[PSUBS-MAILIST] Ethical obligation to inform

Fri Jul 14 15:36:55 EDT 2017

The problems with rules are:
Over the year they get real MONSTERS.

Fiktiv Sample:

Original rule:
A Psub should have a drop weight

Rev1
A Psub should have a drop weight.
It should be tested during commissioning.

Rev2
A Psub should have a drop weight.
It should be tested during commissioning.
The releaser must be done handoperate and the force to relase shall not 
extend 30 pound.

Rev3
A Psub should have a drop weight.
It should be tested during commissioning.
The releaser must be done handoperate and the force to relase shall not 
extend 30 pound.
A Inspecteur must on the spot during test.

Rev4
A Psub should have a drop weight.
It should be tested during commissioning.
The releaser must be done handoperate and the force to relase shall not 
extend 30 pound.
A Inspecteur must on the spot during test.
The indicator which shows the force has to be calibrate, and the 
calibration certification has to be on the spot.

Rev4
A Psub should have a drop weight.
It should be tested during commissioning.
The releaser must be done handoperate and the force to relase shall not 
extend 30 pound.
A Inspecteur must on the spot during test.
The indicator which shows the force has to be calibrate, and the 
calibration certification has to be on the spot.
The company which build the indicator has to certified according to ISO 
somewhat.

Rev5
A Psub should have a drop weight.
It should be tested during commissioning.
The releaser must be done handoperate and the force to relase shall not 
extend 30 pound.
A Inspecteur must on the spot during test.
The indicator which shows the force has to be calibrate, and the 
calibration certification has to be on the spot.
The company which build the indicator has to certified according to ISO 
somewhat.

Rev6
A Psub should have a drop weight.
It should be tested during commissioning.
The releaser must be done handoperate and the force to relase shall not 
extend 30 pound.
A Inspecteur must on the spot during test.
The indicator which shows the force has to be calibrate, and the 
calibration certification has to be on the spot.
The company which build the indicator has to certified according to ISO 
somewhat.
Before the drop release test can be done, a stability calculation for the 
sub has to be made.

Rev7
A Psub should have a drop weight.
It should be tested during commissioning.
The releaser must be done handoperate and the force to relase shall not 
extend 30 pound.
A Inspecteur must on the spot during test.
The indicator which shows the force has to be calibrate, and the 
calibration certification has to be on the spot.
The company which build the indicator has to certified according to ISO 
somewhat.
Before the drop release test can be done, a stability calculation for the 
sub has to be made.
The guy how make the calculation has to be a naval engineer and the 
certificate calculation has to cross check be a classification.

Okay boys - choose your Revison.  And explain why..

My point:
If the boat is use commercial, is build for sale and or transport payed 
guest.
Than it should be revised by a classification.
All none comercial homebuild can be build according to Charles Dawin.
The bad ones will be select out by mother nature..

vbr Carsten

-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ethical obligation to inform
Datum: 2017-07-14T17:33:14+0200
Von: "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Alan,

My thoughts.

Will Kohnen and I are not strangers, neither is PSUBS a stranger to MTS.  
As organizations, we have attended their conventions and they have attended 
ours.  Therefore, I find it rather presumptuous for MTS to consider 
promoting rules affecting personal submarines without first notifying us 
that they were doing so and without inviting us up-front as a primary 
contributor.  Having heard of it second hand through the grapevine as it 
were, we are now suppose to feel assured that our input and contributions 
will be valued?  What weight is given to our input?  How do we resolve 
disputes?  Is there a voting system, or does MTS just accept/discard our 
contributions arbitrarily because they have "smart people who really 
understand submarines" on their committee?

Logic has to make sense in all directions so let's try reversing this 
situation.  How about PSUBS starts a committee to promote the rules and 
regulations we believe should be used as a guide for government agencies, 
and to be thorough we will include rules that affect commercial and 
research submarines as well because we want a unifying set of regulations.  
Seamagine, Pisces, Nuytco, U-Boat Worx, Atlantis, and all research 
submarines such as Alvin will have to abide by the rules that PSUBS submits 
to the government...and by the way, we aren't going to ask representatives 
from any of those disciplines to join us but if they hear about this rule 
making activity via word-of-mouth then we'll tell them they can contribute 
their ideas.  Sound like a good, rational, logical plan?

I have reached out to the CG and US Navy more than once in the past 21 
years to foster a relationship with PSUBS.  The only reaction I have ever 
gotten from them is that they are not interested in regulating personal 
submarines.  So why is MTS so intent on creating rules that restrict 
personal submarines?  That is not a rhetorical question.

Jon

On Friday, July 14, 2017 8:48 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Jon,
Scott said that if anyone wanted to contribute to contact Will Konen.
Perhaps you could approach him on our behalf & convey our desire
to be involved in the process. There were a couple of Psubbers involved
in the submersible side of UI when I was there. I think Vance & Lance!
Will had a slot to fill in the lectures & asked me to talk on Psubs ( I 
declined),
so he seems to have a pretty positive attitude toward us. As he heads the
submersible side of the UI he has been a target & questioned by groups
like Coast Guard about "what do we do about submarines". They have been
wanting him to draught regulations for years & he has been trying to avoid
it. 
In my thinking, the only real issue with submersible operations is 
surfacing,
where a submarine may come up in the path of a surface craft. Perhaps
some regulations on the support boat having to display a dive flag & be
in communication with the submersible, or a buoy deployed from the 
submarine prior to surfacing in autonomous use.
In N.Z. you can make a small boat in your backyard & take it out in a 
howling
gale & 5 metre swells, with the one proviso that you wear a life jacket;
so I don't think making submarine rules regarding sea-worthiness would be 
relevant.
Alan

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