[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

Thu Jan 22 01:24:56 EST 2015

Hi Sean, I think I am missing the point on your explanation. I think I am understanding that you use air operated hydraulic valves but still with full hydraulic pressure.   If so, there is no proportional control.  Is that correct?

The DW had all the solenoid valves in a bank in the water outside from memory.  Hugh

From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Thursday, 22 January 2015 2:09 p.m.
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

There is another option, which may be a touch more expensive, but that is to use air-operated valves for the hydraulic system, which would be mounted outside without an enclosure and handle whatever hydraulic pressure you want to operate at, and then supply this pilot air from (relatively) low pressure solenoid valves inside the pressure boundary. This way, no oil can get inside in the event of failure, every air line can have a shutoff at the pressure boundary, and eg 24 VDC solenoids with small apertures and modest pressure ratings can be used.

Sean

On January 21, 2015 5:12:40 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

Allan,
There are benefits and draw backs as well.  The benefit is having the valve in the oil.  If not then the valve needs an enclosure around the solenoids filled with oil.  It is a pain in the butt. Next is the membrane lid, that eliminates the air bag deal.  So it just depends what your needs and expectations are.  
Hank

  _____  

On Wed, 1/21/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Wednesday, January 21, 2015, 6:40 PM

 Hank,they also
 use water hydraulics on the Remora rov.http://www.hydra-cell.com/applications/salt-water-pump.html
 I like the
 idea of Scott's, of housing the pump & shuttle
 valvesin an oil
 fi!
 lled
enclosure with flexible membrane for
 equalization;however I
 wonder if there is much advantage. You would still have
 tohave
 through hulls in that enclosure for hydraulic hoses &
 electricalpower
 & signals. You would end up with more through hulls
 &loose the
 ability to manually release pressure from the
 systemin an
 emergency.Alan

    From: hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

 To: Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion
 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 

 Sent:
 Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:01 PM

 Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

 Alan,
 When I
 had my tour of Nuytco, I saw the arms well actually a shelf
 full of them and the valves.  I assumed they were
 hydraulic, but maybe no!
 t.  It
could work with sea water,
 but fresh water could be problematic with freezing.
 Hank

  _____  

 On Wed, 1/21/15, Alan James via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:

  Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
  To:
 "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Received: Wednesday, January 21, 2015, 2:50
 PM

  Not sure,
  but don't the "Deep Workers"
 have
  a hydraulic
  system
 using sea water, with externalpump &

 valves.Does
  anyone know anything about
 this?Alan
          From:
  "swaters at waters-ks.com <mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com%0b%20via%20Personal_Submersibles> 
 via Personal_Submersibles"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

  To: Personal
  Submersibles General Discussion
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

  Sent:

 Thursday, January 22, 201!
 5 4:58
AM

 Subject: Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator
 arm

 My plan
  was to use O ring seal. I am using
 a comoensated
  system.Thanks,Scott
  Waters

  Sent
 from my U.S.
  Cellular® Smartphone

  -------- Original message
  --------
  From: hank pronk
 via
  Personal_Submersibles  
  Date:01/21/2015 
  9:41 AM 
 (GMT-06:00) 
  To: Personal

 Submersibles General Discussion  

 Subject:
  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator
 arm 

 Scott,
  You
  need to decide
 on what type of hyd system you are going with
  before you dive into cylinders.  If you are
 going with a
  pressure compensated system,
 you can use cylinders with a
  wiper seals on
 the shafts.  If you not pressure

 compensating, then use cylinders with o-!
 ring
seals on the
  shafts.  I would use o-ring sealed shafts
 regardless.

 Hank

  _____  

  On Wed, 1/21/15, swaters at waters-ks.com
 via
  Personal_Submersibles

 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:

   Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST]
  Manipulator arm
   To: "Personal

 Submersibles General Discussion"

 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

  Received: Wednesday, January
 21, 2015, 8:25 AM

 Gotcha.
   I
  got about 8
 different suppliers I have found so far with
   SS cylinders. I think I'll order a few
 to
  play with. I
   am also
 planning on using
  electric silionoids
 for
   controlling the

 valves.Thanks,Scott
   Waters

   Sent
   from my U.S.
  Cellular®
 Smartphone

  -------- Orig!
 inal
message --------
   From:
  hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles  

 Date:01/21/2015  6:54 AM  (GMT-06:00) 

  To: Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion  
   Subject: Re:
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm

  Scott,
   Gamma uses air
 cylinders with
  hydraulic fluid and
   pump.  The hydraulic

 system is very standard except it
   uses
 air
  cylinders in place of hydraulic
 cylinders.  

 Hank

  _____  

   On Tue, 1/20/15, swaters at waters-ks.com
 via
   Personal_Submersibles

  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:

    Subject:
 Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm
    To:
  "Personal
 Submersibles General Discussion"

 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
    Received: Tuesday, Jan!
 uary 20,
2015,
 10:27
  PM

    Is Gamma all air
 cylinders? Do you just
  use

   a air compressor? What happens to the

 air once it is in
   the

  cylinder and you want to lower the
 cylinder? Is it
    recompressed or somehow
 expelled? I really
  don't know
    crap about pnematics.

 Haha. Why do all the subs use

 hydrolics
  and not air. For example

  hydro-lek?Thanks,Scott
    Waters

    Sent

 from my U.S. Cellular® Smartphone

    -------- Original message --------
    From: hank pronk via
 Personal_Submersibles 

   Date:01/20/2015  9:06 PM  (GMT-06:00)

    To: Personal Submersibles General
  Discussion  
    Subject:
 Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator arm 

 Scott,
    Not sure why you want hydraulic
 cylinders. 
  You want

 air cylinders, they are light
  weight and
 all
   aluminum. 
    If
 you use 2 in bore air cylinders you can
  run
 on a 500
   psi

  system.  Also air cylinders typically have
 5/8 rods
   and
    that is
 the most
  important part.  The rod size
 is
   what
    the water
 pressure is pushing back against
  you
   system. 
    Air
  cylinders have a single o ring on the piston
 and are
    cheap and easy to replace. If
 you want ss
  rods then just

   replace the chrome rods
  when they wear
 out.  I made
   my
    own
 rods for Gamma, easy peezy.

 Hank

  _____  

    On Tue, 1/20/15, swaters at waters-ks.com
  via

Personal_Submersibles
    <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:

   Subject: Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator
 arm
     To:

 "Personal Submersibles General

  Discussion"

  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

  Received: Tuesday,
 January 20, 2015, 8:52 PM

     Hydrolic.
     Also what
 size bore does yoursub have

 Hank?Thanks,Scott Waters

     Sent
     from
 my
  U.S. Cellular® Smartphone

     -------- Original
 message --------
     From: hank pronk
 via
  Personal_Submersibles  

  Date:01/20/2015  7:34
 PM  (GMT-06:00) 

  To:
 Personal Submersibles General Discussion  
     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
 Manipulator
  arm 

 !

     Are you using
 hydraulic cylinders or air
  cylinders.

 Hank

  _____  

     On Tue, 1/20/15, swaters at waters-ks.com
  via

 Personal_Submersibles
     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:

     Subject:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulator
 arm
      To:

 "psubs"

 <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

    Received: Tuesday,
 January 20, 2015, 7:51 PM

      Does
      anyone have
 a reccomendation on a source
  for
    hydrolic

  cylinders? Ofcourse there are tons online,
 just
    wondering

 if
      someone has a particular place
 they like
  to get

 them.Thanks,Scott Waters

      Sent
      from my U.S.
 Cellular®

Smartphone

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