to any of my material or help with it. > There would be a lot of visual help in the members builds area if they were happy > with it being available. > Cheers Alan > > On 29/01/2020, at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Thank you guys. You would not believe how out of my comfort zone that was. I am quite shy by nature. But if I want a submarine building youtube channel for profit I had to get over it. I hope you guys will subscribe. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 12:51:40 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, that was brilliant. I think you should be a salesman or a politician with that smooth talk you gave. Mind you Sales and Pollies never get anything done themselves. I love the magnetic thrusters! Keep it rolling. Hugh >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 2:07 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video >> >> [The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDMBVtkKSrw) >> >> >> >> >> >> The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 >> >> In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... >> >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 29 08:18:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 13:18:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Day two Flathead Lake References: <184702050.846079.1580303908388.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <184702050.846079.1580303908388@mail.yahoo.com> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1:41 Now playing Watch later Watch later Add to queue Add to queue ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | | | | | | | | | | | Flathead Lake Montana Research Expedition | Day 2 Flathead Lake Expedition Day 1: https://bit.ly/2GoSLgP If you enjoyed this video check out some of my others! Wo... | | | Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 29 08:40:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 13:40:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> <767369333.812139.1580298245498@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1802951993.838975.1580305208610@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, ?Shoot ?I thought I was just talking to Alan about my son. ?My son's name is "Daniel Pronk" ?check him out. ? Hank On Wednesday, January 29, 2020, 5:19:26 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good video Hank. YouTube is a tough sell though. I don't subscribe to anything for privacy and metadata protection reasons. I imagine that I'm not alone in that regard. Still, what does your son produce that makes $1400 / month? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 29, 2020, 04:44, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alan, thanks, I hope it works out with youtube. ?It is real hard to get people to subscribe. ?My youngest son is making 1,400 dollars per month after his channel took off 3 months ago.Hank On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 7:09:43 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,great idea with the sub building channel, hopefully you can put a link toPsubs as a "feeder" for the group as there aren't too many people comingthrough & building at the moment.You are welcome to any of my material or help with it.There would be a lot of visual help in the members builds area if they were happywith it being available.Cheers Alan On 29/01/2020, at 9:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thank you guys. ?You would not believe how out of my comfort zone that was. ?I am quite shy by nature. ?But if I want a submarine building youtube channel for profit I had to get over it. ? ?I hope you guys will subscribe.Hank On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 12:51:40 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv9052272261 -- filtered {}#yiv9052272261 filtered {}#yiv9052272261 filtered {}#yiv9052272261 p.yiv9052272261MsoNormal, #yiv9052272261 li.yiv9052272261MsoNormal, #yiv9052272261 div.yiv9052272261MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv9052272261 h2 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:18.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv9052272261 a:link, #yiv9052272261 span.yiv9052272261MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9052272261 a:visited, #yiv9052272261 span.yiv9052272261MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9052272261 span.yiv9052272261Heading2Char {color:#4F81BD;font-weight:bold;}#yiv9052272261 p.yiv9052272261ydpa40c7173card-description, #yiv9052272261 li.yiv9052272261ydpa40c7173card-description, #yiv9052272261 div.yiv9052272261ydpa40c7173card-description {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv9052272261 span.yiv9052272261EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv9052272261 .yiv9052272261MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv9052272261 filtered {}#yiv9052272261 div.yiv9052272261WordSection1 {}#yiv9052272261 Hank, that was brilliant.? I think you should be a salesman or a politician with that smooth talk you gave.? Mind you Sales and Pollies never get anything done themselves.? I love the magnetic thrusters!? Keep it rolling.? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 2:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video ? The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 ? | | | | | | | ? | | | | | | The Deepest Diving Homemade Submarine In The World | Elementary 3000 In this video I am giving a tour of my homemade submarine, Elementary 3000. E3000 is the deepest diving homemade... | | | ? ? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 29 09:33:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 14:33:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1517951379.984520.1580308395418@mail.yahoo.com> Absolutely.? Anything you (or anyone) wants to share related to submarines should be sent to me so we can add it to the PSUBS web site.? I don't have the time to "surf the net" for content so depend upon you guys to feed it this way. Jon On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 09:11:37 PM EST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,great idea with the sub building channel, hopefully you can put a link toPsubs as a "feeder" for the group as there aren't too many people comingthrough & building at the moment.You are welcome to any of my material or help with it.There would be a lot of visual help in the members builds area if they were happywith it being available.Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 29 10:07:25 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 15:07:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1517951379.984520.1580308395418@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> <1517951379.984520.1580308395418@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1019433032.917641.1580310445479@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I was just going to say that is a Great! idea! ?and was going to ask Jon if its okay. ? If anyone wants to take clips of their build, I will have my son put it together and we can add it. ?This will help because it will provide extra dimension. ?Not everybody will like my simple approach so showing the high tech side will be good.I plan to build the new sub regardless of youtube revenue potential. ?Sean is right, that it is a tough sell, but I have done real well by trying new things. ?So there is no down side. ?There is a lot of collective knowledge on Subs that can be shared on this platform.Hank On Wednesday, January 29, 2020, 7:33:37 AM MST, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Absolutely.? Anything you (or anyone) wants to share related to submarines should be sent to me so we can add it to the PSUBS web site.? I don't have the time to "surf the net" for content so depend upon you guys to feed it this way. Jon On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 09:11:37 PM EST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,great idea with the sub building channel, hopefully you can put a link toPsubs as a "feeder" for the group as there aren't too many people comingthrough & building at the moment.You are welcome to any of my material or help with it.There would be a lot of visual help in the members builds area if they were happywith it being available.Cheers Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 29 10:27:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 10:27:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: <1019433032.917641.1580310445479@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> <1517951379.984520.1580308395418@mail.yahoo.com> <1019433032.917641.1580310445479@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I like your idea and think you should go for it because I'll really enjoy watching the videos. However, I do see two specific difficulties. One is that ours is simply not an activity of mass market appeal. And the second is that these Youtubers have to keep up a tremendous tempo of releases. If it were me, I would really struggle to come up with new content at that pace, because it takes me so damn long to build anything. Even editing videos, it takes me on average 120 minutes to edit each minute of content, and that is not an abnormal ratio. It's really good you make things quick! Best, Alec On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 10:08 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > I was just going to say that is a Great! idea! and was going to ask Jon > if its okay. If anyone wants to take clips of their build, I will have my > son put it together and we can add it. This will help because it will > provide extra dimension. Not everybody will like my simple approach so > showing the high tech side will be good. > I plan to build the new sub regardless of youtube revenue potential. Sean > is right, that it is a tough sell, but I have done real well by trying new > things. So there is no down side. There is a lot of collective knowledge > on Subs that can be shared on this platform. > Hank > On Wednesday, January 29, 2020, 7:33:37 AM MST, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Absolutely. Anything you (or anyone) wants to share related to submarines > should be sent to me so we can add it to the PSUBS web site. I don't have > the time to "surf the net" for content so depend upon you guys to feed it > this way. > > Jon > > > On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 09:11:37 PM EST, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > great idea with the sub building channel, hopefully you can put a link to > Psubs as a "feeder" for the group as there aren't too many people coming > through & building at the moment. > You are welcome to any of my material or help with it. > There would be a lot of visual help in the members builds area if they > were happy > with it being available. > Cheers Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 29 13:58:27 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 10:58:27 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new video In-Reply-To: References: <1101943689.11362.1580173626337.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1101943689.11362.1580173626337@mail.yahoo.com> <07b501d5d614$502b90a0$f082b1e0$@gmail.com> <1004943035.532864.1580244116152@mail.yahoo.com> <6E134719-67C4-4944-A45B-93DE53C8CDCE@yahoo.com> <1517951379.984520.1580308395418@mail.yahoo.com> <1019433032.917641.1580310445479@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, nice video. Have your son reach out to me. I have gigabytes of footage on the SeaQuestor build of the pressure hull so far, and of the initial foam and keel assembly. We might be able to work out a deal. I get videos, and you get parts for your sub. Your son gets experience. Lol Best Regards, David Colombo On Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 7:28 AM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, I like your idea and think you should go for it because I'll really > enjoy watching the videos. However, I do see two specific difficulties. One > is that ours is simply not an activity of mass market appeal. And the > second is that these Youtubers have to keep up a tremendous tempo of > releases. If it were me, I would really struggle to come up with new > content at that pace, because it takes me so damn long to build anything. > Even editing videos, it takes me on average 120 minutes to edit each minute > of content, and that is not an abnormal ratio. It's really good you make > things quick! > > Best, > Alec > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 10:08 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alan, >> I was just going to say that is a Great! idea! and was going to ask Jon >> if its okay. If anyone wants to take clips of their build, I will have my >> son put it together and we can add it. This will help because it will >> provide extra dimension. Not everybody will like my simple approach so >> showing the high tech side will be good. >> I plan to build the new sub regardless of youtube revenue potential. >> Sean is right, that it is a tough sell, but I have done real well by trying >> new things. So there is no down side. There is a lot of collective >> knowledge on Subs that can be shared on this platform. >> Hank >> On Wednesday, January 29, 2020, 7:33:37 AM MST, Jon Wallace via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Absolutely. Anything you (or anyone) wants to share related to >> submarines should be sent to me so we can add it to the PSUBS web site. I >> don't have the time to "surf the net" for content so depend upon you guys >> to feed it this way. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 09:11:37 PM EST, Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> great idea with the sub building channel, hopefully you can put a link to >> Psubs as a "feeder" for the group as there aren't too many people coming >> through & building at the moment. >> You are welcome to any of my material or help with it. >> There would be a lot of visual help in the members builds area if they >> were happy >> with it being available. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 06:58:35 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:58:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. ?I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. ?My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. ?I messed up in two ways. ?First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. ?The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. ?So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 07:05:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 12:05:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1419265448.217804.1580385950361@mail.yahoo.com> K-boat plans have all gases internal, as does the K-600. Jon On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 07:01:51 AM EST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. ?I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. ?My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. ?I messed up in two ways. ?First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. ?The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. ?So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 07:12:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 12:12:24 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. > Hank > [Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 08:04:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 13:04:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. ?I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. ?If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem. ?I am using multiple tanks so all is good. ? I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. ?I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. ?My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. ?I messed up in two ways. ?First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. ?The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. ?So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 08:30:52 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 13:30:52 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water. > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. > > Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > > Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. > Hank > [Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 08:44:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 13:44:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <909734521.1472286.1580391843419@mail.yahoo.com> Sean thanks. ?As always I keep it simple and cost effective, so I will have small O2 tanks with no manifold. ?I will just swap them out as needed. ?The beauty of small tanks is you only end up filling one or two per trip. ?Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 6:31:16 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. ?I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. ?If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem. ?I am using multiple tanks so all is good. ? I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. ?I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. ?My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. ?I messed up in two ways. ?First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. ?The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. ?So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 09:01:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:01:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. Best, Alec On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves > should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the > entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep > the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. > > Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the > consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, > or you have to have a response plan for that failure. > > As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you > overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion > resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I > designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am > sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for > corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than > seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at > elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such > processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost > of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side > of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that > can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of > Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not > exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost > all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. > I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would > really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the > water. > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation > that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder > (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders > where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered > together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more > than 1 atm. > > Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, > and use a stainless insert. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what > appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have > that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have > external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First > off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is > when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the > tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of > it. > Hank > [image: Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 09:21:08 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 14:21:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? ?In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator. ?I love simpleHank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. Best,Alec On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat.? I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank.? If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem.? I am using multiple tanks so all is good. ? I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks.? I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard.? My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal.? I messed up in two ways.? First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2.? The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank.? So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 09:33:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:33:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with > separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the > regulator. I love simple > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second > requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 > should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second > condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. > > Best, > Alec > > > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves > should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the > entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep > the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. > > Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the > consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, > or you have to have a response plan for that failure. > > As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you > overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion > resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I > designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am > sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for > corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than > seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at > elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such > processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost > of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side > of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that > can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of > Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not > exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost > all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. > I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would > really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the > water. > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation > that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder > (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders > where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered > together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more > than 1 atm. > > Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, > and use a stainless insert. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what > appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have > that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have > external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First > off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is > when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the > tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of > it. > Hank > [image: Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 12:19:03 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:19:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 Message-ID: <20200130091903.6920EA00@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 13:04:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:04:50 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec, I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunch of tanks we had for a dive trip. It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure. A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking. Alan > On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. > >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator. I love simple >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. >> >> Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. >> >> As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. >> >> Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. >> >> Sean >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. >> Hank >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 13:27:09 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:27:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <20200130091903.6920EA00@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20200130091903.6920EA00@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian. The through hull is steel. But that can be changed with a bit of effort. My bigger problem is the tank location and it?s difficulty in swapping it out. I could leave a big tank in place permanently as a emergency supply and use a small tank inside for day use. If I do that why not just have all the O2 inside. Also remember that at 3000 feet I have to leave 1300 psi in just to protect the tank. I am perfectly comfortable with the supply being inside. Like Jon says the K boats are all like that originally. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 30, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Hank , What exactly is the issue of not going with external O2 tank? Is it that the thru hull is not bronze ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 > Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 13:44:03 +0000 (UTC) > > Sean thanks. As always I keep it simple and cost effective, so I will have small O2 tanks with no manifold. I will just swap them out as needed. The beauty of small tanks is you only end up filling one or two per trip. > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 6:31:16 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. > > Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. > > As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water. > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. > > Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 13:47:24 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 13:47:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow, I've never had that happen. How weird, I would have been sure it would happen only if the tank was left in strong sunlight or something like that. Have to say that would not be a good event. I guess one would switch off the electrical power breaker immediately and surface using only ballast to try not to have any sparks. On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 1:06 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunch > of tanks we had for a dive trip. > It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure. > A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking. > Alan > > > On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement > to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any > one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think > you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the > plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to > empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not > hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be > closed except the one currently discharging. > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with >> separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the >> regulator. I love simple >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second >> requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 >> should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second >> condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves >> should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the >> entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep >> the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. >> >> Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the >> consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, >> or you have to have a response plan for that failure. >> >> As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you >> overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion >> resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I >> designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am >> sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for >> corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than >> seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at >> elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such >> processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost >> of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side >> of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that >> can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of >> Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not >> exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost >> all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. >> I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would >> really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the >> water. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation >> that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder >> (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders >> where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered >> together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more >> than 1 atm. >> >> Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, >> and use a stainless insert. >> >> Sean >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what >> appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have >> that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have >> external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First >> off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is >> when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the >> tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of >> it. >> Hank >> [image: Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 14:09:23 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 19:09:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2052386142.1651352.1580411363839@mail.yahoo.com> I use medical O2 tanks that are filled from a big tank, so they will never be at full capacity, so little chance of the venting off.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 11:47:52 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Wow, I've never had that happen. How weird, I would have been sure it would happen only if the tank was left in strong sunlight or something like that. Have to say that would not be a good event. I guess one would switch off the electrical power breaker immediately and surface using only ballast to try not to have any sparks. On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 1:06 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunchof tanks we had for a dive trip.?It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure.A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking.Alan On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire?? In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator.? I love simpleHank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. Best,Alec On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat.? I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank.? If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem.? I am using multiple tanks so all is good. ? I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks.? I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard.? My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal.? I messed up in two ways.? First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2.? The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank.? So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 14:24:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:24:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 Message-ID: <20200130112440.6920F2FC@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 15:38:36 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:38:36 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5Cfx_H69zo3cxTeITNlcECyEGZZ7eM3MZr8HDYWPIXC_dqciqvkBOoEuLejrKhdD1POCedC6F97u-4S-n1Vea1D9Op6l4YZAM2lA5xXaIwE=@protonmail.com> It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter too. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec, > I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunch > of tanks we had for a dive trip. > It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure. > A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking. > Alan > > On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. >> >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator. I love simple >>> Hank >>> >>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. >>>> >>>> Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. >>>> >>>> As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. >>>>> >>>>> Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. >>>>> Hank >>>>> [Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 20:01:30 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:01:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <5Cfx_H69zo3cxTeITNlcECyEGZZ7eM3MZr8HDYWPIXC_dqciqvkBOoEuLejrKhdD1POCedC6F97u-4S-n1Vea1D9Op6l4YZAM2lA5xXaIwE=@protonmail.com> References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> <5Cfx_H69zo3cxTeITNlcECyEGZZ7eM3MZr8HDYWPIXC_dqciqvkBOoEuLejrKhdD1POCedC6F97u-4S-n1Vea1D9Op6l4YZAM2lA5xXaIwE=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I am using 5 E size tanks (20cf) in the SeaQuestor. They sit right behind my pilot seat within arms reach. Each are individually valve controlled. Though they are tied to a manifold that holds the digital gauge tied to my plc, so that I only have one digital gauge. No more than one tank at a time would ever be open. Indivudually they have their own digital gauge and flow control, in addition to the digital gauge on the manifold. This gives me the ability to disconnect a bottle from the digital system in the event the plc goes down, and still control its flow and have the ability to read the tank level. I'm all about redundant systems. Best Regards, David Colombo On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder > burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing > the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter > too. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Alec, > I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunch > of tanks we had for a dive trip. > It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure. > A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking. > Alan > > > On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement > to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any > one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think > you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the > plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to > empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not > hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be > closed except the one currently discharging. > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with >> separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the >> regulator. I love simple >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> >> In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second >> requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 >> should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second >> condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves >> should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the >> entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep >> the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. >> >> Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the >> consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, >> or you have to have a response plan for that failure. >> >> As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you >> overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion >> resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I >> designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am >> sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for >> corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than >> seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at >> elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such >> processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost >> of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side >> of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that >> can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of >> Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not >> exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost >> all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. >> I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would >> really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the >> water. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation >> that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder >> (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders >> where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered >> together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more >> than 1 atm. >> >> Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, >> and use a stainless insert. >> >> Sean >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what >> appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have >> that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have >> external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First >> off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is >> when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the >> tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of >> it. >> Hank >> [image: Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image3563060958530401108.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 343081 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image6529509745769134511.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 287303 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 02:37:51 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 21:37:51 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <827519069.231347.1580385515187.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <827519069.231347.1580385515187@mail.yahoo.com> <955972840.1466004.1580389446572@mail.yahoo.com> <736750893.1499162.1580394068487@mail.yahoo.com> <5Cfx_H69zo3cxTeITNlcECyEGZZ7eM3MZr8HDYWPIXC_dqciqvkBOoEuLejrKhdD1POCedC6F97u-4S-n1Vea1D9Op6l4YZAM2lA5xXaIwE=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: I personally don't believe HP gas has a place inside a one atm sub. I know ketteredge did it but still don't think it should be for three reasons. 1. allows a lot more room in a small confined space, 2. could raise the ppo2 to a fire hazard level before you could secure the problem and 3. You are going to increase your internal pressure much faster and greater if it is HP rather than LP and the least internal positive pressure pushing the wrong way against the ports and hatch seal while ascending, the better. Reaction time is effected when something like a hose lets go so you may increase internal pressure faster than one might think. I was being pushed down to 700' in SAT on a job and all the condiments that are put inside (salade dressing, ketchup, etc) is supposed to have a hole poked in the top by the tenders and they forgot to do that on a bottle on salad dressing we were using. We were eating dinner while being pressed and the last guy to use it screwed the top on all the way thinking that a hole had been put in it like normal and it imploded while it was sitting right next to me. It took some time to get our witts about us as we thought a port had let go but other than being covered with broken glass and thousand island dressing, everything was ok. I am keeping all my HP gas outside. Rick On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:04 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Hank, I am using 5 E size tanks (20cf) in the SeaQuestor. They sit > right behind my pilot seat within arms reach. Each are individually valve > controlled. Though they are tied to a manifold that holds the digital gauge > tied to my plc, so that I only have one digital gauge. No more than one > tank at a time would ever be open. Indivudually they have their own digital > gauge and flow control, in addition to the digital gauge on the manifold. > This gives me the ability to disconnect a bottle from the digital system in > the event the plc goes down, and still control its flow and have the > ability to read the tank level. I'm all about redundant systems. > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder >> burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing >> the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter >> too. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Alec, >> I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunch >> of tanks we had for a dive trip. >> It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure. >> A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking. >> Alan >> >> >> On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement >> to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any >> one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think >> you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the >> plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to >> empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not >> hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be >> closed except the one currently discharging. >> >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with >>> separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the >>> regulator. I love simple >>> Hank >>> >>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second >>> requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 >>> should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second >>> condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves >>> should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the >>> entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep >>> the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. >>> >>> Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and >>> the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be >>> acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. >>> >>> As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you >>> overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion >>> resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I >>> designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am >>> sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for >>> corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than >>> seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at >>> elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such >>> processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost >>> of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side >>> of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that >>> can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of >>> Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not >>> exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost >>> all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. >>> I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would >>> really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the >>> water. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by >>> calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single >>> cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded >>> cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be >>> considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied >>> space by more than 1 atm. >>> >>> Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, >>> and use a stainless insert. >>> >>> Sean >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what >>> appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have >>> that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have >>> external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First >>> off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is >>> when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the >>> tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of >>> it. >>> Hank >>> [image: Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 20:50:54 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:50:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Camera References: Message-ID: Here is my newly installed camera on E3000. I have no window looking out at the surface, so this is it. It works nice with a back up truck camera and monitor Hank -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0879.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 479246 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 20:52:45 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:52:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) References: <5AFD5EBC-55F9-43BF-BE1A-3F8A6FEFEEC5.ref@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <5AFD5EBC-55F9-43BF-BE1A-3F8A6FEFEEC5@yahoo.ca> This is the monitor that goes with the camera looking at the wall Hank -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0877.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 424715 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 21:16:40 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 02:16:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 References: <167208945.521213.1580437000585.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <167208945.521213.1580437000585@mail.yahoo.com> Okay for shallow subs, Rick, not for deep. HP bottles don't much care for external pressure--will collapse at 3000 psi external (once empty). Alvin, Nautile, and others of the deep diving community (including P4, 5 & 6) all carry their primary HP oxygen storage internally. They have to. Not a psubs issue, obviously, unless your name is Scott Waters. the secondary O2 bank is external on P6 but if these bottles were ever depleted at depth, they would probably have to be replaced after the fact. HP air is different, as they can't be depleted beyond whatever the external pressure is. Oxygen bottles? Not so much.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:41 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 I personally don't believe HP gas has a place inside a one atm sub. I know ketteredge did it but still don't think it should be for three reasons. 1. allows a lot more room in a small confined space, 2. could raise the ppo2 to a fire hazard level before you could secure the problem and 3. You are going to increase your internal pressure much faster and greater if it is HP rather than LP and the least internal?positive pressure pushing the wrong way against the ports and hatch seal while ascending, the better.Reaction time is effected when something like a hose lets go so you may increase?internal pressure faster than one might think. I was being pushed down to 700' in SAT on a job and all the condiments?that are put inside (salade dressing, ketchup, etc) is supposed?to have a hole poked in the top by the tenders and they forgot to do that on a bottle on salad dressing we were using. We were eating dinner while being pressed and the last guy to use it screwed the top on all the way thinking that a hole had been put in it like normal and it imploded while it was sitting right next to me.?It took some time to get our witts about us as we thought a port had let go but other than being covered with broken glass and thousand island dressing, everything was ok. I am keeping all my HP gas outside.Rick ? On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:04 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I am using 5 E size tanks (20cf) in the SeaQuestor. They sit right behind my pilot seat within arms reach. Each are individually valve controlled. Though they are tied to a manifold that holds the digital gauge tied to my plc, so that I only have one digital gauge. No more than one tank at a time would ever be open. Indivudually they have their own digital gauge and flow control, in addition to the digital gauge on the manifold.? This gives me the ability to disconnect a bottle from the digital system in the event the plc goes down, and still control its flow and have the ability to read the tank level. I'm all about redundant systems.Best Regards,David Colombo On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter too. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alec,I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunchof tanks we had for a dive trip.?It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure.A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking.Alan On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire?? In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator.? I love simpleHank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. Best,Alec On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat.? I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank.? If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem.? I am using multiple tanks so all is good. ? I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks.? I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard.? My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal.? I messed up in two ways.? First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2.? The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank.? So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 22:14:58 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 22:14:58 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very neat. Does that have a though-hull? I'm curious how the image signal gets to the monitor, particularly as it's such a deep diving sub. Thanks, Alec On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:52 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Here is my newly installed camera on E3000. I have no window looking out > at the surface, so this is it. It works nice with a back up truck camera > and monitor > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 30 22:42:33 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:42:33 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <167208945.521213.1580437000585@mail.yahoo.com> References: <167208945.521213.1580437000585.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <167208945.521213.1580437000585@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree with you Vance but that doesn't apply to the majority of the subs the Psubs group are building. I just don't like HP gas in a one atm sub if it can be helped, that's all. Rick On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:17 PM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Okay for shallow subs, Rick, not for deep. HP bottles don't much care for > external pressure--will collapse at 3000 psi external (once empty). Alvin, > Nautile, and others of the deep diving community (including P4, 5 & 6) all > carry their primary HP oxygen storage internally. They have to. Not a psubs > issue, obviously, unless your name is Scott Waters. the secondary O2 bank > is external on P6 but if these bottles were ever depleted at depth, they > would probably have to be replaced after the fact. HP air is different, as > they can't be depleted beyond whatever the external pressure is. Oxygen > bottles? Not so much. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:41 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 > > I personally don't believe HP gas has a place inside a one atm sub. I know > ketteredge did it but still don't think it should be for three reasons. 1. > allows a lot more room in a small confined space, 2. could raise the ppo2 > to a fire hazard level before you could secure the problem and 3. You are > going to increase your internal pressure much faster and greater if it is > HP rather than LP and the least internal positive pressure pushing the > wrong way against the ports and hatch seal while ascending, the better. > Reaction time is effected when something like a hose lets go so you may > increase internal pressure faster than one might think. I was being pushed > down to 700' in SAT on a job and all the condiments that are put inside > (salade dressing, ketchup, etc) is supposed to have a hole poked in the top > by the tenders and they forgot to do that on a bottle on salad dressing we > were using. We were eating dinner while being pressed and the last guy to > use it screwed the top on all the way thinking that a hole had been put in > it like normal and it imploded while it was sitting right next to me. > It took some time to get our witts about us as we thought a port had let > go but other than being covered with broken glass and thousand island > dressing, everything was ok. I am keeping all my HP gas outside. > Rick > > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:04 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Hank, I am using 5 E size tanks (20cf) in the SeaQuestor. They sit > right behind my pilot seat within arms reach. Each are individually valve > controlled. Though they are tied to a manifold that holds the digital gauge > tied to my plc, so that I only have one digital gauge. No more than one > tank at a time would ever be open. Indivudually they have their own digital > gauge and flow control, in addition to the digital gauge on the manifold. > This gives me the ability to disconnect a bottle from the digital system in > the event the plc goes down, and still control its flow and have the > ability to read the tank level. I'm all about redundant systems. > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder > burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing > the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter > too. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Alec, > I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunch > of tanks we had for a dive trip. > It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure. > A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking. > Alan > > > On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement > to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any > one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think > you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the > plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to > empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not > hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be > closed except the one currently discharging. > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with > separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the > regulator. I love simple > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > > In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second > requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 > should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second > condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. > > Best, > Alec > > > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves > should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the > entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep > the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. > > Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the > consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, > or you have to have a response plan for that failure. > > As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you > overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion > resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I > designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am > sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for > corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than > seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at > elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such > processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost > of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side > of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that > can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of > Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not > exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost > all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. > I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would > really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the > water. > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation > that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder > (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders > where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered > together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more > than 1 atm. > > Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, > and use a stainless insert. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what > appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have > that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have > external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First > off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is > when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the > tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of > it. > Hank > [image: Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 06:32:47 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 11:32:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1104621334.1964732.1580470367311@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, the housing is a repurposed housing that had a dome window. ?I made a 1 inch thick flat. ?It has penetrators like the ones I was looking for. ?The hull has a 20 pin home made penetrator and 4 of those wires are for the camera. ?It has not been in the water but so far works great. ?The picture quality is as expected for a 200 dollar set up but very good for the purpose.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 8:15:27 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Very neat. Does that have a though-hull? I'm curious how the image signal gets to the monitor, particularly as it's such a deep diving sub.? Thanks, Alec On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:52 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Here is my newly installed camera on E3000. I have no window looking out at the surface, so this is it. It works nice with a back up truck camera and monitor Hank Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 09:10:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 09:10:37 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Camera In-Reply-To: <1104621334.1964732.1580470367311@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1104621334.1964732.1580470367311@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Excellent. BTW I've recently got an education in small housings for deep subs, because I've been making some for Pisces. You wouldn't believe how much engineering it took to design these simple little things for 8K feet, and the precision of fabrication required. Three thousand isn't eight thousand, but it sure isn't the K boat range. I'd strongly recommend having things like this tested in a small chamber. Particularly the penetrator, as a large proportion of the commercial ones fail at pressures below what they're advertised for. On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 6:33 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, the housing is a repurposed housing that had a dome window. I made > a 1 inch thick flat. It has penetrators like the ones I was looking for. > The hull has a 20 pin home made penetrator and 4 of those wires are for the > camera. It has not been in the water but so far works great. The picture > quality is as expected for a 200 dollar set up but very good for the > purpose. > Hank > > On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 8:15:27 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Very neat. Does that have a though-hull? I'm curious how the image signal > gets to the monitor, particularly as it's such a deep diving sub. > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:52 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Here is my newly installed camera on E3000. I have no window looking out > at the surface, so this is it. It works nice with a back up truck camera > and monitor > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 09:11:43 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:11:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <167208945.521213.1580437000585.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <167208945.521213.1580437000585@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1192519784.652775.1580479903746@mail.yahoo.com> Yup, me too. I just thought the visual of squashed scuba tanks might be entertaining. Not all get squashed, though. I think Alvin has titanium air bottles. Which cost, I assume, about as much as an average plug--EACH! Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 11:39 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 I agree with you Vance but that doesn't apply to the majority of the subs the Psubs group are building. I just don't like HP gas in a one atm sub if it can be helped, that's all.Rick On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:17 PM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Okay for shallow subs, Rick, not for deep. HP bottles don't much care for external pressure--will collapse at 3000 psi external (once empty). Alvin, Nautile, and others of the deep diving community (including P4, 5 & 6) all carry their primary HP oxygen storage internally. They have to. Not a psubs issue, obviously, unless your name is Scott Waters. the secondary O2 bank is external on P6 but if these bottles were ever depleted at depth, they would probably have to be replaced after the fact. HP air is different, as they can't be depleted beyond whatever the external pressure is. Oxygen bottles? Not so much.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:41 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 I personally don't believe HP gas has a place inside a one atm sub. I know ketteredge did it but still don't think it should be for three reasons. 1. allows a lot more room in a small confined space, 2. could raise the ppo2 to a fire hazard level before you could secure the problem and 3. You are going to increase your internal pressure much faster and greater if it is HP rather than LP and the least internal?positive pressure pushing the wrong way against the ports and hatch seal while ascending, the better.Reaction time is effected when something like a hose lets go so you may increase?internal pressure faster than one might think. I was being pushed down to 700' in SAT on a job and all the condiments?that are put inside (salade dressing, ketchup, etc) is supposed?to have a hole poked in the top by the tenders and they forgot to do that on a bottle on salad dressing we were using. We were eating dinner while being pressed and the last guy to use it screwed the top on all the way thinking that a hole had been put in it like normal and it imploded while it was sitting right next to me.?It took some time to get our witts about us as we thought a port had let go but other than being covered with broken glass and thousand island dressing, everything was ok. I am keeping all my HP gas outside.Rick ? On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:04 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I am using 5 E size tanks (20cf) in the SeaQuestor. They sit right behind my pilot seat within arms reach. Each are individually valve controlled. Though they are tied to a manifold that holds the digital gauge tied to my plc, so that I only have one digital gauge. No more than one tank at a time would ever be open. Indivudually they have their own digital gauge and flow control, in addition to the digital gauge on the manifold.? This gives me the ability to disconnect a bottle from the digital system in the event the plc goes down, and still control its flow and have the ability to read the tank level. I'm all about redundant systems.Best Regards,David Colombo On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter too. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alec,I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunchof tanks we had for a dive trip.?It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure.A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking.Alan On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire?? In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator.? I love simpleHank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. Best,Alec On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat.? I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank.? If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem.? I am using multiple tanks so all is good. ? I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks.? I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard.? My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal.? I messed up in two ways.? First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2.? The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank.? So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 09:16:50 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:16:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98ED0788-2C78-4725-B22C-B67CADD7117F@yahoo.ca> I pressure test all my penetrators. I don?t think this housing will go past 1500 feet. That is good enough for now Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 31, 2020, at 7:11 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > Excellent. BTW I've recently got an education in small housings for deep subs, because I've been making some for Pisces. You wouldn't believe how much engineering it took to design these simple little things for 8K feet, and the precision of fabrication required. Three thousand isn't eight thousand, but it sure isn't the K boat range. I'd strongly recommend having things like this tested in a small chamber. Particularly the penetrator, as a large proportion of the commercial ones fail at pressures below what they're advertised for. > >> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 6:33 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alec, the housing is a repurposed housing that had a dome window. I made a 1 inch thick flat. It has penetrators like the ones I was looking for. The hull has a 20 pin home made penetrator and 4 of those wires are for the camera. It has not been in the water but so far works great. The picture quality is as expected for a 200 dollar set up but very good for the purpose. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 8:15:27 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Very neat. Does that have a though-hull? I'm curious how the image signal gets to the monitor, particularly as it's such a deep diving sub. >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:52 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Here is my newly installed camera on E3000. I have no window looking out at the surface, so this is it. It works nice with a back up truck camera and monitor >> Hank >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 09:35:22 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:35:22 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <1192519784.652775.1580479903746@mail.yahoo.com> References: <167208945.521213.1580437000585.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <167208945.521213.1580437000585@mail.yahoo.com> <1192519784.652775.1580479903746@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's always the option of custom designed gas storage vessels (spherical?), but then you'd need to certify them, and would need a transfer / booster pump to fill them. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 31, 2020, 07:11, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Yup, me too. > > I just thought the visual of squashed scuba tanks might be entertaining. > > Not all get squashed, though. I think Alvin has titanium air bottles. Which cost, I assume, about as much as an average plug--EACH! > > Vance > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 11:39 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 > > I agree with you Vance but that doesn't apply to the majority of the subs the Psubs group are building. I just don't like HP gas in a one atm sub if it can be helped, that's all. > Rick > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:17 PM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Okay for shallow subs, Rick, not for deep. HP bottles don't much care for external pressure--will collapse at 3000 psi external (once empty). Alvin, Nautile, and others of the deep diving community (including P4, 5 & 6) all carry their primary HP oxygen storage internally. They have to. Not a psubs issue, obviously, unless your name is Scott Waters. the secondary O2 bank is external on P6 but if these bottles were ever depleted at depth, they would probably have to be replaced after the fact. HP air is different, as they can't be depleted beyond whatever the external pressure is. Oxygen bottles? Not so much. >> Vance >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:41 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 >> >> I personally don't believe HP gas has a place inside a one atm sub. I know ketteredge did it but still don't think it should be for three reasons. 1. allows a lot more room in a small confined space, 2. could raise the ppo2 to a fire hazard level before you could secure the problem and 3. You are going to increase your internal pressure much faster and greater if it is HP rather than LP and the least internal positive pressure pushing the wrong way against the ports and hatch seal while ascending, the better. >> Reaction time is effected when something like a hose lets go so you may increase internal pressure faster than one might think. I was being pushed down to 700' in SAT on a job and all the condiments that are put inside (salade dressing, ketchup, etc) is supposed to have a hole poked in the top by the tenders and they forgot to do that on a bottle on salad dressing we were using. We were eating dinner while being pressed and the last guy to use it screwed the top on all the way thinking that a hole had been put in it like normal and it imploded while it was sitting right next to me. >> It took some time to get our witts about us as we thought a port had let go but other than being covered with broken glass and thousand island dressing, everything was ok. I am keeping all my HP gas outside. >> Rick >> >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:04 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Hi Hank, I am using 5 E size tanks (20cf) in the SeaQuestor. They sit right behind my pilot seat within arms reach. Each are individually valve controlled. Though they are tied to a manifold that holds the digital gauge tied to my plc, so that I only have one digital gauge. No more than one tank at a time would ever be open. Indivudually they have their own digital gauge and flow control, in addition to the digital gauge on the manifold. This gives me the ability to disconnect a bottle from the digital system in the event the plc goes down, and still control its flow and have the ability to read the tank level. I'm all about redundant systems. >>> Best Regards, >>> David Colombo >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter too. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Alec, >>>>> I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunch >>>>> of tanks we had for a dive trip. >>>>> It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure. >>>>> A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator. I love simple >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hank, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Alec >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water. >>>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>>>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. >>>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>>> [Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 09:54:48 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:54:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: References: <167208945.521213.1580437000585.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <167208945.521213.1580437000585@mail.yahoo.com> <1192519784.652775.1580479903746@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1671893791.654852.1580482488589@mail.yahoo.com> As was done of the early Perry lockout boats and the JSLs for mixed gas storage-- -----Original Message----- From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Fri, Jan 31, 2020 9:35 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 There's always the option of custom designed gas storage vessels (spherical?), but then you'd need to certify them, and would need a transfer / booster pump to fill them. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 31, 2020, 07:11, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Yup, me too. I just thought the visual of squashed scuba tanks might be entertaining. Not all get squashed, though. I think Alvin has titanium air bottles. Which cost, I assume, about as much as an average plug--EACH! Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 11:39 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 I agree with you Vance but that doesn't apply to the majority of the subs the Psubs group are building. I just don't like HP gas in a one atm sub if it can be helped, that's all.Rick On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:17 PM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Okay for shallow subs, Rick, not for deep. HP bottles don't much care for external pressure--will collapse at 3000 psi external (once empty). Alvin, Nautile, and others of the deep diving community (including P4, 5 & 6) all carry their primary HP oxygen storage internally. They have to. Not a psubs issue, obviously, unless your name is Scott Waters. the secondary O2 bank is external on P6 but if these bottles were ever depleted at depth, they would probably have to be replaced after the fact. HP air is different, as they can't be depleted beyond whatever the external pressure is. Oxygen bottles? Not so much.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:41 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 I personally don't believe HP gas has a place inside a one atm sub. I know ketteredge did it but still don't think it should be for three reasons. 1. allows a lot more room in a small confined space, 2. could raise the ppo2 to a fire hazard level before you could secure the problem and 3. You are going to increase your internal pressure much faster and greater if it is HP rather than LP and the least internal?positive pressure pushing the wrong way against the ports and hatch seal while ascending, the better.Reaction time is effected when something like a hose lets go so you may increase?internal pressure faster than one might think. I was being pushed down to 700' in SAT on a job and all the condiments?that are put inside (salade dressing, ketchup, etc) is supposed?to have a hole poked in the top by the tenders and they forgot to do that on a bottle on salad dressing we were using. We were eating dinner while being pressed and the last guy to use it screwed the top on all the way thinking that a hole had been put in it like normal and it imploded while it was sitting right next to me.?It took some time to get our witts about us as we thought a port had let go but other than being covered with broken glass and thousand island dressing, everything was ok. I am keeping all my HP gas outside.Rick ? On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:04 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I am using 5 E size tanks (20cf) in the SeaQuestor. They sit right behind my pilot seat within arms reach. Each are individually valve controlled. Though they are tied to a manifold that holds the digital gauge tied to my plc, so that I only have one digital gauge. No more than one tank at a time would ever be open. Indivudually they have their own digital gauge and flow control, in addition to the digital gauge on the manifold.? This gives me the ability to disconnect a bottle from the digital system in the event the plc goes down, and still control its flow and have the ability to read the tank level. I'm all about redundant systems.Best Regards,David Colombo On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter too. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alec,I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunchof tanks we had for a dive trip.?It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure.A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking.Alan On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire?? In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator.? I love simpleHank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. Best,Alec On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat.? I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank.? If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem.? I am using multiple tanks so all is good. ? I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water.Hank On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks.? I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard.? My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal.? I messed up in two ways.? First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2.? The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank.? So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 15:28:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 20:28:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put E3000 in a pool. ?So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round above ground pool. ?I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the concrete floor. ?I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 feet high and 14 feet diameter. ?I stick weld the joints with an overlap. ?Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 15:51:32 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 20:51:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> No problem if your foundation can take 58K lb load if the thing was fully filled.? Will be flimsy until you fill it.? ?Even then, since you cannot fill it completely due to future insertion of the E3000, unfilled section will be flimsy until the E3000 is inserted.? For safety I would weld some kind of flange on upper edge after it is filled.? ? I like your dig a hole in the backyard with a liner concept better.?? Have you ever heard of the virtue of patience!? If you moved to Texas, you could work year round outside. Cliff On Friday, January 31, 2020, 02:29:11 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put E3000 in a pool. ?So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round above ground pool. ?I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the concrete floor. ?I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 feet high and 14 feet diameter. ?I stick weld the joints with an overlap. ?Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 16:03:06 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 21:03:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <77505199.2208261.1580504586288@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff, I will run some vertical supports from the base to the ceiling joists. ?I like the pool in the yard idea also but I am too impatient, plus I have to work for a month or so starting March. ?Also I have an electric hoist on my new beam I installed ?to lift the sub in and out. ? It's too hot in Texas for this cowboy but my wife says its perfect for her. ?How deep is your pool and how long a drive is it haha.Hank On Friday, January 31, 2020, 1:51:55 PM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No problem if your foundation can take 58K lb load if the thing was fully filled.? Will be flimsy until you fill it.? ?Even then, since you cannot fill it completely due to future insertion of the E3000, unfilled section will be flimsy until the E3000 is inserted.? For safety I would weld some kind of flange on upper edge after it is filled.? ? I like your dig a hole in the backyard with a liner concept better.?? Have you ever heard of the virtue of patience!? If you moved to Texas, you could work year round outside. Cliff On Friday, January 31, 2020, 02:29:11 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put E3000 in a pool. ?So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round above ground pool. ?I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the concrete floor. ?I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 feet high and 14 feet diameter. ?I stick weld the joints with an overlap. ?Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 16:41:46 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 11:41:46 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <77505199.2208261.1580504586288@mail.yahoo.com> References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> <77505199.2208261.1580504586288@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank What paint system did you use for the steel sphere, primer and finish coat? Rick On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Cliff, I will run some vertical supports from the base to the > ceiling joists. I like the pool in the yard idea also but I am too > impatient, plus I have to work for a month or so starting March. Also I > have an electric hoist on my new beam I installed to lift the sub in and > out. It's too hot in Texas for this cowboy but my wife says its perfect > for her. How deep is your pool and how long a drive is it haha. > Hank > > On Friday, January 31, 2020, 1:51:55 PM MST, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > No problem if your foundation can take 58K lb load if the thing was fully > filled. Will be flimsy until you fill it. Even then, since you cannot > fill it completely due to future insertion of the E3000, unfilled section > will be flimsy until the E3000 is inserted. For safety I would weld some > kind of flange on upper edge after it is filled. > > I like your dig a hole in the backyard with a liner concept better. > > Have you ever heard of the virtue of patience! If you moved to Texas, you > could work year round outside. > > Cliff > > On Friday, January 31, 2020, 02:29:11 PM CST, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put > E3000 in a pool. So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round > above ground pool. I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the > concrete floor. I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 > feet high and 14 feet diameter. I stick weld the joints with an overlap. > Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 18:21:11 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 23:21:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> <77505199.2208261.1580504586288@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <532939417.24652.1580512871894@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, just trembled rust paint. ?I am in fresh water plus the sub is only in the water for short periods of time. ?This is actually all I ever use.Hank On Friday, January 31, 2020, 3:38:13 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HankWhat paint system did you use for the steel sphere, primer and finish coat?Rick On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff, I will run some vertical supports from the base to the ceiling joists.? I like the pool in the yard idea also but I am too impatient, plus I have to work for a month or so starting March.? Also I have an electric hoist on my new beam I installed ?to lift the sub in and out. ? It's too hot in Texas for this cowboy but my wife says its perfect for her.? How deep is your pool and how long a drive is it haha.Hank On Friday, January 31, 2020, 1:51:55 PM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No problem if your foundation can take 58K lb load if the thing was fully filled.? Will be flimsy until you fill it.? ?Even then, since you cannot fill it completely due to future insertion of the E3000, unfilled section will be flimsy until the E3000 is inserted.? For safety I would weld some kind of flange on upper edge after it is filled.? ? I like your dig a hole in the backyard with a liner concept better.?? Have you ever heard of the virtue of patience!? If you moved to Texas, you could work year round outside. Cliff On Friday, January 31, 2020, 02:29:11 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put E3000 in a pool.? So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round above ground pool.? I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the concrete floor.? I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 feet high and 14 feet diameter.? I stick weld the joints with an overlap.? Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 17:23:37 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 12:23:37 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <532939417.24652.1580512871894@mail.yahoo.com> References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> <77505199.2208261.1580504586288@mail.yahoo.com> <532939417.24652.1580512871894@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OK thanks Hank. What does trembled mean? Rick On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:22 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, just trembled rust paint. I am in fresh water plus the sub is only > in the water for short periods of time. This is actually all I ever use. > Hank > > On Friday, January 31, 2020, 3:38:13 PM MST, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank > What paint system did you use for the steel sphere, primer and finish coat? > Rick > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Cliff, I will run some vertical supports from the base to the > ceiling joists. I like the pool in the yard idea also but I am too > impatient, plus I have to work for a month or so starting March. Also I > have an electric hoist on my new beam I installed to lift the sub in and > out. It's too hot in Texas for this cowboy but my wife says its perfect > for her. How deep is your pool and how long a drive is it haha. > Hank > > On Friday, January 31, 2020, 1:51:55 PM MST, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > No problem if your foundation can take 58K lb load if the thing was fully > filled. Will be flimsy until you fill it. Even then, since you cannot > fill it completely due to future insertion of the E3000, unfilled section > will be flimsy until the E3000 is inserted. For safety I would weld some > kind of flange on upper edge after it is filled. > > I like your dig a hole in the backyard with a liner concept better. > > Have you ever heard of the virtue of patience! If you moved to Texas, you > could work year round outside. > > Cliff > > On Friday, January 31, 2020, 02:29:11 PM CST, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put > E3000 in a pool. So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round > above ground pool. I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the > concrete floor. I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 > feet high and 14 feet diameter. I stick weld the joints with an overlap. > Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 19:23:31 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 16:23:31 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 Message-ID: <20200131162331.6920BF28@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 19:28:28 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 00:28:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> <77505199.2208261.1580504586288@mail.yahoo.com> <532939417.24652.1580512871894@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1745458210.76547.1580516908033@mail.yahoo.com> Rick Sorry spell check ?tremclad rust paintHank On Friday, January 31, 2020, 5:20:02 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: OK thanks Hank. What does trembled mean?Rick On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:22 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, just trembled rust paint.? I am in fresh water plus the sub is only in the water for short periods of time.? This is actually all I ever use.Hank On Friday, January 31, 2020, 3:38:13 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HankWhat paint system did you use for the steel sphere, primer and finish coat?Rick On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 11:04 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Cliff, I will run some vertical supports from the base to the ceiling joists.? I like the pool in the yard idea also but I am too impatient, plus I have to work for a month or so starting March.? Also I have an electric hoist on my new beam I installed ?to lift the sub in and out. ? It's too hot in Texas for this cowboy but my wife says its perfect for her.? How deep is your pool and how long a drive is it haha.Hank On Friday, January 31, 2020, 1:51:55 PM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No problem if your foundation can take 58K lb load if the thing was fully filled.? Will be flimsy until you fill it.? ?Even then, since you cannot fill it completely due to future insertion of the E3000, unfilled section will be flimsy until the E3000 is inserted.? For safety I would weld some kind of flange on upper edge after it is filled.? ? I like your dig a hole in the backyard with a liner concept better.?? Have you ever heard of the virtue of patience!? If you moved to Texas, you could work year round outside. Cliff On Friday, January 31, 2020, 02:29:11 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put E3000 in a pool.? So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round above ground pool.? I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the concrete floor.? I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 feet high and 14 feet diameter.? I stick weld the joints with an overlap.? Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 19:30:53 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 00:30:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <426893393.71712.1580517053358@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, not only will the 9 sheets of metal make the pool, it will be repurposed to make my new walk in annealing oven.Hank On Friday, January 31, 2020, 1:51:55 PM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: No problem if your foundation can take 58K lb load if the thing was fully filled.? Will be flimsy until you fill it.? ?Even then, since you cannot fill it completely due to future insertion of the E3000, unfilled section will be flimsy until the E3000 is inserted.? For safety I would weld some kind of flange on upper edge after it is filled.? ? I like your dig a hole in the backyard with a liner concept better.?? Have you ever heard of the virtue of patience!? If you moved to Texas, you could work year round outside. Cliff On Friday, January 31, 2020, 02:29:11 PM CST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put E3000 in a pool. ?So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round above ground pool. ?I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the concrete floor. ?I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 feet high and 14 feet diameter. ?I stick weld the joints with an overlap. ?Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 20:17:15 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 17:17:15 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test pool In-Reply-To: <426893393.71712.1580517053358@mail.yahoo.com> References: <949579933.2180465.1580502495315.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <949579933.2180465.1580502495315@mail.yahoo.com> <903383526.10572.1580503892958@mail.yahoo.com> <426893393.71712.1580517053358@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, make sure your oven is big enough to handle my 30 inch domes. David On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 4:31 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, not only will the 9 sheets of metal make the pool, it will be > repurposed to make my new walk in annealing oven. > Hank > > On Friday, January 31, 2020, 1:51:55 PM MST, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > No problem if your foundation can take 58K lb load if the thing was fully > filled. Will be flimsy until you fill it. Even then, since you cannot > fill it completely due to future insertion of the E3000, unfilled section > will be flimsy until the E3000 is inserted. For safety I would weld some > kind of flange on upper edge after it is filled. > > I like your dig a hole in the backyard with a liner concept better. > > Have you ever heard of the virtue of patience! If you moved to Texas, you > could work year round outside. > > Cliff > > On Friday, January 31, 2020, 02:29:11 PM CST, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > I don't think I am patient enough to wait for the ground to thaw to put > E3000 in a pool. So Last summer I bought a heavy pool liner for a round > above ground pool. I want to make a round pool in my shop on top of the > concrete floor. I want to make it from 16 gauge sheet cold roll steel, 6 > feet high and 14 feet diameter. I stick weld the joints with an overlap. > Do you engineer types see any issue with this before I pull the trigger? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 31 21:30:59 2020 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2020 02:30:59 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 In-Reply-To: <20200131162331.6920BF28@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20200131162331.6920BF28@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: No problem with bronze in oxygen service, or in seawater, although dissimilar metal interfaces can precipitate corrosion, so you probably want to use sacrificial zinc anodes to keep everything protected. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan. 31, 2020, 17:23, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, I'm I correct as far as using bronze for thru hull transitions for O2 ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:35:22 +0000 > > There's always the option of custom designed gas storage vessels (spherical?), but then you'd need to certify them, and would need a transfer / booster pump to fill them. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan. 31, 2020, 07:11, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Yup, me too. >> >> I just thought the visual of squashed scuba tanks might be entertaining. >> >> Not all get squashed, though. I think Alvin has titanium air bottles. Which cost, I assume, about as much as an average plug--EACH! >> >> Vance >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 11:39 pm >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 >> >> I agree with you Vance but that doesn't apply to the majority of the subs the Psubs group are building. I just don't like HP gas in a one atm sub if it can be helped, that's all. >> Rick >> >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:17 PM via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Okay for shallow subs, Rick, not for deep. HP bottles don't much care for external pressure--will collapse at 3000 psi external (once empty). Alvin, Nautile, and others of the deep diving community (including P4, 5 & 6) all carry their primary HP oxygen storage internally. They have to. Not a psubs issue, obviously, unless your name is Scott Waters. the secondary O2 bank is external on P6 but if these bottles were ever depleted at depth, they would probably have to be replaced after the fact. HP air is different, as they can't be depleted beyond whatever the external pressure is. Oxygen bottles? Not so much. >>> Vance >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2020 8:41 pm >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 >>> >>> I personally don't believe HP gas has a place inside a one atm sub. I know ketteredge did it but still don't think it should be for three reasons. 1. allows a lot more room in a small confined space, 2. could raise the ppo2 to a fire hazard level before you could secure the problem and 3. You are going to increase your internal pressure much faster and greater if it is HP rather than LP and the least internal positive pressure pushing the wrong way against the ports and hatch seal while ascending, the better. >>> Reaction time is effected when something like a hose lets go so you may increase internal pressure faster than one might think. I was being pushed down to 700' in SAT on a job and all the condiments that are put inside (salade dressing, ketchup, etc) is supposed to have a hole poked in the top by the tenders and they forgot to do that on a bottle on salad dressing we were using. We were eating dinner while being pressed and the last guy to use it screwed the top on all the way thinking that a hole had been put in it like normal and it imploded while it was sitting right next to me. >>> It took some time to get our witts about us as we thought a port had let go but other than being covered with broken glass and thousand island dressing, everything was ok. I am keeping all my HP gas outside. >>> Rick >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:04 PM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Hank, I am using 5 E size tanks (20cf) in the SeaQuestor. They sit right behind my pilot seat within arms reach. Each are individually valve controlled. Though they are tied to a manifold that holds the digital gauge tied to my plc, so that I only have one digital gauge. No more than one tank at a time would ever be open. Indivudually they have their own digital gauge and flow control, in addition to the digital gauge on the manifold. This gives me the ability to disconnect a bottle from the digital system in the event the plc goes down, and still control its flow and have the ability to read the tank level. I'm all about redundant systems. >>>> Best Regards, >>>> David Colombo >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> It is possible to employ burst devices in place of the standard cylinder burst discs which similarly protect the cylinders, but allow for plumbing the exhausting gas overboard instead of venting it into the cabin. Quieter too. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 11:04, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Alec, >>>>>> I have seen one tank empty out. The burst disk went on one of a bunch >>>>>> of tanks we had for a dive trip. >>>>>> It was about 8am so no heat from sunlight to increase pressure. >>>>>> A really loud hisssss for ages. Would sure get you panicking. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 31/01/2020, at 3:33 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, fire as in the Apollo 1 scenario. It's really a hard ABS requirement to meet, because you're already at 21% O2 under normal conditions so any one tank can't contain more than 2% of the cabin volume in O2. I think you'll find that implies the tanks need to be absolutely minuscule. On the plus side, as you say it would take a really, really unusual failure to empty a tank. Make sure the tank valves are readily accessible and not hidden behind anything, and make it a documented SOP for them all to be closed except the one currently discharging. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alec, good point, so the risk with that is fire? In my case, with separate bottles not inter-connected the tank would have to fail or the regulator. I love simple >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 7:02:22 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hank, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In addition to the 1 atm rule Sean mentioned, there is a second requirement. The uncontrolled release of the contents of one tank of O2 should not raise the cabin O2 content above 23 percent. This second condition I suspect you will find more onerous than the first. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Alec >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:31 AM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Plumbing all of your oxygen cylinders into a manifold using check valves should suffice. The idea being that any single failure should not empty the entire bank, and the individual cylinders need to be small enough to keep the total pressure increase below 1 atm if you do happen to lose one. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Examine your entire plumbing system, identifying every connection and the consequences of it failing. Either the consequences need to be acceptable, or you have to have a response plan for that failure. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As far as corrosion protection for through hull fittings, if you overlooked something in design, plating or cladding with corrosion resistant materials can be an option. At work, I have some vessels that I designed in A105 steel (similar to A516 gr 70, but forgings), that I am sending out to have the fluid exposed surfaces clad with Inconel 625 for corrosion resistance. Of course, I'm dealing with much worse stuff than seawater: hydrogen sulphide-saturated acidified high salt brines at elevated temperature. Still, it's always worth a look at costs of such processes versus the lifetime cost of maintenance. I was expecting the cost of cladding to be far higher than the quote I received. On the other side of the coin, I have some parts in the same system with deep holes that can't possibly be clad or painted, so I had to have them machined out of Hastelloy C276. One 8" end cap is worth more than my truck. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>>>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 06:04, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sean, okay that is where I missed the boat. I know about the do not exceed 1 atm rule but did not realize it meant a single tank. If I lost all my O2 it would be a problem. I am using multiple tanks so all is good. I do not have room to drill out the steel plus changing an O2 tank would really suck with this new body. Forget about a change if the sub is in the water. >>>>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 30, 2020, 5:12:49 AM MST, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with internal tanks as long as you can prove by calculation that the unintended release of the contents of any single cylinder (provided they are individually valved - hard plumbed manifolded cylinders where a single failure would empty them all would need to be considered together as one) will not raise the pressure of the occupied space by more than 1 atm. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Through hull shouldn't be a big deal either. Drill larger if necessary, and use a stainless insert. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>>>>> On Jan. 30, 2020, 04:58, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi All, here is an interior picture of Limiting Factor that shows what appears to be O2 tanks. I thought it was not an approved practice to have that much compressed gas onboard. My original design in E3000 was to have external O2 supply but I prefer internal. I messed up in two ways. First off I provided a steel penetrator opening for O2. The other screw up is when I built the new body I completely neglected access to change out the tank. So I am going with internal tanks unless someone can talk me out of it. >>>>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>>>> [Image result for deep sea limiting factor images] >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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