[PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers

Wed Apr 20 21:50:37 EDT 2016

No, I use all three axis when in flying mode.

Cliff

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> Oh no, I think I did not understand. You are using ONLY the rotation of
> the joystick?
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I understood all that. But the joystick angle is not used for
>> anything?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Alec, I use the foot control for forward and reverse not the joystick
>>> rotary axis.  Rotary axis just rotates the boat.  As the foot control moves
>>> more and more forward, the voltage signal coming out increases linearly
>>> from 2.5 to 5v.  I use this with a PLC analog output signal to linearly
>>> increase the speed of aft horizontal controllers.  So after you get past
>>> the dead band on foot control, you get a very slow speed turning of the
>>> prop.  As you increase the forward foot control movement, the thruster move
>>> faster and faster.
>>>
>>> Cliff
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That was very timely for me Cliff, thanks. I'm curious, given your use
>>>> of a foot control for throttle, whether you are using the joystick angle.
>>>> That is, I understand if you move the stick forward the sub goes forward,
>>>> back is reverse, and neutral is stopped. But is anything different between
>>>> say the joystick half way forward or all the way forward?
>>>>
>>>> I can't really use a pedal because my controls are to be portable so
>>>> they can be handed off between occupants and used anywhere on the boat. I'm
>>>> considering two control paradigms and wonder whether anyone here can
>>>> envision a preference, or maybe some other idea. You all just became my
>>>> focus group! I should say I loved the "depth knob" concept on Snoopy,
>>>> whereby one knob controls vertical thrust, so I'm keeping that no matter
>>>> what I do with the joystick.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Rotating joystick
>>>> JS Forward/back --> sub goes forward/reverse
>>>> JS Side to side --> crabbing (side thrusters are angled, and run in
>>>> opposite directions to crab)
>>>> JS rotation --> increase one stern thrusters, decrease the other
>>>> Vertical thumb wheel --> dive-surface ("depth knob")
>>>>
>>>> 2) Non-rotating joystick
>>>> JS Forwar/backd --> sub goes forward/reverse
>>>> JS Side to side --> "virtual rudder" increasing speed to one stern
>>>> thruster, decreasing to the other
>>>> Vertical thumb wheel --> dive-surface
>>>> Horizontal thumb wheel --> crabbing
>>>>
>>>> In all cases, the thruster speed would be proportional to the command
>>>> input. One thing I'm unsure of is whether the rotating joysticks have any
>>>> return-to-neutral bias. Do they just stay rotated if you let them go? Is
>>>> there a click as you go through zero degrees? With the other two axes, your
>>>> hand knows where things are at, but I'm not sure how that works with
>>>> rotation since I have not actually handled one of these joysticks yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Alec
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Alan, I use a foot control from OEM controls. This is a
>>>>> hall effect potentiometer made for mobile heavy equipment.  It is very
>>>>> beefy.  http://www.oemcontrols.com/datasheets/hfp4.pdf is a link to
>>>>> the unit.  I am using model number HFP4M17445.  This a heavy duty
>>>>> commercial grade foot control.  The version I have sends a 0-5vdc signal
>>>>> with the 2.5V as the neutral position, 5V for full forward and 0v for full
>>>>> reverse.  I have really been happy with the unit.  Feels rock solid.  I
>>>>> take the signal into my PLC on an analog input channel.  I have some ladder
>>>>> logic that enable me to integrate both the foot control signal and the
>>>>> rotation axis of my 3 axis joy stick control to both aft horizontal
>>>>> thrusters.   If the joy still rotary axis is in neutral position, then both
>>>>> aft thrusters get the same signal such that the more forward you push on
>>>>> the foot control the more forward thrust, the faster you go.  When you push
>>>>> down with your heal the thrusters reverse proportional to the how far back
>>>>> you tilt the foot control.  This gives me great forward/reverse and
>>>>> control. When the joy stick is rotated in a clockwise manner, in PLC ladder
>>>>> logic I start increasing the speed of the port aft horizontal thruster and
>>>>> decreasing the speed of the starboard aft thruster.  This enables me at
>>>>> speed to turn to the starboard side. Rotating the joystick in the counter
>>>>> clockwise direction caused the boat to turn the port side.  If the foot
>>>>> control is in the neutral position, then rotating the joy stick rotates the
>>>>> boat about its center of gravity.  I have really been happy with how much
>>>>> control this gives at any speed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now on the negative side, the foot controller is expensive at $328. I
>>>>> am sure with a little looking you could find one that does the same thing
>>>>> at a reduced cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
>>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff,
>>>>>> can you tell me a bit about your foot controls.
>>>>>> Is it an off the shelf system? Is it forward, back,up & down
>>>>>> on all motors? How is it working out, was it reasonably
>>>>>> intuitive to operate?
>>>>>> Thanks Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 21, 2016 5:40 AM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By changing resistors you can use 0 to 5 Vdc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff Redus
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Cliff,
>>>>>> I was a bit wary as in my search for BLDC ESCs a lot of their options
>>>>>> said "reverse"
>>>>>> but were only a programable function that enabled you to change
>>>>>> from forward to reverse without having to disconnect the wires.
>>>>>> You couldn't actually flick a switch on your transmitter & reverse
>>>>>> the motor. BTW it says 0-2V on page 26.
>>>>>> Cheers Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20/04/2016, at 11:06 pm, via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reversing is fully integrated.  See page 27 of users manual at
>>>>>> http://downloads.ionmc.com/docs/roboclaw_user_manual.pdf  for analog
>>>>>> control.  0v signal gives full speed one direction, 5v gives full speed in
>>>>>> opposite direction and 2.5v is off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff Redus
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 10:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff / Alec,
>>>>>> I couldn't see anything about a reverse function on the USB RoboClaw
>>>>>> 2x60A HV Brushed DC motor controller.
>>>>>> It may be a bit of work making up the reversing circuit & integrating
>>>>>> it with the controller if
>>>>>> it doesn't have that function.
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 2:51 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At Robotshop.com <http://robotshop.com/>, the USB RoboClaw 2x60A HV
>>>>>> Brushed DC motor controller would work just as well.  Each board would
>>>>>> control two of the MK101s independently.  Has a lot of flexibility on input
>>>>>> signal.  If you are using PLC, send it a 0-5vdc analog signal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:24 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Cliff. Is the controller a component you pulled from inside
>>>>>> the MK trolling motor or is it a standalone product? I did a few searches
>>>>>> and have not turned up anything standalone. I do have such a unit (really
>>>>>> old) but it's for a way lower-powered motor than the 101s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alec
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:58 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan/Alec, I use Minn Kota 36v controllers for each of my 4
>>>>>> thrusters.  They have worked great.  They are potted and rugged.  They have
>>>>>> an internal relay with a dead band around 2.5v signal voltage.  This means
>>>>>> that absolutely no current flows even if you left the motor controller
>>>>>> powered up while in the garage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My previous motor controller for my big traction motor was from
>>>>>> Curtis.  This worked great but generated a high pitch noise that was
>>>>>> irritating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff Redus
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What did Cliff use?
>>>>>> He has been through this process recently with a 101.
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:12 AM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, the one I was considering was not for brushless motors. It's the
>>>>>> Roboteq XDC2460, rated for 80A continuous duty per channel. But now I'm
>>>>>> looking at Kelly I really like what I'm seeing there too, and Curtis seems
>>>>>> to be similar. This will probably come down to a decision between a more
>>>>>> advanced  dual channel from Roboteq or a super simple single-channel
>>>>>> controllers from the likes of Curtis/Kelly. In general if the simpler one
>>>>>> can do the job, it's the one I would prefer even if it cost the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks guys for all the input!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alec
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
>>>>>> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Alec,
>>>>>> that one says brushless?
>>>>>> On the Kelly faq page for selecting controllers it suggests.....
>>>>>> HOW TO CHOOSE A SUITABLE CONTROLLER FOR THE MOTOR?
>>>>>> Usually the performance will be optimized if the power of the
>>>>>> controller is 2.0-3.0 times of the motor's.
>>>>>>    I guess that means if you have a 2000W motor you get a controller
>>>>>> whose continual
>>>>>> amp rating X max voltage is at least 4000W.
>>>>>>    I have heard that it is better to aire on the safe side as some
>>>>>> manufacturers over rate
>>>>>> their controllers. Kelly have a reputation of being good & cheap, &
>>>>>> their ratings accurate,
>>>>>> however Hugh has had problems with them & I wired up mine yesterday &
>>>>>> the ON light
>>>>>> isn't working when powered up. I put power on it once without the
>>>>>> pre-ignition resister
>>>>>> so this may have stuffed it, but surely it wouldn't be so fickle!
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion <
>>>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:45 AM
>>>>>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Speed controllers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to finalize my selection of speed controllers for Shackleton
>>>>>> over the next week or so, and at first blush am looking at this one from
>>>>>> Roboteq:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/docman/motor-controllers-documents-and-files/documentation/datasheets/hbl23xx/59-hbl23xx-datasheet/file
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There will be two of them, each driving a pair of MK101 thrusters.
>>>>>> Roboteq offers a controller family that is a step down from this and still
>>>>>> handles the required amperage, and which is tempting because it's much less
>>>>>> expensive. However, the specs are too close for comfort (50A continuous
>>>>>> duty rating vs. MK101 requirement of 46A).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone have any suggestions for other cost-effective controllers to
>>>>>> consider?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alec
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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