[PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...

Thu Aug 10 15:07:53 EDT 2017

Thanks for the feedback Vance.  There is a lot of good advise in your email
on towing subs gained from many years of experience.

We missed you.  We did discuss using a sea anchor but did not have the
material on site to make one.  I am happy with the thruster arrangement.
It is now easy to rotate in place.  Yes top speed is off but I am happy
with trade off on better low speed maneuverability.

Hope to get up to Kansas and see how you and Scott or getting on with a
proper boat.

Best Regards

Cliff

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 9:13 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> A simpler way is to tow a drogue behind the sub. Works a treat, even in
> big seas. I've surfed down the face of enough 12 to 15 footers to know,
> too. We used a simple metal hoop one meter in diameter with a shallow
> canvas sock, and an attachment line about 25 meters long. A single Yamaha
> probably wouldn't be too happy with one that size.You'll need an attachment
> point aft, of course.
>
> Try something a foot across, probably not more than eighteen inches. Rig
> it with a 3 legged yoke about 5 times the length of your drogue diameter to
> a center shackle for the tow line, and put a couple of nokalon buoys on the
> line down on the working end to keep it afloat when you aren't pulling. Use
> dacron line, not nylon (too stretchy) or poly (too many knots).
>
> As for the yawing, most people don't get this, but the secret is to
> INCREASE the rate of tow. Otherwise the pull and release of tension lets
> the sub ride up and then plunge, and in between times, any slack at all
> lets it hunt left or right before the tow line snatches you straight again.
> And then the next wave comes and the process repeats.That seemed to be your
> problem coming back in.
>
> Practically speaking, It doesn't really make any difference if the sub
> tows underwater, or partly underwater. Aquarius and the Pisces boats tow
> from astern, and they take on a pretty steep angle, too.
>
> From the thruster positioning, I would suspect the R300 to have been a lot
> more maneuverable than before, if a little slow in the process. That's a
> pretty long lever. Star II had an aft pair of thrusters rigged like that,
> although further apart. HURL repositioned them 1/3 of the boat length
> forward and were a whole lot happier.
>
> Great video. I am surely sorry to have missed this trip.
>
> Vance
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.
> org>
> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Aug 8, 2017 6:45 pm
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
>
> Hi Cliff,
> Great to hear about all your experiences.  Well done.
> Have you considered fitting a small foil to the bow, just for towing, to
> allow your sub to be towed faster and get the nose up.  Pulling from lower
> down would be problematic in that it would increase tendency to roll and
> yaw methinks.
> Cheers,
>
> Hugh
>
> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-
> bounces at psubs.org <personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org?>] *On Behalf
> Of *Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:14 AM
> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
>
> Hank, I think that this is possible.  Have been giving it some thought.
> What I would really like is the 11.5 m long, 4.3m beam powered aluminum
> catamaran sub tender that Dan Lance showed us at the Regatta.  The vessel
> is designed to transport and  launch two Psubs with a cruising speed of
> 25knots.  Got to have deep pockets to built it.  But can you imagine a
> floating psub convention in the Bahamas or Roatan !  We would have people
> stacked up wanting to attend.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:07 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Cliff,
> Sounds like a great time!  you are lucky that R-300 is so small.  You can
> build a pontoon style launch cradle that can ballast up or down.  You can
> transport the sub in the cradle on one trailer.  You can tow the sub to
> your dive site, then get in in comfort and safety.
> Hank
>
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2017, 5:51:35 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Cliff.
> I am wanting to glean as much as I can from this for my build!
> When you've recovered; do you think some sort of snorkel system with fresh
> air flowing in would have helped? Did you cover the dome while towing?
> What sort of towing speed were you getting when you weren't submerged?
> How was manoeuvrability this time round?
> Cheers Alan
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 8/08/2017, at 11:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Big thanks Doug for posting dive report and for you and your mom and dad
> for hosting us last week. You guys  did a magnificent job. This was the
> best sub trip of my life!
>
> I spend the day organizing the video and pictures from the trip and mailed
> them to Alec who has graciously agree to edit into a video of the 2017
> Psub Regatta.
>
> I still need to review the data I logged from the trips but the key points
> were the first ocean side dive was to the coral heads which is 3.9 miles
> from Doug's house so 7.8 miles total tow with average cabin temp of 93F and
> RH of 80%.  Average speed was about 4.5 MPH.  As long as we ran partially
> submerged to was hot but fine.  This was a test dive to see if we could get
> out deeper.  Water was not clear at this location. The deeper dive on Aug
> 3rd was out to the edge of the deep water.  The 7.8 miles from Doug's house
> (bay side) to the dive site was smooth and we ran submerged so even thought
> the cabin temp and RH were high, it was not bad at all as it was a smooth
> tow and there were thinks to see on way out. At the second dive site the
> water was 100 ft deep and very clear with 4-6 ft swells.  Could see
> the sub on the bottom from the Boston Whaler.  The tow back was rough.
> With 4-6 ft following seas, it was like being on a roller coaster both in
> the boat and in the sub. Second dive had a total of 15.6 miles of towing at
> 4.5 MPH, 94F and 84% RH and hatch closed time of around 5 hours.  I did not
> loose my cookies but it was close.
>
> As Doug noted, the consensus of all was that we need a tender vessel with
> launch capability to get the subs out to the dive sites without towing.
> Towing subs sucks.  All survived but I used up all my on board water and
> upon making it back to the beach, consumed several gallon of water.  We
> were all pretty whipped.  All  in all, it was quite an adventure.
>
> More latter.
>
> Cliff
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the 4-day
> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August
> 1-3).
>
> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day
> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was unfortunate
> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands
> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time
> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic diving.
>
> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell,
> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
>
> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation diver
> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this
> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and
> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have chatted
> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the
> tow line and helped with comms.
>
> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men.
> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were
> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think
> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
>
> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of
> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for
> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always
> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like
> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned more
> than I can remember last week.
>
> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever
> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
>
> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal
> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting
> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
>
> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to
> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We
> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though we did
> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot about
> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point the tow
> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that
> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio to OTS
> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the
> bottom at 100 − 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler!
> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did
> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent about
> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about,
> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff
> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5
> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water
> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I think
> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
> accomplishment with the mission.
>
> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow
> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat
> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so
> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to
> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel
> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then
> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and
> sub to track straight).
>
> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves
> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like this
> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner,
> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can
> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow
> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support
> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of
> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend
> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
>
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