[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
hank pronk
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca
Sun Jan 26 19:29:07 EST 2014
Vance,
Sorry, didn't mean to preach, can you tell I like Nekton subs :-)
Hank
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:19:43 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
Hank
You are preaching to the choir about the Nektons. Bullet proof is good!
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2014 7:15 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
Vance,
I got nothing against domes, :-) just the cost of them and really they don't shine until you go very deep. You can't beat the cool factor of the dome, unfortunately the average garage submarine builder will not peer through one. Also the garage sub guy will not have a ship or barge to launch a sub with domes. I think you could build a Gamma type sub for 300 feet for a pretty reasonable price. The geniuses in the Nekton subs is the simple construction and yet it is so robust. The design can be simplified further yet to reduce the cost.
Hank
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:52:13 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:
Makes you wonder what that kit would cost these days. Those of us who went to the Vancouver conference saw the SU up on a shelf. Luckily, I got to see it some years earlier when the Jules habitat people had it down in the Keys. It's a great looking little sub up close, as one would expect from the kids at 216 East Esplanade. I'm thinking she might be a little tight for someone of my currently svelte build, so that would be something to ponder ahead of time. But very cool, simple to operate, simple to maintain. No flat ports though, Hank. It's built with two domes, front and top. And a bit of squirm room for the pilot to get from sitting upright to lying down, but not much more than that. It's a minimalist's dream, and was very light, too, as I recall. I'd take one, given the opportunity. It would be a blast to run in Florida.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2014 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
I would think a sea urchin kit is a great idea, providing it has variable features. The sub would need to appeal to both budget levels. If it were designed so it could have low cost flat viewports or domes. Perhaps different levels of completion for the people who can do their own machining. The kit could accommodate different kinds of thruster packages again helping the low budget guy. A lower budget sub could get you into the water and as your finances allow it, the upgrades could be made because the sub is already designed for the upgrades.
Hank
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:34:12 PM, Phil Nuytten <phil at philnuytten.com> wrote:
Yes, as Vance says we did work up a pneumatic manip for the original ‘Sea
Urchin’ sub. The design criteria was: brute simple, three functions
(extend/retract, swing 90 degrees each side/ jaw open/close) and, above all,
CHEAP!! we used air cylinders, plastic tubing and three-way valves – one for
each function. The valves exhausted back into the sub cabin. The system pressure
was about 200 psi, as I recall, and the manip was operated independently from a
scuba pony tank mounted outside for that purpose. System pressure was kept
at 200 psi over bottom, regardless of depth by the first stage of a scuba
regulator with the spring shimmed to 200 psi and the reg yoked to the tank in
the usual fashion. Very simple system and it worked well – the exhaust into the
cabin was so small as to cause only a slight increase in cabin pressure because
the piston area is only a couple of square inches. Over pressure on a move into
shallower water was avoided by a circle-seal non-return vent valve – same one
used to suck a vacuum on the sub before diving.
I have some pretty good pictures of the manip on Sea Urchin which I’ll try
to dig up and post. Speaking of Sea Urchin, I have often toyed with the the idea
of putting out a Sea Urchin Kit – ala Kitteridge - but don’t know how much
interest there would be.
Phil
From: Alan James
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:54 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General
Discussion
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
Here is a great looking manipulator for .31c US.
Not
sure what the postage is from Poland. I tried the "buy now" on another link but
couldn't
initiate a purchase.
http://http//robosklep.eu/sklep/pl/p/Hydraulic-Arm/231
Alan
________________________________
From: Alan
James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General
Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:20
PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulators
Thanks Vance,
I'll
have a look in to the pneumatic manipulator; however there are
problems
that
come to mind, like how do you stop the whole unit going in & out like a
concertina
with
water pressure changes.
Alan
________________________________
From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Saturday, January
25, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Manipulators
I can't answer, as I have precisely
zero experience with pneumo manips. Nuytco did in fact cook one up for the Sea
Urchin, which seemed to work okay, but I don't know anything about it. Sorry.
That said, if it's cheap and it works (even if it's a pain in the ass) then it's
worth having. Subs should be able to DO something, not just cruise around like
an oversized camera housing with motors. I'd give serious consideration to the
ball and socket arm, which functions adequately down to about 600 feet
(according to the boys who have used them). We figure one would cost about
$500-600 USD to machine, plus material and welding. A thousand bucks or a little
more isn't bad, considering there are exactly three moving parts in the whole
thing (as opposed to a hydraulic system which has about 3 moving parts to the
running inch).
Vance
-----Original
Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2014
3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
One more question Vance & I'll leave you in peace
for a week.
For a small non commercial submersible operating to 500 ft
that has a very limited use for a manipulator other than it being there
just in case we come across some item of value. Is a pneumatic manipulator
a good
option? Air is already there & wouldn't be consumed much because
of the limited use. No noise & expensive space consuming hydraulic
system.
And as you say there are options for lifting heavier items.
Thanks,
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 25/01/2014, at 8:01 am, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
I particularly liked the PVC tube with the furled lift bag and air source, now that's got real "get work done" utility.
>
>It seems to me that a permanently mounted air
source terminating just aft of the claw is a natural companion set-up
for anyone with a manipulator on a PSUB.
>
>Joe
>
>Sent
from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>;
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
>Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2014 6:09:42 PM
>
>
>Thanks Vance,
>that's shed some light on the subject.
>Alan
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Vance Bradley <Vbra676539 at AOL.com>
>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:42 AM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators
>
>
>
>Alan,
>I've seen the discussion. The smallest sub I know of with a manipulator on board is the Deepworker. No exfra tanks there. Metacentric vs CG works in all directions. Yes, you get movement and no it's not a problem in my experience. I did operate the bigger subs but also smaller ones, to include Aquarius, briefly in a DW, plus three different K-boats, so speak with some experience. You put everything you imagine on a small sub, you get a big sub. In any case, It's probably best to think of a psub as a work in progress. Get the boat done, go play, scratch head, get more work done, go play, scratch head......and so it goes.
>Vance
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jan 24, 2014, at 3:20 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>Vance,
>>a couple of people have mentioned lately the problem of the shifting of
>>balance as you reach out with a manipulator & have talked about countering it with
>>trim tanks. Is it a big deal if you go nose down, tail up? Possibly more of a problem working on a
>>vertical face than picking something up off the bottom.
>>Some of our subs will be a lot smaller than the working subs you were in so the problem would be
>>accentuated in our case.
>>Can you give us some of your experience on this thanks & in your opinion is it worth messing
>>about with the trim while operating the manipulator.
>>Alan
>>
>>
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