[PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

Sat Dec 7 11:03:50 EST 2013

Jim,
It is sufficient to the task and easily replaceable. Also cheaper and a whole lot lighter. You can keep a roll on the shelf and reuse the fittings, which isn't possible with normal hoses, each of which is essentially custom built. You need a three foot hose? Just nip it off the reel, slide on the fittings, graunch her down with your trusty 9/16" wrench, and you're done. Simple. This stuff came out and got really popular with the ROV folks for the weight savings, if nothing else. I expect a steel armored HP hydraulic line weighs something like a bunch more than a plastic line. A dozen of those on each manipulator adds up fast, especially when you are dealing with a lightweight system where payload is critical. Any pounds (even ounces) you can cut will make a difference. Besides, they are simpler to use in the field, where actual hydraulics people and the equipment required for repair and/or fabrication are thin on the ground. Side note: Jim Cameron's run to the Challenger Deep was cut short by a failure in the hydraulics. Something leaked, and those lines looked like the plastic stuff to me. Maybe a fitting failure? Us psubbers can take a lesson from that. Keep it under twenty thousand psi, boys!!!
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: jimtoddpsub <jimtoddpsub at aol.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2013 9:43 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

Vance,
Is that type of tubing used because it has greater flexibility, saltwater resistance, or other characteristics?
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: vbra676539 <vbra676539 at aol.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2013 8:10 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

That's what I thought. I was puzzled about the question originally, as most manips out there with external solenoids use that kind of tubing. And you found it. Problem solved. Good deal.
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2013 9:04 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

Vance,
Yes the nylon tubing connects to a Swagelok compression tube fitting.
Hank

  On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:53:07 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi guys,
Once I figured out what I have it was not a biggy.  The hyd lines are nylon high pressure air lines with two part ss compression fittings.  It is a relief, I do not want to waste the parts I have made.
Hank

  On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:06:44 PM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:

Hank,
Swagelok fittings?
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: brian <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2013 9:32 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

Can't you just have some made up custom to the size you need?

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Sent 12/6/2013 4:24:10 PM
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

Hi Jim,
I have not checked them out.  The trick is this stuff is plastic unreinforced tubing.  It is not hydraulic hose in the traditional sense.  I have a feeling it is actually high pressure air line.  It is measured by the od because it uses compression fittings.  interestingly it has 1/4 inch two part compression fittings from solid tubing.
Hank

  On Friday,December 6, 2013 4:59:39 PM, "jimtoddpsub at aol.com" <jimtoddpsub at aol.com> wrote:

Hank,
Have you tried Bartec? www.bartecassociates.com
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2013 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

Hi Alan,
I checked ebay, there is only low pressure air tubing for air brakes.  I called Parker and was directed to a distributor, but the distributor no longer carries what I need.  
Hank

  On Friday, December 6, 2013 2:53:57 PM, Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Also Hank there are afew items on EBay that may be suitable
If you haven't already looked there.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-Hose-Assembly-451tc-4-27-5-feet-with-1-4-female-fittings-Hydraulic-Hose-/251374227227
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 7/12/2013, at 8:42 AM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

HELP,
Went to my hydraulic supplier this morning and was told I will not find replacement lines for the arm on Gamma.  I spent a week making a sheer and release mechanism  that depends on these lines.  I need to find 1/4in OD  plastic tubing for 1,000 psi operating.  Any leads would really help.
Hank 

  On Friday, December 6, 2013 12:28:25 PM, Douglas Suhr<spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Hank, just curious. I can't wait to see your photos after assembly. ~ Douglas S. 

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:34 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Douglas,
I bought a 3hp 36v motor, I  will run it at 24v giving me 2hp.  
Hank

  On Thursday, December 5, 2013 7:53:19 PM, Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:

Hank, what are the specs on your new motor? 

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 8:23 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

Brian,
I will be finished the assembly in a few days. I will post a picture when it is all together. I need the new motor before I can complete it.  
Hank

  On Thursday, December 5, 2013 6:17:06 PM, brian <brian at ojaivalleybeefarm.com> wrote:

It would be nice to see a schematic of this assemblyor a picture since I'm not really grasping what is going on with the seal and bearing assembly.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: "hank pronk" <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
Sent 12/5/2013 11:12:31 AM
To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

Vance,
Funny you mention the inner tube.  I did just that as an experiment on my red sphere sub.  I even painted the inner tube white so it would blend in better.  
I took a big leap of faith this morning, I just finished machining the prop shaft bushing housing.  The housing has a bearing and seals now.  I drilled in two ports (1/8 pipe) to fill and drain the oil.  I like it much better and I have to drain the oil regularly in the second shaft housing anyways.  
I also decided to buy a new motor instead of using the original.  I am driving to the USA tomorrow to pick it up.  That was my Christmas present. :-)    I am very easy to shop for:-)
Hank 

  On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:47:14 AM, "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com> wrote:

Which suggests a big inner tube if you want to convert a DW2000 to that definition. Otherwise, keep the door shut, or prepare to swim.
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nuytten <phil at philnuytten.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Thu, Dec 5, 2013 11:11 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability & Buoyancy

The minimum hatch to waterline measure applies to those submersibles‘intended to be entered while afloat’ - 
Phil

From: Jon Wallace 
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 7:33 AM
To: Personal Submersibles GeneralDiscussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] G.L. Summary Stability &Buoyancy

I think the first sentence is key, "Submersibleswill be assigned Class only after it has been demonstrated that their buoyancyand their static and dynamic stability in in tact condition is adequate FOR THESERVICE INTENDED".  Some of the lack of specificity is because they can'tconceive of every possible application.  They do however have quite a fewspecifics as you outlined.  Some of the testing won't apply (ie fuel load)and it's possible that a narrow scope of service might lower number of testsrequired.

On 12/5/2013 4:08 AM, Alan James wrote:

I'm afraid there isnothing simple in this section. It is lacking in a lot of specifics.
There are statementssuch as "shall generally meet the standard defined
in the followingunless special operational restrictions reflected in the class
notification allow alower level. & ...Depending on the type of submersible & the 
operation area, thedistance between the waterline in fully surfaced condition
and the upper edge ofentrance openings, air pipes,etc. which may be open
for surfacedoperation, has to be approved by G.L.
   ABS hasa minimum distance from the waterline to the hatch opening of 30"
whereas G.L. states;For surfaced; aminimum distance betweenmetacentric height & center of gravity of 10cm. (4")And for submerged, aminimum distance between center of buoyancy & centerof gravity of 5cm (2")(same as ABS). At no stage will G be above B. (including after dropping thedrop weight)
Inthe initial paper work sent before construction, a detailed analyses ofstability is to
beincluded.  Thistakes the form of analyzing the heeling levers of 10 different load cases infresh & salt water, 6 on the surface & 4submerged & at 6 different heeling
angles. So looks like120 calculations. Heeling forces fromfree liquid surfaces, turning circles, wind, ice loads, transferenceofequipment & personal & payloads from working devices have to beconsidered.
There needs to besufficient ballast to keep a minimum of 10% of the pressure
hull out of the water.The draught line has to be marked on the hull. 
When one major ballasttank is damaged the hatch has to be able to open without
water coming in &the heeling angle shouldn't exceed 22,5 degrees.
There is an operationalin water test at the end of construction with evaluation
of the center ofgravity upon which the pre build calculations were based.
Alan

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