[PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
Marc de Piolenc
piolenc at archivale.com
Sat Apr 12 23:06:51 EDT 2014
Thanks - good to know.
Marc
On 4/13/2014 10:55 AM, hank pronk wrote:
> Marc,
> We don't get segregation at all, when pumping it we fill the wall and then let it flow, I call it "ride the wave"
> Also pumping the concrete helps hold the concrete together, it stays in a cylinder shape until it hits the wave. We must use fly ash because the aggregate and sand is washed so well there are no fines left. The jagged sand won't flow through the hose. Fly ash is like little ball bearings and makes it flow through the hose. These are the things that make me think a mold is the way to go. Four inches wall thickness would be a breeze for this mix.
> That makes sense that the rock is a cheap filler. I would still use the pea gravel mix, I have made a test panel and I drove my bob-cat over a 2in thick 4by4 panel with no breakage. I know, very scientific .lol
>
> Hank
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 4/12/14, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> Received: Saturday, April 12, 2014, 10:40 PM
>
> Actually, all else being equal, using
> only fine aggregate (sand) will give a stronger mix. Coarse
> aggregate is needed mainly to make the mix affordable - as
> bulk filler, in other words - and also for decorative effect
> in some applications where the fresh concrete is brushed to
> show off the aggregate.
>
> You have to be careful, in very high-strength applications,
> to make sure that the coarse aggregate is chemically inert
> with respect to the cement matrix. Some siliceous aggregate
> will weaken the concrete in the long term by reacting slowly
> with the matrix long after cure.
>
> Confusingly, very fine silica incorporated in the form of
> fly ash, rice husk ash or silica fume can give a
> super-HIGH-strength mix. The reason for the effect is that
> the very fine silica reacts with the alkali formed DURING
> cure and actually strengthens the cement matrix.
> Unfortunately, much of the fly-ash and volcanic ash cement
> on the market is too coarsely ground to harness this
> effect.
>
> Best,
> Marc de Piolenc
> Ferrocement freak
>
> On 4/13/2014 8:58 AM, hank pronk wrote:
> > Marc,
> > If I am not mistaken, the strongest concrete mix uses
> 3/4in fractured rock with sand, Portland and water. I
> would think a sand mix without rock would not be as
> strong. Also think of the skill you would need to
> trowel a sphere. Anyways it is pretty crazy what Sean
> has shown us with the calculations.
> > Hank
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Sat, 4/12/14, Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> > Received: Saturday, April 12, 2014,
> 5:58 AM
> >
> > I never thought of it quite that way.
> > Sheesh, that makes concrete boat
> > advocacy look almost...well, normal.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > On 4/12/2014 2:21 PM, Alan James
> wrote:
> > > Marc,
> > >>>Right now I feel like I'm
> one of a tiny deviant
> > cult .......
> > > Well you
> are an American of
> > French heritage hiding away on an
> obscure
> > > seldom visited South East Asian
> Island populated by man
> > hungry women
> > > & Moslem rebels.
> > > Alan
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* Marc de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com>
> > > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> > > *Sent:* Saturday, April 12, 2014
> 1:42 PM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
> concrete
> > >
> > > I think I will post those reports
> to Dropbox.
> > >
> > > Right now I feel like I'm one of
> a tiny deviant cult of
> > Portland cement
> > > cultists within the psubs
> community. Maybe the reports
> > will help me
> > > proselytize new adherents...
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > > On 4/12/2014 9:03 AM, hank pronk
> wrote:
> > > > Marc,
> > > > Not only is it dirt
> cheap, concrete is so
> > easy to form. The material
> > > cost for a 6 foot sphere is in
> the hundreds, not
> > thousands. Hank
> > > >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > > > On Fri, 4/11/14, Marc
> de Piolenc <piolenc at archivale.com
> > > <mailto:piolenc at archivale.com>>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re:
> [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
> > > > To: "Personal
> Submersibles General
> > Discussion"
> > > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> > <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> > > > Received:
> Friday, April 11, 2014, 8:26
> > PM
> > > >
> > > > I don't have
> hard numbers, but
> > > > remember that
> resistance to mostly
> > > > compressive
> loading is a structural
> > STABILITY problem. Most
> > > > practical
> > > > steel structures
> buckle under
> > compression long before
> > > > reaching their
> > > > actual
> compression limit. Concrete has
> > an advantage there
> > > > due to its
> > > > stiffness - the
> NCEL tests suggest
> > that it comes much closer
> > > > to using
> > > > its full
> compressive strength.
> > > >
> > > > That said, my
> primary interest in
> > concrete is due to its
> > > > cost and ease
> > > > of maintenance.
> > > >
> > > > Marc
> > > >
> > > > PS. If anybody
> is interested, I will
> > add the relevant
> > > > reports that I
> > > > have to my
> public Dropbox folder and
> > post the link.
> > > >
> > > > On 4/12/2014
> 3:15 AM, hank pronk
> > wrote:
> > > > > A six foot
> od sphere built in
> > 1.25in thick steel would
> > > > be equal in
> weight to 4in thick
> > concrete. I would not
> > > > ever expect 4in
> concrete to compare to
> > 1.25 steel.
> > > > But, it would be
> interesting to know
> > where the concrete
> > > > stands in
> comparison.
> > > > > Hank
> > > > >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > > > > On Fri,
> 4/11/14, Marc de Piolenc
> > <piolenc at archivale.com
> > > <mailto:piolenc at archivale.com>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> Subject: Re:
> > [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete
> > > > > To:
> "Personal Submersibles
> > General
> > > > Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> > > <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> > > > >
> Received: Friday, April 11,
> > 2014, 9:59
> > > > AM
> > > > >
> > > > > A
> huge amount of work was
> > done on
> > > > >
> concrete for
> > pressure-resisting
> > > > structures,
> including long
> > > > > term,
> deep exposure tests,
> > by the US
> > > > Naval Civil
> Engineering
> > > > >
> Laboratory. Most of the
> > reports are
> > > > available for
> > > > >
> downloading free of charge
> > from DTIC.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> Excellent results were
> > achieved with
> > > > concrete having
> NO
> > > > >
> reinforcement. There has
> > been limited
> > > > work done with
> > > > >
> prestressed concrete and
> > even less
> > > > done with
> reinforced
> > > > >
> concrete and ferrocement,
> > which can
> > > > reasonably be
> expected
> > > > > to
> give much more efficient
> > and
> > > >
> distortion-tolerant
> > > > >
> structures.
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc
> > > > >
> > > > > On
> 4/11/2014 8:25 PM, hank
> > pronk
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> A cheap alternative to
> > a super
> > > > strong sphere
> hull is
> > > > >
> re-enforced concrete. I
> > feel like
> > > > hiding under a
> blanket
> > > > > while
> I say this,lol.
> > I know it
> > > > is way out
> there, but
> > > > >
> concrete is super strong
> > under
> > > >
> compression. It is not
> > > > > so
> good for impact
> > resistance.
> > > > Concrete is a
> very easy
> > > > >
> material to work with and
> > form into a
> > > > sphere
> shape. I
> > > > > have
> no idea what thickness
> > would be
> > > > needed.
> Properly
> > > > >
> engineered I would trust
> > it.
> > > > > >
> Hank
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
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> > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > > > >
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