[PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report

Sat Aug 26 18:53:30 EDT 2017

The LED driver I am using
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/recom-power/RCD-24-1.20-W/945-1133-ND/2256313
It combines both buck boost converter switching and pulse width dimming
switching in the same enclosure.  Not sure which part is causing the noise.

Cliff

On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 5:02 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I'm curious whether the noise is coming from the buck boost converter
> switching, or the pulse width dimming switching. When I was designing a PWM
> dimming driver I had the switching frequency as high as I could get it,
> trying to get it above the auditory frequency range of dolphins.
>
> River J Dolfi
> Rdolfi7 at gmail.com
> 412-997-2526 <(412)%20997-2526>
>
> On Aug 26, 2017 5:40 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
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>    1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report... (Alan via Personal_Submersibles)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:39:10 +1200
> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
> Message-ID: <85DB48D2-EF52-4624-9257-7786F10B799D at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Cliff,
> didn't know the electronics were in the light.
> Another experiment, if the suppressor doesn't work could be to put
> electronics in the hull.
> Have some other ideas, but see how you go!
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 27/08/2017, at 8:57 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >
> > Alan, let me do some playing with the LED drivers I have installed.  As
> I have my drivers installed in the body of the LED lights, and body is
> quite small with a custom PCB, I would not have room for a larger driver.
> Let me see how this noise suppressor works first.
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >> Cliff,
> >> my original buck / boost LED drivers made audible noise at certain
> >> settings. I mentioned this to an electronics friend, who said that
> >> it was to do with the tuning of the unit.
> >> I had 10 new units made up for me in China, at a factory that seems
> >> to produce a lot of these buck / boost DC drivers. I made mention
> >> of the noise problem & was specific that I wanted a 36V fixed output,
> >> along with dimming & on off switch.
> >> These new units are a lot audibly quieter. I am guessing they can
> achieve
> >> this easier by not having to also cater for the wide output range.
> >> They can operate from about 12V through to 54V. I am now wondering
> >> whether having a narrower input power band would help even more.
> >> Whether the audible noise corresponds to electrical noise in the
> frequency
> >> that interferes with your coms, I do not know.
> >> I can send you one of these drivers for testing if you like, as this is
> a problem
> >> I will be encountering. Just send me your address.
> >> alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com
> >> The units are designed to output 75W, but this can be dialled down on
> >> the dimming pot, or buy a more suitable pot. Again, if the unit ( in
> your case)
> >> was designed to output at 50 W then possibly there would be less noise.
> >> It would be interesting to see if dimming them increased the noise.
> >> Alan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On 27/08/2017, at 7:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> That is an interesting point about the even with your OTS SSB-2010
> unit running off AA batteries, you hear noise when the DC-DC converter is
> on.  I was hoping this noise filter I ordered would do the trick but it
> sounds like maybe , maybe not.  I have a friend that works for ATT and he
> also thinks it noise coming in on the power to the OTS unit.  What I am
> hoping it is not is acoustic coupling.  My transducer is mounted to the FRP
> shell behind the pilot.  I am hoping it is not picking up this noise
> through vibrations through the FRP shell.
> >>>
> >>> I well let you know what I learn from the test.
> >>>
> >>> Cliff
> >>>
> >>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Alec Smyth via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>> Hi Cliff,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll be following that with interest! In Shackleton I have a DC-DC
> converter to step down the 36 volts to 12 for hotel loads. The 12V
> converter output is connected in parallel to a small 12V battery and to
> hotel loads, the idea being that I charge the 12V battery pre-dive and
> switch off the converter while diving to avoid interference. The OTS unit I
> use in native mode, on separate AA batteries to avoid electrical noise, but
> despite this if the DC-DC converter is running it interferes with the comms
> to the point of rendering them useless. If the noise filter is successful
> it would let me charge the hotel battery from the big banks while diving,
> or use the converter as backup, without losing comms.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>>
> >>>> Alec
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Cliff Redus via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>>> As a lot of you use the OTS underwater comes on your boats so I
> thought I would share with you an issue that came up on the Islamorada
> trip.  When I tried to use the OTS comms with my new  LED lights on, I
> noticed a loud hum in the OTS headset.  When we got the boat back on the
> dock, we did some testing plugging and unplugging the Subcon disconnects to
> each of the four lights.  What we found was a cumulative affect, each light
> adding to the noise.  These lights use a switching LED driver.  There
> seemed to be the same noise level when the lights were on submerged as on
> the surface so think the noise is electrically coupled not acoustically.
> On my boat to keep from changing out AA batteries in the OTS SSB-2010 unit,
> I removed the battery pack and replace it with an circular electrical
> disconnect that brings in 12VDC from boat bus.  I use a DC-DC converter to
> power this bus.  I am thinking this is a non isolated converter.   I spoke
> with the OTS engineers and they said i!
>  t was a common problem when folks that make this change  and the solution
> was to use a DC noise filter on the power supplied to the unit that
> isolates both the positive and negative power feeds going into the unit.
> They also suggested using an isolated DC power supply.  To test this I
> ordered a Palomar Engineers RFI-DC-30 which is a common mode noise filter
> http://palomar-engineers.com/rfi-kits/home-alarm-system-rfi-
> kit#!/DC-Voltage-Common-Mode-Noise-Filter/p/74356250.
> >>>>> Also I hear the thrusters as well as the emergency pinger in the OTS
> gear.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the next couple of weeks I plan on doing a shop test to see if
> this works.  I will report on what I find.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cliff
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Cliff Redus <
> cliffordredus at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom
> and dad for hosting us last week. You guys  did a magnificent job. This was
> the best sub trip of my life!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and
> mailed them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the
> 2017 Psub Regatta.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key
> points were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9
> miles from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of
> 93F and RH of 80%.  Average speed was about 4.5 MPH.  As long as we ran
> partially submerged to was hot but fine.  This was a test dive to see if we
> could get out deeper.  Water was not clear at this location. The deeper
> dive on Aug 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water.  The 7.8 miles from
> Doug's house (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so
> even thought the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it
> was a smooth tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second
> dive site the water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells.
> Could see the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler.  The tow back was
> rough.  With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster
> both in the boat and in the s!
>  ub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at 4.5 MPH, 94F and
> 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours.  I did not loose my cookies
> but it was close.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender
> vessel with launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without
> towing.  Towing subs sucks.  All survived but I used up all my on board
> water and upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of
> water.  We were all pretty whipped.  All  in all, it was quite an adventure.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> More latter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cliff
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the
> 4-day
> >>>>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st,
> August
> >>>>>>> 1-3).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup
> day
> >>>>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was
> unfortunate
> >>>>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands
> >>>>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough
> time
> >>>>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic
> diving.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell,
> >>>>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation
> diver
> >>>>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this
> >>>>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge
> and
> >>>>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have
> chatted
> >>>>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned
> the
> >>>>>>> tow line and helped with comms.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men.
> >>>>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were
> >>>>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I
> think
> >>>>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one
> of
> >>>>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift
> for
> >>>>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always
> >>>>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd
> like
> >>>>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned
> more
> >>>>>>> than I can remember last week.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing
> whatever
> >>>>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the
> canal
> >>>>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was
> getting
> >>>>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able
> to
> >>>>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We
> >>>>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we
> did
> >>>>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot
> about
> >>>>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the
> tow
> >>>>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided
> that
> >>>>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to
> OTS
> >>>>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the
> >>>>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the
> Whaler!
> >>>>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow
> did
> >>>>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent
> about
> >>>>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about,
> >>>>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time
> Cliff
> >>>>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at
> 4.5
> >>>>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water
> >>>>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I
> think
> >>>>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
> >>>>>>> accomplishment with the mission.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better
> tow
> >>>>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our
> boat
> >>>>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't
> so
> >>>>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs
> to
> >>>>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel
> >>>>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and
> then
> >>>>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat
> and
> >>>>>>> sub to track straight).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the
> waves
> >>>>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like
> this
> >>>>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At
> dinner,
> >>>>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that
> can
> >>>>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming
> tow
> >>>>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support
> >>>>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of
> >>>>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will
> lend
> >>>>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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