From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 00:16:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:16:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] communications Message-ID: <20150430211659.C48DA7FE@m0005299.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 00:20:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:20:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150430212024.C48DA7D3@m0005299.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 00:42:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 04:42:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] communications In-Reply-To: <20150430211659.C48DA7FE@m0005299.ppops.net> References: <20150430211659.C48DA7FE@m0005299.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1361805960.203606.1430455337182.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Make sure you have a kid topside then:)I am pretty slow at texting, by the time I tapped out a morse code it would be quickerto surface & talk to the boat support people.?Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] communications Alan,? I don't know if you text very much, but what I find interesting these days is how (kids especially) do all kinds of abbreviations as they are texting, Morse is exactly the same !??? There are many words that code senders abbreviate so as to cut down on keystrokes.? message =?MSG???? and?? Because = CUZ?? or?? Thanks = TKS?? etc...?Brian???? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] communications Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 02:59:56 +0000 (UTC) That looks a simpler system.You can be heard by a diver through the dome if you yell loud enough.I snorkelled down to Cliff's R300 in Florida, & heard him say "This is Fantastic".Of course I couldn't communicate back.Alan From: Jens Laland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] communications ** You mean take a small hammer & a big hammer down with you. no, but... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_code Jens _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 00:53:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 04:53:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: <20150430212024.C48DA7D3@m0005299.ppops.net> References: <20150430212024.C48DA7D3@m0005299.ppops.net> Message-ID: <956150248.204886.1430456037001.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,there is a lot of information on the web about what to coatsteel hulled boats, yachts & ships with, however you might wantto go to your local marine chandlery & see what coating systemsthey have & what they suggest. That's what I ended up doing.Cheers Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Thanks for the info,? I'll probably talk to the paint/epoxy people and make sure all products are compatible.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:09:07 -0400 Don't know the answer to this one.? The sandblaster I talked to swore a zinc thermal spraying protects steel better than anything else because it acts as a sacrificial anode.? But from what I can find out from other sources the zinc coating still needs to be covered by paint because sometimes it does not adhere permanently and it can chip.? So I have the option to have the hull zinc galvanized by thermal spraying but I don't know if it's worth the money. The sandblaster/painter I talked to said the coating goes on one side only, presumably the outside because it would be way too difficult to get the thermal sprayer into a small sub to effectively coat the inside. Jon On 4/30/2015 9:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, ? Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself.? Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such.? But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ???? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ??? Are there different types of zinc coatings??? ? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 01:20:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:20:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Duplex Stainless Message-ID: I have an inquiry in on hyper duplex stainless plate costs. It comes up to 35mm thick x 39' long x 8' wide sheets. Keith via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >How does uper duplex stainless handle pitting? 316 when immersed in sea water developes micro pits that weaken the material over time. > >Keith > >Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> >>The new Lula was fabricated from some kind of trick stainless. >>Vance >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 29, 2015, at 5:28 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Ok. When I was in Roatan talking to Karl he talked about it several times. I had never heard of it, but sounded cool. >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Duplex Stainless >>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> Date: Wed, April 29, 2015 2:19 pm >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> >>> Super Duplex stainless steel is used widely in the off shore oil and gas industry for corrosion in production tubulars particularly for high H2S levels. It has high chromium and molybdenum content. Excellent resistance to inorganic acids especially those containing chlorides. I don't know of any submersible pressure hulls made of Super Duplex stainless steel. It would be expensive. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> From: via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: psubs >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:14 PM >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Duplex Stainless >>> >>> Does anyone know anything about duplex stainless steel? Has anyone ever made a deep diving submarine out of it? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 06:50:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 03:50:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: <20150430182502.C490B61E@m0048138.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1430477454.20320.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, It seems to me that the amount of effort needed to protect your hull with paint is a function of how you use it. If it sits in a boat slip year round you would need a very serious paint system. If your going to just dip it in the water once in a while then how important is it. I am in fresh water only, so I painted Gamma with hardware store rust paint. Also, there is no such thing as going for a dive and returning scratch free. Gamma needs a touch up after every dive (almost). I would spend the money on a compressor and sand blaster and do it myself, don't paint anything until your welding is finished. You can also minimize the rust potential with a good design. Make sure you have no areas that are impossible to paint. I would say if your doing any type of paint system, you should worry about compatibility. Do like Alan says and go to your favorite boat guys and ask what system they like best. Paint system opinions are like Ford versus Chev and air compensating verses oil filling :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 4/30/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating To: "PSubs" Received: Thursday, April 30, 2015, 9:25 PM All,?Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself.? Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such.? But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ???? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ??? Are there different types of zinc coatings??? ?Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 09:14:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 09:14:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: <20150430182502.C490B61E@m0048138.ppops.net> References: <20150430182502.C490B61E@m0048138.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, There's lots of dirty, noisy, or smelly jobs building a sub, but sandblasting our little hulls - in particular the inside - has to be right at the top of the list. Years ago I bought myself a sand blaster with the intention of doing this job myself. Very bad idea. It was a complete pain, especially recovering the sand to pass it back through, which required one to pass it through a sieve to remove any kind of foreign particles that would clog the nozzle. I had clogs pretty much all the time, sand everywhere, and ended up taking the sub off to have someone with proper facilities deal with it. I generally tight-fisted, but sand blasting is THE job I don't mind outsourcing. Best, Alec On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, > > Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and > have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that > money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself. > Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru > hulls and such. But my question is do I need to worry about the > compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the > zinc ?? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ? Are there different > types of zinc coatings? > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 09:27:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:27:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Message-ID: <20150501062741.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.43625c2532.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 09:28:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 13:28:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1159085485.300677.1430486927999.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> At our 2011 PSub convention, one of the speakers was Rick Gallenberger from Sherwin Williams.? At the convention, we ask Rick, who is a marine coatings expert, if he could put together a recommendation on a coating system?for a typical steel hulled psub and he did.? Attached is his recommendation.? It is pretty much what Scott has done on Trustworthy.? Jon, I am not sure this ever got posted to the PSub site but? I think we should added under resources some where as this is an ongoing issue with anyone building as psub. Cliff From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Hi Brian, There's lots of dirty, noisy, or smelly jobs building a sub, but sandblasting our little hulls - in particular the inside - has to be right at the top of the list. Years ago I bought myself a sand blaster with the intention of doing this job myself. Very bad idea. It was a complete pain, especially recovering the sand to pass it back through, which required one to pass it through a sieve to remove any kind of foreign particles that would clog the nozzle. I had clogs pretty much all the time, sand everywhere, and ended up taking the sub off to have someone with proper facilities deal with it. I generally tight-fisted, but sand blasting is THE job I don't mind outsourcing. Best, Alec On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All,?Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself.? Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such.? But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ???? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ??? Are there different types of zinc coatings??? ?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PSub Paint Specification.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 172032 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 09:34:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:34:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Duplex Stainless Message-ID: <20150501063449.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.55524a4481.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 09:47:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:47:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501064733.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.fd2a7928b0.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 09:52:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 09:52:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: <20150501064733.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.fd2a7928b0.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501064733.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.fd2a7928b0.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Darn, I wish you weren't half way across the country Scott or I'd have a little job for you! But you're no doubt right. Best, Alec On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:47 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I did all my own sand blasting. You can see how I did it in my project > pictures. After messing around with different sand blasters and different > media I learned how to do it quick and easy with minimal dirty work. The > long and the short of it is do not use a cheapy DIY sand blaster (the kind > that looks like a little suit case). If you do, you will spend weeks trying > to sand blast your sub. Get a Cleamco 3/4" high volume siphon type and rent > a towable 180 CFM compressor. I did my whole submarine inside and out in 3 > hours (including all the small parts). Use 80 grit coal slag (DO NOT USE > SAND!!!). Get a air feed hood which works better than a respirator with the > cheapy hood. This process is all about having the right tools. Also be sure > you tape off / protect with cardboard, the critical parts that you don't > want to blast. Blasting takes a smooth surface and makes it rough which is > perfect for paint to anchor on too, but bad for seals and such. > > When you are done, vacuum out the sub and wipe it down with solvent then > move it to a paint booth. Wipe it down again, paint, and be happy :) > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Fri, May 01, 2015 6:14 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Hi Brian, > > There's lots of dirty, noisy, or smelly jobs building a sub, but > sandblasting our little hulls - in particular the inside - has to be right > at the top of the list. Years ago I bought myself a sand blaster with the > intention of doing this job myself. Very bad idea. It was a complete pain, > especially recovering the sand to pass it back through, which required one > to pass it through a sieve to remove any kind of foreign particles that > would clog the nozzle. I had clogs pretty much all the time, sand > everywhere, and ended up taking the sub off to have someone with proper > facilities deal with it. I generally tight-fisted, but sand blasting is THE > job I don't mind outsourcing. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> All, >> >> Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and >> have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that >> money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself. >> Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru >> hulls and such. But my question is do I need to worry about the >> compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the >> zinc ?? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ? Are there different >> types of zinc coatings? >> >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 09:52:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:52:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Message-ID: <20150501065234.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.99b64b95be.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 09:53:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:53:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501065347.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a08dc4dd7c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 10:21:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 10:21:54 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <20150501062741.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.43625c2532.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501062741.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.43625c2532.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <55438C02.6080208@psubs.org> Hi Scott, Check your numbers again just to be sure. A 72 inch sphere has a volume of 113+ inches and will displace 7238 lbs of seawater. Using 1.25 inch material should weigh in around 5760 lbs giving you 1478 lbs of payload. That still may not be enough payload depending upon equipment and superstructure material but is significantly more than 511 lbs. I'm showing HY-80 gets you 3000 feet using 3/4 inch thickness and 3782 lbs of payload, and HY-100 gets 3000 feet using 5/8 inch thickness and 4358 lbs of payload. Assuming you have to use 1" material you would still have 2620 lbs of payload. Of course this assumes that the thinnest part of the hemisphere after forming is at least as thick as the required thickness for depth rating. All these calcs are based on n=.8 Jon On 5/1/2015 9:27 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > The study I have shows a depth of 1000 meters with a shell thickness > of 1.19291 inches with a weight of 3676.05 lbs. When calculating the > displacement the total payload is 511.986 lbs. Ofcourse that > calculates for nothing but the sphere. Once you add > batteries, emergency drop weight, plumbing, recalculate for the shell > actually being 1.25" thick because of stock material, etc it becomes > grossly overweight. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > > Date: Thu, April 30, 2015 6:45 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > I've calculated 1" thick 516-70 gets you 2000-3300 feet depending > upon > safety factor, with a weight of 4000 pounds. > > 2" thick 516-70 gets you 5000-6700 depending upon safety factor, > with a > weight of 9200 pounds. > > Deepworker 2000 uses spherical segments welded together which > lightens > the shell because each segment is the same thickness. In traditional > forming of a hemisphere the metal will thin out at the apex and > you must > use that as your limiting factor in regards to max depth. So > spherical > segments get you to the same depth with lighter weight. > > You might consider taking the C-Explorer approach and lighten the > overall weight by using a steel hemisphere for the bottom half and an > acrylic hemisphere for the top half. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 10:30:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 07:30:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Message-ID: <20150501073058.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a6e9e7c219.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 10:40:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 07:40:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Message-ID: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 10:53:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 15:53:02 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Optimistic "Sub" sale Message-ID: I don't think id get ?30K for mine, and mine goes underwater! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176938/Homemade-U-Boat-sails-English-canal-goes-sale-30-000.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 11:05:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 08:05:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501080545.DDED2139@m0005310.ppops.net> Hank, Just bought a big compressor yesterday ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 03:50:54 -0700 Brian, It seems to me that the amount of effort needed to protect your hull with paint is a function of how you use it. If it sits in a boat slip year round you would need a very serious paint system. If your going to just dip it in the water once in a while then how important is it. I am in fresh water only, so I painted Gamma with hardware store rust paint. Also, there is no such thing as going for a dive and returning scratch free. Gamma needs a touch up after every dive (almost). I would spend the money on a compressor and sand blaster and do it myself, don't paint anything until your welding is finished. You can also minimize the rust potential with a good design. Make sure you have no areas that are impossible to paint. I would say if your doing any type of paint system, you should worry about compatibility. Do like Alan says and go to your favorite boat guys and ask what system they like best. Paint system opinions are like Ford versus Chev and air compensating verses oil filling :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 4/30/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating To: "PSubs" Received: Thursday, April 30, 2015, 9:25 PM All,?Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself.? Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such.? But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ???? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ??? Are there different types of zinc coatings??? ?Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 11:20:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 16:20:24 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: References: <20150430182502.C490B61E@m0048138.ppops.net> Message-ID: Im with Alec on this, its a hideous job. Pay someone to do it. I got my boat blasted inside and out for ?300. I wouldn't be able to buy all the proper stuff for anywhere near that. I tried to get the bloke to do the blasting at home so I didn't have to move the sub, but he flatly refused to do it on account of the mess. Even though id said I would curtain everything up. So I had to crane the boat out and take it to his workshop. BUT, sounds like Scott had success with the correct tools. I must admit it would be nice to have ability to do it myself. If I had a large shed spare I would probably consider it. I like to be independent. On 1 May 2015 at 14:14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Brian, > > There's lots of dirty, noisy, or smelly jobs building a sub, but > sandblasting our little hulls - in particular the inside - has to be right > at the top of the list. Years ago I bought myself a sand blaster with the > intention of doing this job myself. Very bad idea. It was a complete pain, > especially recovering the sand to pass it back through, which required one > to pass it through a sieve to remove any kind of foreign particles that > would clog the nozzle. I had clogs pretty much all the time, sand > everywhere, and ended up taking the sub off to have someone with proper > facilities deal with it. I generally tight-fisted, but sand blasting is THE > job I don't mind outsourcing. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> All, >> >> Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and >> have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that >> money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself. >> Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru >> hulls and such. But my question is do I need to worry about the >> compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the >> zinc ?? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ? Are there different >> types of zinc coatings? >> >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 11:30:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:43 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <55439C23.2020406@telus.net> Scott - contact me off-list at cast55 at telus.net Sean From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 11:44:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 09:44:20 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <55439F54.60002@telus.net> FYI: This is for a 72" sphere with 1.25" thick material. Where this may differ from Jon's calculation is that the Usage Factor, eta, used in this program is 0.67 as specified by ABS. Jon apparently used 0.8, which increases conservatism. Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jedgacha.png Type: image/png Size: 62398 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 11:49:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 11:49:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <5543A09B.6050304@psubs.org> Scott, I use the excel spreadsheet calculator that Cliff Redus created a few years ago. You can download it from the web site. PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets -> Stiffened Cylinder Calculator Make sure you "Enable" macros. There are multiple tabs at the bottom of the sheet, one of them is for spheres and elliptical heads. It takes a little time to learn how to use it, but once you've "got it" in your head the spreadsheet is really easy to use. I've gone through it line by line and Cliff did a fantastic job converting the ABS specs into a useable tool. Jon On 5/1/2015 10:40 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, > Where / how do you do the calcs? Is it difficult? I have never had > anyone show me, so I have had to rely on others to do the clacs for > me. As I get closer to solidifying my next submarine, being able to do > more of the design work myself would be really helpful > Thanks, > Scott Waters > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 11:51:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 09:51:17 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <55439F54.60002@telus.net> References: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <55439F54.60002@telus.net> Message-ID: <5543A0F5.9070304@telus.net> Correction - a higher usage factor actually decreases conservatism. Usage factor is the inverse of safety factor, so the ABS prescribed 0.67 factor is equivalent to a 1.5x factor of safety. Sean From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 11:56:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 11:56:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <55439F54.60002@telus.net> References: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <55439F54.60002@telus.net> Message-ID: <5543A210.7030104@psubs.org> Yes, I used .8 as the usage factor for a516-70. Until you know what the minimum thickness of a formed head is the numbers have to be considered approximate anyway. For example, .75 inch HY-100 will clearly get Scott where he wants to go, but I don't know if that would require 1 inch plate or 1.25 inch plate to ensure a minimum thickness of .75 inch after forming. I like your program Sean. Looks like there's a bug in it though...everything displayed in metric. :) Where do I make a "feature" request for english unit output? Jon On 5/1/2015 11:44 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > FYI: This is for a 72" sphere with 1.25" thick material. Where this > may differ from Jon's calculation is that the Usage Factor, eta, used > in this program is 0.67 as specified by ABS. Jon apparently used 0.8, > which increases conservatism. > > Sean > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 62398 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 12:07:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 09:07:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501090756.C491E001@m0048137.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 13:05:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 12:05:31 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: Just be sure to put down a hard floor and curtians to contain the media. Otherwise you'll spend a fortune in coalslag. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/01/2015 11:07 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating I have a big yard where I'm doing the work so mess is not an issue. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 16:20:24 +0100 Im with Alec on this, its a hideous job. Pay someone to do it. I got my boat blasted inside and out for ?300. I wouldn't be able to buy all the proper stuff for anywhere near that. I tried to get the bloke to do the blasting at home so I didn't have to move the sub, but he flatly refused to do it on account of the mess. Even though id said I would curtain everything up. So I had to crane the boat out and take it to his workshop. BUT, sounds like Scott had success with the correct tools. I must admit it would be nice to have ability to do it myself. If I had a large shed spare I would probably consider it. I like to be independent. On 1 May 2015 at 14:14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Brian, There's lots of dirty, noisy, or smelly jobs building a sub, but sandblasting our little hulls - in particular the inside - has to be right at the top of the list. Years ago I bought myself a sand blaster with the intention of doing this job myself. Very bad idea. It was a complete pain, especially recovering the sand to pass it back through, which required one to pass it through a sieve to remove any kind of foreign particles that would clog the nozzle. I had clogs pretty much all the time, sand everywhere, and ended up taking the sub off to have someone with proper facilities deal with it. I generally tight-fisted, but sand blasting is THE job I don't mind outsourcing. Best, Alec On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself. Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such. But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ?? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ? Are there different types of zinc coatings? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 13:41:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 10:41:49 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501104149.C48F6FBD@m0005297.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 13:47:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 10:47:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Message-ID: <20150501104738.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0c66c8d829.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 13:53:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 10:53:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501105307.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.7acbd50eb6.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 14:22:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 12:22:50 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <5543A210.7030104@psubs.org> References: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <55439F54.60002@telus.net> <5543A210.7030104@psubs.org> Message-ID: <5e567f28-8fc2-4ff5-9c81-7a74a712dfec@email.android.com> The program isn't ready for public release, although the spherical shell module works fine. Before I release it, I'll add in the archaic units for the benefit of those in Myanmar, Liberia and the United States. Sean On May 1, 2015 9:56:00 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Yes, I used .8 as the usage factor for a516-70. Until you know what >the >minimum thickness of a formed head is the numbers have to be considered > >approximate anyway. For example, .75 inch HY-100 will clearly get >Scott >where he wants to go, but I don't know if that would require 1 inch >plate or 1.25 inch plate to ensure a minimum thickness of .75 inch >after >forming. > >I like your program Sean. Looks like there's a bug in it >though...everything displayed in metric. :) Where do I make a >"feature" request for english unit output? > >Jon > > >On 5/1/2015 11:44 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >wrote: >> FYI: This is for a 72" sphere with 1.25" thick material. Where this > >> may differ from Jon's calculation is that the Usage Factor, eta, used > >> in this program is 0.67 as specified by ABS. Jon apparently used >0.8, >> which increases conservatism. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 14:31:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 14:31:57 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <20150501104738.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0c66c8d829.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501104738.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0c66c8d829.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <5543C69D.20303@psubs.org> I'm showing 1 inch thick for Aluminum 7079-T6 to reach 3000 feet at a usage factor of .8 I believe that equates to around 1,850 pounds with about 1,800 pounds of payload. If you use ABS recommended .67 usage factor you have to bump up to 1-1/8 inch thickness. Jon On 5/1/2015 1:47 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I know there was the aluminaut that was made of aluminum. What is the > possibility of using aluminum instead of HY-100? I essentially know > nothing about it. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 14:43:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 11:43:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Message-ID: <20150501114345.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.af33871e2c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 15:03:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 12:03:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Message-ID: <20150501120314.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5a1382fc21.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 15:58:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 15:58:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 PSUB Convention Lodging Update Message-ID: All, I have secured our lodging and our conference room. Here is some initial info. with more to follow. Please wait for instructions before booking as they are sending me info. that will make our booking easier. This is the same hotel used by the sub race staff and contestants. Hotel: *Best Western Plus Hotel & Suites, 1251 West Montgomery Avenue, Rockville, MD 20850* The sleeping room rate will be $101.00 + 15% tax. It includes a full American buffet breakfast, free parking, free Wi-Fi throughout the hotel, complimentary shuttle to the Rockville Metro on the hour every hour, every day, and to other neighborhood attractions as well. http://www.bestwesternrockville.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzIqFu1JxlM&authuser=0 Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 16:02:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 20:02:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS Hull calulation Spreadsheet - How to use. In-Reply-To: <20150501120314.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5a1382fc21.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501120314.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5a1382fc21.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1589851953.506027.1430510554914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott.? First read thesection in the ABS rules in chapter 6 on MetallicPressure Boundary Components.? If you don?t,you will be lost.? The spreadsheetis broken into four tabs (Instructions, Cylindrical shells, Spherical and Ellipticalhead and Figures.)? Decide what you wantanalyze, i.e., shell plus stiffeners or the heads.Make a firstpass estimate of the shell thickness and the stiffener design dimensions andspacing.? For an FEA fora given loading you normally look for where in the structure you reach themaximum stress levels.? You stay way awayfrom the material yield point and beef up the weak area in an iterativeprocess.? The ABS hullanalysis goes about this differently.?What is does is calculate a bunch of different Pa (Maximum allowableWorking Pressure) each associated with a different fail mode.? For example if your light stiffeners are two wimpy,then the failure mode would be predicted to be overall buckling in whichmultiple light stiffeners cave in.? Inthis case, the ABS sheet would give a low number for the Pa associated withthis event.? Let say your lightstiffeners are strong enough so that you don?t have overall buckling.? Then ABS rules are going to start pointing toother failure modes as indicated by a low Pa.?For example, you may reach the yield point on the material at mid baybetween the light stiffeners.?? If thiswas the case, and it was the lowest PA, then you would look and bumping up theshell thickness.? There is anotherfailure mode known as localized buckling.?In this case, the shell buckles in between the light stiffeners in theform of dents.? The ABS calls theselobes.? For localized failure, there canbe 1, 2, 3 , 4 ?of these lobes or dents.?So the ABS sheets ask you to try 1, then 2 then 3 ? as the number ofdents and for each, number, it recalculates the Pa.? The calculation you are interested in is thenumber of dents or lobes that associated with the lowest Pa.? IF this failure mode occurred, this would bethe number of lobes.So after youput your input data in and sweep through different numbers of lobes or dents, youleave n set to this valve that gives the minimum Pa for localized buckling.The sheet doesone other test, in which it looks at light stiffener tripping.? It looks at the design for the light stiffenerand calculates does it trip or not.? Ifit fails this test, you would beef up the light stiffener.?Now you are readyto step back and look at what overall failure mode is predicted.? You do this by looking at each of Pa.? The Pa that has the lowest value is thepredicted failure mode.? This could be 1)Overall Buckling, 2) localized buckling or 3) Reaching the yield stress mid bay4) reaching the yield near the light stiffer in the shell. or 5) stiffenertripping.As a generalrule, prediction of reaching yield is more are accurate than the bucklingcalcs.Most designerswould purposefully design their boat with most of the PA fairly close but withmid bay yielding as the predicted failure mode.To build in afactor of safety to the calculation, the ABS uses safety factors for eachcalc.? This is the Greek letter eta. Thedefault values in the sheet are given by ABS.?No factor of safety would be an eta = 1.Finally at theend of the day you have a magic Pa.? The spreadsheetthen calculates the hydrostatic pressure associated with Pa to determine themaximum safe operating depth.? To seewhat a crush depth would be, you can rerun the spreadsheet and relay all thesafety factors (eta=1) to one.? Hope thishelps.Cliff From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Cool. Would someone be able to spend a few minutes explaining how to use the sheet? Also how do you use different materials? I see 516gr 70 is plugged into it. ?Thanks, Scott Waters?? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Date: Fri, May 01, 2015 8:49 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Scott, I use the excel spreadsheet calculator that Cliff Redus created a few years ago.? You can download it from the web site. PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Data Sheets -> Stiffened Cylinder Calculator Make sure you "Enable" macros.? There are multiple tabs at the bottom of the sheet, one of them is for spheres and elliptical heads.? It takes a little time to learn how to use it, but once you've "got it" in your head the spreadsheet is really easy to use.? I've gone through it line by line and Cliff did a fantastic job converting the ABS specs into a useable tool. Jon On 5/1/2015 10:40 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,?Where / how do you do the calcs? Is it difficult? I have never had anyone show me, so I have had to rely on others to do the clacs for me.?As I get closer to solidifying my next submarine, being able to do more of the design work myself would be really helpful?Thanks,Scott Waters? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 16:23:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 16:23:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: <20150501065347.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a08dc4dd7c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501065347.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.a08dc4dd7c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi All: The Sherwin-Wiliams account is "P-Subs" if the store can't find it call Rick Gallenberger at (715) 214-6071. John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On May 1, 2015, at 9:53 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Somewhere I have the psubs account number with Sherman Williams. It gives a 15% discount. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Fri, May 01, 2015 6:28 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > At our 2011 PSub convention, one of the speakers was Rick Gallenberger from Sherwin Williams. At the convention, we ask Rick, who is a marine coatings expert, if he could put together a recommendation on a coating system for a typical steel hulled psub and he did. Attached is his recommendation. It is pretty much what Scott has done on Trustworthy. > > Jon, I am not sure this ever got posted to the PSub site but I think we should added under resources some where as this is an ongoing issue with anyone building as psub. > > Cliff > > > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 8:14 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating > > Hi Brian, > > There's lots of dirty, noisy, or smelly jobs building a sub, but sandblasting our little hulls - in particular the inside - has to be right at the top of the list. Years ago I bought myself a sand blaster with the intention of doing this job myself. Very bad idea. It was a complete pain, especially recovering the sand to pass it back through, which required one to pass it through a sieve to remove any kind of foreign particles that would clog the nozzle. I had clogs pretty much all the time, sand everywhere, and ended up taking the sub off to have someone with proper facilities deal with it. I generally tight-fisted, but sand blasting is THE job I don't mind outsourcing. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > All, > > Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself. Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such. But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ?? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ? Are there different types of zinc coatings? > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 16:36:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 16:36:18 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS Hull calulation Spreadsheet - How to use. In-Reply-To: <1589851953.506027.1430510554914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20150501120314.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5a1382fc21.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <1589851953.506027.1430510554914.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5543E3C2.2060707@psubs.org> Concatenated version for spherical heads 1) Open the excel spreadsheet 2) At top, click "Enable Editing" if you see that option 3) At top, look for a message about macros being disabled and click "Enable Content" so you can enter your own data 4) Click the "Spherical and Elliptical Heads" tab at the bottom. 5) Lines 5 through 9 is where you enter material properties. It is preset for A516gr70. 6) Lines 10 through 22 are for hemisphere heads. ---- Line 11, enter diameter of head in column C ---- Line 15, enter thickness of head in column C ---- Line 22, read maximum allowable pressure Note: when you enter a number in a cell you MUST click in another cell anywhere in the spreadsheet for the calculation to take effect. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 17:35:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 21:35:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <20150501114345.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.af33871e2c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501114345.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.af33871e2c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1330196273.368223.1430516132073.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,it's probably 4 x the price of steel.Phil makes his exosuit out of cast A356 alluminium.There are holes created during the casting process that in his instanceare filled with expoxy which is forced in under pressure. Then it is hardanodized. As he said you would think the process would be the other way round.I doubt you would find anyone with an anodizing bath big enough for what you want.Casting wouldn't be an option due to expense & again finding a bath the size youneed for post casting?heat treatment would be a problem.Although lighter for the same strength you would need to go twice as thick (guess).You may find someone in the world that can spin a large thick aluminum hemisphere.If you do, it then may be a matter of comparing the price of aluminium versus metal &syntactic foam. With the syntactic foam option you could end up with better stability.Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2015 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Cool. So what are the drawbacks of aluminum? Why don't most deep divers use it??Thanks, Scott Waters?? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Date: Fri, May 01, 2015 11:31 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion I'm showing 1 inch thick for Aluminum 7079-T6 to reach 3000 feet at a usage factor of .8 I believe that equates to around 1,850 pounds with about 1,800 pounds of payload.? If you use ABS recommended .67 usage factor you have to bump up to 1-1/8 inch thickness. Jon On 5/1/2015 1:47 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I know there was the aluminaut that was made of aluminum. What is the possibility of using aluminum instead of HY-100? I essentially know nothing?about it. ?Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 18:00:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 15:00:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS Hull calulation Spreadsheet - How to use. Message-ID: <20150501150026.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.176974a8d5.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 19:06:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 23:06:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS Hull calulation Spreadsheet - How to use. In-Reply-To: <20150501150026.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.176974a8d5.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150501150026.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.176974a8d5.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1595366945.604581.1430521608760.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott Each column in the ABS spreadsheet is a different case.? The pressure hull on the R300 is shaped like a coke bottle.? As such, there is a 30" diameter cylindrical ?section and a 10" diameter section.? Both needed to be designed.?Material properties of HY-100 : | Yield strength | 689 MPa | 100000 psi | | Shear modulus (typical of steel) | 80 GPa | 11600 ksi | | Elastic modulus (typical of steel) | 205 GPa | 29700 ksi | | Poisson's ratio | 0.28 | 0.28 | Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS Hull calulation Spreadsheet - How to use. A few questions.?What is the difference and reasoning for the 30" elliptical section and the 10" elliptical section??How do you get the material properties of HY-100 and other materials? Is there a source sheet??Thanks,Scott Waters??? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS Hull calulation Spreadsheet - How to use. From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Date: Fri, May 01, 2015 1:36 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Concatenated version for spherical heads 1) Open the excel spreadsheet 2) At top, click "Enable Editing" if you see that option 3) At top, look for a message about macros being disabled and click "Enable Content" so you can enter your own data 4) Click the "Spherical and Elliptical Heads" tab at the bottom. 5) Lines 5 through 9 is where you enter material properties. It is preset for A516gr70. 6) Lines 10 through 22 are for hemisphere heads. ---- Line 11, enter diameter of head in column C ---- Line 15, enter thickness of head in column C ---- Line 22, read maximum allowable pressure Note: when you enter a number in a cell you MUST click in another cell anywhere in the spreadsheet for the calculation to take effect. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 19:55:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 16:55:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501165527.C4976F38@m0048140.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 20:38:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 17:38:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: <20150501165527.C4976F38@m0048140.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1430527109.6988.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, What size compressor did you buy? Sand blasting is a dirty job, but I love it, I find it relaxing. Get yourself a good hood that has an air feed. I did not know that silica sand is dangerous, that is all I use but I wear heavy coveralls and gloves. My system is 80 cfm at 80 psi and that seems plenty. I never reuse my sand because it looses bite and like Alec says, it will plug your tip, but not until you have crawled inside a tight space and got comfortable :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/1/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 1, 2015, 7:55 PM I guess I should blast my viewports as well.?? Gee I made them so smooth !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:38:21 -0500 Not sure about yhe zinc coating. I used Macropoxy as the first coat and High solid poly as my second coat. I don't know if that helps, but it is what I did.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Date:04/30/2015 8:25 PM (GMT-06:00) To: PSubs Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating All,?Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself.? Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such.? But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ???? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ??? Are there different types of zinc coatings??? ?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 23:16:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 20:16:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501201609.C496F78C@m0048141.ppops.net> Hank , The compressor has a max pressure of 150 psi and a tank of 30 gal, but it can only maintain a cfm of probably 80. I got a fairly large blasting reservoir unit that is probably around 20 gals or so. It's ok if I can't blast the whole side of the sub at once, I'll just go at the pace the unit can handle. I've got this really hard slag in places where they formed the hemispheres, from the heat. It's as hard as diamond ! If I hit is with a slag hammer it pops of, but in very small sections. I tried grinding it and all it did was polish ! It'll come off but slowly. I'm going to experiment with the blaster tomorrow. I might try and rig a scuba facemask for back in the battery compartment later. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 17:38:29 -0700 Brian, What size compressor did you buy? Sand blasting is a dirty job, but I love it, I find it relaxing. Get yourself a good hood that has an air feed. I did not know that silica sand is dangerous, that is all I use but I wear heavy coveralls and gloves. My system is 80 cfm at 80 psi and that seems plenty. I never reuse my sand because it looses bite and like Alec says, it will plug your tip, but not until you have crawled inside a tight space and got comfortable :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/1/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 1, 2015, 7:55 PM I guess I should blast my viewports as well.?? Gee I made them so smooth !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:38:21 -0500 Not sure about yhe zinc coating. I used Macropoxy as the first coat and High solid poly as my second coat. I don't know if that helps, but it is what I did.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Date:04/30/2015 8:25 PM (GMT-06:00) To: PSubs Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating All,?Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself.? Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such.? But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ???? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ??? Are there different types of zinc coatings??? ?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 23:31:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 22:31:55 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: The main unit I use will go through a 5 gallon bucket of coal slag in about 2-3 minutes. It blasts as fast as you can move. The orface is about 1/2" and never clogs, so it is easy to reuse media. -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/01/2015 7:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Brian, What size compressor did you buy? Sand blasting is a dirty job, but I love it, I find it relaxing. Get yourself a good hood that has an air feed. I did not know that silica sand is dangerous, that is all I use but I wear heavy coveralls and gloves. My system is 80 cfm at 80 psi and that seems plenty. I never reuse my sand because it looses bite and like Alec says, it will plug your tip, but not until you have crawled inside a tight space and got comfortable :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/1/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 1, 2015, 7:55 PM I guess I should blast my viewports as well. Gee I made them so smooth ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:38:21 -0500 Not sure about yhe zinc coating. I used Macropoxy as the first coat and High solid poly as my second coat. I don't know if that helps, but it is what I did.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Date:04/30/2015 8:25 PM (GMT-06:00) To: PSubs Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating All, Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself. Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such. But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ?? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ? Are there different types of zinc coatings? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 1 23:31:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 03:31:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: <20150501201609.C496F78C@m0048141.ppops.net> References: <20150501201609.C496F78C@m0048141.ppops.net> Message-ID: <725220015.103169.1430537472471.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,if you blast the outside tomorrow won't you have to coat it immediately with a primerto prevent rust? I might be reading this wrong, but you hadn't sorted your paint sysytem yet.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2015 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Hank ,? The compressor has a max pressure of 150 psi and a tank of 30 gal,? but it can only maintain a cfm of probably 80.? I got a fairly large blasting reservoir unit that is probably around 20 gals or so.? It's ok if I can't blast the whole side of the sub at once, I'll just go at the pace the unit can handle.? I've got this really hard slag in places where they formed the hemispheres, from the heat.? It's as hard as diamond !? If I hit is with a slag hammer it pops of, but in very small sections.? I tried grinding it and all it did was polish !? It'll come off but slowly.? I'm going to experiment with the blaster tomorrow.? I might try and rig a scuba facemask for back in the battery compartment later. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 17:38:29 -0700 Brian, What size compressor did you buy?? Sand blasting is a dirty job, but I love it, I find it relaxing.? Get yourself a good hood that has an air feed.? I did not know that silica sand is dangerous, that is all I use but I wear heavy coveralls and gloves.? My system is 80 cfm at 80 psi and that seems plenty.? I never reuse my sand because it looses bite and like Alec says, it will plug your tip, but not until you have crawled inside a tight space and got comfortable :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/1/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 1, 2015, 7:55 PM I guess I should blast my viewports as well.?? Gee I made them so smooth !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:38:21 -0500 Not sure about yhe zinc coating. I used Macropoxy as the first coat and High solid poly as my second coat. I don't know if that helps, but it is what I did.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Date:04/30/2015? 8:25 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: PSubs Cc: ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating All,?Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself.? Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such.? But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ???? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ??? Are there different types of zinc coatings??? ?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 00:38:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 04:38:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Message-ID: <1755132887.89301.1430541480240.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would costto the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in.Including labour.Either K250, 350 or similar size sub.Thanks Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 00:57:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 21:57:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Message-ID: <20150501215746.C49008DB@m0048139.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 08:14:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 05:14:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating In-Reply-To: <20150501215746.C49008DB@m0048139.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1430568897.94366.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, My system is smaller than what you have and not even from the same planet as Scotts :-) Wow 5 min and 1/2 nozzle! Scott can run pea gravel through his :-) My system holds 80 lb sand and takes 20 min to run it through. Your system will be a bit faster, 80 psi and 80 cfm is what my tank and nozzle call for. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/2/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, May 2, 2015, 12:57 AM just testing --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 03:31:12 +0000 (UTC) Brian,if you blast the outside tomorrow won't you have to coat it immediately with a primerto prevent rust? I might be reading this wrong, but you hadn't sorted your paint sysytem yet.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2015 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Hank ,? The compressor has a max pressure of 150 psi and a tank of 30 gal,? but it can only maintain a cfm of probably 80.? I got a fairly large blasting reservoir unit that is probably around 20 gals or so.? It's ok if I can't blast the whole side of the sub at once, I'll just go at the pace the unit can handle.? I've got this really hard slag in places where they formed the hemispheres, from the heat.? It's as hard as diamond !? If I hit is with a slag hammer it pops of, but in very small sections.? I tried grinding it and all it did was polish !? It'll come off but slowly.? I'm going to experiment with the blaster tomorrow.? I might try and rig a scuba facemask for back in the battery compartment later. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 17:38:29 -0700 Brian, What size compressor did you buy?? Sand blasting is a dirty job, but I love it, I find it relaxing.? Get yourself a good hood that has an air feed.? I did not know that silica sand is dangerous, that is all I use but I wear heavy coveralls and gloves.? My system is 80 cfm at 80 psi and that seems plenty.? I never reuse my sand because it looses bite and like Alec says, it will plug your tip, but not until you have crawled inside a tight space and got comfortable :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/1/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 1, 2015, 7:55 PM I guess I should blast my viewports as well.?? Gee I made them so smooth !?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:38:21 -0500 Not sure about yhe zinc coating. I used Macropoxy as the first coat and High solid poly as my second coat. I don't know if that helps, but it is what I did.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Date:04/30/2015? 8:25 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: PSubs Cc: ? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Zinc coating All,?Ok, I was going to take my pressure hull ( it's finished , BTW) down and have an outfit zinc coat it but now I'm thinking that I should spend that money on a heavy duty air compressor and a sand blaster and do it myself.? Since I'm sure I will need to be recoating places where I'm doing thru hulls and such.? But my question is do I need to worry about the compatibility between the zinc coating and the epoxy that will on over the zinc ???? Should I put the zinc on the inside too ??? Are there different types of zinc coatings??? ?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 08:48:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 08:48:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost In-Reply-To: <1755132887.89301.1430541480240.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1755132887.89301.1430541480240.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5544C799.8010604@psubs.org> Not intending to be flip, but it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. From my experience a used K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon accessories. When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now). Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would cost > to the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in. > Including labour. > Either K250, 350 or similar size sub. > Thanks Alan > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 10:48:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 10:48:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Message-ID: Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. Dean In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Not intending to be flip, but it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. From my experience a used K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon accessories. When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now). Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would cost to the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in. Including labour. Either K250, 350 or similar size sub. Thanks Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 12:12:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 09:12:19 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1430583139.79351.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dean, Where are you located, would you haul it over the boarder into Canada? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/2/15, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Saturday, May 2, 2015, 10:48 AM Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. ? Dean ? In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Not intending to be flip, but it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.? From my experience a used K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon accessories.? When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now).? Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would cost to the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in. Including labour. Either K250, 350 or similar size sub. Thanks Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 13:10:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 13:10:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Message-ID: Hank I am around Duluth Mn. I don't think bringing it across the border would be a problem. Dean In a message dated 5/2/2015 11:12:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Dean, Where are you located, would you haul it over the boarder into Canada? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/2/15, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Saturday, May 2, 2015, 10:48 AM Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. Dean In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Not intending to be flip, but it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. From my experience a used K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon accessories. When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now). Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would cost to the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in. Including labour. Either K250, 350 or similar size sub. Thanks Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 15:30:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 19:30:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1889071425.363239.1430595026166.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi, thanks but I am after a ball park "hull only"manufacturing cost for standard construction methods,to compare it with other materials & processes.Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Hank I am around Duluth Mn. I don't think bringing it across the border would be a problem.?Dean?In a message dated 5/2/2015 11:12:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Dean, Where are you located, would you haul it over the boarder into Canada? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/2/15, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Saturday, May 2, 2015, 10:48 AM Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. ? Dean ? In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ?? Not intending to be flip, but it's worth ?? whatever someone is willing to pay for it.? From my experience a used ?? K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon ?? accessories.? When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K ?? but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now).? ?? Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), ?? check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via ?? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ?? ? ?? Any guesses on what the hull ? ?? component of a submarine would cost ? ?? to the stage where it was ? ?? ready for painting & without view ports in. ? ?? Including labour. ? ?? Either K250, 350 or similar ? ?? size sub. ? ?? Thanks Alan ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles ?? mailing ?? list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 16:49:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 13:49:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost In-Reply-To: <1889071425.363239.1430595026166.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1430599768.15215.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Are you reconsidering your plan for cast aluminum? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/2/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, May 2, 2015, 3:30 PM Hi, thanks but I am after a ball park "hull only"manufacturing cost for standard construction methods,to compare it with other materials & processes.Alan From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Hank I am around Duluth Mn. I don't think bringing it across the border would be a problem. ? Dean ? In a message dated 5/2/2015 11:12:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Dean, Where are you located, would you haul it over the boarder into Canada? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/2/15, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Received: Saturday, May 2, 2015, 10:48 AM Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. ? Dean ? In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: ?? Not intending to be flip, but it's worth ?? whatever someone is willing to pay for it.? From my experience a used ?? K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon ?? accessories.? When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K ?? but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now).? ?? Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), ?? check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via ?? Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?? ? ?? ? ?? Any guesses on what the hull ? ?? component of a submarine would cost ? ?? to the stage where it was ? ?? ready for painting & without view ports in. ? ?? Including labour. ? ?? Either K250, 350 or similar ? ?? size sub. ? ?? Thanks Alan ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles ?? mailing ?? list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 19:17:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 11:17:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel In-Reply-To: <5e567f28-8fc2-4ff5-9c81-7a74a712dfec@email.android.com> References: <20150501074004.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.201cf98b67.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <55439F54.60002@telus.net> <5543A210.7030104@psubs.org> <5e567f28-8fc2-4ff5-9c81-7a74a712dfec@email.android.com> Message-ID: <55455b22.c280460a.7b2d.ffff9927@mx.google.com> And those wonderful units for some of the older members of NZ! From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 2 May 2015 6:23 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel The program isn't ready for public release, although the spherical shell module works fine. Before I release it, I'll add in the archaic units for the benefit of those in Myanmar, Liberia and the United States. Sean On May 1, 2015 9:56:00 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes, I used .8 as the usage factor for a516-70. Until you know what the minimum thickness of a formed head is the numbers have to be considered approximate anyway. For example, .75 inch HY-100 will clearly get Scott where he wants to go, but I don't know if that would require 1 inch plate or 1.25 inch plate to ensure a minimum thickness of .75 inch after forming. I like your program Sean. Looks like there's a bug in it though...everything displayed in metric. :) Where do I make a "feature" request for english unit output? Jon On 5/1/2015 11:44 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: FYI: This is for a 72" sphere with 1.25" thick material. Where this may differ from Jon's calculation is that the Usage Factor, eta, used in this program is 0.67 as specified by ABS. Jon apparently used 0.8, which increases conservatism. Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11562 (20150501) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 21:06:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 20:06:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Message-ID: Dean, I might be interested if Hank doesn't want it. My wife has been wanting a project sub. First girl in psubs, haha -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/02/2015 9:48 AM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. Dean In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Not intending to be flip, but it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. From my experience a used K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon accessories. When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now). Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would cost to the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in. Including labour. Either K250, 350 or similar size sub. Thanks Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 22:45:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 22:45:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Message-ID: <1b316c.39e377e6.4276e5cd@aol.com> Hey Scott I am sure the girls would do fine. Just don't know if pink would be the right color. Dean In a message dated 5/2/2015 8:07:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Dean, I might be interested if Hank doesn't want it. My wife has been wanting a project sub. First girl in psubs, haha -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/02/2015 9:48 AM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. Dean In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Not intending to be flip, but it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. From my experience a used K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon accessories. When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now). Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would cost to the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in. Including labour. Either K250, 350 or similar size sub. Thanks Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list _Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 2 22:53:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 21:53:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Message-ID: She wants it lime green. Haha. We just about bought her a K-250 project sub, but it had to many problems and would have been cheaper to start by scratch. Let me know if Hank passes on it Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/02/2015 9:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Hey Scott I am sure the girls would do fine. Just don't know if pink would be the right color. Dean In a message dated 5/2/2015 8:07:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Dean, I might be interested if Hank doesn't want it. My wife has been wanting a project sub. First girl in psubs, haha -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/02/2015 9:48 AM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. Dean In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Not intending to be flip, but it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. From my experience a used K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon accessories. When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now). Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would cost to the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in. Including labour. Either K250, 350 or similar size sub. Thanks Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 3 07:24:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 04:24:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1430652276.8973.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Scott, I was asking on behalf of a friend, please go ahead and buy it. My friend is on the fence. You know what they say "you snooze you loose" . Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/2/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, May 2, 2015, 10:53 PM She wants it lime green. Haha. We just about bought her a K-250 project sub, but it had to many problems and would have been cheaper to start by scratch. Let me know if Hank passes on itThanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/02/2015 9:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Hey Scott I am sure the girls would do fine. Just don't know if pink would be the right color. ? Dean ? In a message dated 5/2/2015 8:07:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Dean, I might be interested if Hank doesn't want it. My wife has been wanting a project sub. First girl in psubs, haha -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/02/2015 9:48 AM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hull construction cost Alan and all. I have a 350, and it needs a good home. For just the basic hull I will let it go to the right person for 7,000. That is a lot less then I have in it. I also have all kinds of goodies to go with it. All the extra stuff can be had for what I paid for it. I can even transport for the right price. ? Dean ? In a message dated 5/2/2015 7:49:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes: Not intending to be flip, but it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.? From my experience a used K350 in dive condition can be sold for about 20-30k depending upon accessories.? When I was in the mood to sell the K600, I asked for 40K but was only offered between 25-35k so I held on to it (glad I did now).? Dean Ackman is selling his K350 for a ridiculously low price (in my opinion), check it out on the web site. On 5/2/2015 12:38 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Any guesses on what the hull component of a submarine would cost to the stage where it was ready for painting & without view ports in. Including labour. Either K250, 350 or similar size sub. Thanks Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 3 15:19:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 14:19:38 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 Message-ID: Dean, Can you contact me off list?? swaters at waters-ks.com Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 3 17:53:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 22:53:47 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Mask Message-ID: Hi All. I was talking with Antoine\Emile the other day about manual scrubbing. I have made a mask which uses a standard 3M dust filter and directs exhaled air into the scrubber. This particular mask has valves so you would breath in through the filters and out through the centre vent. Filters are not needed. I have added an silicone 02 breathing hose I got of ebay and bolted\glued it through onto the mask. The hose swivels around so its really convenient. I attached the hose to the normal scrubber outlet with a suitable piece of pipe which I machined a taper on to push into the outlet hose. It was really simple and works well. I haven't tested it yet with the scrubber absorbent in but the mask itself seems good. I really dislike putting pictures of myself up, but I have to put this very unflattering one on here to demonstrate the device! For some reason, t?he light makes it look like I have 2 black eyes, which I don't. Kind Regards James ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Manual Scrubber.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 108515 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 3 17:54:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 22:54:47 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manual Scrubber pic 2 Message-ID: ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Manual Scrubber2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 139991 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 3 22:39:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 22:39:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Mask In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5546DBEA.7020706@psubs.org> Very cool. Do you have this documented on your website? It would be nice to have a parts list and basic instructions. On 5/3/2015 5:53 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All. > I was talking with Antoine\Emile the other day about manual scrubbing. > I have made a mask which uses a standard 3M dust filter and directs > exhaled air into the scrubber. > This particular mask has valves so you would breath in through the > filters and out through the centre vent. Filters are not needed. > I have added an silicone 02 breathing hose I got of ebay and > bolted\glued it through onto the mask. The hose swivels around so its > really convenient. I attached the hose to the normal scrubber outlet > with a suitable piece of pipe which I machined a taper on to push into > the outlet hose. > It was really simple and works well. I haven't tested it yet with the > scrubber absorbent in but the mask itself seems good. > I really dislike putting pictures of myself up, but I have to put this > very unflattering one on here to demonstrate the device! For some > reason, t?he light makes it look like I have 2 black eyes, which I don't. > Kind Regards > James > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 09:22:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 06:22:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20150504062209.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.733499e9f5.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 10:26:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 15:26:57 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Mask In-Reply-To: <5546DBEA.7020706@psubs.org> References: <5546DBEA.7020706@psubs.org> Message-ID: Hi Jon, No I haven't put it on yet but I will do later. Regards James On Monday, 4 May 2015, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Very cool. Do you have this documented on your website? It would be nice > to have a parts list and basic instructions. > > > On 5/3/2015 5:53 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi All. >> I was talking with Antoine\Emile the other day about manual scrubbing. >> I have made a mask which uses a standard 3M dust filter and directs >> exhaled air into the scrubber. >> This particular mask has valves so you would breath in through the >> filters and out through the centre vent. Filters are not needed. >> I have added an silicone 02 breathing hose I got of ebay and bolted\glued >> it through onto the mask. The hose swivels around so its really >> convenient. I attached the hose to the normal scrubber outlet with a >> suitable piece of pipe which I machined a taper on to push into the outlet >> hose. >> It was really simple and works well. I haven't tested it yet with the >> scrubber absorbent in but the mask itself seems good. >> I really dislike putting pictures of myself up, but I have to put this >> very unflattering one on here to demonstrate the device! For some reason, >> t?he light makes it look like I have 2 black eyes, which I don't. >> Kind Regards >> James >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 11:24:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 08:24:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS Hull calulation Spreadsheet - How to use. Message-ID: <20150504082411.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c92d453455.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 11:25:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 08:25:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20150504082537.C488CDB1@m0005297.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 11:33:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 11:33:53 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20150504062209.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.733499e9f5.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150504062209.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.733499e9f5.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order: 1) A plain old wood saw 2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade 3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler ( http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > > I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle > tanks? > > *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use > *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry > *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently > > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 11:54:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 08:54:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20150504082537.C488CDB1@m0005297.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1430754892.49312.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I use a different method than Alec, Alec's method is better for a very complex part. I take donor fiberglass like truck canopy's shower stalls and what ever is around. I cut the sections I need out of the donor material and fiberglass it together. In your case if your going to use plywood, substitute with fiberglass panels. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 11:25 AM I have a question on fiberglass,? I'm probably going to have some fiberglass faring in places, if I do fiberglass over 1/8" plywood will there be any issue with the compression crushing the wood???? if the wood has some resin soaked into it I would think it would be quite strong.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: "psubs" Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 06:22:09 -0700 ?Alec, ? I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? ? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently ? ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 12:30:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 18:30:54 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Mask In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks really neat James! regards, Antoine On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 11:53 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All. > > I was talking with Antoine\Emile the other day about manual scrubbing. > > I have made a mask which uses a standard 3M dust filter and directs > exhaled air into the scrubber. > > This particular mask has valves so you would breath in through the filters > and out through the centre vent. Filters are not needed. > > I have added an silicone 02 breathing hose I got of ebay and bolted\glued > it through onto the mask. The hose swivels around so its really > convenient. I attached the hose to the normal scrubber outlet with a > suitable piece of pipe which I machined a taper on to push into the outlet > hose. > > It was really simple and works well. I haven't tested it yet with the > scrubber absorbent in but the mask itself seems good. > > I really dislike putting pictures of myself up, but I have to put this > very unflattering one on here to demonstrate the device! For some reason, > t?he light makes it look like I have 2 black eyes, which I don't. > > Kind Regards > James > > > > ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Manual Scrubber.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 108515 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 13:22:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 07:22:21 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Mask In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: James, Thanks for the picture as a picture is worth a thousand words. I was going to do the same thing but was planning on using a mouth piece from a double hose regulator as it has the built in check valve for the exhaust but I like your idea a lot better as it looks more comfortable and you can include the filter to catch any dust! PS: you look fine since most of your face is covered!, just kidding[?] Rick On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 11:53 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All. > > I was talking with Antoine\Emile the other day about manual scrubbing. > > I have made a mask which uses a standard 3M dust filter and directs > exhaled air into the scrubber. > > This particular mask has valves so you would breath in through the filters > and out through the centre vent. Filters are not needed. > > I have added an silicone 02 breathing hose I got of ebay and bolted\glued > it through onto the mask. The hose swivels around so its really > convenient. I attached the hose to the normal scrubber outlet with a > suitable piece of pipe which I machined a taper on to push into the outlet > hose. > > It was really simple and works well. I haven't tested it yet with the > scrubber absorbent in but the mask itself seems good. > > I really dislike putting pictures of myself up, but I have to put this > very unflattering one on here to demonstrate the device! For some reason, > t?he light makes it look like I have 2 black eyes, which I don't. > > Kind Regards > James > > > > ? > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Manual Scrubber.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 108515 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 360.gif Type: image/gif Size: 453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 14:15:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 11:15:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20150504111515.C48FA05A@m0005296.ppops.net> Hank, do you thing the compression would damage anything? Maybe it would make it stronger! Were talking very thin plywood. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 08:54:52 -0700 Brian, I use a different method than Alec, Alec's method is better for a very complex part. I take donor fiberglass like truck canopy's shower stalls and what ever is around. I cut the sections I need out of the donor material and fiberglass it together. In your case if your going to use plywood, substitute with fiberglass panels. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 11:25 AM I have a question on fiberglass,? I'm probably going to have some fiberglass faring in places, if I do fiberglass over 1/8" plywood will there be any issue with the compression crushing the wood???? if the wood has some resin soaked into it I would think it would be quite strong.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: "psubs" Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 06:22:09 -0700 ?Alec, ? I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? ? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently ? ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 14:23:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 11:23:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20150504111515.C48FA05A@m0005296.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1430763825.58666.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I doubt the compression would bother the ply, but I would be concerned that it might de-lamb. You can probably find flat panels of fiberglass. What is the worst that can happen, you have to replace a panel. Why fiberglass it for that matter, plywood is strong stuff, go one size thicker and forget the cost of Fiberglass. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 2:15 PM Hank,? do you thing the compression would damage anything????Maybe it would make it stronger!? Were talking very thin plywood. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 08:54:52 -0700 Brian, I use a different method than Alec, Alec's method is better for a very complex part.? I take donor fiberglass like truck canopy's shower stalls and what ever is around.? I cut the sections I need out of the donor material and fiberglass it together.? In your case if your going to use plywood, substitute with fiberglass panels.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 11:25 AM I have a question on fiberglass,? I'm probably going to have some fiberglass faring in places, if I do fiberglass over 1/8" plywood will there be any issue with the compression crushing the wood???? if the wood has some resin soaked into it I would think it would be quite strong.?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: "psubs" Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 06:22:09 -0700 ?Alec, ? I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? ? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently ? ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 16:21:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 21:21:56 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Mask In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I updated my site. In a bit of a rush so the txt at the top I need to remove. Also not sure why they links aren't working along the bottom. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Modifications_files/Page1191.htm On 4 May 2015 at 18:22, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > Thanks for the picture as a picture is worth a thousand words. I was going > to do the same thing but was planning on using a mouth piece from a double > hose regulator as it has the built in check valve for the exhaust but I > like your idea a lot better as it looks more comfortable and you can > include the filter to catch any dust! > PS: you look fine since most of your face is covered!, just kidding[?] > Rick > > > On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 11:53 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hi All. >> >> I was talking with Antoine\Emile the other day about manual scrubbing. >> >> I have made a mask which uses a standard 3M dust filter and directs >> exhaled air into the scrubber. >> >> This particular mask has valves so you would breath in through the >> filters and out through the centre vent. Filters are not needed. >> >> I have added an silicone 02 breathing hose I got of ebay and bolted\glued >> it through onto the mask. The hose swivels around so its really >> convenient. I attached the hose to the normal scrubber outlet with a >> suitable piece of pipe which I machined a taper on to push into the outlet >> hose. >> >> It was really simple and works well. I haven't tested it yet with the >> scrubber absorbent in but the mask itself seems good. >> >> I really dislike putting pictures of myself up, but I have to put this >> very unflattering one on here to demonstrate the device! For some reason, >> t?he light makes it look like I have 2 black eyes, which I don't. >> >> Kind Regards >> James >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Manual Scrubber.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 108515 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 360.gif Type: image/gif Size: 453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 16:33:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 20:33:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: References: <20150504062209.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.733499e9f5.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1174705440.1716215.1430771612732.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Scott,some great ideas from Alec there.I like his idea of using sandwiches of thinner sheets of polystyrene.You should be able to trace a shape on one sheet, cut it out, thencopy around it on to the corresponding sheet of the mirror imageballast tank, to get two tanks that are identical.When I did mine I marked the hull with a felt pen as to where theballast tank was going to fit against it. I covered this area with plasticfood wrap. I then draped glass mat over it?& epoxied about 3 layers over this.?Polyester resin will disolve the plastic food wrap. This approach may be a problemon vertical walls & there may be a similar appoach that works better.You need to embed this shape in to the polystyrene section by wire brushingout the polystyrene untill it's a good fit. Because of shrinkage of the fiberglass& warping it won't nessecarily be a perfect match & may require additional work.Once you have the polystyrene shape done you cover it with fiberglass & go overthe area you formed against the hull.I used epoxy because it can go straight on to the polystyrene (test it first) &you can spend a month slowly building it up, whereas polyester resin is designedto be laminated in one shot. It is air inhibited & remains tacky on the outersurface unless it has a wax additive.I once made a 1/4 size ambulance out of polystyrene using mainly achain saw. Great fun but one hell of a mess.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order:1) A plain old wood saw2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it.? This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. ? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,?I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks??*Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use*How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently??Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 17:01:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 14:01:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20150504140140.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.48a57d49d8.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 17:04:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 14:04:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Saddle Tanks Message-ID: <20150504140430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.41c05b799f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 17:11:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 17:11:07 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <1174705440.1716215.1430771612732.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20150504062209.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.733499e9f5.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <1174705440.1716215.1430771612732.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Interesting comment about the polyester being designed for one shot. The polyester resin I used is from 3M and the instructions say that it you restart the job on a cured layer you should sand it lightly first - so that's what I did, since it took about a month to get the desired number of layers on. It didn't seem to have any bonding issues with layers applied on cured material. This particular 3M polyester cures fully in 2 hours, and didn't feel tacky after that, so perhaps this is brand specific. Good point about the sections helping make the mirror versions of the MBTs. I made templates out of thin particle board to cut out the foam sections, and by flipping the templates was able to make mirror image tanks. Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Scott, > some great ideas from Alec there. > I like his idea of using sandwiches of thinner sheets of polystyrene. > You should be able to trace a shape on one sheet, cut it out, then > copy around it on to the corresponding sheet of the mirror image > ballast tank, to get two tanks that are identical. > When I did mine I marked the hull with a felt pen as to where the > ballast tank was going to fit against it. I covered this area with plastic > food wrap. I then draped glass mat over it & epoxied about 3 layers over > this. > Polyester resin will disolve the plastic food wrap. This approach may be a > problem > on vertical walls & there may be a similar appoach that works better. > You need to embed this shape in to the polystyrene section by wire brushing > out the polystyrene untill it's a good fit. Because of shrinkage of the > fiberglass > & warping it won't nessecarily be a perfect match & may require additional > work. > Once you have the polystyrene shape done you cover it with fiberglass & go > over > the area you formed against the hull. > I used epoxy because it can go straight on to the polystyrene (test it > first) & > you can spend a month slowly building it up, whereas polyester resin is > designed > to be laminated in one shot. It is air inhibited & remains tacky on the > outer > surface unless it has a wax additive. > I once made a 1/4 size ambulance out of polystyrene using mainly a > chain saw. Great fun but one hell of a mess. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:33 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass > > Hi Scott, > > Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four > rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off > rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam > plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: > > - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam > from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections > with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about > a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue > them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would > be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with > what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably > take quite a lot of it. > > - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you > have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything > is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final > product, in this order: > 1) A plain old wood saw > 2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted > depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it > for 99% of the job. See > http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade > 3) Sand paper > > I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put > the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking > measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but > close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. > > - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is > to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you > run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. > > - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all > in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main > considerations then, cloth and resin. > > I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, > because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new > stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but > this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly > good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would > drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on > the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much > heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same > goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves > its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make > the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be > banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I > probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum > bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to > avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I > get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next > layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This > material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and > once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea > is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I > hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be > quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer > should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand > imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. > > This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone > will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 > per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up > perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of > cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. > > - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used > West Marine's #410 fairing filler ( > http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). > You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. > > - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam > dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand > foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Alec, > > I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle > tanks? > > *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use > *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry > *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently > > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 17:14:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 14:14:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1430774063.90534.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Tacky means weak hardener ratio or poor mix. Tricky stuff! Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 5:11 PM Hi Alan, Interesting comment about the polyester being designed for one shot. The polyester resin I used is from 3M and the instructions say that it you restart the job on a cured layer you should sand it lightly first - so that's what I did, since it took about a month to get the desired number of layers on. It didn't seem to have any bonding issues with layers applied on cured material. This particular 3M polyester cures fully in 2 hours, and didn't feel tacky after that, so perhaps this is brand specific. ?? Good point about the sections helping make the mirror versions of the MBTs. I made templates out of thin particle board to cut out the foam sections, and by flipping the templates was able to make mirror image tanks.? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,some great ideas from Alec there.I like his idea of using sandwiches of thinner sheets of polystyrene.You should be able to trace a shape on one sheet, cut it out, thencopy around it on to the corresponding sheet of the mirror imageballast tank, to get two tanks that are identical.When I did mine I marked the hull with a felt pen as to where theballast tank was going to fit against it. I covered this area with plasticfood wrap. I then draped glass mat over it?& epoxied about 3 layers over this.?Polyester resin will disolve the plastic food wrap. This approach may be a problemon vertical walls & there may be a similar appoach that works better.You need to embed this shape in to the polystyrene section by wire brushingout the polystyrene untill it's a good fit. Because of shrinkage of the fiberglass& warping it won't nessecarily be a perfect match & may require additional work.Once you have the polystyrene shape done you cover it with fiberglass & go overthe area you formed against the hull.I used epoxy because it can go straight on to the polystyrene (test it first) &you can spend a month slowly building it up, whereas polyester resin is designedto be laminated in one shot. It is air inhibited & remains tacky on the outersurface unless it has a wax additive.I once made a 1/4 size ambulance out of polystyrene using mainly achain saw. Great fun but one hell of a mess.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order:1) A plain old wood saw2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it.? This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. ? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, ? I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? ? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently ? ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 17:19:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 17:19:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Saddle Tanks In-Reply-To: <20150504140430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.41c05b799f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150504140430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.41c05b799f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Nothing at all wrong with it that I can think of. Except if you do that, you'll probably want to chop the front endcap and put on a proper dome as well to finish the job! Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 5:04 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Has anyone ever built a K-350 with fixed thrusters and saddle tanks > instead of fore and aft MBTs? I was thinking this would improve stability, > eliminate burping, give you a surface to walk on, and give you visibility > looking up from the front viewport? Is there anything wrong with that idea > that I am not seeing? > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 17:23:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 14:23:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Saddle Tanks Message-ID: <20150504142303.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0823c7a989.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 17:38:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 21:38:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <1430774063.90534.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1430774063.90534.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1608456640.1792821.1430775510360.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,I mean when the fiberglass has cured & just the surface is tacky.It is meant to be like this to form a chemical bond with the next layer.If you wait for the surface to dry (in time) then the next layer doesn't adhere as well.I used clear cast polyester resin in art works, & you had to add paraphin wax inliquid form to stop the surface becomming tacky.There are two general types of polyester resin used for repair. Laminating or Bonding resin which cure to a tacky surface and Fiberglass or Marine Finish resin which cures to a non-tacky surface.Laminating resin?(Evercoat # 100560, 100561) is used for initial coats on wood or for multiple applications with fiberglass cloth or mat. This resin is air-inhibited which means it will cure to a tacky finish and does not require sanding between coats. This is desirable in laminating because the layers adhere to each other better. This product should not be used as a final coat unless measures are taken to seal out the air during the curing process.Marine and Fiberglass resin?(Evercoat # 100553, 100552, 100554, 100517, 100518, 105499, 105498, 105500, and 105501) is non air-inhibited or?waxed resin. It is for the final coat. This resin cures with a hard non-tacky surface. When the catalyzed resin is applied as a final coat to the laminate coats of resin, the wax rises to the top, sealing off the air and allows the resin to cure to a hard finish, which can then be sanded, painted or gel coated.NOTE: Cannot be used with aluminum, redwood and/or close-grained woods like oak or cedar. Do not use with Styrofoam.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Alan, Tacky means weak hardener ratio or poor mix.? Tricky stuff! Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 5:11 PM Hi Alan, Interesting comment about the polyester being designed for one shot. The polyester resin I used is from 3M and the instructions say that it you restart the job on a cured layer you should sand it lightly first - so that's what I did, since it took about a month to get the desired number of layers on. It didn't seem to have any bonding issues with layers applied on cured material. This particular 3M polyester cures fully in 2 hours, and didn't feel tacky after that, so perhaps this is brand specific. ?? Good point about the sections helping make the mirror versions of the MBTs. I made templates out of thin particle board to cut out the foam sections, and by flipping the templates was able to make mirror image tanks.? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,some great ideas from Alec there.I like his idea of using sandwiches of thinner sheets of polystyrene.You should be able to trace a shape on one sheet, cut it out, thencopy around it on to the corresponding sheet of the mirror imageballast tank, to get two tanks that are identical.When I did mine I marked the hull with a felt pen as to where theballast tank was going to fit against it. I covered this area with plasticfood wrap. I then draped glass mat over it?& epoxied about 3 layers over this.?Polyester resin will disolve the plastic food wrap. This approach may be a problemon vertical walls & there may be a similar appoach that works better.You need to embed this shape in to the polystyrene section by wire brushingout the polystyrene untill it's a good fit. Because of shrinkage of the fiberglass& warping it won't nessecarily be a perfect match & may require additional work.Once you have the polystyrene shape done you cover it with fiberglass & go overthe area you formed against the hull.I used epoxy because it can go straight on to the polystyrene (test it first) &you can spend a month slowly building it up, whereas polyester resin is designedto be laminated in one shot. It is air inhibited & remains tacky on the outersurface unless it has a wax additive.I once made a 1/4 size ambulance out of polystyrene using mainly achain saw. Great fun but one hell of a mess.Alan ? ? ? ? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:33 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass ? ? Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order:1) A plain old wood saw2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it.? This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. ? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, ? I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? ? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently ? ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 17:51:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 14:51:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <1608456640.1792821.1430775510360.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1430776311.15205.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Oh I misunderstood, I hate fiberglass! :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 5:38 PM Hank,I mean when the fiberglass has cured & just the surface is tacky.It is meant to be like this to form a chemical bond with the next layer.If you wait for the surface to dry (in time) then the next layer doesn't adhere as well.I used clear cast polyester resin in art works, & you had to add paraphin wax inliquid form to stop the surface becomming tacky.There are two general types of polyester resin used for repair. Laminating or Bonding resin which cure to a tacky surface and Fiberglass or Marine Finish resin which cures to a non-tacky surface.Laminating resin?(Evercoat # 100560, 100561) is used for initial coats on wood or for multiple applications with fiberglass cloth or mat. This resin is air-inhibited which means it will cure to a tacky finish and does not require sanding between coats. This is desirable in laminating because the layers adhere to each other better. This product should not be used as a final coat unless measures are taken to seal out the air during the curing process.Marine and Fiberglass resin?(Evercoat # 100553, 100552, 100554, 100517, 100518, 105499, 105498, 105500, and 105501) is non air-inhibited or?waxed resin. It is for the final coat. This resin cures with a hard non-tacky surface. When the catalyzed resin is applied as a final coat to the laminate coats of resin, the wax rises to the top, sealing off the air and allows the resin to cure to a hard finish, which can then be sanded, painted or gel coated.NOTE: Cannot be used with aluminum, redwood and/or close-grained woods like oak or cedar. Do not use with Styrofoam.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Alan, Tacky means weak hardener ratio or poor mix.? Tricky stuff! Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 5:11 PM Hi Alan, Interesting comment about the polyester being designed for one shot. The polyester resin I used is from 3M and the instructions say that it you restart the job on a cured layer you should sand it lightly first - so that's what I did, since it took about a month to get the desired number of layers on. It didn't seem to have any bonding issues with layers applied on cured material. This particular 3M polyester cures fully in 2 hours, and didn't feel tacky after that, so perhaps this is brand specific. ?? Good point about the sections helping make the mirror versions of the MBTs. I made templates out of thin particle board to cut out the foam sections, and by flipping the templates was able to make mirror image tanks.? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,some great ideas from Alec there.I like his idea of using sandwiches of thinner sheets of polystyrene.You should be able to trace a shape on one sheet, cut it out, thencopy around it on to the corresponding sheet of the mirror imageballast tank, to get two tanks that are identical.When I did mine I marked the hull with a felt pen as to where theballast tank was going to fit against it. I covered this area with plasticfood wrap. I then draped glass mat over it?& epoxied about 3 layers over this.?Polyester resin will disolve the plastic food wrap. This approach may be a problemon vertical walls & there may be a similar appoach that works better.You need to embed this shape in to the polystyrene section by wire brushingout the polystyrene untill it's a good fit. Because of shrinkage of the fiberglass& warping it won't nessecarily be a perfect match & may require additional work.Once you have the polystyrene shape done you cover it with fiberglass & go overthe area you formed against the hull.I used epoxy because it can go straight on to the polystyrene (test it first) &you can spend a month slowly building it up, whereas polyester resin is designedto be laminated in one shot. It is air inhibited & remains tacky on the outersurface unless it has a wax additive.I once made a 1/4 size ambulance out of polystyrene using mainly achain saw. Great fun but one hell of a mess.Alan ? ? ? ? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:33 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass ? ? Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order:1) A plain old wood saw2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it.? This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. ? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, ? I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? ? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently ? ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 18:05:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 10:05:55 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <1430776311.15205.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1608456640.1792821.1430775510360.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1430776311.15205.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5547ed3e.67d4440a.7eaa.ffffa256@mx.google.com> Just put in my penny's worth. I had professional advice as I don't know squat about resins. I understand there are 3 choices of fibreglass resin. Poly-ester, Epoxy and Vinyl ester. I was advised to use vinyl ester as it has less absorption of water when in a pressurised (deep submerged) situation. My concern was that the absorption would alter the buoyancy of the fibreglass if there is any reasonable amount used. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 5 May 2015 9:52 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Alan, Oh I misunderstood, I hate fiberglass! :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 5:38 PM Hank,I mean when the fiberglass has cured & just the surface is tacky.It is meant to be like this to form a chemical bond with the next layer.If you wait for the surface to dry (in time) then the next layer doesn't adhere as well.I used clear cast polyester resin in art works, & you had to add paraphin wax inliquid form to stop the surface becomming tacky.There are two general types of polyester resin used for repair. Laminating or Bonding resin which cure to a tacky surface and Fiberglass or Marine Finish resin which cures to a non-tacky surface.Laminating resin?(Evercoat # 100560, 100561) is used for initial coats on wood or for multiple applications with fiberglass cloth or mat. This resin is air-inhibited which means it will cure to a tacky finish and does not require sanding between coats. This is desirable in laminating because the layers adhere to each other better. This product should not be used as a final coat unless measures are taken to seal out the air during the curing process.Marine and Fiberglass resin?(Evercoat # 100553, 100552, 100554, 100517, 100518, 105499, 105498, 105500, and 105501) is non air-inhibited or?waxed resin. It is for the final coat. This resin cures with a hard non-tacky surface. When the catalyzed resin is applied as a final coat to the laminate coats of resin, the wax rises to the top, sealing off the air and allows the resin to cure to a hard finish, which can then be sanded, painted or gel coated.NOTE: Cannot be used with aluminum, redwood and/or close-grained woods like oak or cedar. Do not use with Styrofoam.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Alan, Tacky means weak hardener ratio or poor mix.? Tricky stuff! Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 5:11 PM Hi Alan, Interesting comment about the polyester being designed for one shot. The polyester resin I used is from 3M and the instructions say that it you restart the job on a cured layer you should sand it lightly first - so that's what I did, since it took about a month to get the desired number of layers on. It didn't seem to have any bonding issues with layers applied on cured material. This particular 3M polyester cures fully in 2 hours, and didn't feel tacky after that, so perhaps this is brand specific. Good point about the sections helping make the mirror versions of the MBTs. I made templates out of thin particle board to cut out the foam sections, and by flipping the templates was able to make mirror image tanks.? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,some great ideas from Alec there.I like his idea of using sandwiches of thinner sheets of polystyrene.You should be able to trace a shape on one sheet, cut it out, thencopy around it on to the corresponding sheet of the mirror imageballast tank, to get two tanks that are identical.When I did mine I marked the hull with a felt pen as to where theballast tank was going to fit against it. I covered this area with plasticfood wrap. I then draped glass mat over it?& epoxied about 3 layers over this.?Polyester resin will disolve the plastic food wrap. This approach may be a problemon vertical walls & there may be a similar appoach that works better.You need to embed this shape in to the polystyrene section by wire brushingout the polystyrene untill it's a good fit. Because of shrinkage of the fiberglass& warping it won't nessecarily be a perfect match & may require additional work.Once you have the polystyrene shape done you cover it with fiberglass & go overthe area you formed against the hull.I used epoxy because it can go straight on to the polystyrene (test it first) &you can spend a month slowly building it up, whereas polyester resin is designedto be laminated in one shot. It is air inhibited & remains tacky on the outersurface unless it has a wax additive.I once made a 1/4 size ambulance out of polystyrene using mainly achain saw. Great fun but one hell of a mess.Alan ? ? ? ? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:33 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass ? ? Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order:1) A plain old wood saw2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TY PE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regula r+Cut+Blade3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120 _004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. ? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, ? I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? ? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently ? ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11574 (20150504) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11574 (20150504) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 18:45:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 18:45:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Saddle Tanks In-Reply-To: <20150504140430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.41c05b799f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150504140430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.41c05b799f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: That's pretty much what I'm building. Sent from my iPhone > On May 4, 2015, at 5:04 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Has anyone ever built a K-350 with fixed thrusters and saddle tanks instead of fore and aft MBTs? I was thinking this would improve stability, eliminate burping, give you a surface to walk on, and give you visibility looking up from the front viewport? Is there anything wrong with that idea that I am not seeing? > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 18:49:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 15:49:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Saddle Tanks Message-ID: <20150504154946.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.6a9726707a.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 4 20:09:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 20:09:56 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Saddle Tanks In-Reply-To: <20150504140430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.41c05b799f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150504140430.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.41c05b799f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <55480A54.1010104@psubs.org> Aquatic (K600) is being modified to use fixed thrusters and I am considering adding saddle tanks but in addition to the fore/aft tanks, not as replacements. However, I'm taking a very low tech, low cost approach to the saddle tanks. Admittedly they will not look as nice as fiberglassed custom fitted saddle tanks, but functionally they will be just fine. I'm looking at adding either 785 lbs or 1130 lbs of buoyancy depending upon the diameter of the saddle tanks I use. Jon On 5/4/2015 5:04 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Has anyone ever built a K-350 with fixed thrusters and saddle tanks > instead of fore and aft MBTs? I was thinking this would improve > stability, eliminate burping, give you a surface to walk on, and give > you visibility looking up from the front viewport? Is there anything > wrong with that idea that I am not seeing? > Thanks, > Scott Waters > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 00:09:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 21:09:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20150504210904.C489C3E7@m0005298.ppops.net> Hugh, I really think you want to use some type of epoxy. http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/pdf/Epoxy%20Coatings%20Guide.pdf The fact that the two parts create cross linked bonds is something that a one part coating can't achieve. But I have heard some good things about the vinyl ester and I'm sure it will work. brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 10:05:55 +1200 Just put in my penny's worth. I had professional advice as I don't know squat about resins. I understand there are 3 choices of fibreglass resin. Poly-ester, Epoxy and Vinyl ester. I was advised to use vinyl ester as it has less absorption of water when in a pressurised (deep submerged) situation. My concern was that the absorption would alter the buoyancy of the fibreglass if there is any reasonable amount used. Cheers, Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 5 May 2015 9:52 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Alan, Oh I misunderstood, I hate fiberglass! :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 5:38 PM Hank,I mean when the fiberglass has cured & just the surface is tacky.It is meant to be like this to form a chemical bond with the next layer.If you wait for the surface to dry (in time) then the next layer doesn't adhere as well.I used clear cast polyester resin in art works, & you had to add paraphin wax inliquid form to stop the surface becomming tacky.There are two general types of polyester resin used for repair. Laminating or Bonding resin which cure to a tacky surface and Fiberglass or Marine Finish resin which cures to a non-tacky surface.Laminating resin?(Evercoat # 100560, 100561) is used for initial coats on wood or for multiple applications with fiberglass cloth or mat. This resin is air-inhibited which means it will cure to a tacky finish and does not require sanding between coats. This is desirable in laminating because the layers adhere to each other better. This product should not be used as a final coat unless measures are taken to seal out the air during the curing process.Marine and Fiberglass resin?(Evercoat # 100553, 100552, 100554, 100517, 100518, 105499, 105498, 105500, and 105501) is non air-inhibited or?waxed resin. It is for the final coat. This resin cures with a hard non-tacky surface. When the catalyzed resin is applied as a final coat to the laminate coats of resin, the wax rises to the top, sealing off the air and allows the resin to cure to a hard finish, which can then be sanded, painted or gel coated.NOTE: Cannot be used with aluminum, redwood and/or close-grained woods like oak or cedar. Do not use with Styrofoam.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Alan, Tacky means weak hardener ratio or poor mix.? Tricky stuff! Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/4/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 4, 2015, 5:11 PM Hi Alan, Interesting comment about the polyester being designed for one shot. The polyester resin I used is from 3M and the instructions say that it you restart the job on a cured layer you should sand it lightly first - so that's what I did, since it took about a month to get the desired number of layers on. It didn't seem to have any bonding issues with layers applied on cured material. This particular 3M polyester cures fully in 2 hours, and didn't feel tacky after that, so perhaps this is brand specific. Good point about the sections helping make the mirror versions of the MBTs. I made templates out of thin particle board to cut out the foam sections, and by flipping the templates was able to make mirror image tanks.? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Scott,some great ideas from Alec there.I like his idea of using sandwiches of thinner sheets of polystyrene.You should be able to trace a shape on one sheet, cut it out, thencopy around it on to the corresponding sheet of the mirror imageballast tank, to get two tanks that are identical.When I did mine I marked the hull with a felt pen as to where theballast tank was going to fit against it. I covered this area with plasticfood wrap. I then draped glass mat over it?& epoxied about 3 layers over this.?Polyester resin will disolve the plastic food wrap. This approach may be a problemon vertical walls & there may be a similar appoach that works better.You need to embed this shape in to the polystyrene section by wire brushingout the polystyrene untill it's a good fit. Because of shrinkage of the fiberglass& warping it won't nessecarily be a perfect match & may require additional work.Once you have the polystyrene shape done you cover it with fiberglass & go overthe area you formed against the hull.I used epoxy because it can go straight on to the polystyrene (test it first) &you can spend a month slowly building it up, whereas polyester resin is designedto be laminated in one shot. It is air inhibited & remains tacky on the outersurface unless it has a wax additive.I once made a 1/4 size ambulance out of polystyrene using mainly achain saw. Great fun but one hell of a mess.Alan ? ? ? ? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:33 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass ? ? Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order:1) A plain old wood saw2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TY PE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regula r+Cut+Blade3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120 _004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. ? Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, ? I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? ? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently ? ? Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11574 (20150504) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11574 (20150504) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 09:48:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 15:48:54 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manual Scrubber pic 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for sharing James, Mask fom 3M but the hose comes from a rebreather? Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 3 mei 2015 23:55 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manual Scrubber pic 2 ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31768 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 13:36:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 11:36:38 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] How to upload a tool to the site? Message-ID: <5548FFA6.8090305@telus.net> Jon, I have prepared a standalone version of the spherical shell calculator which I would like to make available for download on PSubs. The program itself is only 377 kB, but in order to run it, a Run-Time Engine must first be installed on the host machine, and the installer for this is 256 MB. I didn't want to email it to you without checking. Let me know how to proceed. Sean From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 14:50:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 12:50:53 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Spherical Shell Calculator Message-ID: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> All - I'm going to work with Jon to get this calculator up on the PSubs site, but in the meantime, you can find the application attached to this message. In order to run the executable, you will first need to install the run-time engine, available at this link: LabVIEW 2014 SP1 Run-Time Engine (64-bit) It is about 256 MB. You need only do this once on each machine you wish to run the software on. At present, the application only supports machines running 64-bit Windows. Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: STS_SubDesigner_08a.zip Type: application/zip Size: 356973 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 14:55:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 12:55:46 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Spherical Shell Calculator In-Reply-To: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> References: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> Message-ID: <55491232.7060204@telus.net> Sorry about the above link. Try this one: LabVIEW 2014 SP1 Run-Time Engine (64-bit) Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 17:35:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 14:35:12 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link Message-ID: <1430861712.78346.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am curious if anyone knows a way that I can activate a cell phone from my submarine through my acoustic radio. I would have my acoustic radio mounted on my float (safety buoy) Since I dive alone I always tow a safety buoy with a diver flag. It would add a level of safety if I could call for help through my cell or a satellite radio. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 18:44:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 00:44:48 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link In-Reply-To: <1430861712.78346.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1430861712.78346.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53091B75-9884-4B0F-87F4-22D5C5F5642E@upplevelsepresent.se> I don't know if this is of any help, but this unit allows for GSM calls underwater. I use their hydrophone in my sub and it works great. http://www.oceanreefgroup.com/products/comms/products_alphauwcp.html Cheers Lasse Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten AB Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 > 5 maj 2015 kl. 23:38 skrev hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : > > Hi all, > I am curious if anyone knows a way that I can activate a cell phone from my submarine through my acoustic radio. I would have my acoustic radio mounted on my float (safety buoy) Since I dive alone I always tow a safety buoy with a diver flag. It would add a level of safety if I could call for help through my cell or a satellite radio. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 18:57:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 15:57:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link In-Reply-To: <53091B75-9884-4B0F-87F4-22D5C5F5642E@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1430866622.72063.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Lasse, Thank you for the link. Unfortunately they recommend a cable no longer than 50m. Most of my dive time will be between 400 and 500 feet. The cable would work fine because I tow a float the same way with buoyant nylon rope. I could bypass the acoustic radio altogether. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 5/5/15, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 6:44 PM I don't know if this is of any help, but this unit allows for GSM calls underwater. I use their hydrophone in my sub and it works great. http://www.oceanreefgroup.com/products/comms/products_alphauwcp.html Cheers Lasse Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten AB Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 > 5 maj 2015 kl. 23:38 skrev hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : > > Hi all, > I am curious if anyone knows a way that I can activate a cell phone from my submarine through my acoustic radio.? I would have my acoustic radio mounted on my float (safety buoy)? Since I dive alone I always tow a safety buoy with a diver flag.? It would add a level of safety if I could call for help through my cell or a satellite radio. > Hank? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 19:06:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:06:56 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link In-Reply-To: <1430866622.72063.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1430866622.72063.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, if that's the case you could run a dedicated data cable to your buoy, or even run a cell booster with coax up to the buoy. What diameter is the line you're currently using? Another option is optical fiber, but then you have additional hardware cost on both ends. Sean On May 5, 2015 4:57:02 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Hi Lasse, >Thank you for the link. Unfortunately they recommend a cable no longer >than 50m. Most of my dive time will be between 400 and 500 feet. The >cable would work fine because I tow a float the same way with buoyant >nylon rope. I could bypass the acoustic radio altogether. >Hank -------------------------------------------- >On Tue, 5/5/15, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 6:44 PM > > I don't know if this > is of any help, but this unit allows for GSM calls > underwater. I use their hydrophone in my sub and it works > great. > > http://www.oceanreefgroup.com/products/comms/products_alphauwcp.html > > Cheers Lasse > > Lasse Schmidt > Upplevelseakuten AB > Skeppsbron > 21, Tullhus 1 > 11130 Stockholm > Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 > Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 > > > 5 maj 2015 kl. 23:38 skrev hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles : > > > > Hi all, > > I am curious if anyone knows a way that I > can activate a cell phone from my submarine through my > acoustic radio.? I would have my acoustic radio mounted on > my float (safety buoy)? Since I dive alone I always tow a > safety buoy with a diver flag.? It would add a level of > safety if I could call for help through my cell or a > satellite radio. > > Hank? > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 19:11:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 16:11:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1430867502.97681.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sean, I am using a 1/4 inch nylon rope and it is quite buoyant. A coax would not be buoyant or is it? The line should be as buoyant as the rope to help avoid entanglement, mind you I have it rigged to be jettisoning. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 5/5/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:06 PM Hank, if that's the case you could run a dedicated data cable to your buoy, or even run a cell booster with coax up to the buoy.? What diameter is the line you're currently using?? Another option is optical fiber, but then you have additional hardware cost on both ends. Sean On May 5, 2015 4:57:02 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Lasse, Thank you for the link. Unfortunately they recommend a cable no longer than 50m. Most of my dive time will be between 400 and 500 feet. The cable would work fine because I tow a float the same way with buoyant nylon rope. I could bypass the acoustic radio altogether. Hank On Tue, 5/5/15, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 6:44 PM I don't know if this is of any help, but this unit allows for GSM calls underwater. I use their hydrophone in my sub and it works great. http://www.oceanreefgroup.com/products/comms/products_alphauwcp.html Cheers L! asse Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten AB Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 5 maj 2015 kl. 23:38 skrev hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : Hi all, I am curious if anyone knows a way that I can activate a cell phone from my submarine through my acoustic radio.? I would have my acoustic radio mounted on my float (safety buoy)? Since I dive alone I always tow a safety buoy with a diver flag.? It would add a level of safety if I could call for help through my cell or a satellite radio. Hank? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 19:36:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 16:36:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Message-ID: <1430868990.39239.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, If you need a buoyancy sphere for your deep diver sub, check this out on ebay. It is a 24 in dia titanium sphere with crazy high ratings. Hank --- On Tue, 5/5/15, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:26 PM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Sphere-TANK-24-diameter-/361288875529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 19:43:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 19:43:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Spherical Shell Calculator In-Reply-To: <55491232.7060204@telus.net> References: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> <55491232.7060204@telus.net> Message-ID: <55495587.303@psubs.org> I've put links up on the web site: WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Datasheets -> Pressure Hull -> Shell Calculator Software (Windows 64 bit) The Runtime Engine took a few minutes to download and a few more to install. You have to reboot your computer for it to take effect (I haven't rebooted yet). Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 19:55:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:55:35 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Spherical Shell Calculator In-Reply-To: <55495587.303@psubs.org> References: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> <55491232.7060204@telus.net> <55495587.303@psubs.org> Message-ID: Thanks Jon. Let me know if the software works for you. Sean On May 5, 2015 5:43:03 PM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >I've put links up on the web site: WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & >Reference -> Design Tools -> Calculators & Datasheets -> Pressure Hull >-> Shell Calculator Software (Windows 64 bit) > >The Runtime Engine took a few minutes to download and a few more to >install. You have to reboot your computer for it to take effect (I >haven't rebooted yet). > >Jon > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 20:07:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 20:07:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Spherical Shell Calculator In-Reply-To: References: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> <55491232.7060204@telus.net> <55495587.303@psubs.org> Message-ID: <55495B49.7020505@psubs.org> Works fine Sean. No problems. Result matches up perfectly with the spreadsheet Cliff created. Jon On 5/5/2015 7:55 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Jon. Let me know if the software works for you. > > Sean > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 20:13:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 20:13:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Spherical Shell Calculator In-Reply-To: <55495B49.7020505@psubs.org> References: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> <55491232.7060204@telus.net> <55495587.303@psubs.org> <55495B49.7020505@psubs.org> Message-ID: <55495CBD.3020604@psubs.org> Sean, Is the cast acrylic material the same properties as acrylic sheet? I assume you are just using PVHO-1 material properties regardless of whether it is cast or off-the-shelf sheet, but just want to confirm. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 20:16:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 18:16:01 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Spherical Shell Calculator In-Reply-To: <55495B49.7020505@psubs.org> References: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> <55491232.7060204@telus.net> <55495587.303@psubs.org> <55495B49.7020505@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1d75a319-3c3a-4862-a5bd-472fffa05991@email.android.com> Good. Still working on the cylindrical shell optimization. Chipping away at it as I find time. Sean On May 5, 2015 6:07:37 PM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Works fine Sean. No problems. Result matches up perfectly with the >spreadsheet Cliff created. > >Jon > > >On 5/5/2015 7:55 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks Jon. Let me know if the software works for you. >> >> Sean >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 20:23:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 18:23:25 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Spherical Shell Calculator In-Reply-To: <55495CBD.3020604@psubs.org> References: <5549110D.7050407@telus.net> <55491232.7060204@telus.net> <55495587.303@psubs.org> <55495B49.7020505@psubs.org> <55495CBD.3020604@psubs.org> Message-ID: <12fbcfc9-1f67-424f-9b4d-e427829d59f3@email.android.com> I used the PVHO-1 value for minimum acceptable yield in tension, since windows may not be subject to purely compressive loading (worst case scenario). Any given acrylic that you source could be stronger than that value, but in the absence of custom material definitions, you need only ensure that your material meets or exceeds the PVHO-1 specifications. Sean On May 5, 2015 6:13:49 PM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Sean, > >Is the cast acrylic material the same properties as acrylic sheet? I >assume you are just using PVHO-1 material properties regardless of >whether it is cast or off-the-shelf sheet, but just want to confirm. > >Jon > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 5 23:35:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 22:35:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Message-ID: That is really cool. Might be worth buying and hanging on to! I just picked up the submarine from Dean. Will be back in Kansas tomarrow to unload.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/05/2015 6:36 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Scott, If you need a buoyancy sphere for your deep diver sub, check this out on ebay. It is a 24 in dia titanium sphere with crazy high ratings. Hank --- On Tue, 5/5/15, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:26 PM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Sphere-TANK-24-diameter-/361288875529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 6 07:00:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 04:00:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1430910024.47903.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Well done, you better order that lime green paint soon. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 5/5/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 11:35 PM That is really cool. Might be worth buying and hanging on to! I just picked up the submarine from Dean. Will be back in Kansas tomarrow to unload.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/05/2015 6:36 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Scott, If you need a buoyancy sphere for your deep diver sub, check this out on ebay.? It is a 24 in dia titanium sphere with crazy high ratings. Hank --- On Tue, 5/5/15, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:26 PM > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Sphere-TANK-24-diameter-/361288875529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > ?? ? > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 6 08:30:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 13:30:29 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) In-Reply-To: <1430910024.47903.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1430910024.47903.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Scott. You've got 2x K350's now. You could attach them together like a 2 man deep worker! On 6 May 2015 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Scott, > Well done, you better order that lime green paint soon. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 5/5/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" > diameter) > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 11:35 PM > > That is > really cool. Might be worth buying and hanging on to! I just > picked up the submarine from Dean. Will be back in Kansas > tomarrow to unload. Thanks,Scott > Waters > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > Date:05/05/2015 6:36 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Cc: > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere > TANK (24" diameter) > > Scott, > If you need a buoyancy sphere for your deep diver sub, check > this out on ebay. It is a 24 in dia titanium sphere > with crazy high ratings. > Hank > > --- On Tue, 5/5/15, hank pronk > wrote: > > > From: hank pronk > > Subject: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" > diameter) > > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > > > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Sphere-TANK-24-diameter-/361288875529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 6 09:22:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 09:22:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] IVC Sportsub For Sale Message-ID: <554A1598.2010000@psubs.org> Doug Suhr is selling his web ambient IVC SportSub II. You can find it on the website at WWW.PSUBS.ORG -> Sales & Consignments -> For Sale By Owner -> IVC SportSub II From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 6 11:04:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 11:04:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention ISR Registration Deadline! Message-ID: All, a quick reminder. If you are attending the 2015 Psub Convention there is a *hard* *deadline* for the Carderock Naval Facility/International Submarine Race registration. Not 100% sure if you are going? Register anyway and I can remove you if needed. To register to visit the International Submarine Races and Naval Surface Warfare Center visit (6/25) as part of the 2015 Psub Convention please complete the following action items. Please note: *NSWC Carderock Registration deadline: 19 May 2015 at 5 PM* Complete the on-line registration, print, complete and mail forms 5.2 (Liability Release) and 5.5 (NSWCCD Visit Request) Visit site: www.onlineregistrationcenter.com/ISR13 Links to the forms can be found approxiamtely half way down the page. Mail all completed forms (with signatures) to: Mike Tucker ISR 13 P. O. Box 1937 Leonardtown, MD 20650 *Completed Forms are due: 19 May 2015 * At the bottom third of the page there is the on-line registration section. Please complete and submit. For the following field use these entries: Registration Type: ISR Guest Team Name/Sub Name: Does not apply Team on Site POC: N/A Notes: Disregard the lodging section of the page. Psubs will be using a different process to be determined. There is good information regarding security/ID requirements and area airports. Please contact Steve McQueen regarding any questions or issues with this process (317) 847-0380, psub101 at indy.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 6 11:11:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 09:11:37 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link In-Reply-To: <1430867502.97681.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1430867502.97681.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Floating is a good idea, but if you're towing a buoy anyway, that could be used to keep a neutral or negatively buoyant umbilical under tension and out of the way. In any case, you need to remain concerned about the power lost to dragging that umbilical through the water - it is not insignificant. I would want to avoid increasing its drag if you find you have an appropriate amount of power available currently. There are two ways to tackle the problem: acoustic transmission (ultrasonic modem) or electrical / optical data transmission through a dedicated umbilical. The former has the advantage of independence, but if you're towing a buoy anyway, perhaps you could add transmission to your current setup without drastically increasing drag. Your budget will have an effect here. If I were to go all out I'd look at designing a buoy with integrated GPS, radio antennas, cell or what have you, and multiplex all of those signals down an armoured optical fiber to the sub. Your requirements are probably more modest... Perhaps you could simply add a watchdog / deadman conductor to your existing cable, such that a break in the circuit prompts some action on the buoy? Sean On May 5, 2015 5:11:42 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >Sean, >I am using a 1/4 inch nylon rope and it is quite buoyant. A coax would >not be buoyant or is it? The line should be as buoyant as the rope to >help avoid entanglement, mind you I have it rigged to be jettisoning. >Hank -------------------------------------------- >On Tue, 5/5/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link >To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:06 PM > > Hank, if that's the case you could run a > dedicated data cable to your buoy, or even run a cell > booster with coax up to the buoy.? What diameter is the > line you're currently using?? Another option is optical > fiber, but then you have additional hardware cost on both > ends. > Sean > > > On May 5, 2015 4:57:02 PM > MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi > Lasse, > Thank you for the link. > Unfortunately they recommend a cable no longer than 50m. > Most of my dive time will be between 400 and 500 feet. The > cable would work fine because I tow a float the same way > with buoyant nylon rope. I could bypass the acoustic radio > altogether. > Hank > On Tue, 5/5/15, Lasse Schmidt via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > cell phone link > To: "Personal > Submersibles General Discussion" > > > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 6:44 PM > > I don't know if this > is > of any help, but this unit allows for GSM calls > underwater. I use their hydrophone in my sub > and it works > great. > > http://www.oceanreefgroup.com/products/comms/products_alphauwcp.html > > Cheers L! > asse > > Lasse Schmidt > Upplevelseakuten AB > > Skeppsbron > 21, Tullhus 1 > > 11130 Stockholm > Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 > 10 > Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 > > 5 > maj 2015 kl. 23:38 skrev hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > : > > Hi all, > I am curious if anyone knows a way that I > can activate a cell phone from my > submarine through my > acoustic radio.? I > would have my acoustic radio mounted on > my > float (safety buoy)? Since I dive alone I always tow a > safety buoy with a diver flag.? It would add > a level of > safety if I could call for help > through my cell or a > satellite radio. > Hank? > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -- > > Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my > brevity. > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 6 15:15:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 12:15:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1430939742.32715.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sean, So far the tow line (nylon rope) does not seem to bother anything, If I went with a hard line (ambilical) I could use that to replace the tow line. I am going to talk to our local cell phone nerds and see what they come up with. They are amazing! The cell would have the gps, so that is good. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 11:11 AM Floating is a good idea, but if you're towing a buoy anyway, that could be used to keep a neutral or negatively buoyant umbilical under tension and out of the way. In any case, you need to remain concerned about the power lost to dragging that umbilical through the water - it is not insignificant. I would want to avoid increasing its drag if you find you have an appropriate amount of power available currently. There are two ways to tackle the problem: acoustic transmission (ultrasonic modem) or electrical / optical data transmission through a dedicated umbilical. The former has the advantage of independence, but if you're towing a buoy anyway, perhaps you could add transmission to your current setup without drastically increasing drag. Your budget will have an effect here. If I were to go all out I'd look at designing a buoy with integrated GPS, radio antennas, cell or what have you, and multiplex all of those signals down an armoured optical fiber to the sub. Your requirements are probably more modest... Perhaps you could simply add a watchdog / deadman conductor to your existing cable, such that a break in the circuit prompts some action on the buoy? Sean On May 5, 2015 5:11:42 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, I am using a 1/4 inch nylon rope and it is quite buoyant. A coax would not be buoyant or is it? The line should be as buoyant as the rope to help avoid entanglement, mind you I have it rigged to be jettisoning. Hank On Tue, 5/5/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:06 PM Hank, if that's the case you could run a dedicated data cable to your buoy, or even run a cell booster with coax up to the buoy.? What diameter is the line you're currently using?? Another option is optical fiber, but then you have additional hardware cost on both ends. Sean On May 5, 2015 4:57:02 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submers! ibles wrote: Hi Lasse, Thank you for the link. Unfortunately they recommend a cable no longer than 50m. Most of my dive time will be between 400 and 500 feet. The cable would work fine because I tow a float the same way with buoyant nylon rope. I could bypass the acoustic radio altogether. Hank On Tue, 5/5/15, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 6:44 PM I don't know if this is of any help, but this unit allows for GSM calls underwater. I use their hydrophone in my sub and it works great. http://www.oceanreefgroup.com/products/comms/products_alphauwcp.html Cheers L! asse Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten AB Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 5 maj 2015 kl. 23:38 skrev hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : Hi all, I am curious if anyone knows a way that I can activate a cell phone from my submarine through my acoustic radio.? I would have my acoustic radio mounted on my float (safety buoy)? Since I dive alone I always tow a safety buoy with a diver flag.? It would add a level of safety if I could call for help through my cell or a satellite radio. Hank? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 6 18:58:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 15:58:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1430953094.94746.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Sean, Turns out Android 3 has an app that allows the user to turn it on remotely called remote turn on. I assume one can voice command the same phone, then I need to make the mic on my acoustic radio operate hands free and I am away. This could work Hank -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/6/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 11:11 AM Floating is a good idea, but if you're towing a buoy anyway, that could be used to keep a neutral or negatively buoyant umbilical under tension and out of the way. In any case, you need to remain concerned about the power lost to dragging that umbilical through the water - it is not insignificant. I would want to avoid increasing its drag if you find you have an appropriate amount of power available currently. There are two ways to tackle the problem: acoustic transmission (ultrasonic modem) or electrical / optical data transmission through a dedicated umbilical. The former has the advantage of independence, but if you're towing a buoy anyway, perhaps you could add transmission to your current setup without drastically increasing drag. Your budget will have an effect here. If I were to go all out I'd look at designing a buoy with integrated GPS, radio antennas, cell or what have you, and multiplex all of those signals down an armoured optical fiber to the sub. Your requirements are probably more modest... Perhaps you could simply add a watchdog / deadman conductor to your existing cable, such that a break in the circuit prompts some action on the buoy? Sean On May 5, 2015 5:11:42 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Sean, I am using a 1/4 inch nylon rope and it is quite buoyant. A coax would not be buoyant or is it? The line should be as buoyant as the rope to help avoid entanglement, mind you I have it rigged to be jettisoning. Hank On Tue, 5/5/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:06 PM Hank, if that's the case you could run a dedicated data cable to your buoy, or even run a cell booster with coax up to the buoy.? What diameter is the line you're currently using?? Another option is optical fiber, but then you have additional hardware cost on both ends. Sean On May 5, 2015 4:57:02 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submers! ibles wrote: Hi Lasse, Thank you for the link. Unfortunately they recommend a cable no longer than 50m. Most of my dive time will be between 400 and 500 feet. The cable would work fine because I tow a float the same way with buoyant nylon rope. I could bypass the acoustic radio altogether. Hank On Tue, 5/5/15, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 6:44 PM I don't know if this is of any help, but this unit allows for GSM calls underwater. I use their hydrophone in my sub and it works great. http://www.oceanreefgroup.com/products/comms/products_alphauwcp.html Cheers L! asse Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten AB Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 5 maj 2015 kl. 23:38 skrev hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : Hi all, I am curious if anyone knows a way that I can activate a cell phone from my submarine through my acoustic radio.? I would have my acoustic radio mounted on my float (safety buoy)? Since I dive alone I always tow a safety buoy with a diver flag.? It would add a level of safety if I could call for help through my cell or a satellite radio. Hank? ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 09:21:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 06:21:52 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Message-ID: <20150507062152.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0c95fa914c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 09:23:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 06:23:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Message-ID: <20150507062300.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0dd3b9af6f.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 09:31:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 14:31:28 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) In-Reply-To: <20150507062152.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0c95fa914c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150507062152.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0c95fa914c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Scott. I think its a great idea and i'm super jealous. I'd like to be able to have another crack at another K boat, and fix all the issues. Its such a shame you spend all that time building a boat and when its done, wish you'd done it different. Still its a learning curve. I was tempted to look into getting your new one myself, but there's the logistical problem of getting it over here, plus I do have one already! Will be interesting to see what you come up with. Kind Regards James On 7 May 2015 at 14:21, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I got some pretty awesome plans for this K-350. I am taking all I learned > building the first one, and fixing all the known problems from that > project. Should be fun. It is also something to keep me occupied till I get > all my research done for the deep diver. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" > diameter) > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Wed, May 06, 2015 5:30 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Hey Scott. You've got 2x K350's now. You could attach them together like > a 2 man deep worker! > > On 6 May 2015 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> >> Scott, >> Well done, you better order that lime green paint soon. >> Hank-------------------------------------------- >> On Tue, 5/5/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" >> diameter) >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 11:35 PM >> >> That is >> really cool. Might be worth buying and hanging on to! I just >> picked up the submarine from Dean. Will be back in Kansas >> tomarrow to unload. Thanks,Scott >> Waters >> >> Sent >> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Date:05/05/2015 6:36 PM (GMT-06:00) >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Cc: >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere >> TANK (24" diameter) >> >> Scott, >> If you need a buoyancy sphere for your deep diver sub, check >> this out on ebay. It is a 24 in dia titanium sphere >> with crazy high ratings. >> Hank >> >> --- On Tue, 5/5/15, hank pronk >> wrote: >> >> > From: hank pronk >> > Subject: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" >> diameter) >> > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> >> > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:26 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Sphere-TANK-24-diameter-/361288875529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 10:53:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 07:53:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Message-ID: <20150507075336.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c7c7ed27fa.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 11:33:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 11:33:58 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) In-Reply-To: References: <20150507062152.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0c95fa914c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Done? James, these boats are never done. I've never been diving in the same sub twice. :) Alec On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 9:31 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Scott. I think its a great idea and i'm super jealous. I'd like to be > able to have another crack at another K boat, and fix all the issues. Its > such a shame you spend all that time building a boat and when its done, > wish you'd done it different. Still its a learning curve. > > I was tempted to look into getting your new one myself, but there's the > logistical problem of getting it over here, plus I do have one already! > > Will be interesting to see what you come up with. > Kind Regards > James > > > > On 7 May 2015 at 14:21, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I got some pretty awesome plans for this K-350. I am taking all I learned >> building the first one, and fixing all the known problems from that >> project. Should be fun. It is also something to keep me occupied till I get >> all my research done for the deep diver. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" >> diameter) >> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Date: Wed, May 06, 2015 5:30 am >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Hey Scott. You've got 2x K350's now. You could attach them together >> like a 2 man deep worker! >> >> On 6 May 2015 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> Scott, >>> Well done, you better order that lime green paint soon. >>> Hank-------------------------------------------- >>> On Tue, 5/5/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" >>> diameter) >>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 11:35 PM >>> >>> That is >>> really cool. Might be worth buying and hanging on to! I just >>> picked up the submarine from Dean. Will be back in Kansas >>> tomarrow to unload. Thanks,Scott >>> Waters >>> >>> Sent >>> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> Date:05/05/2015 6:36 PM (GMT-06:00) >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Cc: >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere >>> TANK (24" diameter) >>> >>> Scott, >>> If you need a buoyancy sphere for your deep diver sub, check >>> this out on ebay. It is a 24 in dia titanium sphere >>> with crazy high ratings. >>> Hank >>> >>> --- On Tue, 5/5/15, hank pronk >>> wrote: >>> >>> > From: hank pronk >>> > Subject: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" >>> diameter) >>> > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >>> >>> > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:26 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Sphere-TANK-24-diameter-/361288875529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 11:45:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 16:45:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) In-Reply-To: <20150507075336.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c7c7ed27fa.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150507075336.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c7c7ed27fa.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Very true Alec. But, in seriousness, there are some things that I think could be changed on the K350 stock plans that would really help future builders. Or at least they should be made aware. A lot of things are of course personal preference (how you do electrical penetrators for example) but I can think of 3 almost essentials. Hatch. Needs to be like Gamma or similar. Hatch hinge bracket needs beefing up. Main vents are too small. But I suppose if the plans were changed, they wouldn't be a certified design anymore. Oh well, just thinking. On 7 May 2015 at 15:53, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I think it is a wonderful thing to build a sub and critique what you would > do differently, though I can see the frustration. It's even better yet if > you can do a second build to improve or rebuild the first to improve. This > is a awesome opportunity that will help me to make my deep diver even > better yet from learning from a second build of the same type! I'll keep > everyone posted of the progress. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" > diameter) > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Thu, May 07, 2015 6:31 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Scott. I think its a great idea and i'm super jealous. I'd like to be > able to have another crack at another K boat, and fix all the issues. Its > such a shame you spend all that time building a boat and when its done, > wish you'd done it different. Still its a learning curve. > > I was tempted to look into getting your new one myself, but there's the > logistical problem of getting it over here, plus I do have one already! > > Will be interesting to see what you come up with. > Kind Regards > James > > > > On 7 May 2015 at 14:21, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I got some pretty awesome plans for this K-350. I am taking all I >> learned building the first one, and fixing all the known problems from that >> project. Should be fun. It is also something to keep me occupied till I get >> all my research done for the deep diver. >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" >> diameter) >> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Date: Wed, May 06, 2015 5:30 am >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> Hey Scott. You've got 2x K350's now. You could attach them together >> like a 2 man deep worker! >> >> On 6 May 2015 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> Scott, >>> Well done, you better order that lime green paint soon. >>> Hank-------------------------------------------- >>> On Tue, 5/5/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" >>> diameter) >>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 11:35 PM >>> >>> That is >>> really cool. Might be worth buying and hanging on to! I just >>> picked up the submarine from Dean. Will be back in Kansas >>> tomarrow to unload. Thanks,Scott >>> Waters >>> >>> Sent >>> from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> Date:05/05/2015 6:36 PM (GMT-06:00) >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Cc: >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere >>> TANK (24" diameter) >>> >>> Scott, >>> If you need a buoyancy sphere for your deep diver sub, check >>> this out on ebay. It is a 24 in dia titanium sphere >>> with crazy high ratings. >>> Hank >>> >>> --- On Tue, 5/5/15, hank pronk >>> wrote: >>> >>> > From: hank pronk >>> > Subject: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" >>> diameter) >>> > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >>> >>> > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:26 PM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Sphere-TANK-24-diameter-/361288875529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 12:33:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 09:33:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Message-ID: <20150507093322.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.8dcf454680.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 13:27:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jim Rudholm via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 10:27:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) In-Reply-To: <20150507093322.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.8dcf454680.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150507093322.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.8dcf454680.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: I got the same. JimR On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 9:33 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Could someone double check my math? > > Volume of the 2 foot sphere = 4.19 cubic feet > > Buoyancy in Salt water = 4.19 x 64 = 268 lbs > > subtract the weight of the sphere = 268-54.8 = 213 lbs positive buoyancy > > It this correct? > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" > diameter) > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Tue, May 05, 2015 4:36 pm > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Scott, > If you need a buoyancy sphere for your deep diver sub, check this out on > ebay. It is a 24 in dia titanium sphere with crazy high ratings. > Hank > > --- On Tue, 5/5/15, hank pronk wrote: > > > From: hank pronk > > Subject: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) > > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 7:26 PM > > > > > > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Sphere-TANK-24-diameter-/361288875529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 14:06:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 11:06:15 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24" diameter) Message-ID: <20150507110615.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.48a7f077be.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 15:12:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 13:12:37 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator Message-ID: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> STS SubDesigner (attached) has been updated to version 0.85a, adding the capability to calculate hemispherical and 2:1 elliptical heads in addition to spherical shells. Jon - please update the PSubs link with the attached version. As with the previous file, the run-time engine needs to be installed before you can run this. Follow the link on the PSubs website to download it. Sean -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: STS_SubDesigner_085a.zip Type: application/zip Size: 409324 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 15:32:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 12:32:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gamma ballast tanks Message-ID: <1431027125.11647.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, I just posted a picture of Gamma with the new unpainted ballast tanks. The tanks cost 130 dollars each inc shipping. If I had a K350, this is what I would do. Your new sub has 3 front ports, so it is a perfect fit. I would confirm the dimension of that sphere because they say the actual volume in cubic inches and that works out to 139.85 net lbs in fresh water but at 24 in it is 205.72 net lbs in fresh water. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 17:38:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 15:38:12 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator In-Reply-To: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> References: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> Message-ID: I should clarify: the runtime engine only needs to be installed once. You don't need to reinstall with each application update. Sean On May 7, 2015 1:12:37 PM MDT, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >STS SubDesigner (attached) has been updated to version 0.85a, adding >the >capability to calculate hemispherical and 2:1 elliptical heads in >addition to spherical shells. > >Jon - please update the PSubs link with the attached version. > >As with the previous file, the run-time engine needs to be installed >before you can run this. Follow the link on the PSubs website to >download it. > >Sean > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 18:36:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 22:36:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator In-Reply-To: References: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> Message-ID: <2098108823.2868395.1431038184374.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for all that work Sean, much appreciated.Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 8, 2015 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator I should clarify: the runtime engine only needs to be installed once.? You don't need to reinstall with each application update.Sean On May 7, 2015 1:12:37 PM MDT, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: STS SubDesigner (attached) has been updated to version 0.85a, adding the capability to calculate hemispherical and 2:1 elliptical heads in addition to spherical shells. Jon - please update the PSubs link with the attached version. As with the previous file, the run-time engine needs to be installed before you can run this. Follow the link on the PSubs website to download it. Sean Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 7 18:54:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 16:54:11 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator In-Reply-To: <2098108823.2868395.1431038184374.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> <2098108823.2868395.1431038184374.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Feedback is always appreciated. Sean On May 7, 2015 4:36:24 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Thanks for all that work Sean, much appreciated.Alan >From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2015 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator > >I should clarify: the runtime engine only needs to be installed once.? >You don't need to reinstall with each application update.Sean > > > > >On May 7, 2015 1:12:37 PM MDT, "Sean T. Stevenson via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >STS SubDesigner (attached) has been updated to version 0.85a, adding >the >capability to calculate hemispherical and 2:1 elliptical heads in >addition to spherical shells. > >Jon - please update the PSubs link with the attached version. > >As with the previous file, the run-time engine needs to be installed >before you can run this. Follow the link on the PSubs website to >download it. > >Sean > > > > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >-- >Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 01:31:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 23:31:35 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24"diameter) In-Reply-To: <20150507110615.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.48a7f077be.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150507110615.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.48a7f077be.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <554C4A37.305@telus.net> Assuming that the quoted diameter is correct, and that there exists a slight discrepancy from the quoted weight (which could be the fitting shown in the EBay photographs), I get a wall thickness of about 3/16", and a 1500' operating depth for that sphere: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gbgcaheg.png Type: image/png Size: 85317 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 07:42:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 04:42:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24"diameter) In-Reply-To: <554C4A37.305@telus.net> Message-ID: <1431085334.8441.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I assumed that since the sphere has a high pressure rating and would just be used for buoyancy, it could be used under pressure. Of coarse there would be a small loss of buoyancy, but it would go much deeper. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/8/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24"diameter) To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 8, 2015, 1:31 AM Assuming that the quoted diameter is correct, and that there exists a slight discrepancy from the quoted weight (which could be the fitting shown in the EBay photographs), I get a wall thickness of about 3/16", and a 1500' operating depth for that sphere: -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 08:11:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 05:11:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] titanium sphere Message-ID: <1431087100.96233.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> This sphere has some real potential. The sphere could double as a HP air holding tank, as well as a buoyancy tank. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 09:04:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 06:04:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24"diameter) Message-ID: <20150508060404.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.43586675f1.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 09:06:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 06:06:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: New listing Titanium Sphere TANK (24"diameter) Message-ID: <20150508060635.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.15ea568852.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gbgcaheg.png Type: image/png Size: 85317 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 10:25:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 10:25:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] titanium sphere In-Reply-To: <1431087100.96233.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431087100.96233.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <554CC747.6010706@psubs.org> and you could significantly increase the depth rating of the sphere by maintaining internal pressure On 5/8/2015 8:11 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > This sphere has some real potential. The sphere could double as a HP air holding tank, as well as a buoyancy tank. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 10:34:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 10:34:35 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator In-Reply-To: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> References: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> Message-ID: <554CC97B.4090807@psubs.org> Added the new software version and included a reference to the version number so we all know which version is the latest. Make sure you refresh the page to pick up the new link. On 5/7/2015 3:12 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > STS SubDesigner (attached) has been updated to version 0.85a, adding the > capability to calculate hemispherical and 2:1 elliptical heads in > addition to spherical shells. > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 10:42:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 10:42:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator In-Reply-To: <554CC97B.4090807@psubs.org> References: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> <554CC97B.4090807@psubs.org> Message-ID: <554CCB3B.1050704@psubs.org> Sean, great tool. A couple of enhancement requests for the future. 1) Drop down list for material type instead of clicking through the list 2) Change between metric and imperial numbers without having to recalculate and enter numbers again 3) Allow manual entering of material properties for non-standard materials. One example, I'd be interested in using this to calculate limits for PVC and ABS housings (lights, sensors, etc) From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 10:49:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 08:49:28 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator In-Reply-To: <554CCB3B.1050704@psubs.org> References: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> <554CC97B.4090807@psubs.org> <554CCB3B.1050704@psubs.org> Message-ID: <554CCCF8.5080208@telus.net> 1) I think that if you click in the material text area instead of the increment / decrement buttons, you do get a drop-down list. If not, I can change this. 2) Shouldn't be too hard to implement - I'll look into this. 3) Also on the to-do list. Sean On 2015-05-08 08:42, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sean, great tool. A couple of enhancement requests for the future. > > 1) Drop down list for material type instead of clicking through the list > > 2) Change between metric and imperial numbers without having to > recalculate and enter numbers again > > 3) Allow manual entering of material properties for non-standard > materials. One example, I'd be interested in using this to calculate > limits for PVC and ABS housings (lights, sensors, etc) > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 11:37:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 11:37:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS SubDesigner shell / head calculator In-Reply-To: <554CCCF8.5080208@telus.net> References: <554BB925.6040905@telus.net> <554CC97B.4090807@psubs.org> <554CCB3B.1050704@psubs.org> <554CCCF8.5080208@telus.net> Message-ID: <554CD848.4020402@psubs.org> Reference #1, you are correct. Works great. Jon On 5/8/2015 10:49 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > 1) I think that if you click in the material text area instead of the > increment / decrement buttons, you do get a drop-down list. If not, I > can change this. > > 2) Shouldn't be too hard to implement - I'll look into this. > > 3) Also on the to-do list. > > Sean > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 16:18:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 13:18:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20150508131802.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.573767e279.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 16:39:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 16:39:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20150508131802.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.573767e279.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150508131802.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.573767e279.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Scott, I used Loctite spray, product number LOC1713065. Lots and lots of it. Case-loads. Best, Alec On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:18 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > > Maybe a dumb question, but what kind of glue did you glue the foam with? > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Mon, May 04, 2015 8:33 am > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > Hi Scott, > > Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four > rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off > rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam > plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: > > - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam > from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections > with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about > a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue > them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would > be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with > what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably > take quite a lot of it. > > - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you > have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything > is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final > product, in this order: > 1) A plain old wood saw > 2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted > depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it > for 99% of the job. See > http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade > 3) Sand paper > > I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put > the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking > measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but > close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. > > - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is > to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you > run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. > > - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all > in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main > considerations then, cloth and resin. > > I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, > because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new > stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but > this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly > good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would > drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on > the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much > heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same > goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves > its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make > the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be > banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I > probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum > bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to > avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I > get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next > layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This > material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and > once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea > is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I > hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be > quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer > should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand > imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. > > This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone > will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 > per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up > perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of > cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. > > - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used > West Marine's #410 fairing filler ( > http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). > You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. > > - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam > dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand > foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. > > > Best, > > Alec > > On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, >> >> I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your >> saddle tanks? >> >> *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use >> *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry >> *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently >> >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 17:02:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan Hryhorcoff via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 17:02:46 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: References: <20150508131802.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.573767e279.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Spray foam insulation works well also. ?Great Stuff? in one trade name. Lowe?s / Home Depot etc. Don?t use construction adhesive in the calking tubes. It takes to long to cure since the foam board won?t let enough air get to it. If your making something that you can manually remove the mold, Urethane foam board works well. Polyester resin won?t attack Urethane like it does Styrofoam. I?ve only been able to find it with foil sides, but it?s not hard to peel the foil off. Dan H. From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 4:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Hi Scott, I used Loctite spray, product number LOC1713065. Lots and lots of it. Case-loads. Best, Alec On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:18 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, Maybe a dumb question, but what kind of glue did you glue the foam with? Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, May 04, 2015 8:33 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order: 1) A plain old wood saw 2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade 3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 17:04:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 14:04:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20150508140448.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e2aaf720bd.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 17:07:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 14:07:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <20150508140727.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.ead43e6821.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 17:10:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Eriksen?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 23:10:03 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell Message-ID: Hi all, When you cut out the hole for the conningtower, is distortion of the shell an issue? My shell is 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked the tower in place. Thanks Andr? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 19:05:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 16:05:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell Message-ID: <20150508160504.C488F40A@m0005298.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 8 21:49:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 18:49:11 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: <20150508160504.C488F40A@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1431136151.62677.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Andre I would defiantly place the two rings in and I would put them exactly where they go and tack them. There is a good chance that the opening will create a weak spot so to speak and the shell will bend up at the center of the hole. Brian is right if it is a sphere, no worries. The cylinder can go egg shape. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 8, 2015, 7:05 PM That's 1/2"? if it's A516 70 grade it should be no problem,? ?My Sphere thickness is 3/8" and I could not detect any distortion. ?Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 23:10:03 +0200 Hi all, When you cut out the hole for the conningtower, is distortion of the shell an issue? My shell is 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked the tower in place. ThanksAndr? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 09:55:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Eriksen?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 15:55:19 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: <1431136151.62677.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <20150508160504.C488F40A@m0005298.ppops.net> <1431136151.62677.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the input guys. Mine is a cylinder. Problem is the rings are placed similar like the k-boats. If I place them at the excact place I would cut into them. And I can`t finish the weld on the tower-insert with the rings in place. So maybe I can tack them in a little bit offset, cut the hole, tack in the tower-insert, remove the rings, finish welding the tower insert, then weld in the rings. Does this sound like a good procedure? Thanks, Andr? 2015-05-09 3:49 GMT+02:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > Andre > I would defiantly place the two rings in and I would put them exactly > where they go and tack them. There is a good chance that the opening will > create a weak spot so to speak and the shell will bend up at the center of > the hole. Brian is right if it is a sphere, no worries. The cylinder can > go egg shape. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 5/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Friday, May 8, 2015, 7:05 PM > > That's 1/2" if > it's A516 70 grade it should be no problem, > My Sphere thickness is 3/8" and > I could not detect any distortion. > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Andr? Eriksen via > Personal_Submersibles > > To: > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when > cutting in shell > Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 > 23:10:03 +0200 > > Hi all, > When you cut out the hole for the > conningtower, is distortion of the shell an > issue? > My shell is > 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a > reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not > welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked the > tower in place. > > > ThanksAndr? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Med Vennlig Hilsen / Regards *Andr? Eriksen* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 10:24:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dan Hryhorcoff via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 10:24:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass In-Reply-To: <20150508140727.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.ead43e6821.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150508140727.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.ead43e6821.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Scott I guess you'd be the ?etc.? To be truthful, I get mine at our local True Value also. From: via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 5:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Good thing I have Waters True Value :) Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass From: Dan Hryhorcoff via Personal_Submersibles Date: Fri, May 08, 2015 2:02 pm To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Spray foam insulation works well also. ?Great Stuff? in one trade name. Lowe?s / Home Depot etc. Don?t use construction adhesive in the calking tubes. It takes to long to cure since the foam board won?t let enough air get to it. If your making something that you can manually remove the mold, Urethane foam board works well. Polyester resin won?t attack Urethane like it does Styrofoam. I?ve only been able to find it with foil sides, but it?s not hard to peel the foil off. Dan H. From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 4:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Hi Scott, I used Loctite spray, product number LOC1713065. Lots and lots of it. Case-loads. Best, Alec On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:18 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, Maybe a dumb question, but what kind of glue did you glue the foam with? Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, May 04, 2015 8:33 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order: 1) A plain old wood saw 2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade 3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-winkingsmile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1135 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 10:40:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 07:40:23 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1431182423.73867.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Andre, I don't know what type of ring you are using, I assume a T ring. I would think if the T ring is under load it could tip and loose shape. That is why I suggested to tack them in place. I can see that is a problem for you. You idea sounds good to me, maybe four good tacks in spots that are easy to grind off. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/9/15, Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 9:55 AM Thanks for the input guys.Mine is a cylinder.? Problem is the rings are placed similar like the k-boats. If I place them at the excact place I would cut into them. And I can`t finish the weld on the tower-insert with the rings in place.So maybe I can tack them in a little bit offset, cut the hole, tack in the tower-insert, remove the rings, finish welding the tower insert, then weld in the rings.Does this sound like a good procedure? Thanks,Andr? 2015-05-09 3:49 GMT+02:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : Andre I would defiantly place the two rings in and I would put them exactly where they go and tack them.? There is a good chance that the opening will create a weak spot so to speak and the shell will bend up at the center of the hole.? Brian is right if it is a sphere, no worries.? The cylinder can go egg shape. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Friday, May 8, 2015, 7:05 PM ?That's 1/2"? if ?it's A516 70 grade it should be no problem,? ??My Sphere thickness is 3/8" and ?I could not detect any distortion. ??Brian ?--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: ?From: Andr? Eriksen via ?Personal_Submersibles ? ?To: ?Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ?Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when ?cutting in shell ?Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 ?23:10:03 +0200 ?Hi all, ?When you cut out the hole for the ?conningtower, is distortion of the shell an ?issue? ?My shell is ?12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a ?reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not ?welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked the ?tower in place. ?ThanksAndr? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Med Vennlig Hilsen / RegardsAndr? Eriksen -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 11:39:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 09 May 2015 10:39:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Message-ID: <1tpnjuwcmxdmxe19v78o1wju.1431185940237@email.android.com> Yay! Thanks for shopping local Dan! Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dan Hryhorcoff via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/09/2015 9:24 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Scott I guess you'd be the ?etc.? To be truthful, I get mine at our local True Value also. From: via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 5:07 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Good thing I have Waters True Value :) Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass From: Dan Hryhorcoff via Personal_Submersibles Date: Fri, May 08, 2015 2:02 pm To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Spray foam insulation works well also. ?Great Stuff? in one trade name. Lowe?s / Home Depot etc. Don?t use construction adhesive in the calking tubes. It takes to long to cure since the foam board won?t let enough air get to it. If your making something that you can manually remove the mold, Urethane foam board works well. Polyester resin won?t attack Urethane like it does Styrofoam. I?ve only been able to find it with foil sides, but it?s not hard to peel the foil off. Dan H. From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 4:39 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass Hi Scott, I used Loctite spray, product number LOC1713065. Lots and lots of it. Case-loads. Best, Alec On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:18 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, Maybe a dumb question, but what kind of glue did you glue the foam with? Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, May 04, 2015 8:33 am To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Hi Scott, Coincidentally your timing is really good, because I just finished four rather complex-shaped MBTs for the new sub. Since my sub is a one-off rather than a series production item, I used the method of glassing foam plugs that are then dissolved, rather than making molds. To summarize: - The plugs are a sandwich of many layers of pink home insulation foam from HomeDepot. When I did Snoopy's saddle tanks I cut out the sections with a hot wire, but this time I realized my jig saw does the job in about a tenth the time. Step one is to cut a whole bunch of sections and glue them together. If I weren't so tight-fisted, the ideal solution here would be to mill a single block of foam using CNC equipment, but I get by with what I have on hand if it'll save money - and a milling job would probably take quite a lot of it. - The glued sections are only a rough draft of the final form. Next you have to shape them until the steps between sections are gone and everything is nice and smooth. I use three tools to go from the draft to the final product, in this order: 1) A plain old wood saw 2) A Stanley Surform shaver, with flat and or rounded blade fitted depending on the surface. This thing is absolutely essential and I use it for 99% of the job. See http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SURFORM+TOOLS+AND+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=21-296&SDesc=Surform%26%23174%3B+Plane+Type+%96+Regular+Cut+Blade 3) Sand paper I'm afraid I have no scientific answer to ensuring symmetry. I just put the plugs side by side and do a bunch walking in circles, taking measurements, and using a level. The plugs won't come out identical, but close enough to be functional. This part is more sculpture than science. - Next, paint the plugs with several coats of water-based paint. This is to prevent the resin from dissolving them. Water-based because if not you run the risk of the paint dissolving the foam. - Now apply layer after layer of wetted fiberglass cloth. I don't mean all in one sitting, I mean iteratively for about a month. There are two main considerations then, cloth and resin. I can't give you a specific recipe for cloth or the cost for cloth, because I used a combination of material I already had on hand and new stuff. I have purchased from http://www.fibreglast.com in the past, but this time found lower prices on eBay for what turned out to be perfectly good material. Mostly I used 6.5 oz (quite light) cloth so that it would drape better, but that depends on the shape of your tanks. For instance, on the inside face that goes against the hull, you can get away with much heavier material since its a gentle curve in just one plane, and the same goes for any flat surfaces. But if you have compound curves or tight curves its way more challenging to drape cloth without forming air bubbles. I make the walls that go against the hull thinner, since they aren't going to be banging against things like the outer or upper faces will. On average I probably put down ten to fifteen layers of cloth. The pros use vacuum bagging to prevent bubbles. With my caveman fiberglass skills I just try to avoid them in the first place by selecting better-draping cloth, and when I get a bubble I remove it with a flap wheel before putting down the next layer. In the middle of my layup I put down several layers of Kevlar. This material is trickier to work with than fiberglass, it can't be sanded and once cured you can only really go through it with carbide tools. The idea is to increase survivability by making the MBTs puncture resistant. If I hit a rock or a dock I still expect the resin might crack, but it should be quite hard to put a hole in the Kevlar. You might think this hard layer should go on the outside, but I put it mid-schedule so I could sand imperfections out of the fiberglass layers above it. This job (new sub, not Snoopy's tanks) took ten gallons of resin. Everyone will tell you epoxy is stronger than polyester resin. However, epoxy is $76 per gallon vs. $34 for polyester, and Snoopy's polyester tanks have held up perfectly well for years. So, for me, this is a case of cheaper-is-sufficient and I went with polyester. - Iteratively sand and fix imperfections with a fairing compound. I used West Marine's #410 fairing filler (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-system---410-microlight-filler--P004_120_004_016). You can do this with Bondo as well, but #410 is easier to sand. - Dissolve the plugs. When I made Snoopy's saddle tanks the pink foam dissolved instantly with gasoline. This time, despite being the same brand foam it was somehow gasoline resistant, but acetone did the job. Best, Alec On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:22 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I was curious if you could go into details about the making of your saddle tanks? *Where did you get the foam and fiberglass and what types did you use *How did you shape the foam to ensure symmetry *Was there any difficulty or anything you would do differently Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: wlEmoticon-winkingsmile[1].png Type: image/png Size: 1135 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 15:37:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 12:37:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell Message-ID: <20150509123742.C4945BEC@m0048136.ppops.net> Andre, Do you have a reinforcement pad which would be integral to the hull surrounding the area next to where the nozzle (conning tower) will be ? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 07:40:23 -0700 Andre, I don't know what type of ring you are using, I assume a T ring. I would think if the T ring is under load it could tip and loose shape. That is why I suggested to tack them in place. I can see that is a problem for you. You idea sounds good to me, maybe four good tacks in spots that are easy to grind off. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/9/15, Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 9:55 AM Thanks for the input guys.Mine is a cylinder.? Problem is the rings are placed similar like the k-boats. If I place them at the excact place I would cut into them. And I can`t finish the weld on the tower-insert with the rings in place.So maybe I can tack them in a little bit offset, cut the hole, tack in the tower-insert, remove the rings, finish welding the tower insert, then weld in the rings.Does this sound like a good procedure? Thanks,Andr? 2015-05-09 3:49 GMT+02:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : Andre I would defiantly place the two rings in and I would put them exactly where they go and tack them.? There is a good chance that the opening will create a weak spot so to speak and the shell will bend up at the center of the hole.? Brian is right if it is a sphere, no worries.? The cylinder can go egg shape. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Friday, May 8, 2015, 7:05 PM ?That's 1/2"? if ?it's A516 70 grade it should be no problem,? ??My Sphere thickness is 3/8" and ?I could not detect any distortion. ??Brian ?--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: ?From: Andr? Eriksen via ?Personal_Submersibles ? ?To: ?Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ?Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when ?cutting in shell ?Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 ?23:10:03 +0200 ?Hi all, ?When you cut out the hole for the ?conningtower, is distortion of the shell an ?issue? ?My shell is ?12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a ?reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not ?welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked the ?tower in place. ?ThanksAndr? ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?-----Inline Attachment Follows----- ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Med Vennlig Hilsen / RegardsAndr? Eriksen -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 15:56:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Eriksen?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 21:56:14 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: <20150509123742.C4945BEC@m0048136.ppops.net> References: <20150509123742.C4945BEC@m0048136.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hank, yes the rings are T-shaped. Brian, I haven`t designed any reinforcement pad. You mean like the Pilot fish? I can see that is a good way to strenghten the area. From my FEA analysis I had to beef up the thickness quite a bit in the tower reinforcement. Regards Andr? 2015-05-09 21:37 GMT+02:00 Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Andre, > Do you have a reinforcement pad which would be integral to > the hull surrounding the area next to where the nozzle (conning tower) will > be ? > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell > Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 07:40:23 -0700 > > > Andre, > I don't know what type of ring you are using, I assume a T ring. I would > think if the T ring is under load it could tip and loose shape. That is > why I suggested to tack them in place. I can see that is a problem for > you. You idea sounds good to me, maybe four good tacks in spots that are > easy to grind off. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 5/9/15, Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 9:55 AM > > Thanks for > the input guys.Mine is a cylinder. > > Problem > is the rings are placed similar like the k-boats. If I place > them at the excact place I would cut into them. And I can`t > finish the weld on the tower-insert with the rings in > place.So maybe I can tack them in a little bit > offset, cut the hole, tack in the tower-insert, remove the > rings, finish welding the tower insert, then weld in the > rings.Does this sound like a good > procedure? > Thanks,Andr? > 2015-05-09 3:49 GMT+02:00 > hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : > > > Andre > > I would defiantly place the two rings in and I would put > them exactly where they go and tack them. There is a good > chance that the opening will create a weak spot so to speak > and the shell will bend up at the center of the hole. > Brian is right if it is a sphere, no worries. The cylinder > can go egg shape. > > Hank -------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 5/8/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in > shell > > To: "Personal > Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Friday, May 8, 2015, 7:05 PM > > > > That's 1/2" if > > it's A516 70 grade it should be no problem, > > My Sphere thickness is 3/8" and > > I could not detect any distortion. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: > > > > From: Andr? Eriksen via > > Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: > > Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when > > cutting in shell > > Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 > > 23:10:03 +0200 > > > > Hi all, > > When you cut out the hole for the > > conningtower, is distortion of the shell an > > issue? > > My shell is > > 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a > > reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut > -Not > > welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked > the > > tower in place. > > > > > > ThanksAndr? > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -- > Med > Vennlig Hilsen / RegardsAndr? > Eriksen > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Med Vennlig Hilsen / Regards *Andr? Eriksen* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 16:54:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 13:54:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sand blasting Message-ID: <1431204876.31284.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, How are you liking you sand blaster? Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 22:28:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 02:28:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Home made sonar device Message-ID: <1668793297.1336912.1431224917324.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> This is a quick tutorial on how to make a sonar device that could act asa forward ?sonar for warning of upcomming obstructions.Basically it beeps if there is something in it's path, & the beeps have ashorter duration between them as the obstacle comes closer.It uses an arduino board & has the programing code, which would need to be modifyedfor a suitable range.Total cost...$40-?How To Make A Sonar Device - Tinkernut Labs | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | How To Make A Sonar Device - Tinkernut LabsStep 1 Gather The Parts Here?s what you will need: Ultrasonic Sensor ? $2.59 Arduino ? $24.95 Breadboard and Wires ? $9.69 TOTAL COST: ~$40.00 Step 2 Downlo... | | | | View on clone.tinkernut.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 9 23:24:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 03:24:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Home made sonar device In-Reply-To: <1668793297.1336912.1431224917324.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1668793297.1336912.1431224917324.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <799855606.4238273.1431228249122.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Taking a closer look at this; you would have to findanother sensor as this one only does short range.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 2:28 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Home made sonar device This is a quick tutorial on how to make a sonar device that could act asa forward ?sonar for warning of upcomming obstructions.Basically it beeps if there is something in it's path, & the beeps have ashorter duration between them as the obstacle comes closer.It uses an arduino board & has the programing code, which would need to be modifyedfor a suitable range.Total cost...$40-?How To Make A Sonar Device - Tinkernut Labs | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | How To Make A Sonar Device - Tinkernut LabsStep 1 Gather The Parts Here?s what you will need: Ultrasonic Sensor ? $2.59 Arduino ? $24.95 Breadboard and Wires ? $9.69 TOTAL COST: ~$40.00 Step 2 Downlo... | | | | View on clone.tinkernut.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 00:38:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 04:38:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward scan Message-ID: <65237486.4322030.1431232704876.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Anyone familiar with the Simrad 2D forward scan?Transducer kit price is around $700- & from what I haveread, it can run on the Simrad NSS7 evo Chartplotter / Fishfinder that sells for round $1200. ?I'm wondering whether the transducer is solid & would be OK at 500ft, or if not, could I pot the transducer? ?I have read that the sonar signal isn't impeded by solids but that air is a problem. That said I am wondering?if a tight fitting alluminium housing would be better than an epoxy potting mix.Alan http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-NZ/Products/Echosounders/ForwardScan/ ?http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|344|2028692|2028926&id=2646915http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|344|2028688|2028737&id=2445583 ?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 08:26:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 05:26:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Message-ID: <1431260785.4377.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. Hank --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: > From: hank pronk > Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM > > > > http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 10:10:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 10:10:52 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Lodging Info/Instructions Message-ID: All, the official hotel is the Best Western in Rockville, MD. We have a good rate, a generous free breakfast, nice meeting room and are close to evening entertainment. Please *register before 4PM 6/3/2015* (48 hr. cancellation policy) to get our group rate. Room rates are not guaranteed after that date. Be sure to mention our group name "Personal Submersibles- 2015" when registering. Reservation line: 1-800-366-1251 and the hotel direct is 301-424-4940. It helps if a few of us share a room (double beds) so try to enjoy the company of another psubber and drop your costs. Here are some general links: http://www.reservation-desk.com/hotel3/183978/?CID=PPC_google_B-Hotel+Chain+-+B_51710443933_best%2520western%2520rockville%2520md_e&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=best%2520western%2520rockville%2520md&utm_content=51710443933&utm_campaign=Hotel+Chain+-+B&mkwid=sNw9UeXup_dc&pcrid=51710443933&gclid=CPjaubKqt8UCFZWBaQodYq0A6A&muid=b410986f-8d0b-42db-834c-3ccc29f9bf05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzIqFu1JxlM&authuser=0 Any questions/problems contact me. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 10:35:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 09:35:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Message-ID: <8v38ty7msbcs3h431llk0vkf.1431268527736@email.android.com> Hey guys, I am needing donor material to do some repairs. What I am looking for is scrap parts cut out of the rolled section of the K-350 (either the veiw ports or section cut out for the collar and hatch). It would save me money to go this route rather than pay to have some 1/4 plate rolled to the exact pitch of a 36" round tube.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 10:41:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 07:41:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sand blasting Message-ID: <20150510074118.2B5DB619@m0005309.ppops.net> Hank, It's good, I think when I'm ready to do the entire outside that I will rent a big compressor however. They are $140 for one day. The set up I have now will blast and area of about 1 -2 square ft and then it has to build up pressure again which takes about 7 min. Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sand blasting Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 13:54:36 -0700 Brian, How are you liking you sand blaster? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 10:50:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 16:50:00 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Andr? Not such a issue wit a plasma cutter. The full penetration welds will cause more distortion. Temporery reinforfment okay. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 8 mei 2015 23:10 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell Hi all, When you cut out the hole for the conningtower, is distortion of the shell an issue? My shell is 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked the tower in place. Thanks Andr? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 13:10:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 05:10:15 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <1431260785.4377.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431260785.4377.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <106015FB-69F9-4343-A660-132DD108AF38@yahoo.com> Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 13:53:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 18:53:52 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted In-Reply-To: <8v38ty7msbcs3h431llk0vkf.1431268527736@email.android.com> References: <8v38ty7msbcs3h431llk0vkf.1431268527736@email.android.com> Message-ID: Scott, I might be able to help. Will speak tomorrow. James On Sunday, 10 May 2015, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey guys, > > I am needing donor material to do some repairs. What I am looking for is > scrap parts cut out of the rolled section of the K-350 (either the veiw > ports or section cut out for the collar and hatch). It would save me money > to go this route rather than pay to have some 1/4 plate rolled to the exact > pitch of a 36" round tube. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 14:29:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 13:29:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Message-ID: <32n4b102e1ekihg5ubn2qira.1431282569058@email.android.com> Great! Talk to you tomarrow. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/10/2015 12:53 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wanted Scott, I might be able to help. Will speak tomorrow. James On Sunday, 10 May 2015, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys, I am needing donor material to do some repairs. What I am looking for is scrap parts cut out of the rolled section of the K-350 (either the veiw ports or section cut out for the collar and hatch). It would save me money to go this route rather than pay to have some 1/4 plate rolled to the exact pitch of a 36" round tube. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 14:40:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Eriksen?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 20:40:03 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I`m using plasma. Was thinking if there were any stress in the shell after the rolling, it would tend to distort due to weakening after cutting out the hole. Regards Andr? 2015-05-10 16:50 GMT+02:00 Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Hi Andr? > > Not such a issue wit a plasma cutter. > The full penetration welds will cause more distortion. > Temporery reinforfment okay. > > Emile > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Andr? Eriksen via > Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* vrijdag 8 mei 2015 23:10 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell > > Hi all, > > When you cut out the hole for the conningtower, is distortion of the shell > an issue? > > My shell is 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a reinforcement > ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not welding them so I can remove > them after I have tacked the tower in place. > > > Thanks > Andr? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -- Med Vennlig Hilsen / Regards *Andr? Eriksen* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 17:02:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 14:02:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1431291767.51744.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Andre, It is my experience that the shell wants to unroll so to speak. This is not always true, I would play it safe and put two rings in. You will know if it was a good idea when you have the piece cut out, if the piece is flatter that means it went out of shape. Place the piece back in the hole and I bet the curve will be less. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/10/15, Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 2:40 PM I`m using plasma. Was thinking if there were any stress in the shell after the rolling, it would tend to distort due to weakening after cutting out the hole. RegardsAndr? 2015-05-10 16:50 GMT+02:00 Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles : Hi Andr? ? Not such a issue wit a plasma cutter. The full penetration welds will cause more distortion. Temporery reinforfment okay. ? Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 8 mei 2015 23:10 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell Hi all, When you cut out the hole for the conningtower, is distortion of the shell an issue? My shell is 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked the tower in place. Thanks Andr? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Med Vennlig Hilsen / RegardsAndr? Eriksen -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 17:05:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 14:05:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1431291947.85535.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Andre, When you cut the holes in your ct for the ports, the ct will go out of shape big time. Tack weld the bottom of the ct to a strong plate before you cut the holes and weld the port rings in, then you can remove the plate. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/10/15, Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 2:40 PM I`m using plasma. Was thinking if there were any stress in the shell after the rolling, it would tend to distort due to weakening after cutting out the hole. RegardsAndr? 2015-05-10 16:50 GMT+02:00 Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles : Hi Andr? ? Not such a issue wit a plasma cutter. The full penetration welds will cause more distortion. Temporery reinforfment okay. ? Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 8 mei 2015 23:10 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell Hi all, When you cut out the hole for the conningtower, is distortion of the shell an issue? My shell is 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should place a reinforcement ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not welding them so I can remove them after I have tacked the tower in place. Thanks Andr? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Med Vennlig Hilsen / RegardsAndr? Eriksen -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 17:20:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Eriksen?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 23:20:49 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell In-Reply-To: <1431291947.85535.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431291947.85535.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Thank you for your comment. I will put in two rings before cutting to be safe. Will also reinforce the conning tower before cutting. Thanks! Regards Andr? 2015-05-10 23:05 GMT+02:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > Andre, > When you cut the holes in your ct for the ports, the ct will go out of > shape big time. Tack weld the bottom of the ct to a strong plate before > you cut the holes and weld the port rings in, then you can remove the plate. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 5/10/15, Andr? Eriksen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Distortion when cutting in shell > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 2:40 PM > > I`m > using plasma. > Was > thinking if there were any stress in the shell after the > rolling, it would tend to distort due to weakening after > cutting out the hole. > RegardsAndr? > 2015-05-10 16:50 GMT+02:00 > Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > > > > > Hi Andr? > > Not such a issue wit a plasma cutter. > > The full penetration welds will cause > more > distortion. > Temporery reinforfment > okay. > > Emile > > > > Van: > Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens Andr? Eriksen via > Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: > vrijdag 8 mei 2015 > 23:10 > Aan: Personal Submersibles > General > Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] > Distortion when cutting in > shell > > > > Hi all, > > > When you cut out the hole for the conningtower, is > distortion of the shell > an issue? > > > My shell is 12mm in thickness. Wondering if I should > place a reinforcement > ring on either side of the hole to be cut -Not welding them > so I can remove them > after I have tacked the tower in place. > > > > > Thanks > Andr? > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > -- > Med > Vennlig Hilsen / RegardsAndr? > Eriksen > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Med Vennlig Hilsen / Regards *Andr? Eriksen* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 22:05:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 02:05:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reinforment Rings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <855969390.4678244.1431309943994.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I'm doing some research.?Does anyone know what were the thickness and width of the reinforcement rings?on the?Gato or Balao?class US submarines. Even an estimate would help. Thanks,Chris Christopher Cave christophercave at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 10 23:00:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 20:00:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reinforment Rings Message-ID: <20150510200031.3544D63C@m0005312.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 01:23:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 00:23:39 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT Message-ID: Does anyone know the amount of boyancy a K-350 VBT has when blown dry? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 02:39:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 02:39:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54A7EFE8-E315-42F3-931B-E46B01C7D02D@AOL.com> About 65#, I think. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2015, at 1:23 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Does anyone know the amount of boyancy a K-350 VBT has when blown dry? > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 06:12:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 11:12:24 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tank Calculator Message-ID: Hi All, Can someone please clarify something for me on the psubs 2:1 tank volume calculator. "Length of Skirt". Is this the total height, ie from the centre to the edge of the tank head? Or from the edge to the corner\knuckle radius? My tank heads are these ones. http://www.purdie.co.uk/products/2-1_semi_ellipsidal.php Many thanks James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 06:19:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 10:19:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mini Lathe Message-ID: <1039297751.4898907.1431339564366.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Anyone familiar with the Sieg C3 Mini lathe?I am looking at buying one mainly for the initial purpose of making up aluminium housingsfor the brushless motors I have been experimenting with.I want to start with a 3" diameter, 5" long rod of alluminium & bore it out in steps for the propellor shaft,seals, bearing & motor. The internal diameter will eventually be 2&1/2".Could I do this succesfully on this lathe?Thanks Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 08:14:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 05:14:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link In-Reply-To: <53091B75-9884-4B0F-87F4-22D5C5F5642E@upplevelsepresent.se> Message-ID: <1431346483.37581.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Lasse, I have been in contact with these folks about their cell phone system. They tell me it will work fine at 500 feet and it will cost 1,200 dollars US out of California. All I need to supply is a blue tooth capable cell phone. Thanks' for the lead. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 5/5/15, Lasse Schmidt via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] cell phone link To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2015, 6:44 PM I don't know if this is of any help, but this unit allows for GSM calls underwater. I use their hydrophone in my sub and it works great. http://www.oceanreefgroup.com/products/comms/products_alphauwcp.html Cheers Lasse Lasse Schmidt Upplevelseakuten AB Skeppsbron 21, Tullhus 1 11130 Stockholm Telefon v?xel: 08-660 16 10 Mobiltelefon: 070-28 32 660 > 5 maj 2015 kl. 23:38 skrev hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles : > > Hi all, > I am curious if anyone knows a way that I can activate a cell phone from my submarine through my acoustic radio.? I would have my acoustic radio mounted on my float (safety buoy)? Since I dive alone I always tow a safety buoy with a diver flag.? It would add a level of safety if I could call for help through my cell or a satellite radio. > Hank? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 09:16:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 07:16:39 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tank Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c79147d-5e88-4ed2-a1a9-4b68fa936ca9@email.android.com> Head height is the inside height of the head from the tangent (bend line). Length of skirt, or straight flange length, is the length of the cylindrical portion alone, taken again from the tangent or bend line. On May 11, 2015 4:12:24 AM MDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi All, >Can someone please clarify something for me on the psubs 2:1 tank >volume >calculator. > >"Length of Skirt". Is this the total height, ie from the centre to the >edge of the tank head? Or from the edge to the corner\knuckle radius? > >My tank heads are these ones. > >http://www.purdie.co.uk/products/2-1_semi_ellipsidal.php > >Many thanks >James > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 09:17:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 01:17:33 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mini Lathe In-Reply-To: <1039297751.4898907.1431339564366.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1039297751.4898907.1431339564366.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5550abed.036f440a.2654.61ee@mx.google.com> Alan, It is better to get a larger old good name lathe than a small new lathe of dubious quality. Rigidity is gold. If you are going to use a boring bar up the inside of 5? long hole then rigidity. How much do you want to spend? How much room do you have? Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015 10:19 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mini Lathe Anyone familiar with the Sieg C3 Mini lathe? I am looking at buying one mainly for the initial purpose of making up aluminium housings for the brushless motors I have been experimenting with. I want to start with a 3" diameter, 5" long rod of alluminium & bore it out in steps for the propellor shaft, seals, bearing & motor. The internal diameter will eventually be 2&1/2". Could I do this succesfully on this lathe? Thanks Alan __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 09:19:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 13:19:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tank Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2088219213.5082552.1431350378752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> James, No, not the total height of the tank head. ?The "skirt" is the part of the tank head that DOES NOT contribute to the elliptical geometry. ?It is spherical and an attachment point for the tank head. ?Most tank heads in the US have a two inch skirt but you can specify shorter or longer. ?See attached images...the skirt is the red in second image. Jon On Monday, May 11, 2015 6:15 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,Can someone please clarify something for me on the psubs 2:1 tank volume calculator.?"Length of Skirt".? Is this the total height, ie from the centre to the edge of the tank head?? Or from the edge to the corner\knuckle radius?? ?My tank heads are these ones.??http://www.purdie.co.uk/products/2-1_semi_ellipsidal.php?Many thanksJames _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: head1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 10603 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: head2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 11157 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 10:31:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 07:31:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mini Lathe Message-ID: <20150511073118.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.9ca8b4d5eb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 10:48:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:48:00 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Tank Calculator In-Reply-To: <2088219213.5082552.1431350378752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2088219213.5082552.1431350378752.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the clarification guys. I will check my dimensions later. On 11 May 2015 at 14:19, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > James, > > No, not the total height of the tank head. The "skirt" is the part of the > tank head that DOES NOT contribute to the elliptical geometry. It is > spherical and an attachment point for the tank head. Most tank heads in > the US have a two inch skirt but you can specify shorter or longer. See > attached images...the skirt is the red in second image. > > Jon > > > > > On Monday, May 11, 2015 6:15 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All, > Can someone please clarify something for me on the psubs 2:1 tank volume > calculator. > > "Length of Skirt". Is this the total height, ie from the centre to the > edge of the tank head? Or from the edge to the corner\knuckle radius? > > My tank heads are these ones. > > http://www.purdie.co.uk/products/2-1_semi_ellipsidal.php > > Many thanks > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 10:53:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 07:53:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT Message-ID: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 12:17:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 17:17:56 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT In-Reply-To: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Vance. I must be missing something. 65# ? 65 whats? I worked it out like this. Unless im being stupid. Quite possible... Tank shell = 10" OD x 14" = 254 x 355mm 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 = 5725 cm3 /1000 = 5.7 Litres Caps using the psubs calculator = 4.68 litres each. Total 15 Litres. 15 litres total displacement. So that's 15 kg 15kg = 33lb Not taking into account the weight of the tank itself. Am I being dumb somewhere? On 11 May 2015 at 15:53, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cool. > Thanks Vance > -Scott Waters > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > > Date: Sun, May 10, 2015 11:39 pm > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > About 65#, I think. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 11, 2015, at 1:23 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Does anyone know the amount of boyancy a K-350 VBT has when blown dry? > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 14:43:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 14:43:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT In-Reply-To: References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <5550F83E.7000602@psubs.org> I think Vance is correct, around 65 pounds displacement. Too lazy to do it in metric, but English units are: 3.14 x (5x5) x 14 = 1099.55 cubic inches 1728 cubic inches per cubic foot 1099.55 / 1728 = .63 cubic feet 1 cubic foot seawater = 64 pounds (ok,63.something, but 64 is close enough) .63 * 64 = 40 pounds displacement So there's 40 pounds displacement just for the cylinder. Add in your two end caps and you get close to 65 pounds total. Jon On 5/11/2015 12:17 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Vance. > I must be missing something. 65# ? 65 whats? > I worked it out like this. Unless im being stupid. Quite possible... > Tank shell = 10" OD x 14" > = 254 x 355mm > 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 > = 5725 cm3 > /1000 = 5.7 Litres > Caps using the psubs calculator = 4.68 litres each. > Total 15 Litres. > 15 litres total displacement. So that's 15 kg > 15kg = 33lb > Not taking into account the weight of the tank itself. > Am I being dumb somewhere? > > On 11 May 2015 at 15:53, via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Cool. > Thanks Vance > -Scott Waters > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT > From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles > > > Date: Sun, May 10, 2015 11:39 pm > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > About 65#, I think. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 11, 2015, at 1:23 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com > via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > >> Does anyone know the amount of boyancy a K-350 VBT has when >> blown dry? >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 14:51:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 11:51:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT Message-ID: <20150511115114.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0b0bec0a0b.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 15:11:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 12:11:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: <20150511121140.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.d42471e1bb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 15:52:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:52:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT In-Reply-To: References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <13BE3A73-6A6B-4BB2-9F89-C0F5C22AB0AF@AOL.com> You are probably right. I was thinking of pod size. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2015, at 12:17 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Vance. > > I must be missing something. 65# ? 65 whats? > > I worked it out like this. Unless im being stupid. Quite possible... > > Tank shell = 10" OD x 14" > = 254 x 355mm > > 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 > = 5725 cm3 > /1000 = 5.7 Litres > > Caps using the psubs calculator = 4.68 litres each. > > Total 15 Litres. > > 15 litres total displacement. So that's 15 kg > > 15kg = 33lb > > Not taking into account the weight of the tank itself. > > Am I being dumb somewhere? > > On 11 May 2015 at 15:53, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cool. >> Thanks Vance >> -Scott Waters >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Date: Sun, May 10, 2015 11:39 pm >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> About 65#, I think. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 11, 2015, at 1:23 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone know the amount of boyancy a K-350 VBT has when blown dry? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Scott Waters >>> >>> >>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 18:02:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:02:32 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: <20150511150232.C4943E7F@m0048136.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 18:15:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:15:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: <20150511151517.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.0cb9a69e6c.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 18:20:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 18:20:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report In-Reply-To: <20150511121140.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.d42471e1bb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150511121140.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.d42471e1bb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: I think maybe Scott means relative to the more limited freeboard on a K250! Hey Scott, thanks for the report and its great to hear Trustworthy is all set. Pretty much the same here, I've just got a couple of totally minor things to do but Snoopy's essentially ready for the trip already. For those of you not aware, we are planning a joint two-sub trip to Seneca Lake in the first week of June, in collaboration with the local underwater preservation association. They are most generously providing lodging on waterfront property, surface support, and most importantly local knowledge and a list of proposed dives. I'm hoping we can make a "wrecks of Seneca" video. It should be a blast, and we hope to have an update/video for the convention as its just a few weeks after the trip. Best, Alec On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:11 PM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > For those of you that don't have me on face book, I figured I would post a > dive report from yesterdays dive. > > I took Trustworthy out to a local lake that normally has no visibility to > test her new lights and other modifications and additions. It was a near > flawless dive with the acceptation of the chop and the wind that > was terrible and made the loading on the trailer a little difficult. We did > a series of three dives with the first one being about 30 minutes, the > second one being about a hour and the third one was about 30 minutes. The > water was the clearest I have ever seen in Milford lake with a visibility > of about 5-6 feet. The sonar works flawlessly now (after tons of working > out bugs for the last 2 years) and was beyond what I expected!!! We passed > a mudding truck tire and I kid you not, I could see the tread of the tire > through the sonar!!! My new 10,000 lumen headlight and four 2,000 lumen > flood lights worked extremely well and could be seen from the surface even > at 30 feet of depth with a eerie glow. My piloting skills even improved > with being able to glide just inches above the bottom with only bumping > into a few things. I tested the OTS system to about 500 feet away from > the surface support and worked well with a little more back noise than I > would like, but I think some adjustment to the squelch should improve > that. The waves out in the cove were choppy and about 2-3 foot waves, but > Trustworthy did quite well with them. I got to say, the tall con makes a > huge difference. I thought I would share with you all the awesome dive we > had and we are officially ready to go to New York!!! > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 11 20:48:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 00:48:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mini Lathe In-Reply-To: <5550abed.036f440a.2654.61ee@mx.google.com> References: <1039297751.4898907.1431339564366.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5550abed.036f440a.2654.61ee@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2092719687.89988.1431391734427.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Hugh & Scott.Yes I was concerned about the rigidity in the tool post, & size & price are a concern.I've been through a couple of hours of videos reviews on the C3, but no mention of boring.It's 7" x 14" which is smaller than the one you bought Scott.I will look at thier larger models. I haven't come across too much that is negative aboutthe Sieg mini lathes.Alan From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 1:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mini Lathe #yiv9427445496 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv9427445496 filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv9427445496 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv9427445496 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv9427445496 p.yiv9427445496MsoNormal, #yiv9427445496 li.yiv9427445496MsoNormal, #yiv9427445496 div.yiv9427445496MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv9427445496 a:link, #yiv9427445496 span.yiv9427445496MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9427445496 a:visited, #yiv9427445496 span.yiv9427445496MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9427445496 span.yiv9427445496EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv9427445496 .yiv9427445496MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv9427445496 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv9427445496 div.yiv9427445496WordSection1 {}#yiv9427445496 Alan,It is better to get a larger old good name lathe than a small new lathe of dubious quality. Rigidity is gold.? If you are going to use a boring bar up the inside of 5? long hole then rigidity. How much do you want to spend?? How much room do you have??? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015 10:19 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mini Lathe ?Anyone familiar with the Sieg C3 Mini lathe?I am looking at buying one mainly for the initial purpose of making up aluminium housingsfor the brushless motors I have been experimenting with.I want to start with a 3" diameter, 5" long rod of alluminium & bore it out in steps for the propellor shaft,seals, bearing & motor. The internal diameter will eventually be 2&1/2".Could I do this succesfully on this lathe?Thanks Alan ? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 06:48:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 11:48:36 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> Hi I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and enjoy our dives. Regards Graham Bayliss Master Casper 2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 07:15:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 06:15:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Casper In-Reply-To: <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> Message-ID: Pictures, we need pictures! Have you uploaded the project to the psubs site? Cliff > On May 12, 2015, at 5:48 AM, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi > I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and enjoy our dives. > > Regards > > Graham Bayliss > Master Casper 2 > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 07:19:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 11:19:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> Message-ID: <1898640871.423965.1431429598083.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Congratulations Graham,looks like you have done a great job. Just had a look on your projects page.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1260127846/casper2/ Yes get a good pre dive check list written up as the attention you will get at the boatramp can be quite distracting.?Regards Alan From: Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:48 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) #yiv7076566124 #yiv7076566124 -- _filtered #yiv7076566124 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7076566124 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7076566124 #yiv7076566124 p.yiv7076566124MsoNormal, #yiv7076566124 li.yiv7076566124MsoNormal, #yiv7076566124 div.yiv7076566124MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7076566124 a:link, #yiv7076566124 span.yiv7076566124MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7076566124 a:visited, #yiv7076566124 span.yiv7076566124MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7076566124 span.yiv7076566124EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7076566124 .yiv7076566124MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7076566124 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv7076566124 div.yiv7076566124WordSection1 {}#yiv7076566124 Hi I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and? enjoy our dives. ?Regards ?Graham Bayliss Master Casper 2 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 07:30:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 06:30:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Casper In-Reply-To: <1898640871.423965.1431429598083.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> <1898640871.423965.1431429598083.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nice job on the build. We look forward to your first dive log. Cliff > On May 12, 2015, at 6:19 AM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Congratulations Graham, > looks like you have done a great job. Just had a look on your projects page. > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1260127846/casper2/ > Yes get a good pre dive check list written up as the attention you will get at the boat > ramp can be quite distracting. > Regards Alan > > From: Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:48 PM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Hi > I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and enjoy our dives. > > Regards > > Graham Bayliss > Master Casper 2 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 08:46:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 08:46:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Casper In-Reply-To: References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> Message-ID: Congrats Graham!!! Wow, she's an armor-plated version of the K350 and looks solid as can be without sacrificing good looks. Usually K350's require about 400 lbs of ballast, so I suspect Casper 2 might be better trimmed than most. I see very nice build quality and a lot of personalized touches. My only concern would be the use of flat plate instead of endcaps for battery pods and hatch, but I seem to recall Graham saying she was intended for very shallow service. Or maybe the comment was from someone else who did the same, I can't recall as it was some years ago. But very well done! Well, we have a sub on the Isle of Man and another on Guernsey now. I'm green with envy, wish I had ocean all around instead of concrete with terrible traffic. Cliff, here's the project page: http://www.psubs.org/projects/1260127846/casper2/ Best, Alec On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 7:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Pictures, we need pictures! Have you uploaded the project to the psubs > site? > > Cliff > > On May 12, 2015, at 5:48 AM, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi > > I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into > her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut > and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like > to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating > such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has > made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up > over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to > her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum > for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a > dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a > mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. > Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live > our dreams and enjoy our dives. > > > > Regards > > > > Graham Bayliss > > Master Casper 2 > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 09:17:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 14:17:02 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1898640871.423965.1431429598083.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> <1898640871.423965.1431429598083.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Congratulations Graham.! Looks great! Good luck with your test dives. Regards James On 12 May 2015 at 12:19, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congratulations Graham, > looks like you have done a great job. Just had a look on your projects > page. > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1260127846/casper2/ > Yes get a good pre dive check list written up as the attention you will > get at the boat > ramp can be quite distracting. > Regards Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:48 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > > Hi > I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into > her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut > and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like > to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating > such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has > made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up > over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to > her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum > for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a > dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a > mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. > Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live > our dreams and enjoy our dives. > > Regards > > Graham Bayliss > Master Casper 2 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 09:28:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 06:28:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20150512062808.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.fef0c062c4.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 10:22:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 07:22:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20150512072229.C4932D46@m0048141.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 12:34:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 17:34:17 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT In-Reply-To: <13BE3A73-6A6B-4BB2-9F89-C0F5C22AB0AF@AOL.com> References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <13BE3A73-6A6B-4BB2-9F89-C0F5C22AB0AF@AOL.com> Message-ID: Sorry for confusion. Vance and Jon are correct. I made a simple error. had forgotten to multiply by pie. WRONG 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 = 5725 cm3 WRONG /1000 = 5.7 Litres WRONG Correct 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 = 17988 cm3 /10000 = 18 Litres + (4.68 x 2) for Caps = 27.36 litres. 27kg or about 60lb On 11 May 2015 at 20:52, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > You are probably right. I was thinking of pod size. Thanks. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 11, 2015, at 12:17 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Vance. > > I must be missing something. 65# ? 65 whats? > > I worked it out like this. Unless im being stupid. Quite possible... > > Tank shell = 10" OD x 14" > = 254 x 355mm > > 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 > = 5725 cm3 > /1000 = 5.7 Litres > > Caps using the psubs calculator = 4.68 litres each. > > Total 15 Litres. > > 15 litres total displacement. So that's 15 kg > > 15kg = 33lb > > Not taking into account the weight of the tank itself. > > Am I being dumb somewhere? > > On 11 May 2015 at 15:53, via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cool. >> Thanks Vance >> -Scott Waters >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT >> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >> >> Date: Sun, May 10, 2015 11:39 pm >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> >> About 65#, I think. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 11, 2015, at 1:23 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Does anyone know the amount of boyancy a K-350 VBT has when blown dry? >> >> Thanks, >> Scott Waters >> >> >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 14:36:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 08:36:20 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> <1898640871.423965.1431429598083.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for keeping such a great photo log on her construction, I haven't been as good unfortunately. I agree with you that this forum has been a life saver for me and couldn't imagine going threw this process without it, Thanks to all. I noted in one of your pictures that you didn't seem to have any bracing on your conning tower when cutting out the view port holes except for the SS ring. Did you get any distortion at the bottom of it? Rick On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 3:17 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congratulations Graham.! Looks great! > > Good luck with your test dives. > > Regards > James > > On 12 May 2015 at 12:19, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Congratulations Graham, >> looks like you have done a great job. Just had a look on your projects >> page. >> http://www.psubs.org/projects/1260127846/casper2/ >> Yes get a good pre dive check list written up as the attention you will >> get at the boat >> ramp can be quite distracting. >> Regards Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:48 PM >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) >> >> Hi >> I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into >> her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut >> and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like >> to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating >> such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has >> made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up >> over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to >> her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum >> for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a >> dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a >> mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. >> Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live >> our dreams and enjoy our dives. >> >> Regards >> >> Graham Bayliss >> Master Casper 2 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 14:56:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 11:56:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT Message-ID: <20150512115618.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.ffb0906612.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 15:22:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 12:22:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FOR SALE Message-ID: <20150512122235.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.025345a1ce.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 15:54:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 15:54:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT In-Reply-To: References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <13BE3A73-6A6B-4BB2-9F89-C0F5C22AB0AF@AOL.com> Message-ID: Pi X Radius squared X L Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2015, at 12:34 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sorry for confusion. Vance and Jon are correct. I made a simple error. had forgotten to multiply by pie. > > WRONG > 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 > = 5725 cm3 WRONG > /1000 = 5.7 Litres WRONG > > > Correct > 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 > = 17988 cm3 > /10000 = 18 Litres > + > (4.68 x 2) for Caps = 27.36 litres. > > 27kg or about 60lb > > > > >> On 11 May 2015 at 20:52, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> You are probably right. I was thinking of pod size. Thanks. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 11, 2015, at 12:17 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Vance. >>> >>> I must be missing something. 65# ? 65 whats? >>> >>> I worked it out like this. Unless im being stupid. Quite possible... >>> >>> Tank shell = 10" OD x 14" >>> = 254 x 355mm >>> >>> 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 >>> = 5725 cm3 >>> /1000 = 5.7 Litres >>> >>> Caps using the psubs calculator = 4.68 litres each. >>> >>> Total 15 Litres. >>> >>> 15 litres total displacement. So that's 15 kg >>> >>> 15kg = 33lb >>> >>> Not taking into account the weight of the tank itself. >>> >>> Am I being dumb somewhere? >>> >>> On 11 May 2015 at 15:53, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Cool. >>>> Thanks Vance >>>> -Scott Waters >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT >>>> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> Date: Sun, May 10, 2015 11:39 pm >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> >>>> About 65#, I think. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On May 11, 2015, at 1:23 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know the amount of boyancy a K-350 VBT has when blown dry? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Scott Waters >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 15:54:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 15:54:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT In-Reply-To: References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <13BE3A73-6A6B-4BB2-9F89-C0F5C22AB0AF@AOL.com> Message-ID: Pi X Radius squared X L Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2015, at 12:34 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sorry for confusion. Vance and Jon are correct. I made a simple error. had forgotten to multiply by pie. > > WRONG > 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 > = 5725 cm3 WRONG > /1000 = 5.7 Litres WRONG > > > Correct > 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 > = 17988 cm3 > /10000 = 18 Litres > + > (4.68 x 2) for Caps = 27.36 litres. > > 27kg or about 60lb > > > > >> On 11 May 2015 at 20:52, Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> You are probably right. I was thinking of pod size. Thanks. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 11, 2015, at 12:17 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Vance. >>> >>> I must be missing something. 65# ? 65 whats? >>> >>> I worked it out like this. Unless im being stupid. Quite possible... >>> >>> Tank shell = 10" OD x 14" >>> = 254 x 355mm >>> >>> 3.14x(12.7x12.7)x35.5 >>> = 5725 cm3 >>> /1000 = 5.7 Litres >>> >>> Caps using the psubs calculator = 4.68 litres each. >>> >>> Total 15 Litres. >>> >>> 15 litres total displacement. So that's 15 kg >>> >>> 15kg = 33lb >>> >>> Not taking into account the weight of the tank itself. >>> >>> Am I being dumb somewhere? >>> >>> On 11 May 2015 at 15:53, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Cool. >>>> Thanks Vance >>>> -Scott Waters >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 VBT >>>> From: Vance Bradley via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> Date: Sun, May 10, 2015 11:39 pm >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> >>>> About 65#, I think. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On May 11, 2015, at 1:23 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know the amount of boyancy a K-350 VBT has when blown dry? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Scott Waters >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 17:35:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 12 May 2015 21:35 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <20150512122235.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.025345a1ce.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150512122235.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.025345a1ce.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1YsHpf-2qqe8G0@fwd33.t-online.de> Scott, I am interesst in the syntatic foam. Send me description, picture etc, off list. vbr Carsten "via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: I have a number of items for sale. Jon will be loading them up on the psubs for sale area *Set of 4 canister style halogen lights and extra halogen insert light. $100 for all They need to be taken apart and cleaned and resealed. Buyer can pick up or pay shipping *Sheet of acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" $300 Buyer can pick u or pay shipping *Propulsion system $4,000 -12 hp 72v motor with pressure housing and propeller -72v Lester battery charger -motor controller with pressure housing (note: this was used on a K-350 variant and made it go about 9 knots. This would be perfect for a small diesel electric submarine) Buyer can either pick up or pay shipping *Syntactic foam rated to max depth of 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant) $300 These are casted into a shape to fit around the hull. Buyer can pick up or pay shipping *Under Waters Communication OTS surface support station $1,000 -Includes transducer and mic Buyer can pick up or pay shipping *Body paneling for a 36" diameter hull to streamline it $500 Buyer can pick up or pay shipping Please e-mail me directly at swaters at waters-ks.com for questions and also pictures. Jon will have these items up on the site sometime in the near future. Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 17:46:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 14:46:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FOR SALE Message-ID: <20150512144651.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.4d005423ea.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 19:44:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 18:44:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FOR SALE Message-ID: Carsten, Attached is a picture. There is 8 blocks. Dean Ackman made them and I got them along with the sub. He told me they have a 1,200 foot limit and he said between all 8 there is about 200lbs of bouyancy. I am ripping yhe sub apart and rebuilding everything and won't need them. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" Date:05/12/2015 4:35 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FOR SALE Scott, I am interesst in the syntatic foam. Send me description, picture etc, off list. vbr Carsten "via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: I have a number of items for sale. Jon will be loading them up on the psubs for sale area *Set of 4 canister style halogen lights and extra halogen insert light. $100 for all They need to be taken apart and cleaned and resealed. Buyer can pick up or pay shipping *Sheet of acrylic 54"x9"x2.25" $300 Buyer can pick u or pay shipping *Propulsion system $4,000 -12 hp 72v motor with pressure housing and propeller -72v Lester battery charger -motor controller with pressure housing (note: this was used on a K-350 variant and made it go about 9 knots. This would be perfect for a small diesel electric submarine) Buyer can either pick up or pay shipping *Syntactic foam rated to max depth of 1,200 feet (about 200lbs buoyant) $300 These are casted into a shape to fit around the hull. Buyer can pick up or pay shipping *Under Waters Communication OTS surface support station $1,000 -Includes transducer and mic Buyer can pick up or pay shipping *Body paneling for a 36" diameter hull to streamline it $500 Buyer can pick up or pay shipping Please e-mail me directly at swaters at waters-ks.com for questions and also pictures. Jon will have these items up on the site sometime in the near future. Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20150512_184201_resized.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 252342 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 21:45:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 13:45:06 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report In-Reply-To: References: <20150511121140.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.d42471e1bb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <5552aca9.1067460a.2085.42ce@mx.google.com> Hi Scott, Sounds great. What is your sonar system and what were the bugs you talked about. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report I think maybe Scott means relative to the more limited freeboard on a K250! Hey Scott, thanks for the report and its great to hear Trustworthy is all set. Pretty much the same here, I've just got a couple of totally minor things to do but Snoopy's essentially ready for the trip already. For those of you not aware, we are planning a joint two-sub trip to Seneca Lake in the first week of June, in collaboration with the local underwater preservation association. They are most generously providing lodging on waterfront property, surface support, and most importantly local knowledge and a list of proposed dives. I'm hoping we can make a "wrecks of Seneca" video. It should be a blast, and we hope to have an update/video for the convention as its just a few weeks after the trip. Best, Alec On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:11 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: For those of you that don't have me on face book, I figured I would post a dive report from yesterdays dive. I took Trustworthy out to a local lake that normally has no visibility to test her new lights and other modifications and additions. It was a near flawless dive with the acceptation of the chop and the wind that was terrible and made the loading on the trailer a little difficult. We did a series of three dives with the first one being about 30 minutes, the second one being about a hour and the third one was about 30 minutes. The water was the clearest I have ever seen in Milford lake with a visibility of about 5-6 feet. The sonar works flawlessly now (after tons of working out bugs for the last 2 years) and was beyond what I expected!!! We passed a mudding truck tire and I kid you not, I could see the tread of the tire through the sonar!!! My new 10,000 lumen headlight and four 2,000 lumen flood lights worked extremely well and could be seen from the surface even at 30 feet of depth with a eerie glow. My piloting skills even improved with being able to glide just inches above the bottom with only bumping into a few things. I tested the OTS system to about 500 feet away from the surface support and worked well with a little more back noise than I would like, but I think some adjustment to the squelch should improve that. The waves out in the cove were choppy and about 2-3 foot waves, but Trustworthy did quite well with them. I got to say, the tall con makes a huge difference. I thought I would share with you all the awesome dive we had and we are officially ready to go to New York!!! Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 21:56:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 20:56:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: Hugh, It is a humminbird 898c. There is alot of things I had to do to get it right *Isolated ground with absalutely no noise *Sheild the data wire from magnetic feilds with that foil stuff *Figure out the wireing they use. Basically is is 5 prongs with 7 wires and two of the wires are back ups *Programing of the sonar to read out the best which took alot of messing with the settings. The factory settings do not produce the best image *Potting the GPS antenna That is all I can think of at this moment. If you get one I will do my best to explain it over the phone.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/12/2015 8:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hi Scott, Sounds great. What is your sonar system and what were the bugs you talked about. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report I think maybe Scott means relative to the more limited freeboard on a K250! Hey Scott, thanks for the report and its great to hear Trustworthy is all set. Pretty much the same here, I've just got a couple of totally minor things to do but Snoopy's essentially ready for the trip already. For those of you not aware, we are planning a joint two-sub trip to Seneca Lake in the first week of June, in collaboration with the local underwater preservation association. They are most generously providing lodging on waterfront property, surface support, and most importantly local knowledge and a list of proposed dives. I'm hoping we can make a "wrecks of Seneca" video. It should be a blast, and we hope to have an update/video for the convention as its just a few weeks after the trip. Best, Alec On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:11 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: For those of you that don't have me on face book, I figured I would post a dive report from yesterdays dive. I took Trustworthy out to a local lake that normally has no visibility to test her new lights and other modifications and additions. It was a near flawless dive with the acceptation of the chop and the wind that was terrible and made the loading on the trailer a little difficult. We did a series of three dives with the first one being about 30 minutes, the second one being about a hour and the third one was about 30 minutes. The water was the clearest I have ever seen in Milford lake with a visibility of about 5-6 feet. The sonar works flawlessly now (after tons of working out bugs for the last 2 years) and was beyond what I expected!!! We passed a mudding truck tire and I kid you not, I could see the tread of the tire through the sonar!!! My new 10,000 lumen headlight and four 2,000 lumen flood lights worked extremely well and could be seen from the surface even at 30 feet of depth with a eerie glow. My piloting skills even improved with being able to glide just inches above the bottom with only bumping into a few things. I tested the OTS system to about 500 feet away from the surface support and worked well with a little more back noise than I would like, but I think some adjustment to the squelch should improve that. The waves out in the cove were choppy and about 2-3 foot waves, but Trustworthy did quite well with them. I got to say, the tall con makes a huge difference. I thought I would share with you all the awesome dive we had and we are officially ready to go to New York!!! Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 12 23:41:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 15:41:28 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5552c7ef.cb82460a.1ddf.3dac@mx.google.com> Many thanks Scott. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015 1:57 p.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hugh, It is a humminbird 898c. There is alot of things I had to do to get it right *Isolated ground with absalutely no noise *Sheild the data wire from magnetic feilds with that foil stuff *Figure out the wireing they use. Basically is is 5 prongs with 7 wires and two of the wires are back ups *Programing of the sonar to read out the best which took alot of messing with the settings. The factory settings do not produce the best image *Potting the GPS antenna That is all I can think of at this moment. If you get one I will do my best to explain it over the phone. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/12/2015 8:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hi Scott, Sounds great. What is your sonar system and what were the bugs you talked about. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report I think maybe Scott means relative to the more limited freeboard on a K250! Hey Scott, thanks for the report and its great to hear Trustworthy is all set. Pretty much the same here, I've just got a couple of totally minor things to do but Snoopy's essentially ready for the trip already. For those of you not aware, we are planning a joint two-sub trip to Seneca Lake in the first week of June, in collaboration with the local underwater preservation association. They are most generously providing lodging on waterfront property, surface support, and most importantly local knowledge and a list of proposed dives. I'm hoping we can make a "wrecks of Seneca" video. It should be a blast, and we hope to have an update/video for the convention as its just a few weeks after the trip. Best, Alec On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:11 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: For those of you that don't have me on face book, I figured I would post a dive report from yesterdays dive. I took Trustworthy out to a local lake that normally has no visibility to test her new lights and other modifications and additions. It was a near flawless dive with the acceptation of the chop and the wind that was terrible and made the loading on the trailer a little difficult. We did a series of three dives with the first one being about 30 minutes, the second one being about a hour and the third one was about 30 minutes. The water was the clearest I have ever seen in Milford lake with a visibility of about 5-6 feet. The sonar works flawlessly now (after tons of working out bugs for the last 2 years) and was beyond what I expected!!! We passed a mudding truck tire and I kid you not, I could see the tread of the tire through the sonar!!! My new 10,000 lumen headlight and four 2,000 lumen flood lights worked extremely well and could be seen from the surface even at 30 feet of depth with a eerie glow. My piloting skills even improved with being able to glide just inches above the bottom with only bumping into a few things. I tested the OTS system to about 500 feet away from the surface support and worked well with a little more back noise than I would like, but I think some adjustment to the squelch should improve that. The waves out in the cove were choppy and about 2-3 foot waves, but Trustworthy did quite well with them. I got to say, the tall con makes a huge difference. I thought I would share with you all the awesome dive we had and we are officially ready to go to New York!!! Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 13 01:51:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 22:51:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: Hi Scott, how well does the side scan work on this unit? Do like the 7 inch screen and how it looked in a dark sub? Best Regards,David Colombo Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" Date: 05/12/2015 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hugh,It is a humminbird 898c. There is alot of things I had to do to get it right*Isolated ground with absalutely no noise*Sheild the data wire from magnetic feilds with that foil stuff*Figure out the wireing they use. Basically is is 5 prongs with 7 wires and two of the wires are back ups*Programing of the sonar to read out the best which took alot of messing with the settings. The factory settings do not produce the best image*Potting the GPS antenna That is all I can think of at this moment. If you get one I will do my best to explain it over the phone.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/12/2015 8:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hi Scott, Sounds great.? What is your sonar system and what were the bugs you talked about.? Hugh??From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report?I think maybe Scott means relative to the more limited freeboard on a K250! Hey Scott, thanks for the report and its great to hear Trustworthy is all set. Pretty much the same here, I've just got a couple of totally minor things to do but Snoopy's essentially ready for the trip already. For those of you not aware, we are planning a joint two-sub trip to Seneca Lake in the first week of June, in collaboration with the local underwater preservation association. They are most generously providing lodging on waterfront property, surface support, and most importantly local knowledge and a list of proposed dives. I'm hoping we can make a "wrecks of Seneca" video. It should be a blast, and we hope to have an update/video for the convention as its just a few weeks after the trip.?Best,?Alec?On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:11 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote:For those of you that don't have me on face book, I figured I would post a dive report from yesterdays dive.?I took Trustworthy out to a local lake that normally has no visibility to test her new lights and other modifications and additions. It was a near flawless dive with the acceptation of the chop and the wind?that was?terrible and made the loading on the trailer a little difficult. We did a series of three dives with the first one being about 30 minutes, the second one being about a hour and the third one was about 30 minutes. The water was the clearest I?have ever seen in?Milford lake?with a visibility of about 5-6 feet.?The sonar works flawlessly now (after tons of working out bugs for the last 2 years) and was beyond what I expected!!! We passed a mudding truck tire and I kid you not, I could see the tread of the tire through the sonar!!! My new 10,000 lumen headlight and four 2,000 lumen flood lights worked extremely?well and could be seen from the surface even at 30 feet of depth with a eerie glow. My piloting skills even improved with being able to glide just inches above the bottom with only bumping into a few things. I tested the OTS system to about 500 feet away from the?surface support and worked well with a little more back noise than I would like, but I think some adjustment to the squelch should?improve that.?The waves out in the cove were choppy and about 2-3 foot waves, but Trustworthy did quite well with them. I got to say, the tall con makes a huge difference. I thought I would share with you all the awesome dive we had and we are officially ready to go to New York!!!?Thanks,Scott Waters???? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________?The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.?http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 13 11:04:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 10:04:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Message-ID: I love it and when done correctly it is amazingly accurate. I would spring for the 360 addition, which wasn't available when I started it. If it is to bright, you just turn the brightness down. Thanks, Scott Waters? Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/13/2015 12:51 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hi Scott, how well does the side scan work on this unit? Do like the 7 inch screen and how it looked in a dark sub? Best Regards, David Colombo Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" Date: 05/12/2015 6:56 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hugh, It is a humminbird 898c. There is alot of things I had to do to get it right *Isolated ground with absalutely no noise *Sheild the data wire from magnetic feilds with that foil stuff *Figure out the wireing they use. Basically is is 5 prongs with 7 wires and two of the wires are back ups *Programing of the sonar to read out the best which took alot of messing with the settings. The factory settings do not produce the best image *Potting the GPS antenna That is all I can think of at this moment. If you get one I will do my best to explain it over the phone. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/12/2015 8:45 PM (GMT-06:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report Hi Scott, Sounds great. What is your sonar system and what were the bugs you talked about. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:20 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dive Report I think maybe Scott means relative to the more limited freeboard on a K250! Hey Scott, thanks for the report and its great to hear Trustworthy is all set. Pretty much the same here, I've just got a couple of totally minor things to do but Snoopy's essentially ready for the trip already. For those of you not aware, we are planning a joint two-sub trip to Seneca Lake in the first week of June, in collaboration with the local underwater preservation association. They are most generously providing lodging on waterfront property, surface support, and most importantly local knowledge and a list of proposed dives. I'm hoping we can make a "wrecks of Seneca" video. It should be a blast, and we hope to have an update/video for the convention as its just a few weeks after the trip. Best, Alec On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:11 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: For those of you that don't have me on face book, I figured I would post a dive report from yesterdays dive. I took Trustworthy out to a local lake that normally has no visibility to test her new lights and other modifications and additions. It was a near flawless dive with the acceptation of the chop and the wind that was terrible and made the loading on the trailer a little difficult. We did a series of three dives with the first one being about 30 minutes, the second one being about a hour and the third one was about 30 minutes. The water was the clearest I have ever seen in Milford lake with a visibility of about 5-6 feet. The sonar works flawlessly now (after tons of working out bugs for the last 2 years) and was beyond what I expected!!! We passed a mudding truck tire and I kid you not, I could see the tread of the tire through the sonar!!! My new 10,000 lumen headlight and four 2,000 lumen flood lights worked extremely well and could be seen from the surface even at 30 feet of depth with a eerie glow. My piloting skills even improved with being able to glide just inches above the bottom with only bumping into a few things. I tested the OTS system to about 500 feet away from the surface support and worked well with a little more back noise than I would like, but I think some adjustment to the squelch should improve that. The waves out in the cove were choppy and about 2-3 foot waves, but Trustworthy did quite well with them. I got to say, the tall con makes a huge difference. I thought I would share with you all the awesome dive we had and we are officially ready to go to New York!!! Thanks, Scott Waters _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 11576 (20150505) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 13 15:43:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 07:43:49 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Seals Message-ID: Anyone familiar with the opposed dual spring loaded lip seal for the separation of two fluids? http://www.ceetak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Ceetak-Rotary-Shaft-Seals-Brochure.pdf It "seems" the ideal seal for an oil compensated thruster, where you are keeping water out & oil in. Am trying to find the right type of seal to fit on a 10mm propeller shaft that will run at up to 3000 rpm. 250 psi max pressure. Regards Alan From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 13 16:27:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 20:27:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Seals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1797285465.1969339.1431548879795.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Correction, looking for seal for 1/2" propeller shaft.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:43 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Seals Anyone familiar with the opposed dual spring loaded lip seal for the separation of two fluids? http://www.ceetak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Ceetak-Rotary-Shaft-Seals-Brochure.pdf It "seems" the ideal seal for an oil compensated thruster, where you are keeping water out & oil in.? Am trying to find the right type of seal to fit on a 10mm propeller shaft that will run at up to 3000 rpm. 250 psi max pressure. Regards Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 13 18:51:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 22:51:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Seals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <833980895.2085153.1431557487654.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Answering my own thread here, but the dual spring loaded lip seal only seems to be in?the low pressure range. It is 2 seals combined, so there is a gap in between that wouldfill up with sea water from outside & oil from inside in an overpressure situation.A sales rep suggested that for my application with oil compensation, I just go with a low pressure $6- seal.Which begs the question, "why do they bother having a double lipped seal for separatingfluids if a single lipped seal would do"?Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 7:43 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Seals Anyone familiar with the opposed dual spring loaded lip seal for the separation of two fluids? http://www.ceetak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Ceetak-Rotary-Shaft-Seals-Brochure.pdf It "seems" the ideal seal for an oil compensated thruster, where you are keeping water out & oil in.? Am trying to find the right type of seal to fit on a 10mm propeller shaft that will run at up to 3000 rpm. 250 psi max pressure. Regards Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 13 20:11:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 20:11:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention ISR Registration Deadline: Final Reminder!! Message-ID: All, a *FINAL* reminder. If you are attending the 2015 Psub Convention there is a *hard* *deadline* for the Carderock Naval Facility/International Submarine Race registration. *Not 100% sure if you are going? Register anyway and I can remove you if needed.* To register to visit the International Submarine Races and Naval Surface Warfare Center visit (6/25) as part of the 2015 Psub Convention please complete the following action items. Please note: *NSWC Carderock Registration deadline: 19 May 2015 at 5 PM* Complete the on-line registration, print, complete and mail forms 5.2 (Liability Release) and 5.5 (NSWCCD Visit Request) Visit site: www.onlineregistrationcenter.com/ISR13 Links to the forms can be found approxiamtely half way down the page. Mail all completed forms (with signatures) to: Mike Tucker ISR 13 P. O. Box 1937 Leonardtown, MD 20650 *Completed Forms are due: 19 May 2015 * At the bottom third of the page there is the on-line registration section. Please complete and submit. For the following field use these entries: Registration Type: ISR Guest Team Name/Sub Name: Does not apply Team on Site POC: N/A Any problems/questions email or calls me 317-847-0389. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 05:22:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 10:22:10 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20150512072229.C4932D46@m0048141.ppops.net> References: <20150512072229.C4932D46@m0048141.ppops.net> Message-ID: <000501d08e27$767f7e40$637e7ac0$@net> Hi Brian It seems to take for ever but the end suddenly come and you cant believe it i have waited for more than five years to own my own sub and now it is a reality. You will get there and then the realisation that you have done it will take some time to take in . Regards Graham Master Casper 2 From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 12 May 2015 15:22 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Congratulations Graham, I've been working on mine about the same amount of time. It's good to know that they DO get completed at some point ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 11:48:36 +0100 Hi I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and enjoy our dives. Regards Graham Bayliss Master Casper 2 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 05:22:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 10:22:10 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20150512062808.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.fef0c062c4.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> References: <20150512062808.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.fef0c062c4.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <000d01d08e27$76b88fa0$6429aee0$@net> Hi Scott That was my first worry slipping of the sub when at sea so i pinched some ideas from the German u boats there decks were flat and i used their design for my ballast tanks for and aft. Bu useing steel instead of fibre glass i know if i hit anything i wont dislodge the tank which could mean loosing my sub to the depths. Regards Graham Master Casper2 From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 12 May 2015 14:28 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Amazing! I love the way you did the flat deck to walk on! I never thought about that until one day when I was diving and needed to adjust something and slipped and dang near broke my arm on the con. Can't wait to see the first dive report. Thanks, Scott Waters -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) From: Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Date: Tue, May 12, 2015 3:48 am To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> Hi I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and enjoy our dives. Regards Graham Bayliss Master Casper 2 _____ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 05:22:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 10:22:10 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> <1898640871.423965.1431429598083.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001d08e27$76146060$623d2120$@net> Hi Rick There was no distortion as far as i can tell but everyone to there own way of doing things if you feel better by adding bracing then do so what works for one does not always work for others it would not hurt to brace when cutting the conning tower view ports . Regards Graham Master Casper2 From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 12 May 2015 19:36 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Thanks for keeping such a great photo log on her construction, I haven't been as good unfortunately. I agree with you that this forum has been a life saver for me and couldn't imagine going threw this process without it, Thanks to all. I noted in one of your pictures that you didn't seem to have any bracing on your conning tower when cutting out the view port holes except for the SS ring. Did you get any distortion at the bottom of it? Rick On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 3:17 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congratulations Graham.! Looks great! Good luck with your test dives. Regards James On 12 May 2015 at 12:19, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congratulations Graham, looks like you have done a great job. Just had a look on your projects page. http://www.psubs.org/projects/1260127846/casper2/ Yes get a good pre dive check list written up as the attention you will get at the boat ramp can be quite distracting. Regards Alan _____ From: Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:48 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Hi I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and enjoy our dives. Regards Graham Bayliss Master Casper 2 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 05:22:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 10:22:10 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Casper In-Reply-To: References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> Message-ID: <001201d08e27$7763ead0$662bc070$@net> Hi Alec Yes i am the one with the flat plate ends to my battery pods they are half inch thick and should not buckle at the depths i intend to use her. I have come up with an idea for adding weight if it is required i will have trays fitted to the top of my battery pods here i can add and weight which i will strap down when required. Weights will be made up of concrete which will not corrode. Regards Graham Master Casper 2 From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 12 May 2015 13:46 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Casper Congrats Graham!!! Wow, she's an armor-plated version of the K350 and looks solid as can be without sacrificing good looks. Usually K350's require about 400 lbs of ballast, so I suspect Casper 2 might be better trimmed than most. I see very nice build quality and a lot of personalized touches. My only concern would be the use of flat plate instead of endcaps for battery pods and hatch, but I seem to recall Graham saying she was intended for very shallow service. Or maybe the comment was from someone else who did the same, I can't recall as it was some years ago. But very well done! Well, we have a sub on the Isle of Man and another on Guernsey now. I'm green with envy, wish I had ocean all around instead of concrete with terrible traffic. Cliff, here's the project page: http://www.psubs.org/projects/1260127846/casper2/ Best, Alec On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 7:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pictures, we need pictures! Have you uploaded the project to the psubs site? Cliff On May 12, 2015, at 5:48 AM, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and enjoy our dives. Regards Graham Bayliss Master Casper 2 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 07:54:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 07:54:10 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention ISR Registration Deadline: Final Reminder!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve: Will Mike T. Confirm receipt of registration forms? John K. (203) 414-1000 Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2015, at 8:11 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, a FINAL reminder. If you are attending the 2015 Psub Convention there is a hard deadline for the Carderock Naval Facility/International Submarine Race registration. > > Not 100% sure if you are going? Register anyway and I can remove you if needed. > > To register to visit the International Submarine Races and Naval Surface Warfare Center visit (6/25) as part of the 2015 Psub Convention please complete the following action items. > > Please note: NSWC Carderock Registration deadline: 19 May 2015 at 5 PM > > Complete the on-line registration, print, complete and mail forms 5.2 (Liability Release) and 5.5 (NSWCCD Visit Request) > > Visit site: www.onlineregistrationcenter.com/ISR13 > > Links to the forms can be found approxiamtely half way down the page. Mail all completed forms (with signatures) to: > Mike Tucker > ISR 13 > P. O. Box 1937 > Leonardtown, MD 20650 > Completed Forms are due: 19 May 2015 > > At the bottom third of the page there is the on-line registration section. Please complete and submit. For the following field use these entries: > Registration Type: ISR Guest > Team Name/Sub Name: Does not apply > Team on Site POC: N/A > > Any problems/questions email or calls me 317-847-0389. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 09:29:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 08:29:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Message-ID: Hey guys.? I am needing to order some Minkota motors for my new sub. I want them to be 36 volt and have plenty of power for my K-350. I am planning on two vectored thrusters on the top for crab and up/down motion and planning for two vectored on the stern for turn and forward/backward motion.? What suggestions do you guys out there with Minkota experience have? Should I go with the saltwater or freashwater verson (I am planning on using the sub in the ocean). Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 09:38:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 13:38:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <420209341.273487.1431610732023.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I recently ordered four Minn Kota 101 lower units for the R300 upgrade.? The MKD part number is 2886289.? They cost $265 each.? The associated controller card is MINN KOTA TRAXXIS TROLLING MOTOR MAIN CONTROL BOARD Pn 2184017?which cost? $126.95 each.? I am using an after market?3 bladed prop; then Kipawa 80/01 - Weedless Trolling Motor Replacement Prop for Minn Kota Motors. All works fine on the bench.? Have not got them in the water. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: psubs Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:29 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Hey guys.?I am needing to order some Minkota motors for my new sub. I want them to be 36 volt and have plenty of power for my K-350. I am planning on two vectored thrusters on the top for crab and up/down motion and planning for two vectored on the stern for turn and forward/backward motion.? What suggestions do you guys out there with Minkota experience have? Should I go with the saltwater or freashwater verson (I am planning on using the sub in the ocean). Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 10:27:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 09:27:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Message-ID: Awesome. Thanks Cliff. So what you need is just the lower end, the prop, and a meathod of controlling it right? I was thinking about a 4 channel controller to control all four and use joy sticks, ?ut I might be able to rewire the controller you are getting and hook it up to the joysticks. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/14/2015 8:38 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota I recently ordered four Minn Kota 101 lower units for the R300 upgrade. The MKD part number is 2886289. They cost $265 each. The associated controller card is MINN KOTA TRAXXIS TROLLING MOTOR MAIN CONTROL BOARD Pn 2184017 which cost $126.95 each. I am using an after market 3 bladed prop; then Kipawa 80/01 - Weedless Trolling Motor Replacement Prop for Minn Kota Motors. All works fine on the bench. Have not got them in the water. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: psubs Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:29 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Hey guys. I am needing to order some Minkota motors for my new sub. I want them to be 36 volt and have plenty of power for my K-350. I am planning on two vectored thrusters on the top for crab and up/down motion and planning for two vectored on the stern for turn and forward/backward motion. What suggestions do you guys out there with Minkota experience have? Should I go with the saltwater or freashwater verson (I am planning on using the sub in the ocean). Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 10:32:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 14:32:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1917061349.314665.1431613930178.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I use a PLC to interface between the MK controller cards as 0-5 vdc signal.? Just cut off the POT and connect the control signal where the POT was.? Lots of ways to skin?the cat. From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Awesome. Thanks Cliff. So what you need is just the lower end, the prop, and a meathod of controlling it right? I was thinking about a 4 channel controller to control all four and use joy sticks, ?ut I might be able to rewire the controller you are getting and hook it up to the joysticks.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/14/2015 8:38 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota I recently ordered four Minn Kota 101 lower units for the R300 upgrade.? The MKD part number is 2886289.? They cost $265 each.? The associated controller card is MINN KOTA TRAXXIS TROLLING MOTOR MAIN CONTROL BOARD Pn 2184017?which cost? $126.95 each.? I am using an after market?3 bladed prop; then Kipawa 80/01 - Weedless Trolling Motor Replacement Prop for Minn Kota Motors. All works fine on the bench.? Have not got them in the water. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: psubs Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:29 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Hey guys.?I am needing to order some Minkota motors for my new sub. I want them to be 36 volt and have plenty of power for my K-350. I am planning on two vectored thrusters on the top for crab and up/down motion and planning for two vectored on the stern for turn and forward/backward motion.? What suggestions do you guys out there with Minkota experience have? Should I go with the saltwater or freashwater verson (I am planning on using the sub in the ocean). Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 10:54:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 10:54:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention ISR Registration Deadline: Final Reminder!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I need to check. I believe we just get the electronic registration verification email (or at least I did). In the past I don't think they tell you when the hard copies are received. Steve On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:54 AM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve: > > Will Mike T. Confirm receipt of registration forms? > > John K. > (203) 414-1000 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2015, at 8:11 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, a *FINAL* reminder. If you are attending the 2015 Psub Convention > there is a *hard* *deadline* for the Carderock Naval > Facility/International Submarine Race registration. > > *Not 100% sure if you are going? Register anyway and I can remove you if > needed.* > > To register to visit the International Submarine Races and Naval Surface > Warfare Center visit (6/25) as part of the 2015 Psub Convention please > complete the following action items. > > Please note: > > *NSWC Carderock Registration deadline: 19 May 2015 at 5 PM* > Complete the on-line registration, print, complete and mail forms 5.2 > (Liability Release) and 5.5 (NSWCCD Visit Request) > > Visit site: www.onlineregistrationcenter.com/ISR13 > > Links to the forms can be found approxiamtely half way down the page. Mail > all completed forms (with signatures) to: > Mike Tucker > ISR 13 > P. O. Box 1937 > Leonardtown, MD 20650 > *Completed Forms are due: 19 May 2015 * > > At the bottom third of the page there is the on-line registration section. > Please complete and submit. For the following field use these entries: > Registration Type: ISR Guest > Team Name/Sub Name: Does not apply > Team on Site POC: N/A > > Any problems/questions email or calls me 317-847-0389. > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 11:08:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 11:08:42 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5554BA7A.7090406@psubs.org> I don't recall if there is any real difference between the fresh and saltwater versions, but I know the last time we ordered some there was no difference in price so we all picked the saltwater version "just-in-case". Frankly, I think the only difference is the paint scheme. Jon On 5/14/2015 9:29 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey guys. > I am needing to order some Minkota motors for my new sub. I want them > to be 36 volt and have plenty of power for my K-350. I am planning on > two vectored thrusters on the top for crab and up/down motion and > planning for two vectored on the stern for turn and forward/backward > motion. > > What suggestions do you guys out there with Minkota experience have? > Should I go with the saltwater or freashwater verson (I am planning on > using the sub in the ocean). > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 11:48:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 11:48:33 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention ISR Registration Deadline: Final Reminder!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, I think you got that right. I got the electronic confirmation of the online registration, but its been two or three weeks since I mailed the forms and I have not heard back anything about those. Best, Alec On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I need to check. > I believe we just get the electronic registration verification email (or > at least I did). In the past I don't think they tell you when the hard > copies are received. > Steve > > On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:54 AM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Steve: >> >> Will Mike T. Confirm receipt of registration forms? >> >> John K. >> (203) 414-1000 >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 13, 2015, at 8:11 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> All, a *FINAL* reminder. If you are attending the 2015 Psub Convention >> there is a *hard* *deadline* for the Carderock Naval >> Facility/International Submarine Race registration. >> >> *Not 100% sure if you are going? Register anyway and I can remove you if >> needed.* >> >> To register to visit the International Submarine Races and Naval Surface >> Warfare Center visit (6/25) as part of the 2015 Psub Convention please >> complete the following action items. >> >> Please note: >> >> *NSWC Carderock Registration deadline: 19 May 2015 at 5 PM* >> Complete the on-line registration, print, complete and mail forms 5.2 >> (Liability Release) and 5.5 (NSWCCD Visit Request) >> >> Visit site: www.onlineregistrationcenter.com/ISR13 >> >> Links to the forms can be found approxiamtely half way down the page. >> Mail all completed forms (with signatures) to: >> Mike Tucker >> ISR 13 >> P. O. Box 1937 >> Leonardtown, MD 20650 >> *Completed Forms are due: 19 May 2015 * >> >> At the bottom third of the page there is the on-line registration >> section. Please complete and submit. For the following field use these >> entries: >> Registration Type: ISR Guest >> Team Name/Sub Name: Does not apply >> Team on Site POC: N/A >> >> Any problems/questions email or calls me 317-847-0389. >> >> Steve >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 13:46:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 12:46:38 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Message-ID: Ok. Thanks Jon -Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/14/2015 10:08 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota I don't recall if there is any real difference between the fresh and saltwater versions, but I know the last time we ordered some there was no difference in price so we all picked the saltwater version "just-in-case". Frankly, I think the only difference is the paint scheme. Jon On 5/14/2015 9:29 AM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey guys. I am needing to order some Minkota motors for my new sub. I want them to be 36 volt and have plenty of power for my K-350. I am planning on two vectored thrusters on the top for crab and up/down motion and planning for two vectored on the stern for turn and forward/backward motion. What suggestions do you guys out there with Minkota experience have? Should I go with the saltwater or freashwater verson (I am planning on using the sub in the ocean). Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 15:28:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 15:28:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention ISR Registration Deadline: Final Reminder!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello John, I would not expect to here a confirmation or receipt of the mailed forms. Steve On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:54 AM, John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve: > > Will Mike T. Confirm receipt of registration forms? > > John K. > (203) 414-1000 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2015, at 8:11 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, a *FINAL* reminder. If you are attending the 2015 Psub Convention > there is a *hard* *deadline* for the Carderock Naval > Facility/International Submarine Race registration. > > *Not 100% sure if you are going? Register anyway and I can remove you if > needed.* > > To register to visit the International Submarine Races and Naval Surface > Warfare Center visit (6/25) as part of the 2015 Psub Convention please > complete the following action items. > > Please note: > > *NSWC Carderock Registration deadline: 19 May 2015 at 5 PM* > Complete the on-line registration, print, complete and mail forms 5.2 > (Liability Release) and 5.5 (NSWCCD Visit Request) > > Visit site: www.onlineregistrationcenter.com/ISR13 > > Links to the forms can be found approxiamtely half way down the page. Mail > all completed forms (with signatures) to: > Mike Tucker > ISR 13 > P. O. Box 1937 > Leonardtown, MD 20650 > *Completed Forms are due: 19 May 2015 * > > At the bottom third of the page there is the on-line registration section. > Please complete and submit. For the following field use these entries: > Registration Type: ISR Guest > Team Name/Sub Name: Does not apply > Team on Site POC: N/A > > Any problems/questions email or calls me 317-847-0389. > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 15:47:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 15:47:09 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reinforment Rings In-Reply-To: <855969390.4678244.1431309943994.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <855969390.4678244.1431309943994.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chris, there are Facebook pages for these type of subs that are on display. Through those you might be able to contact some of the volunteer base and get some direct info./dimensions. They love their boats! search for submarinemuseums.org on Facebook Steve On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm doing some research. Does anyone know what were the thickness and > width of the reinforcement rings on the Gato or Balao class US submarines. > Even an estimate would help. > > Thanks, > Chris > > > *Christopher Cave * > *christophercave at yahoo.com * > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 15:59:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 19:59:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <718749163.2931195.1431633594978.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,this is an old thread on compensating Minn kota motors. It quotes a guy who?has had a lot of experience converting them for submarine / rov use. Might be handy.AlanPersonal Submersible: White Paper: Minn Kota Motor Notes | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Personal Submersible: White Paper: Minn Kota Motor NotesWelcome to the White Paper: Minn Kota Motor Notes | | | | View on www.psubs.org | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | ? Dave's pretty busy most of the time; but he said he'll try to answer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 16:05:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 15:05:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Message-ID: Alan, I deffenetly appriciate it! Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/14/2015 2:59 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minkota Scott,this is an old thread on compensating Minn kota motors. It quotes a guy who has had a lot of experience converting them for submarine / rov use. Might be handy.AlanPersonal Submersible: White Paper: Minn Kota Motor Notes | | | | | | | | | Personal Submersible: White Paper: Minn Kota Motor NotesWelcome to the White Paper: Minn Kota Motor Notes | | | | View on www.psubs.org | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | Dave's pretty busy most of the time; but he said he'll try to answer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 17:36:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 09:36:57 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Casper In-Reply-To: <001201d08e27$7763ead0$662bc070$@net> References: <20150511075305.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.c27ed6d8cb.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> <006c01d08ca1$32e02cc0$98a08640$@net> <001201d08e27$7763ead0$662bc070$@net> Message-ID: <55551581.028a460a.689b.0846@mx.google.com> Hi Graham, you mentioned ?? plate which is probably an over-kill and I don?t know if you have calculated for the thickness or eyeballed it. What is the pressure you are rating it to and what is the diameter of your battery pod? There is an ASME calc for flat end plates that you may or may not be aware of. ASME uses a safety factor of 4 but Sean or Cliff can possibly elaborate as to whether a safety factor of 2 might be sufficient. Regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2015 9:22 p.m. To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Casper Hi Alec Yes i am the one with the flat plate ends to my battery pods they are half inch thick and should not buckle at the depths i intend to use her. I have come up with an idea for adding weight if it is required i will have trays fitted to the top of my battery pods here i can add and weight which i will strap down when required. Weights will be made up of concrete which will not corrode. Regards Graham Master Casper 2 From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 12 May 2015 13:46 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Casper Congrats Graham!!! Wow, she's an armor-plated version of the K350 and looks solid as can be without sacrificing good looks. Usually K350's require about 400 lbs of ballast, so I suspect Casper 2 might be better trimmed than most. I see very nice build quality and a lot of personalized touches. My only concern would be the use of flat plate instead of endcaps for battery pods and hatch, but I seem to recall Graham saying she was intended for very shallow service. Or maybe the comment was from someone else who did the same, I can't recall as it was some years ago. But very well done! Well, we have a sub on the Isle of Man and another on Guernsey now. I'm green with envy, wish I had ocean all around instead of concrete with terrible traffic. Cliff, here's the project page: http://www.psubs.org/projects/1260127846/casper2/ Best, Alec On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 7:15 AM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pictures, we need pictures! Have you uploaded the project to the psubs site? Cliff On May 12, 2015, at 5:48 AM, Graham Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi I have finished building Casper two five years of my life have gone into her so no rush to launch her i will go over everything and check every nut and bolt and seal . i will write a check list for every dive i would like to thank every one in the club who has opened my mind to ways of creating such a beautiful submarine. I have listened to your problems and this has made me think harder to over come some of the problems that have come up over the years. I will keep you posted as to when i first introduce her to her rightful home the sea i have been asked to take her to a local museum for a short while to show people that every thing is possible if you have a dream it can become a reality. Someone once said you will never build a mini sub well i have proved them wrong and the proof is in the end product. Again i would like to thank you all for your inspiration may we all live our dreams and enjoy our dives. Regards Graham Bayliss Master Casper 2 _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 14 23:28:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 20:28:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] exotic steel Message-ID: <20150514202805.54AA4A2D@m0048138.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 05:41:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 09:41:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <106015FB-69F9-4343-A660-132DD108AF38@yahoo.com> References: <1431260785.4377.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <106015FB-69F9-4343-A660-132DD108AF38@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <505757013.198388.1431682902778.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 09:53:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 13:53:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <505757013.198388.1431682902778.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <505757013.198388.1431682902778.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1721279750.1014204.1431698038181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 10:49:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 07:49:30 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Message-ID: Alan, My Humminbird transducer is epoxy potted. The Humminbird 360 is oil filled. I don't think it is nessesary to build a houseing for it.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/15/2015 2:41 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar inside a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting. They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass. Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarine with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 for plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. Quote from installation pdfs below...... As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the sonar signal from passing through. Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. ......In-hull: Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times. In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material. Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 15:14:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 07:14:43 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <1721279750.1014204.1431698038181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <505757013.198388.1431682902778.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1721279750.1014204.1431698038181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, Scott, I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garmin http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/ & the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad or the Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducers construction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi. I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth) The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment. The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot through fiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normal boating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape. The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma. That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plate I suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it to the hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull. I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will the paddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics?? cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure. > > BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers part of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC. I then can parse the string to get data. I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading. This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. > > I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap. > > Cliff > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of > exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. > I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar inside > a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting. > They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass. > Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarine > with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. > For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 for > plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. > Quote from installation pdfs below...... > As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many > fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of > the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar > characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through > the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be > single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air > trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the > sonar signal from passing through. > Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the > boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation > comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part > slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. > ......In-hull: Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times. > In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material. > Alan > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. > They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. > Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than > the Sinrad 2d. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Alan, > > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. > > Hank > >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: > >> > >> From: hank pronk > >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 15:32:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:32:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <761443355.1242393.1431718373070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure.? I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing.? I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing.? I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go. Cliff ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 15:33:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 07:33:21 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: References: <505757013.198388.1431682902778.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1721279750.1014204.1431698038181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, before I get corrected; the paddle wheel prossibly has a hall effect sensor sealed away in the unit, & just spins around without any seals. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2015, at 7:14 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, Scott, > I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garmin > http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/ > & the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad or > the Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducers > construction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi. > I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth) > The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment. > The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot through > fiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normal > boating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape. > The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma. > That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plate > I suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it to > the hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull. > I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will the > paddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics?? > cheers, Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure. >> >> BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers part of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC. I then can parse the string to get data. I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading. This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. >> >> I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> Redus Engineering >> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> >> Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of >> exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. >> I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar inside >> a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting. >> They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass. >> Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarine >> with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. >> For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 for >> plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. >> Quote from installation pdfs below...... >> As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many >> fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of >> the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar >> characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through >> the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be >> single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air >> trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the >> sonar signal from passing through. >> Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the >> boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation >> comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part >> slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. >> ......In-hull: Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times. >> In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material. >> Alan >> >> >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> >> Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. >> They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. >> Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than >> the Sinrad 2d. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > >> > Alan, >> > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. >> > Hank >> >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> >> >> From: hank pronk >> >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 15:33:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 07:33:21 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: References: <505757013.198388.1431682902778.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1721279750.1014204.1431698038181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, before I get corrected; the paddle wheel prossibly has a hall effect sensor sealed away in the unit, & just spins around without any seals. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2015, at 7:14 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, Scott, > I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garmin > http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/ > & the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad or > the Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducers > construction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi. > I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth) > The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment. > The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot through > fiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normal > boating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape. > The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma. > That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plate > I suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it to > the hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull. > I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will the > paddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics?? > cheers, Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure. >> >> BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers part of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC. I then can parse the string to get data. I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading. This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. >> >> I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> Redus Engineering >> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> >> Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of >> exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. >> I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar inside >> a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting. >> They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass. >> Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarine >> with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. >> For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 for >> plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. >> Quote from installation pdfs below...... >> As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many >> fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of >> the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar >> characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through >> the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be >> single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air >> trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the >> sonar signal from passing through. >> Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the >> boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation >> comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part >> slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. >> ......In-hull: Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times. >> In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material. >> Alan >> >> >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> >> Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. >> They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. >> Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than >> the Sinrad 2d. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > >> > Alan, >> > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. >> > Hank >> >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> >> >> From: hank pronk >> >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 15:36:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:36:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1906799369.1242644.1431718592355.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan/Hugh, I am going to be in New Zealand on business in Q4.? Maybe we should have a mini Psub convention in New Zealand. Regards Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 15:44:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:44:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <885467922.1274758.1431719083855.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?I am almost sure this is the case as the paddle wheel is has some looseness in the shaft.? also I popped the top off the? DST800 and confirmed it is fully potted.? I am pretty sure it will handle 500fsw pressure level. Cliff ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff,?before I get corrected; the paddle wheel prossibly has a hall effect?sensor sealed away in the unit, & just spins around without any seals. Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 7:14 am, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 16:58:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 20:58:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <1906799369.1242644.1431718592355.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1906799369.1242644.1431718592355.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <61645150.645456.1431723490234.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sounds great Cliff,any fixed date?Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Alan/Hugh, I am going to be in New Zealand on business in Q4.? Maybe we should have a mini Psub convention in New Zealand. Regards Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 17:16:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 21:16:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <61645150.645456.1431723490234.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <61645150.645456.1431723490234.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2035912415.1309181.1431724590691.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?I have proposed a date to client and now I am waiting on a response.? I will let you know when date gets finalized.? I would like to see your ambient boat and were you are on your design work on the 1-atm boat.? It would be good to Tag with Hugh to see where he is with his Q-Sub. Regards Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Sounds great Cliff,any fixed date?Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Alan/Hugh, I am going to be in New Zealand on business in Q4.? Maybe we should have a mini Psub convention in New Zealand. Regards Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 17:42:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 21:42:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <2035912415.1309181.1431724590691.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <61645150.645456.1431723490234.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2035912415.1309181.1431724590691.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1188720987.686410.1431726168952.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Great,look forward to the visit.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar ?I have proposed a date to client and now I am waiting on a response.? I will let you know when date gets finalized.? I would like to see your ambient boat and were you are on your design work on the 1-atm boat.? It would be good to Tag with Hugh to see where he is with his Q-Sub. Regards Cliff From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Sounds great Cliff,any fixed date?Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Alan/Hugh, I am going to be in New Zealand on business in Q4.? Maybe we should have a mini Psub convention in New Zealand. Regards Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 15 18:09:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 15:09:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma Testing Message-ID: <1431727765.58553.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Gamma has passed the in shop vacuum test and is now ready for a dive. The cart has been modified also to allow for the extra width of the ballast tanks. I welded the spider gears in the cart differential to make it posi track. It needed the extra traction badly. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 16 02:19:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 18:19:02 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <761443355.1242393.1431718373070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <761443355.1242393.1431718373070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5556e161.8566440a.2b90.ffffac0e@mx.google.com> Cliff, What is the LED housing you did? I did one as well 50 watts and 150 watts. Should compare notes. Kind regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 16 May 2015 7:33 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure. I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing. I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing. I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go. Cliff _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott, I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garmin http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/ & the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad or the Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducers construction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi. I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth) The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment. The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot through fiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normal boating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape. The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma. That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plate I suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it to the hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull. I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will the paddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics?? cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure. BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers part of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC. I then can parse the string to get data. I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading. This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar inside a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting. They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass. Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarine with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 for plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. Quote from installation pdfs below...... As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the sonar signal from passing through. Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. ......In-hull: Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times. In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material. Alan _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 18008 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 16 02:20:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 18:20:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <1906799369.1242644.1431718592355.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1906799369.1242644.1431718592355.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5556e1a9.03a1440a.58ae.ffffaa19@mx.google.com> Good idea. Sorry did not see your email before sending reply on LED. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 16 May 2015 7:37 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Alan/Hugh, I am going to be in New Zealand on business in Q4. Maybe we should have a mini Psub convention in New Zealand. Regards Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott, I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garmin http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/ & the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad or the Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducers construction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi. I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth) The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment. The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot through fiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normal boating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape. The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma. That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plate I suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it to the hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull. I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will the paddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics?? cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure. BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers part of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC. I then can parse the string to get data. I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading. This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar inside a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting. They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass. Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarine with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 for plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. Quote from installation pdfs below...... As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the sonar signal from passing through. Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. ......In-hull: Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times. In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material. Alan _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 16 14:10:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 18:10:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <5556e161.8566440a.2b90.ffffac0e@mx.google.com> References: <5556e161.8566440a.2b90.ffffac0e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1496491950.213940.1431799845972.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Your design looks great. Yes we should, we should compare notes.? ?What is the overall dimension of?your??two lights?? How many Lumens do the 50 and 150 watt lights make.? Are they Cree or Bridgelux LEDs?? I mentored some mechanical engineering students on LED light we developed.? Below is an expanded view.?? The main body housing where the fins are is?2 in OD.? These lights were made to run off? my 36 VDC main battery bank.? The custom PCB gives, a constant current to the?LED as the battery voltage drops as well as reverse polarity and over current protection.? The body is 6061-T6 aluminum that has been anodized.? They pull a little over 1 amp?of current?and put out a little over 5000 lumen with a power consumption of 30W.? We originally had 3/8 x 2"OD flat acrylic lens but have since switched to a borosilicate glass lens of the same dimensions that will give us more depth, better dimensional stability and better scratch resistance.? Team successfully tested the light in a pressure and temperature controlled test chamber down to 750 fsw.? Light can run even when not submerged though it does get hotter.? I am in the process of fitting four of these on the R300 and seven on the R500 that I am designing. For future work, I would like to take the 10,000 lumen LED light that Scott Waters has recently installed in a 1-atm housing on Trusworthy and scale this housing up to fit this LED. I would like to get a closer look at your when I am in New Zealand latter this year if we can make that happen. Regards Cliff ? From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar #yiv0033466076 -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv0033466076 filtered {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}#yiv0033466076 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0033466076 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv0033466076 p.yiv0033466076MsoNormal, #yiv0033466076 li.yiv0033466076MsoNormal, #yiv0033466076 div.yiv0033466076MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0033466076 a:link, #yiv0033466076 span.yiv0033466076MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0033466076 a:visited, #yiv0033466076 span.yiv0033466076MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0033466076 p.yiv0033466076MsoAcetate, #yiv0033466076 li.yiv0033466076MsoAcetate, #yiv0033466076 div.yiv0033466076MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv0033466076 span {}#yiv0033466076 span.yiv0033466076EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0033466076 span.yiv0033466076BalloonTextChar {}#yiv0033466076 .yiv0033466076MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv0033466076 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv0033466076 div.yiv0033466076WordSection1 {}#yiv0033466076 Cliff, What is the LED housing you did?? I did one as well 50 watts and 150 watts.? Should compare notes. ?Kind regards,Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 16 May 2015 7:33 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar ?Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure.? I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing.? I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing.? I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go. ?Cliff ? ? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar ?Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan ? Sent from my iPad ? On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? ?BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. ?I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? ?Cliff ? Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ?From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar ?Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan ? ?From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: datauri-file.png Type: image/png Size: 176546 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 16 20:42:30 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 00:42:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <761443355.1242393.1431718373070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <761443355.1242393.1431718373070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <237154432.429894.1431823350618.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,just watched a video where Doug Jackson pressure tested a LowranceSpotlight scanning transducer to 2000 psi & it was still working.Not all transducers are the same, but it does look hopeful.Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure.? I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing.? I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing.? I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go. Cliff ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 16 21:31:09 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 20:31:09 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <237154432.429894.1431823350618.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <761443355.1242393.1431718373070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <237154432.429894.1431823350618.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Got a link? Cliff Redus > On May 16, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > video where Doug Jackson pressure tested a Lowrance > Spotlight scanning transducer From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 16 23:53:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 03:53:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: References: <761443355.1242393.1431718373070.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <237154432.429894.1431823350618.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1740504062.453843.1431834794069.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,18 minutes in to this one is the test,but you may be interested in the electronics beforehand.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37DTfXOmTrw Alan ? From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Got a link? Cliff Redus > On May 16, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > video where Doug Jackson pressure tested a Lowrance > Spotlight scanning transducer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 01:53:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:53:25 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <1496491950.213940.1431799845972.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5556e161.8566440a.2b90.ffffac0e@mx.google.com> <1496491950.213940.1431799845972.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55582ce4.21cd440a.51bc.1301@mx.google.com> That light looks very nice. Pretty sure mine are not Cree. No name on them. My lenses are glass. Calcs to 500 meters plus but have not tested yet. After 10 minutes in air they get pretty warm but in water they are fine. Hugh. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 17 May 2015 6:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Your design looks great. Yes we should, we should compare notes. What is the overall dimension of your two lights? How many Lumens do the 50 and 150 watt lights make. Are they Cree or Bridgelux LEDs? I mentored some mechanical engineering students on LED light we developed. Below is an expanded view. Inline image The main body housing where the fins are is 2 in OD. These lights were made to run off my 36 VDC main battery bank. The custom PCB gives, a constant current to the LED as the battery voltage drops as well as reverse polarity and over current protection. The body is 6061-T6 aluminum that has been anodized. They pull a little over 1 amp of current and put out a little over 5000 lumen with a power consumption of 30W. We originally had 3/8 x 2"OD flat acrylic lens but have since switched to a borosilicate glass lens of the same dimensions that will give us more depth, better dimensional stability and better scratch resistance. Team successfully tested the light in a pressure and temperature controlled test chamber down to 750 fsw. Light can run even when not submerged though it does get hotter. I am in the process of fitting four of these on the R300 and seven on the R500 that I am designing. For future work, I would like to take the 10,000 lumen LED light that Scott Waters has recently installed in a 1-atm housing on Trusworthy and scale this housing up to fit this LED. I would like to get a closer look at your when I am in New Zealand latter this year if we can make that happen. Regards Cliff _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, What is the LED housing you did? I did one as well 50 watts and 150 watts. Should compare notes. Kind regards, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 16 May 2015 7:33 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure. I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing. I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing. I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go. Cliff _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Cliff, Scott, I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garmin http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/ & the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad or the Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducers construction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi. I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth) The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment. The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot through fiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normal boating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape. The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma. That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plate I suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it to the hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull. I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will the paddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics?? cheers, Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure. BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers part of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC. I then can parse the string to get data. I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading. This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com _____ From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar inside a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting. They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass. Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarine with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 for plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. Quote from installation pdfs below...... As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the sonar signal from passing through. Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. ......In-hull: Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times. In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material. Alan _____ From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 176546 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 18008 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 17:05:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 14:05:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: <20150517140553.5B29D7E1@m0005298.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 18008 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 176546 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 17:07:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 14:07:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber humidity Message-ID: <1431896836.54234.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hello, Is it normal for my scrubber to perform poorly until the humidity level inside the sub rises? Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 17:12:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 14:12:00 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <20150517140553.5B29D7E1@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1431897120.82634.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, I have sealed housings with up to 400W AC halogen lights, they work just fine under water. No need to add cooling. I can not turn them on dry because they get SOOOO hot. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/17/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 17, 2015, 5:05 PM Would it be practical to flood the led compartment with mineral oil to dissipate heat??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:53:25 +1200 That light looks very nice.Pretty sure mine are not Cree.? No name on them.? My lenses are glass.Calcs to 500 meters plus but have not tested yet.? After 10 minutes in air they get pretty warm but in water they are fine.Hugh.?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 17 May 2015 6:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights?Your design looks great. Yes we should, we should compare notes.? ?What is the overall dimension of?your??two lights?? How many Lumens do the 50 and 150 watt lights make.? Are they Cree or Bridgelux LEDs?? ?I mentored some mechanical engineering students on LED light we developed.? Below is an expanded view.?? The main body housing where the fins are is?2 in OD.? These lights were made to run off? my 36 VDC main battery bank.? The custom PCB gives, a constant current to the?LED as the battery voltage drops as well as reverse polarity and over current protection.? The body is 6061-T6 aluminum that has been anodized.? They pull a little over 1 amp?of current?and put out a little over 5000 lumen with a power consumption of 30W.? We originally had 3/8 x 2"OD flat acrylic lens but have since switched to a borosilicate glass lens of the same dimensions that will give us more depth, better dimensional stability and better scratch resistance.? Team successfully tested the light in a pressure and temperature controlled test chamber down to 750 fsw.? Light can run even when not submerged though it does get hotter.? I am in the process of fitting four of these on the R300 and seven on the R500 that I am designing.?For future work, I would like to take the 10,000 lumen LED light that Scott Waters has recently installed in a 1-atm housing on Trusworthy and scale this housing up to fit this LED.?I would like to get a closer look at your when I am in New Zealand latter this year if we can make that happen.?Regards?Cliff ???From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Cliff, What is the LED housing you did?? I did one as well 50 watts and 150 watts.? Should compare notes.?Kind regards,Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 16 May 2015 7:33 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure.? I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing.? I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing.? I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go.?Cliff?? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan? Sent from my iPad? On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote:Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? ?BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing.?I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? ?Cliff? Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ?From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan??From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 17:17:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 21:17:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <20150517140553.5B29D7E1@m0005298.ppops.net> References: <20150517140553.5B29D7E1@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <306586216.620254.1431897421933.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> For my application I am not sure how the LED element or the PCB would handle the oil. ? From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Would it be practical to flood the led compartment with mineral oil to dissipate heat??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:53:25 +1200 That light looks very nice.Pretty sure mine are not Cree.? No name on them.? My lenses are glass.Calcs to 500 meters plus but have not tested yet.? After 10 minutes in air they get pretty warm but in water they are fine.Hugh.?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 17 May 2015 6:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights?Your design looks great. Yes we should, we should compare notes.? ?What is the overall dimension of?your??two lights?? How many Lumens do the 50 and 150 watt lights make.? Are they Cree or Bridgelux LEDs?? ?I mentored some mechanical engineering students on LED light we developed.? Below is an expanded view.?? The main body housing where the fins are is?2 in OD.? These lights were made to run off? my 36 VDC main battery bank.? The custom PCB gives, a constant current to the?LED as the battery voltage drops as well as reverse polarity and over current protection.? The body is 6061-T6 aluminum that has been anodized.? They pull a little over 1 amp?of current?and put out a little over 5000 lumen with a power consumption of 30W.? We originally had 3/8 x 2"OD flat acrylic lens but have since switched to a borosilicate glass lens of the same dimensions that will give us more depth, better dimensional stability and better scratch resistance.? Team successfully tested the light in a pressure and temperature controlled test chamber down to 750 fsw.? Light can run even when not submerged though it does get hotter.? I am in the process of fitting four of these on the R300 and seven on the R500 that I am designing.?For future work, I would like to take the 10,000 lumen LED light that Scott Waters has recently installed in a 1-atm housing on Trusworthy and scale this housing up to fit this LED.?I would like to get a closer look at your when I am in New Zealand latter this year if we can make that happen.?Regards?Cliff ???From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Cliff, What is the LED housing you did?? I did one as well 50 watts and 150 watts.? Should compare notes.?Kind regards,Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 16 May 2015 7:33 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure.? I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing.? I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing.? I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go.?Cliff?? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan? Sent from my iPad? On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? ?BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing.?I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? ?Cliff? Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ?From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan??From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 176546 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 18008 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 17:30:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 15:30:28 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber humidity In-Reply-To: <1431896836.54234.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431896836.54234.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5834632e-9139-4b70-9b35-4a7f33de4589@email.android.com> Hank, the scrubber chemical reaction requires water to dissociate the compounds in the scrubber media. The reactions actually occur in aqueous solution at the granule surfaces. Most scrubber media contains some amount of water by weight as supplied, and in addition to isolation from atmospheric CO2, scrubber media ships in sealed containers to prevent it from drying out completely. As long as you are keeping your cabin humidity in the recommended range between 30% and 70% RH, humidity shouldn't be an issue as far as scrubber performance. The other thing to consider is the scrubber's temperature. The chemical reactions are more efficient at higher temperature, and if your scrubber is cold at the beginning of a dive, it will take some time to warm up to an efficient operating range. Fortunately, the scrubbing reaction itself is exothermic, which helps. Be aware though that a very warm scrubber will drive relative humidity down within the scrubber bed, so if you have quite dry cabin air to start with, a warming scrubber can drive the humidity out of the efficient operating range. Sean On May 17, 2015 3:07:16 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hello, >Is it normal for my scrubber to perform poorly until the humidity level >inside the sub rises? >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 17:58:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 21:58:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <20150517140553.5B29D7E1@m0005298.ppops.net> References: <20150517140553.5B29D7E1@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: <104702840.814082.1431899898347.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,it is a common practice to oil fill led light housings. I noticed the DualDeep Worker at Nuytco had an oil filled housing & wiring tube.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Would it be practical to flood the led compartment with mineral oil to dissipate heat??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:53:25 +1200 That light looks very nice.Pretty sure mine are not Cree.? No name on them.? My lenses are glass.Calcs to 500 meters plus but have not tested yet.? After 10 minutes in air they get pretty warm but in water they are fine.Hugh.?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, 17 May 2015 6:11 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights?Your design looks great. Yes we should, we should compare notes.? ?What is the overall dimension of?your??two lights?? How many Lumens do the 50 and 150 watt lights make.? Are they Cree or Bridgelux LEDs?? ?I mentored some mechanical engineering students on LED light we developed.? Below is an expanded view.?? The main body housing where the fins are is?2 in OD.? These lights were made to run off? my 36 VDC main battery bank.? The custom PCB gives, a constant current to the?LED as the battery voltage drops as well as reverse polarity and over current protection.? The body is 6061-T6 aluminum that has been anodized.? They pull a little over 1 amp?of current?and put out a little over 5000 lumen with a power consumption of 30W.? We originally had 3/8 x 2"OD flat acrylic lens but have since switched to a borosilicate glass lens of the same dimensions that will give us more depth, better dimensional stability and better scratch resistance.? Team successfully tested the light in a pressure and temperature controlled test chamber down to 750 fsw.? Light can run even when not submerged though it does get hotter.? I am in the process of fitting four of these on the R300 and seven on the R500 that I am designing.?For future work, I would like to take the 10,000 lumen LED light that Scott Waters has recently installed in a 1-atm housing on Trusworthy and scale this housing up to fit this LED.?I would like to get a closer look at your when I am in New Zealand latter this year if we can make that happen.?Regards?Cliff ???From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Cliff, What is the LED housing you did?? I did one as well 50 watts and 150 watts.? Should compare notes.?Kind regards,Hugh ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, 16 May 2015 7:33 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure.? I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing.? I may pop the DST800 in and do some testing.? I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully potted and such, now where for water to go.?Cliff?? ? From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Cliff, Scott,I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garminhttp://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/& the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad orthe Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducersconstruction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi.I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice operating depth)The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to experiment.The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot throughfiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't in normalboating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape.? ?The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in Oklahoma.?That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the fibreglass plateI suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & fix it tothe hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull.I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep will thepaddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's electronics??cheers, Alan? Sent from my iPad? On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? ?BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing.?I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? ?Cliff? Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ?From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar?Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan??From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles?_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 18:22:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 15:22:29 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber humidity In-Reply-To: <5834632e-9139-4b70-9b35-4a7f33de4589@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1431901349.50779.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Sean, Thank you for the explanation, that is very helpful. It might be a good idea to keep the scrubber out of the sub to keep it warm in cold weather. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/17/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber humidity To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 17, 2015, 5:30 PM Hank, the scrubber chemical reaction requires water to dissociate the compounds in the scrubber media. The reactions actually occur in aqueous solution at the granule surfaces. Most scrubber media contains some amount of water by weight as supplied, and in addition to isolation from atmospheric CO2, scrubber media ships in sealed containers to prevent it from drying out completely. As long as you are keeping your cabin humidity in the recommended range between 30% and 70% RH, humidity shouldn't be an issue as far as scrubber performance. The other thing to consider is the scrubber's temperature.? The chemical reactions are more efficient at higher temperature, and if your scrubber is cold at the beginning of a dive, it will take some time to warm up to an efficient operating range. Fortunately, the scrubbing reaction itself is exothermic, which helps. Be aware though that a very warm scrubber will drive relative humidity down within! the scrubber bed, so if you have quite dry cabin air to start with, a warming scrubber can drive the humidity out of the efficient operating range. Sean On May 17, 2015 3:07:16 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hello, Is it normal for my scrubber to perform poorly until the humidity level inside the sub rises? Hank Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 19:03:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 18:03:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: Cliff, My 10,000 lumen head light is oil compensated in mineral oil. So far has worked flawlessly and does well to dissapate heat. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/17/2015 4:17 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights For my application I am not sure how the LED element or the PCB would handle the oil. From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Would it be practical to flood the led compartment with mineral oil to dissipate heat? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 20:28:52 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 19:28:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good to know. Cliff Redus > On May 17, 2015, at 6:03 PM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > My 10,000 lumen head light is oil compensated in mineral oil. So far has worked flawlessly and does well to dissapate heat. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Date:05/17/2015 4:17 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Cc: > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > > For my application I am not sure how the LED element or the PCB would handle the oil. > > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 4:05 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > > Would it be practical to flood the led compartment with mineral oil to dissipate heat? Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 17 21:29:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 21:29:41 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <306586216.620254.1431897421933.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20150517140553.5B29D7E1@m0005298.ppops.net> <306586216.620254.1431897421933.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have two off the shelf LED lights, one filled with mineral oil and the other with Marvel Mystery Oil. Both have been filled for one year old and seem to be doing fine -- no leaks and they both still work. Best, Alec On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > For my application I am not sure how the LED element or the PCB would > handle the oil. > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2015 4:05 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > > Would it be practical to flood the led compartment with mineral oil to > dissipate heat? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:53:25 +1200 > > > > That light looks very nice. > Pretty sure mine are not Cree. No name on them. My lenses are glass. > Calcs to 500 meters plus but have not tested yet. After 10 minutes in air > they get pretty warm but in water they are fine. > Hugh. > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Sunday, 17 May 2015 6:11 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > > Your design looks great. Yes we should, we should compare notes. What is > the overall dimension of your two lights? How many Lumens do the 50 and > 150 watt lights make. Are they Cree or Bridgelux LEDs? > > I mentored some mechanical engineering students on LED light we > developed. Below is an expanded view. > > [image: Inline image] > The main body housing where the fins are is 2 in OD. These lights were > made to run off my 36 VDC main battery bank. The custom PCB gives, a > constant current to the LED as the battery voltage drops as well as reverse > polarity and over current protection. The body is 6061-T6 aluminum that > has been anodized. They pull a little over 1 amp of current and put out a > little over 5000 lumen with a power consumption of 30W. We originally had > 3/8 x 2"OD flat acrylic lens but have since switched to a borosilicate > glass lens of the same dimensions that will give us more depth, better > dimensional stability and better scratch resistance. Team successfully > tested the light in a pressure and temperature controlled test chamber down > to 750 fsw. Light can run even when not submerged though it does get > hotter. I am in the process of fitting four of these on the R300 and seven > on the R500 that I am designing. > > For future work, I would like to take the 10,000 lumen LED light that > Scott Waters has recently installed in a 1-atm housing on Trusworthy and > scale this housing up to fit this LED. > > I would like to get a closer look at your when I am in New Zealand latter > this year if we can make that happen. > > Regards > > Cliff > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:19 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Cliff, What is the LED housing you did? I did one as well 50 watts and > 150 watts. Should compare notes. > > Kind regards, > Hugh > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [ > mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, 16 May 2015 7:33 a.m. > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Still not convinced these transducers need to be protected from pressure. > I have a small test chamber I built to test my new LED housing. I may pop > the DST800 in and do some testing. I am pretty sure the DST800 is fully > potted and such, now where for water to go. > > Cliff > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2015 2:14 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Cliff, Scott, > I was looking at the panoptix forward scanning sonar from Garmin > http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/panoptix/ > & the Simrad 2D forward scan. Neither the N.Z. expert for Simrad or > the Australasian manager for Garmin could tell me about the transducers > construction & were dubious about their ability to withstand 250 psi. > I would probably want it to be pressure resistant to 500 psi (twice > operating depth) > The Simrad is about $700 & the Garmin about $1500 so don't want to > experiment. > The Simrad expert was also unsure of the 2D models ability to shoot through > fiberglass & operate effectively. These are mounted vertically so couldn't > in normal > boating applications be mounted inside the hull due to hull shape. > The Simrad transducers are designed at theTulsa Navaco office in > Oklahoma. > That's just across the border from you Cliff. An alternative to the > fibreglass plate > I suggested may be to pot the whole unit up to 1/2" thick in fiberglass & > fix it to > the hull with o-rings around the electrical through hull. > I had a look at your DST800 Cliff. It has a paddle wheel in it. How deep > will the > paddle wheel go before water will push through it's seal & into it's > electronics?? > cheers, Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 16/05/2015, at 1:53 am, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm > pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and > cab take the pressure. > > BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - > Airmar Marine Transducers part of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give > me altitude, speed and water temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII > sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial feed into a > coprocessor on my PLC. I then can parse the string to get data. I am > using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, > pitch and heading. This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized > aluminum housing. > > I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where > these fish finder sounders are cheap. > > Cliff > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of > exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. > I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking > sonar inside > a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in > water mounting. > They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar > through fiberglass. > Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front > of the submarine > with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. > For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. > Safety factor of 4 for > plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. > Quote from installation pdfs below...... > As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many > fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of > the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar > characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through > the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be > single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air > trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the > sonar signal from passing through. > Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the > boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation > comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part > slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. > ......*In-hull:* Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the > in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? > transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside > of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice > for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of > high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or > potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed > while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with > thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline > so that the transducer is in the water at all times. > In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no > foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer > can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install > inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core > material. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. > They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. > Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than > the Sinrad 2d. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Alan, > > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very > nice to have. > > Hank > >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: > >> > >> From: hank pronk > >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM > >> > >> > >> > >> > http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 176546 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 18008 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 15:26:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 20:26:26 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Seat Test Message-ID: Hi All, On Saturday I tested my dome to a depth of 61M. (200Ft). This was the deepest I could get without going miles out to sea. This was to test the epdm gasket and O ring seal I had made. Hank spooked me with a story of how a viewport he was testing extruded the epdm gasket at pressure. I wanted to be sure mine was ok. I made a dish out of the piece left over from cutting the front endcap hole for the dome and cramped it to the dome retaining ring. Put it all in a box and dumped it in the sea.... Pics here. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Modifications_files/Page1193.htm Kind Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 18:58:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 15:58:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Message-ID: <1431989882.53935.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am tired of buying battery chargers for Gamma. I think I am over using them and they go haywire. I read that I can charge my AGM's with an automotive alternator. I am thinking of building a battery charger with an alternator driven with a 1hp AC 220 V motor. The alternator has an internal regulator, so it will stop charging when the battery is full. Is there anything wrong with this idea? Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 19:05:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 18:05:19 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Message-ID: Hank, I charge my AGM's with a computerized battery charger. They cost about $65.00 at True Value Hardware. They charge at the correct rate and shut off when the charging is complete. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/18/2015 5:58 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Hi all, I am tired of buying battery chargers for Gamma. I think I am over using them and they go haywire. I read that I can charge my AGM's with an automotive alternator. I am thinking of building a battery charger with an alternator driven with a 1hp AC 220 V motor. The alternator has an internal regulator, so it will stop charging when the battery is full. Is there anything wrong with this idea? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 19:11:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 16:11:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1431990677.22224.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, I have been using the same thing and they don't last, we pay 85 dollars here. I added a couple pictures that show the ballast tanks nicely, I am sure happy with it. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 7:05 PM Hank,I charge my AGM's with a computerized battery charger. They cost about $65.00 at True Value Hardware. They charge at the correct rate and shut off when the charging is complete.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/18/2015 5:58 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Hi all, I am tired of buying battery chargers for Gamma.? I think I am over using them and they go haywire.? I read that I can charge my AGM's with an automotive alternator.? I am thinking of building a battery charger with an alternator driven with? a 1hp AC 220 V motor.? The alternator has an internal regulator, so it will stop charging when the battery is full.? Is there anything wrong with this idea? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:11:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 20:11:59 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger In-Reply-To: <1431989882.53935.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431989882.53935.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I've happily had the opposite experience, a charger that has proved absolutely bulletproof. Once I set it charging and only the next day realized battery acid had spilled all over it - and that was ten years ago. Its a "Statpower Truecharge 40+". These days I understand Statpower is called (or was bought by, or whatever) "Xantrex". It has a switch to select the type of battery, one of which is AGM, and this is important because AGMs are charged at slightly different voltages to regular ones. Cost is around 300-400, but given what AGM batteries cost, personally this is an item I don't mind investing in. Best, Alec On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 6:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi all, > I am tired of buying battery chargers for Gamma. I think I am over using > them and they go haywire. I read that I can charge my AGM's with an > automotive alternator. I am thinking of building a battery charger with an > alternator driven with a 1hp AC 220 V motor. The alternator has an > internal regulator, so it will stop charging when the battery is full. > Is there anything wrong with this idea? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:14:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 17:14:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Message-ID: <20150518171437.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.5626895064.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:19:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 00:19:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger In-Reply-To: <1431990677.22224.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431990677.22224.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <764689382.1479208.1431994771364.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, the only thing that I would be worried about is that car alternators are designed to recharge conventional lead acid car batteries.? Deep cycle AGM's are a different beast.? AGM are more susceptible to being damaged by overcharging.? Also most sophisticated battery chargers go through three distinct phases depending on the initial SOC.? With a car alternator, you are not going to get this this unless you go through a PLC and program in the charging curves. I have had good luck over the last 8 years with on onboard battery charger for AGMs that is used for electric car/truck conversions.? When my boat's main propulsion bank was 120 VDC?I used a Zivan NG3 120-18 and now that I have switched to 36 VDC bank, I use a Zivan NG3?http://www.zivanusa.com/pdf/NG3.pdf.? I have had hundreds of recharges using these rechargers with no problems.??? You can get a panel mounted ?remote display that shows were you are on the recharge.? The suppliers adjust these to match type and capacity of your AGM batteries.? They are a bit pricey but?often come up eBay. I really like being able to plug my boat into an AC receptacle and come back the next day with them fully charged having gone through a charging curve that is tuned to my AGM batteries.? For winter storage, you can leave the boat plugged in indefinitely and the system supplies a float charge again tuned to your AGM batteries.? The only negative on this system is that a battery bank is typical made of individual batteries wired in parallel and series.? This system does not have a Battery Management System (BMS) like you would have on a lithium-ion battery that controls charge on individual batteries, just he overall bank.? I have had to replace individual batteries that degraded over time.? Cliff? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Scott, I have been using the same thing and they don't last, we pay 85 dollars here. I added a couple pictures that show the ballast tanks nicely, I am sure happy with it. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 7:05 PM Hank,I charge my AGM's with a computerized battery charger. They cost about $65.00 at True Value Hardware. They charge at the correct rate and shut off when the charging is complete.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/18/2015? 5:58 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc:? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Hi all, I am tired of buying battery chargers for Gamma.? I think I am over using them and they go haywire.? I read that I can charge my AGM's with an automotive alternator.? I am thinking of building a battery charger with an alternator driven with? a 1hp AC 220 V motor.? The alternator has an internal regulator, so it will stop charging when the battery is full.? Is there anything wrong with this idea? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:20:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 17:20:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] FOR SALE Message-ID: <20150518172034.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.ee367fbcab.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:37:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 17:37:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger In-Reply-To: <764689382.1479208.1431994771364.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1431995868.48110.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks' guys, I will buy another charger, just would have been convenient to use what I have. No point risking expensive batteries. Scott, that is the identical charger I have been using. Maybe I had a dud. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 8:19 PM Hank, the only thing that I would be worried about is that car alternators are designed to recharge conventional lead acid car batteries.? Deep cycle AGM's are a different beast.? AGM are more susceptible to being damaged by overcharging.? Also most sophisticated battery chargers go through three distinct phases depending on the initial SOC.? With a car alternator, you are not going to get this this unless you go through a PLC and program in the charging curves. I have had good luck over the last 8 years with on onboard battery charger for AGMs that is used for electric car/truck conversions.? When my boat's main propulsion bank was 120 VDC?I used a Zivan NG3 120-18 and now that I have switched to 36 VDC bank, I use a Zivan NG3?http://www.zivanusa.com/pdf/NG3.pdf.? I have had hundreds of recharges using these rechargers with no problems.??? You can get a panel mounted ?remote display that shows were you are on the recharge.? The suppliers adjust these to match type and capacity of your AGM batteries.? They are a bit pricey but?often come up eBay. I really like being able to plug my boat into an AC receptacle and come back the next day with them fully charged having gone through a charging curve that is tuned to my AGM batteries.? For winter storage, you can leave the boat plugged in indefinitely and the system supplies a float charge again tuned to your AGM batteries.? The only negative on this system is that a battery bank is typical made of individual batteries wired in parallel and series.? This system does not have a Battery Management System (BMS) like you would have on a lithium-ion battery that controls charge on individual batteries, just he overall bank.? I have had to replace individual batteries that degraded over time.? Cliff? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Scott, I have been using the same thing and they don't last, we pay 85 dollars here. I added a couple pictures that show the ballast tanks nicely, I am sure happy with it. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 7:05 PM Hank,I charge my AGM's with a computerized battery charger. They cost about $65.00 at True Value Hardware. They charge at the correct rate and shut off when the charging is complete.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/18/2015? 5:58 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc:? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Hi all, I am tired of buying battery chargers for Gamma.? I think I am over using them and they go haywire.? I read that I can charge my AGM's with an automotive alternator.? I am thinking of building a battery charger with an alternator driven with? a 1hp AC 220 V motor.? The alternator has an internal regulator, so it will stop charging when the battery is full.? Is there anything wrong with this idea? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:43:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 17:43:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Message-ID: <20150518174322.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e1aceaf815.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:48:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 17:48:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: <1431996525.23132.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them. I want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome. The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long. Will the LED stuff fit inside that small space. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:51:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 17:51:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger In-Reply-To: <20150518174322.49e8347f125ba4e1b2aff75c01b07c1e.e1aceaf815.wbe@email13.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1431996664.35395.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Scott, Yup, must be it,:-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 8:43 PM Hank, ? Must have been and bought from a Home Depot instead of a True Value, hehe. I have had great luck with them. Hopefully this all helps. ? Thanks, Scott Waters? ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: Mon, May 18, 2015 5:37 pm To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Thanks' guys, I will buy another charger, just would have been convenient to use what I have. No point risking expensive batteries. Scott, that is the identical charger I have been using. Maybe I had a dud. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 8:19 PM Hank, the only thing that I would be worried about is that car alternators are designed to recharge conventional lead acid car batteries.? Deep cycle AGM's are a different beast.? AGM are more susceptible to being damaged by overcharging.? Also most sophisticated battery chargers go through three distinct phases depending on the initial SOC.? With a car alternator, you are not going to get this this unless you go through a PLC and program in the charging curves. I have had good luck over the last 8 years with on onboard battery charger for AGMs that is used for electric car/truck conversions.? When my boat's main propulsion bank was 120 VDC?I used a Zivan NG3 120-18 and now that I have switched to 36 VDC bank, I use a Zivan NG3?http://www.zivanusa.com/pdf/NG3.pdf.? I have had hundreds of recharges using these rechargers with no problems.??? You can get a panel mounted ?remote display that shows were you are on the recharge.? The suppliers adjust these to match type and capacity of your AGM batteries.? They are a bit pricey but?often come up eBay. I really like being able to plug my boat into an AC receptacle and come back the next day with them fully charged having gone through a charging curve that is tuned to my AGM batteries.? For winter storage, you can leave the boat plugged in indefinitely and the system supplies a float charge again tuned to your AGM batteries.? The only negative on this system is that a battery bank is typical made of individual batteries wired in parallel and series.? This system does not have a Battery Management System (BMS) like you would have on a lithium-ion battery that controls charge on individual batteries, just he overall bank.? I have had to replace individual batteries that degraded over time.? Cliff? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Scott, I have been using the same thing and they don't last, we pay 85 dollars here. I added a couple pictures that show the ballast tanks nicely, I am sure happy with it. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 7:05 PM Hank,I charge my AGM's with a computerized battery charger. They cost about $65.00 at True Value Hardware. They charge at the correct rate and shut off when the charging is complete.Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/18/2015? 5:58 PM? (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc:? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Hi all, I am tired of buying battery chargers for Gamma.? I think I am over using them and they go haywire.? I read that I can charge my AGM's with an automotive alternator.? I am thinking of building a battery charger with an alternator driven with? a 1hp AC 220 V motor.? The alternator has an internal regulator, so it will stop charging when the battery is full.? Is there anything wrong with this idea? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:56:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 19:56:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <1431996525.23132.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431996525.23132.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <510486D3-64A2-4C00-92EB-A27098F5AB62@sbcglobal.net> Diameter is going to be to small for the LED I used and PCB. Cliff > On May 18, 2015, at 7:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them. I want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome. The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long. Will the LED stuff fit inside that small space. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 20:58:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 17:58:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <510486D3-64A2-4C00-92EB-A27098F5AB62@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1431997114.18759.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, What is the PCB and can't it go in the sub? Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 8:56 PM Diameter is going to be to small for the LED I used and PCB. Cliff > On May 18, 2015, at 7:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them.? I want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome.? The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long.? Will the LED stuff fit inside that small space. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 21:08:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 20:08:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <1431997114.18759.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431997114.18759.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: PCB - Printed circuit board. Led panel needs to be driven by constant current led driver or when the battery bank voltage drops the light dims slowly. PCB also has cross polarity protection and a fuse. Yes you could move this into an electrical box in the boat but most designers prefer to have the electronics self contained. Do a google on Cree and bridgelux LEDs. Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 18, 2015, at 7:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Cliff, > What is the PCB and can't it go in the sub? > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 5/18/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 8:56 PM > > Diameter is going to be > to small for the LED I used and PCB. > > Cliff > > > >> On May 18, 2015, at 7:48 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I > know nothing about them. I want to put them inside my > Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome. The glass > housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long. Will the > LED stuff fit inside that small space. > Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 21:13:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 18:13:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1431997994.1181.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Cliff, Will do, thank you. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 9:08 PM PCB - Printed circuit board.? Led panel needs to be driven by constant current led driver or when the battery bank voltage drops the light dims slowly.? PCB also has cross polarity protection and a fuse.? Yes you could move this into an electrical box in the boat but most designers prefer to have the electronics self contained.? Do a google on Cree and bridgelux LEDs.? Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 18, 2015, at 7:58 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Cliff, > What is the PCB and can't it go in the sub? > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 5/18/15, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 8:56 PM > > Diameter is going to be > to small for the LED I used and PCB. > > Cliff > > > >> On May 18, 2015, at 7:48 > PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I > know nothing about them.? I want to put them inside my > Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome.? The glass > housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long.? Will the > LED stuff fit inside that small space. > Hank > _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 21:38:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 21:38:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <510486D3-64A2-4C00-92EB-A27098F5AB62@sbcglobal.net> References: <1431996525.23132.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <510486D3-64A2-4C00-92EB-A27098F5AB62@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Same here, my lights are a flat array of LEDs, so not something that would lend itself to a narrow cylinder. Most LED lights seem to take that approach. PCB = printed circuit board. Alec On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Diameter is going to be to small for the LED I used and PCB. > > Cliff > > > > > On May 18, 2015, at 7:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them. I > want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are > awesome. The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long. Will > the LED stuff fit inside that small space. > > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 21:41:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 18:41:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1431999674.55837.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Just looking on ebay and there are plenty of bulbs that will fit but don't have the brightness. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 9:38 PM Same here, my lights are a flat array of LEDs, so not something that would lend itself to a narrow cylinder. Most LED lights seem to take that approach. PCB = printed circuit board. Alec On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Diameter is going to be to small for the LED I used and PCB. Cliff > On May 18, 2015, at 7:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them.? I want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome.? The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long.? Will the LED stuff fit inside that small space. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 23:16:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 03:16:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Seat Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1068936484.1957963.1432005389672.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks James,looks a pretty good support boat you have commandeered.Alan From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:26 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Seat Test Hi All,?On Saturday I tested my dome to a depth of 61M.? (200Ft).? This was the deepest I could get without going miles out to sea. This was to test the epdm gasket and O ring seal I had made.? Hank spooked me with a story of how a viewport he was testing extruded the epdm gasket at pressure.? I wanted to be sure mine was ok.? I made a dish out of the piece left over from cutting the front endcap hole for the dome and cramped it to the dome retaining ring.? Put it all in a box and dumped it in the sea....?Pics here.? ?http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Modifications_files/Page1193.htm?Kind RegardsJames?? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 23:30:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 03:30:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <1431999674.55837.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1431999674.55837.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1729067043.1998997.1432006201624.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,have a look at deal extreme.http://www.dx.com/c/lights-lighting-1399 There are literally 10s of thousands of options to get through.Best to use the sub menus. Car headlights, bike lights, outdoor lights, spare parts.You can build your own from the spare parts. The outdoor lighting gives some 24V?options. They have a search engine which comes in handy.Free delivery, but it takes a few weeks.Alan ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Just looking on ebay and there are plenty of bulbs that will fit but don't have the brightness.? Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 9:38 PM Same here, my lights are a flat array of LEDs, so not something that would lend itself to a narrow cylinder. Most LED lights seem to take that approach. PCB = printed circuit board. Alec On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Diameter is going to be to small for the LED I used and PCB. Cliff > On May 18, 2015, at 7:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all, > I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them.? I want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome.? The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long.? Will the LED stuff fit inside that small space. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 18 23:35:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 22:35:23 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: Hank,? My lights have all been upgraded to LED since the original build and starting with halogen. I have four flood lights (same as Alec) that we $70 each from a off roading truck supplyer. They are flat 9 led 2150 lumen flood lights that I patiently filled with mineral oil. They are cheap and work awesome. You can see what they look like on my project page (and no there is no light around in the one pic, that really is comming from just the sub). My headlight is a cheap under water fountian light caseing with focus lense that I replaced with a 10,000 lumen bridgelux array for $28 and filled with mineral oil. I burn very very little power, put out tons of light and for very little money.? Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/18/2015 7:48 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Hi all, I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them. I want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome. The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long. Will the LED stuff fit inside that small space. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 00:50:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 04:50:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <674909005.2054090.1432011001760.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,if you do decide to go oil filled led.?You can run your?wiring through clear plastic tube filled with oil; then thetube will squeeze in rather than the lense breaking ifthere are any air voids left in the housing. (but you probably knew that)Alan From: "swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Hank,?My lights have all been upgraded to LED since the original build and starting with halogen. I have four flood lights (same as Alec) that we $70 each from a off roading truck supplyer. They are flat 9 led 2150 lumen flood lights that I patiently filled with mineral oil. They are cheap and work awesome. You can see what they look like on my project page (and no there is no light around in the one pic, that really is comming from just the sub). My headlight is a cheap under water fountian light caseing with focus lense that I replaced with a 10,000 lumen bridgelux array for $28 and filled with mineral oil. I burn very very little power, put out tons of light and for very little money.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/18/2015 7:48 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Hi all, I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them.? I want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome.? The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long.? Will the LED stuff fit inside that small space. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 04:39:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:39:55 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Seat Test In-Reply-To: <1068936484.1957963.1432005389672.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1068936484.1957963.1432005389672.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: always good to know people at the harbour! On 19 May 2015 at 04:16, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks James, > looks a pretty good support boat you have commandeered. > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* "personal_submersibles at psubs.org" > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:26 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dome Seat Test > > Hi All, > > On Saturday I tested my dome to a depth of 61M. (200Ft). This was the > deepest I could get without going miles out to sea. > > This was to test the epdm gasket and O ring seal I had made. Hank spooked > me with a story of how a viewport he was testing extruded the epdm gasket > at pressure. I wanted to be sure mine was ok. > > I made a dish out of the piece left over from cutting the front endcap > hole for the dome and cramped it to the dome retaining ring. Put it all in > a box and dumped it in the sea.... > > Pics here. > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Modifications_files/Page1193.htm > > Kind Regards > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 07:13:59 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 04:13:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1432034039.33945.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Thanks' for the info guys, I think I will put 4,000 lumen corn light bulbs in my housings, just because they are there already. I won't feel like I wasted my money on the housings :-). I will copy Alec's and Scott's light system for the front viewing. Gamma had 12 lights originally, they burned 72 amps total at 24V. The motor drives the sub at 70 amps 24V. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/18/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 11:35 PM Hank,?My lights have all been upgraded to LED since the original build and starting with halogen. I have four flood lights (same as Alec) that we $70 each from a off roading truck supplyer. They are flat 9 led 2150 lumen flood lights that I patiently filled with mineral oil. They are cheap and work awesome. You can see what they look like on my project page (and no there is no light around in the one pic, that really is comming from just the sub). My headlight is a cheap under water fountian light caseing with focus lense that I replaced with a 10,000 lumen bridgelux array for $28 and filled with mineral oil. I burn very very little power, put out tons of light and for very little money.?Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/18/2015 7:48 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Cc: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Hi all, I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about them.? I want to put them inside my Benthos light fixtures because they are awesome.? The glass housing is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long.? Will the LED stuff fit inside that small space. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 07:51:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 23:51:23 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <1432034039.33945.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432034039.33945.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, just watched this revue of a 108 led corn cob light bulb. The guy pulls it apart & it has a big electrolitic capacitor in it. This will crush under pressure. The led lights I've had haven't had these. It might be something they use when running multiple leds. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKUEgnLpeQo So watch out, it may not be suitable for oil compensation. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/05/2015, at 11:13 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks' for the info guys, I think I will put 4,000 lumen corn light bulbs in my housings, just because they are there already. I won't feel like I wasted my money on the housings :-). I will copy Alec's and Scott's light system for the front viewing. > Gamma had 12 lights originally, they burned 72 amps total at 24V. The motor drives the sub at 70 amps 24V. > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 5/18/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 11:35 PM > > Hank, My > lights have all been upgraded to LED since the original > build and starting with halogen. I have four flood lights > (same as Alec) that we $70 each from a off roading truck > supplyer. They are flat 9 led 2150 lumen flood lights that I > patiently filled with mineral oil. They are cheap and work > awesome. You can see what they look like on my project page > (and no there is no light around in the one pic, that really > is comming from just the sub). My headlight is a cheap under > water fountian light caseing with focus lense that I > replaced with a 10,000 lumen bridgelux array for $28 and > filled with mineral oil. I burn very very little power, put > out tons of light and for very little > money. Thanks,Scott > Waters > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > Date:05/18/2015 7:48 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Cc: > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > > Hi all, > I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about > them. I want to put them inside my Benthos light > fixtures because they are awesome. The glass housing > is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long. Will the LED > stuff fit inside that small space. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 08:20:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 05:20:45 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1432038045.57884.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I will put the bulbs inside my existing pressure housings. I have three old school Benthos deep sea lights. I have a picture of one on my page, they are amazing and plug right into Gamma. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 5/19/15, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Tuesday, May 19, 2015, 7:51 AM Hank, just watched this revue of a 108 led corn cob light bulb. The guy pulls it apart & it has a big electrolitic capacitor in it. This will crush under pressure. The led lights I've had haven't had these. It might be something they use when running multiple leds. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKUEgnLpeQo So watch out, it may not be suitable for oil compensation. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 19/05/2015, at 11:13 pm, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks' for the info guys, I think I will put 4,000 lumen corn light bulbs in my housings, just because they are there already.? I won't feel like I wasted my money on the housings :-).? I will copy Alec's? and Scott's? light system for the front viewing.? > Gamma had 12 lights originally, they burned 72 amps total at 24V.? The motor drives the sub at 70 amps 24V.? > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 5/18/15, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Monday, May 18, 2015, 11:35 PM > > Hank, My > lights have all been upgraded to LED since the original > build and starting with halogen. I have four flood lights > (same as Alec) that we $70 each from a off roading truck > supplyer. They are flat 9 led 2150 lumen flood lights that I > patiently filled with mineral oil. They are cheap and work > awesome. You can see what they look like on my project page > (and no there is no light around in the one pic, that really > is comming from just the sub). My headlight is a cheap under > water fountian light caseing with focus lense that I > replaced with a 10,000 lumen bridgelux array for $28 and > filled with mineral oil. I burn very very little power, put > out tons of light and for very little > money. Thanks,Scott > Waters > > Sent > from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > Date:05/18/2015? 7:48 PM? (GMT-06:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Cc:? > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > > Hi all, > I want to upgrade my lights to LED and I know nothing about > them.? I want to put them inside my Benthos light > fixtures because they are awesome.? The glass housing > is about 1.25 in ID and about 6 in long.? Will the LED > stuff fit inside that small space. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 09:23:11 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:23:11 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <555B393F.9020403@psubs.org> Scott, From your photos it looks like you have the 16 led model that puts out 3120 lumens. Jon On 5/18/2015 11:35 PM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > My lights have all been upgraded to LED since the original build and > starting with halogen. I have four flood lights (same as Alec) that we > $70 each from a off roading truck supplyer. They are flat 9 led 2150 > lumen flood lights that I patiently filled with mineral oil. They are > cheap and work awesome. You can see what they look like on my project > page (and no there is no light around in the one pic, that really is > comming from just the sub). My headlight is a cheap under water > fountian light caseing with focus lense that I replaced with a 10,000 > lumen bridgelux array for $28 and filled with mineral oil. I burn very > very little power, put out tons of light and for very little money. > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 10:09:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (swaters@waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:09:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: Jon, Yea, you are right. It is the same as Alecs. Thanks, Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Date:05/19/2015 8:23 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Scott, From your photos it looks like you have the 16 led model that puts out 3120 lumens. Jon On 5/18/2015 11:35 PM, swaters at waters-ks.com via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, My lights have all been upgraded to LED since the original build and starting with halogen. I have four flood lights (same as Alec) that we $70 each from a off roading truck supplyer. They are flat 9 led 2150 lumen flood lights that I patiently filled with mineral oil. They are cheap and work awesome. You can see what they look like on my project page (and no there is no light around in the one pic, that really is comming from just the sub). My headlight is a cheap under water fountian light caseing with focus lense that I replaced with a 10,000 lumen bridgelux array for $28 and filled with mineral oil. I burn very very little power, put out tons of light and for very little money. Thanks, Scott Waters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 10:51:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 07:51:08 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] torque on a flap Message-ID: <20150519075108.683756AB@m0005298.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 12:24:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 10:24:25 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] torque on a flap In-Reply-To: <20150519075108.683756AB@m0005298.ppops.net> References: <20150519075108.683756AB@m0005298.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian - what is the shape? Flat plate or foil? Stalled or laminar flow? Do you want torque about a parallel or transverse axis? Cavitation or ventilation occurring? Lots of variables to constrain here. Sean On May 19, 2015 8:51:08 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hi everybody, > >Does anybody know how to calculate the amount of torque on one Square >foot of a flap going through the water at a 45 degree angle at a given >amount of speed ? > > > >Brian > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 13:06:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 10:06:56 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] torque on a flap Message-ID: <20150519100656.697DE40E@m0048137.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 19:16:55 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 16:16:55 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger Message-ID: <1432077415.68619.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Alec, I took your advice and bought the most expensive smart charger in the store, 300 dollars. This thing does 12 or 24V and detects the type of battery your charging. I think it will send me an email when charging is complete :-). The nice part is the 24V feature, Gamma has a nice charging receptacle for each bank. Now I can use original charge port and walk away. New tires can wait,lol. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 21:49:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 18:49:06 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Message-ID: <20150519184906.6DA55A87@m0005312.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 21:53:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 21:53:32 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] agm charger In-Reply-To: <1432077415.68619.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432077415.68619.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341AF78D-BDBC-477E-8093-B51D38F0911C@gmail.com> Hah, that "plug in and walk away" thing is what I like best, and I think Cliff mentioned it too. But you have me beat with the emails! > On May 19, 2015, at 7:16 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alec, > I took your advice and bought the most expensive smart charger in the store, 300 dollars. This thing does 12 or 24V and detects the type of battery your charging. I think it will send me an email when charging is complete :-). > The nice part is the 24V feature, Gamma has a nice charging receptacle for each bank. Now I can use original charge port and walk away. New tires can wait,lol. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 21:55:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 21:55:29 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress In-Reply-To: <20150519184906.6DA55A87@m0005312.ppops.net> References: <20150519184906.6DA55A87@m0005312.ppops.net> Message-ID: <78E83E82-AD6E-4074-93E2-26CD57E12620@gmail.com> That's a lot of progress Brian! > On May 19, 2015, at 9:49 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here are some pictures I put up on the web site: > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567812/pressurehull/ > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 23:25:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 03:25:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress In-Reply-To: <20150519184906.6DA55A87@m0005312.ppops.net> References: <20150519184906.6DA55A87@m0005312.ppops.net> Message-ID: <971529097.3043825.1432092305320.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Pretty solid looking pressure hull Brian.It doesn't look like your model, which has a cylindrical hull.Are you making ballast tanks to go around the pressure hull, because it looks like you willtilt from stern to bow when on the surface.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 1:49 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Here are some pictures I put up on the web site:?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567812/pressurehull/?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 19 23:33:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 20:33:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Message-ID: <20150519203346.6EA4F7A2@m0005297.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 00:26:15 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 04:26:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress In-Reply-To: <20150519203346.6EA4F7A2@m0005297.ppops.net> References: <20150519203346.6EA4F7A2@m0005297.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1968106064.3067760.1432095975611.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,what do you mean you don't "think" it will be. Is there some way you can model thisor calculate it? Wondering if you have free flooding holes in the bottom of your ballasttank, & where they are placed? Just in case you get on such an angle that air just burps out& you end up like this Chinese gentleman.Chinese Farmer Builds Himself A Submarine | ? | | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Chinese Farmer Builds Himself A Submarine | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Hi Alan,????????????????? I know it looks like it would be heavy in the rear but I don't think it will be.? I've got lots of ballast in the front body - about 128 cubic ft. ?brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 03:25:05 +0000 (UTC) Pretty solid looking pressure hull Brian.It doesn't look like your model, which has a cylindrical hull.Are you making ballast tanks to go around the pressure hull, because it looks like you willtilt from stern to bow when on the surface.Alan From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: PSubs Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 1:49 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Here are some pictures I put up on the web site:?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567812/pressurehull/?Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 01:23:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 22:23:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Message-ID: <20150519222303.6EA4F91A@m0005297.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 01:32:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 22:32:33 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress In-Reply-To: <20150519184906.6DA55A87@m0005312.ppops.net> References: <20150519184906.6DA55A87@m0005312.ppops.net> Message-ID: <00f301d092be$60618630$21249290$@telus.net> Looks great, Brian. Well on road to completion. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May-19-15 6:49 PM To: PSubs Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Here are some pictures I put up on the web site: http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567812/pressurehull/ Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 08:14:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 05:14:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress In-Reply-To: <20150519184906.6DA55A87@m0005312.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1432124062.13462.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Brian, Wow that is a nice looking pressure hull. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 5/19/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress To: "PSubs" Received: Tuesday, May 19, 2015, 9:49 PM Here are some pictures I put up on the web site:?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567812/pressurehull/?Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 11:52:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 11:52:03 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Message-ID: <555CADA3.4020605@psubs.org> At first glance the MK-101 shell looks pretty thin. I know they've been drilled and tapped to accomplish oil compensation but before I start I just want to know of any tips/tricks I should be aware of. Also, any reason nobody has drilled and tapped at the apex of the head on the end opposite the propeller? Most every one has drilled in the cylinder body. Jon From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 12:08:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 16:08:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <555CADA3.4020605@psubs.org> References: <555CADA3.4020605@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1211568520.2727436.1432138084440.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon, when you take the MK 101 apart you will see why no one has drilled the apex cap.? The cap is an aluminum casting that has a support boss right at the apex that holds the roller bearing and bushing for the motor axle.? As I elected not to drill the housing I can't comment on preferred location.?The body of the housing has the permanent magnets but there is room between the magnets for a port.? You would have to position the port so it does not interfere with the long bolts that hold all the parts together.? The assembly comes apart very easily.? Just keep track of were everything goes. Regards Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 10:52 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap At first glance the MK-101 shell looks pretty thin.? I know they've been drilled and tapped to accomplish oil compensation but before I start I just want to know of any tips/tricks I should be aware of. Also, any reason nobody has drilled and tapped at the apex of the head on the end opposite the propeller?? Most every one has drilled in the cylinder body. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 12:17:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 17:17:31 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <555CADA3.4020605@psubs.org> References: <555CADA3.4020605@psubs.org> Message-ID: Hi Jon, I drilled into the cap. Not right at the end, but a little further along the "top". At first I did it at the sides like Alec has his, with a tube connecting the two. However, the way I did it, I had problems. I used 90 degree elbows tapped in between the magnets like Cliff has just said. However, they poke through, just a tiny bit. This meant that it was really really difficult to get the last dregs of air out. It was always trapped behind this inside lip. Maybe if you had the elbow threads on the inside completely flush, you wouldn't have this problem. I cant comment on that as mine stick through a bit. So, after getting fed up with them, I drilled vent holes in the caps which are sealed with a bolt and rubber gasket. So, I can tip the motors and get all the air out. So, ive sort of got the "round the side" pipe like Alec has, along with this vent hole to get the last bit of air out. It works much better. I would think that you could probably just have a pipe on the rear part, but then if you have an elbow attached, you may get the same problem as I had to start with. I don't have any pictures of it, but I can take some tomorrow for you if you like. Kind Regards James On 20 May 2015 at 16:52, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > At first glance the MK-101 shell looks pretty thin. I know they've been > drilled and tapped to accomplish oil compensation but before I start I just > want to know of any tips/tricks I should be aware of. Also, any reason > nobody has drilled and tapped at the apex of the head on the end opposite > the propeller? Most every one has drilled in the cylinder body. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 12:32:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 12:32:25 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1211568520.2727436.1432138084440.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <555CADA3.4020605@psubs.org> <1211568520.2727436.1432138084440.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually on the new boat I've drilled and tapped the apex cap. It came out nicely, I plug it with a little SS allen screw that has an NPT thread on it, so the result is completely flush. Note this is just for filling. I'm using a little plastic bellows as a compensating volume, and that is tapped into a custom attachment for the motor, not into the motor itself. But it could go just where Cliff indicates, or even on the shaft itself. Best, Alec On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, when you take the MK 101 apart you will see why no one has drilled > the apex cap. The cap is an aluminum casting that has a support boss right > at the apex that holds the roller bearing and bushing for the motor axle. > As I elected not to drill the housing I can't comment on preferred > location. The body of the housing has the permanent magnets but there is > room between the magnets for a port. You would have to position the port > so it does not interfere with the long bolts that hold all the parts > together. The assembly comes apart very easily. Just keep track of were > everything goes. > > Regards > > Cliff > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2015 10:52 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > At first glance the MK-101 shell looks pretty thin. I know they've been > drilled and tapped to accomplish oil compensation but before I start I > just want to know of any tips/tricks I should be aware of. Also, any > reason nobody has drilled and tapped at the apex of the head on the end > opposite the propeller? Most every one has drilled in the cylinder body. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 13:02:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 17:02:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I like the idea of the small SS set screw on the cap apex ?for filling and venting.? Must be small enough not to interfere with the front of the motor shaft.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually on the new boat I've drilled and tapped the apex cap. It came out nicely, I plug it with a little SS allen screw that has an NPT thread on it, so the result is completely flush. Note this is just for filling. I'm using a little plastic bellows as a compensating volume, and that is tapped into a custom attachment for the motor, not into the motor itself. But it could go just where Cliff indicates, or even on the shaft itself. Best, Alec On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, when you take the MK 101 apart you will see why no one has drilled the apex cap.? The cap is an aluminum casting that has a support boss right at the apex that holds the roller bearing and bushing for the motor axle.? As I elected not to drill the housing I can't comment on preferred location.?The body of the housing has the permanent magnets but there is room between the magnets for a port.? You would have to position the port so it does not interfere with the long bolts that hold all the parts together.? The assembly comes apart very easily.? Just keep track of were everything goes. Regards Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 10:52 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap At first glance the MK-101 shell looks pretty thin.? I know they've been drilled and tapped to accomplish oil compensation but before I start I just want to know of any tips/tricks I should be aware of. Also, any reason nobody has drilled and tapped at the apex of the head on the end opposite the propeller?? Most every one has drilled in the cylinder body. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 13:16:39 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 10:16:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jon, I am using a tapped shaft tube that is very similar to Cliffs assembly on my MK101, but also incorporates the external tube assembly like Alex's had on the Snoopy. I do like the idea of the set screw as secondary fill port. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I like the idea of the small SS set screw on the cap apex for filling and > venting. Must be small enough not to interfere with the front of the motor > shaft. > > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2015 11:32 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Actually on the new boat I've drilled and tapped the apex cap. It came out > nicely, I plug it with a little SS allen screw that has an NPT thread on > it, so the result is completely flush. Note this is just for filling. I'm > using a little plastic bellows as a compensating volume, and that is tapped > into a custom attachment for the motor, not into the motor itself. But it > could go just where Cliff indicates, or even on the shaft itself. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Jon, when you take the MK 101 apart you will see why no one has drilled > the apex cap. The cap is an aluminum casting that has a support boss right > at the apex that holds the roller bearing and bushing for the motor axle. > As I elected not to drill the housing I can't comment on preferred > location. The body of the housing has the permanent magnets but there is > room between the magnets for a port. You would have to position the port > so it does not interfere with the long bolts that hold all the parts > together. The assembly comes apart very easily. Just keep track of were > everything goes. > > Regards > > Cliff > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2015 10:52 AM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > At first glance the MK-101 shell looks pretty thin. I know they've been > drilled and tapped to accomplish oil compensation but before I start I > just want to know of any tips/tricks I should be aware of. Also, any > reason nobody has drilled and tapped at the apex of the head on the end > opposite the propeller? Most every one has drilled in the cylinder body. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 13:47:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 13:47:47 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 14:09:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 14:09:00 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> Message-ID: That would be a function of whether the volume of air compares to the compressibility on the reservoir. If you're using a tube for flex, the bubbles should be less than the volume the hose can compress. If you rock the motor back and forth and turn the shaft, you should be able to eliminate all air with about 10-15 small additions of oil. Try using a syringe. Best, Alec > On May 20, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 15:30:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 19:30:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1639600925.3677729.1432150221872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 16:43:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 15:43:43 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1639600925.3677729.1432150221872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> <1639600925.3677729.1432150221872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1057D096-9248-4EAE-983B-24344139811B@sbcglobal.net> Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation. If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. Cliff Redus > On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, > the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out, > & put a regulator in the system that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure. > This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting every > last drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated. > There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it. > Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:) > Alan > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction > of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of > the motor housing, is it? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 17:17:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 21:17:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1057D096-9248-4EAE-983B-24344139811B@sbcglobal.net> References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> <1639600925.3677729.1432150221872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1057D096-9248-4EAE-983B-24344139811B@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation. ?If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 17:49:04 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 21:49:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal In-Reply-To: <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> <1639600925.3677729.1432150221872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1057D096-9248-4EAE-983B-24344139811B@sbcglobal.net> <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1127565026.3878213.1432158544213.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below (substitute air side with water side)will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct?In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of thelips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventuallythe pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring pressure,but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it ?willmaintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth changes.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation. ?If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 19:07:42 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 23:07:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1147376608.3067384.1432163262056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation. ?If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 19:21:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 23:21:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal In-Reply-To: <1127565026.3878213.1432158544213.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1127565026.3878213.1432158544213.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <918548890.3051056.1432164109526.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?Alan, if I understand you, I think you have this backward for oil compensation.? The area on the figure that says front chamfer should be facing the sea water so that a higher external pressure causes the area around the garter spring to compress.? When oil in the motor expands due to temperature, it is vented to the flexible?bladder and not out past the lips seal.? If bladder is soft, then the pressure inside the motor should be approximately the same as the ambient water pressure regardless of depth. For air compensation in which your regulator is set say 4 psi above ambient water pressure, then you would want to reverse the orientation of the lip seals so the?higher internal pressure tends to tighten the seal. The lip seals on the MK101 come with the front chamfer faces the sea water. Got to run.? Cliff ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below (substitute air side with water side)will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct?In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of thelips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventuallythe pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring pressure,but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it ?willmaintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth changes.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation. ?If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 19:25:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 16:25:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal In-Reply-To: <1127565026.3878213.1432158544213.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1432164338.92972.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, The compensation bladder (hose) will squeeze and force the wedge tight or rather keep it the same as the water pressure. The spring is still creating the seal. Inside and outside are the same as if it were not even under water. I think :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/20/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, May 20, 2015, 5:49 PM While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below (substitute air side with water side)will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct?In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of thelips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventuallythe pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring pressure,but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it ?willmaintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth changes.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation. ?If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 19:27:13 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 19:27:13 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal In-Reply-To: <1127565026.3878213.1432158544213.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> <1639600925.3677729.1432150221872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1057D096-9248-4EAE-983B-24344139811B@sbcglobal.net> <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1127565026.3878213.1432158544213.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, if the interior of the motor is in-compressible (as in liquid filled) there is no pressure differential. It's only the pressure *differential* that counts. There is no push from either side, and you could go to any pressure you like without the seal lifting. Best, Alec On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below > (substitute air side with water side) > will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct? > In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of the > lips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventually > the pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring > pressure, > but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it > will > maintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth > changes. > Alan > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Cliff, > how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS > method. > Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube? > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure > compensation. If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or > this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. > > > Cliff Redus > > > > On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Jon, > the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going > to test out, > & put a regulator in the system that is set it to around 4psi internal > overpressure. > This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting every > last drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run > it air compensated. > There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to > replace it. > Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:) > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction > of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of > the motor housing, is it? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 20:20:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 20:20:31 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1147376608.3067384.1432163262056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1147376608.3067384.1432163262056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <555D24CF.7000403@psubs.org> Cliff, a lot of threads on the MK101 to Subconn adapter. How are you going to handle wire twisting when you screw in the adapter...pre-twist in the opposite direction? On 5/20/2015 7:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil. No holes in housing. On > the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" > tubing with Swagelok compression fitting. I will connect to this port. > > Cliff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 22:18:23 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 02:18:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <555D24CF.7000403@psubs.org> References: <555D24CF.7000403@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1744297771.3137008.1432174703940.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Jon what I did was?accept the fact that the wires would twist.? What I did not want was the threads in the adapter to cut the wire insulation.? So what I did was get some oversized 1/2" heat shrink insulation and shrink it around the penetrator wires.? This ended up making a nice thick wear band.? The pigtails on the Subconn penetrators were about an inch longer than needed even after twisting.? Was able to connected these to the brushes by reusing the spade connectors that come with the motor.? I soldered just in case.? All this assembled just fine.? I used marine grade threadlok to seal between the adapter and housing.? I have all the thrusters now assembled on back on the boat.? Just finished repainting the interior and exterior.? After I get back from an overseas consulting job, I will start putting all the?equipment back in the boat. Cliff From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff, a lot of threads on the MK101 to Subconn adapter.? How are you going to handle wire twisting when you screw in the adapter...pre-twist in the opposite direction? On 5/20/2015 7:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 22:32:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 02:32:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal In-Reply-To: References: <1959375110.2795658.1432141362981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <555CC8C3.5010702@psubs.org> <1639600925.3677729.1432150221872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1057D096-9248-4EAE-983B-24344139811B@sbcglobal.net> <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1127565026.3878213.1432158544213.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1622962679.4036450.1432175556484.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alec is kind of understanding me.On the microscopic level, at the very point of the V where it touches the propeller shaft,there must be a slight lifting with increased pressure from depth, due to pressure from water?& oil from oposing sides pushing on the V of the seal & squeezing it up. This lifting will occur?untill the oil & water actually meet.This may cause mixing of the two with the shafts rotational speed.?However I am assuming that with this simple type of rotary shaft seal, the oil pressure (or water depending on the seal orientation)?which would be in the cavity above the spring, would counteract this, leaving a consistant pressure on the?shaft regardless of depth.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal Alan, if the interior of the motor is in-compressible (as in liquid filled) there is no pressure differential. It's only the pressure differential that counts. There is no push from either side, and you could go to any pressure you like without the seal lifting. Best, Alec On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below (substitute air side with water side)will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct?In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of thelips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventuallythe pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring pressure,but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it ?willmaintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth changes.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 20 22:56:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 16:56:20 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1147376608.3067384.1432163262056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1905474129.3866164.1432156641498.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1147376608.3067384.1432163262056.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Any pictures Cliff? Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil. No holes in housing. On the > SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with > Swagelok compression fitting. I will connect to this port. > > Cliff > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Cliff, > how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS > method. > Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube? > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure > compensation. If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or > this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. > > > Cliff Redus > > > > On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Jon, > the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going > to test out, > & put a regulator in the system that is set it to around 4psi internal > overpressure. > This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting every > last drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run > it air compensated. > There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to > replace it. > Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:) > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction > of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of > the motor housing, is it? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 08:17:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 05:17:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal In-Reply-To: <1622962679.4036450.1432175556484.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1432210646.91074.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Your forgetting the spring, that is what is doing the work because the pressure is the same on both sides including the areas above and in front of the v area. The area above the V does provide pressure on the shaft IF there is a pressure differential with the higher pressure being above the V. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/20/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, May 20, 2015, 10:32 PM Alec is kind of understanding me.On the microscopic level, at the very point of the V where it touches the propeller shaft,there must be a slight lifting with increased pressure from depth, due to pressure from water?& oil from oposing sides pushing on the V of the seal & squeezing it up. This lifting will occur?untill the oil & water actually meet.This may cause mixing of the two with the shafts rotational speed.?However I am assuming that with this simple type of rotary shaft seal, the oil pressure (or water depending on the seal orientation)?which would be in the cavity above the spring, would counteract this, leaving a consistant pressure on the?shaft regardless of depth.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal Alan, if the interior of the motor is in-compressible (as in liquid filled) there is no pressure differential. It's only the pressure differential that counts. There is no push from either side, and you could go to any pressure you like without the seal lifting. Best, Alec On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below (substitute air side with water side)will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct?In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of thelips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventuallythe pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring pressure,but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it ?willmaintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth changes.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 08:21:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 05:21:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal In-Reply-To: <1432210646.91074.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1432210865.90790.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Sorry I repeated what you said, ok I am awake now :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/21/15, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, May 21, 2015, 8:17 AM Alan, Your forgetting the spring, that is what is doing the work because the pressure is the same on both sides including the areas above and in front of the v area.? The area above the V does provide pressure on the shaft IF there is a pressure differential with the higher pressure being above the V. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/20/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, May 20, 2015, 10:32 PM Alec is kind of understanding me.On the microscopic level, at the very point of the V where it touches the propeller shaft,there must be a slight lifting with increased pressure from depth, due to pressure from water?& oil from oposing sides pushing on the V of the seal & squeezing it up. This lifting will occur?untill the oil & water actually meet.This may cause mixing of the two with the shafts rotational speed.?However I am assuming that with this simple type of rotary shaft seal, the oil pressure (or water depending on the seal orientation)?which would be in the cavity above the spring, would counteract this, leaving a consistant pressure on the?shaft regardless of depth.Alan ? ??? ??? ? From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:27 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal ??? Alan, if the interior of the motor is in-compressible (as in liquid filled) there is no pressure differential. It's only the pressure differential that counts. There is no push from either side, and you could go to any pressure you like without the seal lifting. Best, Alec On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below (substitute air side with water side)will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct?In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of thelips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventuallythe pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring pressure,but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it ?willmaintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth changes.Alan ? ??? ? ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ??? Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan ? ??? ? ???From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ??? Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan ? ? ? ? From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ??? How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 09:10:34 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 13:10:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal In-Reply-To: <1622962679.4036450.1432175556484.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1622962679.4036450.1432175556484.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1108035616.3395337.1432213834183.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, I agree with the second part of the statement and not the first.? What you describe in the first part would be correct if you had oil compensation and a stiff bladder.? For a soft bladder, the pressures both internal and external are balance regardless of depth and thermal expansion of the oil and as such, the seal does not lift off shaft and the water and oil don't mix. Cliff ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal Alec is kind of understanding me.On the microscopic level, at the very point of the V where it touches the propeller shaft,there must be a slight lifting with increased pressure from depth, due to pressure from water?& oil from oposing sides pushing on the V of the seal & squeezing it up. This lifting will occur?untill the oil & water actually meet.This may cause mixing of the two with the shafts rotational speed.?However I am assuming that with this simple type of rotary shaft seal, the oil pressure (or water depending on the seal orientation)?which would be in the cavity above the spring, would counteract this, leaving a consistant pressure on the?shaft regardless of depth.Alan From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Lip seal Alan, if the interior of the motor is in-compressible (as in liquid filled) there is no pressure differential. It's only the pressure differential that counts. There is no push from either side, and you could go to any pressure you like without the seal lifting. Best, Alec On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: While on the motor subject; a simple low pressure lip seal as below (substitute air side with water side)will be pressure compensated in a compensated motor! Is this correct?In oil compensation there will be oil pushing on the wedged shape of thelips mating surface, from one direction & water from the other. Eventuallythe pressure from both sides would lift the seal against it's spring pressure,but because of the recess above the spring that the oil gets in to, it ?willmaintain the same pressure above ambient on the shaft throughout the depth changes.Alan From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 09:26:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 13:26:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <762907020.3389105.1432214770736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I updated the?MK101 thruster project at the?Psub.org web site to show the assembled thrusters?installed on the boat?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/?.?The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled thruster alone.? I have not added oil yet.? This is a dry fit only.? I am leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the apex of the caps?for fillings and to remove air.? This is a great idea. Cliff From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 10:20:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 07:20:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Message-ID: <20150521072058.697D1AE3@m0048137.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 10:31:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 08:31:58 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress In-Reply-To: <20150521072058.697D1AE3@m0048137.ppops.net> References: <20150521072058.697D1AE3@m0048137.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1fa8146c-2715-46e1-809c-2c39b7761c78@email.android.com> Brian - do you mean a 48 VAC motor (requiring 68 volts on the DC bus)? On May 21, 2015 8:20:58 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >My pressure hull alone has a positive buoyancy of 3,800 lbs. , with a >hard ballast up front of 400 lbs. > >BTW, I had a revelation ( another one !) that I might be able to pivot >my motors thus eliminating a rudder system, which would solve a lot of >problems for me, since with rudders you really need to be moving before >they are effective. Here is the a link to the new motor that I'm >planning on using, however mine will be a 48 Volt system. > > http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=371 > >Brian > > > > > > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > >To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress >Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 22:32:33 -0700 > >Looks great, Brian. > > > >Well on road to completion. > > > >Tim > > > >From: Personal_Submersibles >[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox >via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: May-19-15 6:49 PM >To: PSubs >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress > > > >Here are some pictures I put up on the web site: > > > >http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567812/pressurehull/ > > > >Brian_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 11:08:14 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 08:08:14 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Message-ID: <20150521080814.6DA6D967@m0048138.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 11:16:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 11:16:51 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Update Message-ID: All, now that the Carderock/International Submarine Races (ISR) visit (Thur. 6/25) registration has passed I am trying to get an attendance head count. If: you have registered for Carderock/ISR please send me a confirmation email *off list* @ psub101 at indy.rr.com. If: you did not register for this activity but are planning on attending on Fri. 6/26 (hotel tech. sessions) or Sat. 6/27 (Alec's project review/lunch/Washington Navy Yard Museum visit) also please let me know *off list* @ psub101 at indy.rr.com. More to come! Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 11:38:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 11:38:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress In-Reply-To: <20150521072058.697D1AE3@m0048137.ppops.net> References: <20150521072058.697D1AE3@m0048137.ppops.net> Message-ID: Oh my... 65HP and 650 amps. Is that really the right one? Best, Alec On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > My pressure hull alone has a positive buoyancy of 3,800 lbs. , with a hard > ballast up front of 400 lbs. > BTW, I had a revelation ( another one !) that I might be able to pivot my > motors thus eliminating a rudder system, which would solve a lot of > problems for me, since with rudders you really need to be moving before > they are effective. Here is the a link to the new motor that I'm planning > on using, however mine will be a 48 Volt system. > http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=371 > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress > Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 22:32:33 -0700 > > Looks great, Brian. > > > > Well on road to completion. > > > > Tim > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* May-19-15 6:49 PM > *To:* PSubs > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress > > > > Here are some pictures I put up on the web site: > > > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1234567812/pressurehull/ > > > > Brian_______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 13:28:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:28:51 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Message-ID: <20150521102851.5B2A4F87@m0005311.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 13:34:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 07:34:44 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <762907020.3389105.1432214770736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <762907020.3389105.1432214770736.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Cliff, I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us all. Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it? If you outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the capability of doing it myself unfortunately. Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, I updated the MK101 thruster project at the Psub.org web site to > show the assembled thrusters installed on the boat > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ . The next time > I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled > thruster alone. I have not added oil yet. This is a dry fit only. I am > leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw > to the apex of the caps for fillings and to remove air. This is a great > idea. > > Cliff > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Any pictures Cliff? > Rick > > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil. No holes in housing. On the > SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with > Swagelok compression fitting. I will connect to this port. > > Cliff > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Cliff, > how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS > method. > Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube? > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure > compensation. If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or > this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. > > > Cliff Redus > > > > On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Jon, > the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going > to test out, > & put a regulator in the system that is set it to around 4psi internal > overpressure. > This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting every > last drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run > it air compensated. > There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to > replace it. > Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:) > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction > of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of > the motor housing, is it? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 14:05:06 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:05:06 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress In-Reply-To: <20150521080814.6DA6D967@m0048138.ppops.net> References: <20150521080814.6DA6D967@m0048138.ppops.net> Message-ID: <555E1E52.30301@telus.net> So it is an AC induction motor driven by a motor controller, or variable frequency drive (VFD), which in this case looks like a turnkey solution (matched motor and controller) from one manufacturer. Typically in industrial systems, a VFD has a rectifier stage, which converts some incoming AC voltage (constant) to DC, and then an inverter stage which converts the DC back to AC at the desired (controlled) frequency. The DC bus voltage in this case must be sqrt(2) times the desired motor voltage, in order for the inverter to be able to supply the AC peaks. It looks like the manufacturer you linked to is providing a custom controller without a rectifier stage, so you supply the DC bus directly via batteries, and it just takes care of the VF inversion. It wasn't clear from the available documents on that site whether you must supply a DC voltage of sqrt(2) times your motor voltage, or if the controller has some sort of onboard step-up transformer or DC-DC converter to be able to achieve AC voltages comparable to the DC supply. Sean From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 15:25:31 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 19:25:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1509210216.3656265.1432236331556.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?Rick, I am not a machinist as well.? I have a friend who?is and owns his own machine shop.? I outsourced?all the machined parts to him.??I don't remember?the?total cost but?there was some setup and learning curve on the first of these.??I asked him what he thought ?it would cost to machine?future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator).??He thought he could do the 6 parts for?$1500 each.???This is still a bit pricey but better than OTS thrusters.? The problem with this kind of stuff is there is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. Cliff ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Thanks Cliff,I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us all.Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it?? If you outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the capability of doing it myself unfortunately.Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I updated the?MK101 thruster project at the?Psub.org web site to show the assembled thrusters?installed on the boat?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/?.?The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled thruster alone.? I have not added oil yet.? This is a dry fit only.? I am leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the apex of the caps?for fillings and to remove air.? This is a great idea. Cliff From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 16:16:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 20:16:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1509210216.3656265.1432236331556.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1509210216.3656265.1432236331556.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <228866566.4783269.1432239379324.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Just had a look at your R300 modifications with the thrusters mounted on therear of the sub. Looking really good. I think you will ?like how it performs.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ?Rick, I am not a machinist as well.? I have a friend who?is and owns his own machine shop.? I outsourced?all the machined parts to him.??I don't remember?the?total cost but?there was some setup and learning curve on the first of these.??I asked him what he thought ?it would cost to machine?future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator).??He thought he could do the 6 parts for?$1500 each.???This is still a bit pricey but better than OTS thrusters.? The problem with this kind of stuff is there is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. Cliff ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Thanks Cliff,I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us all.Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it?? If you outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the capability of doing it myself unfortunately.Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I updated the?MK101 thruster project at the?Psub.org web site to show the assembled thrusters?installed on the boat?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/?.?The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled thruster alone.? I have not added oil yet.? This is a dry fit only.? I am leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the apex of the caps?for fillings and to remove air.? This is a great idea. Cliff From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 16:42:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 13:42:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <228866566.4783269.1432239379324.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1432240960.3637.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Agreed, that is so sexy and built to perfection. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/21/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, May 21, 2015, 4:16 PM Just had a look at your R300 modifications with the thrusters mounted on therear of the sub. Looking really good. I think you will ?like how it performs.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ?Rick, I am not a machinist as well.? I have a friend who?is and owns his own machine shop.? I outsourced?all the machined parts to him.??I don't remember?the?total cost but?there was some setup and learning curve on the first of these.??I asked him what he thought ?it would cost to machine?future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator).??He thought he could do the 6 parts for?$1500 each.???This is still a bit pricey but better than OTS thrusters.? The problem with this kind of stuff is there is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. Cliff ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Thanks Cliff,I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us all.Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it?? If you outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the capability of doing it myself unfortunately.Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I updated the?MK101 thruster project at the?Psub.org web site to show the assembled thrusters?installed on the boat?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/?.?The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled thruster alone.? I have not added oil yet.? This is a dry fit only.? I am leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the apex of the caps?for fillings and to remove air.? This is a great idea. Cliff From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 16:48:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 20:48:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <228866566.4783269.1432239379324.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <228866566.4783269.1432239379324.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1666829039.3762389.1432241297943.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Yes, I am looking forward to see how they work both a low and high speed. Cliff ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Just had a look at your R300 modifications with the thrusters mounted on therear of the sub. Looking really good. I think you will ?like how it performs.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ?Rick, I am not a machinist as well.? I have a friend who?is and owns his own machine shop.? I outsourced?all the machined parts to him.??I don't remember?the?total cost but?there was some setup and learning curve on the first of these.??I asked him what he thought ?it would cost to machine?future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator).??He thought he could do the 6 parts for?$1500 each.???This is still a bit pricey but better than OTS thrusters.? The problem with this kind of stuff is there is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. Cliff ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Thanks Cliff,I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us all.Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it?? If you outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the capability of doing it myself unfortunately.Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I updated the?MK101 thruster project at the?Psub.org web site to show the assembled thrusters?installed on the boat?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/?.?The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled thruster alone.? I have not added oil yet.? This is a dry fit only.? I am leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the apex of the caps?for fillings and to remove air.? This is a great idea. Cliff From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 16:49:18 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 20:49:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1432240960.3637.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432240960.3637.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1588553035.3720531.1432241358173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> ?Thanks.? Now if I could just fabricate as fast as you, I would be sailing! Cliff ? From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Agreed, that is so sexy and built to perfection. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/21/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, May 21, 2015, 4:16 PM Just had a look at your R300 modifications with the thrusters mounted on therear of the sub. Looking really good. I think you will ?like how it performs.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ Alan ? ? ? ? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:25 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? ?Rick, I am not a machinist as well.? I have a friend who?is and owns his own machine shop.? I outsourced?all the machined parts to him.??I don't remember?the?total cost but?there was some setup and learning curve on the first of these.??I asked him what he thought ?it would cost to machine?future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator).??He thought he could do the 6 parts for?$1500 each.???This is still a bit pricey but better than OTS thrusters.? The problem with this kind of stuff is there is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. Cliff ?? ? ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? Thanks Cliff,I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us all.Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it?? If you outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the capability of doing it myself unfortunately.Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I updated the?MK101 thruster project at the?Psub.org web site to show the assembled thrusters?installed on the boat?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/?.?The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled thruster alone.? I have not added oil yet.? This is a dry fit only.? I am leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the apex of the caps?for fillings and to remove air.? This is a great idea. Cliff ? ? ? ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan ? ? ? ? From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan ? ? ? ? From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 17:20:56 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 09:20:56 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1432240960.3637.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <228866566.4783269.1432239379324.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1432240960.3637.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <555e4c1f.6c41440a.396f.012e@mx.google.com> I Think Cliff is more an artist than Engineer!! Looks beautiful. Probably works as well! ;) Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 22 May 2015 8:43 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Agreed, that is so sexy and built to perfection. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/21/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, May 21, 2015, 4:16 PM Just had a look at your R300 modifications with the thrusters mounted on therear of the sub. Looking really good. I think you will ?like how it performs.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ?Rick, I am not a machinist as well.? I have a friend who?is and owns his own machine shop.? I outsourced?all the machined parts to him.??I don't remember?the?total cost but?there was some setup and learning curve on the first of these.??I asked him what he thought ?it would cost to machine?future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator).??He thought he could do the 6 parts for?$1500 each.???This is still a bit pricey but better than OTS thrusters.? The problem with this kind of stuff is there is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. Cliff ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Thanks Cliff,I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us all.Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it?? If you outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the capability of doing it myself unfortunately.Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I updated the?MK101 thruster project at the?Psub.org web site to show the assembled thrusters?installed on the boat?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/?.?The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled thruster alone.? I have not added oil yet.? This is a dry fit only.? I am leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the apex of the caps?for fillings and to remove air.? This is a great idea. Cliff From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting.? I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system?that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure.?This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 18:09:01 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:09:01 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1509210216.3656265.1432236331556.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1509210216.3656265.1432236331556.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Cliff, Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, I am not a machinist as well. I have a friend who is and owns his > own machine shop. I outsourced all the machined parts to him. I don't > remember the total cost but there was some setup and learning curve on the > first of these. I asked him what he thought it would cost to > machine future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and > adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator). He thought he could do the > 6 parts for $1500 each. This is still a bit pricey but better than OTS > thrusters. The problem with this kind of stuff is there is not enough > volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. > > Cliff > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Thanks Cliff, > I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure > helps us all. > Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 > yourself or did you have a machine shop do it? If you outsourced it, do > you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the > capability of doing it myself unfortunately. > Rick > > On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Rick, I updated the MK101 thruster project at the Psub.org web site to > show the assembled thrusters installed on the boat > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ . The next time > I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled > thruster alone. I have not added oil yet. This is a dry fit only. I am > leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw > to the apex of the caps for fillings and to remove air. This is a great > idea. > > Cliff > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Any pictures Cliff? > Rick > > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil. No holes in housing. On the > SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with > Swagelok compression fitting. I will connect to this port. > > Cliff > > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Cliff, > how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS > method. > Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube? > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure > compensation. If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or > this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. > > > Cliff Redus > > > > On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Jon, > the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going > to test out, > & put a regulator in the system that is set it to around 4psi internal > overpressure. > This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting every > last drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run > it air compensated. > There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to > replace it. > Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:) > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction > of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of > the motor housing, is it? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 19:35:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 16:35:46 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] maintenance Message-ID: <1432251346.13123.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I am doing some last minute maintenance before my dive on Sunday. I have had an annoying oil leak on the tail assembly seal. When I rebuilt it, I put the seals in the way they came out. I am going to install a new output seal backwards to how it was. Maybe that will cure it, there is no compensation system, just full of oil. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 19:46:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 16:46:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Message-ID: <20150521164650.77300FED@m0048140.ppops.net> Sean, I'm definitely not the one to explain how these motors and controllers are designed but from what the I can gather is that it is different from a VFD in that they are creating the induction current from a separate winding in the motor maybe? I'm really not up to speed on exactly how they work, need to do more homework ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull progress Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:05:06 -0600 So it is an AC induction motor driven by a motor controller, or variable frequency drive (VFD), which in this case looks like a turnkey solution (matched motor and controller) from one manufacturer. Typically in industrial systems, a VFD has a rectifier stage, which converts some incoming AC voltage (constant) to DC, and then an inverter stage which converts the DC back to AC at the desired (controlled) frequency. The DC bus voltage in this case must be sqrt(2) times the desired motor voltage, in order for the inverter to be able to supply the AC peaks. It looks like the manufacturer you linked to is providing a custom controller without a rectifier stage, so you supply the DC bus directly via batteries, and it just takes care of the VF inversion. It wasn't clear from the available documents on that site whether you must supply a DC voltage of sqrt(2) times your motor voltage, or if the controller has some sort of onboard step-up transformer or DC-DC converter to be able to achieve AC voltages comparable to the DC supply. Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 21:15:19 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 01:15:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <555e4c1f.6c41440a.396f.012e@mx.google.com> References: <555e4c1f.6c41440a.396f.012e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1898922607.65046.1432257319898.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hugh, I have been called a lot of things but never an artist.? Thanks. Speaking of works of art, how are you coming with Q-Sub? Best Regards Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap I Think Cliff is more an artist than Engineer!! Looks beautiful. Probably works as well!? ;) Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 22 May 2015 8:43 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Agreed, that is so sexy and built to perfection. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/21/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, May 21, 2015, 4:16 PM Just had a look at your R300 modifications with the thrusters mounted? on therear of the sub. Looking really good. I think you will ?like how it performs.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ Alan ? ? ? ? From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:25 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? ?Rick, I am not a machinist as well.? I have a friend who?is and? owns his own machine shop.? I outsourced?all the machined? parts to him.??I don't remember?the?total cost? but?there was some setup and learning curve on the first of? these.??I asked him what he thought ?it would cost to machine?future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical? penetrator).??He thought he could do the 6 parts? for?$1500 each.???This is still a bit pricey but better? than OTS thrusters.? The problem with this kind of stuff is? there is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by? going to castings. Cliff ?? ? ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? Thanks Cliff,I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure? helps us all.Did you? machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it?? If you? outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the? the concept but don't have the capability of doing it? myself unfortunately.Rick? On Thu,? May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via? Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I updated the?MK101 thruster project at the?Psub.org web? site to show the assembled thrusters?installed on the boat?http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/?.?The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of? the fully assembled thruster alone.? I have not added oil? yet.? This is a dry fit only.? I am leaning towards doing? what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the? apex of the caps?for fillings and to remove air.? This is? a great idea. Cliff ? ? ? ? From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil.? No? holes in housing.? On the SS part that screws into the side? of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok? compression fitting.? I will connect to this? port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com ? ? ? ? From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion? due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing? & using tube?Alan ? ? ? ? From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil? pressure compensation.? If I run into any issues, I will? look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a? regulator. ? Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via? Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using? & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the? system?that is set it to around 4psi internal? overpressure.?This means you can fill? with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You? will also be able to run it air compensated.?There is the safety feature that if you leak oil? there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your? order in:)Alan ? ? ? ? From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap ? How important is it to get every last air bubble out?? Surely a? fraction? of the total volume is not going? to result in catastrophic failure of? the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 21 23:17:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 20:17:54 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007801d0943d$e5892270$b09b6750$@telus.net> Unfortunately, and as usual, not everyone can attend. To those who are attending, please take a load of photos and post them on Psubs. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May-21-15 8:17 AM To: PSUBS Member Discussion Group; Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Update All, now that the Carderock/International Submarine Races (ISR) visit (Thur. 6/25) registration has passed I am trying to get an attendance head count. If: you have registered for Carderock/ISR please send me a confirmation email off list @ psub101 at indy.rr.com . If: you did not register for this activity but are planning on attending on Fri. 6/26 (hotel tech. sessions) or Sat. 6/27 (Alec's project review/lunch/Washington Navy Yard Museum visit) also please let me know off list @ psub101 at indy.rr.com . More to come! Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 22 00:50:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 21:50:28 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, I am registered and confirmed. See you in June. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, now that the Carderock/International Submarine Races (ISR) visit > (Thur. 6/25) registration has passed I am trying to get an attendance head > count. > > If: you have registered for Carderock/ISR please send me a confirmation > email *off list* @ psub101 at indy.rr.com. > > If: you did not register for this activity but are planning on attending > on Fri. 6/26 (hotel tech. sessions) or Sat. 6/27 (Alec's project > review/lunch/Washington Navy Yard Museum visit) also please let me know *off > list* @ psub101 at indy.rr.com. > > More to come! > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 22 11:28:32 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 09:28:32 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 FRP work Message-ID: <555F4B20.90402@telus.net> Cliff - I have once again been studying your photos of the R300 build, and I was hoping you might be able to elaborate a bit on the process you used to construct the FRP fairing. There are a couple of details that I am still fuzzy on... >From what I understand of the photos, you design the hydrodynamic fairing and then create virtual slices of the completed design, which you fabricate out of expanded polystyrene. I presume the slice thickness just depends on the available thickness of polystyrene board and/or how much work you want to do in shaping? I notice that you have these sections joined with wire ties in the photos... am I correct in assuming that this was a temporary measure, and that you moved to adhesives etc. prior to the body filler? Once you've carved the EPS down to shape, you cover in a layer of body filler which you can further refine and sand to a smooth finish, which you then painted. Is the paint necessary? Or can you just apply a mold release at that point? After that, it would appear that you added flanges to define the mold split lines. Were these centered on the split line, or did you move them slightly before laying up each half? Furthermore, was it necessary to split left and right, or do you think you could have done the mold as only two parts? Do you just use a mold release on the plug and then start fiberglassing, or do you apply a gelcoat first? Did you lay up the whole mold at once and then cut at the flange, or did you do a section at a time? Once the female mold was finished, I presume you did some further finishing / smoothing to the inside surface? Then a mold release / gel coat / glass to create the shell? Once the shell was done and trimmed, how did you join the pieces together and smooth the seam before casting your syntactic in? Thanks in advance. Sean From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 22 11:34:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 22 May 2015 15:34 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1Yvoy4-0GL2Aq0@fwd22.t-online.de> Because the submarine is for sale we make a promotion video in HD Quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaTaWY0dhg vbr Carsten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 22 12:19:33 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 16:19:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 FRP work In-Reply-To: <555F4B20.90402@telus.net> References: <555F4B20.90402@telus.net> Message-ID: <1586920308.479486.1432311573731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Sean, good to hear from you.? I am waiting to get on a plane to Barcelona so this will be brief. >From what I understand of the photos, you design the hydrodynamic fairing and then create virtual slices of the completed design, which you fabricate out of expanded polystyrene.? I presume the slice thickness just depends on the available thickness of polystyrene board Yes, I used 4'x8' x4" sheets. and/or how much work you want to do in shaping?? I notice that you have these sections joined with wire ties in the photos... am I correct in assuming that this was a temporary measure, and that you moved to adhesives etc. prior to the body filler? Yes, used a special spray on adhesive that joined the sections.? I used a CNC flat bed cutter that a local furniture fabrication company had to cut the section profiles based on a Autodcad drawing of the sections.? Bailing wire was used to temporary hold the sections until the adhesive set. Once you've carved the EPS down to shape, you cover in a layer of body filler which you can further refine and sand to a smooth finish, which you then painted.? Is the paint necessary?? Or can you just apply a mold release at that point? Paint is probably not necessary but I wanted to make sure the mold release worked correctly. After that, it would appear that you added flanges to define the mold split lines.? Were these centered on the split line, or did you move them slightly before laying up each half?? Slightly off-center so that face was on centerline plane, Furthermore, was it necessary to split left and right, or do you think you could have done the mold as only two parts? Not sure I could have removed the female mold from the plug mold without splitting down the middle.? Also it made it easier to do FRP layup on the haves. Do you just use a mold release on the plug and then start fiberglassing, or do you apply a gelcoat first? I used a mold release on the plug first. Did you lay up the whole mold at once and then cut at the flange, or did you do a section at a time? Section at a time. Once the female mold was finished, I presume you did some further finishing / smoothing to the inside surface? Yes, even though I sprayed a gel coat the surface was not clean enough so used normal auto paint procedure to paint the FRP shell. Then a mold release / gel coat / glass to create the shell? Yes Once the shell was done and trimmed, how did you join the pieces together and smooth the seam before casting your syntactic in? Assembled on the pressure hull and used normal FRP layup techniques to join sections.? This normally included grinding down the joints and doing a layup.? Om my next boat I am looking at generating a polystyrene plug mold cut on a 3-d CNC machine.? I would then apply tin foil to plug and lay the final FRP shell on this.? This will give better dimensional shape and should be quicker. Got to run. Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:28 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 FRP work Cliff - I have once again been studying your photos of the R300 build, and I was hoping you might be able to elaborate a bit on the process you used to construct the FRP fairing.? There are a couple of details that I am still fuzzy on... >From what I understand of the photos, you design the hydrodynamic fairing and then create virtual slices of the completed design, which you fabricate out of expanded polystyrene.? I presume the slice thickness just depends on the available thickness of polystyrene board and/or how much work you want to do in shaping?? I notice that you have these sections joined with wire ties in the photos... am I correct in assuming that this was a temporary measure, and that you moved to adhesives etc. prior to the body filler? Once you've carved the EPS down to shape, you cover in a layer of body filler which you can further refine and sand to a smooth finish, which you then painted.? Is the paint necessary?? Or can you just apply a mold release at that point? After that, it would appear that you added flanges to define the mold split lines.? Were these centered on the split line, or did you move them slightly before laying up each half?? Furthermore, was it necessary to split left and right, or do you think you could have done the mold as only two parts? Do you just use a mold release on the plug and then start fiberglassing, or do you apply a gelcoat first? Did you lay up the whole mold at once and then cut at the flange, or did you do a section at a time? Once the female mold was finished, I presume you did some further finishing / smoothing to the inside surface? Then a mold release / gel coat / glass to create the shell? Once the shell was done and trimmed, how did you join the pieces together and smooth the seam before casting your syntactic in? Thanks in advance. Sean _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 22 12:54:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 10:54:12 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 FRP work In-Reply-To: <1586920308.479486.1432311573731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <555F4B20.90402@telus.net> <1586920308.479486.1432311573731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2b392f10-a56a-46d1-99c1-b177cb6ef50f@email.android.com> Cliff, I'm on conference in Austin for August 2-7. If by any chance you and your boat are going to be home at that time or the following weekend, I could probably manage a side trip to Devine to have a chat if you're available? Sean On May 22, 2015 10:19:33 AM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Sean, good to hear from you.? I am waiting to get on a plane to >Barcelona so this will be brief. >From what I understand of the photos, you design the hydrodynamic >fairing and then create virtual slices of the completed design, which >you fabricate out of expanded polystyrene.? I presume the slice >thickness just depends on the available thickness of polystyrene board >Yes, I used 4'x8' x4" sheets. >and/or how much work you want to do in shaping?? I notice that you have >these sections joined with wire ties in the photos... am I correct in >assuming that this was a temporary measure, and that you moved to >adhesives etc. prior to the body filler? >Yes, used a special spray on adhesive that joined the sections.? I used >a CNC flat bed cutter that a local furniture fabrication company had to >cut the section profiles based on a Autodcad drawing of the sections.? >Bailing wire was used to temporary hold the sections until the adhesive >set. > >Once you've carved the EPS down to shape, you cover in a layer of body >filler which you can further refine and sand to a smooth finish, which >you then painted.? Is the paint necessary?? Or can you just apply a >mold >release at that point? >Paint is probably not necessary but I wanted to make sure the mold >release worked correctly. > >After that, it would appear that you added flanges to define the mold >split lines.? Were these centered on the split line, or did you move >them slightly before laying up each half?? >Slightly off-center so that face was on centerline plane, >Furthermore, was it necessary >to split left and right, or do you think you could have done the mold >as >only two parts? >Not sure I could have removed the female mold from the plug mold >without splitting down the middle.? Also it made it easier to do FRP >layup on the haves. > >Do you just use a mold release on the plug and then start >fiberglassing, >or do you apply a gelcoat first? >I used a mold release on the plug first. > >Did you lay up the whole mold at once and then cut at the flange, or >did >you do a section at a time? >Section at a time. > >Once the female mold was finished, I presume you did some further >finishing / smoothing to the inside surface? >Yes, even though I sprayed a gel coat the surface was not clean enough >so used normal auto paint procedure to paint the FRP shell. > >Then a mold release / gel coat / glass to create the shell? >Yes > >Once the shell was done and trimmed, how did you join the pieces >together and smooth the seam before casting your syntactic in? >Assembled on the pressure hull and used normal FRP layup techniques to >join sections.? This normally included grinding down the joints and >doing a layup.? > >Om my next boat I am looking at generating a polystyrene plug mold >cut on a 3-d CNC machine.? I would then apply tin foil to plug and lay >the final FRP shell on this.? This will give better dimensional shape >and should be quicker. >Got to run. > > >Cliff Redus >Redus Engineering >USA mobile:??830-931-1280 >cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:28 AM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 FRP work > >Cliff - I have once again been studying your photos of the R300 build, >and I was hoping you might be able to elaborate a bit on the process >you >used to construct the FRP fairing.? There are a couple of details that >I >am still fuzzy on... > >From what I understand of the photos, you design the hydrodynamic >fairing and then create virtual slices of the completed design, which >you fabricate out of expanded polystyrene.? I presume the slice >thickness just depends on the available thickness of polystyrene board >and/or how much work you want to do in shaping?? I notice that you have >these sections joined with wire ties in the photos... am I correct in >assuming that this was a temporary measure, and that you moved to >adhesives etc. prior to the body filler? > >Once you've carved the EPS down to shape, you cover in a layer of body >filler which you can further refine and sand to a smooth finish, which >you then painted.? Is the paint necessary?? Or can you just apply a >mold >release at that point? > >After that, it would appear that you added flanges to define the mold >split lines.? Were these centered on the split line, or did you move >them slightly before laying up each half?? Furthermore, was it >necessary >to split left and right, or do you think you could have done the mold >as >only two parts? > >Do you just use a mold release on the plug and then start >fiberglassing, >or do you apply a gelcoat first? > >Did you lay up the whole mold at once and then cut at the flange, or >did >you do a section at a time? > >Once the female mold was finished, I presume you did some further >finishing / smoothing to the inside surface? > >Then a mold release / gel coat / glass to create the shell? > >Once the shell was done and trimmed, how did you join the pieces >together and smooth the seam before casting your syntactic in? > >Thanks in advance. > >Sean >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 22 13:10:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 12:10:36 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 FRP work In-Reply-To: <2b392f10-a56a-46d1-99c1-b177cb6ef50f@email.android.com> References: <555F4B20.90402@telus.net> <1586920308.479486.1432311573731.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <2b392f10-a56a-46d1-99c1-b177cb6ef50f@email.android.com> Message-ID: Sean, I am scheduled to be in Perth Australia that week. I am teaching an oil and gas engineering short course. Having said that with the oil price down this session may not make. I won't know for a while. If the class does not make, you are surely welcome to come for a visit. I have a spare bedroom we cold put you up in. Let's chat in a month or so. Best regards Cliff Cliff Redus > On May 22, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, I'm on conference in Austin for August 2-7. If by any chance you and your boat are going to be home at that time or the following weekend, I could probably manage a side trip to Devine to have a chat if you're available? > > Sean > > >> On May 22, 2015 10:19:33 AM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Sean, good to hear from you. I am waiting to get on a plane to Barcelona so this will be brief. >> >> From what I understand of the photos, you design the hydrodynamic >> fairing and then create virtual slices of the completed design, which >> you fabricate out of expanded polystyrene. I presume the slice >> thickness just depends on the available thickness of polystyrene board >> >> Yes, I used 4'x8' x4" sheets. >> >> and/or how much work you want to do in shaping? I notice that you have >> these sections joined with wire ties in the photos... am I correct in >> assuming that this was a temporary measure, and that you moved to >> adhesives etc. prior to the body filler? >> >> Yes, used a special spray on adhesive that joined the sections. I used a CNC flat bed cutter that a local furniture fabrication company had to cut the section profiles based on a Autodcad drawing of the sections. Bailing wire was used to temporary hold the sections until the adhesive set. >> >> >> Once you've carved the EPS down to shape, you cover in a layer of body >> filler which you can further refine and sand to a smooth finish, which >> you then painted. Is the paint necessary? Or can you j! ust apply a mold >> release at that point? >> >> Paint is probably not necessary but I wanted to make sure the mold release worked correctly. >> >> After that, it would appear that you added flanges to define the mold >> split lines. Were these centered on the split line, or did you move >> them slightly before laying up each half? >> >> Slightly off-center so that face was on centerline plane, >> >> Furthermore, was it necessary >> to split left and right, or do you think you could have done the mold as >> only two parts? >> >> Not sure I could have removed the female mold from the plug mold without splitting down the middle. Also it made it easier to do FRP layup on the haves. >> >> Do you just use a mold release on the plug and then start fiberglassing, >> or do you apply a gelcoat first? >> >> I used a mold release on the plug first. >> >> Did you lay up the whole mold at once and then cut at the flange, or did >> you do a section at a time? >> >> Section at a time. >> >> Once the female mold was finished, I presume you did some further >> finishing / smoothing to the inside surface? >> >> Yes, even though I sprayed a gel coat the surface was not clean enough so used normal auto paint procedure to paint the FRP shell. >> >> Then a mold release / gel coat / glass to create the shell? >> >> Yes >> >> Once the shell was done and trimmed, how did you join the pieces >> together and smooth the seam before casting your syntactic in? >> >> Assembled on the pressure hull and used normal FRP layup techniques to join sections. This normally included grinding down the joints and doing a layup. >> >> Om my next boat I am looking at generating a polystyrene plug mold >> cut on a 3-d CNC machine. I would then apply tin foil to plug and lay the final FRP! shell on this. This will give better dimensional shape and should be quicker. >> >> Got to run. >> >> >> Cliff Redus >> Redus Engineering >> USA mobile: 830-931-1280 >> cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com >> >> From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:28 AM >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] R300 FRP work >> >> Cliff - I have once again been studying your photos of the R300 build, >> and I was hoping you might be able to elaborate a bit on the process you >> used to construct the FRP fairing. There are a couple of details that I >> am still fuzzy on... >> >> From what I understand of the photos, you design the hydrodynamic >> fairing and then create virtual slices of the completed design, which >> you fabricate out of expanded polystyrene. ! ; I presume the slice >> thickness just depends on the available thickness of polystyrene board >> and/or how much work you want to do in shaping? I notice that you have >> these sections joined with wire ties in the photos... am I correct in >> assuming that this was a temporary measure, and that you moved to >> adhesives etc. prior to the body filler? >> >> Once you've carved the EPS down to shape, you cover in a layer of body >> filler which you can further refine and sand to a smooth finish, which >> you then painted. Is the paint necessary? Or can you just apply a mold >> release at that point? >> >> After that, it would appear that you added flanges to define the mold >> split lines. Were these centered on the split line, or did you move >> them slightly before laying up each half? Furthermore, was it necessary >> to split left and right, or do you think you could have done the mold as >> only two parts? >> ! >> Do you just use a mold release on the plug and then start fiberglassing, >> or do you apply a gelcoat first? >> >> Did you lay up the whole mold at once and then cut at the flange, or did >> you do a section at a time? >> >> Once the female mold was finished, I presume you did some further >> finishing / smoothing to the inside surface? >> >> Then a mold release / gel coat / glass to create the shell? >> >> Once the shell was done and trimmed, how did you join the pieces >> together and smooth the seam before casting your syntactic in? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Sean >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 22 21:27:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 01:27:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1Yvoy4-0GL2Aq0@fwd22.t-online.de> References: <1Yvoy4-0GL2Aq0@fwd22.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1106698332.913174.1432344470554.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Good work with the video Carsten,I saw it on Facebook & was tempted to post it.Hank, you won't fit in it.Alan From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 3:34 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video E-Mail Software 6.0Because the submarine is for sale we make a promotion video in HD Quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaTaWY0dhg vbr Carsten _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 22 22:18:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 19:18:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1106698332.913174.1432344470554.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, Funny, I was showing my guys the video at lunch and I told them we won't fit. :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/22/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Friday, May 22, 2015, 9:27 PM Good work with the video Carsten,I saw it on Facebook & was tempted to post it.Hank, you won't fit in it.Alan From: "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 3:34 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video E-Mail Software 6.0Because the submarine is for sale we make a promotion video in HD Quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaTaWY0dhg vbr Carsten _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 03:23:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 03:23:07 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1106698332.913174.1432344470554.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Carsten, would you please email me off-list? spiritofcalypso at gmail.com Thanks, Doug Suhr On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 10:18 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > Funny, I was showing my guys the video at lunch and I told them we won't > fit. :-) > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 5/22/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Friday, May 22, 2015, 9:27 PM > > Good work with the > video Carsten,I > saw it on Facebook & was tempted to post > it.Hank, you > won't fit in it.Alan > > From: "Carsten > Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, May 23, 2015 3:34 AM > Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > > > > > > > E-Mail Software > 6.0Because > the submarine is > for sale we make a promotion video in HD Quality. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaTaWY0dhg > > vbr > Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 08:42:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 08:42:37 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water Temp Sensor Message-ID: <556075BD.20604@psubs.org> I've uploaded a video showing how I fabricated a water temperature sensor out of a Texas Instruments LM34. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1iAJcph0Js From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 10:03:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 14:03:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water Temp Sensor In-Reply-To: <556075BD.20604@psubs.org> References: <556075BD.20604@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1551477715.149732.1432389780483.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Nice Video, Joe! How do you display the temperature? Chris?Christopher Cave christophercave at yahoo.com From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 8:42 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water Temp Sensor I've uploaded a video showing how I fabricated a water temperature sensor out of a Texas Instruments LM34. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1iAJcph0Js _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 11:00:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 11:00:16 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water Temp Sensor In-Reply-To: <1551477715.149732.1432389780483.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <556075BD.20604@psubs.org> <1551477715.149732.1432389780483.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55609600.90304@psubs.org> I'll be connecting the sensor to an Arduino, most likely using the onboard 10-bit ADC. The display will be four digit 7-segment LED configured as 000.0 Jon On 5/23/2015 10:03 AM, Christopher Cave via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Nice Video, Joe! > > How do you display the temperature? > > Chris > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 12:40:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 23 May 2015 16:40 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty etc.. If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Alan, > Funny, I was showing my guys the video at lunch and I told them we won't fit. :-) > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 5/22/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, May 22, 2015, 9:27 PM > > Good work with the > video Carsten,I > saw it on Facebook & was tempted to post > it.Hank, you > won't fit in it.Alan > > From: "Carsten > Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, May 23, 2015 3:34 AM > Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > > > > > > > E-Mail Software > 6.0Because > the submarine is > for sale we make a promotion video in HD Quality. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaTaWY0dhg > > vbr > Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 12:47:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 09:47:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1432399630.51780.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Carsten, You should be in marketing, "buy my submarine and you will be all you can be" :-) :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5/23/15, Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Saturday, May 23, 2015, 12:40 PM This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body.?? If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty etc.. If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. vbr Carsten "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Alan, > Funny, I was showing my guys the video at lunch and I told them we won't fit. :-) > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 5/22/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Friday, May 22, 2015, 9:27 PM > > Good work with the > video Carsten,I > saw it on Facebook & was tempted to post > it.Hank, you > won't fit in it.Alan > > From: "Carsten > Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Saturday, May 23, 2015 3:34 AM > Subject: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > > > > > > > E-Mail Software > 6.0Because > the submarine is > for sale we make a promotion video in HD Quality. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaTaWY0dhg > > vbr > Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 14:01:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 12:01:29 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> Message-ID: <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. Sean On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. > > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty etc.. > > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. > > vbr Carsten From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 14:34:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 23 May 2015 18:34 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1432399630.51780.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432399630.51780.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1YwEFZ-2OR6pc0@fwd33.t-online.de> I fit not in any more.. still slim but get older. "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > > Carsten, > You should be in marketing, "buy my submarine and you will be all you can be" :-) :-) > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 5/23/15, Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Saturday, May 23, 2015, 12:40 PM > > This submarine is a good starter > to do something for your > body. > > If you fit > in your can count yourself as a > young, dynamik, sporty etc.. > > If you not fit in you may come from > Springfield.. > > vbr > Carsten > > "hank > pronk via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: > > > > Alan, > > Funny, I was showing my guys the video at > lunch and I told them we won't fit. :-) > > > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 5/22/15, Alan James via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > Subject: > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > > To: "Personal Submersibles General > Discussion" > > Received: Friday, May 22, 2015, 9:27 > PM > > > > Good work > with the > > video Carsten,I > > saw it on Facebook & was tempted to > post > > it.Hank, you > > > won't fit in it.Alan > > > > From: "Carsten > > Standfu?" via > Personal_Submersibles" > > > > > > To: Personal > > Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > > > Sent: > > Saturday, May 23, 2015 3:34 AM > > Subject: > > > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-Mail Software > > > 6.0Because > > the submarine is > > for sale we make a promotion video in HD > Quality. > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaTaWY0dhg > > > > vbr > > Carsten > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 14:35:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 23 May 2015 18:35 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> Message-ID: <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> Longer than 184 cm? 74.44 inch - 6 feet "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. > > Sean > > > On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. > > > > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty etc.. > > > > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. > > > > vbr Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 14:44:46 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 12:44:46 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> Message-ID: <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> 196 cm. Deckhead beams and low doorways are not my friend... Sean On May 23, 2015 12:35:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >Longer than 184 cm? 74.44 inch - 6 feet > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >> Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles >wrote: >> > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. >> > >> > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty >etc.. >> > >> > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. >> > >> > vbr Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 19:02:54 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 00:02:54 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: <1898922607.65046.1432257319898.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <555e4c1f.6c41440a.396f.012e@mx.google.com> <1898922607.65046.1432257319898.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I took a picture of the vent hole I drilled into the motor cap. Its just a 6mm bolt with a rubber washer. Regards James ? On 22 May 2015 at 02:15, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hugh, I have been called a lot of things but never an artist. Thanks. > > Speaking of works of art, how are you coming with Q-Sub? > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 4:20 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > I Think Cliff is more an artist than Engineer!! > Looks beautiful. > > Probably works as well! ;) > Hugh > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 22 May 2015 8:43 a.m. > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > Agreed, that is so sexy and built to perfection. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 5/21/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Received: Thursday, May 21, 2015, 4:16 PM > > Just had a > look at your R300 modifications with the thrusters mounted on therear of > the sub. Looking really good. I think you will like how it > performs.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ > Alan > From: Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Friday, May 22, > 2015 7:25 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > Rick, I > am not a machinist as well. I have a friend who is and owns his own > machine shop. I outsourced all the machined parts to him. I don't > remember the total cost but there was some setup and learning curve on the > first of these. I asked him what he thought it would cost to > machine future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort > nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator). He thought > he could do the 6 parts for $1500 each. This is still a bit pricey but > better than OTS thrusters. The problem with this kind of stuff is there > is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. > Cliff > > > > > From: Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > > Sent: > Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > Thanks > Cliff,I was very > impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us > all.Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the > 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it? If you outsourced it, > do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have > the capability of doing it myself unfortunately.Rick On Thu, May 21, > 2015 > at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > Rick, I > updated the MK101 thruster project at the Psub.org web site to show the > assembled thrusters installed on the > boat http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ . The next > time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled > thruster alone. I have not added oil yet. This is a dry fit only. I am > leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw > to the apex of the caps for fillings and to remove air. This is a great > idea. > Cliff > > > > > From: Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Wednesday, May > 20, 2015 9:56 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > Any > pictures Cliff?Rick > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff > Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil. No holes in housing. On the > SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing > with > Swagelok compression fitting. I will connect to this port. > Cliff > > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus > Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > > From: Alan > James via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Wednesday, May > 20, 2015 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS > method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan > > > From: Clifford Redus > via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Thursday, May 21, > 2015 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > Actually > in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure > compensation. If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or > this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. > > > Cliff Redus > > > On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > Jon,the > alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to > test out,& put a regulator in the system that is set it to around 4psi > internal overpressure. This means you can fill with oil & not worry about > getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be > able to run it air compensated. There is the safety feature that if you > leak > oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts > sorted, just put your order in:)Alan > > > From: Jon > Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal > Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Thursday, May 21, > 2015 5:47 AM > Subject: Re: > [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap > > > > How > important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction of > the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the > motor housing, is it? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing > list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_5263.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 35044 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 23 20:18:08 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 20:18:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water Temp Sensor In-Reply-To: <556075BD.20604@psubs.org> References: <556075BD.20604@psubs.org> Message-ID: <16F9E57F-9E3C-46FC-BF20-065DA371ACE0@gmail.com> A wonderful simple solution that embodies the DIY approach - and a good video as well! Alec > On May 23, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I've uploaded a video showing how I fabricated a water temperature sensor out of a Texas Instruments LM34. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1iAJcph0Js > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 09:39:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 24 May 2015 13:39 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1YwW7S-1fGgl60@fwd06.t-online.de> 196 cm is to long for a submariner or Psuber. We should shorten you some 15 cm.. :-0 Carsten "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: 196 cm. Deckhead beams and low doorways are not my friend... Sean On May 23, 2015 12:35:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Longer than 184 cm? 74.44 inch - 6 feet "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. > > Sean > > > On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. > > > > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty etc.. > > > > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. > > > > vbr Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 16:55:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 14:55:58 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1YwW7S-1fGgl60@fwd06.t-online.de> References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> <1YwW7S-1fGgl60@fwd06.t-online.de> Message-ID: It is an interesting point. I just looked up the ABS ergonomics guide. For walkways, they require minimum 2130 mm (84 in) overhead, and 710 mm (28 in) width for single-person access, or 915 mm (36 in) for a two-way passage. Of course, that is for surface ships. Military submarines I'm sure are more compact. How much room did you design into the Euronaut main corridor? Sean On May 24, 2015 7:39:00 AM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >196 cm is to long for a submariner or Psuber. >We should shorten you some 15 cm.. > >:-0 > >Carsten > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >196 cm. Deckhead beams and low doorways are not my friend... >Sean > > > > >On May 23, 2015 12:35:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >Longer than 184 cm? 74.44 inch - 6 feet > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >> Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles >wrote: >> > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. >> > >> > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty >etc.. >> > >> > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. >> > >> > vbr Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >Personal_Submersibles mailing >listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 16:56:49 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 22:56:49 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For the aircompensators: It is good to have the hose on the lower side. Eventual water ingress will be pushed out when ascending. Emile _____ Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zondag 24 mei 2015 1:03 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap I took a picture of the vent hole I drilled into the motor cap. Its just a 6mm bolt with a rubber washer. Regards James ? On 22 May 2015 at 02:15, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hugh, I have been called a lot of things but never an artist. Thanks. Speaking of works of art, how are you coming with Q-Sub? Best Regards Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com _____ From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap I Think Cliff is more an artist than Engineer!! Looks beautiful. Probably works as well! ;) Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 22 May 2015 8:43 a.m. To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Agreed, that is so sexy and built to perfection. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/21/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, May 21, 2015, 4:16 PM Just had a look at your R300 modifications with the thrusters mounted on therear of the sub. Looking really good. I think you will like how it performs.http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ Alan From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Rick, I am not a machinist as well. I have a friend who is and owns his own machine shop. I outsourced all the machined parts to him. I don't remember the total cost but there was some setup and learning curve on the first of these. I asked him what he thought it would cost to machine future versions ;hub(1), stand offs(3), kort nozzle(1) and adapter(1) for Subconn electrical penetrator). He thought he could do the 6 parts for $1500 each. This is still a bit pricey but better than OTS thrusters. The problem with this kind of stuff is there is not enough volume to drive a lot of cost out by going to castings. Cliff From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Thanks Cliff,I was very impressed on how well you documented the process as it sure helps us all.Did you machine the SS part that screws into the lower end of the 101 yourself or did you have a machine shop do it? If you outsourced it, do you remember how pricey it was? I like the the concept but don't have the capability of doing it myself unfortunately.Rick On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I updated the MK101 thruster project at the Psub.org web site to show the assembled thrusters installed on the boat http://www.psubs.org/projects/1237684922/mk-101thruster/ . The next time I pull the thrusters off, I will add a picture of the fully assembled thruster alone. I have not added oil yet. This is a dry fit only. I am leaning towards doing what Alec did with his idea to add the SS set screw to the apex of the caps for fillings and to remove air. This is a great idea. Cliff From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Any pictures Cliff?Rick On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Small Tygon flexible tube filled with oil. No holes in housing. On the SS part that screws into the side of the housing, I have a 1/4" tubing with Swagelok compression fitting. I will connect to this port. Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile: 830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Cliff,how are you compensating for oil expansion due to heat with the KISS method.Are you just drilling holes in the housing & using tube?Alan From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap Actually in the spirit of KISS, I am going to start out using oil pressure compensation. If I run into any issues, I will look at using the air or this hybrid of oil and air with a regulator. Cliff Redus On May 20, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,the alternative is to follow Hugh's idea that Cliff is using & I am going to test out,& put a regulator in the system that is set it to around 4psi internal overpressure. This means you can fill with oil & not worry about getting everylast drop going in, or drilling the housing. You will also be able to run it air compensated. There is the safety feature that if you leak oil there is plenty of air to replace it.Cliff already has the parts sorted, just put your order in:)Alan From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK101 oil compensation tap How important is it to get every last air bubble out? Surely a fraction of the total volume is not going to result in catastrophic failure of the motor housing, is it? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 35044 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 17:37:03 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 14:37:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Message-ID: <1432503423.6195.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I have always wanted to build a sub like sgt Pepper except with a big difference. I would build it so it has the entry hatch (dome) at the end and the sub inverts to enter or exit. So you launch it horizontal and float it to deep water, then stand it up to open the hatch and enter. I have the necessary parts already, I am very tempted now that I need a project again. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 18:00:35 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 22:00:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <1432503423.6195.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432503423.6195.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1029543395.708283.1432504835192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> So you launch it in to deep water, swim out to it, and it tips over& sinks when you try to get in it?It sounds similar to Cliffs new design.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 9:37 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project I have always wanted to build a sub like sgt Pepper except with a big difference.? I would build it so it has the entry hatch (dome) at the end and the sub inverts to enter or exit.? So you launch it horizontal and float it to deep water, then stand it up to open the hatch and enter.? I have the necessary parts already, I am very tempted now that I need a project again. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 18:25:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 16:25:24 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <1029543395.708283.1432504835192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1432503423.6195.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1029543395.708283.1432504835192.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76b2cdb3-2ce9-456c-8c94-b2dfafe0baa5@email.android.com> I presume that you mean to do this dockside. Getting wet first would seem to negate the advantages of using a sub. Sean On May 24, 2015 4:00:35 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >So you launch it in to deep water, swim out to it, and it tips over& >sinks when you try to get in it?It sounds similar to Cliffs new >design.Alan >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 9:37 AM > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project > >I have always wanted to build a sub like sgt Pepper except with a big >difference.? I would build it so it has the entry hatch (dome) at the >end and the sub inverts to enter or exit.? So you launch it horizontal >and float it to deep water, then stand it up to open the hatch and >enter.? I have the necessary parts already, I am very tempted now that >I need a project again. >Hank >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 18:31:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 15:31:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <76b2cdb3-2ce9-456c-8c94-b2dfafe0baa5@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1432506710.7875.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away. Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 6:25 PM I presume that you mean to do this dockside. Getting wet first would seem to negate the advantages of using a sub. Sean On May 24, 2015 4:00:35 PM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: So you launch it in to deep water, swim out to it, and it tips over& sinks when you try to get in it?It sounds similar to Cliffs new design.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 9:37 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project I have always wanted to build a sub like sgt Pepper except with a big difference.? I would build it so it has the entry hatch (dome) at the end and the sub inverts to enter or exit.? So you launch it horizontal and float it to deep water, then stand it up to open the hatch and enter.? I have the necessary! parts already, I am very tempted now that I need a project again. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 19:31:27 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 19:31:27 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <1432506710.7875.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432506710.7875.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <55625F4F.4080004@psubs.org> Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away. Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) > Hank-------------------------------------------- > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 20:32:21 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 17:32:21 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <55625F4F.4080004@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1432513941.84051.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, What say you on the flip flop submarine project. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 7:31 PM Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) > Hank-------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 20:34:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 17:34:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <55625F4F.4080004@psubs.org> Message-ID: <1432514056.61381.YahooMailBasic@web125405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The other nice thing about the flip flop sub is, I can lift it onto the deck of my sternwheeler. The sub will only be 1,400 lbs Hank-------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 7:31 PM Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) > Hank-------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 21:51:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 25 May 2015 01:51 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> <1YwW7S-1fGgl60@fwd06.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1YwhYJ-15ZuCW0@fwd39.t-online.de> 185 Head High under the frames in the main corridor - I am 183 cm :-) But sometimes a alarm light is an the way - special at non alarm condition.. The rules should notice something like - "No alam lights in head hight" or so.. In the machinery space it is the same with the side rudder servo. The rules should notice something like - "No servo gear in head hight" or so.. Muhaaaa.. vbr Carsten "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: It is an interesting point. I just looked up the ABS ergonomics guide. For walkways, they require minimum 2130 mm (84 in) overhead, and 710 mm (28 in) width for single-person access, or 915 mm (36 in) for a two-way passage. Of course, that is for surface ships. Military submarines I'm sure are more compact. How much room did you design into the Euronaut main corridor? Sean On May 24, 2015 7:39:00 AM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: 196 cm is to long for a submariner or Psuber. We should shorten you some 15 cm.. :-0 Carsten "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: 196 cm. Deckhead beams and low doorways are not my friend... Sean On May 23, 2015 12:35:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Longer than 184 cm? 74.44 inch - 6 feet "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. > > Sean > > > On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. > > > > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty etc.. > > > > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. > > > > vbr Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 22:16:10 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 20:16:10 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <1YwhYJ-15ZuCW0@fwd39.t-online.de> References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> <1YwW7S-1fGgl60@fwd06.t-online.de> <1YwhYJ-15ZuCW0@fwd39.t-online.de> Message-ID: This reminds me of my early seafaring days, working for the Canadian Coast Guard. I was working on deck one day when a general alarm sounded. I started running (!) to my station, when I passed a fellow deckhand operating an abrasive saw. With his ear protectors on and the saw running, he couldn't hear the alarm, so looked back to shout at him, but failed to stop running. I ran full speed into the boom of a deck crane that happened to be just at forehead height, knocking me flat on the deck. Now, we had been at sea for several weeks at that point, working on rotating shifts, so I wasn't really aware of the date or day of the week, which happened to be the first questions asked of me by the hospital doctor later that day... Anyway, I was diagnosed with a mild concussion and sent back to the ship with orders to be put on light duty for a few days. The "light duty" they gave me? Paint yellow and black safety stripes on everything near head height. Sean On May 24, 2015 7:51:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >185 Head High under the frames in the main corridor - I am 183 cm :-) > > >But sometimes a alarm light is an the way - special at non alarm >condition.. >The rules should notice something like - "No alam lights in head hight" >or so.. > >In the machinery space it is the same with the side rudder servo. >The rules should notice something like - "No servo gear in head hight" >or so.. > >Muhaaaa.. > >vbr Carsten > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >It is an interesting point. I just looked up the ABS ergonomics guide. >For walkways, they require minimum 2130 mm (84 in) overhead, and 710 mm >(28 in) width for single-person access, or 915 mm (36 in) for a two-way >passage. Of course, that is for surface ships. Military submarines I'm >sure are more compact. >How much room did you design into the Euronaut main corridor? >Sean > > > > >On May 24, 2015 7:39:00 AM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >196 cm is to long for a submariner or Psuber. >We should shorten you some 15 cm.. > >:-0 > >Carsten > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >196 cm. Deckhead beams and low doorways are not my friend... >Sean > > > > >On May 23, 2015 12:35:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >Longer than 184 cm? 74.44 inch - 6 feet > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >> Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles >wrote: >> > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. >> > >> > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty >etc.. >> > >> > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. >> > >> > vbr Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >Personal_Submersibles mailing >listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >Personal_Submersibles mailing >listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 22:38:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 22:38:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <55625F4F.4080004@psubs.org> References: <1432506710.7875.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <55625F4F.4080004@psubs.org> Message-ID: <6EC8F9E7-F908-4769-A5E0-0D1EA3B09643@gmail.com> Indeed! Except mine went vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard procedure. It was not going to have any freeboard to speak of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both unusually clear water and a vessel capable of launching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, servos, PLCs, and such. Best, Alec > On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. > > >> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away. Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) >> Hank-------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 24 23:12:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 20:12:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <6EC8F9E7-F908-4769-A5E0-0D1EA3B09643@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1432523546.67791.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, I am not thinking flyer at all. The water clarity would not support the speed. I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere even off the deck of my boat. It is just a though right now. For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome. The visibility is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it. As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus. I had to fill the sub with steel plates to get it to sink. :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM Indeed! Except mine went vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard procedure.? It was not going to have any freeboard to speak of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, servos, PLCs, and such. Best, Alec > On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. > > >> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) >> Hank-------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 03:55:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 07:55:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> <1YwW7S-1fGgl60@fwd06.t-online.de> <1YwhYJ-15ZuCW0@fwd39.t-online.de> Message-ID: <420677013.946513.1432540520918.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Enjoyed that. Great story Sean.?Alan From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video E-Mail Software 6.0This reminds me of my early seafaring days, working for the Canadian Coast Guard. I was working on deck one day when a general alarm sounded. I started running (!) to my station, when I passed a fellow deckhand operating an abrasive saw. With his ear protectors on and the saw running, he couldn't hear the alarm, so looked back to shout at him, but failed to stop running. I ran full speed into the boom of a deck crane that happened to be just at forehead height, knocking me flat on the deck.? Now, we had been at sea for several weeks at that point, working on rotating shifts, so I wasn't really aware of the date or day of the week, which happened to be the first questions asked of me by the hospital doctor later that day! ...Anyway, I was diagnosed with a mild concussion and sent back to the ship with orders to be put on light duty for a few days.? The "light duty" they gave me? Paint yellow and black safety stripes on everything near head height.Sean On May 24, 2015 7:51:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: 185 Head High under the frames in the main corridor?- I am 183?cm ? :-) But sometimes a alarm light is an the way - special at non alarm condition.. The rules should notice something like - "No alam lights in head hight" or so.. In the machinery space it is the same with the side rudder servo. The rules should notice something like - "No servo gear in head hight" or so.. Muhaaaa.. vbr Carsten "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: It is an interesting point. I just looked up the ABS ergonomics guide. For walkways, they require minimum 2130 mm (84 in) overhead, and 710 mm (28 in) width for single-person access, or 915 mm (36 in) for a two-way passage.? Of course, that is for surface ships. Military submarines I'm sure are more compact.How much room did you design into the Euronaut main corridor?Sean On May 24, 2015 7:39:00 AM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: 196 cm is to long for a submariner or Psuber. We should shorten you some 15 cm..? :-0 Carsten "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: 196 cm. Deckhead beams and low doorways are not my friend...Sean On May 23, 2015 12:35:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Longer than 184 cm??74.44 inch - 6 feet "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. > > Sean > > > On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. > > > > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty etc.. > > > > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. > > > > vbr Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 04:22:00 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (=?ISO-8859-1?b?IkNhcnN0ZW4gU3RhbmRmdd8i?= via Personal_Submersibles) Date: 25 May 2015 08:22 GMT Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> <1YwW7S-1fGgl60@fwd06.t-online.de> <1YwhYJ-15ZuCW0@fwd39.t-online.de> Message-ID: <1YwneN-3XpE2q0@fwd05.t-online.de> The side rudder servo has now yellow and black safety stripes.. And they filled with foam.. :-) "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: This reminds me of my early seafaring days, working for the Canadian Coast Guard. I was working on deck one day when a general alarm sounded. I started running (!) to my station, when I passed a fellow deckhand operating an abrasive saw. With his ear protectors on and the saw running, he couldn't hear the alarm, so looked back to shout at him, but failed to stop running. I ran full speed into the boom of a deck crane that happened to be just at forehead height, knocking me flat on the deck. Now, we had been at sea for several weeks at that point, working on rotating shifts, so I wasn't really aware of the date or day of the week, which happened to be the first questions asked of me by the hospital doctor later that day! ... Anyway, I was diagnosed with a mild concussion and sent back to the ship with orders to be put on light duty for a few days. The "light duty" they gave me? Paint yellow and black safety stripes on everything near head height. Sean On May 24, 2015 7:51:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: 185 Head High under the frames in the main corridor - I am 183 cm :-) But sometimes a alarm light is an the way - special at non alarm condition.. The rules should notice something like - "No alam lights in head hight" or so.. In the machinery space it is the same with the side rudder servo. The rules should notice something like - "No servo gear in head hight" or so.. Muhaaaa.. vbr Carsten "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: It is an interesting point. I just looked up the ABS ergonomics guide. For walkways, they require minimum 2130 mm (84 in) overhead, and 710 mm (28 in) width for single-person access, or 915 mm (36 in) for a two-way passage. Of course, that is for surface ships. Military submarines I'm sure are more compact. How much room did you design into the Euronaut main corridor? Sean On May 24, 2015 7:39:00 AM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: 196 cm is to long for a submariner or Psuber. We should shorten you some 15 cm.. :-0 Carsten "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: 196 cm. Deckhead beams and low doorways are not my friend... Sean On May 23, 2015 12:35:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Longer than 184 cm? 74.44 inch - 6 feet "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" schrieb: > Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. > > Sean > > > On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. > > > > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty etc.. > > > > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. > > > > vbr Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 05:40:37 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 09:40:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <1432523546.67791.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <6EC8F9E7-F908-4769-A5E0-0D1EA3B09643@gmail.com> <1432523546.67791.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1189817798.991695.1432546837809.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank,how would you configure the ballast tanks?You could have something like a truck inner tube around the top sectionthat could be deflated & cause very little drag & would also give good stability.However you wouldn't be able to transit horizontally on the surface.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Alec, I am not thinking flyer at all.? The water clarity would not support the speed.? I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere even off the deck of my boat.? It is just a though right now. For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome.? The visibility is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it.? As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus.? I had to fill the sub with steel plates to get it to sink.? :-) Hank? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM Indeed! Except mine went vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard procedure.? It was not going to have any freeboard to speak of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! ? ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, servos, PLCs, and such. Best, Alec > On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. > > >> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) >> Hank-------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 07:02:44 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 04:02:44 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <1189817798.991695.1432546837809.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1432551764.62772.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I was thinking about horizontal 12 inch dia tubes on each side that pivot. The tubes would always stay horizontal while the sub changes orientation. I also thought about a 24 inch inner tube, like you mention for a back up even. Surface transits could be problematic, maybe the sub could tip enough to raise the dome. Honestly had not thought of that. My main interest is to have the sub operate from my boat, so surface transits would be short and could be done in the vertical position. The forward thrusters would be on the end of the tanks. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Mon, 5/25/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 25, 2015, 5:40 AM Hank,how would you configure the ballast tanks?You could have something like a truck inner tube around the top sectionthat could be deflated & cause very little drag & would also give good stability.However you wouldn't be able to transit horizontally on the surface.Alan From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Alec, I am not thinking flyer at all.? The water clarity would not support the speed.? I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere even off the deck of my boat.? It is just a though right now. For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome.? The visibility is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it.? As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus.? I had to fill the sub with steel plates to get it to sink.? :-) Hank? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM Indeed! Except mine went vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard procedure.? It was not going to have any freeboard to speak of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! ? ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, servos, PLCs, and such. Best, Alec > On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. > > >> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) >> Hank-------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 08:28:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 08:28:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <1432523546.67791.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <6EC8F9E7-F908-4769-A5E0-0D1EA3B09643@gmail.com> <1432523546.67791.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds good, tiny and light is a major plus - particularly as you have a boat that can get you to a dive site and over the side. Alec On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 11:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alec, > I am not thinking flyer at all. The water clarity would not support the > speed. I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere > even off the deck of my boat. It is just a though right now. > > For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome. The visibility is > unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it. As > a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus. I had to fill the sub with > steel plates to get it to sink. :-) > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM > > Indeed! Except mine went > vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard > procedure. It was not going to have any freeboard to speak > of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and > watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical > was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the > very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and > constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", > a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I > bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many > years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a > classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles > the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, > conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a > conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as > the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion > was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both > unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! > ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a > mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just > the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical > simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, > servos, PLCs, and such. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > > On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > > Talk to Alec, he was building such a > design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately > decided against it...but I don't recall why. > > > > > >> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Yes, > you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get > in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away. > Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into > :-) > >> > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 09:10:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 06:10:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1432559441.86211.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alec, Any ideas or criticisms are welcome. Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 11:15:20 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 08:15:20 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Message-ID: Hank, Sounds like you need one of Phil's jet pack Newt Suits, that can fly back to port while you take a nap. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 05/24/2015 8:12 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Alec, I am not thinking flyer at all.? The water clarity would not support the speed.? I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere even off the deck of my boat.? It is just a though right now. For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome.? The visibility is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it.? As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus.? I had to fill the sub with steel plates to get it to sink.? :-) Hank? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM Indeed! Except mine went vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard procedure.? It was not going to have any freeboard to speak of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! ? ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, servos, PLCs, and such. Best, Alec > On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. > > >> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) >> Hank-------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 14:48:07 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 06:48:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67C8F05A-CE4E-40EB-BFBA-3F54C57BF413@yahoo.com> You cam have the auto return function for $70- http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__48219__Turnigy_T1000FC_Auto_Pilot_System_With_GPS_and_Return_To_Home.html They have it on remote control helicopters so if they loose signal their GPS flys them back to the launch point. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/05/2015, at 3:15 am, Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, Sounds like you need one of Phil's jet pack Newt Suits, that can fly back to port while you take a nap. > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 05/24/2015 8:12 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project > > > Alec, > I am not thinking flyer at all. The water clarity would not support the speed. I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere even off the deck of my boat. It is just a though right now. > > For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome. The visibility is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it. As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus. I had to fill the sub with steel plates to get it to sink. :-) > Hank -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM > > Indeed! Except mine went > vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard > procedure. It was not going to have any freeboard to speak > of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and > watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical > was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the > very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and > constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", > a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I > bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many > years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a > classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles > the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, > conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a > conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as > the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion > was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both > unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! > ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a > mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just > the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical > simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, > servos, PLCs, and such. > > Best, > > Alec > > > > > On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace > via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > > > > Talk to Alec, he was building such a > design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately > decided against it...but I don't recall why. > > > > > >> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Yes, > you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get > in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away. > Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into > :-) > >> > Hank-------------------------------------------- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 14:59:28 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 12:59:28 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video In-Reply-To: <420677013.946513.1432540520918.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1432347490.36154.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1YwCTB-0FCdea0@fwd10.t-online.de> <5560C079.7000107@telus.net> <1YwEHH-0Va9Gi0@fwd37.t-online.de> <116cae9a-2b81-4adb-8f2e-2416cd2c284a@email.android.com> <1YwW7S-1fGgl60@fwd06.t-online.de> <1YwhYJ-15ZuCW0@fwd39.t-online.de> <420677013.946513.1432540520918.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I suppose it would have been less memorable if the crew didn't start to henceforth refer to the black / yellow as "Stevenson stripes". Sean On May 25, 2015 1:55:20 AM MDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Enjoyed that. Great story Sean.?Alan >From: Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 2:16 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sgt Peppers new HD video > >E-Mail Software 6.0This reminds me of my early seafaring days, working >for the Canadian Coast Guard. I was working on deck one day when a >general alarm sounded. I started running (!) to my station, when I >passed a fellow deckhand operating an abrasive saw. With his ear >protectors on and the saw running, he couldn't hear the alarm, so >looked back to shout at him, but failed to stop running. I ran full >speed into the boom of a deck crane that happened to be just at >forehead height, knocking me flat on the deck.? Now, we had been at sea >for several weeks at that point, working on rotating shifts, so I >wasn't really aware of the date or day of the week, which happened to >be the first questions asked of me by the hospital doctor later that >day! ...Anyway, I was diagnosed with a mild concussion and sent back to >the ship with orders to be put on light duty for a few days.? The >"light duty" they gave me? Paint yellow and black safety stripes on >everything near head height.Sean > > >On May 24, 2015 7:51:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >185 Head High under the frames in the main corridor?- I am 183?cm ? :-) > > > > >But sometimes a alarm light is an the way - special at non alarm >condition.. >The rules should notice something like - "No alam lights in head hight" >or so.. > >In the machinery space it is the same with the side rudder servo. >The rules should notice something like - "No servo gear in head hight" >or so.. > >Muhaaaa.. > >vbr Carsten > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >It is an interesting point. I just looked up the ABS ergonomics guide. >For walkways, they require minimum 2130 mm (84 in) overhead, and 710 mm >(28 in) width for single-person access, or 915 mm (36 in) for a two-way >passage.? Of course, that is for surface ships. Military submarines I'm >sure are more compact.How much room did you design into the Euronaut >main corridor?Sean > > >On May 24, 2015 7:39:00 AM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >196 cm is to long for a submariner or Psuber. >We should shorten you some 15 cm..? > >:-0 > >Carsten > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >196 cm. Deckhead beams and low doorways are not my friend...Sean > > >On May 23, 2015 12:35:00 PM MDT, ""Carsten Standfu?" via >Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >Longer than 184 cm??74.44 inch - 6 feet > >"Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > schrieb: >> Easy there. For some of us the constraint is length. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On 2015-05-23 10:40, "Carsten Standfu?" via Personal_Submersibles >wrote: >> > This submarine is a good starter to do something for your body. >> > >> > If you fit in your can count yourself as a young, dynamik, sporty >etc.. >> > >> > If you not fit in you may come from Springfield.. >> > >> > vbr Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >? >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >? >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 16:09:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 20:09:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <1432559441.86211.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432559441.86211.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <539394471.187185.1432584552398.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, I share your interest in driving psubs designs smaller to make them easier to deploy, transport and fabricate. Sg.? Pepper is sill one of my favorite psubs.? I went through many design calcs on a design much like your describe with the ability of a small 1-atm central pressure hull to pivot relative to MBTs pods that remain horizontal while trying to meet constraints of ABS.? What I found is that ABS is not kind to small psubs like this.? I found that it was almost impossible to meet the?minimum ?GB-CG constraint without using mercury to radially shift CG on the fly?which is against ABS rules.?The other issue I found problematic is trying to meet the ABS minimum free board rule?and the loss of surface stability on these designs if you retain the ability to rotate.? For these micro psubs, excessively tall humans like Sean (ha ha)?kill surface stability when you get in and out in an emergency situation on the surface.? I think it is ?possibly doable if you ignore ABS freeboard? and mercury rules.?In the spirit of KISS, much beloved in Alec's new boat, ?I finally gave up on trying to pivot the pressure hull?and have been working on a small psub in which the pilot remains vertical and tilted forward but without the ability for the pilot to rotate the boat.? Batteries pods??hung low at the?pilots?feet generate very nice CG-CB spread ?to enhance stability but make it harder to launch with conventional trailer arrangement.? Also without the ability to pivot, much like a scuba diver does is going from a surface orientation to a submerged orientation, visibility becomes an issue unless you live in Roatan. To me, there is lot of romance to designing and building a 1-atm self contained DIY psub much like the old?JIM atmospheric body suits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIM_suit?but it is not going to be?easy.? Sean, at one time, I think I remember you being interested in designing a one atm. body suit.? Did you ever make any progress on this? Hank, at the speed you fabricate stuff, I suspect you will have all this sorted out and a boat in the water by time I finish this email.? Let us know how you come along with the concept. Cliff From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project | Alec, Any ideas or criticisms are welcome. Hank | From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Sent: Mon, May 25, 2015 12:28:28 PM | Sounds good, tiny and light is a major plus - particularly as you have a boat that can get you to a dive site and over the side.? Alec On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 11:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I am not thinking flyer at all.? The water clarity would not support the speed.? I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere even off the deck of my boat.? It is just a though right now. For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome.? The visibility is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it.? As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus.? I had to fill the sub with steel plates to get it to sink.? :-) Hank? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM ?Indeed! Except mine went ?vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard ?procedure.? It was not going to have any freeboard to speak ?of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and ?watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical ?was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the ?very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and ?constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", ?a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I ?bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many ?years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a ?classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles ?the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, ?conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a ?conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as ?the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion ?was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both ?unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! ? ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a ?mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just ?the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical ?simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, ?servos, PLCs, and such. ?Best, ?Alec ?> On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace ?via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?> ?> ?> Talk to Alec, he was building such a ?design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately ?decided against it...but I don't recall why. ?> ?> ?>> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via ?Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?>> Yes, ?you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get ?in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? ?Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into ?:-) ?>> ?Hank-------------------------------------------- ?> ?> ?_______________________________________________ ?> Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles | _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 16:53:51 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 14:53:51 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <539394471.187185.1432584552398.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1432559441.86211.YahooMailMobile@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <539394471.187185.1432584552398.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I did some work on a 1 ATM suit, but it was more like the WASP suit, with no legs. After several iterations, I decided that it wasn't quite dexterous enough to replace a wet diver, while at the same time being too limited in its advantages over a larger and more capable vehicle. By the time I actually build something, I expect to be quite a bit older... I want my sub to have comfortable bucket seats and coffee cup holders. Sean On May 25, 2015 2:09:12 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >Hank, I share your interest in driving psubs designs smaller to make >them easier to deploy, transport and fabricate. Sg.? Pepper is sill one >of my favorite psubs.? I went through many design calcs on a design >much like your describe with the ability of a small 1-atm central >pressure hull to pivot relative to MBTs pods that remain horizontal >while trying to meet constraints of ABS.? What I found is that ABS is >not kind to small psubs like this.? I found that it was almost >impossible to meet the?minimum ?GB-CG constraint without using mercury >to radially shift CG on the fly?which is against ABS rules.?The other >issue I found problematic is trying to meet the ABS minimum free board >rule?and the loss of surface stability on these designs if you retain >the ability to rotate.? For these micro psubs, excessively tall humans >like Sean (ha ha)?kill surface stability when you get in and out in an >emergency situation on the surface.? I think it is ?possibly doable if >you ignore ABS freeboard? and mercury rules.?In the spirit of KISS, >much beloved in Alec's new boat, ?I finally gave up on trying to pivot >the pressure hull?and have been working on a small psub in which the >pilot remains vertical and tilted forward but without the ability for >the pilot to rotate the boat.? Batteries pods??hung low at >the?pilots?feet generate very nice CG-CB spread ?to enhance stability >but make it harder to launch with conventional trailer arrangement.? >Also without the ability to pivot, much like a scuba diver does is >going from a surface orientation to a submerged orientation, visibility >becomes an issue unless you live in Roatan. >To me, there is lot of romance to designing and building a 1-atm self >contained DIY psub much like the old?JIM atmospheric body suits >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIM_suit?but it is not going to be?easy.? >Sean, at one time, I think I remember you being interested in designing >a one atm. body suit.? Did you ever make any progress on this? >Hank, at the speed you fabricate stuff, I suspect you will have all >this sorted out and a boat in the water by time I finish this email.? >Let us know how you come along with the concept. >Cliff > > > > >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 3:10 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project > > >| Alec, >Any ideas or criticisms are welcome. >Hank | > > > > >From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles >; >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >; > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project > Sent: Mon, May 25, 2015 12:28:28 PM > > >| Sounds good, tiny and light is a major plus - particularly as you >have a boat that can get you to a dive site and over the side.? >Alec >On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 11:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > >Alec, >I am not thinking flyer at all.? The water clarity would not support >the speed.? I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch >anywhere even off the deck of my boat.? It is just a though right now. > >For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome.? The visibility >is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth >it.? As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus.? I had to fill the >sub with steel plates to get it to sink.? :-) >Hank? -------------------------------------------- >On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project >?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > >?Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM > >?Indeed! Except mine went >?vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard >?procedure.? It was not going to have any freeboard to speak >?of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and >?watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical >?was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the >?very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and >?constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", >?a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I >?bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many >?years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a >?classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles >?the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, >?conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a >?conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as >?the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion >?was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both >?unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! >? ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a >?mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just >?the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical >?simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, >?servos, PLCs, and such. > >?Best, > >?Alec > > > >?> On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace >?via Personal_Submersibles >?wrote: >?> >?> >?> Talk to Alec, he was building such a >?design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately >?decided against it...but I don't recall why. >?> >?> >?>> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via >?Personal_Submersibles wrote: >?>> Yes, >?you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get >?in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? >?Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into >?:-) >?>> >?Hank-------------------------------------------- >?> >?> >?_______________________________________________ >?> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >?> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >?> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >?_______________________________________________ >?Personal_Submersibles mailing list >?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > | > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 25 19:37:58 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 16:37:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: <539394471.187185.1432584552398.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1432597078.51677.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Hi Cliff, Thank you for your input, there is much to consider. I am not sure that I want such a big challenge. It may be possible with full length ballast tanks that can be locked into position with a wide stance. If the ballast tanks have sufficient volume to have 1/2 of the tank above the water line it may work. I think I will make a scale model before I bust out the welder :-) Hank On Mon, 5/25/15, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Monday, May 25, 2015, 4:09 PM Hank, I share your interest in driving psubs designs smaller to make them easier to deploy, transport and fabricate. Sg.? Pepper is sill one of my favorite psubs.? I went through many design calcs on a design much like your describe with the ability of a small 1-atm central pressure hull to pivot relative to MBTs pods that remain horizontal while trying to meet constraints of ABS.? What I found is that ABS is not kind to small psubs like this.? I found that it was almost impossible to meet the?minimum ?GB-CG constraint without using mercury to radially shift CG on the fly?which is against ABS rules.?The other issue I found problematic is trying to meet the ABS minimum free board rule?and the loss of surface stability on these designs if you retain the ability to rotate.? For these micro psubs, excessively tall humans like Sean (ha ha)?kill surface stability when you get in and out in an emergency situation on the surface.? I think it is ?possibly doable if you ignore ABS freeboard? and mercury rules.?In the spirit of KISS, much beloved in Alec's new boat, ?I finally gave up on trying to pivot the pressure hull?and have been working on a small psub in which the pilot remains vertical and tilted forward but without the ability for the pilot to rotate the boat.? Batteries pods??hung low at the?pilots?feet generate very nice CG-CB spread ?to enhance stability but make it harder to launch with conventional trailer arrangement.? Also without the ability to pivot, much like a scuba diver does is going from a surface orientation to a submerged orientation, visibility becomes an issue unless you live in Roatan. To me, there is lot of romance to designing and building a 1-atm self contained DIY psub much like the old?JIM atmospheric body suits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIM_suit?but it is not going to be?easy.? Sean, at one time, I think I remember you being interested in designing a one atm. body suit.? Did you ever make any progress on this? Hank, at the speed you fabricate stuff, I suspect you will have all this sorted out and a boat in the water by time I finish this email.? Let us know how you come along with the concept. Cliff From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Alec, Any ideas or criticisms are welcome. Hank From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles ; To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Sent: Mon, May 25, 2015 12:28:28 PM Sounds good, tiny and light is a major plus - particularly as you have a boat that can get you to a dive site and over the side.? Alec On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 11:12 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I am not thinking flyer at all.? The water clarity would not support the speed.? I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere even off the deck of my boat.? It is just a though right now. For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome.? The visibility is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it.? As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus.? I had to fill the sub with steel plates to get it to sink.? :-) Hank? -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project ?To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" ?Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM ?Indeed! Except mine went ?vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard ?procedure.? It was not going to have any freeboard to speak ?of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and ?watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical ?was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the ?very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and ?constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", ?a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I ?bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many ?years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a ?classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles ?the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, ?conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a ?conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as ?the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion ?was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both ?unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! ? ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a ?mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just ?the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical ?simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, ?servos, PLCs, and such. ?Best, ?Alec ?> On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace ?via Personal_Submersibles ?wrote: ?> ?> ?> Talk to Alec, he was building such a ?design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately ?decided against it...but I don't recall why. ?> ?> ?>> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via ?Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?>> Yes, ?you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get ?in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away.? ?Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into ?:-) ?>> ?Hank-------------------------------------------- ?> ?> ?_______________________________________________ ?> Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 26 20:33:43 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 17:33:43 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] minkota test Message-ID: <1432686823.72549.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Tim, A quick way to test your motor, remove the prop, spin motor with drill, put volt meter on + and - and if the motor works it will produce a current. If you have two motors on the same power source, spin one prop by hand and the prop on the other motor will turn in steps. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 01:14:47 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 22:14:47 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] minkota test In-Reply-To: <1432686823.72549.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432686823.72549.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005d01d0983c$0e0ae880$2a20b980$@telus.net> Thanks, Hank. Okay, sounds like an informative test. There may be corrosion in the junction box. I will know more when I open the access panel. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May-26-15 5:34 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] minkota test Tim, A quick way to test your motor, remove the prop, spin motor with drill, put volt meter on + and - and if the motor works it will produce a current. If you have two motors on the same power source, spin one prop by hand and the prop on the other motor will turn in steps. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 08:22:50 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 13:22:50 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub Message-ID: Just thinking at work of sub projects and the up-ending sub idea. (slow day at work). Has anyone every made an acrylic tube sub? It just occurred to me that it may be possible to get a peppers size tube, fit a cap on one end and a dome on the other. Entry through the dome. Similar to a 1 man hyperbaric chamber. You'd have a completely clear boat. That would be pretty interesting. Just thinking..... Regards James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 09:08:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 09:08:12 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi James, The short answer is there have been lots of acrylic subs, but I don't believe any at the PSUBS level of budget. Have you seen the wonderful documentary about Paul Moorehouse's sub Alicia? That is a must see for anyone contemplating this. Best, Alec On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 8:22 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just thinking at work of sub projects and the up-ending sub idea. > (slow day at work). > > Has anyone every made an acrylic tube sub? It just occurred to me that it > may be possible to get a peppers size tube, fit a cap on one end and a dome > on the other. Entry through the dome. Similar to a 1 man hyperbaric > chamber. > > You'd have a completely clear boat. That would be pretty interesting. > > Just thinking..... > > Regards > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 10:50:45 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 15:50:45 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, Yes, ive seen some of them. Also the Alicia video which is very good like you say. I was thinking more of a peppers size acrylic sub\tube. On 27 May 2015 at 14:08, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > > The short answer is there have been lots of acrylic subs, but I don't > believe any at the PSUBS level of budget. Have you seen the wonderful > documentary about Paul Moorehouse's sub Alicia? That is a must see for > anyone contemplating this. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 8:22 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Just thinking at work of sub projects and the up-ending sub idea. >> (slow day at work). >> >> Has anyone every made an acrylic tube sub? It just occurred to me that >> it may be possible to get a peppers size tube, fit a cap on one end and a >> dome on the other. Entry through the dome. Similar to a 1 man hyperbaric >> chamber. >> >> You'd have a completely clear boat. That would be pretty interesting. >> >> Just thinking..... >> >> Regards >> James >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 14:11:26 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 14:11:26 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Attendance Roll Call Message-ID: All, I recently requested a roll call of anyone attending the convention. Unfortunately I experienced some email issues right after. I need to ask again that if you are attending the convention please respond off list to psub101 at indy.rr.com. Sorry for the second request but it is important I get our list solidified so I might coordinate with the Navy/ISR. Thanks, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 14:30:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 06:30:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: James, we discussed the acrylic tube sub several years ago. You can buy large diameter acrylic tube for aquariums, out of China. The pieces I saw were reasonably priced, but not cast. You would have to have reinforcement rings along the cylinder. If you bought a small section at a slightly narrower diameter than your main hull section, you may be able to slice it up & use it as reinforcement rings. It would end up a shallow diving sub & in a submersible the size of Sgt Peppers you would only be able to look forward anyway. Maybe Carsten could approach the submarine museum in Cherbourg as it would be the type of item they would like. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/05/2015, at 12:22 am, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just thinking at work of sub projects and the up-ending sub idea. (slow day at work). > > Has anyone every made an acrylic tube sub? It just occurred to me that it may be possible to get a peppers size tube, fit a cap on one end and a dome on the other. Entry through the dome. Similar to a 1 man hyperbaric chamber. > > You'd have a completely clear boat. That would be pretty interesting. > > Just thinking..... > > Regards > James > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 14:30:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 06:30:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: James, we discussed the acrylic tube sub several years ago. You can buy large diameter acrylic tube for aquariums, out of China. The pieces I saw were reasonably priced, but not cast. You would have to have reinforcement rings along the cylinder. If you bought a small section at a slightly narrower diameter than your main hull section, you may be able to slice it up & use it as reinforcement rings. It would end up a shallow diving sub & in a submersible the size of Sgt Peppers you would only be able to look forward anyway. Maybe Carsten could approach the submarine museum in Cherbourg as it would be the type of item they would like. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/05/2015, at 12:22 am, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just thinking at work of sub projects and the up-ending sub idea. (slow day at work). > > Has anyone every made an acrylic tube sub? It just occurred to me that it may be possible to get a peppers size tube, fit a cap on one end and a dome on the other. Entry through the dome. Similar to a 1 man hyperbaric chamber. > > You'd have a completely clear boat. That would be pretty interesting. > > Just thinking..... > > Regards > James > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 15:54:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 15:54:38 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Attendance Roll Call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm attending Alec On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, I recently requested a roll call of anyone attending the convention. > Unfortunately I experienced some email issues right after. > > I need to ask again that if you are attending the convention please > respond off list to psub101 at indy.rr.com. Sorry for the second request but > it is important I get our list solidified so I might coordinate with the > Navy/ISR. > > Thanks, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 16:59:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 13:59:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1432760376.87831.YahooMailBasic@web125406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Alan, I paid around 1,200 dollars I think for my 26 in cast acrylic cylinder that is 1 foot ling. So it might be around 7,200 for six feet, that is not bad and it is from Reynolds Polymer. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/27/15, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Wednesday, May 27, 2015, 2:30 PM James, we discussed the acrylic tube sub several years ago. You can buy large diameter acrylic tube for aquariums, out of China. The pieces I saw were reasonably priced, but not cast. You would have to have reinforcement rings along the cylinder. If you bought a small section at a slightly narrower diameter than your main hull section, you may be able to slice it up & use it as reinforcement rings. It would end up a shallow diving sub & in a submersible the size of Sgt Peppers you would only be able to look forward anyway. Maybe Carsten could approach the submarine museum in Cherbourg as it would be the type of item they would like. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/05/2015, at 12:22 am, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just thinking at work of sub projects and the up-ending sub idea.? (slow day at work). >? > Has anyone every made an acrylic tube sub?? It just occurred to me that it may be possible to get a peppers size tube, fit a cap on one end and a dome on the other.? Entry through the dome.? Similar to a 1 man hyperbaric chamber. >? > You'd have a completely clear boat.? That would be pretty interesting. >? > Just thinking..... >? > Regards > James > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 17:06:05 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 23:06:05 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: <1721279750.1014204.1431698038181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <505757013.198388.1431682902778.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1721279750.1014204.1431698038181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, For my Pilot Fish project I ordered a cheap Airmar P79 sensor also with NMEA 183 comms to use as a depth sounder, but I am struggling to find info on the pinout: which cable color is which... did you find info on this? regards Antoine On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm > pod is necessary for 500ft. My guess is most of these are fully potted and > cab take the pressure. > > BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800 DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - > Airmar Marine Transducers > part > of my R300 upgrade. This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water > temp. The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will > connect via RS232 serial feed into a coprocessor on my PLC. I then can > parse the string to get data. I am using the same coprocessor so parse > another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading. This transducer > is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. > > I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where > these fish finder sounders are cheap. > > Cliff > > > > Cliff Redus > Redus Engineering > USA mobile: 830-931-1280 > cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple of > exhibitors about sonar / depth sounders. > I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking > sonar inside > a fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in > water mounting. > They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar > through fiberglass. > Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front > of the submarine > with a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that. > For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. > Safety factor of 4 for > plastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth. > Quote from installation pdfs below...... > As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on many > fiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside of > the boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonar > characteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass through > the boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must be > single layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any air > trapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent the > sonar signal from passing through. > Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into the > boat and through experimentation, high-speed operation > comparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-part > slow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place. > ......*In-hull:* Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the > in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? > transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside > of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice > for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of > high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or > potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed > while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with > thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline > so that the transducer is in the water at all times. > In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no > foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer > can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install > inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core > material. > Alan > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > > Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. > They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. > Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than > the Sinrad 2d. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Alan, > > Check this system out, you probably have seen it. This would be very > nice to have. > > Hank > >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: > >> > >> From: hank pronk > >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar > >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" > >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM > >> > >> > >> > >> > http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 18:19:29 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 22:19:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar In-Reply-To: References: <505757013.198388.1431682902778.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1721279750.1014204.1431698038181.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1039481415.844298.1432765169611.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Antoine,airmar produce most of the transducers for lowrance.Below is an airmar link to several common wiring diagrams.Airmar FAQ - Common Wiring Diagrams? | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Airmar FAQ - Common Wiring Diagrams?Below is a list of commonly used wiring diagrams for popular fishfinder and ... | | | | View on faq.airmar.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Alan From: Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Hi Cliff,?For my Pilot Fish project I ordered a cheap Airmar P79 sensor also with NMEA 183 comms to use as a depth sounder, but I am struggling to find info on the pinout: which cable color is which... did you find info on this? regardsAntoine On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am not sure packaging a fish finder sounder transducer in a 1-atm pod is necessary for 500ft.? My guess is most of these are fully potted and cab take the pressure.? BTW, I am implementing a Airmar DST800?DST800 ?Thru-Hull, Smart? Sensor - Airmar Marine Transducers?part of my R300 upgrade.? This sensor will give me altitude, speed and water temp.? The sensor sends out a NMEA 0183 ASCII sentence string that I will connect via RS232 serial?feed?into a coprocessor on my PLC.? I then can parse the string to get data.? I am using the same coprocessor so parse another transducer that gives me roll, pitch and heading.? This transducer is packaged in a custom 1-atm anodized aluminum housing. I looked at ROV sounders but these are expensive at $1500-$4000 each where these fish finder sounders are cheap.? Cliff Cliff Redus Redus Engineering USA mobile:??830-931-1280 cliffordredus at sbcglobal.com From: Alan James via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Have just come back from the local boat show after talking to a couple ofexhibitors about sonar / depth sounders.I am still finding my way here. Was told I could mount a forward looking sonar insidea fiberglass hull & would loose about 15% of my range as apposed to in water mounting.They said the depth sounder worked better than the forward looking sonar through fiberglass.Why not have a small view port type arrangement in the bottom or up front of the submarinewith a fiberglass plate in it. Then glue the transducer to that.For a 3" diameter fiberglass plate .55" thick, I get a 4000ft crush depth. Safety factor of 4 forplastics I think, so 500ft capable operating depth.Quote from installation pdfs below......As an alternative to transom mounting, it is possible on manyfiberglass-hulled boats to glue the transducer on the inside ofthe boat hull. Since fiberglass has similar sonarcharacteristics as water, the sonar signal can pass throughthe boat hull with minimal loss. The hull of the boat must besingle layer construction (not double-hulled) Also, any airtrapped in the lamination of the fiberglass would prevent thesonar signal from passing through.Inside the hull installations require no holes be drilled into theboat and through experimentation, high-speed operationcomparable to transom mounting can be achieved. Two-partslow cure epoxy (not included) is required to glue the transducer in place.......In-hull:?Installed against the inside of the hull bottom, the in-hull transducer sends its signal through the hull. ?Shoot through hull? transducers do not need direct water contact. They?re glued to the inside of the hull with silicone or epoxy. An in-hull transducer is a good choice for a trailered boat, a vessel with a stepped hull, and for other types of high performance hull designs, as there is no drag, hull penetration or potential for fouling. No integrated temperature sensor. Can be installed while boat is in the water. For deadrise angles up to 30 degrees. As with thru-hulls, the selected location should be aft and close to the centerline so that the transducer is in the water at all times.In-hull transducers need solid fiberglass at the mounting location; no foam or plywood coring material, or air pockets. A typical 600W transducer can transmit through 1/2" to 5/8" (12-16mm) of fiberglass. To install inside a cored hull, find a location with no coring or remove the core material.Alan From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar Looks really nice Hank, but couldn't find a price. They are marketing to ship owners not recreational boat market. Had looked at other 3d forward scanners & they are quite a bit more than the Sinrad 2d. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/05/2015, at 12:26 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alan, > Check this system out, you probably have seen it.? This would be very nice to have. > Hank >> --- On Sun, 5/10/15, hank pronk wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk >> Subject: DOSITS: Forward Looking Sonar >> To: "hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca" >> Received: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 8:25 AM >> >> >> >> http://www.dosits.org/technology/locatingobjectsusingsonar/forwardlookingsonar/ > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 20:17:22 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 17:17:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks Message-ID: <1432772242.44968.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I need to replace my new ballast tanks :-( they are just a bit to small when the sub is fully weighted. The sub works with them but sits a bit lower in the front and it bugs me. The current tanks are 18 imperial gallon. I have started installing new 24 imp gallon steel tanks and should be ready to dive next week. I might have to widen the cart again :-( grrrr Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 21:40:57 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 18:40:57 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks In-Reply-To: <1432772242.44968.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1432772242.44968.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004001d098e7$595ba530$0c12ef90$@telus.net> Grrrr, Hank? Come on, we know you love doing that stuff. Keeps you thinking and active. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May-27-15 5:17 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks I need to replace my new ballast tanks :-( they are just a bit to small when the sub is fully weighted. The sub works with them but sits a bit lower in the front and it bugs me. The current tanks are 18 imperial gallon. I have started installing new 24 imp gallon steel tanks and should be ready to dive next week. I might have to widen the cart again :-( grrrr Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 27 21:52:48 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:52:48 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <556674F0.3090000@archivale.com> Acrylic spheres, yes, but a sub incorporating an acrylic tube as part of the working space. Haven't seen that. Marc On 5/27/2015 9:08 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi James, > > The short answer is there have been lots of acrylic subs, but I don't > believe any at the PSUBS level of budget. Have you seen the wonderful > documentary about Paul Moorehouse's sub Alicia? That is a must see for > anyone contemplating this. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 8:22 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Just thinking at work of sub projects and the up-ending sub idea. > (slow day at work). > Has anyone every made an acrylic tube sub? It just occurred to me > that it may be possible to get a peppers size tube, fit a cap on one > end and a dome on the other. Entry through the dome. Similar to a > 1 man hyperbaric chamber. > You'd have a completely clear boat. That would be pretty interesting. > Just thinking..... > Regards > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 28 01:30:17 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 22:30:17 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub In-Reply-To: <556674F0.3090000@archivale.com> References: <556674F0.3090000@archivale.com> Message-ID: <004501d09907$62f15bb0$28d41310$@telus.net> The SST Vista Ranger is one. There have been a few small tourist types out there. The vertical cylinder sub is a small tourist sub in Bora Bora. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May-27-15 6:53 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Acrylic tube sub Acrylic spheres, yes, but a sub incorporating an acrylic tube as part of the working space. Haven't seen that. Marc On 5/27/2015 9:08 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi James, > > The short answer is there have been lots of acrylic subs, but I don't > believe any at the PSUBS level of budget. Have you seen the wonderful > documentary about Paul Moorehouse's sub Alicia? That is a must see for > anyone contemplating this. > > Best, > > Alec > > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 8:22 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Just thinking at work of sub projects and the up-ending sub idea. > (slow day at work). > Has anyone every made an acrylic tube sub? It just occurred to me > that it may be possible to get a peppers size tube, fit a cap on one > end and a dome on the other. Entry through the dome. Similar to a > 1 man hyperbaric chamber. > You'd have a completely clear boat. That would be pretty interesting. > Just thinking..... > Regards > James > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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The Grrrrr is because I have widened the cart two times already and now a third, gets old. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/27/15, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Received: Wednesday, May 27, 2015, 9:40 PM Grrrr, Hank?? Come on, we know you love doing that stuff.? Keeps you thinking and active. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May-27-15 5:17 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks I need to replace my new ballast tanks :-( they are just a bit to small when the sub is fully weighted. The sub works with them but sits a bit lower in the front and it bugs me.? The current tanks are 18 imperial gallon.? I have started installing new 24 imp gallon steel tanks and should be ready to dive next week. I might have to widen the cart again :-( grrrr Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 28 12:55:41 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 06:55:41 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks In-Reply-To: <1432812463.59153.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <004001d098e7$595ba530$0c12ef90$@telus.net> <1432812463.59153.YahooMailBasic@web125401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Pretty soon you will be able to use one of your house moving trailers or did you get rid of them? Rick On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Tim, I do enjoy the journey to a point. The Grrrrr is because I have > widened the cart two times already and now a third, gets old. > Hank-------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 5/27/15, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks > To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Received: Wednesday, May 27, 2015, 9:40 PM > > Grrrr, Hank? Come on, > we know you love doing that stuff. Keeps you > thinking and active. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto: > personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles > Sent: May-27-15 5:17 > PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks > > I need to replace my new > ballast tanks :-( they are just a bit to small when > the sub is fully weighted. The sub works with > them but sits a bit lower in > the front and > it bugs me. The current tanks are 18 imperial gallon. I > have > started installing new 24 imp gallon > steel tanks and should be ready to dive > next > week. I might have to widen the cart again :-( grrrr Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 28 19:18:53 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Kammerer via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 2015 Convention Attendance Roll Call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42ff7ae.4cca2.14d9cd23c77.Webtop.34@optonline.net> I am attending. ? John K. ? ? ? On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 03:54 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? I'm attending Alec On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: All, I recently requested a roll call of anyone attending the convention.? Unfortunately I experienced some email issues right after. I need to ask again that if you are attending the convention please respond off list to psub101 at indy.rr.com . Sorry for the second request but it is important I get our list solidified so I might coordinate with the Navy/ISR. Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 28 20:51:36 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 17:51:36 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1432860696.61287.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Rick, I hope pretty soon the cart will be the correct width. I use beams and dollies that steer instead of trailers :-) Hank-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/28/15, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Thursday, May 28, 2015, 12:55 PM Hank,Pretty soon you will be able to use one of your house moving trailers or did you get rid of them?Rick On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:27 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Tim, I do enjoy the journey to a point.? The Grrrrr is because I have widened the cart two times already and now a third, gets old. Hank-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 5/27/15, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ?Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks ?To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" ?Received: Wednesday, May 27, 2015, 9:40 PM ?Grrrr, Hank?? Come on, ?we know you love doing that stuff.? Keeps you ?thinking and active. ?-----Original Message----- ?From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] ?On Behalf Of hank pronk via ?Personal_Submersibles ?Sent: May-27-15 5:17 ?PM ?To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org ?Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma ballast tanks ?I need to replace my new ?ballast tanks :-( they are just a bit to small when ?the sub is fully weighted. The sub works with ?them but sits a bit lower in ?the front and ?it bugs me.? The current tanks are 18 imperial gallon.? I ?have ?started installing new 24 imp gallon ?steel tanks and should be ready to dive ?next ?week. I might have to widen the cart again :-( grrrr Hank ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ?_______________________________________________ ?Personal_Submersibles mailing list ?Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org ?http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri May 29 00:20:25 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 21:20:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901d099c6$cae0f860$60a2e920$@telus.net> How goes Seaquestor, David? Last we heard you were making excellent progress. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Seaquestor via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May-25-15 8:15 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Hank, Sounds like you need one of Phil's jet pack Newt Suits, that can fly back to port while you take a nap. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 05/24/2015 8:12 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project Alec, I am not thinking flyer at all. The water clarity would not support the speed. I am thinking of a simple tiny light sub that can launch anywhere even off the deck of my boat. It is just a though right now. For now I am enjoying my what seems gigantic bow dome. The visibility is unbelievable, the modification cost and effort has been well worth it. As a bonus, my payload is back to 500 lbs plus. I had to fill the sub with steel plates to get it to sink. :-) Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/24/15, Private via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new sub project To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Received: Sunday, May 24, 2015, 10:38 PM Indeed! Except mine went vertical only for emergency exit rather than as standard procedure. It was not going to have any freeboard to speak of in vertical mode, so you would climb out in a hurry and watch her sink from under you. The method of going vertical was dropping the emergency weight, which was located at the very front. More than the front actually, it stuck out and constituted your crash bar. The sub was a "flyer", a poor man's Deep Flight. I had her 90% complete when I bought Snoopy, and the flyer project sat untouched for many years while Snoopy took up all my time and served as a classroom. The sub I'm finally finishing up now recycles the flyer hull, but redone to be conventional. Well, conventional in the sense of having ballast tanks and a conning tower - she's actually a pretty bizarre beast as the folks who come to the convention will see! My conclusion was that a flyer must be great fun but requires both unusually clear water and a vessel capable of laun! ching the sub at the dive site. If I owned a mega yacht and cruised the Galapagos, a flyer would be just the thing. But what I'm aiming for now is radical simplicity, whereas the old one was all touch screens, servos, PLCs, and such. Best, Alec > On May 24, 2015, at 7:31 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Talk to Alec, he was building such a design years ago before he acquired SNOOPY and ultimately decided against it...but I don't recall why. > > >> On 5/24/2015 6:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes, you float it to the dock side, then tip it vertical to get in, close the hatch, tip it horizontal, and your away. Saves building a CT that my 200lb sexy frame can fit into :-) >> Hank-------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 30 18:59:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 18:59:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's an interesting propulsion concept: Message-ID: <556A40CC.3020003@ohiohills.com> Ultra-fast escape maneuver of an octopus-inspired robot http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.3984 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 30 23:09:38 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 20:09:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's an interesting propulsion concept: In-Reply-To: <556A40CC.3020003@ohiohills.com> References: <556A40CC.3020003@ohiohills.com> Message-ID: <001601d09b4f$3bb6ecf0$b324c6d0$@telus.net> An interesting concept. Not sure if it is something we can adopt and adapt. It would be more accurately described not so much as a robot but rather as an underwater rocket, because that is what it is. http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150206-scientists-develop-superfast-3d-print ed-octopus-submarine.html Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May-30-15 3:59 PM To: psubs list Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's an interesting propulsion concept: Ultra-fast escape maneuver of an octopus-inspired robot http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.3984 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 31 08:22:02 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 05:22:02 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Message-ID: <1433074922.41464.YahooMailBasic@web125403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Today Gamma is going for a proper 50 foot dive to ensure there are no problems with the new dome and ballast tanks. Lucky for me the cart was wide enough for the new steel ballast tanks. Next weekend will be the deep test. I am using a simple method for the deep test that I used on my little yellow sub. I will sent the high pressure air supply line to a hull penetrator that has a hp valve on the other side in the water. From the hp valve the air returns via another penetration to the ballast valves inside the sub that are left open. The hp valve has a linkage to a hinge with a stopper. Then I have a rope that attaches to the hinge mechanism, I simply pull on the rope at the surface and that moves the hinge and activates the air. I don't want the rope on the valve because I could damage it by pulling to hard. I will manually release the air from the ballast tanks until the sub is nearly submerged then put a weight on the hatch to send her down. Today's dive will determine the exact weight I need to add. Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 31 10:00:16 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 07:00:16 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Message-ID: <20150531070016.773217B5@m0048140.ppops.net> Hank, Does the hinge turn the valve on? I'm not getting your system. How is the HP air turned on? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 05:22:02 -0700 Today Gamma is going for a proper 50 foot dive to ensure there are no problems with the new dome and ballast tanks. Lucky for me the cart was wide enough for the new steel ballast tanks. Next weekend will be the deep test. I am using a simple method for the deep test that I used on my little yellow sub. I will sent the high pressure air supply line to a hull penetrator that has a hp valve on the other side in the water. From the hp valve the air returns via another penetration to the ballast valves inside the sub that are left open. The hp valve has a linkage to a hinge with a stopper. Then I have a rope that attaches to the hinge mechanism, I simply pull on the rope at the surface and that moves the hinge and activates the air. I don't want the rope on the valve because I could damage it by pulling to hard. I will manually release the air from the ballast tanks until the sub is nearly submerged then put a weight on the hatch to send her down. Today's dive will determine the exact weight I need to add. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 31 10:19:40 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 07:19:40 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: <20150531070016.773217B5@m0048140.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1433081980.91814.YahooMailBasic@web125404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Brian, The hinge is there so that the rope does not put a load on the valve. The hinge has a rod that goes to the hp ball valve lever. I am not good at explaining :-) I will send you a picture. Hank -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 5/31/15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Received: Sunday, May 31, 2015, 10:00 AM Hank,? Does the hinge turn the valve on????I'm not getting your system.? How is the HP air turned on? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 05:22:02 -0700 Today Gamma is going for a proper 50 foot dive to ensure there are no problems with the new dome and ballast tanks. Lucky for me the cart was wide enough for the new steel ballast tanks.???Next weekend will be the deep test.? I am using a simple method for the deep test that I used on my little yellow sub.? I will sent the high pressure air supply line to a hull penetrator that has a hp valve on the other side in the water.? From the hp valve the air returns via another penetration? to the ballast valves inside the sub that are left open.? The hp valve has a linkage to a hinge with a stopper.? Then I have a rope that attaches to the hinge mechanism, I simply pull on the rope at the surface and that moves the hinge and activates the air.? I don't want the rope on the valve because I could damage it by pulling to hard.? I will manually release the air from the ballast tanks until the sub is nearly submerged then put a weight on the hatch to send her down. Today's dive will determine the exact weight I need to add. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 31 19:11:24 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 16:11:24 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Coax Message-ID: <20150531161124.6772AA89@m0005296.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 31 21:11:12 2015 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 18:11:12 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] big lesson Message-ID: <1433121072.38930.YahooMailBasic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I learned a big expensive lesson today, when I was backing my cart and Gamma down the boat ramp, the ramp was super slimy and slippery. The cart lost traction and slid down the ramp and submerged about 15 feet down after sliding past the end of the ramp. Normally I have a winch line on it but it was working so well with posi track, I got over confident. Well my wife and I retrieved the cart, but the engine was flooded and we had no hydraulics for steering or moving. I bypassed the hydraulics and tried to pull the sub and cart onto the trailer with my brother pulling with his truck to help. Well in my haste I forgot the safety strap that prevents the sub from sliding off the cart when going up a steep grade. Well Gamma slid backwards off the cart onto the pavement :-( Wrecked my rudder and blocked the ramp, can't go ahead or back :-( Well I called a 22 ton crane in and 1,000 dollars later Gamma is sitting in my driveway. But while I was waiting for my brother to drive out to the lake to help me, I went diving and it was spectacular :-) Gamma is so rock solid with the new ballast tank system. Hank