[PSUBS-MAILIST] Speaking of MBT valve

Jon Wallace jonw at psubs.org
Sat Nov 23 19:31:23 EST 2013


A 600psi valve should be fine on the 350 as long as you keep any static 
pressure for the fill side a safety margin below, perhaps no higher than 
350psi.  A first stage on your hp tank indicates a flowing pressure of 
150psi or there abouts (the first stage standard).  The bigger issue you 
have to deal with using a typical first stage is that the air pressure 
is close to equalizing the pressure at 337 feet.  If you push the vessel 
to it's limit you could end up in a situation whereby you can't blow 
ballast because the outside pressure equals or is greater to that being 
put out by the first stage.


On 11/23/2013 2:46 PM, Pete Niedermayr wrote:
> I found these 3 way valves that have an off position. I want to go with the Vent/Off/Fill idea I mentions a few months back. I'll have a 1st stage reg on my HP tanks. the valves are rated 600 psi WOG is that high enough ? The K350 spec'ed one are 1000 psi. Any thoughts ?
>
>
> On Sat, 11/23/13, Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MBT valve
>   To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>   Date: Saturday, November 23, 2013, 9:48 AM
>   
>   One more thing... I'm not
>   sure how easy it would be to get a really accurate seal if
>   you make the body from PVC. I always find plastics
>   challenging when it comes to machining tolerances. For
>   surfacing the sub a tiny valve leak is no problem, in fact
>   you wouldn't even notice it. But a tiny leak is a
>   nuisance, because the sub will have a tendency to dive
>   herself in slow motion when you leave her at the dock for a
>   few hours, when she's under tow, etc.
>   
>   :)
>   Alec
>   
>   On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at
>   12:35 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
>   wrote:
>   
>   
>   Jon,I have to agree with
>   Alec.  I would not use an electric motor.  If it has to be
>   electric, I would also go with solenoid valves.   I have
>   personally used solenoid valves on my salvage rov  and in
>   about a million dives we never had a single issue except for
>   freezing when the rov surfaced in the winter.   Electric
>   solenoids are also safe in your case because you have
>   multiple mbt's and you should wire them separately.
>   
>   Hank
>    
>    
>       On Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:10:28 AM,
>   Alec Smyth <alecsmyth at gmail.com>
>   wrote:
>   
>       Hi
>   Jon,
>   Personally if I used a
>   remotely operated valve I'd be much more comfortable
>   with actuating it pneumatically than electrically, for
>   reliability. This is after all the MBT valve, arguably the
>   one thing on the sub that has to be the most reliable of
>   all. If for some reason it just had to be electric, then
>   I'd suggest using an electromagnet instead of a motor.
>   The magnet would act against a spring so that the valve was
>   of the normally closed type, and you could still surface if
>   the electrons got wet.
>   
>   
>   What I don't like about
>   the K valves is the way George mounted them. But I'm a
>   fan of the approach if you add a proper through-hull for the
>   shaft, sealed with O rings instead of RTV like the original.
>   If using a large bore valve, I'd add one more detail,
>   which is to put round handles on them instead of straight
>   ones. That's so that someone getting in or out of the
>   sub won't dive it by snagging their clothes on the
>   handles.
>   
>   
>   
>   Best,
>   Alec
>   
>   On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Jon
>   Wallace <jonw at psubs.org> wrote:
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   Looking for feedback on this MBT poppet design (see
>   attachment).  It is very similar to the poppet Vance showed
>   us in Islamorada but driven by an independent electric motor
>   rather than pneumatic.  My goal is to move to an electric
>   or pneumatic replacement for the Kittredge MBT ball valve
>   thru-hull design for various reasons. First, I don't
>   like the valve handles sticking in through the conning
>   tower; second, I am adding saddle tanks for additional
>   buoyancy which would mean adding at least one more valve;
>   third, my saddle tanks are going to be big and I want a
>   large diameter valve to provide quick venting.
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   Illustration.
>   
>   The valve is made out of PVC plumbing material available at
>   any good hardware store.  The square main body is a 4-inch
>   PVC coupling.  A series of 1-inch holes drilled into the
>   end allow venting when the "plunger" is retracted
>   back to the motor side.  The "stop" on the closed
>   side would have a gasket to provide an air-tight seal.
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   The motor is a cheap electric screwdriver motor such as
>   Black & Decker AS6NG.  It has plenty of torque,
>   reversible, and is low power (2-3vdc).  When the body is
>   removed the "guts" fit nicely into 1.5 inch PVC
>   piping.  The rotating socket tip will be waterproofed using
>   a home-made "Blue-Globe" type attachment.  Oil
>   compensation will ensure the housing doesn't fracture at
>   depth although theoretically 1.5 inch PVC is pressure safe
>   to well beyond the depths I will be diving.
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   The piston will be 1/4 inch thick (6mm) and can be aluminum
>   or even 1/4 to 3/8 acrylic.  It is attached to the coupling
>   nut by a 1/4-20 threaded rod.  The coupling nut is
>   permanently attached to the rotating socket tip of the
>   screwdriver by either epoxy or light welding.  As the motor
>   and coupling nut turns, the threaded rod is drawn into the
>   coupling nut pulling the piston toward the motor and
>   allowing the MBT to vent.  Reverse the motor and the piston
>   is forced back down to the closed position and seals the
>   MBT.
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   I have already prototyped the motor and it's PVC housing
>   and they fit together very well.  Cost of battery operated
>   screwdriver is about $10-20 (US).  PVC of course, is cheap.
>    I am looking at 4-inch material but this design could be
>   easily scaled.
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   I see lots of pros; looking for cons and potential issues
>   with the design before I fully prototype it.  Any of you
>   CAD'rs interested in creating a nice 3-D drawing for
>   me?
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   Jon
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
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