[PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge

Fri Sep 5 21:41:39 EDT 2014

Alan certainly raises some good points to consider. The swells on the
oceanside can get pretty crazy and can be hard to deal with even on an
average day.

My original thought was that we would store the barge out of the water in
the field beside our house down in the keys. We would need to ensure that
corrosion resistant materials and hardware were used throughout to prevent
deterioration in the harsh environment down there, but I think we'd be
okay.

But as the discussion turned to more of a group-owned barge idea, I began
to picture a more modular design that we could trailer to other convention
locations for sub support wherever we needed it. The barge would have full
maneuverability on its own via a small outboard (or perhaps even an
electric thruster system), but would rely on a tow vessel for traveling
long distances. Of course all of this is just theoretical at this point.

Launching with a jib boom on a small boat would certainly be difficult on
the oceanside, but I think with a catamaran-style barge and a gantry
arrangement it would be possible. Brian made a good suggestion that perhaps
when launching two submersibles in tandem, both could be lowered partway
into the water to reduce the center of gravity, and when the first sub off
was completely free of the gantry, the weight-in-air of the second vessel
would already be greatly reduced, allowing more stability.

The speed to be gained in transit with the use of a barge is important
(especially considering the heat of the Florida sun), but pales in
comparison with the ability to enter and exist submersibles with low
freeboard on the oceanside. Unfortunately last fall we had to completely
abort a dive with Snoopy for this reason. I don't know who was more
disappointed, Alec or me! ~ Douglas S.

On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 8:31 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

>
> Alec,
> I have to agree with Alan, barges are a big deal to store etc.  I am lucky
> to have stuff around to work with, one mans junk is another mans treasure
> :-)
> Hank--------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 9/5/14, Private via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge
>  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 8:12 PM
>
>  That is outrageously
>  good, and the cost is crazy low for the result. Plus, I love
>  the small items you just happen to have lying around in the
>  parts bin.
>
>  Hank, we should
>  all just buy it off you for two grand so you double your
>  investment, and we'd still be getting it for a small
>  fraction of what it would cost new.
>
>
>  Best,
>
>  Alec
>
>
>
>  > On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:56
>  PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >
>  wrote:
>  >
>  > I built my
>  barge for under 1,000 dollars plus the crane, witch I had
>  laying around.
>  > Hank
>  >
>  --------------------------------------------
>  > On Fri, 9/5/14, Brian Cox via
>  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>  >
>  > Subject:
>  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge
>  > To:
>  "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  > Received: Friday, September 5, 2014, 6:26
>  PM
>  >
>  > Sounds like a
>  lot of $$$
>  > dollar signs ! I wonder if
>  the subs
>  > were partially in the water if
>  it might make the barge more
>  > stable.
>  Brian
>  >
>  > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>  wrote:
>  >
>  > From:
>  Douglas Suhr via
>  >
>  Personal_Submersibles
>  > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  > To:
>  > Personal
>  Submersibles General Discussion
>  > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs
>  Barge
>  > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 18:02:58
>  -0400
>  >
>  > Or even
>  > if we could just find a couple of nice,
>  big aluminum tubes
>  > or fiberglass hulls
>  to work with, that would give us a major
>  > head start on designing the rest of the
>  system.
>  > Before we do anything else
>  though, I
>  > think we should consider
>  weights and sizes. Do we want to be
>  >
>  able to handle two subs at once, or just one? Or maybe an
>  > option of one large sub (5000lbs.) or two
>  small subs
>  > (2500lbs. each)? A sub is a
>  fairly dense item so trying to
>  > handle
>  two subs at once may present issues with stability
>  > (i.e. after the first sub has launched and
>  the second sub is
>  > on one end of the
>  barge, thrown in with a mix of wave
>  >
>  action... yikes! Launching two subs simultaneously is a
>  > possible solution but would present its
>  own challenges and
>  > dangers).
>  > I'd
>  > love to say
>  we'll just build it bigger, but I think
>  > it's important to keep this project
>  reasonable and road
>  > trailerable (even
>  if in stages) behind regular tow vehicles
>  > (and not tractor trailers).
>  > Perhaps limiting ourselves to a
>  > single-vessel barge would be best (and
>  would conform to the
>  > KISS guidelines),
>  but it would sure be nice to have a
>  >
>  two-vessel capability to get the most bang for our buck
>  in
>  > terms of diving per ocean trip.
>  Opinions?
>  >
>  >
>  > On
>  > Fri, Sep 5, 2014
>  at 5:42 PM, Cliff Redus via
>  >
>  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  > wrote:
>  > That would
>  be
>  > easier.  Maybe we should all be on
>  the lookout for used
>  > barge that we
>  could do a make over on.
>  >
>  >
>  > Cliff
>  >
>  >
>  >  From: "swaters at waters-ks.com
>  > via Personal_Submersibles"
>  >  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  >  To: Personal
>  >
>  Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  >
>  >  Sent: Friday,
>  September
>  > 5, 2014 4:38 PM
>  >  Subject: Re:
>  >
>  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Barge
>  >
>  >
>  > Is there any
>  > kind of used boat we could buy and
>  modify
>  > it?Thanks,Scott Waters
>  >
>  > Sent from my
>  > U.S. Cellular® Smartphone
>  >
>  > -------- Original
>  message
>  > --------
>  >
>  From: Cliff Redus via
>  >
>  Personal_Submersibles
>  >
>  Date:09/05/2014
>  > 3:57 PM  (GMT-06:00)
>
>  > To: Personal
>  >
>  Submersibles General Discussion
>  >
>  Subject:
>  > Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs
>  Barge
>  >
>  > From a
>  practical point of
>  >  view, if we did
>  build a PSub Launch barge, it would have to
>  > be fairly simple and follow the KISS
>  principle to get it of
>  > the drawing
>  board and built by a committee.  I for one
>  > don't have the time to design a self
>  powered ship.  I
>  > am thinking a larger
>  version of a typical pontoon boat that
>  >
>  could be towed by the Boston Whaler.  We would need
>  someone
>  > like Jon to be able to set up
>  something like a dropbox
>  > account that
>  anyone could populate with files, drawing,
>  > sketches, CAD files  etc.  We would have
>  to collectively
>  > establish the overall
>  capability of the barge ( how many
>  >
>  psubs, maximum weight of psubs, wench/davit system for
>  > launch and retrieval, auxiliary systems
>  such as lights).
>  > Someone that has a
>  3-D cad program like Inventor or
>  >
>  Solidworks would have to agree to take sketches and ideas
>  > folks come up with and build out 3-D model
>  that we could
>  > collectively critique and
>  make suggested changes to.
>  > Someone
>  would need to do
>  >  the basic
>  >  stability calcs with loaded or
>  > partially loaded deck.  Some one would
>  need to do some
>  > research on launch and
>  retrieval systems, such as davits
>  > or
>  winches and bring forward a couple of recommendations.
>  > Someone that is a welder (like Dan Lance)
>  would need to
>  > review the construction
>  drawing to make sure welding plan is
>  >
>  workable.  Someone would have to figure out where you
>  would
>  > store the barge when not in
>  use.  Some one would need to
>  > figure
>  out a coating plan for the barge.  Someone would
>  > have to take on looking at what
>  regulations we would need to
>  > meet to
>  use this in the Florida Keys.  Someone would have
>  > to do a material takeoff off construction
>  drawings and
>  > figure out the cost to
>  build and establish a budget.  If we
>  >
>  did build a psub barge, we would need to pole the group
>  and
>  > see how many would be willing to
>  split the cost to fabricate
>  > based on
>  the estimated cost.  We would need someone to
>  > agree
>  >  to fabricate
>  the weldments and assembly.  We would need
>  > to
>  >  figure out where
>  to build it and what it
>  > would cost to
>  transport it the Keys.  We would have to
>  > figure out how to register such a barge.
>  Would Psubs own the
>  > barge or would it
>  make since for Doug to own?  Are there
>  >
>  any legal liabilities of having such a barge and if so
>  who
>  > would be liable?  We would need
>  someone that is not
>  > currently building
>  a psub to agree to be the Barge
>  >
>  Bulldog!
>  >
>  > Or if
>  someone
>  > would agree to do all the
>  above, maybe we just pass the hat
>  > and
>  let them do it.
>  >
>  >
>  Cliff
>  >
>  >
>  > ________________________________
>  >  From: Douglas Suhr via
>  Personal_Submersibles
>  > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  > To: Personal Submersibles General
>  Discussion
>  > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  >
>  > Sent: Friday,
>  September 5, 2014 3:13 PM
>  > Subject: Re:
>  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Psubs Conference
>  >
>  2015
>  >
>  >
>
>  >
>  > What a rig
>  Brian, and a decomp
>  > chamber to
>  >  boot!
>  > I like the
>  idea of a group-designed
>  > and
>  group-built support ship, my only concern being the
>  > logistics of coordinating a project of
>  that magnitude.
>  > I'm sure it could
>  be done well given the proper
>  >
>  leadership and organization though, especially
>  considering
>  > the diverse skillset we
>  would share as a team from designing
>  > to
>  fabrication. And I don't think anyone would complain
>  > about the benefits of a support barge.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  _______________________________________________
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>  > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
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>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
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