[PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings

Tue Oct 15 13:12:00 EDT 2013

Hi Hank,
I don't have any changes to my general design, but there are some major 
Changes to how I go about fabricating the hull. I just need to do a lot of research
on it. I have a lot more information to work with for all the finer points.
As for Joe's "free spirit" comment. It's no wife & kids left home. And to tell you the
truth I'm in no hurry to get in to a relationship before my next subs finished.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 14/10/2013, at 12:13 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Alan,
> What are your sub plans now.  I am sure you have lots of ideas after your big tour.
> Hank
> 
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 3:57:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings
> 
> Alan,
> The new shaft would have a shoulder for both directions.  Gamma has a water lubricated bearing that would also be a thrust bearing.  Very simple.  I am not planning at this time to experiment because I don't need it.  I was thinking about doing though just for fun.
> Hank
> 
> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 3:31:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings
> 
> Hi Hank,
> I'm still not convinced. You would also have to have some sort of bearing for reverse.
> Are you talking about a washer as your main thrust bearing? I know the Minnkotas don't have more than a washer as a thrust bearing for reverse.
> Are the original bearings that you are talking about using OK for sea water? 
> Technadyne talks about using a water lubricated bearing on their thrusters.
> Obviously it works for them & their units are used on some expensive subs & ROVs, but
> they have modified the technology for their application & the price tag for a thruster is huge.
> Look forward to your experimentation in this field.
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 14/10/2013, at 9:49 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Alan,
>> The impeller that is submerged in water is fixed to a shaft that is supported by a bearing on each side.  I would use the original  bearings and put a thrust washer of appropriate material on the shaft shoulder.  One could simply remove the impeller and drill through the pump housing right through the bearing.  Then  replace the original shaft with a longer shaft machined with a shoulders.  The protruding shaft can be machined to accommodate the appropriate propeller.  Or you could machine a nice nose cone to replace the outer pump body and use the original bearing. 
>>  
>> Hank
>> 
>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:18:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings
>> 
>> Thanks Hank,
>> I only looked at these couplings yesterday, but it seemed that the bearings would be exposed
>> to water. I could be wrong.
>> On the Technadyne site it mentions that the magnetic coupling assembly dismantles easily
>> to change the bearings, so I'm wondering if these are a weak point in the system.
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 14/10/2013, at 1:21 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> Alan,
>>> If you look on ebay  under water pump magnetic coupled ,  you will see several examples even some 24v pumps. 
>>> Your right, nice thrusters! and the price is not bad.
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 1:29:15 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings
>>> 
>>> This Indonesian site looks interesting. For example,
>>> 500 watt DC brushless thruster with magnetic coupling for $2500. 
>>> Love these sites that have prices listed.
>>> http://robomarine.com/thrusters.html
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On 13/10/2013, at 8:19 PM, "Hugh Fulton" <hc.fulton at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi All, 
>>>> Does anyone know where to get a magnetic coupling similar to the ones being used by Tecnadyne.
>>>> Regards,  Hugh
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan
>>>> Sent: Monday, 14 October 2013 4:25 p.m.
>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings
>>>>  
>>>> Hi Hank,
>>>> With regard to the off the shelf, water pump, magnetic coupler.
>>>> I wonder if the thrust bearings would be a problem in our application.
>>>> On a water pump you would have maybe a belt driven pulley on the shaft 
>>>> of the coupler & no need for thrust bearings. Whereas in our application with the propeller
>>>> exerting force down the shaft they are needed, & if used would be exposed to fresh or sea water unless you used some sort of seal. And sealing it would defeat the purpose for it's application in the first place, wouldn't it?
>>>> Alan
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> Defeats
>>>> On 12/10/2013, at 4:37 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>> Joe,
>>>> I am a lover of hydraulic anything.  I am sure you can go hyd all around with no trouble.  Problem is efficiency, they will rob 25%.  If you want range, then its no good.  If you launch from a ship and look around then it would not matter maybe.  With seals the way they are now and magnetic couplers, electric still wins.
>>>> I was looking on e bay and there is a magnetic coupler for a water pump that could be modified for our purposes.  I like the idea but I have no real need to improve a sub that is perfect :-)   Also my budget is hurtin bad.
>>>> Hank
>>>>  
>>>> From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: Psubbers Mailist <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 6:17:20 PM
>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thrusters, Air & Diesel Musings
>>>>  
>>>> Some quick questions / observations / musing come to mind as I sit here editing videos.
>>>>  
>>>> It looks to me like Alvin's thrusters all have a 90 deg drive arrangement like yacht bow thrusters. Some of these off the shelf units are hydraulic, but way over powered for a Delta / Gamma sized sub. There are however, lots of little hydraulic motors out there, a slew of them. Ive also seen drive components, reductions, etc, that simply were not available to George. How much trouble would it be to go hydraulic all around?
>>>>  
>>>> If DC motors must be used, in my view then the single must have improvement to the T-Rex design is the addition of a mag coupling.
>>>>  
>>>> Alecs experience has me rethinking self sufficiency. It would be nice to charge the batteries and the HP tanks independent of a surface boat, eliminating the need to raft alongside in swells. All this convenience means a "Tours 66" type of arrangement. But Tours 66 weighed in at 10 tons.
>>>>  
>>>> Everything is now downsized like that little AC unit I posted,.. take a look at this marine gen-set (note dimensions)  http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Info/Support/3-5Specs.pdf 
>>>> Hmm, could this not be enclosed in the hull during a build, or otherwise slung longways down the hatch into a 42" hull? No prop shaft and seals, (you still get towed) but independent re-charge capability for both batteries and HP air with an equally downsized compressor!?!
>>>>  
>>>> So the question of the day is,...
>>>>  
>>>> Is a comfy air conditioned & self sufficient research capable PSUB for sport diving in Florida / Caribbean waters, a realistic goal at around 3.5 tons and $8-$10 lb?
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
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