[PSUBS-MAILIST] T-Rex Thrusters & Cooling
vbra676539 at aol.com
vbra676539 at aol.com
Thu Oct 10 16:38:40 EDT 2013
Got one in the shed. It ain't bad, all things considered. Especially the paid for part.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Thu, Oct 10, 2013 11:12 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T-Rex Thrusters & Cooling
That's the beauty of home building for the hobbiest, aviation or marine.
That 3hp T-Rex can (as ugly as it is), starts looking quite sexy after a closer look!
Joe
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From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>;
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T-Rex Thrusters & Cooling
Sent: Thu, Oct 10, 2013 5:57:59 PM
Wow. Gotta love commercial submarine parts prices. Now, if it made margaritas while pushing the sub, it would be worth it! Haha
Thanks,
Scott Waters
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Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
Scott,
Like Vance says north of 10k.
Quite frankly I'm more concerned about the price and availability of appropriately sized mag couplers in small lots.
Joe
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From: swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>;
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T-Rex Thrusters & Cooling
Sent: Thu, Oct 10, 2013 4:52:49 PM
Joe,
How much does one of those tecnadyne motors cost?
Thanks,
Scott Waters
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Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
Vance,
I recognized immediately that very "off-the-shelf" utility. Still, it's an area of unfamiliarity so that's why the wary eye on seemingly innocuous details like that air gap. With that in mind and an interest in exploiting advantages of any potential modern improvements, the question then becomes,..What are the big dogs doing to get into those tall weeds?
http://www.tecnadyne.com/cms/index.php/products/products-overview/thruster
In looking at the tech specs for this product line the first question to come to my mind is why the stupendous range of voltages? (up to 330 vdc).
The next several observations of interest then being:
The use of high rpm low inertia motors coupled to high ratio planetary reduction drives
The use of 6061 T6 AL housings
The exclusive use of magnetic couplings
The option to oil compensate the same dry units used in shallower depths
The use of beautifully designed and fabricated Kort nozzles
So in my letter to Santa for the stocking stuffer, ...this one @ 48 vdc,....
http://www.tecnadyne.com/cms/images/products/pdf/Model%202020%20Brochure.pdf
The question then becomes, what can a home builder using off the shelf components and T-Rex fabrication techniques realistically hope to take from the big dogs?
Joe
Thanks for the detailed response which I've saved accordingly.
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From: vbra676539 at aol.com <vbra676539 at aol.com>;
To: <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T-Rex Thrusters & Cooling
Sent: Thu, Oct 10, 2013 12:26:55 PM
Joe,
We once machined a 3/4 hp 120 volt thruster motor and a piece of steel pipe to matching OD and ID. The idea was to make the unit smaller and perhaps help it run cooler. It ran hotter! The loss of air circulation in there was apparently more important than what would appear to be an improved heat sink. When I say hotter, I mean hotter than you could touch (even in the water). Hot enough, we decided, to fry the motor under heavy usage, which meant that it didn't work at all as far as we were concerned.
The JSLs were the best example of on/off thrusters (no motor controls, only relays) I can think of, as they were used for main propulsion as well as for maneuvering. 1 1/4 hp/28 volt. The shaft end base plate of the motor was replaced with a machined aluminum section that serves as the bearing case on the motor side and as the housing for the planetary reduction gear on the prop side, and also as the mid-body of the thruster. The units are all aluminum (5000 series?). The motors fit fairly close in there, but with a distinctive air space. All the pieces were o-ring sealed (no welding) and held together with spring loaded flip clamps.
>From front to back you get the forward end plate with bulkhead connector, the motor sleeve, then the gear case, followed by the sand cast back bullet that contains a flex-shaft coupling, bearings, and the shaft seal, then the prop and nozzle. The props were/are 14/14 inch square tipped four blades running in a machined syntactic foam nozzle and maybe, I say again, maybe, put out a hundred pounds of thrust. Not small, and probably not very efficient by modern standards, but they were to all intents and purposes bulletproof, save the occasional shaft seal failure.
Cooling was never a problem with these things. They were designed and built in-house, and we carried a spare or two offshore. Each sub had eight of them (4 horizontal aft, 2 lateral fore and aft, and 2 vertical fore and aft). Not lightweight, but serviceable and (certainly by modern standards) cheap.
George and I talked a good bit about the thrusters we used offshore and the ones he built. His were built from available stock material and, except for the custom order extended shafts, were off-the-shelf. In his view, they worked fine. He didn't care for trolling motors. Not enough torque. Something that Alex proved once again in the Keys by choking one down with a piece of soft coral. Something to keep in mind.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com>
To: Psubbers Mailist <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Wed, Oct 9, 2013 5:49 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] T-Rex Thrusters & Cooling
I am trying to understand George's design intent reference his 1 ATM SCH40 pipe housings and cooling.
Where #8 SCH40 O.D. being 8.625" and your typical 2-3 HP DC enclosed fan cooled motor being roughly 6", was it his intent to have this airspace between the motor and inner wall for air circulation, or is this space simply incidental?
I am wondering if these housings can be slimmed down to a more snug or custom fit with a reliance on conduction for cooling? Perhaps even filling the 1 ATM housing with non-compensated oil for the sole purpose of efficient conduction?
I am also noting that the bow thruster industry likes to get the motor out of the props way with a 90 degree drive arrangement. This has interesting implications for potentially more efficient and downsized lateral thrusters.
Some musings.
Joe
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