[PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass

Alan James via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Tue Dec 9 03:06:38 EST 2014 

Thanks Emile,so if you feed your compass data to your rudder actuator via a processor, you canbe programed to safely return to port if incapacitated. :)Alan
      From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
 Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 8:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope/fluxgate compass
   
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Van:Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: zondag 7 december 201419:32
Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]gyroscope/fluxgate compass    HiEmile, didyou have it displaying on a Raymarine screen? CanI feed this in to a plc & display it on a screen easily? Itis saying...... 
COMPASS
   
|     |     |   SeaTalk1       The Fluxgate Compass transducer is compatible with the ST40 and ST60+ instruments on the SeaTalk1 network. The transducer simply connects to the back of one of the following instruments:     
   - ST40 Compass
   - ST60+ Compass
      |
|       SeaTalkng       The Fluxgate Compass transducer is compatible with the i70 , ST70 and ST70+ instruments on the SeaTalkng network via an iTC-5 transducer converter (sold separately). The transducer is connected to the iTC-5 which converts the transducer signals to SeaTalkng. The iTC-5 is then connected to your SeaTalkng backbone.       Note that if your system contains an SPX autopilot the Fluxgate Compass should connect directly to the course computer and not the iTC-5.   Alan   |

   From: Emile van Essen via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: 'Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, December 8, 20142:19 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]gyroscope/fluxgate compass    I got goodresults with a (raymarine) fluxgate.  The sensor is placed in the allaluminium bow section ( 0,9 Meter away from the hull) and the readout can placedanywhere. It canelectronically compensate 10 or 12 deg deviation caused by the steel.  Thesistership has the sensor in a short mast also with good results.   Attached asketch of the pressuretight sensor housing.   Regards, Emile        Van: Personal_Submersibles[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens " Carsten Standfuß " via Personal_Submersibles
Verzonden: woensdag 3 december2014 20:46
Aan: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion
Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]gyroscope compass   Gyros in aricraft are not north stable - they need amagnetic compass or other device to set course. But they are okay if you set course according to your GPS course before you dive. They canhold the course for some hours with a movment of 2-4 deegre per hour. Okay fora slow and small Psub. They are vaccum driven or electric. Vaccum driven youcan not use in a small submarine. (Or you need a silencer and eardrums as inSpurdog). Electric you can use if it is a 12 or 24 V DC driven one. For othervoltage you need a special power converter. The Ebay units are sometimes cheap- between 100-800 USD - but most of them work not proper. They are buildout of the planes for exact that reason and sold as they are and without anywaranty.. Size is around 100x100x400mm. Volume 4 Liters .. Good solutionif you buy a unit in aircraft condition with papers from a aircarft surplus dealerwith a working garanty. Make sure that they get not wet or 100% humidity. 

Gyros in ships are north stabilzed. The need around 40 Minutes to warm up. Theyare much bigger - the smallest one are around 300 x 400 x 300 mm . Volume at minimum 36 liter . They need nocalibration or reference and they are stable over month/years. Problem is thatthey normal switch on in a ship and never switch off.. If you switch of them -make sure that you not move the sub in the next hours - otherwise they can bedamaged. They are expensive - about 30000 USD new and 3000-9000 USD secondhand.  There life time is limited 30000 -  40000 hours between firstfailtures. 

I have both types in the Euronaut. And a magnetic one also. 
The gyros are both cheap Ebay ones. One from a aircraft one from a ship. 
And both not working anymore. And the third magnetic one has a big errorbecause of the 60 ts steel below. 

I will by next a second hand one north stabilzed ship gyro for around 3000 USDfrom a ship scrap yard electronic dealer with a confirm that they test it andits run stable but without any further waranty. 

A fluxgate its a kind of electronic coils magnetic field compass and will inmost cases not work proper on a strong magnetic metal shell like a submarinewith strong electric motor fields etc. To test on your submarine if these cheapdevices runs on you submarine install a simple magnetic compass temporary onthe sensor spot in mind and than turn the submarine 360 degree. Switch onand off all electric devices. 
Cross check with another compass (or the same  one) far away from the sub.

In most cases an electric 12 or 24 V Dc driven Airplane direction gryro incombination with a gps course before diving will do the job. But in 99% a ebay100 USD item will not work proper. 

vbr Carsten






"hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>schrieb:
> 
> There are all kinds of them on ebay for under 100 dollars, problem is howto make it work. I assume they just have a small motor that spins. There is anice ship gyro sitting at 50 dollars right now but it is about 1 foot dia. That would beawesome in a big sub.
> Hank --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 12/3/14, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gyroscope compass
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Received: Wednesday, December 3, 2014, 1:48 PM
> 
> Absolutely. You can get small ones for civil
> aviation and they are used in subs. One challenge is that
> most airplane ones are powered by a vacuum, but there are
> 12V models. Unfortunately they're expensive, but a great
> solution if you can afford it. 
> Alec 
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28
> PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
> Hi
> all,
> 
> Ever hear of a gyroscopic compass, seems that ships used to
> use them.  It seems they would not be effected by a
> submarine hull.  What am I missing besides they are very
> big.
> 
> Hank
> 
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