[PSUBS-MAILIST] GRP hatch

Wed Apr 29 23:03:25 EDT 2020

Hank, I hope you had your seat belt on and thanks for the update on the arm
Alec!
Rick

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 4:46 PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Wow, hope you're OK Hank. Knowing you, "slightly injured" might mean a
> limb gone here or there.
>
> Guys, the new arm is done and the parts are currently being anodized. I
> should have them back in a couple of days for final assembly. However, I
> then have the rather complicated task of integrating it with my sub. I
> don't have anything to bolt it onto, and want to make it jettison-able.
> Plus, I have to weld in through-hulls and haven't started on the controls.
> Then I'll have to revisit my drawings, because I did some R&D and design
> changes during fabrication. All told I'm at least a month from completing
> the package including documentation, as drawing something often takes
> longer than making it. The arm very closely resembles what you see on the
> E3000 (Hank has made a number of them, but that's his latest). Once the
> package is complete, the idea is to put it up on PSUBS as an open source
> manipulator. I can assure you it will be nice and simple to fabricate.
> Except for a collection of spacers that require a lathe, everything can be
> made with a drill press and hand tools. Recently I've been making sub parts
> for others, so if anyone needs the spacers I can help with those. Or I'm
> game for whole arms too, but I think you'll all find it pretty straight
> forward to fabricate. Anyway... there'll be an update in a few days when I
> get this thing back together.
>
> Best,
> Alec
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:55 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> Rick. Yes my emergency shelter is in the ground and a shed on top etc.  I
>>  had an incedent  putting it in the ground. When we flopped it into the
>> trench, it hooked my excavator and flipped the machine on its side.  I was
>> slightly injured lol.  A hydraulic arm is much harder to make and will cost
>> twice as much and not work as well.  Talk to Alec about the plans. He has
>> improved it so it is easy to build.
>> Hank
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I am leaning towards a Hydraulic arm rather than an electric like the one
>> you just did as I feel I personally would have a easier time making it.
>> What if any would be the drawbacks of going Hydraulic vs electric? Did you
>> get your fall out shelter buried yet?
>> Rick
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:06 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Rick, I did not try it in water, but did run it on land.  I don't ever
>>> make drawings of arms, I just find material and go for it.  Alec is almost
>>> finished building a copy of my arm and will be posting plans for it soon I
>>> imagine.
>>> Hank
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 5:58:49 PM MDT, Rick Patton via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hank
>>> Did you get a chance to try the arm in the water? either way, how did it
>>> work and do you have any schematics for it?
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Rick, yes it has a hydraulic arm and I built it.
>>> Hank
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 4:12:56 PM MDT, Rick Patton via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hank,
>>> I see a mechanical arm on it. Is it Hydraulic or electric and did you
>>> build the arm or buy it?
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:50 AM James Frankland via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah yes, i think i remember that one.  Looks good.
>>>
>>> Now i understand what you are all talking about.
>>>
>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 10:33, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi James,  this is a little Deep Worker style sub I built in 2012\13  I
>>> think.  I was working on it when I suddenly had the opportunity to buy
>>> Gamma.  I just pushed it aside to work on Gamma and eventually stripped it
>>> for parts.  It has been sitting outside under cover all these years.
>>> E-3000 is getting a new paint job right now after some fibreglass repairs.
>>>   I can't take it out for test dives and pressure test, so I need a project
>>> for the summer.
>>> I always liked how compact this little sub is.  It will be a fun little
>>> sub that is real easy to handle at well under 2,000 lbs.  As you well know,
>>> that is a real treat.
>>> Hank
>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 2:04:57 AM MDT, James Frankland via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hank, which sub is this?  Are you doing another along with elementary?
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 28 April 2020, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alan, true. I am going to put the hull together and throw it in a pond
>>> with enough weight inside and outside to sink it.  I can hang it off my
>>> excavator to add weight in stages.  This way I can experiment with it to
>>> find the sweet spot.  That is the nice thing about this sub-it is so light
>>> and tiny.
>>> Hank
>>> Got the new leg tube on today
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:44:56 PM MDT, Alan via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hank,
>>> if it were me I would test it out with a support person & push the
>>> conning
>>> tower from side to side at various stages of descent & ascent.
>>> If you know it can't turn completely upside down & you are comfortable,
>>> or
>>> get used to it you might want to live with it. After all it's only a few
>>> seconds of
>>> instability over the period of the dive.
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29/04/2020, at 6:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alan, that is exactly the idea I have.  The MBT's can be in an L shape
>>> with a smaller portion extending part way up the CT. Or like you said an
>>> independent MBT behind the CT, you can't see behind anyways.  The CT is
>>> buoyant under water by about 80 lbs so its just a matter of getting under.
>>> Hank
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 12:11:15 PM MDT, Alan via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hank,
>>> what about a ballast tank behind your head outside the conning tower.
>>> From memory you would probably have the same problem but just not
>>> as bad if you lightened the hatch.
>>> It looked to have a lot of floatation in the conning tower area, so you
>>> may
>>> topple over but not turn upside down. Dive & ascent really quickly?
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> On 29/04/2020, at 3:28 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hank,
>>>
>>> I'm only aware of a couple of subs with composite hulls, and the thing
>>> is I understand them to be not hand laid but constructed by the
>>> computer-controlled spinning of a single strand on a big megabucks machine.
>>> And even then, I'heard they discovered voids when cutting the hull open.
>>>
>>> The trick might be just to concentrate on emptying those MBT really fast
>>> by using bigger valves or more of them. That, or an MBT design that reduces
>>> the free surface area during diving, or which divides the surface areas
>>> into smaller ones via internal MBT bulkheads. I'm guessing you have
>>> something like that in mind?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alec
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:13 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alec, yes it is a bit out there.  I was thinking I would clamp one to
>>> the K350 hatch and sink it to test depth for testing.  I figures if there
>>> are GRP hulls then why not a hatch.  I do have a design for MBT's that
>>> could  solve the problem.  The sub is fine when submerged.  Maybe that is
>>> the safest solution
>>> Hank
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 8:05:13 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Hank,
>>>
>>> Personally I'd have to research stress calculations in GRP before going
>>> that route. But even once that were figured out, the build variations in
>>> hand-laid GRP would make me sceptical of my own calculations. I suppose the
>>> alternative would be to make a number of them and test to destruction. It
>>> would have to be a number of them, not just a single sample, because
>>> evaluating standard deviation would be just as important as confirming the
>>> depth rating. That's rather painful, so for my part I'd look at
>>> other solutions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alec
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:50 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alec, I think Mike has a submarine parts warehouse lol.  I would like to
>>> use what I have, just so I don't have to make too many major
>>> modifications.  Have you ever heard od a GRP hatch?
>>> Hank
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:44:51 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via
>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org
>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Hank,
>>>
>>> May I suggest speaking to Mike Caudle? He has two acrylic cylinder CTs,
>>> complete with hatches and all, that are beauties but I believe much lower
>>> displacement than the one on your project sub, and very lightweight because
>>> they are aluminum. If you can arrange a swap or something, one of those
>>> might be just what you need.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Alec
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
>>> org <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All, I am have some real trouble with my DW style sub mods. If you
>>> recall it has an acrylic cylinder CT and a K350 hatch.  My problem is, the
>>> sub lacks volume to support the heavy hatch\land assembly.  I do plan to
>>> increase the volume by installing a larger diameter leg tube.  This volume
>>> increase is still not enough to give me enough buoyancy for stability
>>> during transition from surface to being submerged.  Options are to loose
>>> the cylinder and go with dome.   Make a lightweight hatch with GRP, or come
>>> up with a creative MBT that maintains buoyancy longer during submerging.
>>> Hank
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