[PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34
Alan via Personal_Submersibles
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Wed Aug 9 23:02:28 EDT 2017
Thanks River,
Cliff & I have one person subs so Peltiers could end up our
preferred option, but may well prove uneconomical in power
to make a difference in a larger sub. Also as you point out,
contaminants from a refrigeration unit aren't good, especially
in a smaller enclosure.
Just found my peltier, & wow it gets hot quick, & the cooling
ability is relative to how well you can get rid of that heat.
It's 1&1/2" square & is 70W. So for 6 square inches of area you
get 1,120W of heating / cooling at $3- each.
http://www.gearbest.com/other-accessories/pp_142071.html?vip=766773&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIurqE_cXL1QIVR3S9Ch1pqg9VEAAYAiAAEgLN3vD_BwE
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 10/08/2017, at 2:12 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Alan,
> Commercial airliners use air as the working fluid in their refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Having a noxious chemical refrigerant leak into an enclosed space doesn't seem too appealing to me. I can't say I've browsed the section on air conditioning in ABS or GL, but prohibition of onboard refrigerant wouldn't surprise me.
>
>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>>
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org
>>
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>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
>> (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:01:02 +0800
>> From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles
>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50,
>> Issue 19
>> Message-ID: <53ff605b-589f-255d-1a5a-f13ab724c7e2 at archivale.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Right - that will work fine with a metal hull!
>>
>> Best,
>> Marc
>>
>> On 8/10/2017 9:33 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>> > Mark,
>> > you don't need any through hulls, just glue them on to your hull with
>> > a heat transfer compound. The heat will go through the hull to the surrounding
>> > water but will also radiate laterally through the metal; hence my suggestion
>> > to insulate around the area a bit so that the cold or heat can't come back in to
>> > the hull.
>> > Alan
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> >> On 10/08/2017, at 1:19 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers. That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it were mine.
>> >>
>> >> Marc
>> >>
>> >>> On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>> >>> Hi Alan,
>> >>> Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although wonderfully simple in operation.
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Steve
>> >>> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>> Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater.
>> >>> In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating!
>> >>> This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential.
>> >>> I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround
>> >>> them
>> >>> with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back
>> >>> the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water.
>> >>> Another bunny trail to investigate.
>> >>> Cheers Alan
>> >>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>> On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>> Mike,
>> >>>> the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor
>> >>>> system, but Cliff
>> >>>> & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by
>> >>>> reversing polarity.
>> >>>> I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with
>> >>>> resistive coils;
>> >>>> probably poor! Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass
>> >>>> outer & dig back
>> >>>> the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the
>> >>>> reverse side of
>> >>>> the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy
>> >>>> if he put some
>> >>>> shark gills in it for water ingress.
>> >>>> Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of
>> >>>> heat in.
>> >>>> We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada.
>> >>>> Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air
>> >>>> conditioner to cool
>> >>>> the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that
>> >>>> benefit would
>> >>>> last being towed out that distance.
>> >>>> Cheers Alan
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the
>> >>>>> small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys,
>> >>>>> aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an
>> >>>>> inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling
>> >>>>> versus DC current used. Mike Patterson
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sent from my Samsung device
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -------- Original message --------
>> >>>>> From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>> Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> >>>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to
>> >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>> <http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >>>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >>>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Today's Topics:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>> (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles)
>> >>>>> 2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>> (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Message: 1
>> >>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500
>> >>>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> >>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>> Message-ID:
>> >>>>> <CAK4DN4DuhY87_6v+19RNb-6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg at mail.gmail.com
>> >>>>> <mailto:CAK4DN4DuhY87_6v+19RNb-6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg at mail.gmail.com>>
>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on
>> >>>>> viewport. I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to
>> >>>>> taking off
>> >>>>> but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the
>> >>>>> dive, this
>> >>>>> treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board. The other
>> >>>>> issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became
>> >>>>> soaked with
>> >>>>> sweat. As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation
>> >>>>> off after
>> >>>>> the two hour tow to the dive site. Action items: Have small
>> >>>>> bottle of
>> >>>>> Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers. I have quite a
>> >>>>> bit of
>> >>>>> battery capacity so this could work. Unfortunately, mounting on
>> >>>>> hull won't
>> >>>>> work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the
>> >>>>> hull so I
>> >>>>> don't have a cool surface to mount on. I do have a pair of
>> >>>>> plugged off
>> >>>>> ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to
>> >>>>> cooling water
>> >>>>> source if I installed a small pump on this circuit. Pushing this
>> >>>>> water
>> >>>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled
>> >>>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not
>> >>>>> humidity. At
>> >>>>> Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive
>> >>>>> was about
>> >>>>> 87F so this would not have helped all that much. A small DC AC
>> >>>>> system that
>> >>>>> controlled both temperature and humidity would be better.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy
>> >>>>> with how
>> >>>>> this worked. I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4"
>> >>>>> SS tubing
>> >>>>> that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator
>> >>>>> (thanks Hugh) under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not
>> >>>>> sure if a
>> >>>>> single regulator would work or if I would need one for each
>> >>>>> thruster but it
>> >>>>> looks like one was adequate. I have had two deep dives with the
>> >>>>> arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no
>> >>>>> issues with
>> >>>>> water in the thrusters.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best Regards
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Cliff
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
>> >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> > Thanks Cliff,
>> >>>>> > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!
>> >>>>> > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!
>> >>>>> > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier
>> >>>>> elements &
>> >>>>> > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the
>> >>>>> > efficiency
>> >>>>> > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by
>> >>>>> reversing
>> >>>>> > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier
>> >>>>> elements stuck to
>> >>>>> > the hull
>> >>>>> > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what
>> >>>>> > batteries you
>> >>>>> > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will
>> >>>>> make energy
>> >>>>> > expenditure less of an issue!
>> >>>>> > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator?
>> >>>>> Couldn't see
>> >>>>> > any
>> >>>>> > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't
>> >>>>> building up too
>> >>>>> > much
>> >>>>> > when exhausting.
>> >>>>> > Cheers Alan
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
>> >>>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs
>> >>>>> Regatta. The
>> >>>>> > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3
>> >>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw
>> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw> and the second is a
>> >>>>> night
>> >>>>> > dive in front of Doug's house
>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI
>> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI>.
>> >>>>> > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Regards
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Cliff
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles <
>> >>>>> > personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on
>> >>>>> the 4-day
>> >>>>> >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st,
>> >>>>> August
>> >>>>> >> 1-3).
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival /
>> >>>>> setup day
>> >>>>> >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was
>> >>>>> unfortunate
>> >>>>> >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands
>> >>>>> >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had
>> >>>>> enough time
>> >>>>> >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic
>> >>>>> diving.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell,
>> >>>>> >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired)
>> >>>>> saturation diver
>> >>>>> >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this
>> >>>>> >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his
>> >>>>> knowledge and
>> >>>>> >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have
>> >>>>> chatted
>> >>>>> >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan
>> >>>>> manned the
>> >>>>> >> tow line and helped with comms.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men.
>> >>>>> >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were
>> >>>>> >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I
>> >>>>> think
>> >>>>> >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is
>> >>>>> one of
>> >>>>> >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a
>> >>>>> gift for
>> >>>>> >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always
>> >>>>> >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone
>> >>>>> who'd like
>> >>>>> >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I
>> >>>>> learned more
>> >>>>> >> than I can remember last week.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing
>> >>>>> whatever
>> >>>>> >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the
>> >>>>> canal
>> >>>>> >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was
>> >>>>> getting
>> >>>>> >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was
>> >>>>> able to
>> >>>>> >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We
>> >>>>> >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time,
>> >>>>> though we did
>> >>>>> >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a
>> >>>>> spot about
>> >>>>> >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point
>> >>>>> the tow
>> >>>>> >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we
>> >>>>> decided that
>> >>>>> >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine
>> >>>>> radio to OTS
>> >>>>> >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the
>> >>>>> >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the
>> >>>>> Whaler!
>> >>>>> >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but
>> >>>>> wow did
>> >>>>> >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff
>> >>>>> spent about
>> >>>>> >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about,
>> >>>>> >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the
>> >>>>> time Cliff
>> >>>>> >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood
>> >>>>> at 4.5
>> >>>>> >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water
>> >>>>> >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning
>> >>>>> I think
>> >>>>> >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
>> >>>>> >> accomplishment with the mission.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need
>> >>>>> better tow
>> >>>>> >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release).
>> >>>>> Our boat
>> >>>>> >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves
>> >>>>> isn't so
>> >>>>> >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line
>> >>>>> needs to
>> >>>>> >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow
>> >>>>> vessel
>> >>>>> >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking
>> >>>>> and then
>> >>>>> >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for
>> >>>>> boat and
>> >>>>> >> sub to track straight).
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the
>> >>>>> waves
>> >>>>> >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation
>> >>>>> like this
>> >>>>> >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At
>> >>>>> dinner,
>> >>>>> >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel
>> >>>>> that can
>> >>>>> >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time
>> >>>>> consuming tow
>> >>>>> >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support
>> >>>>> >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of
>> >>>>> >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan
>> >>>>> will lend
>> >>>>> >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>> <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>> <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>> <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Message: 2
>> >>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC)
>> >>>>> From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> >>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>> Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com
>> >>>>> <mailto:1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com>>
>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Cliff,
>> >>>>> Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos.
>> >>>>> With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to
>> >>>>> blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super
>> >>>>> cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F
>> >>>>> and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for
>> >>>>> quite some time.
>> >>>>> Greg C From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> >>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on
>> >>>>> viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to
>> >>>>> taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration
>> >>>>> of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more
>> >>>>> soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on
>> >>>>> board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not
>> >>>>> good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to
>> >>>>> the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on
>> >>>>> board and more towels for future long duration dives.?
>> >>>>> Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a
>> >>>>> bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately,
>> >>>>> mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under
>> >>>>> the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to
>> >>>>> mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of
>> >>>>> the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I
>> >>>>> installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water
>> >>>>> through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled
>> >>>>> motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but
>> >>>>> not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at
>> >>>>> the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped
>> >>>>> all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both
>> >>>>> temperature and humidity would be better.
>> >>>>> On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy
>> >>>>> with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected
>> >>>>> to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure
>> >>>>> reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just
>> >>>>> aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work
>> >>>>> or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one
>> >>>>> was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement,
>> >>>>> one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water
>> >>>>> in the thrusters.
>> >>>>> Best Regards
>> >>>>> Cliff
>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this
>> >>>>> is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down
>> >>>>> there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier
>> >>>>> elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have
>> >>>>> only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but
>> >>>>> are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A
>> >>>>> few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air
>> >>>>> channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what
>> >>>>> batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the
>> >>>>> way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all
>> >>>>> 4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air
>> >>>>> coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up
>> >>>>> too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>> On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs
>> >>>>> Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug
>> >>>>> 3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is
>> >>>>> a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube.
>> >>>>> com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive
>> >>>>> video of the Regatta.
>> >>>>> Regards
>> >>>>> Cliff
>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the
>> >>>>> 4-day
>> >>>>> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August
>> >>>>> 1-3).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day
>> >>>>> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was
>> >>>>> unfortunate
>> >>>>> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands
>> >>>>> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time
>> >>>>> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic
>> >>>>> diving.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell,
>> >>>>> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation
>> >>>>> diver
>> >>>>> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this
>> >>>>> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and
>> >>>>> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have
>> >>>>> chatted
>> >>>>> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the
>> >>>>> tow line and helped with comms.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men.
>> >>>>> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were
>> >>>>> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think
>> >>>>> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of
>> >>>>> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for
>> >>>>> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always
>> >>>>> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like
>> >>>>> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned
>> >>>>> more
>> >>>>> than I can remember last week.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever
>> >>>>> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal
>> >>>>> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting
>> >>>>> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to
>> >>>>> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We
>> >>>>> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though
>> >>>>> we did
>> >>>>> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot
>> >>>>> about
>> >>>>> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point
>> >>>>> the tow
>> >>>>> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that
>> >>>>> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio
>> >>>>> to OTS
>> >>>>> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the
>> >>>>> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler!
>> >>>>> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did
>> >>>>> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent
>> >>>>> about
>> >>>>> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about,
>> >>>>> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff
>> >>>>> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5
>> >>>>> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water
>> >>>>> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I
>> >>>>> think
>> >>>>> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
>> >>>>> accomplishment with the mission.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow
>> >>>>> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat
>> >>>>> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so
>> >>>>> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to
>> >>>>> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel
>> >>>>> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then
>> >>>>> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and
>> >>>>> sub to track straight).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves
>> >>>>> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like
>> >>>>> this
>> >>>>> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner,
>> >>>>> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can
>> >>>>> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow
>> >>>>> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support
>> >>>>> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of
>> >>>>> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend
>> >>>>> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or
>> >>>>> <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or> g
>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org
>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org
>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>> <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> | | Virus-free. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com> |
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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>> >>>>> <http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
>> >>>>> *****************************************************
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>> <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>> <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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>> >>>> <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>> <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>> <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
>> >> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
>> >> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
>> >> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
>> >> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
>> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
>> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
>> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
>> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34
>> *****************************************************
>
>
>
> --
> -River J. Dolfi
>
> 412-997-2526
> rdolfi7 at gmail.com
> rwd5301 at psu.edu
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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