[PSUBS-MAILIST] Over Pressure Valve

Fri Jun 19 08:44:05 EDT 2015

Snoopy's valve is just a round plate welded into the coning tower shell,
it's vertical.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:24 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>  Keith,
>
> Sorry, I just got home.  I was hoping Alec and some others with more
> experience than I have would chime in as I see has now happened.  There
> have been some good discussions on OP valves in the past.  I think some
> have installed a T (on its side) inside the sub so the air enters the
> horizontal portion, and any water that comes in goes down to a small trap
> or into a tube that leads to a reservoir.  Others just use a rag to catch
> the small amount of water.
>
> Alec, does the OP on the exterior of Snoopy point downward after it exits
> at the top?
>
> We've also discussed having an air pressure gauge or altimeter set to zero
> (1 atm) before diving.  If it indicates any pressure above that level at
> anytime during your dive, you'll know you'll have an over pressure
> situation to deal with as you surface and you'll have an indication of how
> severe that will be.  We've also discussed various things that could cause
> an over pressure condition.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim
>
>  In a message dated 6/18/2015 7:09:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
>
> If it opens when submerged, it is because air is on the way out, and that
> prevents water from coming in. Its like blowing through your nose
> underwater, your nose is open but if you're blowing, you don't get water in
> your lungs.
>
> Certainly you do get a little water in if you push the valve open manually
> while submerged, as a test. Or a few drops if you do so when surfaced to
> equalize, as the valve is all wet. But its nothing much.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Alec
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>> TEST!!!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:
>> personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via
>> Personal_Submersibles
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 4:28 PM
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Over Pressure Valve
>>
>> How do you keep water from going back down the valve, and into the sub,
>> if it opens when submerged?
>>
>> Keith T
>>
>> via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>> >If the pressure differential exceeds the preset cracking  pressure, the
>> >valve will open on its own to relieve the excess pressure.   If the
>> pressure
>> >differential is less than the cracking pressure, it would have  to be
>> >opened manually.  If the differential were only slightly greater than
>> >the preset cracking pressure, I suppose opening it manually would open
>> >it wider for more rapid equalization on many types of valves.
>> >Jim
>> >
>> >
>> >In a message dated 6/18/2015 2:40:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> >personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >Jim,
>> >           In that case  is it necessary to bump the sealed check valve
>> >to make it open?
>> >
>> >
>> >Alec,  I guess what I meant to say was if the check valve is left in
>> >an open line to the outside all the time, rather than being isolated by
>> >another valve.
>> >
>> >Brian
>> >
>> >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org  wrote:
>> >
>> >From: via Personal_Submersibles  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >To:  personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]  Idea..?
>> >Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:53:15 -0400
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Brian, it also has to do with cracking pressure.  When  you surface the
>> >sub might be slightly over pressure but not with enough  differential
>> >to open the valve automatically.  That's when you open it  manually.
>> >That would also equalize pressure if you have negative  pressure in the
>> >sub to make it a whole lot easier to open the  hatch.
>> >Jim
>> >
>> >
>> >In a message dated 6/18/2015 1:40:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> >personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
>> >
>> >It is nothing but a T shape sealed by a spring. If internal  pressure
>> >builds up, it pushes the spring and the valve opens. So it is a
>> >normally closed valve... but I suppose you could say its "open all the
>> >time"  in the sense that anytime pressure builds up, it will open.
>> >
>> >On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >Couldn't you, theoretically,  have that valve open to the  outside all
>> the
>> >time?
>> >
>> >Brian
>> >
>> >--- _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   wrote:
>> >
>> >From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..?
>> >Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 12:15:57  -0400
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >I think most have an OP valve, and I'd strongly encourage any  who
>> >don't to put one in. If you read Kittredge's book, the lack of an OP
>> >valve was the cause of the only K-boat accident so far. Fortunately
>> >nothing happened to him, but Kittredge had a slow cabin air leak during
>> >his dive and upon surfacing blew out the dome when just below the
>> >surface.  He was blown out himself with it. The sub sank, and he
>> >proceeded to  re-float it without losing beat. I use the OP valve
>> >routinely to  equalize pressure so I can open the hatch easily. Just a
>> >little push on  the stem does it. One thing about OP valves, they have
>> >to be capable of  handling large flow rates. Don't use a little Swagelok
>> check valve or such  small thing.
>> >
>> >
>> >Best,
>> >
>> >Alec
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >Also  Alec,   I noticed your check valve overpressure valve in the  photo
>> >section.  That seems like a great solution to the  problem!   I guess I
>> was
>> >not aware of that, does everybody  have one of those?
>> >
>> >
>> >Brian
>> >
>> >--- _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   wrote:
>> >
>> >From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..?
>> >Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 05:25:30  -0700
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >personally, I always avoid welding a machined part to the  hull.  I
>> >weld a flange or nipple to the hull then bolt or thread  the machined
>> part to that.
>> > This is my solution to a lack of  tooling and expertise.
>> >Hank  --------------------------------------------
>> >On Thu, 6/18/15, James  Frankland via Personal_Submersibles
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:
>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >  wrote:
>> >
>> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..?
>> >To:  "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >Received:  Thursday, June 18, 2015, 4:58  AM
>> >
>> >Hi
>> >Alec\Brian, Yes, maybe it  would
>> >push in.  A flat step would probably be better like  you
>> >say.  But maybe im over thinking it as usual.   Probably
>> >not required. Brian, I used the
>> >5\8ths  bar because that's what was specified on the
>> >plans.   However, its also convenient for using a 16mm
>> >reamer for the  bore.
>> >regardsJames
>> >On 18 June 2015  at 03:04,
>> >Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >wrote:
>> >Oh  cool !   Thanks Alec
>> >!    I owe you  much over the years
>> >! Brian
>> >--- _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >From:  Alec Smyth via
>> >Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)
>> >>
>> >Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..?
>> >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:40:56  -0400
>> >
>> >Hi Brian,
>> >I tend to use quite  thick
>> >through-hulls because its easier for me to machine  the O-ring grooves
>> >into the shaft than into the insert. In  my case its just a matter of
>> >the tooling I have on hand. If  you have the tooling to put the grooves
>> >in the insert, half  an inch is fine for many  applications.
>> >Best,
>> >
>> >Alec
>> >On
>> >Wed,  Jun 17, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >wrote:
>> >Alec,  James,  I'm
>> >using mostly 1/2" stainless rod through-out  for most all of my hull
>> >penetrations ( for valves and  flaps) ,  I noticed in the example it
>> >was a 5/8" rod,  Why such a heavy duty thickness?  Was that for a
>> >particular function? Brian
>> >
>> >--- _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >From:  Alec Smyth via
>> >Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >To:  Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> ><_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)
>> >>
>> >Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idea..?
>> >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:03:17  -0400
>> >
>> >Hi James,
>> >I think
>> >with the taper,  this would tend to push in and jam. The idea is neat,
>> >however,  and would probably work fine with a step instead of a taper.
>> >On  the other hand, does an O ring sealed through-hull ever fail
>> >catastrophically? I've had the odd drip, but that's all I've  bad as
>> >I've seen.
>> >Best,
>> >Alec
>> >On
>> >Wed,  Jun 17, 2015 at 12:26 PM, James Frankland  via
>> >Personal_Submersibles <_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_
>> >(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) >
>> >wrote:
>> >Hi  All Seeing as its a
>> >bit quite I thought I would show this  idea.  Its super simple.... I
>> >have been thinking  how you could stop a leaking through hull.
>> >Thinking of K  boat type 5\8th through hulls as in the plans. I
>> >believe Scott had a leak when he did his deep test due to a  faulty O
>> >ring?
>> >
>> >Anyway, here is my idea.   It
>> >would take a little bit more machining, but not  much.
>> >Machine the 5\8ths bar with a taper on the  protruding part and a taper
>> >on the top to help push the bar  through.
>> >(I did that on mine anyway).  The handle is  made with a cam type end.
>> >
>> >If you get  a
>> >leak, you can pull the handle up.  The bar would be  pulled up, forcing
>> >the taper to jam into the penetrator,  hopefully stopping most of the
>> >leak.  I suppose you could  even machine a matching taper into the
>> >start of the through  hull to match? I suppose the bar could get pushed
>> >through and jam on its own.  That's  a possibility. Pic attached. Kind
>> >RegardsJames 
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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