[PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical

Wed Jan 3 21:38:28 EST 2018

Thanks Sean, 
good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now.
the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all submarines.
In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large deisel electric
( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank
& starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim.
BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all.
http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm
I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good or bad?
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally.
> 
> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use a greater number of smaller vessels.
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan,        It's a long list !    What I need to do is make a check list of things I have wrong ;-)    and  then "things I have wrong but can maybe slide on"  !    One question, right of the bat,  with that O2 not being able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere,  I'm not understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are already at one atm ?
>  
> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could really get an idea of what I need !    For instance I know I need an additional ballast tank HP cylinder. 
>  
> Brian 
>  
> 
> 
> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:
> 
> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical
> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300
> 
> Brian,
> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or
> ABS. 
> Alan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Great info Alan !           BTW  I need to pick your brain on some of the Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent.
>  
> Brian
>  
>   
> 
> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:
> 
> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical
> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300
> 
> Brian, 
> here is a link with some info.
> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider
> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will 
> probably run a course if they have a few interested people.
> Alan
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Brian,
> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2.
> Now have a card with my face on it.
> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager
> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2.
> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. 
> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card
> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it
> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers.
> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card.
> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much
> more expensive & intense.
> Cheers Alan
>  
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan,           What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ?
>  
> Brian
> 
> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote:
> 
> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical
> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300
> 
> Steve,
> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing.
> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy)
> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop.
> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first.
> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage.
> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical)
> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm
> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop
> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were 
> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or 
> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive
> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) 
> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't
> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some
> sort of certificate from you before they fill.
> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but
> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs.
> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers.
> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via
> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure 
> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of
> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of
> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ 
> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only
> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub
> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly.
> Cheers Alan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.  Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed.
> 
> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.  After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02.  As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination.
> 
> I am wondering how others are managing.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20180104/0548645b/attachment.html>